oh yeah, Seppel's post reminds me about Rhand's question about why I'm suggesting that killjoy put too much thought into scum usage of his ability
Killjoy says:
>How do you think hiding Vitality scores helps scum? It doesn't. That's my thinking.
>I was going to use it on town to keep that info out of scum eyes.
Seppel's summary of this is:
>You want to attack people you think are town so you can hide their vitality
Leaving out the loaded language of "attack," I think we get the idea.
My problem with this logic is that I have no idea what Vitality does or how it is used. My own ability means I get to cheat actually, which you'll all see soon enough (I can only hand you guys so many loaves of bread here; I am not Jesus). However, Killjoy seems to be suggesting that hiding vitality totals is a boon for town. How does he know this? What insight into the scum team's abilities does he have that he could make this statement? I'm not a fan of his suggestion that a townie "would be truthful anyway" or whatever he said. That strikes me like attacking the problem from the wrong angle. Cart before horse and whatnot.
Anyway, that's my thinking.
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Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
The post I said that to is only damning if KillJoy flips scum.
I think it's completely null if KillJoy is town. The post has no scum motivation with a town wagon.
If the only thing you were referring to was that one post (I have other reasons I'd like to lynch him), then why would you ask if it's too late to switch to him Today if the reason for saying that was contingent on the flip of Killjoy?
However, Killjoy seems to be suggesting that hiding vitality totals is a boon for town. How does he know this? What insight into the scum team's abilities does he have that he could make this statement?
This is a good point. If the only thing that KJ knows is the role he claimed, there's something off about making the assumption that hiding one's vitality is a benefit worth progressive vitality loss.
I agree that the Ghostlands logic seems bad. You're asking that players who are killed stay on top of a very active game despite not being able to actively participate in it, in hopes of being able to share their reads as confirmed town if and when we travel to the Ghostlands. Like yes, that would definitely be the optimal play, but we're having enough trouble keeping people engaged with the game when they're alive.
People who will definitely contribute from beyond the grave:
Also Arian's logic is fine. D1 is the least important lynch to get right. I'd be happier if he SUPPORTED A LYNCH AND INTERACTED WITH PEOPLE JESUS CHRIST but being apathetic about getting the D1 lynch right isn't scummy.
I would as well, and I believe Sir Chris would. However, I can think of at least as many people who probably wouldn't provide anything helpful from beyond the grave, and I'm pretty sure that includes both of our prime lynch candidates today. But that could just be because they're scum.
Since then, I also really don't like Iso's #1249 which starts with the "if you really are town" language which introduces the idea that he might be while still discrediting his post, just calling it awful - and I don't agree. Iso has also tried to say he's fishing, which I thought was a stretch, and now is on him for claim stalling in a game where roles are randomly assigned so it's not like the information of his claim would save him. It feels to me like he's throwing spaghetti at the wall now hoping it'll tip the scales and push the KJ lynch through, and the reasoning is very surface level. "Hey, he's fishing" "Hey, he's claim stalling"
So I'm scum for calling out Killjoy for incessantly doing scummy *****?
Seems legit.
The "if you really are town" thing is because I'll be angry if Killjoy is town and playing like this, because he's being a huge distraction and I could be looking elsewhere if that were the case - but I won't know that until he flips. And I think that I'm on the money, so bite me.
I need you to be more specific about what you didn't like.
That requires effort.
When pretty much everything Killjoy has done makes me want to lynch the guy and I have dissected his posts time after time, I'm done hammering my points home. I really don't want to have to keep doing such when he's this close to being lynched. Let's just end the Day, already.
>Meg: Why do we need to change the claim range because of the nature of the roles?
Because roles aren't necessarily tied to alignment, so a claim doesn't really help us determine whether or not to lynch somebody (at least on D1). Iso has presented a very good argument against this approach though.
Hmmm... ok. I disagree that roles are not tied to alignment in this game, actually. I think it'll be less obvious in some cases, but there should be some connection.
- Randomized scumteam. Almost all roles have been designed to be able to play as either alignment. After all players have been randomly assigned a role, a mafia will be randomly selected from among them.
IIRC, in Seasons there were only two things that couldn't be scum: both Masons together (because they also had some stupid powerful abilities like dayvigging every other day), and the SK.
But yeah, KJ, get your claim on. At this point, it's that or you can tell us all about it in Ghostlands.
Pretty much all of this. I imagine Yblisa and Voes(, was it?) are the two roles that definitely can't be town, and there may be some town shenanigans in the mix, as well.
Thank you for your helpfulness. I figured it would be in the lore.
Anyway, I am Demernae’s Suspicion. I'm Town. I have one active ability, and one passive one.
Active: I can target a player at night and they lose Vitality for a few nights. The number of Vitality they lose is equal to 3 minus the number of times I've used this ability.
Passive: Whenever I target a player, that player's Vitality can no longer be seen publicly while I'm alive.
I don't see Killjoy using this ability helpfully at all and I see no reason to keep it around.
I wasn't planning on using it on scummy people. I was going to use it on town to keep that info out of scum eyes. If they're town, we can trust them to be honest about their Vitality scores anyway.
Also, I think someone else articulated this before, but the KJ wagon sprung up very quickly and very quietly. Iso has been vocal about it for a while, but that's pretty much it. Very few of the other players voting KJ have actually directly engaged him or said much about him at all.
The same could be said for all wagons. Are you being serious? I've been LOUD and I've talked directly to KingJames... I mean KillJoy. Iso doesn't get all the credit.
Also I think Iso's reason for voting Killjoy is crap, but I won't turn down his vote. If he's scum, he's invested far too much in bussing.
I've got 99 problems and his behavior is all of them.
@Killjoy: Megs says he's the best target. You're scumreading him, bug you don't want to attack him. You want to attack people you think are town so you can hide their vitality... and you think you're trying to act town with this plan.
I really don't know what to say. This sounds so absurd.
Did you miss the part where I said I couldn't see a scum!Killjoy thinking his ability couldn't be scum and trying to play that up?
Asian got a bit of a reprieve with the focus on the KJ wagon, and he used it to basically disappear. I'm not liking that too much, so my vote's going back there.
...because if you were scum, you wouldn't think of a townie spin to put on your ability when you were going to claim?
@Killjoy: Megs says he's the best target. You're scumreading him, bug you don't want to attack him. You want to attack people you think are town so you can hide their vitality... and you think you're trying to act town with this plan.
I really don't know what to say. This sounds so absurd.
Can you please confirm that the above is true? Or if you want to change your claim at all?
That's a very slanted interpretation of my claim.
1. I don't trust Meg. Doesn't matter if he says he's the best target. I don't trust him.
2. Given my scum read of him, I want to keep his vitality public. He would be my target if that wasn't my other ability.
3.I'm not trying to act town. That's my ability. That's how I interpreted it.
Your ability could kill him in what, 3 days? I don't see why you wouldn't want a slowvig on a scum.
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2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
The reason I ask about Killjoy's posts is because I asked him to make that post (aka stop catching up and start playing the game), and I wanted to know if you have a problem with that or if you have a problem with what he said.
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Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
Does it prove that you're town or does it prove that you're claiming correctly?
Also yes we've moved to Ruchperion.
Also I was doing votecounts because Zindabad's votecounts are absolutely frustrating. They don't list who isn't voting and they come with absurd infrequency. And that's probably helping this day go so slowly: nobody knows who's voting who and nobody knows who isn't voting.
My personal analysis of my abilities would be to say both. I can't see scum having one of my abilities at all, but that's ultimately up to everyone else to decide. But it will be obvious who I've used my ability on.
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Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
The reason I ask about Killjoy's posts is because I asked him to make that post (aka stop catching up and start playing the game), and I wanted to know if you have a problem with that or if you have a problem with what he said.
No, I don't care about what you asked him to do. I care that his content in doing such was abysmal.
Does it prove that you're town or does it prove that you're claiming correctly?
Also yes we've moved to Ruchperion.
Also I was doing votecounts because Zindabad's votecounts are absolutely frustrating. They don't list who isn't voting and they come with absurd infrequency. And that's probably helping this day go so slowly: nobody knows who's voting who and nobody knows who isn't voting.
My personal analysis of my abilities would be to say both. I can't see scum having one of my abilities at all, but that's ultimately up to everyone else to decide. But it will be obvious who I've used my ability on.
Somehow glazed over this. Yeah, and I don't like the "appeal to everyone" in this, either.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
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2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
One of the annoying things here is much about the claim depends on knowing Killjoy. I have no real prior experience with him so I don't know if he is more earnest about his claims or if he does like to play things up as scum. Hm.
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One of the annoying things here is much about the claim depends on knowing Killjoy. I have no real prior experience with him so I don't know if he is more earnest about his claims or if he does like to play things up as scum. Hm.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
i literally don't understand why. Please explain or show me where you already explained.
The wagon is being pushed by a flock of scumreads. And I never saw anything that is damning enough to call KillJoy scum. He's playing like I'm used to from him.
I mean does he have the guile to go "this is such a town role" when it is obviously not really at all.
Also Iso note where my vote is lol.
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KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
DCIII with a vague, but ultimately sound vote on me. I mean voting me for things I've said is pretty fair.
Early town read further decreasing.
I see you missed the humor there. Let me help: what else would someone vote me for other than the things I've posted? Think about it.
Anyway been busy, just caught that. Let me go back to reading from where I left off.
I don't like Sir Chris attempting to play this off as sarcasm. Mainly because I don't remember a single hint before from him that it was supposed to be a sarcastic response. In fact, I seem to recall him implying it was a serious response at one point.
DC: You said I didn't quantify what about the position was suspicious. But directly before that, I said that it was because of the risk of outing abilities. I think I made that point earlier, but why not ask if you think I wasn't clear enough? The fact that you say I basically had no reason for the suspicion is suspicious.
...yeah, no.
What I'm understanding from this, and from your 'scum suspect list' is that you're apparently saying that suggesting Alway Eteem first thing in the game is suspicious because it's fishing. Except, you know, where it's the exact opposite of fishing. And where someone would have had to suggest somewhere at some point, because we sure as heck couldn't stay on the First Halls.
No, your stated reasoning for giving that list is nonsensical, and the sheer number of 'no reason given' (so what does that actually tell us?) on that list really makes one wonder why you bothered posting that list in the first place. And there's a very simple scum reason to do so.
One of the annoying things here is much about the claim depends on knowing Killjoy. I have no real prior experience with him so I don't know if he is more earnest about his claims or if he does like to play things up as scum. Hm.
I don't like how non-committal this is, at this point in the day.
i literally don't understand why. Please explain or show me where you already explained.
The wagon is being pushed by a flock of scumreads. And I never saw anything that is damning enough to call KillJoy scum. He's playing like I'm used to from him.
Question 1. Who are these 'scumreads'? Please list them.
Question 2. Riddle me this. How in the world are you reading a town mindset into Killjoy's claim and the choices he was apparently intending to make? He has a vitality-destroying ability, that lowers a player's lifespan by a not insignificant amount over a few days... and his first thought is not to use this on someone he thinks is scum, but rather supposedly on one of his town reads. Because, apparently, he thinks that having their vitality hidden is enough of a benefit to scum to offset being effectively poisoned. Also note where he never appears to have considered the choice of just not using the ability, which is something I would have considered if I, as town truly thought that my ability would hurt town regardless on who I used it on, which would be the case if I had his role and actually thought hidden vitality was a real benefit to scum. That's why I never used my ability in Mostly Mute Monk, even when I could. This apparently has never crossed his mind.
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It's ironic that someone at some point said he thought there was a concerted effort to get AI through the day, because right now I'm feeling there's a distinct effort to get Killjoy through the day. One that's reminding me a lot of Cyberspace Mafia, and how three out of RobRoy's four teammates apparently felt his extra kill (which he also tried to spin as a town ability and wanted to be left alive one night to use and 'prove himself') was worth falling all over themselves to attempt to keep him from being lynched. Of these, Rhand looks particularly bad, but I don't like the way Sir Chris and HookerPunch are responding either.
I want to vote Killjoy, but first: @Mod: Votecount, please.
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oh yeah, Seppel's post reminds me about Rhand's question about why I'm suggesting that killjoy put too much thought into scum usage of his ability
Killjoy says:
>How do you think hiding Vitality scores helps scum? It doesn't. That's my thinking.
>I was going to use it on town to keep that info out of scum eyes.
Seppel's summary of this is:
>You want to attack people you think are town so you can hide their vitality
Leaving out the loaded language of "attack," I think we get the idea.
My problem with this logic is that I have no idea what Vitality does or how it is used. My own ability means I get to cheat actually, which you'll all see soon enough (I can only hand you guys so many loaves of bread here; I am not Jesus). However, Killjoy seems to be suggesting that hiding vitality totals is a boon for town. How does he know this? What insight into the scum team's abilities does he have that he could make this statement? I'm not a fan of his suggestion that a townie "would be truthful anyway" or whatever he said. That strikes me like attacking the problem from the wrong angle. Cart before horse and whatnot.
Anyway, that's my thinking.
After sleeping on it, and taking the above into info consideration (namely, how does he know that hiding scum vitality is useful to them) Unvote, vote Killjoy
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DC: I am a better scum player than you give me credit for lol.
KillJoy should answers all questions related to his claim before we continue this conversation.
I don't like Sir Chris attempting to play this off as sarcasm. Mainly because I don't remember a single hint before from him that it was supposed to be a sarcastic response. In fact, I seem to recall him implying it was a serious response at one point.
If you think my post was completely serious when you look back on what DCIII actually said... I don't know what to tell you. That's just dumb.
I don't like how non-committal this is, at this point in the day.
I am sorry that I do not fake certainty when I do not feel like it. But generally I thought having your vote on someone was a good sign that one is not being non-committal. The quote you posted was merely me mulling over the claim and how he did it possibly changing my mind.
Your observations about me are crap, truthfully. Like I have no idea how you even think the things you do about them. Accuse me of being non-committal when I made a post devoted to an iso of Killjoy and very obviously having no reading comprehension in regards to the first thing I mentioned. Just no.
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@Chris - Why would you call my vote sound and fair without asking for more detail?
@Proph - if I'm wrong, then what did you see as the benefit of taking that angle with Meg?
Was thinking this was par for the course Wildfire until #57 and #66. Didn't notice Niv's behavior was uncharacteristic, was asked about why he'd pressure HP and not Niv. Backs off HP for reasons it's unlikely he wouldn't have considered prior to the vote (and also says both that the vote wasn't super serious but that his vote was because he saw something suspicious and voted it), then reiterates suspicion on Niv for "uncharacteristic behavior" which had been pointed out to him - feels like he's trying to put focus on it now because he realizes the inconsistency from earlier.
I was being cheeky.
...From the same god damn page.
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Like seriously maybe it is just me without coffee in the morning but what is Des even talking about in his big paragraph. Sorry for the multiple posts but like he says someone is trying to get Killjoy throughout the day, but then he names me who has been nothing but suspicious of Killjoy for quite awhile now. Who has a vote on him. He started the paragraph with one thought and then, at least in my case I'll have to look up the other names at some point, just completely contradicted the point of it. That was just an awful post in regards to me, which I guess to be fair is easy to see given it is about me. The sad thing is I don't know if I should think it is scummy for how contradicting it is or town for how obviously oblivious it is.
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I'm assuming if someone reaches 0 vitality, they die.
Quote from The Opening Post »
The game's key mechanic is Vitality. Each player has a Vitality score which is always displayed in the game’s first post or in votecounts. When a player’s Vitality score reaches 0 or less, they die. Dying from loss of Vitality does not count as a “kill.” Vitality affects many parts of this game.
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I'm assuming if someone reaches 0 vitality, they die.
Quote from The Opening Post »
The game's key mechanic is Vitality. Each player has a Vitality score which is always displayed in the game’s first post or in votecounts. When a player’s Vitality score reaches 0 or less, they die. Dying from loss of Vitality does not count as a “kill.” Vitality affects many parts of this game.
@killjoy: Can you claim your ability names and flavor?
Sure.
Names are Poison Vitae and Dampen Spirit respectively.
Flavor is basically a conversation between two people, whom I will call Genecidal Grandfather and Other Guy. GG is talking about how Demernae was suspicious that something would happen to her home world if she ever left. Then a natural disaster erupted on another of her planets, so she had to go save them. Genecidal Grandfather swooped in and remade the world as he saw fit. OG I'd image is sipping tea while listening to this story and laughing smugly. They both seem to be kind of ********s.
That's a potential town application too, and literally the thing that was making it a town ability to me: it's a slow vig (maybe).
I'm not entirely clear on how the ability works. Please clarify what would happen if you target a player and don't target any other players.
If I use it on someone, then don't use it again until it's done... Every night it deals 3 damage. If I use it again before it finishes, then the damage goes down on all current applications of it by one.
@KillJoy: does the person you targetted get informed about his own vitality when it's no longer visible in thread?
How many days does the bleeding last?
Yes; The person who is affected knows their Vitality. It's just no longer public information. 3 Nights.
Your ability could kill him in what, 3 days? I don't see why you wouldn't want a slowvig on a scum.
I never said it was the slowvig that scum couldn't have. I don't think scum would have the Vitality hiding ability. It potentially deprives them of too much info if they hit town, and hitting scum means that the scum team will be the only ones with their Vitality hidden. Doesn't make sense as a scum ability.
oh yeah, Seppel's post reminds me about Rhand's question about why I'm suggesting that killjoy put too much thought into scum usage of his ability
Killjoy says:
>How do you think hiding Vitality scores helps scum? It doesn't. That's my thinking.
>I was going to use it on town to keep that info out of scum eyes.
Seppel's summary of this is:
>You want to attack people you think are town so you can hide their vitality
Leaving out the loaded language of "attack," I think we get the idea.
My problem with this logic is that I have no idea what Vitality does or how it is used. My own ability means I get to cheat actually, which you'll all see soon enough (I can only hand you guys so many loaves of bread here; I am not Jesus). However, Killjoy seems to be suggesting that hiding vitality totals is a boon for town. How does he know this? What insight into the scum team's abilities does he have that he could make this statement? I'm not a fan of his suggestion that a townie "would be truthful anyway" or whatever he said. That strikes me like attacking the problem from the wrong angle. Cart before horse and whatnot.
Anyway, that's my thinking.
Why do I think hiding Vitality is a boon for town? ...because that's my ability. I have the ability, so therefore I assumed that having it hidden would be somehow advantagous, especially considering they still know it. Would you expect me to get that ability and assume that it does nothing useful, Meg?
What I'm understanding from this, and from your 'scum suspect list' is that you're apparently saying that suggesting Alway Eteem first thing in the game is suspicious because it's fishing. Except, you know, where it's the exact opposite of fishing. And where someone would have had to suggest somewhere at some point, because we sure as heck couldn't stay on the First Halls.
No, your stated reasoning for giving that list is nonsensical, and the sheer number of 'no reason given' (so what does that actually tell us?) on that list really makes one wonder why you bothered posting that list in the first place. And there's a very simple scum reason to do so.
You're apperently understanding wrong, then. Because as I've already explained it risks outing who uses abilities too early in the game. So, wanting to go there, especially without choosing to quantify your reasons to do so, is suspicious. What does it tell us? That they either chose not to, or can't give a reason. So yeah, it's suspicious.
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I feel like I need to explain how I saw this role when I got it.
The role has two halves.
1 is a slow vig that deals a max of 9 damage to whomever if I stop using it for 2 more days. Then it can deal 6 damage over 3 days after that, then 3. So a total of 18 damage over 9 days, assuming I hit the same person over and over.
2 is the Vitality hiding. The fact that I have this ability makes me want to think it's useful somehow, as explained above.
Now I can use this ability one of two ways: As the slow vig with a downside of hiding my targets vitality, which I currently have no way of knowing if that's significant... but I don't want my scumspects Vitality hidden from the public.
Or, I can use it specifically to hide people's vitality with the downside of dealing damage to them, which I can mitigate by using my ability subsequent nights.
Granted, I will admit that I forgot that Worlds did damage to players, so that may have affected my thoughts on this: I decided that the slow vig just didn't do enough damage and the downside of hiding vitality was further a bad idea. And given that I can mitigate the damage, and that it didn't require me to survive 9 Days, I decided to use my ability to hide Vitality from the public, possibly making it harder for scum to kill them without wasting their nightkill on them, since reducing Vitality to 0 will kill someone, and doing so holds less accountability/suspicion since it's an ability and not the scum nightkill.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I'd grab it for you but I'm in between moving heavy boxes right now.
Oh the "My ability sucks give me one please" posts? Yeah IDK why he would say that. Maybe he has inside information that his ability is useless, or maybe it's just obviously useless. IDK. Mine isn't obvious though.
Apperently I did. I believe the answer to this is in my big paragraph at the end of my recent big post.
That, and I'm wary because he asked me to do it. Makes me think he would somehow benefit from it, aside from the obvious hiding of his Vitality.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
If you discount the vitality loss from your ability, it seems pretty obviously useless. The only thing it does is hide vitality. Who benefits from hidden vitality? I'm going to say scum. With visible vitality, you can map your actions to vitality losses much more easily, which makes tracking actions more clear. As you said, town has no reason to lie about their current vitality, so what use is hiding it? Sure, you block the scum from seeing it, but you also block the town from seeing it, meaning that the rest of the town just asks about their vitality, and they answer truthfully. Then scum has that info. If scum's vitality is hidden, they can more easily lie about it and about what abilities they've been using.
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KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Killjoy says:
>How do you think hiding Vitality scores helps scum? It doesn't. That's my thinking.
>I was going to use it on town to keep that info out of scum eyes.
Seppel's summary of this is:
>You want to attack people you think are town so you can hide their vitality
Leaving out the loaded language of "attack," I think we get the idea.
My problem with this logic is that I have no idea what Vitality does or how it is used. My own ability means I get to cheat actually, which you'll all see soon enough (I can only hand you guys so many loaves of bread here; I am not Jesus). However, Killjoy seems to be suggesting that hiding vitality totals is a boon for town. How does he know this? What insight into the scum team's abilities does he have that he could make this statement? I'm not a fan of his suggestion that a townie "would be truthful anyway" or whatever he said. That strikes me like attacking the problem from the wrong angle. Cart before horse and whatnot.
Anyway, that's my thinking.
If the only thing you were referring to was that one post (I have other reasons I'd like to lynch him), then why would you ask if it's too late to switch to him Today if the reason for saying that was contingent on the flip of Killjoy?
This is a good point. If the only thing that KJ knows is the role he claimed, there's something off about making the assumption that hiding one's vitality is a benefit worth progressive vitality loss.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
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2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
Why, because of the word "manufactured"? That's just my diction, dude.
That requires effort.
When pretty much everything Killjoy has done makes me want to lynch the guy and I have dissected his posts time after time, I'm done hammering my points home. I really don't want to have to keep doing such when he's this close to being lynched. Let's just end the Day, already.
Pretty much all of this. I imagine Yblisa and Voes(, was it?) are the two roles that definitely can't be town, and there may be some town shenanigans in the mix, as well.
I don't see Killjoy using this ability helpfully at all and I see no reason to keep it around.
I don't remember Killjoy saying it was.
Town lie, too.
Funny enough, I was going to target you toNight.
I've got 99 problems and his behavior is all of them.
Yep.
...because if you were scum, you wouldn't think of a townie spin to put on your ability when you were going to claim?
Yep.
^
Rhand it's things like this that make me not like you this game.
This.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
No, I don't care about what you asked him to do. I care that his content in doing such was abysmal.
Somehow glazed over this. Yeah, and I don't like the "appeal to everyone" in this, either.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
And why am I the only one seeing how Meg is bending backwards to get this lynch pushed through?
I am serious about Megiddo though.
But think hard: Why? Spend more than two seconds on this.
Plus, this is only even a remote scum tell if killjoy is town, and if you know that for certain please let us know.
Because Megiddo is town so I'm down with him supporting my push.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Do you think killjoy is town?
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
I presume this is directed towards Rhand
We could lynch him and find out!
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@chris what do you mean by this?
Ehm this is @Meg. Note to self: use refresh button when drafting while playing mafia
The wagon is being pushed by a flock of scumreads. And I never saw anything that is damning enough to call KillJoy scum. He's playing like I'm used to from him.
Rhand: +town
>lynch Killjoy
>flips scum
>lynch Iso
If killjoy isn't lynched by tomorrow I have something I will do.
Also Iso note where my vote is lol.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
Interesting claim though.
I believe it due to ~reasons~ related to my role.
Is it town? Probably. It's like a *****ty vig sorta.
Either way, we're all gonna burn
Yes. So?
I don't like Sir Chris attempting to play this off as sarcasm. Mainly because I don't remember a single hint before from him that it was supposed to be a sarcastic response. In fact, I seem to recall him implying it was a serious response at one point.
...yeah, no.
What I'm understanding from this, and from your 'scum suspect list' is that you're apparently saying that suggesting Alway Eteem first thing in the game is suspicious because it's fishing. Except, you know, where it's the exact opposite of fishing. And where someone would have had to suggest somewhere at some point, because we sure as heck couldn't stay on the First Halls.
No, your stated reasoning for giving that list is nonsensical, and the sheer number of 'no reason given' (so what does that actually tell us?) on that list really makes one wonder why you bothered posting that list in the first place. And there's a very simple scum reason to do so.
I don't like how non-committal this is, at this point in the day.
Question 1. Who are these 'scumreads'? Please list them.
Question 2. Riddle me this. How in the world are you reading a town mindset into Killjoy's claim and the choices he was apparently intending to make? He has a vitality-destroying ability, that lowers a player's lifespan by a not insignificant amount over a few days... and his first thought is not to use this on someone he thinks is scum, but rather supposedly on one of his town reads. Because, apparently, he thinks that having their vitality hidden is enough of a benefit to scum to offset being effectively poisoned. Also note where he never appears to have considered the choice of just not using the ability, which is something I would have considered if I, as town truly thought that my ability would hurt town regardless on who I used it on, which would be the case if I had his role and actually thought hidden vitality was a real benefit to scum. That's why I never used my ability in Mostly Mute Monk, even when I could. This apparently has never crossed his mind.
--------------------
It's ironic that someone at some point said he thought there was a concerted effort to get AI through the day, because right now I'm feeling there's a distinct effort to get Killjoy through the day. One that's reminding me a lot of Cyberspace Mafia, and how three out of RobRoy's four teammates apparently felt his extra kill (which he also tried to spin as a town ability and wanted to be left alive one night to use and 'prove himself') was worth falling all over themselves to attempt to keep him from being lynched. Of these, Rhand looks particularly bad, but I don't like the way Sir Chris and HookerPunch are responding either.
I want to vote Killjoy, but first: @Mod: Votecount, please.
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After sleeping on it, and taking the above into info consideration (namely, how does he know that hiding scum vitality is useful to them)
Unvote, vote Killjoy
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KillJoy should answers all questions related to his claim before we continue this conversation.
If you think my post was completely serious when you look back on what DCIII actually said... I don't know what to tell you. That's just dumb.
I am sorry that I do not fake certainty when I do not feel like it. But generally I thought having your vote on someone was a good sign that one is not being non-committal. The quote you posted was merely me mulling over the claim and how he did it possibly changing my mind.
Your observations about me are crap, truthfully. Like I have no idea how you even think the things you do about them. Accuse me of being non-committal when I made a post devoted to an iso of Killjoy and very obviously having no reading comprehension in regards to the first thing I mentioned. Just no.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
...From the same god damn page.
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
2014 - Best Mafia Performance (Individual)(Wu Tang)
2014 - Best Mafia Newcomer
2015 - Best Town Performance (Individual) (Predator)
2015 - Best Town Performance (Group) - Predator Mafia
2015 - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - 2015 Invitational
2015 - Best Town Player
2015 - Best Mafia Player
2015 - Best Overall Player
This is the worst reason to think Killjoy is town.
[/quote]
What reason do you have for denying him?
Have I ever seen a scumRhand?
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That was the most fun victory ever.
Anyway, I'm feeling a little better about you. I think you're just misguided.
>scumAI looking to rebound a lynch off of Iso after we lynch his buddy
-
/barn dC in regards to Rhand.
{мы, тьма}
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2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
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It's almost as if you're reading a different thread from everyone else.
Thanks. Insightful wording there.
Dear god we're almost up to 1400 posts on D1.
Names are Poison Vitae and Dampen Spirit respectively.
Flavor is basically a conversation between two people, whom I will call Genecidal Grandfather and Other Guy. GG is talking about how Demernae was suspicious that something would happen to her home world if she ever left. Then a natural disaster erupted on another of her planets, so she had to go save them. Genecidal Grandfather swooped in and remade the world as he saw fit. OG I'd image is sipping tea while listening to this story and laughing smugly. They both seem to be kind of ********s.
If I use it on someone, then don't use it again until it's done... Every night it deals 3 damage. If I use it again before it finishes, then the damage goes down on all current applications of it by one. Yes; The person who is affected knows their Vitality. It's just no longer public information. 3 Nights. That I don't know.. I can ask the mod though. I never said it was the slowvig that scum couldn't have. I don't think scum would have the Vitality hiding ability. It potentially deprives them of too much info if they hit town, and hitting scum means that the scum team will be the only ones with their Vitality hidden. Doesn't make sense as a scum ability. Why do I think hiding Vitality is a boon for town? ...because that's my ability. I have the ability, so therefore I assumed that having it hidden would be somehow advantagous, especially considering they still know it. Would you expect me to get that ability and assume that it does nothing useful, Meg?
You're apperently understanding wrong, then. Because as I've already explained it risks outing who uses abilities too early in the game. So, wanting to go there, especially without choosing to quantify your reasons to do so, is suspicious. What does it tell us? That they either chose not to, or can't give a reason. So yeah, it's suspicious.
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I feel like I need to explain how I saw this role when I got it.
The role has two halves.
1 is a slow vig that deals a max of 9 damage to whomever if I stop using it for 2 more days. Then it can deal 6 damage over 3 days after that, then 3. So a total of 18 damage over 9 days, assuming I hit the same person over and over.
2 is the Vitality hiding. The fact that I have this ability makes me want to think it's useful somehow, as explained above.
Now I can use this ability one of two ways: As the slow vig with a downside of hiding my targets vitality, which I currently have no way of knowing if that's significant... but I don't want my scumspects Vitality hidden from the public.
Or, I can use it specifically to hide people's vitality with the downside of dealing damage to them, which I can mitigate by using my ability subsequent nights.
Granted, I will admit that I forgot that Worlds did damage to players, so that may have affected my thoughts on this: I decided that the slow vig just didn't do enough damage and the downside of hiding vitality was further a bad idea. And given that I can mitigate the damage, and that it didn't require me to survive 9 Days, I decided to use my ability to hide Vitality from the public, possibly making it harder for scum to kill them without wasting their nightkill on them, since reducing Vitality to 0 will kill someone, and doing so holds less accountability/suspicion since it's an ability and not the scum nightkill.
Any other questions?
Like first few posts of the game?
I'd grab it for you but I'm in between moving heavy boxes right now.
Why would you not want to slowvig a scum?
Oh the "My ability sucks give me one please" posts? Yeah IDK why he would say that. Maybe he has inside information that his ability is useless, or maybe it's just obviously useless. IDK. Mine isn't obvious though.
Apperently I did. I believe the answer to this is in my big paragraph at the end of my recent big post.
That, and I'm wary because he asked me to do it. Makes me think he would somehow benefit from it, aside from the obvious hiding of his Vitality.
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