I think now is a good time to explain why I didn't like the Antny wagon. I felt like it came on too fast for a bad reason: One statement he made that I thought needed more explaining. Like the way it sounded made me think he was trying to say something but couldn't put it into words well? Is this making sense?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
@Cyan - I'm not sure if I'm right, but based on what Cantrip has said, I think the ball is basically a cop shot that Cantrip has to die to bear fruit. Right now Wheat is holding the ball so if you have a strong town read on him, shooting Cantrip toDay at least may not be the best move. If I'm right, we can have Wheat pass the ball to someone in PoE and shoot Cantrip tomorrow.
Really don't like that Killjoy post. So reactionary and it pretty much says nothing.
Also Cyan, I think you DO need to look at Niv interactions. It's the thing that has Karn in my town pile.
Also, if you want to lynch Killjoy, I assume that means you believe he faked his town slip? I haven't played with him before, so I don't know if this is something he could/would pull off.
That summary makes alot of sense, and if so, you're right that I need to not shoot anyone until tomorrow. I'll take a look back at Karn/Niv.
And yeah, not impressed with KJ's response there. Telling us on Day 3 why he avoided the Antny wagon on Day 1 looks very much like a guilty conscience. Unvote, Vote Killjoy
Killjoy's comment reminds me of something that happened probably two years ago on this site. I got to thinking about that game recently and Killjoy's comment sparked a particular memory from it:
Basic 52, Supernatural Mafia.
Somewhere between signups and the start of the game, a player called fluffyn00b changes his sig to state that he is scum. No one notices until the game starts, and Iso takes it as a scumtell. Iso manages to rally the entire town behind him, with two exceptions: myself, and one other player who I can't recall. We defended fluffyn00b.
By coincidence, fluffyn00b was indeed scum. It turned out later that the tell was total BS, but oh well dead scum.
I happened to be the vig. I shot the other guy who backed fluffyn00b Night 1. He was also scum. I survived of course because I was the vig and there weren't any scum left to cc me.
The reason I tell this story is because Supernatural is now this game, I'm still me, fluffyn00b is now antny, and the other guy is now Killjoy.
I had the same doubts as Killjoy did and expressed them right before the end.
I can't remember whether I'm voting Killjoy or Generic (probably the latter) but I think Killjoy is the better lynch.
Unvote, Vote: Killjoy
That said a Generic daykill would be nice. I'm also down for a Cantrip vig, but only because he wants it.
@Cyan, I know my play has sucked a bit since replacing in. My PC died at home so I am limited to phone posting, which is ok for posting as the game goes on but sucks for rereading. Of all the people posting toDay, the only person giving me scummy vibes is Hawk, mainly for his attack on me early and then the "hammer" gambit. Not sure if I buy that.
I mean, why wouldn't you come clean with that the Day after I didn't work out? Speaking of which, did anyone call him on that?
Also, I didn't like the above post by Wheat. That's an awful lot of justification, for something that he himself admits "isnt a tell". If it's not a tell, then why bring it up?
Also, if you want to lynch Killjoy, I assume that means you believe he faked his town slip? I haven't played with him before, so I don't know if this is something he could/would pull off.
I did. "Hey guys there was this one game in which I defended scum, and I was only one of two people, but I was town and the other guy defending the scum was scum too! Therefore since there were only two people defending scum!Antny in this game, and I know I am town, then Killjoy must be obvscum!"
The amount of conf bias there is pretty high. I don't like that justification for a wagon hop.
That error by KJ doesn't mean anything to me. It could easily be faked, or he could have forgotten who his scum team even killed(admittedly less possible, but still..possible).
Ultimately, someone(two someones probably) has to be scum here. And I'd rather deal with that behaviorally while acknowledging a slip-up like this than have to consider people that I think are town might actually be scum.
Who do you think we should be going after, Hunger? And why?
Also, if you want to lynch Killjoy, I assume that means you believe he faked his town slip? I haven't played with him before, so I don't know if this is something he could/would pull off.
I voted for killjoy before that post from huger was made. So the use of my name to reference those who subsequently voted for him after that post is a misrep.
This is a really weird line to take, I can't figure out why you would get stuck on this kind of point.
I voted for killjoy before that post from huger was made. So the use of my name to reference those who subsequently voted for him after that post is a misrep.
I don't. Seriously. I just browsed up and down to see who voted after the question and apparently got you and Cyan mixed up.
If we're not massclaiming, I at least want the person who gave Cyan the shotgun to claim.
I assume it was Seppel, given that he was a town 'Supplier' and had an item that he could not use himself but had to give to someone else. Plus he knew on Day 1 that I was town.
if it was someone else, I guess they can speak up, though I'm curious why it's an issue for you.
I'm on my out the door for a family reunion so just a couple quick things until probably tomorrow.
@Cyan - I still think Shock looked bad and LnG is pretty much neutral since he still hasn't really done anything. So that's my top lynch choice still I think. TK and Killjoy both have something that makes me think they are town, though both of their play has been pretty lacking. hawk I feel is town, but it's mostly just gut, so I could see vig/lynching him. I haven't been too impressed with Karn's posting either, but I have a hard time believe that Niv, while under no pressure himself, decided to try and start a counter wagon to Antny on his other scumbuddy. Sure, it could be he thought Antny was probably going to go down and he wanted to distance, but it doesn't read that way.
I don't really like the way this Killjoy wagon formed though. And his flip provides like no interaction analysis so I don't think I am going to be joining that wagon unless it's deadline and we need a lynch to go through.
I'll try and do some rereading and maybe do a full breakdown tomorrow.
Well yes. If he actually did pass the shotgun, then that means he only had two items to give. That's a bit weak for a supplier.
So I think the shotgun came from somewhere else. I want to know from where.
Maybe you're right, Rhand. I didn't really think about that. I don't know why you're so concerned with being told where the item came from, though. I already have enough protection choices each night just based on people that are overwhelmingly town behaviorally. The more role information that the scum have, the more difficult my life is. I realize that we'll be mass claiming in the next day or so anyway, but I would like to minimize information dumping in the meantime.
Pre-post Edit:
Looks like KJ should be claiming. I may change my mind re: my above statement depending on KJ's claim, of course.
Why are you now claiming that you may not be able to Vig toDay? And how in the world is this a blurry subject? Can't you just ask the mod "does my dayvig shot work toDay?" It's not a bastard game - the mod won't lie to you.
Are you talking to me? I can 100% dayvig today, and have never given any impression otherwise.
I said that, if Hunger(I think it was him) is correct that CM's role is 'give someone this ball, when you die their alignment is revealed', it is better to NOT dayvig today. Because we're already pretty positive that WG is town, and he has the ball now, so..dayvigging CM and finding out what we already knew about WG is really not ideal.
And at the same time, if this IS what CM is claiming(seriously CM, get in here and confirm/deny something already), he does have to be killed eventually. Because otherwise he just has a free pass to endgame with an unknown alignment(f he is scum, clearly he's not getting NKed..and if he's not scum, the scum aren't going to be in any hurry to NK him when doing so puts a free extra investigation into the game).
Hey look I'm at L-2. Ok I'll claim, since I probably deserve it since I've been so absent of late, for which I apologize. Work has been hectic, but I won't sit here and make excuses.
My name is Brett Buckley, Town Bleeder. I'm a kind of delayed bulletproof. When shot, I'm alive until the start of the next Day, then I'll end up dead.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Wow. Who knew small satellites were so busy as to completely sell out every hotel in my town?
Anyway. Bulletproof. Worst claim ever, but it makes sense since we had a "big" killing role with the SK, and a "little" killing role with 1-shot vig, a "big" investigative item-cop and a "little" investigative with a death-cop. That would make Cyan the "big" doctor role with KJ being the "little" doctor role.
Unvote
@Generic: Do you disbelieve KJ's role?
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She wants a ride on the pony, dude.
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
True, they are assumptions, but I am normally loathe to lynch power.
I will note that I didn't forget Seppel's killing ability. Since his role name was supplier, I actually placed him in the category "JoATs/Inventors/Fishers/Etc." (better known as "Utility"). I'm assuming he could do more, but just hadn't been able to.
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She wants a ride on the pony, dude.
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
I will pout this out though, if killjoy ends up being scum TK is the other one. He readily accepted that claim and started attacking me for not just accepting the claim and unvoting.
Exactly my thoughts.
I say we use the dayvig shot to test KillJoy. Nets us a dead scum or a confirmed townie.
Seppel probably could hand those out. Also, in this level of game, why can't there be two bps? Also also, I'm not full bulletproof. If you shoot me, I WILL die. Just not right away.
Wheat needs to explain where he saw that a lot more? Did a person have it? They don't need to claim, but where did you see this?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Well, looks like we have a lynch now. So am I dayvigging someone today, or are we waiting for WG to pass CM's ball to someone else? Assuming that we ever hear from CM confirming/denying that we correctly assessed his role. I think it's been long enough since he posted to earn a prod?
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And I had voted Fulcrum or at least showed intent to before she got 'counterclaimed'.
Really don't like that Killjoy post. So reactionary and it pretty much says nothing.
Also Cyan, I think you DO need to look at Niv interactions. It's the thing that has Karn in my town pile.
For reference, after Seppel was NK'd:
And yeah, not impressed with KJ's response there. Telling us on Day 3 why he avoided the Antny wagon on Day 1 looks very much like a guilty conscience. Unvote, Vote Killjoy
Basic 52, Supernatural Mafia.
Somewhere between signups and the start of the game, a player called fluffyn00b changes his sig to state that he is scum. No one notices until the game starts, and Iso takes it as a scumtell. Iso manages to rally the entire town behind him, with two exceptions: myself, and one other player who I can't recall. We defended fluffyn00b.
By coincidence, fluffyn00b was indeed scum. It turned out later that the tell was total BS, but oh well dead scum.
I happened to be the vig. I shot the other guy who backed fluffyn00b Night 1. He was also scum. I survived of course because I was the vig and there weren't any scum left to cc me.
The reason I tell this story is because Supernatural is now this game, I'm still me, fluffyn00b is now antny, and the other guy is now Killjoy.
I had the same doubts as Killjoy did and expressed them right before the end.
I can't remember whether I'm voting Killjoy or Generic (probably the latter) but I think Killjoy is the better lynch.
Unvote, Vote: Killjoy
That said a Generic daykill would be nice. I'm also down for a Cantrip vig, but only because he wants it.
I mean, why wouldn't you come clean with that the Day after I didn't work out? Speaking of which, did anyone call him on that?
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
This one
I did. "Hey guys there was this one game in which I defended scum, and I was only one of two people, but I was town and the other guy defending the scum was scum too! Therefore since there were only two people defending scum!Antny in this game, and I know I am town, then Killjoy must be obvscum!"
The amount of conf bias there is pretty high. I don't like that justification for a wagon hop.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Ultimately, someone(two someones probably) has to be scum here. And I'd rather deal with that behaviorally while acknowledging a slip-up like this than have to consider people that I think are town might actually be scum.
Who do you think we should be going after, Hunger? And why?
Outdated Mafia Stats
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
We need to decide on who to dayvig first though.
Also, if killjoy flips scum, LnGrrrR is definite scum due to that post on the last page attacking Wheat (for attacking killjoy).
Outdated Mafia Stats
Outdated Mafia Stats
I don't really think it's a townslip, no.
So..in this quote...
Who is 'the next person'?
This is a really weird line to take, I can't figure out why you would get stuck on this kind of point.
Eh... Sorry?
But why would I want to misrep you?
If we're not massclaiming, I at least want the person who gave Cyan the shotgun to claim.
Outdated Mafia Stats
I assume it was Seppel, given that he was a town 'Supplier' and had an item that he could not use himself but had to give to someone else. Plus he knew on Day 1 that I was town.
if it was someone else, I guess they can speak up, though I'm curious why it's an issue for you.
It seemed to me that he spent his N1 action to craft the bomb.
But I might be wrong.
@Cyan - I still think Shock looked bad and LnG is pretty much neutral since he still hasn't really done anything. So that's my top lynch choice still I think. TK and Killjoy both have something that makes me think they are town, though both of their play has been pretty lacking. hawk I feel is town, but it's mostly just gut, so I could see vig/lynching him. I haven't been too impressed with Karn's posting either, but I have a hard time believe that Niv, while under no pressure himself, decided to try and start a counter wagon to Antny on his other scumbuddy. Sure, it could be he thought Antny was probably going to go down and he wanted to distance, but it doesn't read that way.
I don't really like the way this Killjoy wagon formed though. And his flip provides like no interaction analysis so I don't think I am going to be joining that wagon unless it's deadline and we need a lynch to go through.
I'll try and do some rereading and maybe do a full breakdown tomorrow.
So I think the shotgun came from somewhere else. I want to know from where.
Vote Count 3.2
LnGrrrR (1): Hunger
7hawk77 (1): Sir Karn
Killjoy (4): TK-421, Generic, Wheat_Grinder, 7hawk77
Not voting (5): Killjoy, Rhand, Cantripmancer, LnGrrrR, Cyan
With 11 alive, it takes 6 to burn.
Pre-post Edit:
Looks like KJ should be claiming. I may change my mind re: my above statement depending on KJ's claim, of course.
I said that, if Hunger(I think it was him) is correct that CM's role is 'give someone this ball, when you die their alignment is revealed', it is better to NOT dayvig today. Because we're already pretty positive that WG is town, and he has the ball now, so..dayvigging CM and finding out what we already knew about WG is really not ideal.
And at the same time, if this IS what CM is claiming(seriously CM, get in here and confirm/deny something already), he does have to be killed eventually. Because otherwise he just has a free pass to endgame with an unknown alignment(f he is scum, clearly he's not getting NKed..and if he's not scum, the scum aren't going to be in any hurry to NK him when doing so puts a free extra investigation into the game).
My name is Brett Buckley, Town Bleeder. I'm a kind of delayed bulletproof. When shot, I'm alive until the start of the next Day, then I'll end up dead.
Anyway. Bulletproof. Worst claim ever, but it makes sense since we had a "big" killing role with the SK, and a "little" killing role with 1-shot vig, a "big" investigative item-cop and a "little" investigative with a death-cop. That would make Cyan the "big" doctor role with KJ being the "little" doctor role.
Unvote
@Generic: Do you disbelieve KJ's role?
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
And you forgot Seppel's killing ability.
I will note that I didn't forget Seppel's killing ability. Since his role name was supplier, I actually placed him in the category "JoATs/Inventors/Fishers/Etc." (better known as "Utility"). I'm assuming he could do more, but just hadn't been able to.
Mafia Stats
Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
Exactly my thoughts.
I say we use the dayvig shot to test KillJoy. Nets us a dead scum or a confirmed townie.
I'll do a reread and come back to this.
That makes KJ sure scum. Let's lynch it and shoot someone else.
Wheat needs to explain where he saw that a lot more? Did a person have it? They don't need to claim, but where did you see this?
I saw it on a dude Night 1 due to my ability.