Hawk: Why would vigging him be better than lynching him? Also, you realize Cantrip's encouraging us to lynch him, right?
Rhand: What upsides are there? The only I see is increasing the odds of a correct protect when their are fewer players and possibly outed power roles later, but that balances against the risk of him dying or having his role outed. It's not a like a vig who might have a motivation to wait a Day to get more information.
X-shot vig's have bad habits of hitting the power roles, whereas a bad protect from a doc has no downside other than wasting the shot. A doc when outed is generally killed and has no chance of using their abilities to protect someone, whereas a vig can usually still kill someone that Night (except when there's a roleblocker) and (if the Doc isn't dead) can ask for protection.
I still tend to shoot Night 1 as a vig anyway. I would only not consider it as a one-shot, and even then.
Hm, if the doc is outed, that probably means he played bad and got to lynch range.
In which case scum is forced to deal with someone who almost got lynched or risk protection.
Which isn't too bad for town.
I agree that in most cases it's better to use PR's every possible night, but calling it anti-town to decide otherwise isn't correct.
Especially in large games: the chance of guessing correctly with everyone alive is very minimal.
So yeah you shot void who was our cop in hayate. The good news is you actually do believe this mentality which shows you are supporting your town mindset, even if I don't agree.
I still don't know if lynching cyan is correct without a CC.
I 100% disagree but that doesn't matter now. What does is your rationale for how you think how cyan should use his power reflecting your town meta. I think he should have saved it and so does rhand. Without a cc I, we aren't lynhing cyan.
The main thing is: Cyan would have not claimed no action N1 unless he really took no action.
With a mafia goon dead in Antny, I have a hard time believing that scum has someone left that can sit and do nothing at night. Ergo: Cyan is what he claimed.
And Fulcrum looks worse than she already did because of that.
I want to hear what Wheat wants to say. He clearly frets on something.
The main thing is: Cyan would have not claimed no action N1 unless he really took no action.
With a mafia goon dead in Antny, I have a hard time believing that scum has someone left that can sit and do nothing at night. Ergo: Cyan is what he claimed.
And Fulcrum looks worse than she already did because of that.
I want to hear what Wheat wants to say. He clearly frets on something.
That's actually a good point. Odds of multiple goons? Muh. Why exactly do I look worse?
Karn: You know what else happened in Hayate? The doc refused to couterclaim an obvious scum Day 1 and then got shot that Night anyway.
Whatever. If Cyan's lying and the doc doesn't counter claim, I'm going really pissed off.
Also, @ karn and hunger. Has your view changed about Shockwave or would you still want to lynch him.
As Karn said, he hasn't done anything, so nothing has really changed in his play, but there are a couple things that have cooled my read on him.
I did reread him after Cyan said he wouldn't point out why he was obvtown, and I do see a couple things that have me thinking he could be town, but nothing I would call obvtown.
And the main thing that has me second-guessing my read is when I asked everyone to defend him, no one really did other than Cyan, which leads me to thinking people are mostly alright with his lynch, which is never good. I need to go look at who was calling him obvtown without reasons and still didn't respond to my 3 or 4 pleas for explanation.
I'm fighting enough people without having to fight you too. Though the fact that you didn't actually read my points and just pretended to is pissing me off.
Did you think I wouldn't notice? Or did you expect not to call you on it out of some fear of being seen as self-conscious or something? Come on Generic. Don't treat me like I'm an idiot.
I'm Krieger, and I'm the Doc. My rolename is technically Quack, and I have a # of potions that I can use that prevent someone from being NKed.
Reading is tech
That's not a guarantee.
Regardless, I'm okay with leaving Cyan alive toDay.
I need to figure out who I want lynched instead though now. I don't like the fulcrum wagon, and I don't like the Rhand wagon. Killjoy maybe? Cantrip? Someone make me a case, otherwise I'll try looking later.
You didn't read my case. You argued that Rhand may be scum that's good at looking town, but my points were all about how Niv and Antny's reactions to Rhand make him look town. They had nothing to do with Rhand's actual conduct.
And of course, you accused me of not being aggressive enough while doing something that you know make me really ******* aggressive. I see three possible reasons: 1. You derped, 2. You don't actually care about Rhand's alignment, and you're pushing a mislynch, so you never bothered to process my posts and 3. You deliberately set a trap to make me look bad.
3. You deliberately set a trap to make me look bad.
Query: Why does the trap have to make you look bad? Why could the trap simply exist to see who's not paying attention and falls in? In such a case, would that be bad?
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She wants a ride on the pony, dude.
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3. You deliberately set a trap to make me look bad.
Query: Why does the trap have to make you look bad? Why could the trap simply exist to see who's not paying attention and falls in? In such a case, would that be bad?
Let's say irl you say that someone does is not emotionally invested in something. You then immediately do something that you know makes them angry. They respond angrily. You then reply that they are just trying seem emotionally invested in that thing, thus dismissing their point of view. Replace that someone with me and that something with my emotional attachment to the game, and that's what Generic just did. Because he said I'm not being confrontational or whatever before hand (which frankly isn't even true), now he thinks he can get away with doing things that make me angry and that I either won't call him on them or will look bad for doing so. **** that.
But really, that's just a paranoia view. The must more likely answer is that Generic really didn't read my post, because he doesn't actually care about Rhand's alignment.
Karn: I'm asking why you think I'm scum. Stop handwaving.
7hawk77: Because I've never actually seen self defeating scum that wasn't already outed.
I'd be alright with a generic lynch. When I accused him of conf biasing rhand, which he has used as a counter argument in the past, he just smoke screened, refused to answer, omgus voted me and then proceed to ignore me.
For someone who claims I upset them by not reading their posts you seem to keep on not reading mine.
More misreps, keep em coming.
I read your post, and considered your arguments beneath addressing.
You think the minute separation between your post makes a difference? You think claiming now that you didn't read the posts when you previously claimed otherwise is going to get me to back off? Pull the other one.
I'm sure you have a logical thought process. But as much as town can look scummy at times I also feel scum can do town things.
And Rhand points out himself that he's never been lynched as scum, so he must be able to display 'town' traits. I just think he's scum and I won't let it drop til one of us is dead.
The above post implies that you read my reasoning and disagreed because Rhand is good at looking town. Do you deny that?
That's not what Shock was doing. He was trying to get suspicion off Cyan, not himself.
wait, what pressure on Cyan? what is this? I don't even? this is so wrong, the only motive behind this post is either misrepresentation, or misrepresentation with intent to slander.
then your responce. you "serious vote" Cyan. for what? not having fun? wtf. did you actually intend that to put suspicion on him? how is that a tell? how is that anything? you're seriously telling me that was a serious vote on Cyan all for his post containing the exact phrase "...Have we met?"
so, yah, care to explain your actual thought process behind this vote, the initial one on Cyan? how does "...Have we met?" translate to "Hi, I'm Cyan, and I'm scum"? seriously, what is everyone else missing?
that, and how the heck was shock's post still trying to deflect off of Cyan? You know what, I do see what you're saying here, about the "having fun" comment, but you know, what. your vote was still awful, and had I picked up on it while reading page one, instead of page two, I'd probably have questioned you on it a lot earlier in this post. really I didn't even think, even with the serious disclaimer, that it was serious. like, at all.
snip
I've asked alot of questions in this post however if Rhand does feel that his first vote on Cyan is serious. I'll gladly call it garbage, unfounded, and UnVote, Vote Rhand.
While Rhand's initial vote on cyan was flimsier than 1 ply industrial toilet paper, I see where the "defense of cyan from shockwave" was. it was also flimsier than 1 ply industrial toilet paper, but it did happen. and you asked Rhand that question, and he responded in the post immediately prior to you.
Rhand's still gonna keep my vote, but your extreme lack of reading the thread is pretty awful too. like, really awful.
The attacks on Rhand continue for the rest of the Day.[/quote]
You'll note that it has nothing to do with Rhand's posts.
And Generic, why exactly are you so sure of your reads that you haven't read my posts?
I think that we should just look at Sir Karn. He was all too quick to OMGUS-jump on Fulcrum's side in our fight, in the most bandwagony way possible. Time for that review of Karn's posts to actually happen.
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Rhand: What upsides are there? The only I see is increasing the odds of a correct protect when their are fewer players and possibly outed power roles later, but that balances against the risk of him dying or having his role outed. It's not a like a vig who might have a motivation to wait a Day to get more information.
Why do you think it's ok for an X-shot vig to wait and not for an X-shot doc?
I still tend to shoot Night 1 as a vig anyway. I would only not consider it as a one-shot, and even then.
In which case scum is forced to deal with someone who almost got lynched or risk protection.
Which isn't too bad for town.
I agree that in most cases it's better to use PR's every possible night, but calling it anti-town to decide otherwise isn't correct.
Especially in large games: the chance of guessing correctly with everyone alive is very minimal.
He's not answering.
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I still don't know if lynching cyan is correct without a CC.
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With a mafia goon dead in Antny, I have a hard time believing that scum has someone left that can sit and do nothing at night. Ergo: Cyan is what he claimed.
And Fulcrum looks worse than she already did because of that.
I want to hear what Wheat wants to say. He clearly frets on something.
I can believe Cyan is Doc.
Unvote.
I feel like Rhand has gotten a lot townier over this exchange.
Vote: Fulcrum
Shock hasn't done anything. Would still lynch him.
That's actually a good point. Odds of multiple goons? Muh. Why exactly do I look worse?
Karn: You know what else happened in Hayate? The doc refused to couterclaim an obvious scum Day 1 and then got shot that Night anyway.
Whatever. If Cyan's lying and the doc doesn't counter claim, I'm going really pissed off.
Unvote
Vote Voxxicus
Hello again.
I did reread him after Cyan said he wouldn't point out why he was obvtown, and I do see a couple things that have me thinking he could be town, but nothing I would call obvtown.
And the main thing that has me second-guessing my read is when I asked everyone to defend him, no one really did other than Cyan, which leads me to thinking people are mostly alright with his lynch, which is never good. I need to go look at who was calling him obvtown without reasons and still didn't respond to my 3 or 4 pleas for explanation.
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What did you think of my points in Rhand's favor?
That's not a guarantee.
Regardless, I'm okay with leaving Cyan alive toDay.
I need to figure out who I want lynched instead though now. I don't like the fulcrum wagon, and I don't like the Rhand wagon. Killjoy maybe? Cantrip? Someone make me a case, otherwise I'll try looking later.
Don't remember when I last posted, been working and watching world cup things.
I think you're both scum, so I'm down.
And of course, you accused me of not being aggressive enough while doing something that you know make me really ******* aggressive. I see three possible reasons: 1. You derped, 2. You don't actually care about Rhand's alignment, and you're pushing a mislynch, so you never bothered to process my posts and 3. You deliberately set a trap to make me look bad.
You can die now.
Vote: Generic
If anyone was wondering what a scum on scum fight looks like, look no further than the above "1v1".
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Cantripmancer (2): Voxxicus, 7hawk77
Sir Karn (1): Cyan
fulcrum (4): Shockwave07, Rhand, Sir Karn, Generic
Shockwave07 (1): Hunger
Cyan (1): Killjoy
Generic (1): fulcrum
Not voting (3): Cantripmancer, TK-421, Wheat_Grinder
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to burn. The deadline is 1600 EDT 5 July 2014, approximately 3.5 days from now.
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Let's say irl you say that someone does is not emotionally invested in something. You then immediately do something that you know makes them angry. They respond angrily. You then reply that they are just trying seem emotionally invested in that thing, thus dismissing their point of view. Replace that someone with me and that something with my emotional attachment to the game, and that's what Generic just did. Because he said I'm not being confrontational or whatever before hand (which frankly isn't even true), now he thinks he can get away with doing things that make me angry and that I either won't call him on them or will look bad for doing so. **** that.
But really, that's just a paranoia view. The must more likely answer is that Generic really didn't read my post, because he doesn't actually care about Rhand's alignment.
Karn: I'm asking why you think I'm scum. Stop handwaving.
7hawk77: Because I've never actually seen self defeating scum that wasn't already outed.
He already claimed VT so it's a safe pick.
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I read your post, and considered your arguments beneath addressing.
You think the minute separation between your post makes a difference? You think claiming now that you didn't read the posts when you previously claimed otherwise is going to get me to back off? Pull the other one.
The above post implies that you read my reasoning and disagreed because Rhand is good at looking town. Do you deny that?
Here's the actual post I was referencing:
unvote.
vote: generic