@shockwave: you failed. there is exactly zero town motivation for posing that question, since town know they're not going to flip mafia. why ever contemplate the scenario. and if you have a town mindset, you would understand that a Day one scum death is a day one scum death. if it happened on page 2, with half the town posting, it's a good thing. It is never a bad play to lynch mafia, and the fact that you so much as posted the question, is very incriminating. if we lynch mafia, day one, at any time during day one, it's a good thing. End.
I let it slide the first time because it wasn't addressed to me but now I'm not gonna.
Why would a town player make such a statement? Serious question, and saying "they wouldn't" is not legitimate because I can think of at least two off the top of my head and at least one of them isn't completely bull *****.
I think I'll officially join the Shockwave Is Probably Town club. They have those little gift baskets AND free food!
I feel like I also wanna join the Generic is Leaning Scum to Me club as well. I mean.. no gift baskets, but theres hookers there.
Reasons: He's laying on the "I'm Town guys!" really hard. In 104 he explicitly says it, then he asks if the scum have Daychat to let us know he totally doesn't know. Also. first neutral mention of the game, which is a minor scumtell.
My feelings on Rhand due to Rhand v. Generic is still null.
Hmm...I would probably have interpreted "trying to put off my lynch" as defeatist...but I can see what you're saying, and your response makes me feel good about you.
Probably would have interpretted? You don't interpret his play as such?
IIRC, there was a bit of this in Apocalypse, and I'm pretty sure I've read other games where open coaching occurred, but without searching it out, I couldn't point you to it.
I just can't help but think that those types of interactions are unlikely because, should the coach get lynched, it makes their other scumbuddy look bad. Making that happen intentionally doesn't make sense.
More than I'd really prefer, recently, but the recent ones are all in-progress games. Two GIP, plus...two or three other games, I believe.
Then why were you so quick to dismiss your fry questions based on someone elses assertion that Gen is cautious? Do you, personally, have that experience with him?
Well, I knew it as a scumtell. Thus my vote. But I'm obviously not as skilled as you are. And that's ignoring that I tend to be terrible at my best.
Anyway, I did like most of your essay. Quite a few points were exactly what I was thinking. No reason for me to /barn it. But then the "scumtell" and the potential that you were reaching out for low hanging fruit made me wary. However, without such insidious context of the scumtell, it looks a lot more genuine.
Did you read the rest of Niv's post before voting, TK?
@Tk: I am always wary when someone RVS votes outside of RVS. Your reasoning on Niv's self-vote wasn't correct, and it looked hypocritical to single out his RVS vote from a larger post in which he even revotes while placing a RvS vote yourself.
I don't like your 'misrep' comment you added. Do you think I am scum?
Why are you wary of that? What does it say about a person's alignment and why?
But Killjoy's similar behavior looks even worse, especially the way he tried to hide his vote in the middle of a post.
"Tried to hide it in the middle of my post"? Seriously? You're saying that I thought people might notice it less if it was the second of three points I made in that post? Especially considering I had 3 one-sentence responses that post?
He votes for TK based on not agreeing with how TK interpreted a post. But that is just it. TK's post was obviously a 'this is how it looks from my perspective' post. Voting someone for something like that doesn't make sense.
So, the fact that he literally had to ignore the entire rest of the post he voted him for equates to his perspective? His perspective is that Niv is trying not to push buttons. That entire post was Niv doing that. How is it a matter of perspective when to reach said perspective you have to gauge out your eyes with a rusty nail before you can logically reach it?
Either A)TK is correctly interpreting the post, which doesn't make TK scum, or B)he is incorrectly interpreting it, which..still doesn't make him scum. You can't really argue here that he is trying to misrepresent Niv based on one single post that literally everyone will read. It just looks like Killjoy liked this wagon enough to go along with it, and tried to justify that afterward.
You are massively oversimplifying things. You're also discounting the idea that any actual thought process should be used in TK's interpretation of Niv's post... but when I interpret TK's post, my thought process should have came to your conclusions?
Why are you giving TK a pass for what you consider a bad interpretation on a post, but are so quick to jump on me for a similar transgression?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
While Rhand's initial vote on cyan was flimsier than 1 ply industrial toilet paper, I see where the "defense of cyan from shockwave" was. it was also flimsier than 1 ply industrial toilet paper, but it did happen. and you asked Rhand that question, and he responded in the post immediately prior to you.
Rhand's still gonna keep my vote, but your extreme lack of reading the thread is pretty awful too. like, really awful.
@Cyan, and really everyone missing what's going on really:
I wouldn't be so hasty as to call that not having fun yet Rhand.
Shockwave did defend you, it's actually kinda explicit. the vote is awful, the defense is worthless, unnecessary and meaningless, but it did happen. it kinda hurts my brain that any of this did happen, but it did.
@7hawk77: there's 51 posts prior to yours. is that really the only thing you have to say? what did you mean to gain from this post, and why did you not comment on anything else. there's alot to discuss, and you go out of your way to say nothing at all.
Oh, no wonder I missed the whole "Shockwave defending Cyan" argument. It's so thinly stretched that its hard to see. Its part of his long-winded post, that I assumed he was writing with RVS in his head. Personally, I don't see the weight that others seem to be gathering from it.
I'm well aware that my read on you was that you were town. However, after you said:
Quote from Rhand »
That's not what Shock was doing. He was trying to get suspicion off Cyan, not himself.
I had no clue what posts you were talking about. I asked you show me the specific posts you were referring to, and you didn't. You just talked about the issue further. After all that is when I voted you.
@Not unvoting Cyan post realization (SNL): I'm not against letting an RVS vote to linger if one, I am still getting a feel for players in a game and two, the vote isn't likely to be a big deal at the time (at the time SNL asked this Cyan was L-8 and even after this there hasn't been much interest in him.)
But why would you keep the vote on him after you essentially decided that you made a mistake voting him?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@Tk: I am always wary when someone RVS votes outside of RVS. Your reasoning on Niv's self-vote wasn't correct, and it looked hypocritical to single out his RVS vote from a larger post in which he even revotes while placing a RvS vote yourself.
I don't like your 'misrep' comment you added. Do you think I am scum?
I always RVS vote outside of RVS. Because of my (US) night schedule, when I log on for the beginning of the Day, I'm always a good deal behind everyone else. It's also why I have a generally low post count. There's no one around to spar with. Because I got tired of never getting to have an RVS vote, my first post always has an RVS vote now, no matter how far along the game has gone. It's always why I'm willing to back off of Niv and say my vote was poorly placed. It was a meta thing I didn't know, much like what you're attacking me for.
As for whether you're mafia, I am unsure. I feel between you or Generic, one is mafia. The question is which. Generic is... Generic. I have trouble reading him. As for you, I dislike your attack on me, but ignoring my OMGUS gut reaction to it and looking at it from your perspective, I can see your reasoning.
Well, I knew it as a scumtell. Thus my vote. But I'm obviously not as skilled as you are. And that's ignoring that I tend to be terrible at my best.
Anyway, I did like most of your essay. Quite a few points were exactly what I was thinking. No reason for me to /barn it. But then the "scumtell" and the potential that you were reaching out for low hanging fruit made me wary. However, without such insidious context of the scumtell, it looks a lot more genuine.
Did you read the rest of Niv's post before voting, TK?
I did. Is it impossible for scum to make accurate arguments?
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A valid one? You made the assertion that Gen was obnoxious, but not in a scummy way. That implies that there's a scummy way to be obnoxious. Can you describe this scummy way, and if in your description you can describe how Generic does not fit that description, that would be awesome.
Also, 135 has some things that require your attention.
]I did. Is it impossible for scum to make accurate arguments?
It's not the accuracy of his arguments that caused you to vote him though. It was his motive, which you assigned as "trying not to push buttons", which is obviously not true if you read the rest of his post, which you say you did.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Cyan: What would he have to do to have his obnoxiousness be scummy?
Generalised scum tells. Essentially you are claiming a scum read on me based on language tells, some of the worst reasonings you could possibly use. And that's because you have seen the cases that have been brought up fall apart easily because they were built on bull*****. So you had a little go at making something up that is non specific in the hope it might work better, but you are basically hiding behind that rather than analysing my posts.
TK is getting scum read for focusing on a specific post and missing of all the rest that has happened. You are basing a scum read on me on the use of the word neutral and that is pointed out I'm town. Which are I believ in one post. So if TK is scum for that you by extension must be too... Except reasoning like that is crap. You are suspicious (wouldn't call it a scum read at this stage) because you are trying to sell a generic (no pun intended) case.
And your cop out on Rhand was even more pathetic.
You are doing scummy things. So, they get a lean scum flag wave from me. It's part of my process. It's also a gut read. I'll analyze your posts when I have better/more information confirmed that I can use to determine your alignment more soundly.
And you're oversimplifying everything I said in that post. My scum read on TK is because he's voting Niv for a bad reason. My lean scum read on you is based not on language tells, but on your consistent need to assert that you're town somehow (IIRC you've done it at least twice now). That plus the neutral mention point to a possible mindset: a mindset that is less likely to be town than others.
Why do you feel the need to discredit my case if, in your view, it's a crap case? Why do you care that I'm leaning scum on you at this stage?
And it's not a cop out on Rhand. I have a null read on him. Does everyone have to have an alignment picked out for every player?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
A valid one? You made the assertion that Gen was obnoxious, but not in a scummy way. That implies that there's a scummy way to be obnoxious. Can you describe this scummy way, and if in your description you can describe how Generic does not fit that description, that would be awesome.
Also, 135 has some things that require your attention.
Translation: "please do the work for me cyan because I cannot make a specific read on generic by myself and need someone to give me something to work with."
That's not even close to what I meant. No, Cyan is making an assertion about you. I want him to explain it. I can't read his mind.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
The Wheat walked up to the Cyanide stand and he said to the man, running the stand, "Hey!" bop bop bop "Got any examples?"
And then he waddled away
@Seppel: Why should I vote for SNL instead of TK? I don't understand why SNL is scum from the post you posted.
Meanwhile, I don't like Killjoy. Time to figure out why.
Well in the meantime I have determined that Hunger isn't scum with TK due to post 63; it's just too genuine. TK and killjoy interactions in 61 and 84 don't seem quite as genuine. That's soft evidence at best but I'm okay with that for now.
Sir Karn (88) also thinks killjoy is scum and that's weird to me; I thought we usually disagreed with each other.
Killjoy jumps on TK (93) to become the third vote. I'm not sure how I feel about that, since that conflicts at least minorly with my idea of KJ/TK scumteam, but the way he jumps on is sorta flaccid.
Looking at TK's posts at the sametime, TK still hasn't made a useful post.
Cyan's "KJ is trying to hide his vote in the middle of his post" makes no sense to me and reeks of reaching. Therefore Cyan is still probably town.
@Cyan: Did you actually read Niv's post? The one that TK voted him over? It feels so badly like you are out of the loop on that one.
@TK: Same question as I asked Cyan, actually.
Conclusion: My gut tells me KJ is scum but there's some conflict there. On the other hand, I'm even more certain TK is scum.
]I did. Is it impossible for scum to make accurate arguments?
It's not the accuracy of his arguments that caused you to vote him though. It was his motive, which you assigned as "trying not to push buttons", which is obviously not true if you read the rest of his post, which you say you did.
What do you think of Cyan?
Obviously, as a conservative, I'm racially obligated to say that I hate the President and that he's a traitor...
Cyan gets a lean town for me. I like that he saw what I saw in Shockwave, but I'm always wary of when someone explains my actions, whether right or wrong. I appreciate his defense, but it has the slight taste of tuna. Don't get me wrong, I love tuna sandwiches, just not in my Mafia.
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Well, you see, Cyan made a joke about if something is true, then he's President Obama. But he's not President Obama, so that something was false. I stated he must be President Obama, because he's lying about not being President Obama, which is something President Obama would totally do. When asked for my thoughts on Cyan, I gave a joke about political stances and how they've been stereotyped.
Or did you mean:
I saw Shockwave's response to Rhand's pressure as over-whelmed town.
Cyan saw Shockwave's response to Rhand's pressure as overwhelmed town.
I like when people see the same response as I see it.
Cyan tried to explain my reasoning for voting Niv.
I appreciate the effort, but it smells of buddying. Might not be, but then I'm paranoid and assume the worst.
So while I get town vibes, it's dampened a bit.
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No I said it was insulted you think I would use cheap tricks, referring to the claim I was merely arguing with you to make you unbelievable and somehow enable a flaw. But you have now just devalued even a claim of a flaw by suggesting it stops you lookig elsewhere... that's the same for anyone who tunnels, and if you are so sure I'm scum (which you clearly aren't) why does it matter if you focus on me? The poit is to lynh scum yet you talk like you would be wasting time on me... And you know that because you know I'm town and know you can't get me mislynched on your own. So it would be a waste of your one when there is low hanging fruit to be had.
Now you insult me. Going after low hanging fruit?
You did notice that I'm not 100% sure on my scumread on you. Then why do you find it strange that I don't want to tunnel on you and want to keep engaging others instead?
Quote from Generic »
The gut read came from the way you voted for 4 different people in the first three posts, felt like overcompensating for what scum would normally do in a cautious start. The general tell is to not make waves but you were making too many, it's a tell in itself to try and second guess a scum hunter.
How is that different from my other town games? I always come out of the bat aggressively, and I settle my vote when I found someone I'm pretty sure of, using it to apply pressure before I do.
Quote from Generic »
And you still haven't addressed my point about why specifically you when you claim I'm this mafia juggernaut (you didn't but in interpreting it that way ) who can twist everything against someone to take them down... But why are you so damned important? As I pointed out I have inside knowledge on how you to I, you suck at being able to read me and I know you will have less time for this game as we move towards July. To me you would be he perfect person to keep around. Yet you seem to think I made a deliberate move on you.
Which is funny cos the original argument was tht I was being too careful towards you, even though I had voted for you... And even though it's clear as day even when I look back on our exchange it few into the beast it has organically (with your suspicion of me being the only thing that looks forced until you realised you weren't getting rid of me). So what's the master plan you think I have?
I don't know what 'masterplan' you have. We both know you're very well capable of getting someone mislynched Day 1 and wurm out of the suspicion over that on Day 2.
I don't know why you seem to think I'm so important. You've mentioned the league points a few times. Maybe you want me out early because I ended high in the competition last year?
Or maybe you are town and just really convinced that I'm scum, but I can't wrap my head around that.
Re: Rhand v Generic
- Rhand seems to be on his back foot a bit which I haven't seen from either town or scum Rhand, but my sample size is small (1 of each I think?). My gut is leaning scum for a seeming lack of conviction on his stance with Generic. He seems a bit off balance in his replies to Generic's attacks, which says scum being cautious to me. I'm not super confident in that read though, but have Rhand leaning scum based on the interaction.
- Generic is being really aggressive and overly confident, which I typically equate to a null tell and let it be more of a meta call with a slight lean to scum for people I haven't played with. Most of his points are actually clicking with me though and I'm not seeing the scum angle here. He prides himself on being devious and hard to read though, so a play isn't out of the question, but it's something I'm not worried about at this point. Putting him in the town pile for now.
My lack of conviction comes from not being 100% convinced of Generic's alignment.
I'm having a hard time with this situation and would like to take a step back to think about it and look at Generic's play when he's not focussing on me, but he doesn't allow me to do that.
You say his points are clicking with you. Does that mean you agree with his gut scum read because of my multiple early votes and it being a bad thing that I ignored the post where he mentioned that gut read (without reasoning)? Because that was enough for him to single me out and damn me to hell.
I'm well aware that my read on you was that you were town. However, after you said:
Quote from Rhand »
That's not what Shock was doing. He was trying to get suspicion off Cyan, not himself.
I had no clue what posts you were talking about. I asked you show me the specific posts you were referring to, and you didn't. You just talked about the issue further. After all that is when I voted you.
Wow... you call that a reason to vote someone after having meta'd him as town?
Just FYI: I did tell you which specific post I was referring to in my reply to you. Reading is tech I guess.
@Tk: I am always wary when someone RVS votes outside of RVS. Your reasoning on Niv's self-vote wasn't correct, and it looked hypocritical to single out his RVS vote from a larger post in which he even revotes while placing a RvS vote yourself.
I don't like your 'misrep' comment you added. Do you think I am scum?
Why are you wary of that? What does it say about a person's alignment and why?
Scum often does it so they show up in votecounts without having to take responsibility for the vote and because it gives them something non-game-related to talk about.
See below though: in this case it probably is null.
Oh and look Rhand, while you are hiding you have gained more support. I have four theoretical votes now, so you sure you don't want the 1v1?
And your argument with me has actually made the suspicion on you go away, I thought you were selling tunnelling as a flaw?
I feel like ignoring you for the rest of the game now. Stuff like 'while you are hiding' is just obnoxious and uncalled for. I would vote you at this point, but SNL is a sure thing and you sadly aren't.
@Tk: I am always wary when someone RVS votes outside of RVS. Your reasoning on Niv's self-vote wasn't correct, and it looked hypocritical to single out his RVS vote from a larger post in which he even revotes while placing a RvS vote yourself.
I don't like your 'misrep' comment you added. Do you think I am scum?
I always RVS vote outside of RVS. Because of my (US) night schedule, when I log on for the beginning of the Day, I'm always a good deal behind everyone else. It's also why I have a generally low post count. There's no one around to spar with. Because I got tired of never getting to have an RVS vote, my first post always has an RVS vote now, no matter how far along the game has gone. It's always why I'm willing to back off of Niv and say my vote was poorly placed. It was a meta thing I didn't know, much like what you're attacking me for.
As for whether you're mafia, I am unsure. I feel between you or Generic, one is mafia. The question is which. Generic is... Generic. I have trouble reading him. As for you, I dislike your attack on me, but ignoring my OMGUS gut reaction to it and looking at it from your perspective, I can see your reasoning.
Do you have some games where you did late RVS voting as town that I can check?
Treating this as null if this checks out.
Lol, so you want everyone to know how scummy it is that I feel like ignoring you, which I don't actually do, but you think it's alright to ignore my questions?
And please explain why you think it's a productive way of having a day 1 where everyone just focusses on 2 people and ignores all the rest. Even if you really believe that I am scum, that is still a bad way to play the game.
Well, you see, Cyan made a joke about if something is true, then he's President Obama. But he's not President Obama, so that something was false. I stated he must be President Obama, because he's lying about not being President Obama, which is something President Obama would totally do. When asked for my thoughts on Cyan, I gave a joke about political stances and how they've been stereotyped.
Or did you mean:
I saw Shockwave's response to Rhand's pressure as over-whelmed town.
Cyan saw Shockwave's response to Rhand's pressure as overwhelmed town.
I like when people see the same response as I see it.
Cyan tried to explain my reasoning for voting Niv.
I appreciate the effort, but it smells of buddying. Might not be, but then I'm paranoid and assume the worst.
So while I get town vibes, it's dampened a bit.
I meant the one where you said "I did. Is it impossible for scum to make accurate arguments?" I didn't get what you mean there. And I have no idea what you're going on about now so I assume my question hasn't been answered.
But there is one other thing in that post I'm curious about; you say that Cyan buddied you; what do you think Cyan's motivation for buddying you at that point in time is?
@Tk: I am always wary when someone RVS votes outside of RVS. Your reasoning on Niv's self-vote wasn't correct, and it looked hypocritical to single out his RVS vote from a larger post in which he even revotes while placing a RvS vote yourself.
I don't like your 'misrep' comment you added. Do you think I am scum?
I always RVS vote outside of RVS. Because of my (US) night schedule, when I log on for the beginning of the Day, I'm always a good deal behind everyone else. It's also why I have a generally low post count. There's no one around to spar with. Because I got tired of never getting to have an RVS vote, my first post always has an RVS vote now, no matter how far along the game has gone. It's always why I'm willing to back off of Niv and say my vote was poorly placed. It was a meta thing I didn't know, much like what you're attacking me for.
As for whether you're mafia, I am unsure. I feel between you or Generic, one is mafia. The question is which. Generic is... Generic. I have trouble reading him. As for you, I dislike your attack on me, but ignoring my OMGUS gut reaction to it and looking at it from your perspective, I can see your reasoning.
Do you have some games where you did late RVS voting as town that I can check?
Treating this as null if this checks out.
I was going to say Star Wars. But I went and actually checked it, turns out I made an RVS comment, but no actual vote Same with Maximum Carnage on the Wizards forums. All my other games were made early in RVS or I was Neutral. Though I will point out that I COULD win with the town and was supposed to function as the town's vig in Futurama
Well, you see, Cyan made a joke about if something is true, then he's President Obama. But he's not President Obama, so that something was false. I stated he must be President Obama, because he's lying about not being President Obama, which is something President Obama would totally do. When asked for my thoughts on Cyan, I gave a joke about political stances and how they've been stereotyped.
Or did you mean:
I saw Shockwave's response to Rhand's pressure as over-whelmed town.
Cyan saw Shockwave's response to Rhand's pressure as overwhelmed town.
I like when people see the same response as I see it.
Cyan tried to explain my reasoning for voting Niv.
I appreciate the effort, but it smells of buddying. Might not be, but then I'm paranoid and assume the worst.
So while I get town vibes, it's dampened a bit.
I meant the one where you said "I did. Is it impossible for scum to make accurate arguments?" I didn't get what you mean there. And I have no idea what you're going on about now so I assume my question hasn't been answered.
But there is one other thing in that post I'm curious about; you say that Cyan buddied you; what do you think Cyan's motivation for buddying you at that point in time is?
AH! Yes then, I haven't answered your question, I thought you were asking about the more recent Killjoy question.
My answer to Killjoy was that "Yes I had read Niv's post, but just because his post had accurate attacks didn't make it more or less likely suspicious".
And what I said is that it felt like he was buddying me. Why would he be buddying me? Because he's evil mafia and want's town allies for the future. Though when you phrase it your way with the emphasis on the second you (what do you think Cyan's motivation for buddying YOU at that point in time is?), I now find my paranoia silly. No one buddies with me. I'm too self-destructive. You have made good arguments for putting Cyan into a stronger town position.
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She wants a ride on the pony, dude.
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Well, I knew it as a scumtell. Thus my vote. But I'm obviously not as skilled as you are. And that's ignoring that I tend to be terrible at my best.
Anyway, I did like most of your essay. Quite a few points were exactly what I was thinking. No reason for me to /barn it. But then the "scumtell" and the potential that you were reaching out for low hanging fruit made me wary. However, without such insidious context of the scumtell, it looks a lot more genuine.
so, you're telling me that if I didn't have a meta history of self votes, you'd still be voting me, ignoring the entirety of the rest of my post. I didn't even leave the vote on myself. so, yah, I really don't get you, vote stands. I just go to your second post since my last one. you reiterate that you'd still support that vote outside if a meta didn't exist. yah, still happy.
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@Rhand: you say that shockwave has now linked himself to Cyan. how much of a tell is that to the other when one flips? give me a %.
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@Cyan: I still don't see how you think what TK did was acceptable though. even if it's not a good misrep, it's still a misrep. he completely ignored the rest of my post, the vote in my post, and a myriad of other things, and after being called out by multiple people, he's not trying to buddy with me. he even says in his response to me that "Quite a few points were exactly what I was thinking." but he couldn't get around that STOCK TELL, that didn't mean anything, at all. In what world does someone place that vote, while still agreeing with "Quite a few points"? unless TK is awful. is TK awful?
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@Wheat: I wanted his logic behind his post, or to see if he acknowledged that it was a bad question. but care to fill me in though, since you seem to think it was acceptable, in what world does anyone, want to ask the town "well what if I'm scum?".the only correct answer is "well, we'll lynch you and there will be dead scum".
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@Generic: your 138, am I reading this right, you're excited that more people would vote you in a vacuum than Rhand. WTF? are you okay? do you want to die?
A valid one? You made the assertion that Gen was obnoxious, but not in a scummy way. That implies that there's a scummy way to be obnoxious. Can you describe this scummy way, and if in your description you can describe how Generic does not fit that description, that would be awesome.
Also, 135 has some things that require your attention.
Translation: "please do the work for me cyan because I cannot make a specific read on generic by myself and need someone to give me something to work with."
um, how do you get to that translation at all? I had this exact same issue with Cyan's post, but I wrote it off to Cyan being Cyan. but you, would rather misrep an attempt to get into Cyan's head as someone getting Cyan to do work for you......... that's so far off, it can't be anything but misrep.
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An aside Re Rhand Vs Generic: I'm not longer willing to wade through the mess of this crap. I'll skim your posts, but it's melting my brain. Generic's "1 v 1" ***** is a giant waste of time, no one would ever do that.
so, I'm going to ask the both of you: we have a scenario, where the other one of you is suddenly day killed. Who are you now voting, and why. **** this "1 v 1" bull*****.
@Wheat: I wanted his logic behind his post, or to see if he acknowledged that it was a bad question. but care to fill me in though, since you seem to think it was acceptable, in what world does anyone, want to ask the town "well what if I'm scum?".the only correct answer is "well, we'll lynch you and there will be dead scum".
Info lynches work two ways and the second way gives more than one scum flip. Shockwave was trying to convert himself from a mislynch to an info lynch, which is a townie mindset. Info lynches only work when the town knows what it's going to do with the info.
Goddammit I am too coherent for drunk mafia. This sucks.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Killjoy, I will say again what I always say when someone asks the same thing I see from at least one person every 2-3 games.
I will respond to anything someone wishes to push my way, and when it's crap I will say its crap and give my reason why. Otherwise ta empty words. People want to attack me win bull***** I won't let hem get away with it. I am happy in the spotlight, but you like Rhand seem to want to get out of the argument as soon as you start it.
The reason for the discredit? And yes I'm aware it's a discredit. Because someone I know has played with me before, someone I know can build a case and be a force for good in a town team, resorting to cop outs and crap? I would have preferred you just to say you have yet to analyse me but a guy call is saying scum, at least then I would have been anticipating something more. And then if you chose to include language tells in a more rounded attack you could simply counter my dismissal of them with the point that it's a small part of the bigger picture.
And as I pointed out earlier to Rhand. It frustrates me when people don't see the obvious in my play. Yes I know my own alignment but I'm pretty sure I could tell whether generic was town or scum if I wasn't me... Wow, I just read that back and laughed. I'm sure you get what I'm trying to say.
It angers me that people who don't know me that well have a better grasp of me than those I have had several journeys with in mafia games.
Now what I do appreciate is at least you clarified your position, and I may have over read into the initial comment. But your Rhand point is a cop out, it's just the way I feel.
That's the thing though, I wasn't necessarily trying to start an argument. I posted a thought. I didn't do it so that we can do a huge back and forth on it... just putting my thoughts out there.
And I'm sorry if you feel miffed because we don't know you as well as we should, but keep in mind... most people's online personas aren't the same as their real personalities. I'm a LOT less talkative in real life, for example.
Did you read the rest of Niv's post before voting, TK?
I did. Is it impossible for scum to make accurate arguments?
That's actually the third time that question's been asked. First was Hunger in 63, then me in that post, now Wheat.
Given that Wheat has asked that question now, what does that tell you about him?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@Rhand: you say that shockwave has now linked himself to Cyan. how much of a tell is that to the other when one flips? give me a %.
Shock hasn't linked himself to Cyan exactly. White knighting a townie is a thing. That goes both ways in this case: Cyan has done some defending of Shock as well.
I wouldn't take that kind of conclusion if one of them flips scum.
Quote from Niv »
An aside Re Rhand Vs Generic: I'm not longer willing to wade through the mess of this crap. I'll skim your posts, but it's melting my brain. Generic's "1 v 1" ***** is a giant waste of time, no one would ever do that.
so, I'm going to ask the both of you: we have a scenario, where the other one of you is suddenly day killed. Who are you now voting, and why. **** this "1 v 1" bull*****.
I would vote SNL, which is where my vote was before I got tired of Generic's crap. That should be obvious if you read my posts
Info lynches work two ways and the second way gives more than one scum flip. Shockwave was trying to convert himself from a mislynch to an info lynch, which is a townie mindset. Info lynches only work when the town knows what it's going to do with the info.
Hm, I interpreted it as fearmongering to try and get pressure off him. I guess you can look at it this way as well.
Well, I knew it as a scumtell. Thus my vote. But I'm obviously not as skilled as you are. And that's ignoring that I tend to be terrible at my best.
Anyway, I did like most of your essay. Quite a few points were exactly what I was thinking. No reason for me to /barn it. But then the "scumtell" and the potential that you were reaching out for low hanging fruit made me wary. However, without such insidious context of the scumtell, it looks a lot more genuine.
so, you're telling me that if I didn't have a meta history of self votes, you'd still be voting me, ignoring the entirety of the rest of my post. I didn't even leave the vote on myself. so, yah, I really don't get you, vote stands. I just go to your second post since my last one. you reiterate that you'd still support that vote outside if a meta didn't exist. yah, still happy.
Unlikely. What would probably have happened is that we would have a discussion about the vote and post in whole and either you would have answered satisfactorily and I unvote or not and left it. Do you regularly believe that the votes you've placed were for false reasons? Why would you expect my reasoning to have changed from the first to the last time?
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She wants a ride on the pony, dude.
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Right let's catchup start playing this game. Only four days and we have a ton of posting. First
unvote Shockwave
Not that I don't think he's scummy, his early posting was bad and his wagon justified (I like every vote on it up until Hans'). Since the pressure came off he sunk back into the background.
Second - too much of this game is being dominated too much by Rhand/Generic. It needs to stop. I had to basically skip over all your posting just to try and get through this game and I still couldn't get caught up. Don't know where that Rhand wagon came from. His early posting reads town to me. Didn't have a good read on Generic's early play but I found it noticeable how he increased his aggression right after Karn called him out for it though.
Since I promised content I will say I have early scumreads on Cyan, Hans and TK-421. Reasons tomorrow.
Full catchup will hopefully come tomorrow(ish) - assuming I don't get another few pages of Rhand vrs Generic before then.
@Rhand: I didn't really expect it to change, I just wanted you to talk about anything that isn't Generic, and that went both ways.
TK: I don't think anyone is so bad that they would place the vote you placed, and believe it was the right choice. you inital post still felt like garbage, you said: "Far more problematic is Niv's wonderful vote for himself. Niv, why do you feel the need to avoid pushing buttons?" when you voted for me. you still haven't actually answered what I've wanted you to answer. How the in the bloody world was I not pushing buttons in that post, and why did you ignore the fact that I vote someone at the end of the post? We're gonna pretend I don't have a meta of voting myself, and the scumtell is a valid tell for everyone (dispute the fact that it's not for anyone). in what world is your initial vote still justified. you've spewed garbage like: "well, scum make accurate arguments too" and similar, but you've avoided answering what I actually want to know.
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That aside however, Sir Karn's initial Misrepresentation of Generic where he called him out for being cautious, when he already had a vote on one of the people he was announcing a gut read on is still bothering me, like a lot. you were called out on this, and now you pop back into the thread 3 days later and completely ignore any previous discussion that was going on regarding you, and post a worthless active lurker post. UnVote, Vote Sir Karn
Apparently you haven't seen an actual aggressive Generic.
Saying "I have two gut reads, and I'm going to vote one." Is extremely cautious and unaggressive by his standards.
I find it hilarious that Generic immediately started his forced "1v1 me bro" garbage right after I pointed that out too. Yet people like Niv still want to twist the story to say I'm misrepresenting.
Not that I don't think he's scummy, his early posting was bad and his wagon justified (I like every vote on it up until Hans'). Since the pressure came off he sunk back into the background.
[quote from="TK-421 »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/outside-magic/mafia/560275-archer-mafia-day-1-mole-hunt?comment=115"]@Seppel: Plan on giving any content?
Fair enough.
I'd put it exactly opposite.
I let it slide the first time because it wasn't addressed to me but now I'm not gonna.
Why would a town player make such a statement? Serious question, and saying "they wouldn't" is not legitimate because I can think of at least two off the top of my head and at least one of them isn't completely bull *****.
Vegetable agent?
I feel like I also wanna join the Generic is Leaning Scum to Me club as well. I mean.. no gift baskets, but theres hookers there.
Reasons: He's laying on the "I'm Town guys!" really hard. In 104 he explicitly says it, then he asks if the scum have Daychat to let us know he totally doesn't know. Also. first neutral mention of the game, which is a minor scumtell.
My feelings on Rhand due to Rhand v. Generic is still null.
Probably would have interpretted? You don't interpret his play as such?
I just can't help but think that those types of interactions are unlikely because, should the coach get lynched, it makes their other scumbuddy look bad. Making that happen intentionally doesn't make sense.
Then why were you so quick to dismiss your fry questions based on someone elses assertion that Gen is cautious? Do you, personally, have that experience with him?
Did you read the rest of Niv's post before voting, TK?
Delinquency??? OOOH Can I use some of Cyril's vacation time? He's a workhorse and will never use it anyway. Then my vacation will be sanctioned!!!
Why are you wary of that? What does it say about a person's alignment and why?
"Tried to hide it in the middle of my post"? Seriously? You're saying that I thought people might notice it less if it was the second of three points I made in that post? Especially considering I had 3 one-sentence responses that post?
So, the fact that he literally had to ignore the entire rest of the post he voted him for equates to his perspective? His perspective is that Niv is trying not to push buttons. That entire post was Niv doing that. How is it a matter of perspective when to reach said perspective you have to gauge out your eyes with a rusty nail before you can logically reach it?
You are massively oversimplifying things. You're also discounting the idea that any actual thought process should be used in TK's interpretation of Niv's post... but when I interpret TK's post, my thought process should have came to your conclusions?
Why are you giving TK a pass for what you consider a bad interpretation on a post, but are so quick to jump on me for a similar transgression?
Cyan: What would he have to do to have his obnoxiousness be scummy?
Like..what kind of question is that even?
As for whether you're mafia, I am unsure. I feel between you or Generic, one is mafia. The question is which. Generic is... Generic. I have trouble reading him. As for you, I dislike your attack on me, but ignoring my OMGUS gut reaction to it and looking at it from your perspective, I can see your reasoning. I'm too lazy for wikipedia. What's VGB? I did. Is it impossible for scum to make accurate arguments?
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Also, 135 has some things that require your attention.
It's not the accuracy of his arguments that caused you to vote him though. It was his motive, which you assigned as "trying not to push buttons", which is obviously not true if you read the rest of his post, which you say you did.
What do you think of Cyan?
And you're oversimplifying everything I said in that post. My scum read on TK is because he's voting Niv for a bad reason. My lean scum read on you is based not on language tells, but on your consistent need to assert that you're town somehow (IIRC you've done it at least twice now). That plus the neutral mention point to a possible mindset: a mindset that is less likely to be town than others.
Why do you feel the need to discredit my case if, in your view, it's a crap case? Why do you care that I'm leaning scum on you at this stage?
And it's not a cop out on Rhand. I have a null read on him. Does everyone have to have an alignment picked out for every player?
That's not even close to what I meant. No, Cyan is making an assertion about you. I want him to explain it. I can't read his mind.
The Wheat walked up to the Cyanide stand and he said to the man, running the stand, "Hey!" bop bop bop "Got any examples?"
And then he waddled away
@Seppel: Why should I vote for SNL instead of TK? I don't understand why SNL is scum from the post you posted.
Meanwhile, I don't like Killjoy. Time to figure out why.
Well in the meantime I have determined that Hunger isn't scum with TK due to post 63; it's just too genuine. TK and killjoy interactions in 61 and 84 don't seem quite as genuine. That's soft evidence at best but I'm okay with that for now.
Sir Karn (88) also thinks killjoy is scum and that's weird to me; I thought we usually disagreed with each other.
Killjoy jumps on TK (93) to become the third vote. I'm not sure how I feel about that, since that conflicts at least minorly with my idea of KJ/TK scumteam, but the way he jumps on is sorta flaccid.
Looking at TK's posts at the sametime, TK still hasn't made a useful post.
Cyan's "KJ is trying to hide his vote in the middle of his post" makes no sense to me and reeks of reaching. Therefore Cyan is still probably town.
@Cyan: Did you actually read Niv's post? The one that TK voted him over? It feels so badly like you are out of the loop on that one.
@TK: Same question as I asked Cyan, actually.
Conclusion: My gut tells me KJ is scum but there's some conflict there. On the other hand, I'm even more certain TK is scum.
Cyan gets a lean town for me. I like that he saw what I saw in Shockwave, but I'm always wary of when someone explains my actions, whether right or wrong. I appreciate his defense, but it has the slight taste of tuna. Don't get me wrong, I love tuna sandwiches, just not in my Mafia.
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What an odd question...
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Or did you mean:
I saw Shockwave's response to Rhand's pressure as over-whelmed town.
Cyan saw Shockwave's response to Rhand's pressure as overwhelmed town.
I like when people see the same response as I see it.
Cyan tried to explain my reasoning for voting Niv.
I appreciate the effort, but it smells of buddying. Might not be, but then I'm paranoid and assume the worst.
So while I get town vibes, it's dampened a bit.
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Now you insult me. Going after low hanging fruit?
You did notice that I'm not 100% sure on my scumread on you. Then why do you find it strange that I don't want to tunnel on you and want to keep engaging others instead?
How is that different from my other town games? I always come out of the bat aggressively, and I settle my vote when I found someone I'm pretty sure of, using it to apply pressure before I do.
I don't know what 'masterplan' you have. We both know you're very well capable of getting someone mislynched Day 1 and wurm out of the suspicion over that on Day 2.
I don't know why you seem to think I'm so important. You've mentioned the league points a few times. Maybe you want me out early because I ended high in the competition last year?
Or maybe you are town and just really convinced that I'm scum, but I can't wrap my head around that.
My lack of conviction comes from not being 100% convinced of Generic's alignment.
I'm having a hard time with this situation and would like to take a step back to think about it and look at Generic's play when he's not focussing on me, but he doesn't allow me to do that.
You say his points are clicking with you. Does that mean you agree with his gut scum read because of my multiple early votes and it being a bad thing that I ignored the post where he mentioned that gut read (without reasoning)? Because that was enough for him to single me out and damn me to hell.
Wow... you call that a reason to vote someone after having meta'd him as town?
Just FYI: I did tell you which specific post I was referring to in my reply to you. Reading is tech I guess.
Scum often does it so they show up in votecounts without having to take responsibility for the vote and because it gives them something non-game-related to talk about.
See below though: in this case it probably is null.
I feel like ignoring you for the rest of the game now. Stuff like 'while you are hiding' is just obnoxious and uncalled for. I would vote you at this point, but SNL is a sure thing and you sadly aren't.
Do you have some games where you did late RVS voting as town that I can check?
Treating this as null if this checks out.
The rest of your post is just
You're inventing garbage arguments against me and I'm tired of that.
What happened to handwaving being the reason someone is scum?
Fine. Have it that way.
Die.
vote Generic
No I have not. Don't put words in my mouth.
I meant the one where you said "I did. Is it impossible for scum to make accurate arguments?" I didn't get what you mean there. And I have no idea what you're going on about now so I assume my question hasn't been answered.
But there is one other thing in that post I'm curious about; you say that Cyan buddied you; what do you think Cyan's motivation for buddying you at that point in time is?
Me and my ten foot pole are making out with each other on the other side of town from the shouting match between you and Rhand.
You know what?
You just stop talking to me.
Let's do this:
Everyone chime in please.
So what about all the other posts we (mostle me) made about other stuff?
I was going to say Star Wars. But I went and actually checked it, turns out I made an RVS comment, but no actual vote Same with Maximum Carnage on the Wizards forums. All my other games were made early in RVS or I was Neutral. Though I will point out that I COULD win with the town and was supposed to function as the town's vig in Futurama
AH! Yes then, I haven't answered your question, I thought you were asking about the more recent Killjoy question.
My answer to Killjoy was that "Yes I had read Niv's post, but just because his post had accurate attacks didn't make it more or less likely suspicious".
And what I said is that it felt like he was buddying me. Why would he be buddying me? Because he's evil mafia and want's town allies for the future. Though when you phrase it your way with the emphasis on the second you (what do you think Cyan's motivation for buddying YOU at that point in time is?), I now find my paranoia silly. No one buddies with me. I'm too self-destructive. You have made good arguments for putting Cyan into a stronger town position.
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Neither of you.
I'd rather vote Killjoy.
Just noticed I missed this.
I've been TL;DRing most of the posts you two have made because of the shouting match. So...what about them?
so, you're telling me that if I didn't have a meta history of self votes, you'd still be voting me, ignoring the entirety of the rest of my post. I didn't even leave the vote on myself. so, yah, I really don't get you, vote stands. I just go to your second post since my last one. you reiterate that you'd still support that vote outside if a meta didn't exist. yah, still happy.
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@Rhand: you say that shockwave has now linked himself to Cyan. how much of a tell is that to the other when one flips? give me a %.
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@Cyan: I still don't see how you think what TK did was acceptable though. even if it's not a good misrep, it's still a misrep. he completely ignored the rest of my post, the vote in my post, and a myriad of other things, and after being called out by multiple people, he's not trying to buddy with me. he even says in his response to me that "Quite a few points were exactly what I was thinking." but he couldn't get around that STOCK TELL, that didn't mean anything, at all. In what world does someone place that vote, while still agreeing with "Quite a few points"? unless TK is awful. is TK awful?
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@Wheat: I wanted his logic behind his post, or to see if he acknowledged that it was a bad question. but care to fill me in though, since you seem to think it was acceptable, in what world does anyone, want to ask the town "well what if I'm scum?".the only correct answer is "well, we'll lynch you and there will be dead scum".
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@Generic: your 138, am I reading this right, you're excited that more people would vote you in a vacuum than Rhand. WTF? are you okay? do you want to die?
um, how do you get to that translation at all? I had this exact same issue with Cyan's post, but I wrote it off to Cyan being Cyan. but you, would rather misrep an attempt to get into Cyan's head as someone getting Cyan to do work for you......... that's so far off, it can't be anything but misrep.
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An aside Re Rhand Vs Generic: I'm not longer willing to wade through the mess of this crap. I'll skim your posts, but it's melting my brain. Generic's "1 v 1" ***** is a giant waste of time, no one would ever do that.
so, I'm going to ask the both of you: we have a scenario, where the other one of you is suddenly day killed. Who are you now voting, and why. **** this "1 v 1" bull*****.
------------
@Seppel: Plan on giving any content?
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
I'm not drunk enough and there's not enough content for proper drunk mafia.
gdi
Info lynches work two ways and the second way gives more than one scum flip. Shockwave was trying to convert himself from a mislynch to an info lynch, which is a townie mindset. Info lynches only work when the town knows what it's going to do with the info.
Goddammit I am too coherent for drunk mafia. This sucks.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
Spider-Man Mafia 3 (Off-Site: NGA)
Metroid Mafia (Off-Site: Mafia Universe)
That's the thing though, I wasn't necessarily trying to start an argument. I posted a thought. I didn't do it so that we can do a huge back and forth on it... just putting my thoughts out there.
And I'm sorry if you feel miffed because we don't know you as well as we should, but keep in mind... most people's online personas aren't the same as their real personalities. I'm a LOT less talkative in real life, for example.
But yeah, probably expect more later.
That's actually the third time that question's been asked. First was Hunger in 63, then me in that post, now Wheat.
Given that Wheat has asked that question now, what does that tell you about him?
I was wondering if you saw any alignment-telling things in the not-fight-related posts, but if you haven't read them...
Shock hasn't linked himself to Cyan exactly. White knighting a townie is a thing. That goes both ways in this case: Cyan has done some defending of Shock as well.
I wouldn't take that kind of conclusion if one of them flips scum.
I would vote SNL, which is where my vote was before I got tired of Generic's crap. That should be obvious if you read my posts
Hm, I interpreted it as fearmongering to try and get pressure off him. I guess you can look at it this way as well.
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that ain't falco
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It doesn't look like Seppel has done anything this game.
I still don't like Killjoy or Shockwave.
catchupstart playing this game. Only four days and we have a ton of posting. Firstunvote Shockwave
Not that I don't think he's scummy, his early posting was bad and his wagon justified (I like every vote on it up until Hans'). Since the pressure came off he sunk back into the background.
Second - too much of this game is being dominated too much by Rhand/Generic. It needs to stop. I had to basically skip over all your posting just to try and get through this game and I still couldn't get caught up. Don't know where that Rhand wagon came from. His early posting reads town to me. Didn't have a good read on Generic's early play but I found it noticeable how he increased his aggression right after Karn called him out for it though.
Since I promised content I will say I have early scumreads on Cyan, Hans and TK-421. Reasons tomorrow.
Full catchup will hopefully come tomorrow(ish) - assuming I don't get another few pages of Rhand vrs Generic before then.
TK: I don't think anyone is so bad that they would place the vote you placed, and believe it was the right choice. you inital post still felt like garbage, you said: "Far more problematic is Niv's wonderful vote for himself. Niv, why do you feel the need to avoid pushing buttons?" when you voted for me. you still haven't actually answered what I've wanted you to answer. How the in the bloody world was I not pushing buttons in that post, and why did you ignore the fact that I vote someone at the end of the post? We're gonna pretend I don't have a meta of voting myself, and the scumtell is a valid tell for everyone (dispute the fact that it's not for anyone). in what world is your initial vote still justified. you've spewed garbage like: "well, scum make accurate arguments too" and similar, but you've avoided answering what I actually want to know.
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That aside however, Sir Karn's initial Misrepresentation of Generic where he called him out for being cautious, when he already had a vote on one of the people he was announcing a gut read on is still bothering me, like a lot. you were called out on this, and now you pop back into the thread 3 days later and completely ignore any previous discussion that was going on regarding you, and post a worthless active lurker post. UnVote, Vote Sir Karn
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
Apparently you haven't seen an actual aggressive Generic.
Saying "I have two gut reads, and I'm going to vote one." Is extremely cautious and unaggressive by his standards.
I find it hilarious that Generic immediately started his forced "1v1 me bro" garbage right after I pointed that out too. Yet people like Niv still want to twist the story to say I'm misrepresenting.
Unvote, Vote: Antny223
What I wouldn't do for a vig shot.