I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
As I said in my next post, you were really sensitive to my vote. Also, you then go and basically ignore Kami's question to you. Why are you afraid to answer a legitimate question addressed to you?
Also, why imply that a scum!me would talk in thread to a scum!kami? Last I checked, the scum have a quicktime they can use at any time, thus would have no need to even post something like what you accuse of being scum talking to scum in thread.
Already said that I didn't know scum had Daychat when I said that.
#151, Karn: I actually thought you had answered it. But to answer your question, no, as you go out of your way to antagonise Iso at every turn. You not answering Iso isn’t something I find all that surprising.
You think I go out of my way to antagonize Iso? How so?
You do remember Iso's Inflammable Mafia, right?
Two things:
1. You think I purposely went out of my way and antagonized Iso that whole game?
2. You think that's the only game I've ever played with Iso (or you think I've antagonized Iso every other game I've played with him)?
As I said in my next post, you were really sensitive to my vote. Also, you then go and basically ignore Kami's question to you. Why are you afraid to answer a legitimate question addressed to you?
Nice smear. "Afraid" - not even close.
Then why haven't you answered it? I mean your whole case on me is basically this:
I must be scum because I know you know that not voting 1st post is scummy. Therefore I vote you as scum to appear town because I know I can push an easy lynch on you for being scum due to the fact that that you did not vote first post.
You know what we call that? WIFOM. This also reeks of the Too Townie logical fallacy.
Also, why imply that a scum!me would talk in thread to a scum!kami? Last I checked, the scum have a quicktime they can use at any time, thus would have no need to even post something like what you accuse of being scum talking to scum in thread.
Already said that I didn't know scum had Daychat when I said that.
Yes you did, so nothing more to discuss on this one.
I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'll give this game more thought in the morning, I just finished reading the rest of the pages that I haven't commented on, but my brain isn't in a coherent state atm.
ALRIGHT. Since I spent the entirety of when I got home to when I went to bed installing new hardware for my computer that happened to come in the mail today (so excited) and dealing with drive issues (wireless card not granting wifi for an hour FTL), I didn't start my re-read like I wanted to. Welp, doing that today. I hate not having free time anymore.
Anyway, for those who are new my mafia play, when I do rereads I just post thoughts willy-nilly in the order I have them and I never erase anything (even if i contradict myself later). Enjoy.
-First and foremost, I almost forgot that the scum have a day-chat again. That makes this much harder, little things that might illicit the "-nervous shifty eyes for backup-" tinge wouldn't do that anymore because they can just talk to their lover and get things sorted out. This displeases me. But, since scum can't NK, it's balanced I suppose.
Welp, this just got substantially harder. (That's what she said.)
-...Continuing, I'm getting nothing new. I still don't like JAR very much. Iso still gets the same vibe, but not as strong this time around.
-by #60... Why is Karn so annoying all of a sudden.
-I don't like Shockwave either. Hmm.
-iRebel is so righteous. I may or may not be attracted to this in a sexual manner.
-Void needs to get on top of things, but still isn't scum.
-"I have high-reasoning that I wait a bit to reveal." For some reason I'm reminded of when Ghosting tried to use "Voet" to fake out Wheat's win. BTW Karn stop being so annoying.
-"If I do, it'll only be to vote Jey instead. I'm 100% certain one of the two but not both are scum." This [by Wheat].... doesn't sit well with me. It makes me crawl. I'm going to start punching every random stranger I meet because of this. (If you're going to ask why, I literally don't have an answer. It just doesn't. It give me dark thoughts.)
-My 109: I'm such an idiot. Jesus. Time to quit my job and work as a stripper to status quo this realization.
-Hmm. Where Shockwave? Did they V/LA? I don't remember. I don't like this.
-Niv is sitll pretty town but I have a bad feeling about them. That's not good. Kind of like the one I had about Seppel in MM, and if I realize they're the same, I'm going to cry. Except there's no SK in this game.
-There's Shockwave! I also managed to figure out that "PTAP" means 'post to avoid prod' all on my own! I'm so good! (No I'm not.)
-Why did Shockwave and JAR become active together? I realize there's legitimate questions/answering going on but... I don't like this.
-Oop, looks like I caught up to where I left off. Time to go back into standard reply mode.
---
@JAR #152: Oh really? Might? Just gonna... hold that thought there in case its convenient that I am scum after all? Maybe that's not fair, but it's what I immediately think of to be honest.
---
Void #159: Because what do either of us have to gain from me just laughing? What does anyone have to gain? It's laughable, but this is mafia, so I'll reply regardless.
Jey K's early posts look... Bad. Intentional? Reaction baiting to determine alignments?
Nah, I'm just honestly really bad at mafia. I post to gauge reactions often, but Those definitely weren't intentional. -shrug-
---
Tanarin vs Karn seems null, this will be more interesting after a flip or two maybe.
---
ALRIGHT GUYS. FINAL THOUGHTS.
Iso (albeit slightly less so but there's no way I'm giving this up yet), Shockwave, and JAR are my top suspects, I need to figure out Niv and Wheat, and everyone else is a fingernail.
Time to disappear until the weekend because I have a metric button of role-play writing to catch up on (Six different topics to be precise).
Anyway, for those who are new my mafia play, when I do rereads I just post thoughts willy-nilly in the order I have them and I never erase anything (even if i contradict myself later). Enjoy.
That's pretty self-conscious. You've spent a bunch of time this game justifying yourself. Why?
A quick scan through the thread suggests there isn't anyone who actually hasn't posted in the last 2-3 days. It's just the volume of posts each day is really low, and I can't really do anything about that.
And you have 8 days and 12 hours left.
Vote count tomorrow. Though I also don't think it's changed more than a vote or two since the one from four days ago.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Now that my head's in the game, let's get to this.
So, first thing's first - Karn vs. Tan in the beginning of the game. I buy that Karn's aware of people not voting in RVS being a common scum thing, so it makes sense to me that he would see if anyone would attack him for it. That said, I don't see how he chalks Tan's attack up to malicious intent - rather, I read it as inexperience. That may be hard to swallow from a player as non-green as Tanarin is, but if you present a person with a narrow scope in which to view things, their perception becomes reality. I think Tan legitimately believed his push on Karn. In short, I think this is town vs. town.
I opted not to dive in that, but rather, I put a floating vote on Karn to see if anyone else would weakly /barn Tan's argument and bite.
I always people who continue RVS after it's been ended without advancing the gamestate beyond their RVS vote. IGMEOY, Wheat.
Shockwave doesn't take a hard stance on Karn vs. Tan - this is no bueno, because it looks like he's hedging his bets and seeing which wagon takes off first before he commits. There's been almost no scrutiny towards Shockwave to this point as far as I can recall, so this is probably worth a vote if something more egregious doesn't come up in my reread.
I don't think Wheat ever answered my question on why he wasn't committing to anything in Karn v. Tan. Another , given that I was going to be using that as my sounding board for early reads. That said, I'm still fine with his proposed "pecking order".
Still fine with Archon's #16. I don't understand why Karn thought he was scum from his two posts on page 1.
I wish JAR posted more content in his posts, since I know he's capable of it.
Wheat still answers my theory questions but does no scumhunting and still avoids my questions about the gamestate. Maybe I'll be voting Wheat instead of Shockwave.
Curious why iRebel would pick Sir Karn of all people, though I think I remember his reasoning.
I don't understand why JAR thinks this constitutes a flaw in iRebel's OJ hypothetical. @JAR: What was your train of thought for this post?
Jey's opening post seems fine, aside from the questions I asked in my following post.
Not sure how Arch got the idea that Karn and Tan are busing each other. They're clearly not on the same wavelength.
Jey: What was your read on Karn in Majora's Mask?
Wheat's reasoning for avoiding the Tan/Karn conflict seems weak - why wouldn't he utilize it to check other people's alignments in addition to Tan/Karn's? Wheat also said he would follow up with JAR - let's see if he does.
Jey's explanation for voting me is terribad. No wonder I was voting her.
Void's town.
@JAR: Since when is OMGUS an indicator of scum? Additionally: OMGUS is "hay u voted mi i h8 u" and voting that person in retaliation - which is clearly not my motivation for my vote there. Why did you feel the need to misrepresent my argument?
On the second go-around, I don't know what to make of Jey's self-doubt in her push on me and subsequent "well my case is weak, so". It's definitely within her character to do so, but it's been too long since she's been scum (and she's learned a lot about Mafia since then) for me to make a meta call, here, whereas Majora's Mask was black and white with FHF.
Arch's #59 seems like a leading question - as in, it should have been pretty apparent what I meant at the time. At least, I think so, but I would, seeing as I made the post. Any second opinions?
Also, the timing on Arch's vote seems out of whack, especially combined with the artificial-seeming follow-up with the "LET'S BE CAREFUL GUISE" stuff.
Tanarin we are friends.
Shockwave makes a drive-by post.
Strongly dislike Wheat's strawman in #68.
Bolly needs to post more. With content.
Why isn't Wheat reading my posts? Also, Wheat never followed up with JAR.
#74 reads fake but I like Karn for town so I'm conflicted.
Don't really understand where Jey's fixation on Karn in #75 comes from.
Shockwave continues to contribute absolutely nothing of value to the game.
Bolly's post seems fine, but I'm curious: Bolly: Are you voting Karn for his mannerisms/attitude?
@JAR: What aspect of Wheat's early posting seemed strong to you, aside from his pecking order suggestion?
Archon's question is dumb. It's pretty obvious that the reason I was getting run up is I was playing poorly, which I stated nearly verbatim in my wall-o'-emotion.
Hey iRebel, since you think JAR and Arch are scumbuddies, do you see any interactive tells between the two that might be worth pursuing?
@Void: I wasn't trying to discredit your vote, I wanted your opinion on what else was going on because you're town. Though at this point I'm glad we're on the same page as far as Wheat and Shock go. Also: What information do you expect to have about Karn on Day 2, beyond the flip(s) from any lynch we might push through?
/barn iRebel's #86.
Well I guess that answers my question to Bolly. If I didn't have experience with Karn, myself, and were greener, I might feel the same way. Liking Bolly now.
@Arch: What is your read on JAR? What about Wheat?
Looking forward to seeing if Karn ever reveals his "high-reasoning". Looks like he does just that in the next post. Goodposting, for the most part.
For the record, Karn, I wasn't defending your play - I wanted you to explain your Archon read before I made my own assessment on the gamestate readily apparent, as I was not in the proper mindset to vocalize it as necessary. That said, I should re-read games more often after a period of disconnection, as this is giving me a totally new perspective on things, and that's typically what leads to events like when I solved MM6 on Day 1. (Or was that MM7? I don't remember.) Back to Karn-isms, #92 is patently and demonstrably false and you should feel bad for even thinking that.
Jey's language is really dodgy.
I find it hard to believe that Karn didn't read the OP (#99) after the #74 incident.
What the hell is JAR posting? All I'm reading is, "I have ideas! Oh, but I'm not going to talk about them. Hmm, maybe I should rethink my ideas. But I'm not going to include you guys in on the process." Stop being so damn reticent and taciturn and share with the rest of the class.
And then Bolly mirrors JAR's posting style. What the hell, Bolly?
Thank you, Void, for *****ing at Bolly for me.
@Bolly: But wouldn't all plans for Saintism be flawed to some degree? It depends on how well that player can control the flow of the game, no?
Wheat's #104 is terrible.
Jey's logic behind not attempting to get me lynched ASAP seems reasonable. Her questions to Karn are also fine.
Tan's #111 seems like a weird change of pace out of left field. The timing seems unnatural in that I would expect Tan to be pushing his scum read more now, and getting others to follow. @Tan: Why the strange segue?
A comment in response to Jey's #112: What would be SUPER ideal is if we figured out who was Sainted and got them to be the latter votes on wagons. Just a thought.
@Tan: Who do you suspect aside from Karn right now? Who do you think is most likely to be scum on the Iso wagon at its peak?
blah blah theory blather, not conducive to the laggy, lurky gamestate right now
Looks like Wheat got some of his personality back. @Wheat: why do you like Arch for scum?
@Void: What I was saying was that Popes were unlikely to jump on the middle of the wagon, as that would look like a hasty attempt to avoid being a hammer - meaning that if they don't start a wagon, they're likely to not want to be on the end of one [of a player they Sainted]. Understand? As for the NK thing, the answer to your question is in that post: "or in more traditional setups, Nightkilled for my claim." Also, in fairness towards Jey, I have been known to attempt to speedlynch players on Day 1.
Niv is my hero. And probably town. To answer your question, Niv, I regretted making the post because it made any response that came from Jey probably come out a lot less naturally - meaning she was for sure going to be looking for any mistakes before she posted instead of getting complacent and going ahead without re-reading her post. For your other question, are we presuming that townIso feels he has reasonable evidence that scumIso is scum? Are we using my posts from this game, or are we speaking hypothetically?
@Tanarin: How the hell do you have a town read on Wheat?
Shockwave's #135 is totally non-genuine. "Oh yeah I mean I guess I'll read or something soon; let me ***** about wagon analysis due to the nature of the game to seem townie!" ...and #139 is really not much better. And his #143 is so fake it hurts.
@iRebel: What part of answering my Pope questions did you feel Arch punted? Why did you not bring this up before?
@Arch: Sure, everyone gets wagoned on Day 1 at some point - but in nearly every game they're in? No. And why are you asking Jey a question she's already answered?
@Shockwave: I think you'll find the answers to your questions about me in this post, more than likely. How far into your read are you?
@Wheat: Our locations reverted. I blame Cobalt and Ryan. But mostly Ryan.
Bolly's posts seem fluffy. @Bolly: Can you offer us anything more in-depth than Shockwave-esque posts? Because while I liked your earlier posts, I'm disliking your lack of content.
-
So, overall, I dislike, in order from scummiest to least scummy: Shockwave, Wheat, JAR, and to a smaller extent, Arch. I'm conflicted on my Jey read, Void, Niv, and iRebel seem pretty strongly town, Tan seemed townie at first but his lack of direction is starting to concern me, and Bolly and Karn are probably town.
All things considered, Vote Shockwave
Since we have a lot of inactive/V/LA-esque people, I think a good way to get the vote juice flowing again would be for everyone to post T/S lists with reasoning.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Also, you still haven't answered a question that's been posed to you repeatedly: you marked two potential scum teams, both with me in them, but you didn't go after me. Why?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Also, you still haven't answered a question that's been posed to you repeatedly: you marked two potential scum teams, both with me in them, but you didn't go after me. Why?
Iso:
I think both of them are not contributing enough and I dislike the lack of scumhunting I see from Wheat. JAR has started to add more in the last few pages, though.
Which question did Jey already answer?
Karn: That didn't seem like a complete thought. Were you missing some words?
Iso:
I may be valuing that information more than you, but, yes, the lynch, the vote analysis and behavior analysis.
I do understand.
Karn:
Re Iso Post #193: I have seen Iso buddy up to me as Scum to influence my emotions to Town read him. The rest of the post sounds like Iso as either Town or Scum.
"That's pretty self-conscious. You've spent a bunch of time this game justifying yourself. Why?"
Wouldn't replying to this also be justifying myself? =P I'll humor you; with the Iso thing that was just poor play. I'm not worried about how it makes me look in the slightest though.
As for my re-read, it's becuase I've gotten flak for my style before and I remember being really annoyed as a result so I was trying to prevent that same thing. I don't like to be annoyed while palying Mafia. Thinking back, I can't remember if it was mainly scum or town giving me such a hard time.
---
"Jey: What was your read on Karn in Majora's Mask?"
Town.
"(and she's learned a lot about Mafia since then)"
I highly doubt this ;\ And then when I did have a chance to learn even a tiny bit more SOMEONE GOT ME KILLED DAY/NIGHT 1 TWICE. ;\ (I'm over it though don't worry)
"Jey's language is really dodgy."
Define dodgy?
---
Whoa whoa whoa, Wheat, what the actual @#$% Wheat? You're voting me and not saying -- is this about your dichotomy betwen Iso and myself I asked you to explain but never did?
---
My post is trash, Karn? roflmao.
---
Already posted general town/scum list. I want to vote Shockwave as well but Iso voting them makes my uncomfortable. The thing is, his ketchup was delicious and went really well with my burger so I'm conflicted on my read as well. GDI Ryan.
Well, gut says to vote Shockwave anyway, despite what anyone else may have said.
@everyone who asked: I did not think I had to clarify, but that post was in response to the person who posted above me (I.E. Jey K,) with a slight aside to Iso.
@Iso:
1) Why did I make that change at #111? Well because I did have the thought on my mind, and at the time it was clearly obvious Karn was refusing to answer my questions. So instead of delaying my time on him, I figured I go somewhere else in order to get some other reactions.
2) As for other suspects, Kami has come off as scummy, and I believe iRebel has stumbled upon a good theory. There is also the craptastic meta attempt of his that pings my scumdar. As of late JeY is also pinging my scumdar, and is making me think twice about my lurker scum choice in Shockwave.
3) I dunno what to say. I'm just not seeing the Wheat scumminess you seem to be seeing.
@Karn: Since you seem to be refusing to answer the question, let me ask another: WHY are you not going to answer the question being asked?
I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
@everyone who asked: I did not think I had to clarify, but that post was in response to the person who posted above me (I.E. Jey K,) with a slight aside to Iso.
I'll reply to it since it went completely over my head
IIRC Iso pulled this gambit in a game somewhat recently (was it Drury Lane or Pleasantville, Iso?)
Either way, this type of gambit has been pulled before.
You don't even know how I determined Iso's alignment D1 of both games I've played with him Nor are you aware how much Iso and I discuss mafia theory in general and he likes to tell me about some fun stuff he's pulled off in past games.
It's not that I didn't read nor did I not know, the words I believe were "almost forgot again". I don't have the best of memories and a scum daychat isn't a common mechanic (not that I've played tons of Mafia), but I read the first three posts and then it occurred to me to keep that in mind as I read, thought I should mention my personal struggle with the detail. It's no gambit, you're just painting me in this fabricated light at this point.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Iso: I see. I'll answer your question after Jey gives me an answer.
T/S thoughts right now:
Scum:
Niv - Dislike the wording of his posts. It's adjective/descriptor-heavy: he says things like "overzealous scumteam comments", "makes my skin crawl", "such awful logic it hurts.", etc. Hyperbolic descriptors are more useful to someone trying to convince than to someone seeking knowledge; at this point in the game, that's a scummy mindset.
Wheat - Low-content posts, little rationale behind voting.
Lean Scum:
Iso - Early posts were town, middle posts were scummy, recent posts are townie. Still don't feel good about him, but reviewing my much older games with Iso, I'm starting to see that we clash a lot. Need to think about this more and separate scumminess from my dislike of his playstyle.
Shockwave - Virtually no contribution, still has his vote on Wheat from RVS.
Null:
Tanarin - He's suggested actions that I think would be harmful. However, quite possible that he genuinely believes they were pro-town.
JAR - had an early scum read from the low-content posts, but now he's being useful.
Bolly - need more contribution, but what's there is OK.
iRebel - same thing.
Lean town:
JeY - Self-conscious, but I'm currently reading that as a natural reaction. I do see scumhunting here. Slightly lean town.
Karn - "Lone wolf" posting style. While I don't like it, I feel like scum would prefer to blend in, not stand out so obviously. He's also done well under pressure.
I thought I repeated this like fifty times, but he was being run up and I didn't want him lynched so soon so I unvoted. Currently, the intuitive scummy feeling I had is getting weaker and weaker so I don't even want to lynch him toDay. Unless this gets hella active this weekend for whatever reason and I can see some more content for my other subscribed players this won't be smoothed out.
I'm pretty sure Iso and I were both...I don't have a good word for this at the moment but after we both determined each other's alignments D1 twice in a row we probably changed something so that wasn't a thing anymore.
It's not that I didn't read nor did I not know, the words I believe were "almost forgot again". I don't have the best of memories and a scum daychat isn't a common mechanic (not that I've played tons of Mafia), but I read the first three posts and then it occurred to me to keep that in mind as I read, thought I should mention my personal struggle with the detail. It's no gambit, you're just painting me in this fabricated light at this point.
Not cool.
Yeah, you're right, mainly because I am an idiot and need to re-read who I was addressing in that post. It wasn't you but actually this:
He's sticking to his guns about not knowing that the scum would have daychat. I don't think that's the sort of weak gambit/trick an experienced player would try to pull.
It's kind of annoying because I still don't like his general behaviour.
I really should have quoted that in the first place.
Also is it just me or is Kami's T/S list horrible? Because that looks like a bad T/S list to me. I mean he had a total of ONE interaction I can see with Niv, and has hardly showed any interest of him until just now (When he has had multiple days to do so.) Wheat I see no real mention of in his posts either. I also would have kinda expected myself higher up on his list given how we have clashed early game. And then the JAR listing seems odd, as his one comment I can find on him seems more neutral than indicative of a possible early scum suspicion. Also since when has Self-conscious been used to describe a town mindset? Town have no reason at all to be that way.
This is what I get for thinking it's a good idea posting in mafia thing in the morning.
What's 'this', heckling me on purpose or painting me on purpose? Well, you're just going to say 'yes' so:
-If it's heckling me, I think Tanarin would've done the same thing if anyone else said those exact words. Maybe not the -exact- same thing but.
-Painting me, well it's either because they believe I'm scum and want me lynched with any leverage possible or they're scum and want me lynched any way possible.
"I always No people who continue RVS after it's been ended without advancing the gamestate beyond their RVS vote. IGMEOY, Wheat."
ok
"I don't think Wheat ever answered my question on why he wasn't committing to anything in Karn v. Tan. Another Thumbs Down , given that I was going to be using that as my sounding board for early reads. That said, I'm still fine with his proposed "pecking order"."
My ten foot pole has a sexy mouth man, I told you.
In reality, I was letting the fight have itself out, since such fights usually turn out town vs. town. Spoiler alert: So did this one; Tan and Karn are the two towniest players in the game right now.
"Wheat still answers my theory questions but does no scumhunting and still avoids my questions about the gamestate. Maybe I'll be voting Wheat instead of Shockwave."
I assume the questions I avoided were related to Tan and Karn, if not, reiterate them because I'm not going to look for them. As for scumhunting, I scumhunt when I see something scummy. At that point, I had not.
"Wheat's reasoning for avoiding the Tan/Karn conflict seems weak - why wouldn't he utilize it to check other people's alignments in addition to Tan/Karn's? Wheat also said he would follow up with JAR - let's see if he does."
Because that's not how I work. Also I have no idea whether or not I did.
"Arch's #59 seems like a leading question - as in, it should have been pretty apparent what I meant at the time. At least, I think so, but I would, seeing as I made the post. Slant Any second opinions?"
I don't see any problems with the question.
"Strongly dislike Wheat's strawman in #68."
I would be more likely to call your comment which elicited it a strawman. You made it sound like you thought you were being lynched for cyanosis, which felt like handwaving the real reasons why you were being lynched.
"Why isn't Wheat reading my posts? Also, Wheat never followed up with JAR. Thumbs Down"
Because it was so hella long bro.
RE: JAR: Figured as much.
"I find it hard to believe that Karn didn't read the OP (#99) after the #74 incident."
I don't.
"Wheat's #104 is terrible."
You know what, no, screw you.
Any post in which I reference Onigashima in the Fairyland is a great post.
"Looks like Wheat got some of his personality back. @Wheat: why do you like Arch for scum?"
Oooo goodie I get to decipher Past!Wheat's arcaneries.
It would have had to be 114. Yep, definitely 114. It felt like a silly, obvious answer. I mean that in a bad way; it's hard to explain. He says "well we can't clear anyone" and yeah, duh, of course we can't fully clear. That doesn't really mean that finding out people who are unlikely to be scum is bad.
God this is hard to explain. I guess it sorta feels like he's trying to push the idea that we can't call ANYONE town which is a scum mindset, but that's not fully it either.
Will you accept that I feel it's really scummy and can't figure out exactly why? Because that's what's happening.
"@Wheat: Our locations reverted. Frown I blame Cobalt and Ryan. But mostly Ryan"
I have no idea what you mean by this. What locations?
Jey said: "Whoa whoa whoa, Wheat, what the actual @#$% Wheat? You're voting me and not saying -- is this about your dichotomy betwen Iso and myself I asked you to explain but never did?"
That too. It boils down mostly to this: You don't actually think Iso is scum. You say that you do, but you don't. Your actions and your words are not lining up in the general sense.
Maybe I'll post a full case later but not now because I just went through a lot of housekeeping stuff for two separate games.
What isn't lining up exactly? I already said that I don't need to do anything else because that would only serve to convince myself when I was already convinced.
Iso: Now to answer your question - in this case, I had forgotten about JeY's earlier explanation. Once I found it, though, I still wanted JeY to answer, to see if the mindset was consistent over time.
Tanarin: What early game clash, other than the townhunting thing which I mentioned? Also, re: self-conscious mindset - a lot of people are just that way naturally.
What isn't lining up exactly? I already said that I don't need to do anything else because that would only serve to convince myself when I was already convinced.
@Jey: Dodgy meaning you didn't look like you wanted to be pinned down to one particular stance on whatever it was I said you had dodgy language about.
@Tan: Please go into more detail on your Wheat read. If nothing else, tell me why my interpretations of Wheat's actions in my catch-up post are, in your eyes, incorrect. Also, I'm inclined to believe Arch's T/S list isn't great, mostly based on the fact that I think only 3-4 of our reads line up (sort of).
This is what I get for thinking it's a good idea posting in mafia thing in the morning.
What's 'this', heckling me on purpose or painting me on purpose? Well, you're just going to say 'yes' so:
-If it's heckling me, I think Tanarin would've done the same thing if anyone else said those exact words. Maybe not the -exact- same thing but.
-Painting me, well it's either because they believe I'm scum and want me lynched with any leverage possible or they're scum and want me lynched any way possible.
And which do you think is more likely for the latter?
"I always No people who continue RVS after it's been ended without advancing the gamestate beyond their RVS vote. IGMEOY, Wheat."
ok
Why did you feel the need to respond to this?
Quote from Wheat Grinder »
"Wheat still answers my theory questions but does no scumhunting and still avoids my questions about the gamestate. Maybe I'll be voting Wheat instead of Shockwave."
I assume the questions I avoided were related to Tan and Karn, if not, reiterate them because I'm not going to look for them. As for scumhunting, I scumhunt when I see something scummy. At that point, I had not.
Please point out a game where you have done this in the past as town. Why don't you feel the need to ask questions of people, prod them, push them...anything?
Quote from Wheat Grinder »
"Arch's #59 seems like a leading question - as in, it should have been pretty apparent what I meant at the time. At least, I think so, but I would, seeing as I made the post. Slant Any second opinions?"
I don't see any problems with the question.
So it didn't strike you as misconstruing what I was saying at all? Even though I thought I made it pretty clear that I was demotivated because I'd been playing pretty poorly lately?
Quote from Wheat Grinder »
I would be more likely to call your comment which elicited it a strawman. You made it sound like you thought you were being lynched for cyanosis, which felt like handwaving the real reasons why you were being lynched.
No, that was an "in general" comment - I wasn't necessarily specifically referring to this game, though it wouldn't surprise me if it came up somewhere down the line.
Quote from Wheat_Grinder »
"Wheat's #104 is terrible."
You know what, no, screw you.
no u
"Looks like Wheat got some of his personality back. @Wheat: why do you like Arch for scum?"
Quote from Wheat_Grinder »
Oooo goodie I get to decipher Past!Wheat's arcaneries.
It would have had to be 114. Yep, definitely 114. It felt like a silly, obvious answer. I mean that in a bad way; it's hard to explain. He says "well we can't clear anyone" and yeah, duh, of course we can't fully clear. That doesn't really mean that finding out people who are unlikely to be scum is bad.
God this is hard to explain. I guess it sorta feels like he's trying to push the idea that we can't call ANYONE town which is a scum mindset, but that's not fully it either.
Will you accept that I feel it's really scummy and can't figure out exactly why? Because that's what's happening.
I mean, I can kind of see it.
Quote from Wheat_Grinder »
"@Wheat: Our locations reverted. Frown I blame Cobalt and Ryan. But mostly Ryan"
I have no idea what you mean by this. What locations?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Actually been meaning to say that a couple of days ago as a joke of sorts, but been drinking to damn much to focus. Either way was only halfway through my reread a couple of days ago to answer Iso.
so, I have read the whole game now, but I don't have the time to type up everything I've wanted to do, working 13 hour shifts the last couple days have been "fun". should have had content yesterday or thursday, but didn't. tommorrow after work, I swear, sorry.
"I always No people who continue RVS after it's been ended without advancing the gamestate beyond their RVS vote. IGMEOY, Wheat."
ok
Why did you feel the need to respond to this?
Thoroughness.
Quote from Iso »
Quote from Wheat Grinder »
"Wheat still answers my theory questions but does no scumhunting and still avoids my questions about the gamestate. Maybe I'll be voting Wheat instead of Shockwave."
I assume the questions I avoided were related to Tan and Karn, if not, reiterate them because I'm not going to look for them. As for scumhunting, I scumhunt when I see something scummy. At that point, I had not.
Please point out a game where you have done this in the past as town. Why don't you feel the need to ask questions of people, prod them, push them...anything?
Every game? I prod where I see the opportunity to prod. I have seen less opportunities this game.
Quote from Iso »
Quote from Wheat Grinder »
"Arch's #59 seems like a leading question - as in, it should have been pretty apparent what I meant at the time. At least, I think so, but I would, seeing as I made the post. Slant Any second opinions?"
I don't see any problems with the question.
So it didn't strike you as misconstruing what I was saying at all? Even though I thought I made it pretty clear that I was demotivated because I'd been playing pretty poorly lately?
I won't say it wasn't miscontrued at all, because it was to a small degree. But just because it was a little miscontrued doesn't make it all suddenly invalid; I agree with the point he's making.
Quote from Iso »
Quote from Wheat Grinder »
I would be more likely to call your comment which elicited it a strawman. You made it sound like you thought you were being lynched for cyanosis, which felt like handwaving the real reasons why you were being lynched.
No, that was an "in general" comment - I wasn't necessarily specifically referring to this game, though it wouldn't surprise me if it came up somewhere down the line.
I know you said in general but this game is this game and the past is in the past
If you're so hung up about playing bad then get better again. Let's see you grit those teeth, Simon.
Quote from Iso »
Quote from Wheat_Grinder »
"Wheat's #104 is terrible."
You know what, no, screw you.
no u
Both of us, together?
Quote from Iso »
"Looks like Wheat got some of his personality back. @Wheat: why do you like Arch for scum?"
Quote from Wheat_Grinder »
Oooo goodie I get to decipher Past!Wheat's arcaneries.
It would have had to be 114. Yep, definitely 114. It felt like a silly, obvious answer. I mean that in a bad way; it's hard to explain. He says "well we can't clear anyone" and yeah, duh, of course we can't fully clear. That doesn't really mean that finding out people who are unlikely to be scum is bad.
God this is hard to explain. I guess it sorta feels like he's trying to push the idea that we can't call ANYONE town which is a scum mindset, but that's not fully it either.
Will you accept that I feel it's really scummy and can't figure out exactly why? Because that's what's happening.
I mean, I can kind of see it.
k good.
Quote from Iso »
Quote from Wheat_Grinder »
"@Wheat: Our locations reverted. Frown I blame Cobalt and Ryan. But mostly Ryan"
I have no idea what you mean by this. What locations?
Location: Lionheart
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why does curse suck so much ass
why did the admins think it was a good idea to come here
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UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls
RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty
UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
Mafia Stats
If you say it was RVS you're lying.
Nice smear. "Afraid" - not even close.
Already said that I didn't know scum had Daychat when I said that.
Rhetoric.
Two things:
1. You think I purposely went out of my way and antagonized Iso that whole game?
2. You think that's the only game I've ever played with Iso (or you think I've antagonized Iso every other game I've played with him)?
OK guilty as charged.
Then why haven't you answered it? I mean your whole case on me is basically this:
I must be scum because I know you know that not voting 1st post is scummy. Therefore I vote you as scum to appear town because I know I can push an easy lynch on you for being scum due to the fact that that you did not vote first post.
You know what we call that? WIFOM. This also reeks of the Too Townie logical fallacy.
Yes you did, so nothing more to discuss on this one.
Rhetoric.[/quote]
Since you seem so good at ignoring legit questions, I am going to ask again. Why are you not voting the one common link in your scumbuddy pairings?
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1. Yes.
2. It's the only one I have a recollection of you, iso, and I playing together, so it's what I'm basing my view off of.
UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls
RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty
UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
Mafia Stats
I do still have a scumread on him. That's part of why I asked; now if Void ever flips scum so does Iso.
Because Iso told me so.
It's moreso that Void got way better at not being caught immediately. Iso kept catching him on his very first post, so he had to get better.
omg I have a day off tomorrow and I don't need to do anything else until late afternoon/early evening. I can finally re-read. See you guys then.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
Anyway, for those who are new my mafia play, when I do rereads I just post thoughts willy-nilly in the order I have them and I never erase anything (even if i contradict myself later). Enjoy.
-First and foremost, I almost forgot that the scum have a day-chat again. That makes this much harder, little things that might illicit the "-nervous shifty eyes for backup-" tinge wouldn't do that anymore because they can just talk to their lover and get things sorted out. This displeases me. But, since scum can't NK, it's balanced I suppose.
Welp, this just got substantially harder. (That's what she said.)
-...Continuing, I'm getting nothing new. I still don't like JAR very much. Iso still gets the same vibe, but not as strong this time around.
-by #60... Why is Karn so annoying all of a sudden.
-I don't like Shockwave either. Hmm.
-iRebel is so righteous. I may or may not be attracted to this in a sexual manner.
-Void needs to get on top of things, but still isn't scum.
-"I have high-reasoning that I wait a bit to reveal." For some reason I'm reminded of when Ghosting tried to use "Voet" to fake out Wheat's win. BTW Karn stop being so annoying.
-"If I do, it'll only be to vote Jey instead. I'm 100% certain one of the two but not both are scum." This [by Wheat].... doesn't sit well with me. It makes me crawl. I'm going to start punching every random stranger I meet because of this. (If you're going to ask why, I literally don't have an answer. It just doesn't. It give me dark thoughts.)
-My 109: I'm such an idiot. Jesus. Time to quit my job and work as a stripper to status quo this realization.
-Hmm. Where Shockwave? Did they V/LA? I don't remember. I don't like this.
-Niv is sitll pretty town but I have a bad feeling about them. That's not good. Kind of like the one I had about Seppel in MM, and if I realize they're the same, I'm going to cry. Except there's no SK in this game.
-There's Shockwave! I also managed to figure out that "PTAP" means 'post to avoid prod' all on my own! I'm so good! (No I'm not.)
-Why did Shockwave and JAR become active together? I realize there's legitimate questions/answering going on but... I don't like this.
-Oop, looks like I caught up to where I left off. Time to go back into standard reply mode.
---
@JAR #152: Oh really? Might? Just gonna... hold that thought there in case its convenient that I am scum after all? Maybe that's not fair, but it's what I immediately think of to be honest.
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Void #159: Because what do either of us have to gain from me just laughing? What does anyone have to gain? It's laughable, but this is mafia, so I'll reply regardless.
---
Full time jobs do that to you. As I'm learning. @_@
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http://puu.sh/9LGNB.jpg This made me lol
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Nah, I'm just honestly really bad at mafia. I post to gauge reactions often, but Those definitely weren't intentional. -shrug-
---
Tanarin vs Karn seems null, this will be more interesting after a flip or two maybe.
---
ALRIGHT GUYS. FINAL THOUGHTS.
Iso (albeit slightly less so but there's no way I'm giving this up yet), Shockwave, and JAR are my top suspects, I need to figure out Niv and Wheat, and everyone else is a fingernail.
Time to disappear until the weekend because I have a metric button of role-play writing to catch up on (Six different topics to be precise).
¤.†.¤ The OceanLink ¤.†.¤
¤.†.¤ The OceanLink ¤.†.¤
IIRC Iso pulled this gambit in a game somewhat recently (was it Drury Lane or Pleasantville, Iso?)
Either way, this type of gambit has been pulled before.
@Mod: Can we get a votecount and some prods? We only got a week until deadline by my math.
Come join us in the MTGSalvation chat ||| My trade thread. ||| My Personal Modern Blog: The Fetchlands
That's pretty self-conscious. You've spent a bunch of time this game justifying yourself. Why?
And you have 8 days and 12 hours left.
Vote count tomorrow. Though I also don't think it's changed more than a vote or two since the one from four days ago.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
wat
Also, time4reread!
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Now that my head's in the game, let's get to this.
So, first thing's first - Karn vs. Tan in the beginning of the game. I buy that Karn's aware of people not voting in RVS being a common scum thing, so it makes sense to me that he would see if anyone would attack him for it. That said, I don't see how he chalks Tan's attack up to malicious intent - rather, I read it as inexperience. That may be hard to swallow from a player as non-green as Tanarin is, but if you present a person with a narrow scope in which to view things, their perception becomes reality. I think Tan legitimately believed his push on Karn. In short, I think this is town vs. town.
I opted not to dive in that, but rather, I put a floating vote on Karn to see if anyone else would weakly /barn Tan's argument and bite.
I always people who continue RVS after it's been ended without advancing the gamestate beyond their RVS vote. IGMEOY, Wheat.
Shockwave doesn't take a hard stance on Karn vs. Tan - this is no bueno, because it looks like he's hedging his bets and seeing which wagon takes off first before he commits. There's been almost no scrutiny towards Shockwave to this point as far as I can recall, so this is probably worth a vote if something more egregious doesn't come up in my reread.
I don't think Wheat ever answered my question on why he wasn't committing to anything in Karn v. Tan. Another , given that I was going to be using that as my sounding board for early reads. That said, I'm still fine with his proposed "pecking order".
Still fine with Archon's #16. I don't understand why Karn thought he was scum from his two posts on page 1.
I wish JAR posted more content in his posts, since I know he's capable of it.
Wheat still answers my theory questions but does no scumhunting and still avoids my questions about the gamestate. Maybe I'll be voting Wheat instead of Shockwave.
Curious why iRebel would pick Sir Karn of all people, though I think I remember his reasoning.
I don't understand why JAR thinks this constitutes a flaw in iRebel's OJ hypothetical. @JAR: What was your train of thought for this post?
Jey's opening post seems fine, aside from the questions I asked in my following post.
Not sure how Arch got the idea that Karn and Tan are busing each other. They're clearly not on the same wavelength.
Jey: What was your read on Karn in Majora's Mask?
Wheat's reasoning for avoiding the Tan/Karn conflict seems weak - why wouldn't he utilize it to check other people's alignments in addition to Tan/Karn's? Wheat also said he would follow up with JAR - let's see if he does.
Jey's explanation for voting me is terribad. No wonder I was voting her.
Void's town.
@JAR: Since when is OMGUS an indicator of scum? Additionally: OMGUS is "hay u voted mi i h8 u" and voting that person in retaliation - which is clearly not my motivation for my vote there. Why did you feel the need to misrepresent my argument?
On the second go-around, I don't know what to make of Jey's self-doubt in her push on me and subsequent "well my case is weak, so". It's definitely within her character to do so, but it's been too long since she's been scum (and she's learned a lot about Mafia since then) for me to make a meta call, here, whereas Majora's Mask was black and white with FHF.
Arch's #59 seems like a leading question - as in, it should have been pretty apparent what I meant at the time. At least, I think so, but I would, seeing as I made the post. Any second opinions?
Also, the timing on Arch's vote seems out of whack, especially combined with the artificial-seeming follow-up with the "LET'S BE CAREFUL GUISE" stuff.
Tanarin we are friends.
Shockwave makes a drive-by post.
Strongly dislike Wheat's strawman in #68.
Bolly needs to post more. With content.
Why isn't Wheat reading my posts? Also, Wheat never followed up with JAR.
#74 reads fake but I like Karn for town so I'm conflicted.
Don't really understand where Jey's fixation on Karn in #75 comes from.
Shockwave continues to contribute absolutely nothing of value to the game.
Bolly's post seems fine, but I'm curious: Bolly: Are you voting Karn for his mannerisms/attitude?
@JAR: What aspect of Wheat's early posting seemed strong to you, aside from his pecking order suggestion?
Archon's question is dumb. It's pretty obvious that the reason I was getting run up is I was playing poorly, which I stated nearly verbatim in my wall-o'-emotion.
Hey iRebel, since you think JAR and Arch are scumbuddies, do you see any interactive tells between the two that might be worth pursuing?
@Void: I wasn't trying to discredit your vote, I wanted your opinion on what else was going on because you're town. Though at this point I'm glad we're on the same page as far as Wheat and Shock go. Also: What information do you expect to have about Karn on Day 2, beyond the flip(s) from any lynch we might push through?
/barn iRebel's #86.
Well I guess that answers my question to Bolly. If I didn't have experience with Karn, myself, and were greener, I might feel the same way. Liking Bolly now.
@Arch: What is your read on JAR? What about Wheat?
Looking forward to seeing if Karn ever reveals his "high-reasoning".Looks like he does just that in the next post. Goodposting, for the most part.For the record, Karn, I wasn't defending your play - I wanted you to explain your Archon read before I made my own assessment on the gamestate readily apparent, as I was not in the proper mindset to vocalize it as necessary. That said, I should re-read games more often after a period of disconnection, as this is giving me a totally new perspective on things, and that's typically what leads to events like when I solved MM6 on Day 1. (Or was that MM7? I don't remember.) Back to Karn-isms, #92 is patently and demonstrably false and you should feel bad for even thinking that.
Jey's language is really dodgy.
I find it hard to believe that Karn didn't read the OP (#99) after the #74 incident.
What the hell is JAR posting? All I'm reading is, "I have ideas! Oh, but I'm not going to talk about them. Hmm, maybe I should rethink my ideas. But I'm not going to include you guys in on the process." Stop being so damn reticent and taciturn and share with the rest of the class.
And then Bolly mirrors JAR's posting style. What the hell, Bolly?
Thank you, Void, for *****ing at Bolly for me.
@Bolly: But wouldn't all plans for Saintism be flawed to some degree? It depends on how well that player can control the flow of the game, no?
Wheat's #104 is terrible.
Jey's logic behind not attempting to get me lynched ASAP seems reasonable. Her questions to Karn are also fine.
Tan's #111 seems like a weird change of pace out of left field. The timing seems unnatural in that I would expect Tan to be pushing his scum read more now, and getting others to follow. @Tan: Why the strange segue?
A comment in response to Jey's #112: What would be SUPER ideal is if we figured out who was Sainted and got them to be the latter votes on wagons. Just a thought.
@Tan: Who do you suspect aside from Karn right now? Who do you think is most likely to be scum on the Iso wagon at its peak?
blah blah theory blather, not conducive to the laggy, lurky gamestate right now
Looks like Wheat got some of his personality back. @Wheat: why do you like Arch for scum?
@Void: What I was saying was that Popes were unlikely to jump on the middle of the wagon, as that would look like a hasty attempt to avoid being a hammer - meaning that if they don't start a wagon, they're likely to not want to be on the end of one [of a player they Sainted]. Understand? As for the NK thing, the answer to your question is in that post: "or in more traditional setups, Nightkilled for my claim." Also, in fairness towards Jey, I have been known to attempt to speedlynch players on Day 1.
Niv is my hero. And probably town. To answer your question, Niv, I regretted making the post because it made any response that came from Jey probably come out a lot less naturally - meaning she was for sure going to be looking for any mistakes before she posted instead of getting complacent and going ahead without re-reading her post. For your other question, are we presuming that townIso feels he has reasonable evidence that scumIso is scum? Are we using my posts from this game, or are we speaking hypothetically?
@Tanarin: How the hell do you have a town read on Wheat?
Shockwave's #135 is totally non-genuine. "Oh yeah I mean I guess I'll read or something soon; let me ***** about wagon analysis due to the nature of the game to seem townie!" ...and #139 is really not much better. And his #143 is so fake it hurts.
@iRebel: What part of answering my Pope questions did you feel Arch punted? Why did you not bring this up before?
@Arch: Sure, everyone gets wagoned on Day 1 at some point - but in nearly every game they're in? No. And why are you asking Jey a question she's already answered?
@Shockwave: I think you'll find the answers to your questions about me in this post, more than likely. How far into your read are you?
@Wheat: Our locations reverted. I blame Cobalt and Ryan. But mostly Ryan.
Bolly's posts seem fluffy. @Bolly: Can you offer us anything more in-depth than Shockwave-esque posts? Because while I liked your earlier posts, I'm disliking your lack of content.
-
So, overall, I dislike, in order from scummiest to least scummy: Shockwave, Wheat, JAR, and to a smaller extent, Arch. I'm conflicted on my Jey read, Void, Niv, and iRebel seem pretty strongly town, Tan seemed townie at first but his lack of direction is starting to concern me, and Bolly and Karn are probably town.
All things considered, Vote Shockwave
Since we have a lot of inactive/V/LA-esque people, I think a good way to get the vote juice flowing again would be for everyone to post T/S lists with reasoning.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Welcome back, Iso. I missed ya.
Unvote, Vote: Jey K
I'll answer your questions after dinner because I can't remember why I didn't like Archon offhand.
Unvote.
Vote: JeY K
I do have to note: what in case JeY K and Iso
@Those more experienced with Iso: Is 193 out of scum!Iso's range?
Also, you still haven't answered a question that's been posed to you repeatedly: you marked two potential scum teams, both with me in them, but you didn't go after me. Why?
@Karn: I would say no but my ego is the size of Jupiter so I may not be the best person to answer that.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
What?
I'm not answering this.
I think both of them are not contributing enough and I dislike the lack of scumhunting I see from Wheat. JAR has started to add more in the last few pages, though.
Which question did Jey already answer?
Karn: That didn't seem like a complete thought. Were you missing some words?
I may be valuing that information more than you, but, yes, the lynch, the vote analysis and behavior analysis.
I do understand.
Karn:
Re Iso Post #193: I have seen Iso buddy up to me as Scum to influence my emotions to Town read him. The rest of the post sounds like Iso as either Town or Scum.
It
remind me to respond to iso tomorrow
Wouldn't replying to this also be justifying myself? =P I'll humor you; with the Iso thing that was just poor play. I'm not worried about how it makes me look in the slightest though.
As for my re-read, it's becuase I've gotten flak for my style before and I remember being really annoyed as a result so I was trying to prevent that same thing. I don't like to be annoyed while palying Mafia. Thinking back, I can't remember if it was mainly scum or town giving me such a hard time.
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"Jey: What was your read on Karn in Majora's Mask?"
Town.
"(and she's learned a lot about Mafia since then)"
I highly doubt this ;\ And then when I did have a chance to learn even a tiny bit more SOMEONE GOT ME KILLED DAY/NIGHT 1 TWICE. ;\ (I'm over it though don't worry)
"Jey's language is really dodgy."
Define dodgy?
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Whoa whoa whoa, Wheat, what the actual @#$% Wheat? You're voting me and not saying -- is this about your dichotomy betwen Iso and myself I asked you to explain but never did?
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My post is trash, Karn? roflmao.
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Already posted general town/scum list. I want to vote Shockwave as well but Iso voting them makes my uncomfortable. The thing is, his ketchup was delicious and went really well with my burger so I'm conflicted on my read as well. GDI Ryan.
Well, gut says to vote Shockwave anyway, despite what anyone else may have said.
Vote: Shockwave
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@Iso:
1) Why did I make that change at #111? Well because I did have the thought on my mind, and at the time it was clearly obvious Karn was refusing to answer my questions. So instead of delaying my time on him, I figured I go somewhere else in order to get some other reactions.
2) As for other suspects, Kami has come off as scummy, and I believe iRebel has stumbled upon a good theory. There is also the craptastic meta attempt of his that pings my scumdar. As of late JeY is also pinging my scumdar, and is making me think twice about my lurker scum choice in Shockwave.
3) I dunno what to say. I'm just not seeing the Wheat scumminess you seem to be seeing.
@Karn: Since you seem to be refusing to answer the question, let me ask another: WHY are you not going to answer the question being asked?
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Mafia Stats
I'll reply to it since it went completely over my head
You don't even know how I determined Iso's alignment D1 of both games I've played with him Nor are you aware how much Iso and I discuss mafia theory in general and he likes to tell me about some fun stuff he's pulled off in past games.
What kind of gambit are you talking about?
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Not cool.
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{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
^This one.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
T/S thoughts right now:
Scum:
Niv - Dislike the wording of his posts. It's adjective/descriptor-heavy: he says things like "overzealous scumteam comments", "makes my skin crawl", "such awful logic it hurts.", etc. Hyperbolic descriptors are more useful to someone trying to convince than to someone seeking knowledge; at this point in the game, that's a scummy mindset.
Wheat - Low-content posts, little rationale behind voting.
Lean Scum:
Iso - Early posts were town, middle posts were scummy, recent posts are townie. Still don't feel good about him, but reviewing my much older games with Iso, I'm starting to see that we clash a lot. Need to think about this more and separate scumminess from my dislike of his playstyle.
Shockwave - Virtually no contribution, still has his vote on Wheat from RVS.
Null:
Tanarin - He's suggested actions that I think would be harmful. However, quite possible that he genuinely believes they were pro-town.
JAR - had an early scum read from the low-content posts, but now he's being useful.
Bolly - need more contribution, but what's there is OK.
iRebel - same thing.
Lean town:
JeY - Self-conscious, but I'm currently reading that as a natural reaction. I do see scumhunting here. Slightly lean town.
Karn - "Lone wolf" posting style. While I don't like it, I feel like scum would prefer to blend in, not stand out so obviously. He's also done well under pressure.
Town:
Void - Liking the analysis, activity.
unvote Iso
vote Wheat
FoS Niv
I thought I repeated this like fifty times, but he was being run up and I didn't want him lynched so soon so I unvoted. Currently, the intuitive scummy feeling I had is getting weaker and weaker so I don't even want to lynch him toDay. Unless this gets hella active this weekend for whatever reason and I can see some more content for my other subscribed players this won't be smoothed out.
I'm pretty sure Iso and I were both...I don't have a good word for this at the moment but after we both determined each other's alignments D1 twice in a row we probably changed something so that wasn't a thing anymore.
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Yeah, you're right, mainly because I am an idiot and need to re-read who I was addressing in that post. It wasn't you but actually this:
I really should have quoted that in the first place.
Also is it just me or is Kami's T/S list horrible? Because that looks like a bad T/S list to me. I mean he had a total of ONE interaction I can see with Niv, and has hardly showed any interest of him until just now (When he has had multiple days to do so.) Wheat I see no real mention of in his posts either. I also would have kinda expected myself higher up on his list given how we have clashed early game. And then the JAR listing seems odd, as his one comment I can find on him seems more neutral than indicative of a possible early scum suspicion. Also since when has Self-conscious been used to describe a town mindset? Town have no reason at all to be that way.
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This is what I get for thinking it's a good idea posting in mafia thing in the morning.
What's 'this', heckling me on purpose or painting me on purpose? Well, you're just going to say 'yes' so:
-If it's heckling me, I think Tanarin would've done the same thing if anyone else said those exact words. Maybe not the -exact- same thing but.
-Painting me, well it's either because they believe I'm scum and want me lynched with any leverage possible or they're scum and want me lynched any way possible.
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"I always No people who continue RVS after it's been ended without advancing the gamestate beyond their RVS vote. IGMEOY, Wheat."
ok
"I don't think Wheat ever answered my question on why he wasn't committing to anything in Karn v. Tan. Another Thumbs Down , given that I was going to be using that as my sounding board for early reads. That said, I'm still fine with his proposed "pecking order"."
My ten foot pole has a sexy mouth man, I told you.
In reality, I was letting the fight have itself out, since such fights usually turn out town vs. town. Spoiler alert: So did this one; Tan and Karn are the two towniest players in the game right now.
"Wheat still answers my theory questions but does no scumhunting and still avoids my questions about the gamestate. Maybe I'll be voting Wheat instead of Shockwave."
I assume the questions I avoided were related to Tan and Karn, if not, reiterate them because I'm not going to look for them. As for scumhunting, I scumhunt when I see something scummy. At that point, I had not.
"Wheat's reasoning for avoiding the Tan/Karn conflict seems weak - why wouldn't he utilize it to check other people's alignments in addition to Tan/Karn's? Wheat also said he would follow up with JAR - let's see if he does."
Because that's not how I work. Also I have no idea whether or not I did.
"Arch's #59 seems like a leading question - as in, it should have been pretty apparent what I meant at the time. At least, I think so, but I would, seeing as I made the post. Slant Any second opinions?"
I don't see any problems with the question.
"Strongly dislike Wheat's strawman in #68."
I would be more likely to call your comment which elicited it a strawman. You made it sound like you thought you were being lynched for cyanosis, which felt like handwaving the real reasons why you were being lynched.
"Why isn't Wheat reading my posts? Also, Wheat never followed up with JAR. Thumbs Down"
Because it was so hella long bro.
RE: JAR: Figured as much.
"I find it hard to believe that Karn didn't read the OP (#99) after the #74 incident."
I don't.
"Wheat's #104 is terrible."
You know what, no, screw you.
Any post in which I reference Onigashima in the Fairyland is a great post.
"Looks like Wheat got some of his personality back. @Wheat: why do you like Arch for scum?"
Oooo goodie I get to decipher Past!Wheat's arcaneries.
It would have had to be 114. Yep, definitely 114. It felt like a silly, obvious answer. I mean that in a bad way; it's hard to explain. He says "well we can't clear anyone" and yeah, duh, of course we can't fully clear. That doesn't really mean that finding out people who are unlikely to be scum is bad.
God this is hard to explain. I guess it sorta feels like he's trying to push the idea that we can't call ANYONE town which is a scum mindset, but that's not fully it either.
Will you accept that I feel it's really scummy and can't figure out exactly why? Because that's what's happening.
"@Wheat: Our locations reverted. Frown I blame Cobalt and Ryan. But mostly Ryan"
I have no idea what you mean by this. What locations?
That too. It boils down mostly to this: You don't actually think Iso is scum. You say that you do, but you don't. Your actions and your words are not lining up in the general sense.
Maybe I'll post a full case later but not now because I just went through a lot of housekeeping stuff for two separate games.
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Tanarin: What early game clash, other than the townhunting thing which I mentioned? Also, re: self-conscious mindset - a lot of people are just that way naturally.
Please and thanks, for the second gosh darn time.
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¤.†.¤ The OceanLink ¤.†.¤
(7 to lynch)
Iso - 1 (JAR)
Wheat_Grinder - 2 (Shockwave, KamikazeArchon)
Sir Karn - 1 (Bolly)
JeY k - 3 (Void, Wheat_Grinder, Sir Karn)
KamikazeArchon - 2 (iRebel, Tanarin)
Shockwave - 2 (Iso, JeY k)
Not Voting: Niv
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FOS Count
Iso - JeY k
Niv - Kamikaze
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You have six and a half days left.
Checking prods now.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
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Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
@Tan: Please go into more detail on your Wheat read. If nothing else, tell me why my interpretations of Wheat's actions in my catch-up post are, in your eyes, incorrect. Also, I'm inclined to believe Arch's T/S list isn't great, mostly based on the fact that I think only 3-4 of our reads line up (sort of).
In fairness, I have also feigned ignorance of the OP as town for more town credit.
And which do you think is more likely for the latter?
Why did you feel the need to respond to this?
Please point out a game where you have done this in the past as town. Why don't you feel the need to ask questions of people, prod them, push them...anything?
So it didn't strike you as misconstruing what I was saying at all? Even though I thought I made it pretty clear that I was demotivated because I'd been playing pretty poorly lately?
No, that was an "in general" comment - I wasn't necessarily specifically referring to this game, though it wouldn't surprise me if it came up somewhere down the line.
no u
"Looks like Wheat got some of his personality back. @Wheat: why do you like Arch for scum?"
I mean, I can kind of see it.
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{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Actually been meaning to say that a couple of days ago as a joke of sorts, but been drinking to damn much to focus. Either way was only halfway through my reread a couple of days ago to answer Iso.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
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Metroid Mafia (Off-Site: Mafia Universe)
@Xyre: Sorry
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
Thoroughness.
Every game? I prod where I see the opportunity to prod. I have seen less opportunities this game.
I won't say it wasn't miscontrued at all, because it was to a small degree. But just because it was a little miscontrued doesn't make it all suddenly invalid; I agree with the point he's making.
I know you said in general but this game is this game and the past is in the past
If you're so hung up about playing bad then get better again. Let's see you grit those teeth, Simon.
Both of us, together?
k good.
why does curse suck so much ass
why did the admins think it was a good idea to come here