I also want to add that I do not intend to alter my voting behavior due to the Saint mechanic unless the rest of the Town requests that I do. I will happy hammer Scum without hesitation. If I'm wrong, I deserve to die. And if I'm right, I'm safe anyway.
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You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
Did I say that? In fact have I ever voted you just because you are Iso? (Outside of RVS of course) It can't be a policy vote if there is no previous history of me voting you just because you are you.
That's literally what you just said you're doing, though. You're voting me because you claim you can't read me, and basically because other people are voting me. That's pretty much the definition of a policy vote.
"According to #208, yes you did. You said that Tanarin was intentionally painting you in a negative light, and even though you didn't say it directly, you were certainly hinting at it making him scummy. You're trying to worm your way out of this because you just need an excuse to vote me since I've crumbled each and every reason you've given to do so."
You're seriously questioning my policy of brutal honesty? roflmao.
I've got some reading to do guys, don't expect too much out of me for the next day or two. In the meantime, please give me the skinny. What have we figured out about the game mechanics? Who has been scummy? And who should I focus on while reading? Actually, if everyone could give me their top scum suspect and a short reason why, I think that would help me immensely.
probably your mom.
You, for Shockwave's play, Tanarin, for his 180 on me, and Wheat, for "forgetting" Day 1.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
A. I naked voted iRebel because he was justifying the wagon after it ended in a townflip. It also reads to me as though he does not consider himself a part of the town.
B. The reason for the vote on Iso is because that is very, VERY un-Iso behavior. I've never seen Iso feel terrible at mafia (or admit that he feels terrible at mafia) while the game is still ongoing. Iso NEVER admits to flaws.
So why is he doing so now? I think he's trying a behavior unlike one he's tried before to throw Jey off the scent. He knows that I'm very likely to join Jey because I tend to put weight behind Jey's intuition, and that I am capable of getting him lynched if I really try hard.
As to why I voted him in that fashion, it's because it was 1am and it tickled my wrong-meter too much not to go over the top.
hello? did you miss the Day 1 Iso wagon in its entirety?
Did you somehow forget this post and this post, where I did exactly that and you eventually stopped riding the Iso train?
If you say you did, I don't buy it for a second.
I did not forget what I did Day 1.
You seem to, though. The reason I got off the Iso train was because you suddenly turned into your old self.
A) Ahh OK, I figured this was the reason, but wanted to make sure. I was actually scratching my head on the fact he had no real conviction as to who to vote or at least pressure for today. At last check, he said his top suspects were Kami (Lynched), Soock (being replaced) and JAR. On top of that he had Shock and Jar tied in his likely suspects. He also had JAR as his first sumsuspect way back in post #82, so one would figure he would want to go after him today, if only for pressure.
@iRebel: Can you please provide us a T/S list with reasoning. I really want to know where you stand as the majority of your content posts were strictly focused on Kami and/or JAR
B) Alright. Again, I am hesitant to go to meta here due to past experience, but at the same time, you are very correct that him showing any doubt during the game is odd at best. I think if anything though, an Iso wagon/lynch will flush out scum way better than just sitting here and wasting another week.
Vote Iso
L-2 warning
@Karn: I concur on the posting more, and the townhunting. At this point we need to do something, ANYTHING, to get activity up. Our lack of posting as a whole is providing scum with a perfect place to hide.
This entire post is just wrong.
You were defending me on Day 1 for doing this, and now it suddenly makes me scum? And the line to Karn afterwards reads so fakely.
And Wheat, as an aside, I'm pretty sure Iso has been *****ing about his mafia play a lot recently from his most recent games. I don't think it reeks entirely of un-Iso, but I do like your pitch that it's trying to throw me off from his trail. It wouldn't be that easy though ;P
Why would I need to throw you "off my trail" if I were scum? It's obvious that given Day 1, you lack the clout or case to push me - and in fact, you, yourself, got run up for just that. If I were scum, I wouldn't feel threatened by you here at all.
If you mind a bit of arrogance, it'd be because of me. I know to take Jey's intuition seriously and I'm also not too shabby at spinning bull***** to get people lynched.
And Wheat, as an aside, I'm pretty sure Iso has been *****ing about his mafia play a lot recently from his most recent games. I don't think it reeks entirely of un-Iso, but I do like your pitch that it's trying to throw me off from his trail. It wouldn't be that easy though ;P
This is true, but the tone sounds like it's on another level of *****ing beyond that.
Iso is scum because he's Plethora *****ing.
This isn't even a thing. You're making ***** up as you go.
When has this never been the case? A wise man doesn't plan, he steers.
I misplaced my steering wheel, but oh the things you can do with a little bit of rope and a ten foot pole.
Quote from Iso »
Unvote, Vote Tanarin
All of the votes on me are godawful but his is probably the worst given the 180 he did on me with the exact same reasoning he used to defend me on Day 1.
I disagree that all the votes are awful (certainly not all of them are scummy), but Tanarin's vote is indeed crappy, especially his reaction on being caught by it. "Oh well thoughts change"...that's true but not really applicable here.
At this point, there are so many lurkers that I'd be quite surprised if we won this game.
I'd lynch Tanarin if we want to. I wouldn't count Iso off scum even if Tanarin flips scum though.
I haven't read the game yet, but I don't like this post at all. Being defeatist always rubs me raw like "you might as well give up now Townies". It's also very wishy-washy and non-committal on the Tanarin lynch and is making sure to stay open to more lynches regardless of flips.
I never like defeatist posts. I REALLY never like posts that talk about the next lynch before the current one is decided.
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You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
Meh... don't care if people hate my vote and think it is crappy (And yes I realize it was crappy.) Fact of the matter is we were all sitting around twiddling our thumbs. If my wagon results in people getting off their asses, so be it.
@karn: Why not vote me if you think I am scum? Not like there are a lot of votes on me ATM.
@Asenion: I just answered this question for Karn, but to repeat:
I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
Tanarin and iRebel are scum, JAR as an outside bet.
Let's do this, men. The time for idleness is over, get going
iRebel's probably town, even in spite of what you voted him for. Tanarin's scumbuddy is still probably Asenion or you, given the way you're flopping around like a mackerel with your votes. "Vote Iso! NO WAIT VOTE TO CREATE A COUNTERWAGON"
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
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2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Bolly: Since when is changing your viewpoint scummy? (Hint: It isn't.) This is the same type of crap that Iso got me lynched for last game we played (Pleasantville.) In that game I had Iso as town the majority of the game, but when he was essentially CCed by another player, I immediately voted him. Guess what happened? I got run up because I changed my mind and voted him. That is what is happening now. I moved Iso from a town to scum read and now I am getting ran up for it.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Other than deciding the hammer and maybe the L-1 voter, I don't think we should be arranging the wagon. It gives too much squirming room for scum to maneuver. Their only real power this game is making sure the right people die to saints.
We should also be aware that if Scum play correctly, we only get 4 mislynches this game. I'm not going to explain how to guarantee only 4 mislynches to the Town, but we should be aware that is what we are up against. We have to lynch correctly 2/5 of the remaining attempts.
Bolly is Town and I won't listen to anyone or anything that disputes that. A nice feature of this game is that the Town doesn't have to keep any secrets from each other since the Scum can't directly kill. If you find a Townie, you can actually protect them in this game.
Iso and Jey interactions don't sit well with me in the early game. I'm also not sure how Iso made it out of Day 1, and barring something changing my mind he will probably get my vote when I'm done reading. If Iso is scum, I think Jey has a high chance of being his buddy.
I want Karn to hammer toDay.
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You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
EBWODP: And the other reason we shouldn't rearrange wagons is because Wagon Analysis is one of the best tools we have to catch scum this game. Especially if saints flip later, we can go back and look at who cared about their position on the wagon. I don't want artificially constructed wagons disrupting the natural flow that could catch scum.
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You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
Btw Bolly, I don't think I've played with you before. I get my reads primarily by interacting with people. I enjoy being run up because it lets me read the people voting me and I can often dissolve wagons and come out of it with a much better understanding of the game state. I also enjoy answering questions and when I'm done reading I'll probably start aggressively prodding people for information.
This game is special too, because I don't see any reason to lie about anything. Scum have no power here. There are no PRs to manipulate or hide. This is a purely cooperation game where we have to find the scum before it's too late. (3 mislynches if things go badly, 4 mislynches under normal circumstances, 5 mislynches if the scum misplay)
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You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
Oh look, stuff happened. Here's a quickie during my lunchbreak:
-Tanarin is town you bafoons. Stop this nonsense. I'm going to call it just like Kamikaze.
-Asenion's opening jig makes me cringe. If shockwave wasn't bad enough, this fake dude definitely needs a hangin'
-Asenion continues to drive me up a wall.
-Karn is actually one of the most annoying players in the universe, complains about lurking and then continues to do jack-all about anything. He should defo be L-1 or hammer but I have better fish to fry.
---
Thoughts: JAR and either Asenion or Iso is scum. I believe if Iso is town, he's definitely sainted and can kill the aforementioned suspects in one fell swoop, but I definitely lean more toward him just being scum.
Wheat, #336: I don’t consider what I said to be justifying. I was sure that Kami was scum and the fact I was wrong has broken a personal streak of nailing D1 scum.
Tanarin, #367: Sure. Though just to clarify, not having strong convictions doesn’t mean I don’t have scumspects. This list after catching up.
I Refuse to Lynch: Wheat: Has been asking good questions, follows up leads. His pressure/case on Jey was well written to me and I don’t think scum!wheat would have backed off at the end the way he did.
Sir Karn: I’ve gotten extremely strong Iso’s Inflammable Mafia vibes from Karn, and I’ve seen nothing to persuade me he is not town.
Niv: See Day 1.
Bolly: His posts have generally been full of decent content; is scum hunting.
I’d rather not lynch:
Iso: None of the arguments presented against Iso hold much water in my opinion, and I’m not willing to accept meta arguments. I’d rather deal with Iso via POE as the game progresses.
Void: Am willing to accept Iso’s read on Void as I haven’t seen him been wrong yet.
JeY K: I commented on this Day 1, but I’ll reiterate: There’s NO reason scum!JeY, or scum!X, would continue to pour interactions all over the thread if caught as scum. It doesn’t make any sense.
I’m okay lynching: Tanarin: I had Tanarin as Town yesterday, but his vote on Iso toDay was terrible, and I’m not liking his reasoning for the change of heart. POE plays a role here as I have four people I currently am refusing to lynch, and an additional three I like more than Tanarin currently.
I want to lynch: JAR: I thought he was scum Day 1, his play today has been awful (like that vote). Bolly’s made good points against him
Null: Asenion: Want to give this slot a chance to catch up and contribute before defining a stance. Slot was originally on the scum side for lurking.
Karn, #370: JAR has acted scummy. Does that count?
JAR, #374: Awful vote. Awful awful awful.
I am not a fan of Tanarin’s vote on Iso at all, and agree with Iso’s reasoning thus far.
I disagree with Iso that Wheat is scum — I understand where Wheat is coming from re: being on, then off, then on Iso’s wagon again, and it adds to Wheat being town in my book. A question for others: Has Wheat pushed through an Iso lynch before? And if so, what game(s)?
Bolly, #408: Like it. Like it a lot.
Tanarin, #411: Changing your opinion isn’t scummy. Your reason aren’t that impressive, however. Since you wanted a T/S list from me, return the favour and give me your full case and explanation on Iso.
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I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
I'm caught up. Why are we only 7 days out from the Deadline with awful activity level. It's time to step it up guys.
Here are my opinions:
Willing to bet the game on these 3 being town: Void, Niv, Bolly
FOS: Tanarin, Sir Karn
Hammer: Karn
L-1: Jey, Tanarin, or choice of Iso
Will lynch toDay: Iso, Tanarin
Vote Iso
If I find motivation, I would like to explain more in depth my thoughts on the Day 1 wagon and what it means about alignments. I think that topic is ripe for discussion. WG, iRebel, and JAR are all people I would like to interact with more.
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Quote from Megiddo »
You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
Tanarin and iRebel are scum, JAR as an outside bet.
Let's do this, men. The time for idleness is over, get going
iRebel's probably town, even in spite of what you voted him for. Tanarin's scumbuddy is still probably Asenion or you, given the way you're flopping around like a mackerel with your votes. "Vote Iso! NO WAIT VOTE TO CREATE A COUNTERWAGON"
Why do you believe iRebel to be town? I won't accept you saying "because someone else is more likely to be scum". That logic would be particularly poor in this setup.
In regards to vote flopping: You really haven't played with me in awhile, have you? That's one of my favorite mafia pastimes.
I am really disappointed at the activity level in this thread right now. People should be asking me questions about my reads. Or commenting on the fact that I just put Iso back at L-2.
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You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
Oh look, stuff happened. Here's a quickie during my lunchbreak:
-Tanarin is town you bafoons. Stop this nonsense. I'm going to call it just like Kamikaze.
-Asenion's opening jig makes me cringe. If shockwave wasn't bad enough, this fake dude definitely needs a hangin'
-Asenion continues to drive me up a wall.
-Karn is actually one of the most annoying players in the universe, complains about lurking and then continues to do jack-all about anything. He should defo be L-1 or hammer but I have better fish to fry.
---
Thoughts: JAR and either Asenion or Iso is scum. I believe if Iso is town, he's definitely sainted and can kill the aforementioned suspects in one fell swoop, but I definitely lean more toward him just being scum.
Why is there an Asenion/Iso dichotomy in your mind?
If I find motivation, I would like to explain more in depth my thoughts on the Day 1 wagon and what it means about alignments. I think that topic is ripe for discussion. WG, iRebel, and JAR are all people I would like to interact with more.
Why would you like to interact with them, specifically? Also, please do RE: explanations and wagon analyses.
Tanarin and iRebel are scum, JAR as an outside bet.
Let's do this, men. The time for idleness is over, get going
iRebel's probably town, even in spite of what you voted him for. Tanarin's scumbuddy is still probably Asenion or you, given the way you're flopping around like a mackerel with your votes. "Vote Iso! NO WAIT VOTE TO CREATE A COUNTERWAGON"
Why do you believe iRebel to be town? I won't accept you saying "because someone else is more likely to be scum". That logic would be particularly poor in this setup.
All of his posts (sans the one you voted him for) seem townie to me. Much like he can't see why you're scum, I can't see what would make him scum.
Quote from Wheat_Grinder »
In regards to vote flopping: You really haven't played with me in awhile, have you? That's one of my favorite mafia pastimes.
I am really disappointed at the activity level in this thread right now. People should be asking me questions about my reads. Or commenting on the fact that I just put Iso back at L-2.
Exactly what kind of response did you expect in a 5-hour period between these posts? Especially in such a lurksack game?
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2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
if from what I've picked up from the theory/discussion thread, Asenion is dragonheart91. if that's the case, then he's one of those impossible to read players, from my really old experience. that being said. I'm actually getting a town vibe from him atm. just seems like he actually want to figure this game out at a glance.
though I do have a question for him: in a vaccume, what would your read be on your predecessor. if you had just replaced into this game for someone else, who was town, would you be voting shockwave? what's your thoughts there, I'd like to get at least some sort of mindset from you regarding your predecessor.
from skimming the day, I'm finding myself largley in agreement with iRebel's assessments, epically the one on Tan. if I get time in the next week, I'll look back more, and cement this but I'm thinking this may be where we go today.
I'll get more into the thread probally tommorrow. I have another post at about 2000 words right now, for something else, and it's no where near done........
This is awkward. I guess most of you guys post while I'm sleeping. I can do some posting during the day at work, but mostly 6-10EST is my available time. That's why it annoys me that I made a post on my lunch break and it didn't get any responses by the time I was home for me to respond to.
#425, Asenion: Why are you suspicious of Karn? I definitely want to hear your thoughts and analysis of the Day 1 wagon.
Suspicious is probably the perfect word here. I don't directly think he's scum and it would take convincing to get me to vote for him, but I want him to put his money where his mouth is and hammer any wagons he votes for. In hindsight, I don't actually want him to be forced to hammer a wagon he wouldn't vote on his own. Or in other words, Karn has been a loudmouth this game and I want him to put up or shut up. Scum have the best reasons ever to be leaders in this set-up.
@Iso: I haven't read Katawa, but regardless of my exaggeration I think there is a higher chance of Jey buddying you for out of game reasons and it not being a direct scumtell than if Jey were a random person. I'm still considering it, but not quite on the "if Iso flips scum immediately lynch Jey" level. As for the people I hope to specifically interact with more, it's because they didn't leave any impact on me while I was reading the game. They are basically my mixed/null tells right now and I want to narrow them down by conversing with them. I think in this game in particular null tells are the most dangerous thing.
@Niv: Re: Shockwave: I think Shockwave was monumentally unimpressive Day 1 and said a couple of stupid things. I would probably have him leaning scum and needing more interaction if I replaced in as someone else right now. I would also mark him as lynch bait for the next time I needed to pull pressure off a lynch that I didn't want to happen.
@Bolly: Yes, I had forgotten. That was such a great game except for the part where we somehow didn't actually win. It was one of my best analytic games because it was one of the first times I was Vanilla Town and really stepped into the Leadership and Analysis role. If I recall, I helped lead us to successful lynches for the rest of the game after you saved me. And then we lost anyway because the Town couldn't ever win in that game even with no mislynches unless the enemy factions crosskilled or we got a lucky Doc shot. #Alsostillbitter
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You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
Slightly more context on my post because I got interrupted and hit submit without reviewing:
Specifically Karn has had a lot of strong opinions and a lack of analysis to back them up. Show your work in this game people - there is no Night kill to fear. I know I am being a bit of a hypocrite by saying that, but I'm going to attempt to show as much of my work as I can and I'll explain how I come to conclusions going forward.
And Shockwave shouldn't be near the top of anyone's scumlists. How did everyone just forget Iso's implosion under pressure Yesterday or his multiple out of character posts? When Iso posts strangely, it means he is gambiting and I've never seen an Iso gambit end well for the Town. Tanarin is more of a string of small things than any easy to point to incidents, so casing him will take me more effort than I can give at this moment. But I think Tanarin has a lot more evidence against him than Shockwave for just lurking and sounding dumb a couple times.
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You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
if from what I've picked up from the theory/discussion thread, Asenion is dragonheart91. if that's the case, then he's one of those impossible to read players, from my really old experience. that being said. I'm actually getting a town vibe from him atm. just seems like he actually want to figure this game out at a glance.
If that's true, then yes Asenion, you actually /have/ played with me before. I saved you in Star Trek: Voyager Mafia after replacing in and making the single best play I've ever made in a game.
@Iso: I haven't read Katawa, but regardless of my exaggeration I think there is a higher chance of Jey buddying you for out of game reasons and it not being a direct scumtell than if Jey were a random person. I'm still considering it, but not quite on the "if Iso flips scum immediately lynch Jey" level.
So basically, you're talking out of your ass.
Quote from Asenion »
And Shockwave shouldn't be near the top of anyone's scumlists. How did everyone just forget Iso's implosion under pressure Yesterday or his multiple out of character posts? When Iso posts strangely, it means he is gambiting and I've never seen an Iso gambit end well for the Town.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Are you claiming that you ARE scumbuddies with JeY? Because I don't understand your argument right now.
And no, I haven't read Ozone Underground. Note the phrasing that I've never seen an Iso gambit end well for Town. I'm sure you can quote me some game some time where you gambited hard to help the Town. But I've been burned by you pretending to be stupid or pretending to miss things to get advantage as scum. I wouldn't put it past you to try and emotionally manipulate us.
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You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
And Shockwave shouldn't be near the top of anyone's scumlists. How did everyone just forget Iso's implosion under pressure Yesterday or his multiple out of character posts? When Iso posts strangely, it means he is gambiting and I've never seen an Iso gambit end well for the Town. Tanarin is more of a string of small things than any easy to point to incidents, so casing him will take me more effort than I can give at this moment. But I think Tanarin has a lot more evidence against him than Shockwave for just lurking and sounding dumb a couple times.
"Shockwave (aka ME) shouldn't be a scumread by anyone! I mean, if you want proof for that...
QUICK LOOK OVER HERE! TWO SCUMMY PEOPLE THAT I HAVEN'T CASED!"
And Shockwave shouldn't be near the top of anyone's scumlists. How did everyone just forget Iso's implosion under pressure Yesterday or his multiple out of character posts? When Iso posts strangely, it means he is gambiting and I've never seen an Iso gambit end well for the Town. Tanarin is more of a string of small things than any easy to point to incidents, so casing him will take me more effort than I can give at this moment. But I think Tanarin has a lot more evidence against him than Shockwave for just lurking and sounding dumb a couple times.
OK I think Karn basically summed up what I was just thinking, but here are a few more of my thoughts:
What makes you think that people have forgotten about Day 1? I mean last I checked he has had a wagon to L-2 not once... but TWICE this game. That clearly shows that people have not forgotten about Iso or what happened yesterday. You also imply that all Iso gambits are scum gambits, of which we know is clearly NOT the case.
Not going to speak too much about myself as I already said my piece. I will say though that you really need to follow your own advice and show your work as opposed to getting lazy.
I also agree that there is likely more evidence for a case against me than shock, but then again that isn't too hard considering I have posted way more than shock has. That is like saying it rains more in Seattle than in Death Valley. Does not mean what has or has not been said by shock is or is not scummy. To say otherwise is discrediting another huge wagon we have had.
So what would your response be if you replaced in at L-2 and found other people more scummy? I really don't see how "I'm not scum, but these guys are" is an alignment indicative statement.
I will post more cases and analysis. I just focused on catching up quickly since there is a looming deadline instead of posting walls of text as I did so. I also expected more direct questions about it than instant votes. Like Bolly's question about my stance on Karn.
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An accurate description of myself:
Quote from Megiddo »
You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
Why do you say there's little reason for town gambits in this setup, Asenion? I suppose I should ask, what sort of idea are you thinking about when you say gambit?
OOG: Hey Iso what do you think of JAR's sig? I just noticed it, and it makes me think back to basic...52 maybe? somewhere around there.
I want to just to say for the record that there no hidden clues/messages in my signature. It's just a sig.
I respond to everything else later.
There's a game where Iso would not let up on someone and lynched them for having a very similar sig.
He was insufferable when it turned out true. I was very nearly lynched because I didn't believe it. Luckily I was the vig and turned the info around and correctly vigged Night 1.
Iso may have bad memories of the game because 1. I shot him and 2. I misvigged and mislynched from then on, ending up in lylo. We only won because the final scum botched his claim.
OOG: Hey Iso what do you think of JAR's sig? I just noticed it, and it makes me think back to basic...52 maybe? somewhere around there.
I want to just to say for the record that there no hidden clues/messages in my signature. It's just a sig.
I respond to everything else later.
There's a game where Iso would not let up on someone and lynched them for having a very similar sig.
He was insufferable when it turned out true. I was very nearly lynched because I didn't believe it. Luckily I was the vig and turned the info around and correctly vigged Night 1.
Iso may have bad memories of the game because 1. I shot him and 2. I misvigged and mislynched from then on, ending up in lylo. We only won because the final scum botched his claim.
So are you implying that since Iso isn't pushing that angle here after being successful and insufferable about it in the past that JAR and Iso are scumbuddies?
Man, I've still got this hunch that Tanarin is a pope, despite me liking his posts lately.
I really felt like I had that conviction on Tanarin early game, where I never really had that fire against Kamikaze but we lynched Kami anyway because there was more "regularly scummy" points against Kami, but not really much natural feeling.
The gambit in question is Iso setting himself up to fail in a way that JeY would notice, defeating the arguments, playing stupid, and then being emotionally manipulative to "clear" himself based on "bad play lately". This sequence of events has a very Iso flavor to them. Town don't need to try so hard to look stupid early this game because the Scum can't kill us and there are no hidden roles to affect behavior. Between those two aspects I can't imagine why Town need to run gambits.
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An accurate description of myself:
Quote from Megiddo »
You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
I like this idea. I'm going to copy/paste the player list then cross off who I think can't be a pope (or at least is extremely unlikely).
1. Bolly
2. iRebel
3. Iso
4. JeY k
5. JosephAloisiusRatzinger
6. Niv (r. Nachomamma8)
7. Asenion (r. Shockwave07)
8. Sir Karn
9. Tanarin
10. Void
11. Wheat_Grinder
List with only scumspects:
1. Bolly
2. iRebel
3. Iso
4. JeY k
5. JosephAloisiusRatzinger
7. Asenion (r. Shockwave07)
9. Tanarin
10. Void
Great. I eliminated 3 options, including myself.
I feel like Bolly and Void are close to being able to be crossed off, but aren't quite there.
iRebel would have been crossed off if I made this list like a week ago, but I remember someone pointing something out something about him recently and me thinking "oh, that seems true."
I've also felt like JeY has been townier toDay, but yesterDay was pretty atrocious and there's still something here or there that makes me feel like she's scum. But then I think that she's still posting big posts relatively frequently, and I'm not sure that she would have actually held up like this if she was a pope after all the pressure she got Day 1. She feels like the type of person that would have just cracked (correct me if I'm wrong, since I've never played with scumJeY before, but that's just the general feeling I get from her personality).
So I guess if I wanted to be a bit more relaxed with my list, I'd go with:
3. Iso
5. JosephAloisiusRatzinger
7. Asenion (r. Shockwave07)
9. Tanarin
Iso's play has been consistently scummy throughout the game with a townie post only sprinkled in on occasion. I've had large strokes of times I thought I had brilliantly figured it out multiple times this game, and Iso has been on both sides of the spectrum.
JAR has done literally nothing significant all game and whoever's gimmick he is - if town - should feel bad about their play this game because it sucks.
Asenion was preceded by Shockwave who was barely existent, and Asenion has come in with some very questionable posts, some of which were outright scummy. I think this is our surest bet right now.
Tanarin was my first scum read, and I still stand by my initial vote to some degree. His play has been much townier toDay, and even towards the latter parts of Day 1, but his early play, along with a line or two that stands out as scummy here and there within a generally townie post, still leave me with this feeling that Tanarin is the scum we are looking for.
Really Karn? Outright scummy? Please quote one place where I was "outright scummy" from your perspective. The best you can call me on so far is posting my opinions without supporting evidence after a quick read through the game.
Rest of your list is pretty similar to mine, although I like Bolly more than you and WG less. I even agree with you about Shockwave until the point where I replaced in.
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An accurate description of myself:
Quote from Megiddo »
You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
Today is looking like the lynch is between myself, Iso and Asenion (as of now). If Iso are Asenion are to be lynched, I gladly volunteer to be the hammer. The way I see it, odds are one if not both of them have some sort of saint points on them, and by me hammering them, that also eliminates myself from the suspect pool (And also denies a target to scum should I somehow not be the lynch today.) Do note, I am not completely sold on Asenion being scum here, but I will do whatever I can to not only clear my name, but also eliminate any distraction I will be in coming days.
Should I be the lynch however, I do request Iso is the hammer on me. Since he seems confident to lead a wagon on me, he should GLADLY want to hammer me if he feels I am scum, as no harm will come to him. I will let the town decide the L-1 spot. It also provides a chance to eliminate another scummy looking player from the pool should I have any points on myself.
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That's literally what you just said you're doing, though. You're voting me because you claim you can't read me, and basically because other people are voting me. That's pretty much the definition of a policy vote.
I don't expect you to be honest if you're scum.
I mean, I'd like to, but jfc look at the horrid votes on my wagon.
probably your mom.
You, for Shockwave's play, Tanarin, for his 180 on me, and Wheat, for "forgetting" Day 1.
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2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Iso, I expect more of you than wanting to lynch me just for not having much activity on Day 1.
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ONLY CENTRIPETAL FORCE
Indeed.
Sorta? I think Sir Karn believes it, though.
I did not forget what I did Day 1.
You seem to, though. The reason I got off the Iso train was because you suddenly turned into your old self.
I didn't notice this at first.
If you mind a bit of arrogance, it'd be because of me. I know to take Jey's intuition seriously and I'm also not too shabby at spinning bull***** to get people lynched.
When has this never been the case? A wise man doesn't plan, he steers.
I misplaced my steering wheel, but oh the things you can do with a little bit of rope and a ten foot pole.
I disagree that all the votes are awful (certainly not all of them are scummy), but Tanarin's vote is indeed crappy, especially his reaction on being caught by it. "Oh well thoughts change"...that's true but not really applicable here.
Unvote, Vote: Tanarin
All of it. I don't feel any of it made him scum.
Welcome to being town, you're one of the few who actually thought critically about what I was doing.
It's the sound of babies larding.
It's what happens when you stick your hand in a toilet plunger.
It's sorta like what would happen if Moses had a nice sit-down chat with the Beatles.
I made it up because it sounded nice but means nothing.
I'd lynch Tanarin if we want to. I wouldn't count Iso off scum even if Tanarin flips scum though.
I think this setup would be fun when the player base actual gives a ***** about the game.
I never like defeatist posts. I REALLY never like posts that talk about the next lynch before the current one is decided.
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@karn: Why not vote me if you think I am scum? Not like there are a lot of votes on me ATM.
@Asenion: I just answered this question for Karn, but to repeat:
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Holy ****. Why do people ask this question.
I see this question in just about every damn game, and the answer is so obvious.
I have more than one scum read, but only one vote.
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Let's do this, men. The time for idleness is over, get going
I would absolutely love to see you justify a Void scum read.
Agreed.
There's more to it than that. If you plan on reading the game, you'll find my case eventually.
Agreed.
iRebel's probably town, even in spite of what you voted him for. Tanarin's scumbuddy is still probably Asenion or you, given the way you're flopping around like a mackerel with your votes. "Vote Iso! NO WAIT VOTE TO CREATE A COUNTERWAGON"
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
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{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Other than deciding the hammer and maybe the L-1 voter, I don't think we should be arranging the wagon. It gives too much squirming room for scum to maneuver. Their only real power this game is making sure the right people die to saints.
We should also be aware that if Scum play correctly, we only get 4 mislynches this game. I'm not going to explain how to guarantee only 4 mislynches to the Town, but we should be aware that is what we are up against. We have to lynch correctly 2/5 of the remaining attempts.
Bolly is Town and I won't listen to anyone or anything that disputes that. A nice feature of this game is that the Town doesn't have to keep any secrets from each other since the Scum can't directly kill. If you find a Townie, you can actually protect them in this game.
Iso and Jey interactions don't sit well with me in the early game. I'm also not sure how Iso made it out of Day 1, and barring something changing my mind he will probably get my vote when I'm done reading. If Iso is scum, I think Jey has a high chance of being his buddy.
I want Karn to hammer toDay.
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This game is special too, because I don't see any reason to lie about anything. Scum have no power here. There are no PRs to manipulate or hide. This is a purely cooperation game where we have to find the scum before it's too late. (3 mislynches if things go badly, 4 mislynches under normal circumstances, 5 mislynches if the scum misplay)
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-Tanarin is town you bafoons. Stop this nonsense. I'm going to call it just like Kamikaze.
-Asenion's opening jig makes me cringe. If shockwave wasn't bad enough, this fake dude definitely needs a hangin'
-Asenion continues to drive me up a wall.
-Karn is actually one of the most annoying players in the universe, complains about lurking and then continues to do jack-all about anything. He should defo be L-1 or hammer but I have better fish to fry.
---
Thoughts: JAR and either Asenion or Iso is scum. I believe if Iso is town, he's definitely sainted and can kill the aforementioned suspects in one fell swoop, but I definitely lean more toward him just being scum.
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Tanarin, #367: Sure. Though just to clarify, not having strong convictions doesn’t mean I don’t have scumspects. This list after catching up.
I Refuse to Lynch:
Wheat: Has been asking good questions, follows up leads. His pressure/case on Jey was well written to me and I don’t think scum!wheat would have backed off at the end the way he did.
Sir Karn: I’ve gotten extremely strong Iso’s Inflammable Mafia vibes from Karn, and I’ve seen nothing to persuade me he is not town.
Niv: See Day 1.
Bolly: His posts have generally been full of decent content; is scum hunting.
I’d rather not lynch:
Iso: None of the arguments presented against Iso hold much water in my opinion, and I’m not willing to accept meta arguments. I’d rather deal with Iso via POE as the game progresses.
Void: Am willing to accept Iso’s read on Void as I haven’t seen him been wrong yet.
JeY K: I commented on this Day 1, but I’ll reiterate: There’s NO reason scum!JeY, or scum!X, would continue to pour interactions all over the thread if caught as scum. It doesn’t make any sense.
I’m okay lynching:
Tanarin: I had Tanarin as Town yesterday, but his vote on Iso toDay was terrible, and I’m not liking his reasoning for the change of heart. POE plays a role here as I have four people I currently am refusing to lynch, and an additional three I like more than Tanarin currently.
I want to lynch:
JAR: I thought he was scum Day 1, his play today has been awful (like that vote). Bolly’s made good points against him
Null: Asenion: Want to give this slot a chance to catch up and contribute before defining a stance. Slot was originally on the scum side for lurking.
Karn, #370: JAR has acted scummy. Does that count?
JAR, #374: Awful vote. Awful awful awful.
I am not a fan of Tanarin’s vote on Iso at all, and agree with Iso’s reasoning thus far.
I disagree with Iso that Wheat is scum — I understand where Wheat is coming from re: being on, then off, then on Iso’s wagon again, and it adds to Wheat being town in my book. A question for others: Has Wheat pushed through an Iso lynch before? And if so, what game(s)?
Bolly, #408: Like it. Like it a lot.
Tanarin, #411: Changing your opinion isn’t scummy. Your reason aren’t that impressive, however. Since you wanted a T/S list from me, return the favour and give me your full case and explanation on Iso.
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UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls
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Here are my opinions:
Willing to bet the game on these 3 being town: Void, Niv, Bolly
FOS: Tanarin, Sir Karn
Hammer: Karn
L-1: Jey, Tanarin, or choice of Iso
Will lynch toDay: Iso, Tanarin
Vote Iso
If I find motivation, I would like to explain more in depth my thoughts on the Day 1 wagon and what it means about alignments. I think that topic is ripe for discussion. WG, iRebel, and JAR are all people I would like to interact with more.
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Why do you believe iRebel to be town? I won't accept you saying "because someone else is more likely to be scum". That logic would be particularly poor in this setup.
In regards to vote flopping: You really haven't played with me in awhile, have you? That's one of my favorite mafia pastimes.
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#425, Asenion: Why are you suspicious of Karn? I definitely want to hear your thoughts and analysis of the Day 1 wagon.
Why Jey on the L1 slot? I’m firmly reading her as Town after her day one meltdown.
UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls
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Vote: Asenion
iRebel, which of Wheat's posts did you want me to talk to you about?
(6 to lynch)
Asenion - 3 (Niv, JeY k, Sir Karn)
Iso - 3 (Tanarin, JAR, Asenion)
Tanarin - 2 (Iso, Wheat_Grinder)
JAR - 1 (Bolly)
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hello, have you read katawa shoujo
Why is there an Asenion/Iso dichotomy in your mind?
Why would you like to interact with them, specifically? Also, please do RE: explanations and wagon analyses.
eh
All of his posts (sans the one you voted him for) seem townie to me. Much like he can't see why you're scum, I can't see what would make him scum.
And...that makes it not scummy?
Exactly what kind of response did you expect in a 5-hour period between these posts? Especially in such a lurksack game?
enlighten me
-
I'll happily hammer Tanarin or Asenion, whichever we lynch.
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2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Hmmm. I'll have to look a bit deeper at him.
I do it often as both alignments, you tell me.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
though I do have a question for him: in a vaccume, what would your read be on your predecessor. if you had just replaced into this game for someone else, who was town, would you be voting shockwave? what's your thoughts there, I'd like to get at least some sort of mindset from you regarding your predecessor.
from skimming the day, I'm finding myself largley in agreement with iRebel's assessments, epically the one on Tan. if I get time in the next week, I'll look back more, and cement this but I'm thinking this may be where we go today.
I'll get more into the thread probally tommorrow. I have another post at about 2000 words right now, for something else, and it's no where near done........
also /tired.
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Suspicious is probably the perfect word here. I don't directly think he's scum and it would take convincing to get me to vote for him, but I want him to put his money where his mouth is and hammer any wagons he votes for. In hindsight, I don't actually want him to be forced to hammer a wagon he wouldn't vote on his own. Or in other words, Karn has been a loudmouth this game and I want him to put up or shut up. Scum have the best reasons ever to be leaders in this set-up.
@Iso: I haven't read Katawa, but regardless of my exaggeration I think there is a higher chance of Jey buddying you for out of game reasons and it not being a direct scumtell than if Jey were a random person. I'm still considering it, but not quite on the "if Iso flips scum immediately lynch Jey" level. As for the people I hope to specifically interact with more, it's because they didn't leave any impact on me while I was reading the game. They are basically my mixed/null tells right now and I want to narrow them down by conversing with them. I think in this game in particular null tells are the most dangerous thing.
@Niv: Re: Shockwave: I think Shockwave was monumentally unimpressive Day 1 and said a couple of stupid things. I would probably have him leaning scum and needing more interaction if I replaced in as someone else right now. I would also mark him as lynch bait for the next time I needed to pull pressure off a lynch that I didn't want to happen.
@Bolly: Yes, I had forgotten. That was such a great game except for the part where we somehow didn't actually win. It was one of my best analytic games because it was one of the first times I was Vanilla Town and really stepped into the Leadership and Analysis role. If I recall, I helped lead us to successful lynches for the rest of the game after you saved me. And then we lost anyway because the Town couldn't ever win in that game even with no mislynches unless the enemy factions crosskilled or we got a lucky Doc shot. #Alsostillbitter
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Specifically Karn has had a lot of strong opinions and a lack of analysis to back them up. Show your work in this game people - there is no Night kill to fear. I know I am being a bit of a hypocrite by saying that, but I'm going to attempt to show as much of my work as I can and I'll explain how I come to conclusions going forward.
And Shockwave shouldn't be near the top of anyone's scumlists. How did everyone just forget Iso's implosion under pressure Yesterday or his multiple out of character posts? When Iso posts strangely, it means he is gambiting and I've never seen an Iso gambit end well for the Town. Tanarin is more of a string of small things than any easy to point to incidents, so casing him will take me more effort than I can give at this moment. But I think Tanarin has a lot more evidence against him than Shockwave for just lurking and sounding dumb a couple times.
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And then the Borg still won.
So basically, you're talking out of your ass.
Have you ever read Ozone Underground?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
And no, I haven't read Ozone Underground. Note the phrasing that I've never seen an Iso gambit end well for Town. I'm sure you can quote me some game some time where you gambited hard to help the Town. But I've been burned by you pretending to be stupid or pretending to miss things to get advantage as scum. I wouldn't put it past you to try and emotionally manipulate us.
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"Shockwave (aka ME) shouldn't be a scumread by anyone! I mean, if you want proof for that...
QUICK LOOK OVER HERE! TWO SCUMMY PEOPLE THAT I HAVEN'T CASED!"
good show m8. get lynched.
OK I think Karn basically summed up what I was just thinking, but here are a few more of my thoughts:
What makes you think that people have forgotten about Day 1? I mean last I checked he has had a wagon to L-2 not once... but TWICE this game. That clearly shows that people have not forgotten about Iso or what happened yesterday. You also imply that all Iso gambits are scum gambits, of which we know is clearly NOT the case.
Not going to speak too much about myself as I already said my piece. I will say though that you really need to follow your own advice and show your work as opposed to getting lazy.
I also agree that there is likely more evidence for a case against me than shock, but then again that isn't too hard considering I have posted way more than shock has. That is like saying it rains more in Seattle than in Death Valley. Does not mean what has or has not been said by shock is or is not scummy. To say otherwise is discrediting another huge wagon we have had.
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I will post more cases and analysis. I just focused on catching up quickly since there is a looming deadline instead of posting walls of text as I did so. I also expected more direct questions about it than instant votes. Like Bolly's question about my stance on Karn.
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There's very little reason for Town gambits in this open set-up.
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There's a game where Iso would not let up on someone and lynched them for having a very similar sig.
He was insufferable when it turned out true. I was very nearly lynched because I didn't believe it. Luckily I was the vig and turned the info around and correctly vigged Night 1.
Iso may have bad memories of the game because 1. I shot him and 2. I misvigged and mislynched from then on, ending up in lylo. We only won because the final scum botched his claim.
So are you implying that since Iso isn't pushing that angle here after being successful and insufferable about it in the past that JAR and Iso are scumbuddies?
I really felt like I had that conviction on Tanarin early game, where I never really had that fire against Kamikaze but we lynched Kami anyway because there was more "regularly scummy" points against Kami, but not really much natural feeling.
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1. Bolly
2. iRebel
3. Iso
4. JeY k
5. JosephAloisiusRatzinger
6. Niv (r. Nachomamma8)
7. Asenion (r. Shockwave07)
8. Sir Karn
9. Tanarin
10. Void
11. Wheat_Grinder
List with only scumspects:
1. Bolly
2. iRebel
3. Iso
4. JeY k
5. JosephAloisiusRatzinger
7. Asenion (r. Shockwave07)
9. Tanarin
10. Void
Great. I eliminated 3 options, including myself.
I feel like Bolly and Void are close to being able to be crossed off, but aren't quite there.
iRebel would have been crossed off if I made this list like a week ago, but I remember someone pointing something out something about him recently and me thinking "oh, that seems true."
I've also felt like JeY has been townier toDay, but yesterDay was pretty atrocious and there's still something here or there that makes me feel like she's scum. But then I think that she's still posting big posts relatively frequently, and I'm not sure that she would have actually held up like this if she was a pope after all the pressure she got Day 1. She feels like the type of person that would have just cracked (correct me if I'm wrong, since I've never played with scumJeY before, but that's just the general feeling I get from her personality).
So I guess if I wanted to be a bit more relaxed with my list, I'd go with:
3. Iso
5. JosephAloisiusRatzinger
7. Asenion (r. Shockwave07)
9. Tanarin
Iso's play has been consistently scummy throughout the game with a townie post only sprinkled in on occasion. I've had large strokes of times I thought I had brilliantly figured it out multiple times this game, and Iso has been on both sides of the spectrum.
JAR has done literally nothing significant all game and whoever's gimmick he is - if town - should feel bad about their play this game because it sucks.
Asenion was preceded by Shockwave who was barely existent, and Asenion has come in with some very questionable posts, some of which were outright scummy. I think this is our surest bet right now.
Tanarin was my first scum read, and I still stand by my initial vote to some degree. His play has been much townier toDay, and even towards the latter parts of Day 1, but his early play, along with a line or two that stands out as scummy here and there within a generally townie post, still leave me with this feeling that Tanarin is the scum we are looking for.
Rest of your list is pretty similar to mine, although I like Bolly more than you and WG less. I even agree with you about Shockwave until the point where I replaced in.
My cube: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/9981
Today is looking like the lynch is between myself, Iso and Asenion (as of now). If Iso are Asenion are to be lynched, I gladly volunteer to be the hammer. The way I see it, odds are one if not both of them have some sort of saint points on them, and by me hammering them, that also eliminates myself from the suspect pool (And also denies a target to scum should I somehow not be the lynch today.) Do note, I am not completely sold on Asenion being scum here, but I will do whatever I can to not only clear my name, but also eliminate any distraction I will be in coming days.
Should I be the lynch however, I do request Iso is the hammer on me. Since he seems confident to lead a wagon on me, he should GLADLY want to hammer me if he feels I am scum, as no harm will come to him. I will let the town decide the L-1 spot. It also provides a chance to eliminate another scummy looking player from the pool should I have any points on myself.
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if you were a pope, who would you have sainted night 2? I would have double sainted shockwave.
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