@Iso, voting Karn dragged him out of his shell, was hoping I could get Niv's attention to. I don't like lurkers.
@EtR, I thought it would have been fairly obvious, since right above the part you quoted I asked when Cythare was done with his V/LA. Niv isn't V/LA and so has no reason to be away from the thread, and in fact, said he was posting... What, 2 IRL days ago? 3? If someone didn't have time to finish a catchup post, what do you think is the sensible route? Post nothing at all, or at least post SOMETHING?
So it was a pressure vote? Do you actually think Niv is scum?
"Actually", I don't know. Niv hasn't posted anything. In general, lurking hurts town and benefits scum. Why do you seem so sure he is town?
I don't take the Sir seriously, I actually chose this name because I was playing my first game with some long time friends who know me by the name.
I do take mafia seriously though when it comes down to it.
Anyway as for why I chose that post: it stuck me as a post that could be used by scum to build a town perception. I didn't want scum to build a town perception on a post either alignment could make. So I took action to make sure that didn't happen. Basically we are doing the same thing: I am poking at the post as if the guy posting it could be scum, and you are poking at my poking like I could be scum. It makes sense, we're just on two parts of the same chain.
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@Iso, voting Karn dragged him out of his shell, was hoping I could get Niv's attention to. I don't like lurkers.
@EtR, I thought it would have been fairly obvious, since right above the part you quoted I asked when Cythare was done with his V/LA. Niv isn't V/LA and so has no reason to be away from the thread, and in fact, said he was posting... What, 2 IRL days ago? 3? If someone didn't have time to finish a catchup post, what do you think is the sensible route? Post nothing at all, or at least post SOMETHING?
So it was a pressure vote? Do you actually think Niv is scum?
"Actually", I don't know. Niv hasn't posted anything. In general, lurking hurts town and benefits scum. Why do you seem so sure he is town?
@EtR, yes, though obviously a single vote doesn't generate a great deal of pressure, it serves as a notice. It also helps me review my thoughts when I read back late game; I pay more attention to people who I have voted.
What gets me is the way you worded it, like I would be crazy to suspect Niv as scum. EtR, when would you begin to think lurking was scummy? Day 2? Day 3?
I have only played one GIP with him, but you are skirting around the answer. "Generally lurky" is different than not posting anything of content while popping up jus enough to promise content.
Hypothetically speaking, let's say Niv continues to do what he has done so far. Promise to provide content, posting just enough to avoid prods, but never posting his thoughts.
How long could he do that before you would start to think he was scum? Not just bad town mind you, but scum?
I don't have a specific number of times. I play by gut because I'm not good at recognizing tells so when my gut says that it's starting to feel off is when I'll start thinking he's scum.
Do you feel like your vote on Niv is going to get him to post his content?
I don't have a specific number of times. I play by gut because I'm not good at recognizing tells so when my gut says that it's starting to feel off is when I'll start thinking he's scum.
Do you feel like your vote on Niv is going to get him to post his content?
I don't know if it will. It can't hurt. Feel free to throw your vote on, since A) I could use the help and B) you arent voting anyone.
Niv was somebody who I voiced suspicions of, and he's like 4 days overdue on delivering content.
Asian's posting frequency has gone down significantly
Cythare's taken heat (from others, not myself) and has made himself scarce
Seppel actually managed to look townie enough that I feel alright with him
And there's still a handful of people who've barely posted.
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Niv was somebody who I voiced suspicions of, and he's like 4 days overdue on delivering content.
Asian's posting frequency has gone down significantly
Cythare's taken heat (from others, not myself) and has made himself scarce
Seppel actually managed to look townie enough that I feel alright with him
And there's still a handful of people who've barely posted.
Cythare already pointed out that he actually was V/LA. Unless he's really dedicated to the ruse, which would be very impressive but also very sad, I can say with certainty that he was actually away when he said he was. So do you mean something outside of the V/LA?
Please expound upon your seppel read.
Your other two are fine.
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Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
Blah. You all suck. This is why people feel free to lurk with impunity.
Unvote, Vote Cythare
Mainly because I didn't like Cythare's initial response to the suggestion to move to Alway, coupled with the "That isn't my scum game, because I change my meta around!" response.
I'm also not a fan of Karn and the million lurkers we have right now. For some reason I didn't like Killjoy but I can't remember right now. I didn't like the Chris and AI wagons, and even though he has been a bit eccentric, I have Wildfire leaning town.
Speaking of lurkers, shouldn't Proph be back by now?
I like Sir Chris's defense of himself. Part of that is because I think the whole "town are care and fancy free!" thing is BS. Town points for Sir Chris.
@DC3/Megiddo/Proph, can any of you explain the Wintertell thing DC3 is referring to?
@Wildfire, IIoA is "information instead of analysis".
For those who don't want to go to Alaway, I would like to hear the reasoning. If it's "I would like a claim first", then state that outright. "It's too early" is a poor reason.
@Killjoy, your reasoning for not going to the Mirrored Domain is because a roleblocking scum wouldn't be blocked himself. Meaning that he would just has his normal roleblock. So it would be like moving to ANY OTHER WORLD. So do you have another reason?
The Winterfell thing could come for either alignment, so that's fine. The way he frames his Alaway discussion point seems disingenuous to me. Part of it is that he equates a move vote with a move to Alaway, and that he questions killjoy's reasoning for not wanting to go to Alaway being that he didn't believe a scum roleblocker would roleblock himself rather than address why killjoy suggested moving to Ruchperion.
Enough people want to wait for later, and I don't want the mechanics discussion taking up too much time.
Cythare, Sir Chris's answer was pretty much what I was getting at.
Still want an explanation of that Wintertell thing.
Then, an hour and a half later, he says "Enough people want to wait for later, and I don't want the mechanics discussion taking up too much time." I dislike the timing of this - in between his last post, where he does bring bring up mechanical stuff and this, Arian posted something short that indicated he wasn't interested in deciding at this time, as did I. But both of us had already stated these opinions. I guess Megiddo also stated he wanted to go to Ruchperion, but that's not a point in favor of this.
@Cythare, how do you think Megiddo is pushing/steering the conversation?
I disliked this before, but it's really just an easy question to ask, and based on Megiddo's posting, I'm not sure how one could have thought differently.
@Cythare, how do you think Megiddo is pushing/steering the conversation?
His posting style of asking a lot of questions to stay on the front foot results in him playing a strong role in the direction that discussion goes. This is not a bad thing - I just strongly disliked his statement above. Do you disagree?
Eh, I didn't feel like he was steering the conversation too much. Most of the early game has been interactions with Wildfire and Sir Chris, and I don't think either were being pushed heavily by Megiddo.
@Meg, what do you mean by "Oh yeah that was clearly BS"? Do you mean that you accept that you were steering the conversation?
If so, why deny it at first?
Then he quickly turns around and questions Meg after stating that he didn't think so. These questions just seem...superficial.
@Karn, I asked you some questions. I would like answers, especially since you have started posting. To wit: why are Wildfire and AI scum?
I'm not particularly bothered by voting Karn here, but it had been a while since he'd seemed to consider killjoy scum, so it may be worth noting.
He locks onto Karn, and I can't tell if it's something to be concerned about, but he locks onto it for a while without posting much else, and then the following post when questioned back seems somewhat like a hedge:
@Karn, I don't recall saying that you voting Wildfire and AI was the scummiest thing in this game. I will gladly wait here while you find that quote from me.
And my other question was: why are you so concerned about my vote on you?
@Karn, are you actually bothering to read my posts? I already told you that I voted you because I wanted you to explain your vote. I asked you to explain, you didn't, I voted you to make you stop lurking and explain your vote, you still haven't yet.
Since it is your assumption that one would only vote another person if the person had the "scummiest pos in the game", let me rephrase my question.
What post from Wildfire is the scummiest in the game?
Also, since you refuse to answer, I guess I will keep asking. Why does my vote on you concern you so much? It obviously must scare you, because you are desperate to have me move it. (Man, it's fun to play with leading questions!)
@Meg, that wasn't really a question, so I don't really have a response.
Niv, kpaca, Proph, Cythare, Hans, Rhand, and probably one or two more I forget are pretty much non-existent in this game. It's hard to be motivated toward this game when it feels like 1/3 to a half are lurking, especially when the people I'm poking don't bother to answer any questions. (Cough Karn cough)
When does Cythare's V/LA end again?
Since he doesn't have an official V/LA to my knowledge...
Vote Niv Let's see the catchup post.
Once is fine, but a second vote for a lurker just looks like an attempt to avoid a real wagon until it's more of a sure thing.
So Cythare, what do you think of the wagon on you?
I don't really understand it. Arian used a one-game meta, Seppel provided little reasoning aside from "he'll be caught if he lurks", and LnGrrrR referenced my dislike of deciding on a move out of the gate, which is terrible. I understand that "I intentionally change my meta" looked poor, so if that's the stake, then
tl;dr I understand my play hasn't been the best, but I don't understand being a wagon.
Niv was somebody who I voiced suspicions of, and he's like 4 days overdue on delivering content.
Asian's posting frequency has gone down significantly
Cythare's taken heat (from others, not myself) and has made himself scarce
Seppel actually managed to look townie enough that I feel alright with him
And there's still a handful of people who've barely posted.
Cythare already pointed out that he actually was V/LA. Unless he's really dedicated to the ruse, which would be very impressive but also very sad, I can say with certainty that he was actually away when he said he was. So do you mean something outside of the V/LA?
Please expound upon your seppel read.
Your other two are fine.
I mean, yes, he was V/LA. That doesn't change my observation that the people who looked scummy were also not posting. These two events were not necessarily causal.
As far as Seppel goes: he's been putting a little more effort into the game (just a little, not enough to make me suspicious of this being "calculating Seppel") and giving more than three-word reads. It's enough that I don't want to just lynch him purely because he's useless.
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I mean, I haven't seen pictures of Cythare AT the wedding, but all signs point to yes. As I mentioned he was around a day before he started posting again, but I can't really hold that against him.
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Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
I've been conscripted to act as an airport shuttle so I'm bored and have nothing better to do (read: I can't go to sleep)
Cythare's post up top is the realest thing he's done all game. To that point, my problem with you citing meta changes, cythare, is that (as I've alluded to before) it just feels fake. Trying too hard to look a certain way. And so your explanation of meta change falls flat for me. Meta changing is fine but it's really hard to change underlying motivations and the general feel of one's posts. Yours feel different and wrong. As for motivation... That's been subpar too in my opinion, for the same reason—it looks and feels like you're just faking it and not really scum hunting.
And yes I wanted a response to "hey scumbo" to indicate that you had at least read my post.
I think this is the main thing, and I thought I addressed it before. I don't really have much to say here - you say the mea change explanation falls flat and the motivation as well. I don't really have an answer to this, aside from "I'll have to do more scumhunting".
266: @Cythare: but actually I said earlier that I don't care where we go and I stand by that statement. The only update to this so far is that after reading Arian's analysis, I would prefer Ruchperion Today.
I guess there is also this, but I assume the reason for my trolling was clear - you're low on Vitality and players can't gain Vitality on that plane, which we move to at the end of the Day.
>these two events were not necessarily causal
why mention it at all then?
And to me it appears that you have a "range" for seppel, like so:
TOO FLIPPANT --- LESS FLIPPANT --- MORE CALCULATING --- TOO CALCULATING
SCUM ------------ TOWN ------------- TOWN --------------- SCUM
Accurate? Because you didn't hold this view at the beginning of this game.
My complaint was that, for the most part, the people posting a lot are the ones I've got town reads on, and the people I'm unsure about or have a scumread on aren't really posting. Hence, it looks mostly like town-on-town poke fests.
I don't really know how to deal with Seppel too well. I've only had one game with him, and I went in knowing his alignment, so I never truly had to try and read him.
I tried comparing his actions this game to his actions that game, but supposedly day 1 Seppel pretty much looks and acts the same unless you can somehow divine that he's only trying to look detached and is in fact calculating.
So when he was posting "X is scum". "Y looks down". <Disappear for a day>. "This action looks kinda scummy"
It was pretty difficult to tell anything about him, and I was inclined to want to lynch him because he looked like he did in the other game, and wasn't really adding much if he was town.
Since he's actually starting contributing in a somewhat helpful manner, I'm thinking more positively of him now. But I'm not getting that his posts are calculated, which is what I was told to look for for scum Seppel.
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How is that more clear than just saying "you" when you are clearly talking to me.
Yes, but that wasn't the sole point of the post. You wanted me to post why I thought AI was scummier, and it seemed clearer to present I as "Meg" rather than "you".
Niv was somebody who I voiced suspicions of, and he's like 4 days overdue on delivering content.
Asian's posting frequency has gone down significantly
Cythare's taken heat (from others, not myself) and has made himself scarce
Seppel actually managed to look townie enough that I feel alright with him
And there's still a handful of people who've barely posted.
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@iso:
>The second possibility is that because he is scum, and he knows there are 5 scum, he excludes himself mentally from the list as he's posting, asking me why I only think 4 people are scum (possibly because none of them are his buddies! unlikely, IMO) because he already knows he's scum.
This feels like a stretch. There's an idea here but it's like... still gestating. It's strange to me because it's effectively a reverse scumslip. Instead of inadvertently saying that he's scum, you're saying that he inadvertently said that he's not scum... which makes him scum.
I can kind of buy the explanation that he's "mentally excluding himself" from being scum, but how does that differentiate from a townie who would mentally exclude themselves from being scum naturally?
Or is it that because he's focusing on excluding himself that he saw the list of 5, was in "I am town" autopilot mode, and only registered the four other people?
If you're right about this you get my vote for best scum slip catch 2014. But honestly I don't think you are.
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Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
I do have the novel in progress, but I just got home from work, and I'm heading back out to midnight release for M15. I then work tommorrow untill about 5 or 6 PST. I'll then get home, and do nothing but work on the post till the post is done. I got sidetracked by League of Legends earlier and didn't get as much typed up as I wanted, (about 100 posts in) but I'll have everything up by tommorrow night.
In other news, Kpaca is his lurky scum self again.
Unvote, vote Kpaca
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"Actually", I don't know. Niv hasn't posted anything. In general, lurking hurts town and benefits scum. Why do you seem so sure he is town?
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I do take mafia seriously though when it comes down to it.
Anyway as for why I chose that post: it stuck me as a post that could be used by scum to build a town perception. I didn't want scum to build a town perception on a post either alignment could make. So I took action to make sure that didn't happen. Basically we are doing the same thing: I am poking at the post as if the guy posting it could be scum, and you are poking at my poking like I could be scum. It makes sense, we're just on two parts of the same chain.
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I didn't say he was.
What gets me is the way you worded it, like I would be crazy to suspect Niv as scum. EtR, when would you begin to think lurking was scummy? Day 2? Day 3?
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Hypothetically speaking, let's say Niv continues to do what he has done so far. Promise to provide content, posting just enough to avoid prods, but never posting his thoughts.
How long could he do that before you would start to think he was scum? Not just bad town mind you, but scum?
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Do you feel like your vote on Niv is going to get him to post his content?
Thanks,
-meg
I don't know if it will. It can't hurt. Feel free to throw your vote on, since A) I could use the help and B) you arent voting anyone.
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(basically I'm barning you here etr)
You're voting a lurker who you don't know the alignment of and you're asking for more votes because that'll help you find out if he's town or scum.
Become useful please.
It would be awkward explaining why I care.
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See, that's an actually useful post. Please provide citations for that statement.
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Asian's posting frequency has gone down significantly
Cythare's taken heat (from others, not myself) and has made himself scarce
Seppel actually managed to look townie enough that I feel alright with him
And there's still a handful of people who've barely posted.
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So Cythare, what do you think of the wagon on you?
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Cythare already pointed out that he actually was V/LA. Unless he's really dedicated to the ruse, which would be very impressive but also very sad, I can say with certainty that he was actually away when he said he was. So do you mean something outside of the V/LA?
Please expound upon your seppel read.
Your other two are fine.
Unvote, Vote Cythare
Mainly because I didn't like Cythare's initial response to the suggestion to move to Alway, coupled with the "That isn't my scum game, because I change my meta around!" response.
I'm also not a fan of Karn and the million lurkers we have right now. For some reason I didn't like Killjoy but I can't remember right now. I didn't like the Chris and AI wagons, and even though he has been a bit eccentric, I have Wildfire leaning town.
Speaking of lurkers, shouldn't Proph be back by now?
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Stuff I dislike about LnGrrrR. Generally, I feel like his approach is asking questions to ask questions:
He then states that AI gave a strong reason to move to Ruchperion. Sure.
Then, an hour and a half later, he says "Enough people want to wait for later, and I don't want the mechanics discussion taking up too much time." I dislike the timing of this - in between his last post, where he does bring bring up mechanical stuff and this, Arian posted something short that indicated he wasn't interested in deciding at this time, as did I. But both of us had already stated these opinions. I guess Megiddo also stated he wanted to go to Ruchperion, but that's not a point in favor of this.
I disliked this before, but it's really just an easy question to ask, and based on Megiddo's posting, I'm not sure how one could have thought differently.
Then he quickly turns around and questions Meg after stating that he didn't think so. These questions just seem...superficial.
This one too. I can see how my second post looked bad, but it seemed self-explanatory.
This is follow-up on me, which he then drops (or maybe figures out?), and his question to Seppel also seems like an easy question.
I'm not particularly bothered by voting Karn here, but it had been a while since he'd seemed to consider killjoy scum, so it may be worth noting.
He locks onto Karn, and I can't tell if it's something to be concerned about, but he locks onto it for a while without posting much else, and then the following post when questioned back seems somewhat like a hedge:
"At least one of the reasons"
States "this is why I voted you": one reason.
Once is fine, but a second vote for a lurker just looks like an attempt to avoid a real wagon until it's more of a sure thing.
Unvote
Vote LnGrrrR
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tl;dr I understand my play hasn't been the best, but I don't understand being a wagon. Yes. See above.
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I mean, yes, he was V/LA. That doesn't change my observation that the people who looked scummy were also not posting. These two events were not necessarily causal.
As far as Seppel goes: he's been putting a little more effort into the game (just a little, not enough to make me suspicious of this being "calculating Seppel") and giving more than three-word reads. It's enough that I don't want to just lynch him purely because he's useless.
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>these two events were not necessarily causal
why mention it at all then?
And to me it appears that you have a "range" for seppel, like so:
Accurate? Because you didn't hold this view at the beginning of this game.
I guess there is also this, but I assume the reason for my trolling was clear - you're low on Vitality and players can't gain Vitality on that plane, which we move to at the end of the Day.
I think I responded to your other things.
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My complaint was that, for the most part, the people posting a lot are the ones I've got town reads on, and the people I'm unsure about or have a scumread on aren't really posting. Hence, it looks mostly like town-on-town poke fests.
I don't really know how to deal with Seppel too well. I've only had one game with him, and I went in knowing his alignment, so I never truly had to try and read him.
I tried comparing his actions this game to his actions that game, but supposedly day 1 Seppel pretty much looks and acts the same unless you can somehow divine that he's only trying to look detached and is in fact calculating.
So when he was posting "X is scum". "Y looks down". <Disappear for a day>. "This action looks kinda scummy"
It was pretty difficult to tell anything about him, and I was inclined to want to lynch him because he looked like he did in the other game, and wasn't really adding much if he was town.
Since he's actually starting contributing in a somewhat helpful manner, I'm thinking more positively of him now. But I'm not getting that his posts are calculated, which is what I was told to look for for scum Seppel.
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Let's do it guys.
This guy...
Care to back up those statements?
that doesn't really answer the "wtf" reaction I had to your post.
plz b useful thx
Why are you stepping up to bat for him?
I'm pretty much with you on that. Can I have a response to my response to you now, please?
thank you for useful-ifying yourself
I forget why I quoted this.
Maybe on Day 4 or 5; I wanna lynch Killjoy, AsianInvasion, Prophylaxis, and maybe Cythare first.
hi pls no double standard
Except Killjoy is, too.
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>The second possibility is that because he is scum, and he knows there are 5 scum, he excludes himself mentally from the list as he's posting, asking me why I only think 4 people are scum (possibly because none of them are his buddies! unlikely, IMO) because he already knows he's scum.
This feels like a stretch. There's an idea here but it's like... still gestating. It's strange to me because it's effectively a reverse scumslip. Instead of inadvertently saying that he's scum, you're saying that he inadvertently said that he's not scum... which makes him scum.
I can kind of buy the explanation that he's "mentally excluding himself" from being scum, but how does that differentiate from a townie who would mentally exclude themselves from being scum naturally?
Or is it that because he's focusing on excluding himself that he saw the list of 5, was in "I am town" autopilot mode, and only registered the four other people?
If you're right about this you get my vote for best scum slip catch 2014. But honestly I don't think you are.
you're a ******* joke