Moving onto Jey's case in a moment but I'd like to EBWODP my answer to prodding people: Part of it is the playerbase this game. You can catch Void, Jey can catch you and others, etc. I was relying on that until Jey turned out scum.
Post 32: Wastes no time calling Iso scum, and votes him. This is okay. This is just fine.
Post 37: "Maybe I'm not the best judge of Karn because I have not been in a game with Scum!Karn so forget what I said about him; but from solely my experience he looks like he's doing his town thing @_@" This isn't how you (specifically you) play mafia.
Post 42: "But gosh darn if I ever betray my intuition ever again and I was wrong to do so I'm going to be really mad." Posting this for later use, because this is how you (specifically you) play mafia.
Post 44: "Thinking back, re-reading the games didn't give me much -evidence- to post per se, but it refreshed my feelings from those games. I definitely feel like Katawa Shoujo Iso is playing this game, regardless if I can prove it or not =\ Now, where's my vig shot... =_="
This is the post I expect from town!jey
Post 55-56: nothing important
Post 61: "The point being, I was making a case but then I thought of how silly people might think it sounded. It wasn't about being confident in me, it was being not confident about whether this inexpressible feeling I'm trying to convey through what I realized after posting seemed like poor examples. It felt like it was good enough at the time but after a few minutes I was like "...Iso's just going to tear this apart and throw this in my face" And then you did but not very well 0.o"
This is your actions going against your words. You know Iso is scum, you know it in your bones. You know I'm sitting here gunning for Iso with half the rest of the town and you know that I know how good your gut is. You don't want to make a case because you're afraid of it looking silly? No, I don't buy it.
Post 75: Suddenly Jey wants to info lynch which is unlike her. She does not info lynch, she builds intuition and lynches from that.
Post 76: "Definitely not happy about lynching Iso this soon though. Unvote FoS: Iso"
This is the one that really does it. Jey is suddenly not wanting to lynch Iso, despite thinking Iso is scum. Again, Jey doesn't really get much from info lynches, and if she thinks Iso is scum, she wouldn't betray that. Her actions here (unvoting Iso for the purposes of an info lynch) don't match what she says (Iso is scum 100%) and how she normally plays (info lynches aren't as useful as intuition)
Post 94: "@Wheat: I think he's scum. My uncertainty is in my ability to prove it. I'm willing to hold off on Iso though, since I don't need to convince myself of anything else." this is not how you play mafia
Post106: "@The WHEAT wheat WhEaT: I just said this, but I don't need Iso lynched right this minute. I went after him and built momentum, yes it was faster than I expected, but I've already said I'm not ready toe nd the day yet. We could get so much more information from wagons if we encourage more discussion. I already proclaimed my thoughts, stated my rather lame set of evidence, and comissioned my thoughts on Iso's play, what more do I need? I'm convinced I've found scum, but I want there to be more information to analyze from the lynch, and how would I get that from actively pursuing him even further? I honestly don't knwo what you're trying to ask here."
but this isn't how you play mafia
I'm going to keep repeating myself from here on out so I'm only going to quote a few more from here on out.
Post 124: "[But if you want a real reply, Look: I posted what I wrote anyway. Zero hesitation. I was just posting my honest thoughts. If I'm afraid of anything, it's scum!Iso getting me mislynched early. Hindsight, why should I be worried of that? Still, lol.]"
This is another example of your actions of not wanting Iso lynched immediately being at odds with your talk of being afraid of Iso getting you lynched.
Post 148: "Looks to me like they're just picking easy cases, I wouldn't clear them just yet, but the way they're saying things doesn't rub me the wrong way really but I'm not getting any intuitive reads toward either side of the scale. My playing is horrid so of course I'm going to be attacked, not going to say they're scum because they're after me." This makes my skin crawl with how bad it is but it's not actually scummy the more I think about it.
#121: Wheat seems very insistent that one of Jey and Iso are scum. I'm not so sure.
I laughed because you came to the conclusion that Jey is scum.
The Wheat/Jey interaction is interesting and it's an argument that I think Wheat is winning.
Wheat: if you still believe in your dichotomy, do you think that Iso is town?
Jey: if you still think that Iso is scum, which is the impression I get, why are you not voting for him, and instead voting for the very person he is voting for? It makes no sense to me. Unvote; Vote Jey.
Yes, ever since he called every post I have made terrible. I also still believe in the dichotomy.
Now, I have a question in return. What exactly is interesting about my interactions with Jey?
I'm reaching that point where there's been two weeks and no lynch and I find myself unable to focus on anything in this game. I prefer an Iso or Void lynch but you know what but if anyone gets to L-1 I might just hammer out of boredom.
To be fair, you have not contributed that much. So I find it real funny that you of all people are complaining about boredom and lack of focus. Also don't like how you would hammer out of boredom when we have a pretty good use for the hammer vote.
Anyway, consider me sold on JeYk. Still think Kami's post/T/S list is horrible and would love to see him be the hammer though.
And which do you think is more likely for the latter?
Treat me more like a @#$%ing child.
Unvote
Vote: Iso
Probably not moving this for quite a while now. You're definitely scum.
---
And then I read wheat's post. I have to be the #1 most misinterpreted mafia player on this goddamn planet. No wonder I have OCD with explanations.
Wheat said: "This is your actions going against your words. You know Iso is scum, you know it in your bones. You know I'm sitting here gunning for Iso with half the rest of the town and you know that I know how good your gut is. You don't want to make a case because you're afraid of it looking silly? No, I don't buy it."
I MADE THE CASE. ARE YOU KIDDING ME!? I was just being brutally honest, but if you look at this thread, I DID MAKE THE CASE. I didn't post "I don't want to make this case" and then after being pressured posted it anyway, NO!! I POSTED IT RIGHT AWAY!!
I was confident I would find something really good to smother in Iso's smug face, but then when I actually dug through the threads and tried to compile something, it seemed to not pull together as well as I thought it would. So, my initial thought was "Wow this is actually kind of dumb, why would anyone consider this worthwhile information? Well, I might as well try"
So, based on that thought, I put together what i found, AND I MADE THE CASE. Except, I already knew that it seemed pretty dumb, and LOOK WHAT HAPPENED. SEVERAL PEOPLE CONSIDERED IT WEAK/WHATEVER. It was the god damn truth. But you know what? I posted it, and I posted it right away, despite ANYTHING.
Wanna know how my intuition works? It just does - when I was making the case, my intuition said "this is going to suck major ass" AND LOOK, IT DID. But I was compelled to see if I could make it work anyway, and it didn't. I still know, or at least, I had a feeling that Iso was definitely scum, but I had nothing else to pin to him. So what do I do? All I have left is to sit there and say "it's jsut my intuition". Well, I already did that. WELP I THINK ISO'S SCUM BUT I HAVE NOTHING ELSE LOL SORRY GUYS ALL YOU HAVE THIS PATHETIC METADATA.
This really pisses me off. My actions are solid with my words because everything I thought and everything I did lined up perfectly. I admitted that I didn't think it turned out as I initially predicted, but I still wanted to try. How the @#$% does that not line up with anything?
"You don't want to make a case because you're afraid of it looking silly? No, I don't buy it."
I DID WANT TO MAKE THE CASE. I just had a feeling that it sucked. That's exactly what happened. You're misinterpreting literally everything. My god one of my worst pet peeves is blatant misrep/misundertanding.
Wheat said: "This is the one that really does it. Jey is suddenly not wanting to lynch Iso"
ARE YOU KIDDING ME. ARE YOU SERIOUSLY KIDDING ME. Nowhere in this entire goddamn topic will you find me saying "I don't want to lynch Iso anymore". Get it together. I literally said "not happy about lynching iso this soon". You know what that means?
Well, I'll tell you what it DOESN'T mean: It DOES NOT mean that I have GIVEN UP on lynching Iso. Not in the @#$%ing slightest. It was -much too soon- at -that point in time- to go through with a lynch. I was still VERY MUCH inclined to lynch Iso, but I wanted some more conversation to happen first.
Hey Wheat, how many scum are in this game? Two. How many people is Iso? One. What's Two minus One? One. THERE'S STILL ONE SCUM TO CATCH. Jesus Christ, give me a break about this 'not wanting to lynch iso' bullcrap.
Wheat said: "Again, Jey doesn't really get much from info lynches, and if she thinks Iso is scum, she wouldn't betray that. Her actions here (unvoting Iso for the purposes of an info lynch)..."
Are you @#$%ing kidding me? I wasn't pursuing an info lynch, I was asking a goddamn hypothetical question. You need to learn how to read because nowhere does it say that I want to lynch anyone else. I was getting people to talk so I could see some more conversation. I didn't give a @#$% about actually lynching in that hypothetical situation. There is zero misalignment - I can't make any judgments if I don't see any god damn conversation worth judging. NOTE: THERE WAS STILL ONE SCUM TO CATCH AT THIS POINT.
Wheat said: "Post 94: "@Wheat: I think he's scum. My uncertainty is in my ability to prove it. I'm willing to hold off on Iso though, since I don't need to convince myself of anything else." this is not how you play mafia"
TIL.
Wheat said: "but this isn't how you play mafia"
T. I. L.
Yes, keeping telling an inexperienced player who sucks at actual mafia that what they're doing isn't how they play mafia and USE THAT TO BASE YOUR READ OF MY ALIGNMENT ON. Since you're so geared on me playing strictly intuition, then what the @#$% does it matter how I play? Seriously.
Wheat said: "This is another example of your actions of not wanting Iso lynched immediately being at odds with your talk of being afraid of Iso getting you lynched."
So @#$%ing shoot me. I said exactly why I didn't want Iso lynched -right away- and after what Iso put me through earlier (you wouldn't know) I have a good reason to be afraid.
Here's why: so one day I brought up a mafia web app called Town of Salem, so I thought Iso and I could derp around a bit.
First game; he's an executioner, a neutral who's win condition is to get a certain town player killed. Guess who has to die to fulfill his win condition. Me. Guess who spammed D1 chat until I got lynched: Iso. so, I died day 1. Whatever.
Second Game; died N1 but that wasn't primarily Iso's fault, but I was starting to get irritated that I wasn't able to actually play these mafia games due to dying so early.
Third game; I'm town doctor, Iso is a neutral serial killer. He kills me Night 0 (there's one night phase before the first day, kind of like this game). I get legitimately upset and stop playing.
Iso can confirm all of this.
I'm not mad anymore, but I'm wary. Especially since I have a scumread on him now. It would be in his win condition to have me dead so getting lynched D1 wouldn't be beyond him. I would hate him forever for it, but it would be fair.
I didn't want to have to bring this up, but you either are ignorant to the hints I've dropped all game about outside issues, cannot read, or are desperate to paint me as scum. IDC.
---
Oh wow getting killed D1 again. @#$% this game.
(ftr Iso this one's my fault so I wouldn't be mad at you.)
Unfortunately I'm too mad to go through this entire thread again and do a 'final dying town thoughts' post so if you want that then wait on hammering me please.
Wheat metas me and everyone loses their minds. Not to mention the case is based on misinterpreting -everything- I've posted and statements of 'that's not how you play mafia'.
I strongly dislike this wagon. Wheat's case is solely based on meta and has a key misrepresentation - he asserts that JeY unvoted Iso because she wants an info lynch. That's clearly not why JeY unvoted Iso, and at no point did she push an info lynch.
I am not going to be voting JeY, and if the rest of you are so determined to lynch her, I want Wheat on the hammer.
k, so where I left off: pages 4/5, still typing more up, but just posting now, in case I fall asleap at my computer.
Void's post here feels way off base, the defence of karn is completely unnecessary, and awkward. that and if ignoring questions is someone's meta, we should lynch them untill it isn't part of their meta. that, and the fact that I just skimmed back, and Wheat never unvoted. the way that post was made, just doesn't seem genuine, espicially the part with the misrep.
I do follow this line of thinking as well. but I kinda wrote it off as null, since I've seen more than enough town and scum do things similar to this. while the action taken isn't an proper one, I don't believe it's a tell under generic circumstances.
Karn's posts of content around here actually really do feel like they come from a town mindset. all of them contain sound logic on paper, I still disagree with the way he went about the opener, but I think that's a bit more of a theory disagreement than town/scum anything. I don't think however the connections are as strong as karn believes them to be. I think alot of this case is indirectly karn justifying his first vote again. you're on Kamikazi for calling you out, and indirectly defending tan, but It really was a direct difference, and called you out for being a hypocrite all the same. I really do however think at this point your intentions are good, just your methods are suspect in this situation. that and at the end, that Iso link seems flimsier than parchment paper.
this however is a really good point by kami. the fact that karn later ignores it, as he seems to just do, really just makes me want to lynch him now, almost on policy. but policy lynches are bad, ok? but seriously, why does karn ignore questions like this, it actually was a pretty stong question, does he want to avoid answering anything he doesn't have an answer that's good for?
I'm really not likeing one line in this post by Jey " If my voice means anything on the matter I think I'd prefer that one cannot vote for themselves in this setup. The town gets an advantage of this works out the way JAR put it, but that just seems silly to me." was what was said. while I agree that the game should be balanced, or at least one side shouldn't get an unfair advantage over the other, the way this was worded just seems really off to me. doesn't feel like it came from a townie thinking the game was unbalanced, but from a pope, complaining that the game shouldn't be imbalanced.
@Void: you say here that that karn is unreadable day one, but strong as town lategame, how do you propose that we then discern town karn from scum karn? by your logic, is a scum karn not nearly as terrifying as the town karn is strong? at what point can we start reading him, and does he encounter the Azrael problem, where if he's alive at endgame, you should just policy lynch him? I don't disagree that you shouldn't be voting wheat right now, but is karn really that good that you'll unvote on his word alone?
this post is not a town post. if you had worded your dislike of the self vote strat like that in your last post, it wouldn't have been scummy. you went out of your way to talk about how it was the town that was getting the unfair end. the meaning was fair, but the wording screamed "I'M A POPE" that and the second part, if you've found scum, you lynch them. end of story. you don't let scum live, the day ends. it's the way mafia works.
Karn ignores other questions to respond here. seems off, but apparently that's "just karn"
town post while I'm not sold on the theory, it feels as though a legitimate attempt to figure the game out.
Kami's response to it however comes from a mindset that doesn't make sense at all. he implies that we won't be reevaluating our reads. and if a scum slips past everyone's reads and makes it to endgame, isn't that when you say gg? like, this is how every game is played. when scum win it's because they made it to endgame appearing as town. even if we didn;t do this we still lose in this fashion. so, the only good thing that can come of your post is to discourage people out of townreads in general, which is not a town mindset imo, regardless of the accuracy of tan's plan.
page 6 go. feel like there wasn't much of anything posted to respond to on this page, but I'm falling asleap again, and lets stop posting before I get incoherent tonight.
No, actually, it would make the scum job much easier. Scum don't want to tuck saint points away, they want to put them on people who are going to get lynched. The worst case for scum is that they place all their saint points on people who never get lynched. If we mark some people as town explicitly, the scum know not to bother putting saint points on them.
the problem that would then arise though, for the popes, is that they would need to find themselves on the wagons too, killing them selfs if the strat is played properly. though I think at this point though, Tan's plan can be summed up as "if the town figures out who's scum, and who isn't, town wins" which is basically like saying that this is still a game of mafia. and the fact that this is being missed is just odd all around.
this post on the whole puts JAR, pretty well into my town pool. alot of solid questions, and imput into the game. I however don't see how void intrepted any of that as defending Jey. I'm torn on void atm, which is weird, I'm not getting a null read on him, but an alternating read on him, where some post seem just so town, yet other posts scream scum. not sure I'll ever be able to figure out where that line of thinking leads me, which is probally the best for my mental health.
@Shockwave: have you done anything useful this game? I just got this post and realized I can't think of anything of note that you've done all game.
JeY:okay? that's it? nothing more to say at all?
Looks to me like they're just picking easy cases, I wouldn't clear them just yet, but the way they're saying things doesn't rub me the wrong way really but I'm not getting any intuitive reads toward either side of the scale. My playing is horrid so of course I'm going to be attacked, not going to say they're scum because they're after me.
I'm not sure what meaning you were trying to convey here either, not sure if this was directed regarding me, or herself (JeY is female, yes? I think I've picked that one up)
iRebel is town. solid post, well placed vote on kami at this point. overall just a good post.
I follow the logic in this post by Tan, but I really don't like the veiled attack on karn contained within. I can't see a world where karn would make any of the case posts he did, on the same team as kami. the level of busing that was mentioned just blows my mind. and the way you phrase this in the vote for karn just feels really off to me.
looking at the last page after having posted, it looks like this game is close to lynch. I'll be fully caught up tomorrow, I have the day off, and fully intend to be up to date.
the problem that would then arise though, for the popes, is that they would need to find themselves on the wagons too, killing them selfs if the strat is played properly. though I think at this point though, Tan's plan can be summed up as "if the town figures out who's scum, and who isn't, town wins" which is basically like saying that this is still a game of mafia. and the fact that this is being missed is just odd all around.
First of all, the popes don't have to be on the wagons if enough townies have wrong reads - and even if they are, they know exactly what positions are safe, so they can get on the wagon early enough to avoid death.
Second, if we could figure out instantly all the scum and town, yeah, that would be great. But that's not how the game works. We have to build up our evaluations and our level of confidence in our reads over time, and that is affected by who and what we analyze. And the public results of those analyses influence everyone else's actions. If you start by working your way through the scummiest, the game is going to play out differently than if you start by working your way through the towniest. The way in which you do that is part of your strategy. Tanarin wasn't saying "let's play mafia", he was proposing a particular strategy for playing mafia. And I think that strategy is a poor choice in this setup.
I'm really not likeing one line in this post by Jey " If my voice means anything on the matter I think I'd prefer that one cannot vote for themselves in this setup. The town gets an advantage of this works out the way JAR put it, but that just seems silly to me." was what was said. while I agree that the game should be balanced, or at least one side shouldn't get an unfair advantage over the other, the way this was worded just seems really off to me. doesn't feel like it came from a townie thinking the game was unbalanced, but from a pope, complaining that the game shouldn't be imbalanced.
There is no good way to put 'Even though this is a distinct advantage for town I like that it's not implemented' and still sound town. -shrug-. I thought that modifying my original statement would make it seem fake so even after I proofread I left it as-is.
this post is not a town post. if you had worded your dislike of the self vote strat like that in your last post, it wouldn't have been scummy. you went out of your way to talk about how it was the town that was getting the unfair end. the meaning was fair, but the wording screamed "I'M A POPE" that and the second part, if you've found scum, you lynch them. end of story. you don't let scum live, the day ends. it's the way mafia works.
And... the second explanation is not just an elaboration of 'silly'?
#StillNumber1MostMisrepp'dMafiaPlayerEver
And lynch them that shortly into the game? When I have zero other leads? Let me at least get other targets first for christ's sake.
I'm not sure what meaning you were trying to convey here either, not sure if this was directed regarding me, or herself (JeY is female, yes? I think I've picked that one up)
Little bit of both sweetie, The gist of that statement is "I have a null read on Niv; just being attacked for things I deserved to be attacked about doesn't provide anything meaningful" (Yes, I am female. Fun fact: I wasn't always female!)
First of all, the popes don't have to be on the wagons if enough townies have wrong reads - and even if they are, they know exactly what positions are safe, so they can get on the wagon early enough to avoid death.
Fun fact, not every single town player is sainted. They want all townies dead (to a point), it doesn't matter. I mean, maybe you weren't implying that they want to only get sainted players lynched, but it's the vibe I got from this statement. Just keep that in mind.
[quote from="Wheat_Grinder »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/outside-magic/mafia/561456-experiment-2-pope-mafia-game-thread-day-1?comment=230"]I laughed because you came to the conclusion that Jey is scum.
The post was a stream of consciousness. At the time I wasn't sure but like I said, it was Jey's vote for Shockwave that brought me to that conclusion.
Now, I have a question in return. What exactly is interesting about my interactions with Jey?
I should have said "interesting to me." It's interesting to me personally because it almost perfectly mirrors an interaction I experienced in a recent IRL game of Mafia between two really good players. It's been going on for pretty much the entire duration of the game, you've been pretty calm about it, while Jey's gotten really worked up and almost vitriolic (especially in #237). The same happened in the IRL game, and here's the kicker: in that game, both players were scum, but the town pretty much cleared the calmer player because of how they pushed the case on their scumbuddy. Surprise surprise, they survived until endgame and almost single-handedly won it for the scum.
What I took away from that game is that no-one can be cleared on reads alone, which applies very well to this setup in particular. It also means that if Jey flips scum I certainly won't take that to clear you as town.
I think that was the second time I have ever actually gotten mad at mafia. The first time was for the same exact reason, actually; I was getting misrep'd beyond belief in a decent chain of posts so I got sick of it. It's a pet peeve of mine.
And I know exactly why Wheat's misrepping me. He thinks I'm situated to a play style, that I'm no longer a learning mafia player and that I perfectly rely on my intuition for everything now, when he's blatantly wrong. This is only my 5th game of Mafia. That's probably less than 10% of the total games any of you have played. I'm still very much learning, and what I want to learn is how to actually catch scum because I'm so damn unsure of my intuition. I've doubted it every game and I'm continuing to doubt it from my nature. It's right; it's always right, but I'm always paranoid.
Wheat's misguided interpretation of my mindset and play style is what makes his entire dumb argument fall apart. He modded a game I played in and played in another with me, so he's definitely not correct in his set-in-stone interpretation of me. I may know him personally but I know for a fact he can't decipher my mafia play from that.
@Wheat; I'm not calling you bad, but I'm saying that you actually have no idea who I am, exactly ;\ And [redacted because it was a little mean and uncalled for but basically it boils down to 'your argument is bull-@#$%']
---
I decided that I'm doing my RP posts tonight. I'll do that re-read tomorrow.
Also there's a lot of red squiggles in my microsoft word from people spelling my name with a lowercase 'Y' ;\ not that you guys have to, I just find it interesting. (I know what you're going to say and Shutup Iso.)
Oops. This is what I get for not previewing - Kamikazi's blockquote is supposed to end where Niv's supposedly ends and Niv isn't supposed to be there - everything else proceeds normally.
Jey, you keep saying Wheat is misrepping you. How do you view his alignment after this case on you?
@Everyone: I do agree with Jey though that we need to get off our collective asses and either lynch Jey the proper way, or otherwise lynch someone. As of now, this can easily turn into Xymande if we are not careful and fail to pick up our slack.
So, let's get another firestarter while we wait on Wheat to decide if he is going to reply or not.
Who is everyone's top 3 candidates for scum right now?
My current list is Karn, Jey and Kami.
@Mod: Now I am sure at least one person is due for a prod, possibly 2. Prods please?
Actually it quite heavily depends on his response, so tomorrow I'll have to come up with a hypothetical post where what my thoughts would be if he ever replied a certain way in case I die before that happens.
As for now, due to the fact that I'm actually not dead yet, either the scum are already way ahead on my wagon or they're very, very apprehensive about my flip. Who's been missing inexplicably lately?
I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
And then I read wheat's post. I have to be the #1 most misinterpreted mafia player on this goddamn planet. No wonder I have OCD with explanations.
You see the thing with mafia is, there's at least one group who's always hiding what they really think and mean. Everything is open for interpretation.
Everyone else gets misinterpreted too, get used to it.
Wheat said: "This is your actions going against your words. You know Iso is scum, you know it in your bones. You know I'm sitting here gunning for Iso with half the rest of the town and you know that I know how good your gut is. You don't want to make a case because you're afraid of it looking silly? No, I don't buy it."
I MADE THE CASE. ARE YOU KIDDING ME!? I was just being brutally honest, but if you look at this thread, I DID MAKE THE CASE. I didn't post "I don't want to make this case" and then after being pressured posted it anyway, NO!! I POSTED IT RIGHT AWAY!!
I was confident I would find something really good to smother in Iso's smug face, but then when I actually dug through the threads and tried to compile something, it seemed to not pull together as well as I thought it would. So, my initial thought was "Wow this is actually kind of dumb, why would anyone consider this worthwhile information? Well, I might as well try"
So, based on that thought, I put together what i found, AND I MADE THE CASE. Except, I already knew that it seemed pretty dumb, and LOOK WHAT HAPPENED. SEVERAL PEOPLE CONSIDERED IT WEAK/WHATEVER. It was the god damn truth. But you know what? I posted it, and I posted it right away, despite ANYTHING.
Wanna know how my intuition works? It just does - when I was making the case, my intuition said "this is going to suck major ass" AND LOOK, IT DID. But I was compelled to see if I could make it work anyway, and it didn't. I still know, or at least, I had a feeling that Iso was definitely scum, but I had nothing else to pin to him. So what do I do? All I have left is to sit there and say "it's jsut my intuition". Well, I already did that. WELP I THINK ISO'S SCUM BUT I HAVE NOTHING ELSE LOL SORRY GUYS ALL YOU HAVE THIS PATHETIC METADATA.
This really pisses me off. My actions are solid with my words because everything I thought and everything I did lined up perfectly. I admitted that I didn't think it turned out as I initially predicted, but I still wanted to try. How the @#$% does that not line up with anything?
"You don't want to make a case because you're afraid of it looking silly? No, I don't buy it."
I DID WANT TO MAKE THE CASE. I just had a feeling that it sucked. That's exactly what happened. You're misinterpreting literally everything. My god one of my worst pet peeves is blatant misrep/misundertanding.
Who cares if it sucks
stop making excuses for your cases if you believe them
Wheat said: "This is the one that really does it. Jey is suddenly not wanting to lynch Iso"
ARE YOU KIDDING ME. ARE YOU SERIOUSLY KIDDING ME. Nowhere in this entire goddamn topic will you find me saying "I don't want to lynch Iso anymore". Get it together. I literally said "not happy about lynching iso this soon". You know what that means?
Well, I'll tell you what it DOESN'T mean: It DOES NOT mean that I have GIVEN UP on lynching Iso. Not in the @#$%ing slightest. It was -much too soon- at -that point in time- to go through with a lynch. I was still VERY MUCH inclined to lynch Iso, but I wanted some more conversation to happen first.
Hey Wheat, how many scum are in this game? Two. How many people is Iso? One. What's Two minus One? One. THERE'S STILL ONE SCUM TO CATCH. Jesus Christ, give me a break about this 'not wanting to lynch iso' bullcrap.
So...why did you want to wait on lynching Iso
Wheat said: "Again, Jey doesn't really get much from info lynches, and if she thinks Iso is scum, she wouldn't betray that. Her actions here (unvoting Iso for the purposes of an info lynch)..."
Are you @#$%ing kidding me? I wasn't pursuing an info lynch, I was asking a goddamn hypothetical question. You need to learn how to read because nowhere does it say that I want to lynch anyone else. I was getting people to talk so I could see some more conversation. I didn't give a @#$% about actually lynching in that hypothetical situation. There is zero misalignment - I can't make any judgments if I don't see any god damn conversation worth judging. NOTE: THERE WAS STILL ONE SCUM TO CATCH AT THIS POINT.
If you weren't trying to get info?
Wheat said: "Post 94: "@Wheat: I think he's scum. My uncertainty is in my ability to prove it. I'm willing to hold off on Iso though, since I don't need to convince myself of anything else." this is not how you play mafia"
TIL.
Wheat said: "but this isn't how you play mafia"
T. I. L.
Yes, keeping telling an inexperienced player who sucks at actual mafia that what they're doing isn't how they play mafia and USE THAT TO BASE YOUR READ OF MY ALIGNMENT ON. Since you're so geared on me playing strictly intuition, then what the @#$% does it matter how I play? Seriously.
When I said that, I meant that isn't how specifically YOU play mafia. Other people play mafia like that, but not you; that's why I thought you were scum.
Wheat said: "This is another example of your actions of not wanting Iso lynched immediately being at odds with your talk of being afraid of Iso getting you lynched."
So @#$%ing shoot me. I said exactly why I didn't want Iso lynched -right away- and after what Iso put me through earlier (you wouldn't know) I have a good reason to be afraid.
Here's why: so one day I brought up a mafia web app called Town of Salem, so I thought Iso and I could derp around a bit.
First game; he's an executioner, a neutral who's win condition is to get a certain town player killed. Guess who has to die to fulfill his win condition. Me. Guess who spammed D1 chat until I got lynched: Iso. so, I died day 1. Whatever.
Second Game; died N1 but that wasn't primarily Iso's fault, but I was starting to get irritated that I wasn't able to actually play these mafia games due to dying so early.
Third game; I'm town doctor, Iso is a neutral serial killer. He kills me Night 0 (there's one night phase before the first day, kind of like this game). I get legitimately upset and stop playing.
Iso can confirm all of this.
I'm not mad anymore, but I'm wary. Especially since I have a scumread on him now. It would be in his win condition to have me dead so getting lynched D1 wouldn't be beyond him. I would hate him forever for it, but it would be fair.
I didn't want to have to bring this up, but you either are ignorant to the hints I've dropped all game about outside issues, cannot read, or are desperate to paint me as scum. IDC.
I am ignorant to the hints you've dropped all game. The other two are false. Well, cannot read is subjective.
Outside issues aren't going to prevent me from going after someone I think is scum.
This game is not life.
Oh wow getting killed D1 again. @#$% this game.
(ftr Iso this one's my fault so I wouldn't be mad at you.)
I'm just using this last quote to separate my new thoughts from the rest.
So, I don't really think Jey is scum anymore. She's upset in a townie way about getting lynched.
The dichotomy is broke. I don't really think Jey is scum but I just don't really believe her Iso read either anymore.
Unvote, Vote: KamikazeArchon
I nominate Jey and Iso as top pecking orders though because I'd still rather have their alignments hit the pavement than most in this game. I feel like I'm psyching myself out over them, no matter which way I think about their alignments.
Let's lynch JeY and make Kami hammer. Iso can be the L1 vote.
(I think JeY and Kami makes sense, but if JeY is town then Iso is scum).
Spoilers, Iso is gone until after the deadline. Good luck with that.
---
@Wheat:
"You see the thing with mafia is, there's at least one group who's always hiding what they really think and mean. Everything is open for interpretation.
Everyone else gets misinterpreted too, get used to it."
That doesn't make what I said not true
"Who cares if it sucks
stop making excuses for your cases if you believe them"
What excuses? youa re that @#$%ing dense? I still made the case BEFORE any excuses, I was still VOTING Iso the entire time. The only reason I wasn't voting Iso was to find another scum lead before the day ended. It had nothing to do with my read on Iso himself.
What you're not @#$%ing getting is that I MADE THE CASE. You talking like I was hesitant -first- and THEN posted the case afterward. I posted a case knowing that it felt sucky because I BELIEVED he was scum, so why would I have to hold back? Why does me saying that I felt my case sucked have to do with -anything-?
How many times do I have to repeat myself?
"So...why did you want to wait on lynching Iso"
So I could find scum #2 D1 because it was still pretty early. How many times do I have to repeat myself?
"If you weren't trying to get info?"
YOU ARE DUMB. I wasn't trying to get info from a -lynch-, I was getting info from a -conversation-. How can I have intuitive reads about people if I don't have ANYTHING TO READ!?
"When I said that, I meant that isn't how specifically YOU play mafia. Other people play mafia like that, but not you; that's why I thought you were scum."
Well today YOU get to learn that I don't have a 100% distinct style from just four @#$%ing games. You're an idiot for believing I have this game fully figured out and a perfect play style and stuff like that in just FOUR GAMES.
"I am ignorant to the hints you've dropped all game. The other two are false. Well, cannot read is subjective.
Outside issues aren't going to prevent me from going after someone I think is scum.
This game is not life."
Lol.
"So, I don't really think Jey is scum anymore. She's upset in a townie way about getting lynched."
LOL. I actually laughed, but not in a good way.
I hate you so much. Seriously. (Don't take this OoG tho')
---
I'm still not moving my vote from Iso. Is there some sort of v/la lynching ethic I should be aware about? I mean, I highly doubt he'll get lynched toDay but lynching him while he can't defend himself seems rough - I highly doubt he can convince me otherwise at this point, but I'm only one vote.
To be honest, a deadline around a national holiday (for USA) is a little rough.
I want to say that I want Wheat at the hammer, but my intuition is telling me not to let the stress get to my nipples so I'll cool off before I make any judgment calls. "Soothe your boobs" as they say.
In normal circumstances, I probably would have given you an extra day, but you had been away for four days, in the evening, with deadline coming close and few people posting. I prodded everyone who'd been away for four days.
#193, Iso: I picked Karn because of Day 1 of Empire of Astare.
As for Kami, I asked him a question first to see how he replied, and then in my next substantive post, brought it up. I believe he punted by not naming people and I don’t buy his hiatus reasoning. The point of your theoretical question was to probe their mindset and by falling back on hiatus as a reasoning for not naming people says, to me, “***** I better be careful here.” Not thing one about that says town to me.
As for interactive tells: There doesn’t appear to be much interaction between the two. Kamikaze asked JAR to explain his town reads on Wheat and Karn in #53, but never followed it up from a quick ISO search. Could be interpreted as scum trying to interact with one another without pressing too hard, or could be lazy play. He did the same thing with Bolly in #185 as well, fwiw.
EWP: His T/S in #211 is *****; /barn Tan re: kamikaze T/S in #213.
@Kamikaze (#211): Have you ever played with Niv before? I don’t see why you view Niv’s post as having a scummy mindset — explain please.
Moving on:
I really don’t know what to make of JeY’s implosion. I’d like to think if she’s scum then she would have stopped talking because she wouldn’t be doing her scum buddy any favours by pouring interactions all over the game. OTOH, I like Wheat’s case in #228 very much. What confuses me is, take JeY’s #237 where she literally flips her ***** six ways to Sunday and back to Bangkok. Why would scum JeY do this? She admittedly claims to not be the best at Mafia, but given she later admits talking about mafia theory with Iso, wouldn’t it be fair to assume that she’d know that if you’re caught, stop doing things that can confirm others? Then she continues in #248 by interacting with Niv, giving us even more to analyse.
I’m not buying JeY = scum.
@Bolly (#229): Why do you hate the case I am pushing on Kamikaze?
/barn Tanarin #233 re: JAR in #231.
#252, Tanarin: Kamikaze, Shockwave/JAR. I want to lynch Kamikaze the most, by far and away.
#264, JeY: Why do you dislike the Kamikaze wagon?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
EDH UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
I'd lynch Kami though if people are buying the JeY!town thing for now.
I'm not buying it, I think a lot of her ranting is ATE, and honestly, I dunno why JeY felt the need to reply to Wheat the why she did just now given Wheat said he feels she may be town after all. I think I am willing to give it a Day though to sort out my feelings
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Kami: his point wasn't "I get wagoned day one, it was I get wagoned for being me, every day one" the second one is genuinely frustrating, since I used to be in that situation a lot, simply because people find my mannerisms/attitude/playstyle inherently scummy. that died down after a year or so, but people playing with me for the first time still do that. Iso however, I'm not sure if it's people just finding his play genuinely scummy, or if people think they can read Iso consistently, whereas in my opinion, his playstyle is dynamic, where you can only look at mindset, and you have to throw meta out the window.
so, here's a thing, I got to this post, and had compltly forgotten shockwave was in this game. even for a low content, slow game, where I'm partly to blame too for the slow catchup.
In my humble opinion, while I don't think there will be a wagon on him by friday, I strong feel shockwave should be the hammer on whoever is voted out today, this is just pathetic beyond belief.
This game has an interesting playerlist, in that there's a lot of players who can be caught readily by specific other players.
Iso is good at catching Void, though not as good as he used to be.
Hmmm, interesting. in your oponion, who else in this game is good at catching who else? how strongly would you rely in these reads in this game, given the nature of this game? also, I like this question by iRebel on this matter. Why would you discredit your own comment?
karn is still town in my eyes atm. so is tan though, so, not sure what this leads me to think, other than the both of you and your questioning is stubborn. if only questions got answered when they were asked. thought it irks me that your still going out of your way to not answer this question from the end of 177.
-------
Regarding the Iso/Wheat exchange here: @Iso: in 2 paragraphs or less, explain to me how to catch Void in 2 posts or less. I'm interested and curious.
-------
Still not a fan of Kamikazi and little posts like this arn't helping.
-------
JeY's post here for what its worth reminds me alot of me. which then confuses me about how you have a bad feeling of me. I'm not sure what you're finding off, but every post in this game has been a flow of consciousness catchup post for the post part, and you post a flow of consciousness catchup post, and in it you get a bad feeling from me? the post on the whole though is really good, comes from a town mindset, the only issue is the contunued scum read on Iso. but it feels more like stubbornness/unwillingness to be wrong, than that you actually found him still scummy. even the disclaimer reminds me of something I do. this isn't really a town tell though, just a null tell that helps me figure you out as a player.
this response to the JeY post, while only one line, is a nightmare, the entire post is largely ignored, to call her out on self consciousness. the type of self consciousness exhibited from this post was neither a town nor a scum self consciousness. It reads as JeY simply being self conscious, for the sake of personal self consciousness, and nothing more. you however want to ask an underhanded question about it, and ignore the whole post. interesting.
both regarding and in replyto Iso: the post on the whole is a solid, town Iso post I've been waiting for, I've had a town read on him from the get go, but I wanted some real content, and he delivered. the Vote on shockwave is good, and I would totally have gone with it, had I been posting current. I don't buy the scum read you have on Wheat at this time, but you having it doesn't make you untown to me. with regards to the question I asked you, I was looking for hypothetical, but you don't really need to answer that in too much detail, I just like to get your brain working and see your mindset, I've been in a few games with you, and read far to many, back in the day. I know the only way to figure you out for sure is to delve into your mindset. so, let me refine this question for you: fresh game, underminedalignmentIso vs townIso, what would town Iso be looking for to nail down undermined Iso's alignment, in this particular game. would it simply be mindset, or would there be more game specific factors to concider. would these factors also apply to other players in this game?
@Tanarin: I was replying to Wheat's post as I read it (rather than reading the whole thing first), and almost started tearing my hair out when I read "Eh forget it you're town". I wasn't about to erase all of that either.
@Niv: I thoroughly believe he's scum but I'm getting an internal nag that I might be wrong and it makes me want to cry. Not literally, mind you.
---
POWERTHIRST NOW COMES IN WOMEN!. Now with PREPOSTOROUS AMOUNTS OF TESTOSTERONE! PREPOSTERONE!
I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
@Niv: I already said, I think. Jey can catch Iso (at least I thought she could, now I don't buy it) and Iso can usually catch Void. And Iso has an okay chance of catching Jey too.
"Okay something is going on here and I don't like it."
That's what happened more or less. I'm going to have to re-read Kamikaze or something.
---
Wheat, it took three mafia days to get over my paranoia on my Iso read. I'd say that's a little less than reliable =P I'd say I'm still having the same problem now, but I'm only more committed now because I have something to base it off.
---
I'll be V/LA Saturday/Sunday to spend time with my Sister/Brother in law coming up from California!
#193, Iso: I picked Karn because of Day 1 of Empire of Astare.
As for Kami, I asked him a question first to see how he replied, and then in my next substantive post, brought it up. I believe he punted by not naming people and I don’t buy his hiatus reasoning. The point of your theoretical question was to probe their mindset and by falling back on hiatus as a reasoning for not naming people says, to me, “***** I better be careful here.” Not thing one about that says town to me.
I answered the question to the best of my ability. Specifying names would have required me to either guess blindly or make something up. I'm not going to do that just to satisfy a hypothetical.
As for interactive tells: There doesn’t appear to be much interaction between the two. Kamikaze asked JAR to explain his town reads on Wheat and Karn in #53, but never followed it up from a quick ISO search. Could be interpreted as scum trying to interact with one another without pressing too hard, or could be lazy play. He did the same thing with Bolly in #185 as well, fwiw.
You're right, I haven't followed up on everything. I don't have the energy to hound everyone for an answer.
@Kamikaze (#211): Have you ever played with Niv before? I don’t see why you view Niv’s post as having a scummy mindset — explain please.
I already explained it: hyperbole doesn't help fact finding.
Given the deadline it seems likely I'm going to die. With this many inactives I doubt I can convince you not to do that. I request Wheat and Niv to be my hammer and L-1.
Dying thoughts: examine the case I've made on Wheat. I dislike his push on Jey, I feel like his turn toward me was opportunistic. Also take a closer look at the lurkers. I'm not good at separating lurktown from lurkscum, but I feel it increasingly likely that at least one of the popes is in there, just given how many non-contributing individuals we have.
another day, another page, I have to leave for work in an hour, so, lets make this quick. p9/10, trying to speed this up b/c deadline and whatnot.
Kami really is reminding me of me here, continuing that trend. I'm really starting to develop a strong town read on you. it's also a very solid pick for a vote.
so, umm, Kami's T/S list. you've obviously never played with me, or read a single game with me in it ever. you're finding me scum for being me right now. the rest of the list is spotty at best. no comment on any of my actual content, but don't worry, my vocabulary and personality is scummy.......... blow me. Tan's still town though and pretty much nailed it.
Wheat responds to Iso, in a solid mannor, still reading town on wheat.
that's all you can ******* muster at this point of the game. you're ignoreing 99% of the thread, vaguely acknowledge being indirectly talked at, when JeY just voted you. what in the actual flying **** is this post. you're being directly talked about, sir. good to know you've been drinking too much, this entire game, and are incapable of content. spoiler alert, this rereads never going to happen.
bolly's town too, while not that big of a post, this post really feels like it's strongly coming from someone who wants to figure out what's going on.
that's all you've got, are you kidding me? you're willing to vote for any wagon to hammer. this really isn't a scum or town mentaility. why don't you just replace out if you actually dont want to play.
thanks for helping. good job shockwave. who's scum with you?
JeY explodes, I could go into detail with what I think about this, but I just further solidifies her as town atm. but wheat's town too.
@JeY: then why did you still make the statement? why not just take it out and not say it? why would you proofread something, realize it doesn't seem all that good, and leave it it? also if someone claimed scum in the first post of the game, I would vote them, and they would die. once scum is found, you kill them. end story. it's how this game works. you don't leave them alive to interact with other people. people think games need to take as long as humanly possible, I like to go to night with dead scum.
@JeY: then why did you still make the statement? why not just take it out and not say it? why would you proofread something, realize it doesn't seem all that good, and leave it it? also if someone claimed scum in the first post of the game, I would vote them, and they would die. once scum is found, you kill them. end story. it's how this game works. you don't leave them alive to interact with other people. people think games need to take as long as humanly possible, I like to go to night with dead scum.
As for the statement, I believe in being honest. I have a thought, I'm going to express it or it's going to come back and bite me in the ass later.
That's literally your opinion and I don't agree. I want to get as much information as I can as soon as possible. Going into night pre-emptively gives scum more time to collaborate for free. Sure they have a day-chat, but they still have to discuss in parallel with the game, and if one dies the other can't discuss anything but they can still plan. If I can set up both lynches I want in D1, That's way better than just lynching asap and then hunting D2. I don't think the game should take as long as humanly possible, I just want to be ahead. Don't tell me how to play this game.
Obviously the scum aren't #@$%ing going anywhere, if you lynch the same person that moment or a week later, it makes little difference. Blah blah blah more interactions, but who interacts with -them- and how? I think that's far more valuable. You're a sick person to believe you have the right to tell me how to play this game based on your opinion.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
¤.†.¤ The OceanLink ¤.†.¤
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Post 32: Wastes no time calling Iso scum, and votes him. This is okay. This is just fine.
Post 37: "Maybe I'm not the best judge of Karn because I have not been in a game with Scum!Karn so forget what I said about him; but from solely my experience he looks like he's doing his town thing @_@" This isn't how you (specifically you) play mafia.
Post 42: "But gosh darn if I ever betray my intuition ever again and I was wrong to do so I'm going to be really mad." Posting this for later use, because this is how you (specifically you) play mafia.
Post 44: "Thinking back, re-reading the games didn't give me much -evidence- to post per se, but it refreshed my feelings from those games. I definitely feel like Katawa Shoujo Iso is playing this game, regardless if I can prove it or not =\ Now, where's my vig shot... =_="
This is the post I expect from town!jey
Post 55-56: nothing important
Post 61: "The point being, I was making a case but then I thought of how silly people might think it sounded. It wasn't about being confident in me, it was being not confident about whether this inexpressible feeling I'm trying to convey through what I realized after posting seemed like poor examples. It felt like it was good enough at the time but after a few minutes I was like "...Iso's just going to tear this apart and throw this in my face" And then you did but not very well 0.o"
This is your actions going against your words. You know Iso is scum, you know it in your bones. You know I'm sitting here gunning for Iso with half the rest of the town and you know that I know how good your gut is. You don't want to make a case because you're afraid of it looking silly? No, I don't buy it.
Post 75: Suddenly Jey wants to info lynch which is unlike her. She does not info lynch, she builds intuition and lynches from that.
Post 76: "Definitely not happy about lynching Iso this soon though. Unvote FoS: Iso"
This is the one that really does it. Jey is suddenly not wanting to lynch Iso, despite thinking Iso is scum. Again, Jey doesn't really get much from info lynches, and if she thinks Iso is scum, she wouldn't betray that. Her actions here (unvoting Iso for the purposes of an info lynch) don't match what she says (Iso is scum 100%) and how she normally plays (info lynches aren't as useful as intuition)
Post 94: "@Wheat: I think he's scum. My uncertainty is in my ability to prove it. I'm willing to hold off on Iso though, since I don't need to convince myself of anything else." this is not how you play mafia
Post106: "@The WHEAT wheat WhEaT: I just said this, but I don't need Iso lynched right this minute. I went after him and built momentum, yes it was faster than I expected, but I've already said I'm not ready toe nd the day yet. We could get so much more information from wagons if we encourage more discussion. I already proclaimed my thoughts, stated my rather lame set of evidence, and comissioned my thoughts on Iso's play, what more do I need? I'm convinced I've found scum, but I want there to be more information to analyze from the lynch, and how would I get that from actively pursuing him even further? I honestly don't knwo what you're trying to ask here."
but this isn't how you play mafia
I'm going to keep repeating myself from here on out so I'm only going to quote a few more from here on out.
Post 124: "[But if you want a real reply, Look: I posted what I wrote anyway. Zero hesitation. I was just posting my honest thoughts. If I'm afraid of anything, it's scum!Iso getting me mislynched early. Hindsight, why should I be worried of that? Still, lol.]"
This is another example of your actions of not wanting Iso lynched immediately being at odds with your talk of being afraid of Iso getting you lynched.
Post 148: "Looks to me like they're just picking easy cases, I wouldn't clear them just yet, but the way they're saying things doesn't rub me the wrong way really but I'm not getting any intuitive reads toward either side of the scale. My playing is horrid so of course I'm going to be attacked, not going to say they're scum because they're after me." This makes my skin crawl with how bad it is but it's not actually scummy the more I think about it.
I laughed because you came to the conclusion that Jey is scum.
Yes, ever since he called every post I have made terrible. I also still believe in the dichotomy.
Now, I have a question in return. What exactly is interesting about my interactions with Jey?
To be fair, you have not contributed that much. So I find it real funny that you of all people are complaining about boredom and lack of focus. Also don't like how you would hammer out of boredom when we have a pretty good use for the hammer vote.
Anyway, consider me sold on JeYk. Still think Kami's post/T/S list is horrible and would love to see him be the hammer though.
Unvote Vote Jey
L-2 by my count, so be warned.
Come join us in the MTGSalvation chat ||| My trade thread. ||| My Personal Modern Blog: The Fetchlands
I'm willing to take the L-1 or Hammer if it comes to it.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
Spider-Man Mafia 3 (Off-Site: NGA)
Metroid Mafia (Off-Site: Mafia Universe)
Treat me more like a @#$%ing child.
Unvote
Vote: Iso
Probably not moving this for quite a while now. You're definitely scum.
---
And then I read wheat's post. I have to be the #1 most misinterpreted mafia player on this goddamn planet. No wonder I have OCD with explanations.
Wheat said: "This is your actions going against your words. You know Iso is scum, you know it in your bones. You know I'm sitting here gunning for Iso with half the rest of the town and you know that I know how good your gut is. You don't want to make a case because you're afraid of it looking silly? No, I don't buy it."
I MADE THE CASE. ARE YOU KIDDING ME!? I was just being brutally honest, but if you look at this thread, I DID MAKE THE CASE. I didn't post "I don't want to make this case" and then after being pressured posted it anyway, NO!! I POSTED IT RIGHT AWAY!!
I was confident I would find something really good to smother in Iso's smug face, but then when I actually dug through the threads and tried to compile something, it seemed to not pull together as well as I thought it would. So, my initial thought was "Wow this is actually kind of dumb, why would anyone consider this worthwhile information? Well, I might as well try"
So, based on that thought, I put together what i found, AND I MADE THE CASE. Except, I already knew that it seemed pretty dumb, and LOOK WHAT HAPPENED. SEVERAL PEOPLE CONSIDERED IT WEAK/WHATEVER. It was the god damn truth. But you know what? I posted it, and I posted it right away, despite ANYTHING.
Wanna know how my intuition works? It just does - when I was making the case, my intuition said "this is going to suck major ass" AND LOOK, IT DID. But I was compelled to see if I could make it work anyway, and it didn't. I still know, or at least, I had a feeling that Iso was definitely scum, but I had nothing else to pin to him. So what do I do? All I have left is to sit there and say "it's jsut my intuition". Well, I already did that. WELP I THINK ISO'S SCUM BUT I HAVE NOTHING ELSE LOL SORRY GUYS ALL YOU HAVE THIS PATHETIC METADATA.
This really pisses me off. My actions are solid with my words because everything I thought and everything I did lined up perfectly. I admitted that I didn't think it turned out as I initially predicted, but I still wanted to try. How the @#$% does that not line up with anything?
"You don't want to make a case because you're afraid of it looking silly? No, I don't buy it."
I DID WANT TO MAKE THE CASE. I just had a feeling that it sucked. That's exactly what happened. You're misinterpreting literally everything. My god one of my worst pet peeves is blatant misrep/misundertanding.
Wheat said: "This is the one that really does it. Jey is suddenly not wanting to lynch Iso"
ARE YOU KIDDING ME. ARE YOU SERIOUSLY KIDDING ME. Nowhere in this entire goddamn topic will you find me saying "I don't want to lynch Iso anymore". Get it together. I literally said "not happy about lynching iso this soon". You know what that means?
Well, I'll tell you what it DOESN'T mean: It DOES NOT mean that I have GIVEN UP on lynching Iso. Not in the @#$%ing slightest. It was -much too soon- at -that point in time- to go through with a lynch. I was still VERY MUCH inclined to lynch Iso, but I wanted some more conversation to happen first.
Hey Wheat, how many scum are in this game? Two. How many people is Iso? One. What's Two minus One? One. THERE'S STILL ONE SCUM TO CATCH. Jesus Christ, give me a break about this 'not wanting to lynch iso' bullcrap.
Wheat said: "Again, Jey doesn't really get much from info lynches, and if she thinks Iso is scum, she wouldn't betray that. Her actions here (unvoting Iso for the purposes of an info lynch)..."
Are you @#$%ing kidding me? I wasn't pursuing an info lynch, I was asking a goddamn hypothetical question. You need to learn how to read because nowhere does it say that I want to lynch anyone else. I was getting people to talk so I could see some more conversation. I didn't give a @#$% about actually lynching in that hypothetical situation. There is zero misalignment - I can't make any judgments if I don't see any god damn conversation worth judging. NOTE: THERE WAS STILL ONE SCUM TO CATCH AT THIS POINT.
Wheat said: "Post 94: "@Wheat: I think he's scum. My uncertainty is in my ability to prove it. I'm willing to hold off on Iso though, since I don't need to convince myself of anything else." this is not how you play mafia"
TIL.
Wheat said: "but this isn't how you play mafia"
T. I. L.
Yes, keeping telling an inexperienced player who sucks at actual mafia that what they're doing isn't how they play mafia and USE THAT TO BASE YOUR READ OF MY ALIGNMENT ON. Since you're so geared on me playing strictly intuition, then what the @#$% does it matter how I play? Seriously.
Wheat said: "This is another example of your actions of not wanting Iso lynched immediately being at odds with your talk of being afraid of Iso getting you lynched."
So @#$%ing shoot me. I said exactly why I didn't want Iso lynched -right away- and after what Iso put me through earlier (you wouldn't know) I have a good reason to be afraid.
Here's why: so one day I brought up a mafia web app called Town of Salem, so I thought Iso and I could derp around a bit.
First game; he's an executioner, a neutral who's win condition is to get a certain town player killed. Guess who has to die to fulfill his win condition. Me. Guess who spammed D1 chat until I got lynched: Iso. so, I died day 1. Whatever.
Second Game; died N1 but that wasn't primarily Iso's fault, but I was starting to get irritated that I wasn't able to actually play these mafia games due to dying so early.
Third game; I'm town doctor, Iso is a neutral serial killer. He kills me Night 0 (there's one night phase before the first day, kind of like this game). I get legitimately upset and stop playing.
Iso can confirm all of this.
I'm not mad anymore, but I'm wary. Especially since I have a scumread on him now. It would be in his win condition to have me dead so getting lynched D1 wouldn't be beyond him. I would hate him forever for it, but it would be fair.
I didn't want to have to bring this up, but you either are ignorant to the hints I've dropped all game about outside issues, cannot read, or are desperate to paint me as scum. IDC.
---
Oh wow getting killed D1 again. @#$% this game.
(ftr Iso this one's my fault so I wouldn't be mad at you.)
¤.†.¤ The OceanLink ¤.†.¤
I see this as 'I know JeY isn't sainted so I'm getting free cred', for the record.
¤.†.¤ The OceanLink ¤.†.¤
¤.†.¤ The OceanLink ¤.†.¤
Wheat metas me and everyone loses their minds. Not to mention the case is based on misinterpreting -everything- I've posted and statements of 'that's not how you play mafia'.
¤.†.¤ The OceanLink ¤.†.¤
I am not going to be voting JeY, and if the rest of you are so determined to lynch her, I want Wheat on the hammer.
Void's post here feels way off base, the defence of karn is completely unnecessary, and awkward. that and if ignoring questions is someone's meta, we should lynch them untill it isn't part of their meta. that, and the fact that I just skimmed back, and Wheat never unvoted. the way that post was made, just doesn't seem genuine, espicially the part with the misrep.
I do follow this line of thinking as well. but I kinda wrote it off as null, since I've seen more than enough town and scum do things similar to this. while the action taken isn't an proper one, I don't believe it's a tell under generic circumstances.
Karn's posts of content around here actually really do feel like they come from a town mindset. all of them contain sound logic on paper, I still disagree with the way he went about the opener, but I think that's a bit more of a theory disagreement than town/scum anything. I don't think however the connections are as strong as karn believes them to be. I think alot of this case is indirectly karn justifying his first vote again. you're on Kamikazi for calling you out, and indirectly defending tan, but It really was a direct difference, and called you out for being a hypocrite all the same. I really do however think at this point your intentions are good, just your methods are suspect in this situation. that and at the end, that Iso link seems flimsier than parchment paper.
this however is a really good point by kami. the fact that karn later ignores it, as he seems to just do, really just makes me want to lynch him now, almost on policy. but policy lynches are bad, ok? but seriously, why does karn ignore questions like this, it actually was a pretty stong question, does he want to avoid answering anything he doesn't have an answer that's good for?
I'm really not likeing one line in this post by Jey " If my voice means anything on the matter I think I'd prefer that one cannot vote for themselves in this setup. The town gets an advantage of this works out the way JAR put it, but that just seems silly to me." was what was said. while I agree that the game should be balanced, or at least one side shouldn't get an unfair advantage over the other, the way this was worded just seems really off to me. doesn't feel like it came from a townie thinking the game was unbalanced, but from a pope, complaining that the game shouldn't be imbalanced.
@Void: you say here that that karn is unreadable day one, but strong as town lategame, how do you propose that we then discern town karn from scum karn? by your logic, is a scum karn not nearly as terrifying as the town karn is strong? at what point can we start reading him, and does he encounter the Azrael problem, where if he's alive at endgame, you should just policy lynch him? I don't disagree that you shouldn't be voting wheat right now, but is karn really that good that you'll unvote on his word alone?
this post is not a town post. if you had worded your dislike of the self vote strat like that in your last post, it wouldn't have been scummy. you went out of your way to talk about how it was the town that was getting the unfair end. the meaning was fair, but the wording screamed "I'M A POPE" that and the second part, if you've found scum, you lynch them. end of story. you don't let scum live, the day ends. it's the way mafia works.
Karn ignores other questions to respond here. seems off, but apparently that's "just karn"
town post while I'm not sold on the theory, it feels as though a legitimate attempt to figure the game out.
Kami's response to it however comes from a mindset that doesn't make sense at all. he implies that we won't be reevaluating our reads. and if a scum slips past everyone's reads and makes it to endgame, isn't that when you say gg? like, this is how every game is played. when scum win it's because they made it to endgame appearing as town. even if we didn;t do this we still lose in this fashion. so, the only good thing that can come of your post is to discourage people out of townreads in general, which is not a town mindset imo, regardless of the accuracy of tan's plan.
I accept this reasoning on the unvote mix up
Karn's town, even if I don't agree with every bit of his reasoning, or his playstyle.
Void: barn'd JeY's scum. the response does nothing for me at this point
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
this post on the whole puts JAR, pretty well into my town pool. alot of solid questions, and imput into the game. I however don't see how void intrepted any of that as defending Jey. I'm torn on void atm, which is weird, I'm not getting a null read on him, but an alternating read on him, where some post seem just so town, yet other posts scream scum. not sure I'll ever be able to figure out where that line of thinking leads me, which is probally the best for my mental health.
@Shockwave: have you done anything useful this game? I just got this post and realized I can't think of anything of note that you've done all game.
JeY: okay? that's it? nothing more to say at all? I'm not sure what meaning you were trying to convey here either, not sure if this was directed regarding me, or herself (JeY is female, yes? I think I've picked that one up)
iRebel is town. solid post, well placed vote on kami at this point. overall just a good post.
I follow the logic in this post by Tan, but I really don't like the veiled attack on karn contained within. I can't see a world where karn would make any of the case posts he did, on the same team as kami. the level of busing that was mentioned just blows my mind. and the way you phrase this in the vote for karn just feels really off to me.
g'night!
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
Second, if we could figure out instantly all the scum and town, yeah, that would be great. But that's not how the game works. We have to build up our evaluations and our level of confidence in our reads over time, and that is affected by who and what we analyze. And the public results of those analyses influence everyone else's actions. If you start by working your way through the scummiest, the game is going to play out differently than if you start by working your way through the towniest. The way in which you do that is part of your strategy. Tanarin wasn't saying "let's play mafia", he was proposing a particular strategy for playing mafia. And I think that strategy is a poor choice in this setup.
(7 to lynch)
Iso - 2 (JAR, JeY k)
Wheat_Grinder - 2 (Shockwave, KamikazeArchon)
JeY k - 5 (Void, Wheat_Grinder, Sir Karn, Bolly, Tanarin)
KamikazeArchon - 1 (iRebel)
Shockwave - 1 (Iso)
Not Voting: Niv
--
I'm giving up on tracking FOSes. That didn't seem to go very far.
You have, I think, 112 hours left.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
There is no good way to put 'Even though this is a distinct advantage for town I like that it's not implemented' and still sound town. -shrug-. I thought that modifying my original statement would make it seem fake so even after I proofread I left it as-is.
And... the second explanation is not just an elaboration of 'silly'?
#StillNumber1MostMisrepp'dMafiaPlayerEver
And lynch them that shortly into the game? When I have zero other leads? Let me at least get other targets first for christ's sake.
You didn't ask me anything.
Little bit of both sweetie, The gist of that statement is "I have a null read on Niv; just being attacked for things I deserved to be attacked about doesn't provide anything meaningful" (Yes, I am female. Fun fact: I wasn't always female!)
I think that was the second time I have ever actually gotten mad at mafia. The first time was for the same exact reason, actually; I was getting misrep'd beyond belief in a decent chain of posts so I got sick of it. It's a pet peeve of mine.
And I know exactly why Wheat's misrepping me. He thinks I'm situated to a play style, that I'm no longer a learning mafia player and that I perfectly rely on my intuition for everything now, when he's blatantly wrong. This is only my 5th game of Mafia. That's probably less than 10% of the total games any of you have played. I'm still very much learning, and what I want to learn is how to actually catch scum because I'm so damn unsure of my intuition. I've doubted it every game and I'm continuing to doubt it from my nature. It's right; it's always right, but I'm always paranoid.
Wheat's misguided interpretation of my mindset and play style is what makes his entire dumb argument fall apart. He modded a game I played in and played in another with me, so he's definitely not correct in his set-in-stone interpretation of me. I may know him personally but I know for a fact he can't decipher my mafia play from that.
@Wheat; I'm not calling you bad, but I'm saying that you actually have no idea who I am, exactly ;\ And [redacted because it was a little mean and uncalled for but basically it boils down to 'your argument is bull-@#$%']
---
I decided that I'm doing my RP posts tonight. I'll do that re-read tomorrow.
Also there's a lot of red squiggles in my microsoft word from people spelling my name with a lowercase 'Y' ;\ not that you guys have to, I just find it interesting. (I know what you're going to say and Shutup Iso.)
¤.†.¤ The OceanLink ¤.†.¤
¤.†.¤ The OceanLink ¤.†.¤
It's going to take awhile so I'm not making promises on when I can get to it.
Spoilers; The easiest response is "I'm sorry for pretending to be able to judge you well" ;\
¤.†.¤ The OceanLink ¤.†.¤
@Everyone: I do agree with Jey though that we need to get off our collective asses and either lynch Jey the proper way, or otherwise lynch someone. As of now, this can easily turn into Xymande if we are not careful and fail to pick up our slack.
So, let's get another firestarter while we wait on Wheat to decide if he is going to reply or not.
Who is everyone's top 3 candidates for scum right now?
My current list is Karn, Jey and Kami.
@Mod: Now I am sure at least one person is due for a prod, possibly 2. Prods please?
Come join us in the MTGSalvation chat ||| My trade thread. ||| My Personal Modern Blog: The Fetchlands
¤.†.¤ The OceanLink ¤.†.¤
As for now, due to the fact that I'm actually not dead yet, either the scum are already way ahead on my wagon or they're very, very apprehensive about my flip. Who's been missing inexplicably lately?
¤.†.¤ The OceanLink ¤.†.¤
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls
RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty
UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
Mafia Stats
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
(I think JeY and Kami makes sense, but if JeY is town then Iso is scum).
@Mod: Is the order in which people are listed on the votecount the wagon order?
You see the thing with mafia is, there's at least one group who's always hiding what they really think and mean. Everything is open for interpretation.
Everyone else gets misinterpreted too, get used to it.
Who cares if it sucks
stop making excuses for your cases if you believe them
So...why did you want to wait on lynching Iso
If you weren't trying to get info?
When I said that, I meant that isn't how specifically YOU play mafia. Other people play mafia like that, but not you; that's why I thought you were scum.
I am ignorant to the hints you've dropped all game. The other two are false. Well, cannot read is subjective.
Outside issues aren't going to prevent me from going after someone I think is scum.
This game is not life.
I'm just using this last quote to separate my new thoughts from the rest.
So, I don't really think Jey is scum anymore. She's upset in a townie way about getting lynched.
The dichotomy is broke. I don't really think Jey is scum but I just don't really believe her Iso read either anymore.
Unvote, Vote: KamikazeArchon
I nominate Jey and Iso as top pecking orders though because I'd still rather have their alignments hit the pavement than most in this game. I feel like I'm psyching myself out over them, no matter which way I think about their alignments.
Spoilers, Iso is gone until after the deadline. Good luck with that.
---
@Wheat:
"You see the thing with mafia is, there's at least one group who's always hiding what they really think and mean. Everything is open for interpretation.
Everyone else gets misinterpreted too, get used to it."
That doesn't make what I said not true
"Who cares if it sucks
stop making excuses for your cases if you believe them"
What excuses? youa re that @#$%ing dense? I still made the case BEFORE any excuses, I was still VOTING Iso the entire time. The only reason I wasn't voting Iso was to find another scum lead before the day ended. It had nothing to do with my read on Iso himself.
What you're not @#$%ing getting is that I MADE THE CASE. You talking like I was hesitant -first- and THEN posted the case afterward. I posted a case knowing that it felt sucky because I BELIEVED he was scum, so why would I have to hold back? Why does me saying that I felt my case sucked have to do with -anything-?
How many times do I have to repeat myself?
"So...why did you want to wait on lynching Iso"
So I could find scum #2 D1 because it was still pretty early. How many times do I have to repeat myself?
"If you weren't trying to get info?"
YOU ARE DUMB. I wasn't trying to get info from a -lynch-, I was getting info from a -conversation-. How can I have intuitive reads about people if I don't have ANYTHING TO READ!?
"When I said that, I meant that isn't how specifically YOU play mafia. Other people play mafia like that, but not you; that's why I thought you were scum."
Well today YOU get to learn that I don't have a 100% distinct style from just four @#$%ing games. You're an idiot for believing I have this game fully figured out and a perfect play style and stuff like that in just FOUR GAMES.
"I am ignorant to the hints you've dropped all game. The other two are false. Well, cannot read is subjective.
Outside issues aren't going to prevent me from going after someone I think is scum.
This game is not life."
Lol.
"So, I don't really think Jey is scum anymore. She's upset in a townie way about getting lynched."
LOL. I actually laughed, but not in a good way.
I hate you so much. Seriously. (Don't take this OoG tho')
---
I'm still not moving my vote from Iso. Is there some sort of v/la lynching ethic I should be aware about? I mean, I highly doubt he'll get lynched toDay but lynching him while he can't defend himself seems rough - I highly doubt he can convince me otherwise at this point, but I'm only one vote.
To be honest, a deadline around a national holiday (for USA) is a little rough.
I want to say that I want Wheat at the hammer, but my intuition is telling me not to let the stress get to my nipples so I'll cool off before I make any judgment calls. "Soothe your boobs" as they say.
Trains.
¤.†.¤ The OceanLink ¤.†.¤
¤.†.¤ The OceanLink ¤.†.¤
To the best of my knowledge. In normal circumstances, I probably would have given you an extra day, but you had been away for four days, in the evening, with deadline coming close and few people posting. I prodded everyone who'd been away for four days.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
As for Kami, I asked him a question first to see how he replied, and then in my next substantive post, brought it up. I believe he punted by not naming people and I don’t buy his hiatus reasoning. The point of your theoretical question was to probe their mindset and by falling back on hiatus as a reasoning for not naming people says, to me, “***** I better be careful here.” Not thing one about that says town to me.
As for interactive tells: There doesn’t appear to be much interaction between the two. Kamikaze asked JAR to explain his town reads on Wheat and Karn in #53, but never followed it up from a quick ISO search. Could be interpreted as scum trying to interact with one another without pressing too hard, or could be lazy play. He did the same thing with Bolly in #185 as well, fwiw.
EWP: His T/S in #211 is *****; /barn Tan re: kamikaze T/S in #213.
@Kamikaze (#211): Have you ever played with Niv before? I don’t see why you view Niv’s post as having a scummy mindset — explain please.
Moving on:
I really don’t know what to make of JeY’s implosion. I’d like to think if she’s scum then she would have stopped talking because she wouldn’t be doing her scum buddy any favours by pouring interactions all over the game. OTOH, I like Wheat’s case in #228 very much. What confuses me is, take JeY’s #237 where she literally flips her ***** six ways to Sunday and back to Bangkok. Why would scum JeY do this? She admittedly claims to not be the best at Mafia, but given she later admits talking about mafia theory with Iso, wouldn’t it be fair to assume that she’d know that if you’re caught, stop doing things that can confirm others? Then she continues in #248 by interacting with Niv, giving us even more to analyse.
I’m not buying JeY = scum.
@Bolly (#229): Why do you hate the case I am pushing on Kamikaze?
/barn Tanarin #233 re: JAR in #231.
#252, Tanarin: Kamikaze, Shockwave/JAR. I want to lynch Kamikaze the most, by far and away.
#264, JeY: Why do you dislike the Kamikaze wagon?
UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls
RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty
UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
Mafia Stats
I'm not buying it, I think a lot of her ranting is ATE, and honestly, I dunno why JeY felt the need to reply to Wheat the why she did just now given Wheat said he feels she may be town after all. I think I am willing to give it a Day though to sort out my feelings
Unvote Vote Kami
This is something I can agree with Karn on.
Come join us in the MTGSalvation chat ||| My trade thread. ||| My Personal Modern Blog: The Fetchlands
Now back to packing!
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Kami: his point wasn't "I get wagoned day one, it was I get wagoned for being me, every day one" the second one is genuinely frustrating, since I used to be in that situation a lot, simply because people find my mannerisms/attitude/playstyle inherently scummy. that died down after a year or so, but people playing with me for the first time still do that. Iso however, I'm not sure if it's people just finding his play genuinely scummy, or if people think they can read Iso consistently, whereas in my opinion, his playstyle is dynamic, where you can only look at mindset, and you have to throw meta out the window.
Tan is probally town
----------
so, here's a thing, I got to this post, and had compltly forgotten shockwave was in this game. even for a low content, slow game, where I'm partly to blame too for the slow catchup.
his is all of shockwave's posts from day one he has actually done:
NOTHING
This game, at all, pretty much zilch. less posts than me.
In my humble opinion, while I don't think there will be a wagon on him by friday, I strong feel shockwave should be the hammer on whoever is voted out today, this is just pathetic beyond belief.
--------
Hmmm, interesting. in your oponion, who else in this game is good at catching who else? how strongly would you rely in these reads in this game, given the nature of this game? also, I like this question by iRebel on this matter. Why would you discredit your own comment?
karn is still town in my eyes atm. so is tan though, so, not sure what this leads me to think, other than the both of you and your questioning is stubborn. if only questions got answered when they were asked. thought it irks me that your still going out of your way to not answer this question from the end of 177.
-------
Regarding the Iso/Wheat exchange here: @Iso: in 2 paragraphs or less, explain to me how to catch Void in 2 posts or less. I'm interested and curious.
-------
Still not a fan of Kamikazi and little posts like this arn't helping.
-------
JeY's post here for what its worth reminds me alot of me. which then confuses me about how you have a bad feeling of me. I'm not sure what you're finding off, but every post in this game has been a flow of consciousness catchup post for the post part, and you post a flow of consciousness catchup post, and in it you get a bad feeling from me? the post on the whole though is really good, comes from a town mindset, the only issue is the contunued scum read on Iso. but it feels more like stubbornness/unwillingness to be wrong, than that you actually found him still scummy. even the disclaimer reminds me of something I do. this isn't really a town tell though, just a null tell that helps me figure you out as a player.
this response to the JeY post, while only one line, is a nightmare, the entire post is largely ignored, to call her out on self consciousness. the type of self consciousness exhibited from this post was neither a town nor a scum self consciousness. It reads as JeY simply being self conscious, for the sake of personal self consciousness, and nothing more. you however want to ask an underhanded question about it, and ignore the whole post. interesting.
both regarding and in reply to Iso: the post on the whole is a solid, town Iso post I've been waiting for, I've had a town read on him from the get go, but I wanted some real content, and he delivered. the Vote on shockwave is good, and I would totally have gone with it, had I been posting current. I don't buy the scum read you have on Wheat at this time, but you having it doesn't make you untown to me. with regards to the question I asked you, I was looking for hypothetical, but you don't really need to answer that in too much detail, I just like to get your brain working and see your mindset, I've been in a few games with you, and read far to many, back in the day. I know the only way to figure you out for sure is to delve into your mindset. so, let me refine this question for you: fresh game, underminedalignmentIso vs townIso, what would town Iso be looking for to nail down undermined Iso's alignment, in this particular game. would it simply be mindset, or would there be more game specific factors to concider. would these factors also apply to other players in this game?
though Wheat's response made me lol
more later.
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
@Tanarin: I was replying to Wheat's post as I read it (rather than reading the whole thing first), and almost started tearing my hair out when I read "Eh forget it you're town". I wasn't about to erase all of that either.
@Niv: I thoroughly believe he's scum but I'm getting an internal nag that I might be wrong and it makes me want to cry. Not literally, mind you.
---
POWERTHIRST NOW COMES IN WOMEN!. Now with PREPOSTOROUS AMOUNTS OF TESTOSTERONE! PREPOSTERONE!
¤.†.¤ The OceanLink ¤.†.¤
What, specifically, was said to trigger that intuition that something was off with the Kamikaze wagon?
UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls
RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty
UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
Mafia Stats
yeah that's why she's town
That makes me feel less conflicted about my Jey read.
"...What? Why?"
"Okay something is going on here and I don't like it."
That's what happened more or less. I'm going to have to re-read Kamikaze or something.
---
Wheat, it took three mafia days to get over my paranoia on my Iso read. I'd say that's a little less than reliable =P I'd say I'm still having the same problem now, but I'm only more committed now because I have something to base it off.
---
I'll be V/LA Saturday/Sunday to spend time with my Sister/Brother in law coming up from California!
¤.†.¤ The OceanLink ¤.†.¤
Given the deadline it seems likely I'm going to die. With this many inactives I doubt I can convince you not to do that. I request Wheat and Niv to be my hammer and L-1.
Dying thoughts: examine the case I've made on Wheat. I dislike his push on Jey, I feel like his turn toward me was opportunistic. Also take a closer look at the lurkers. I'm not good at separating lurktown from lurkscum, but I feel it increasingly likely that at least one of the popes is in there, just given how many non-contributing individuals we have.
Kami really is reminding me of me here, continuing that trend. I'm really starting to develop a strong town read on you. it's also a very solid pick for a vote.
so, umm, Kami's T/S list. you've obviously never played with me, or read a single game with me in it ever. you're finding me scum for being me right now. the rest of the list is spotty at best. no comment on any of my actual content, but don't worry, my vocabulary and personality is scummy.......... blow me. Tan's still town though and pretty much nailed it.
Wheat responds to Iso, in a solid mannor, still reading town on wheat.
that's all you can ******* muster at this point of the game. you're ignoreing 99% of the thread, vaguely acknowledge being indirectly talked at, when JeY just voted you. what in the actual flying **** is this post. you're being directly talked about, sir. good to know you've been drinking too much, this entire game, and are incapable of content. spoiler alert, this rereads never going to happen.
town mindset, but wrong, imo.
bolly's town too, while not that big of a post, this post really feels like it's strongly coming from someone who wants to figure out what's going on.
that's all you've got, are you kidding me? you're willing to vote for any wagon to hammer. this really isn't a scum or town mentaility. why don't you just replace out if you actually dont want to play.
thanks for helping. good job shockwave. who's scum with you?
JeY explodes, I could go into detail with what I think about this, but I just further solidifies her as town atm. but wheat's town too.
@JeY: then why did you still make the statement? why not just take it out and not say it? why would you proofread something, realize it doesn't seem all that good, and leave it it? also if someone claimed scum in the first post of the game, I would vote them, and they would die. once scum is found, you kill them. end story. it's how this game works. you don't leave them alive to interact with other people. people think games need to take as long as humanly possible, I like to go to night with dead scum.
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
As for the statement, I believe in being honest. I have a thought, I'm going to express it or it's going to come back and bite me in the ass later.
That's literally your opinion and I don't agree. I want to get as much information as I can as soon as possible. Going into night pre-emptively gives scum more time to collaborate for free. Sure they have a day-chat, but they still have to discuss in parallel with the game, and if one dies the other can't discuss anything but they can still plan. If I can set up both lynches I want in D1, That's way better than just lynching asap and then hunting D2. I don't think the game should take as long as humanly possible, I just want to be ahead. Don't tell me how to play this game.
Obviously the scum aren't #@$%ing going anywhere, if you lynch the same person that moment or a week later, it makes little difference. Blah blah blah more interactions, but who interacts with -them- and how? I think that's far more valuable. You're a sick person to believe you have the right to tell me how to play this game based on your opinion.
¤.†.¤ The OceanLink ¤.†.¤