My paranoia is also rising a bit about Hans, as he is generally more lurky as scum. He has also promised to provide content and catch-up that hasn't come.
One of the points that you emphasized heavily against KoolKoal is that he's been actively lurking. I don't think that this is inherently indicative of scum alignment.
Dking, can you point me to where you explain your HP suspicion? If it's based entirely on play style I would ask you to tell me how a player being a difficult ******** is sound scum strategy?
I know what he's like but to play that way just for me would be an astonishingly bad choice and I would question his ability to play this game. As it stands I'm confident that the a out of times he has been called on the attitude would have by now yielded a change in his play to avoid the limelight, but it hasn't.
I already pointed out one post from HP that I thought was completely useless and mentioned that if it wasn't for Deus Ex I'd be voting her. The vote on you guys was also useless. She is inching closer and closer to going on my list of players I actively want to lynch even in games where I think they're town.
Ok, now that I took that out of my system I can properly answer:
Yes it surely can. This ain't the case here, however: it feels way too much calculated.
Kosa, this is where you and I differ 180 degrees on Niv. I think his posts in this game have been anything but calculated. He reads to me as though he is shooting entirely from the hip.
I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
I'm conflicted on Gentrip. We have overlap on many of our reads and I think it's unlikely that they'd be the first vote on and so aggressive about pushing SNL if they were buddies (and I think SNL's lack of effort in defending himself is telling there). But Generic's #260 is giving me bad vibes. The way he's playing devil's advocate feels like he's directing traffic - like he knows what's going on and that post has a strategy to it. Not sure how to better get at what I mean there, but it's bothering me.
@LnGr - The question, for me, has been whether or not town fulcrum would unvote you there (because I can see motivation for scum fulcrum to unvote there regardless of your alignment) but I think it's probable that she did because it's consistent with her suspicions in earlier postings, because she changed her mind to thinking he was "bad town" right before her vote, and then changed her mind back again (think as scum she'd have tried to be more consistent in such a short time frame), and because my town read on her is strengthening for other reasons.
I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
1. SNL didn't selfhammer.
2. He's resigned to be lynched, which doesn't match up with my scum experience with him in Porcelain Waltz.
3. He's pushing one scumread instead of opportunistically jumping on people.
So, a few things.
@Kosa and fulcrum: both of you are railing on me, but both of you are unwilling completly to respond to me responding to your cases. fulcrum's the worst for it, openly admitting blatent hypocrisy, and isn't even shying away from it or defending against that accusation. I responded to Kosa's vote on me here and he's just calling people drunk for reading me town, while still not responding to anything I've said to him. I really don't know what I should be doing at this point with regards to you two, or are you just scum together? I'm honestly at a point where I can't see any reason you'd both still just be stuck on me without even being willing to respond to me.
Fulcrum's last vote on me, which I'd assume is still using the 100% flawed logic from the previous attacks on me, but it adds in the world's most spotty vote count analysis I've ever seen. you know what scum is on that wagon: You.
and Kosa's last post, in the same 2 consecutive paragraphs writes off his adhom smearing of the people reading me as town as rage against the curse software, but then follows it it with another bloody attack on my writing style. have you bothered skimming that game I linked fulcrum multiple times now? oh and that line at the end just declaring fulcrum town. you two are so tied together at this point you're practically siameese twins. but hey, you can write off your actual smearing attacks as acceptable because those people disagreed with you, oh, what, that's generally what smearing is, but I misinterpret one post regarding some termanology that didn't exsist when I stopped playing, and you just won't let off, and won't respond to my counter arguments? but hey, my posts are all "calculated" too. that's great. I have no ******* clue where you get that from now, but hey, that makes me scum? I can't bloody respond to that, like, what am I supposed to say?
---------
all that ***** aside, why isn't SNL dead yet? not self hammering isn't a town tell. neither scum, nor town want to die, ever. if scum thinks they can talk their way out of a case, they will. fulcrum's backing off of SNL so hard it's pretty painful at this point. SNL's done nothing to actually give us reason to back off of him yet, but hey, we;re stalling, people aren't posting. SNL is the day's lynch at this point, he's claimed Vanilla, and fulcrum wants us off of the wagon for more spotty reasoning. why is this lynch not going through? all we're getting from SNL is promises of content and stalling, and people that are enabling it. I really don't understand anything that's going on in this thread at this point. unless I just take the people not making sense, write them off as scum, and everything makes perfect sense. Imagine that, the system works.
Uh, no. Votecount analysis work by eliminating the townies and looking at what remains. Flips confirm reads, but strong town reads (like the ones I have on SNL, hans, DCIII, Generic and C6) work just as well.
umm, self meta statements, completely inconsistent reads, the T/S list that made no sense, inconsistent posting, this post. there's also been a vanilla claim, which doesn't help or hurt a case. that and the last post made is more spotty meta, that really doesn't do anything to deter me from this lynch.
but hey, you're scum too, so why am I even explaining any of this to get through, and it's not like you're going to even respond anything I post either.
and while just looking back over your posts, your last few ones have been so inconsistant, Fulcrum, you went from your crap case on me, to not feeling the wagon, to voting SNL, to not voting SNL, to voting me again, while all still not responding to anything I've said, but I then came across this gem:
And my town read on DCIII is reinforced. I should probably start thinking for myself now.
A bit of research on Niv (read: almost nothing) has me thinking he's just being bad and not scum, especially because he's right about KoolKoal's post.
HookerPunch: Do something interesting.
Which when I first responded to it, was pretty awful, given current context, is even worse. you've acknowledged that you did "a bit" of research on me, even if it is "almost nothing" is still "a bit", but now, you're refusing to respond to anything I say, but you admitted earlier that you did read over something, regardless of how much it actually was. but then when I tell you to skim one of my games, you refuse saying you won't meta me, but you've already did a minor meta on me, and really that's all you need.
so, yah, if you're unwilling to meta me, then why did you meta me, and then why did you come to this conclusion when you did meta me, but when I did tell you your case was filled with holes that can be resolved just by skimming one of my old game, you're now unwilling to meta me. wait, what, didn't you do that earlier? Yah, your scum, you're weakly defending SNL, who is scum, with you. 2 for 2.
I'm conflicted on Gentrip. We have overlap on many of our reads and I think it's unlikely that they'd be the first vote on and so aggressive about pushing SNL if they were buddies (and I think SNL's lack of effort in defending himself is telling there). But Generic's #260 is giving me bad vibes. The way he's playing devil's advocate feels like he's directing traffic - like he knows what's going on and that post has a strategy to it. Not sure how to better get at what I mean there, but it's bothering me.
@LnGr - The question, for me, has been whether or not town fulcrum would unvote you there (because I can see motivation for scum fulcrum to unvote there regardless of your alignment) but I think it's probable that she did because it's consistent with her suspicions in earlier postings, because she changed her mind to thinking he was "bad town" right before her vote, and then changed her mind back again (think as scum she'd have tried to be more consistent in such a short time frame), and because my town read on her is strengthening for other reasons.
Guys, I think that this SNL wagon is bad biscuits. It just doesn't feel right to me. I agree with fulcrum that it should be aborted. I wish that I had a stronger argument against it, but I do not.
@Hookerpunch- Could you please explain your vote on DC?
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I think Niv summed it up pretty well. Fulcrum's RVS post was a naked barn, which feels odd to me when everyone is supposed to be at least slightly jovial. A naked vote prevents any self conscious slips.
I agree with this. I was going to point out fulcrum's naked RVS before I got distracted by cccccc's terrible case of flipflop.
@fulcrum: Why expose yourself in post #50 if you wanted to illicit reactions with your naked vote? LnGrrrR was the only one to comment on it; what does his reaction tell you?
My current opinion on LnGr is in the thread a couple of times.
What I will say is I find it unfair that you would make assumptions on what I'm doing when you have been questioning and imposing your views on others this whole time, your tactic there feels like an attempt to keep controlling position of the game so you can steer lynches. I hope that's not the case cos your opening play has been very strong index and an asset if you are town.
The reason I have the suspicion that I do about your #260 is not because you're imposing your views or questioning players - you did that all throughout the last game we played together (where you were acting as town with your reads despite not being town). It's because the whole post is devil's advocate, defending two players from two others and your entire tone doesn't seem to suspect any of them.
In your response to me about why fulcrum was a lean town read, one of the reasons you mentioned was POE because you had some reason to suspect most other players - but in #260, your post has a tone of thinking that everyone mentioned in there are all town because of the way you're reasoning with two of them to try to get them to come around on their thinking on the other two. So that's Niv, DK, Kosa, HP who you don't seem to be suspicious of - you've said you had a town read on me, a town lean on fulcrum, I presume that you think 6Cs is town since you unvoted after his double vote and haven't focused on him since... and per our recent discussions you seem to think that LnGr is town - so that leaves SNL, KK, and possibly Hans - which doesn't seem much like you're suspicious of many people despite saying that you were, which seems off to me both because it seems like a contradiction and because I feel like you've been more volatile/suspicious with your reads when I've played with you as town (or acting as town) in the past.
DC should be able to see SNL's towniness for what it is. I do no like the fact that he's still voting for him.
Niv: There is nothing implicitly wrong with self meta statements. In fact, I've found that most scum are aware they do nothing to convince people and do not use them. SNL's reads have been consistent, with the minor exception of the thing about me, but his explanation for that fits our previous experience together. Likewise, if you read the last page or so of Porcelain Waltz where he explained his decision to shoot hans there, you'll understand his mindset behind his read on hans here. That post you linked showed a lack of self-consciousness that is undeniably towny. The vanilla claim works in his favor, as I believe scum!SNL would be smart enough to fakeclaim at this point to draw out another claim, especially when he believes he's going down (because that resignation was not faked). Do you understand why I have trouble believing you are actually this bad?
Oh, and when I say "almost nothing," I mean I read a single post from you in another thread describing your previous mafia experience. I'm not going to meta you, because a proper meta requires far too much effort. Deal with it.
Fulcrum - What? SNL said that your /barning reminded him of your town game in Waltz but when he initially saw it, he agreed with LnGr's suspicion of it. I want to know what changed. Why aren't you concerned about what changed?
cccccc808 was officially proded.
Kosakosa was pre-prodded.
DKL has informed me he is essentially v/LA over weekends, and thus will not be pre-prodded until Monday.
Your deadline is in FOUR DAYS, TWO HOURS, 36 MINUTES, on TUESDAY, JUNE 17TH, @ 23:30 EDT
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I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
But SNL - fulcrum had already made her /barns by the time you posted that so, if you thought those were a sign of her being town, why would you choose to agree with the suspicion part of LnGr's comment and ignore the part of her play that you thought made her "almost as town as the double voter?"
@Generic - but I did go somewhere with my questions to you. In #214 my suspicions of you were a result of those questions (the reason I asked you about Niv and the result of your response about not noticing that fulcrum moved off of LnGr). Your response afterward I found reasonable regarding the reasoning for backing off of LnGr but I still find it hard to believe that you wouldn't have been paying attention to fulcrum moving off of LnGr if one of your reasons for easing up was to see who else did. Feel like if you did something intentional like that you'd be on it. In #260 you were questioning people on their reads, but in your questions you were giving them answers - like, to Kosa that just reads like you were trying to appeal to him to reconsider his opinion on Niv. To DK, it reads similarly, because the question you asked him was followed by your explaining to him why you think HP is town prior to getting his answer. It doesn't read like suspicion of DK to me, it reads like trying to get him to see your point of view.
I said I'm torn on my opinion of you and I am. I don't think my top reads (SNL and KK) jive with a scum read on you because I doubt you'd start a case on one of your buddies and then support a case on your other. So I know that I haven't put it together yet. There are also other things you've done that give me town vibes - some of the things I've mentioned before but there are also little things like when Cantrip asked 6Cs how old he was. I thought that was a perceptive question that showed an inquisitive mindset of trying to figure out why 6Cs was playing like he was.
The reason I chose that time in the game to express my concern (and, previously, all of those other reads in #214) is because I wanted to put my thoughts in thread because I thought I had a good chance of being the NK the way things were shaping up at the time, and didn't want to run the risk of holding a suspicion back only to have no one look into it down the road. What makes you think that I should have moved my vote to you at that time when I was suspecting SNL more?
You say you worry that I was laying soft suspicion on you without outright expressing it and then seeing who was interested to start a wagon - but #214 was the most suspicion of you anyone had expressed all game and was outright - the only other person who showed suspicion after was HP, so what support do you think I thought I had? Why did you mention the part about you leading the wagon on SNL? Do you think I'm protecting SNL?
Fulcrum, how in your right mind do you get off telling me I need to go read another game when you won't spend less than 5 minutes skimming one of mine?
oh, and if you did that little research, like, you read one post, how did you even justify that as research to begin with? in fact, what post did I make, in a non game thread, describing my previous history, that wasn't a post in a game that you used to determine your opinion on me as being bad, and then how were you able to come to that conclusion without reading one of my games? can you link it? I have this sneaking suspicion that said post does not exist, and you're just lying your way out of a corner now.
oh, and you keep telling me a proper meta requires "far too much effort". I don't even want you to meta me, 90% of your case on me was language based tells, and my defense is that this is the language I use. if you didn't want this to come up, you shouldn't have wasted your time making up a case based on language tells. but, hey, again, you're scum, blatantly lying at this point, so, you know what, Lynch all Liars they say. unless of course you can find this post I made, describing my previous mafia experience, that I don't remember making, that lead you to both believe that I was "just bad" at the time of that post, but sill made it so you could make your "case" on me, without any knowledge of how I post.
SNL's last post just seams like they're making stuff up at this point, and they really need to die, like today. the amount that this lynch has been delayed for no reason at all is beyond me.
For all those who think SNL is a bad wagon, who is the alternative you are willing to push? I see a lot of comments that this is a bad wagon, but no true conviction to push anyone else.
Hookerpunch's posting has been abysmal these last few days.
MissLynch, I think you are getting a bit paranoid about DC3's suspicion of you, and your "You were obvtown until you started suspecting me" mindset doesn't feel townie. I remember asking Cantrip in RTR neighbor chat "If you were scum, who would you be bussing now?" and Cantrip got defensive, asking me if it was a serious question because if so he would start to become suspicious of me. I was just joking but I should have paid more attention to the defensiveness.
Re: the Niv/Fulcrum fight, both of them are mostly focusing on each other, with Niv wanting to end the day with a SNL lynch but not really doing anything other than saying, "SNL's posts are bad lynch it".
Niv, what's your opinion on long Days? Beneficial or not?
Fulcrum, I will /barn Niv and say I would like to see that post you read.
MissLynch, wasn't a misrep; I am hypothesizing that the "getting overly suspicious when attention is out on you" might be a broad tell, but I don't know for sure. That's why I specifically referenced the person I saw it with. If you end up scum, I will have another example if not, I will discount it.
DC3's playstyle seems to be to note everything he can in the thread to give more info to town. I don't think him airin a suspicion of you was really an "attack"; more of a "noting this for later for myself/others". Re: info dumping, if e is vanilla and draws the NK then I think he has done a good job.
One question: why didn't HookerPunch's vote on you cause you to comment?
You commented on the HP vote, but didn't press Hooker half as much as DC, who you had a town read on. But sure, given that HP hasn't done much posting, I can see your response as valid.
Re: suspicions, you have to remember you have been scum in a lot of games with me Gen. I am going to be suspicious of everything you do until you start getting town with me consider it a compliment.
On an off topic tangent, what do you think of the Niv/Fulcrum fight? (Since it resembles many of your D1 death battles.)
I'm not a big fan of days that go longer than they should. when you run someone to lynch -2, and they claim vanilla, you should probably lynch them, not waffle around while they do nothing to help their case. say in a hypothetical world, SNL claimed power that could be tested, sure, we would have needed to do something else today, but given the current situation, there's no reason this day hasn't ended, save for too many people being V/La, and other people stalling the game out.
DC3's playstyle seems to be to note everything he can in the thread to give more info to town. I don't think him airin a suspicion of you was really an "attack"; more of a "noting this for later for myself/others". Re: info dumping, if e is vanilla and draws the NK then I think he has done a good job.
Comments like this make my skin crawl. It's like, hmmmmm we have this really town player here, lets openly commend them for being really town, and say their going to get night killed. but then when someone else is night killed tonight, you can push suspicion on someone like him, simply based on him still being alive. it just wreaks of you having inside information, like you control the night kill or something.
I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
so, in the last 48 hours only 5 people have posted, out of the 13 (counting both half's of the hydra). this is pathetic, we don't deserve an extension.
Niv, I can somewhat see your point about controlling the NK, but I don't know any scum player dumb/ballsy enough to say "X player is town and still alive; therefore scum" on Day 2. Maybe Day 4 or 5 if they are confirmed town, but getting town to mislynch a PR is a risky move. 9 times out of 10 scum just kill the PR.
If I was scum, I certainly wouldn't be stupid enough I say, "Hey, DC3 must be scum because he wasn't the NK!" Especially not on D2.
Guys, I am going on a trip tomorrow and I have already requested replacement. I'm sorry that I didn't provide you all with a lot of input, but I leave you with this:
I reeaalllyyy don't think that you guys should be lynching SNL
It may be worthwhile to scrutinize Kosa more
I don't trust dkings, but I have no physical evidence to explain this
You all should (probably) listen to fulcrum because she seems to be the most townie person in this game
I realize that these points aren't useful in the least bit, but do what you will with them. Lastly, good luck, guys! I hope that the replacement will be of more use than I have been.
Also, it's just a theory, but don't be afraid to go number 2--it'll prevent constipation in even the bleakest of situations (Don't read too hard into that)
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"I'm a compulsive liar no matter what team I play on, but I'm trying to get better about it."
I'm back. I skimmed what I missed, but I spent the past 5 days counselling a group of 8 to 12 year old boys for 14+ hours each day. I'm still exhausted. Plus this weekend is still busy, so I don't have much time to recover.
I was considering replacing until I saw hans was, but now I think I'll tough it out. I'm sorry, but I don't think I'll be much more use toDay.
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I'll bet you wish you had a non-unglued/unhinged card that shared your first name.
Hans replacement request is noted; search will commence.
cccccc808 has not posted within 24 hours of his prod and will be forcibly replaced. His votes have been reset due to forced replacement
I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
Mod Announcement: Because of two simultaneous replacement issues, I am suspending the deadline temporarily. When replacements have been found the Deadline will be extended by 72 hours. This is subject to change depending on how fast replacements are found.
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I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
@Generic - Your post to me is full of skewed logic and is incredibly self-centric in its approach. And you seem to (or should be) aware of that because you say that's how you play when someone suspects you. But yet you're doing it anyway? I'll go through your post by major points.
Okay - you and Cantrip is different than you and Rhand and is different than just you. You say that you don't have numerous suspicions and you get petty about people attacking you. That's not what happened in Deus Ex. Everyone was pretty much town reading you and you were initiating most of your pushes, which were several, and had nothing to do with people suspecting you. I'm sure that happens, but I've seen you play otherwise as well. Regardless, meta is not a big part of my suspicion of you, it's just an awareness I have of how you've been when I've played with you in the past.
So, the fulcrum point. I don't think it's likely you'd have missed fulcrum. Not because I'm metaing you and saying that you keep multiple reads open or because of anything that's overly Generic specific. If it was just a matter of you being focused on LnGr and not noticing something that fulcrum did, I'd be much more inclined to believe that as well. It's because you said that one of the purposes of stepping back from LnGr when you did was to see if anyone followed you. So, for any good player, if they made a play and the purpose of their action was to look for a specific thing, and that specific thing happened, and then they say that they didn't notice it, I find that suspicious. Here's how that discussion went, paraphrased:
"Hey Generic, why were you worried about it being a pile on LnGr when you were suspecting him."
"For (reasons), and also because I wanted to see if anyone would follow me."
"But, wait, fulcrum followed you and you didn't say anything about that."
"I didn't notice her do that because I was so focused on LnGr."
So that's suspicious to me.
In your argument you say that you don't put all of your cards on the table and just because you're not talking about something doesn't mean you aren't thinking about it or mulling it over - and yet you think that just because I hadn't brought up the fulcrum point again after #214 that the only reason I had suspicions about you were #260? You were one of the players that I suspected. My suspicions weren't as concrete as those that I had on SNL or KK, so I didn't case you or "make my move", because you weren't my strongest read and I was still undecided on it. There are also other points that I didn't mention that I thought spoke both to your potential to be scum or town. I gave a high level overview on the ones that I thought were most telling either way. I also hadn't mentioned suspicion of DK or Hans prior to that either, but that didn't make my suspicions of them any less valid.
When you responded that I was missing why you got off of LnGr - I found that point believable because I think there's a line from you earlier that jived with that, but I was thrown because Cantrip didn't seem to be aware... that doesn't mean that I'm not still mulling over the fulcrum point, or the point about Cantrip's non-committal stance on his read on Niv followed by saying he was "still" town reading him (and, also, even if that point is true as to why you got off of LnGr and we're on the same page, that doesn't make you town because of that).
I tabled it because I hadn't made my mind up one way or the other. When #260 happened, I also pointed that out, just for itself, because I had issues with it and it gave me a bad feeling - because you said that fulcrum was a lean town read for you and one of the reasons you gave was because you could say you had concerns with most other players - and #260 did not read to me like you had concerns with any of those players.
Quoting this part of the post to make it more clear what I'm referring to from here because this is the really bad part of your post:
I mentioned leading the push on SNL because he is claiming I'm just barning niv and pushing he wagon along. And that's belittling my involvement in catching him. How did you miss that?
And as for your comment about SNL, I will show you my tin foil hat theory since everything is now out there.
You began throwing out suspicions on everyone after a declaration from the double voter to vote SNL who I believe was at either L-3 or L-2.
When 6C does vote fulcrum pulls her vote.
Your push on me keeps changing to the next post I haven't disputed, without you returning to any point until now.
You also pulled your vote from SNL to KK when 6C made the commitment to the SNL wagon.
Your push on fulcrum and this continual attempt to link me to her with the 'how could you miss that' push also has me wondering. You have shown suspicion of fulcrum but it's always seemed to be in posts where you are making enquiries to others to, and you never sem to be ready to actually vote for her.
If SNL flips scum I wouldn't find it too hard to believe a DC3, SNL, fulcrum scum team.
And unlike your claim about info dumping through fear of the night kill (inside the first 250 posts when you supposedly have no idea who the scum team actually are? Why would you be a target if you have none of the scum team under suspicion for example?) I like to focus on one lead at a time and try not to make myself MORE of a target by potentially cracking the game (even if it's by a fluke) in one go.
But since your aim is to press focus on me, all I can hope is my efforts warn protection. And now at least my theory is out there for assessment.
You have made KK an unaligned pair with you from how it's gone down. So you two are actually interchangeable on my T/S list.
And it all starts with SNL, who you are now trying to extend the deadline for. Because an extension makes people post more how?
~ Gen
I didn't miss the SNL reason behind what he said to you about Niv - I was asking you why you included that in your response to me, because I was right - you're trying to link me with SNL. To your points:
1. Your 6Cs comment seems designed to make me look scummy "he even cast suspicion on the double voter" is the intent. The hypocrisy is that your partner gave the line after about Niv saying that scum double voters have a restriction and then 6Cs said that he has a restriction. I was asking 6Cs to explain his thought process as to why he made the play that he did because I don't think that him just being a double voter clears him. Really, nothing he did made me start town reading him, it was actually the way that everyone else reacted to his claim that made me think he was most likely town. The thing is, you know that I don't just back off of PRs if I think their play is scummy because I was just on, then off, then back on the uncountered cop/role cop role in Deus Ex.
2. fulcrum pulling her vote after 6Cs votes has nothing to do with me but you're trying to link all of us (which is also bad because you later say I'm trying to link you and fulcrum, which I wasn't... I was only pointing out YOUR behavior about not catching that she unvoted LnGr... I made no inferences about what that meant about the two of you).
3. Covered this one above.
4. I didn't unvote SNL and vote KK - I unvoted KK and voted SNL. I was town reading SNL until his T/S list where he listed fulcrum as town and me as scum despite fulcrum /barning me - so I asked him about it and he said that fulcrum's /barn play was the reason he thought she was town because she did that in Waltz - that's when I voted in #213 - and it was because of that. He supported LnGr's suspicion of her without saying anything about the /barning being towny. So this point is just wrong.
5. "continual attempt to link" you and fulcrum is just straight inaccurate. My whole point is about not believing that YOU would not notice that fulcrum backed off of LnGr when YOU said that one of the reasons that you backed off of him was to see who else did! That's not a link, that's just focused on you. Furthermore - I've had a town lean on fulcrum so why would you think that I would want to vote her? I've expressed some suspicion about things she's done, questioning the timing of her leaving LnGr and voting Niv, /barning me in the way that she did, and most recently calling me out for not leaving the SNL wagon - but I've also thought she's done a lot of things that point to her being town and explained those. I've expressed suspicion of many other players but haven't been "willing to vote them" ... so why are you singling out fulcrum?
The above are riddled with inaccuracies and I think you're making stuff up now.
And unlike your claim about info dumping through fear of the night kill (inside the first 250 posts when you supposedly have no idea who the scum team actually are? Why would you be a target if you have none of the scum team under suspicion for example?) I like to focus on one lead at a time and try not to make myself MORE of a target by potentially cracking the game (even if it's by a fluke) in one go.
- that's just a straight lie and the rest is an attempt to smear me:
I know you guys will think we are being chaotic right now, but myself and Rhand are currently in the mindset of trying to solve this game on day 1... Which we are slowly compromising on (but we are also acutely aware of how much of a target we will be in night phase creating this urgency).
The above is you - playing as a SK (but attempting to solve the game as town) in the last game we played together - at post 366. You were making yourself more of a target by trying to crack the game all in one go AND you thought you might be the Night Kill. So your post above from this game is disingenuous. Plus, it's not hard to tell when there's the potential that you might be the Night Kill. That had nothing to do in the accuracy of my reads, and everything to do with how people were expressing their reads of me at that time.
But, again - that makes me think that that whole point of yours is just BS and you're trying to use it to smear me... and you're trying to link me with SNL and fulcrum - which now makes me think you're scum for sure and I wouldn't be surprised if at least one of they were as well.
Unvote: Vote: Miss_Lynch
If there are doubters out there after reading this, I'll pull a page out of Generic's book and be happy to go 1 for 1 with the hydra. Your call - but I'm sure that I want to resolve this now prior to later in the game.
@DCIII: I don't want to go too deep into your case on Generic, until he gets a chance to respond, but I have one question for you. do you really feel they're the lynch pin in this whole mess? I'm beyond sold that Fulcrum/SNL are scum together, Fulcrum's caught lying, SNL's scum for the overall spotty play, and recent posts by fulcrum have tied them beyond together as well.
I agree with the part at the end about Generic trying to link you to SNL/fulcrum but with how tied together the two of them are now, you say you wouldn't be surprised if "at least one" of them is scum with you as well. what's your opinion on the 3 man team of SNL/fulcrum/Gentrip? I can't see a world where fulcrum's not scum, and then by connections, I can't see a world where SNL isn't scum. then your post outlines the aforementioned linking attempt, which I now see as well, trying to tie you in with SNL/fulcrum. in your Point 5 as well, you even talk about your mixed feelings regarding fulcrum too, but still maintaining a town read on them at the time, what's your opinion on fulcrum currently? are you still leaning town? do you think a SNL/Gentrip/?????? scum team is more likely than the SNL/Gentrip/fulcrum one?
That disparity there though between the one hydra and the other is beyond incriminating though.
that wound up being way more than one question btw.
I'll respond to everyone in more detail tonight but quickly.
Niv - if Gentrip is scum then I agree with your assessment about fulcrum being much more likely to be scum - if that's not the whole scum team.
Generic - You're right. I don't want to lynch SNL today. If you're scum, I probably will tomorrow. You can lynch me first if you're so sure, I'm happy to trade and will go first. Are you down?
LOL - SNL isn't important to me. I was responding to you saying that I was moving off of him. You're the one making him important and keep trying to tie me to him. I wish I had many more votes.
I do think SNL's relevant silence is a pretty big indicator he is scum. He made that one post, but has t fought any more. Of course, in this game, half the people are silent. (Which is pretty bad, considering that I am actually on a road trip vacation and still find time to post here and there.)
Gen, I'm completely sold that you're scum. Trade with me. If you think I'm trying to save SNL then this shouldn't be a concern for you because I'd be scum, right? And a 1 for 1 trade with scum should be a good thing for you, right? You're sold on SNL and thereby linking me with him - so why not just go with me first? At this point if you're right about me (you're not), then SNL wouldn't have anywhere to hide by your theory. Really, there are enough people expressing suspicion of SNL right now that you shouldn't be worried about him end gaming - I'd think you'd want to catch me. I want to catch you, that's why my focus is on you.
The rest of the group can decide who goes first. If its me, when I flip town then its Gentrip Tomorrow. If its Gentrip, then if I'm wrong (spoiler, I'm not), I'll go without a fight Tomorrow. If you're right (you're not) then SNL won't be sheltered when I'm gone and the connection is right there for everyone, so the order shouldn't matter to you.
SNL is probably also scum with Gentrip, FTR, and I'd bet on fulcrum, or DK as the third, in that order of likelihood. Niv and Kosa as very outside possibilities, in that order of likelihood.
HP, 6Cs, LnGr, Hans, and KK are all very likely to be town if I'm right about Generic, IMO, and I think that the first four are probably so at this point regardless.
@Everyone else - do you agree to a 1 v. 1 with me and Gentrip? If so, who do you want to lynch?
I am definitely not up for a 1v1. I feel DC3 is town, and I think that Generic/Cantrip's slot should be figured out another Day.
Even if SNL is town, as you noted already DC3, he is mislynch bait when it comes to LyLo.
DC3, if SNL flips scum, do you think Generic is his buddy? (Anyone can answer that question if they want to, but I would at least like DC3 to answer.)
HP's absence is becoming quite noticeable. Which is saying a lot this game. I think scum are trying to lurk their way around this lynch, and they are doing it because town is letting them. (Yet another reason I don't advocate a 1v1... At least Generic is putting info into the thread.)
Regarding the 1 v 1: I have solid scum reads on SNL, and fulcrum, and I really think that the fulcrum flip is the lynch pin at this point, they're obviously caught lying scum, trying to avoid having to come into the thread and admit it. last post three days ago, last online, 8 hours ago. when fulcrum flips, we can then lynch SNL, and then we can 1 v 1. I'm still willing to lynch SNL today, if need be though, but with the deadline extension and all, lets put do this the right way.
Generic - opinions on the game change when you get different reads. I mentioned that KK wouldn't be a suspect of mine if I was right about you being scum, which I'm pretty sure that I am. All of that part from you was just an attempt to discredit me.
Your attempts to link me to SNL are bad, like, really really bad. How did I react to save SNL from 6Cs because he's a double voter? The first time I moved my vote off of SNL is when I just put it on you. Show me where I moved my vote off of SNL twice.
You keep saying that steering focus away from SNL implicates me. I'm saying LYNCH me if you think that's the case. If your most confident scum read is SNL and you think that SNL's scum flip implicates me, then you should be pretty confident that I'm scum and be willing to do that deal, knowing full well that SNL wouldn't be long for this game after.
@LnGr - I think that Gentrip is scum independent of SNL's alignment. I do think it's probably likely that SNL is also scum, both because of the unresolved stance around fulcrum and because of how hard Generic has been trying to link me to him. But Generic is my strongest read and I also think he's a lot more slippery than SNL and I want to make sure that I'm alive either to catch him or put something into place that catches him because I don't trust that he won't wriggle out of it if I'm gone and we haven't all agreed to a 1 v. 1. People should re-read my posts about him, and read his subsequent posts if you aren't convinced.
@Niv - no on fulcrum. Absolutely don't want to be dealing with the 1 v. 1 last and want to pursue Gentrip first. If no one gets on board with handling my 1 v. 1 proposal Today, which I really think we need to take care of first, then I'd compromise with a SNL lynch Today as he's my second strongest read right now, but then we really have to handle Gentrip/myself after that.
Like LnGrrR's lack of foresight is super annoying but I'm unsure of the lazy tunnel on me is due
So the thing that pinned me on DCIII was that Generic-sama was completely off the table as a valid candidate until I pushed him into it. Everyone else(rightly) ignored my useless votes, but DCIII actually made a small coordinated effort to build a case out of nothing--taking the bait to hedge on a case and scumread that didn't rightfully exist until I willed it so to speak.
Thanks for the follow up though, Genericantripomandudecer, because I didn't have the care to follow through.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Natirasha by any other name...
Either way, we're all gonna burn
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Yes it surely can. This ain't the case here, however: it feels way too much calculated.
Explain what this vote is for. No reasoning, and no effort. You already stated you don't like the SNL wagon, but didn't say why. Now is a good time.
Also find it strange that people posting after this vote didn't comment on it.
DC3, to be more specific, what would you think of Fulcrum's jump from me to Niv in the hypothetical case I was mod-confirmed?
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
I already pointed out one post from HP that I thought was completely useless and mentioned that if it wasn't for Deus Ex I'd be voting her. The vote on you guys was also useless. She is inching closer and closer to going on my list of players I actively want to lynch even in games where I think they're town.
Kosa, this is where you and I differ 180 degrees on Niv. I think his posts in this game have been anything but calculated. He reads to me as though he is shooting entirely from the hip.
Not Voting: Hans, cccccc808
A reminder that your deadline is in SIX days
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@LnGr - The question, for me, has been whether or not town fulcrum would unvote you there (because I can see motivation for scum fulcrum to unvote there regardless of your alignment) but I think it's probable that she did because it's consistent with her suspicions in earlier postings, because she changed her mind to thinking he was "bad town" right before her vote, and then changed her mind back again (think as scum she'd have tried to be more consistent in such a short time frame), and because my town read on her is strengthening for other reasons.
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Vote: SNL
Still want an answer from HookerPunch on that vote.
DC3, fair enough.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Not Voting: Hans, cccccc808
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1. SNL didn't selfhammer.
2. He's resigned to be lynched, which doesn't match up with my scum experience with him in Porcelain Waltz.
3. He's pushing one scumread instead of opportunistically jumping on people.
Get off this wagon.
@Kosa and fulcrum: both of you are railing on me, but both of you are unwilling completly to respond to me responding to your cases. fulcrum's the worst for it, openly admitting blatent hypocrisy, and isn't even shying away from it or defending against that accusation. I responded to Kosa's vote on me here and he's just calling people drunk for reading me town, while still not responding to anything I've said to him. I really don't know what I should be doing at this point with regards to you two, or are you just scum together? I'm honestly at a point where I can't see any reason you'd both still just be stuck on me without even being willing to respond to me.
Fulcrum's last vote on me, which I'd assume is still using the 100% flawed logic from the previous attacks on me, but it adds in the world's most spotty vote count analysis I've ever seen. you know what scum is on that wagon: You.
and Kosa's last post, in the same 2 consecutive paragraphs writes off his adhom smearing of the people reading me as town as rage against the curse software, but then follows it it with another bloody attack on my writing style. have you bothered skimming that game I linked fulcrum multiple times now? oh and that line at the end just declaring fulcrum town. you two are so tied together at this point you're practically siameese twins. but hey, you can write off your actual smearing attacks as acceptable because those people disagreed with you, oh, what, that's generally what smearing is, but I misinterpret one post regarding some termanology that didn't exsist when I stopped playing, and you just won't let off, and won't respond to my counter arguments? but hey, my posts are all "calculated" too. that's great. I have no ******* clue where you get that from now, but hey, that makes me scum? I can't bloody respond to that, like, what am I supposed to say?
---------
all that ***** aside, why isn't SNL dead yet? not self hammering isn't a town tell. neither scum, nor town want to die, ever. if scum thinks they can talk their way out of a case, they will. fulcrum's backing off of SNL so hard it's pretty painful at this point. SNL's done nothing to actually give us reason to back off of him yet, but hey, we;re stalling, people aren't posting. SNL is the day's lynch at this point, he's claimed Vanilla, and fulcrum wants us off of the wagon for more spotty reasoning. why is this lynch not going through? all we're getting from SNL is promises of content and stalling, and people that are enabling it. I really don't understand anything that's going on in this thread at this point. unless I just take the people not making sense, write them off as scum, and everything makes perfect sense. Imagine that, the system works.
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
Niv's upset that a mislynch might not go through.
Oh, and how is my votecount analysis spotty? Is it the way I assumed I am town?
Your vote count analysts is bad because vote count analysis doesn't work until someone's dead.
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
Summarize why you think SNL is scum.
but hey, you're scum too, so why am I even explaining any of this to get through, and it's not like you're going to even respond anything I post either.
and while just looking back over your posts, your last few ones have been so inconsistant, Fulcrum, you went from your crap case on me, to not feeling the wagon, to voting SNL, to not voting SNL, to voting me again, while all still not responding to anything I've said, but I then came across this gem:
Which when I first responded to it, was pretty awful, given current context, is even worse. you've acknowledged that you did "a bit" of research on me, even if it is "almost nothing" is still "a bit", but now, you're refusing to respond to anything I say, but you admitted earlier that you did read over something, regardless of how much it actually was. but then when I tell you to skim one of my games, you refuse saying you won't meta me, but you've already did a minor meta on me, and really that's all you need.
so, yah, if you're unwilling to meta me, then why did you meta me, and then why did you come to this conclusion when you did meta me, but when I did tell you your case was filled with holes that can be resolved just by skimming one of my old game, you're now unwilling to meta me. wait, what, didn't you do that earlier? Yah, your scum, you're weakly defending SNL, who is scum, with you. 2 for 2.
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
Vote: DCII Hook line sinker
Either way, we're all gonna burn
Don't want a quick hammer while SNL is responding. Busy tonight, but will try to post thoughts tomorrow.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
@Hookerpunch- Could you please explain your vote on DC?
Previous Mafia Experience:
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Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
My current opinion on LnGr is in the thread a couple of times.
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Generic - In response to this:
The reason I have the suspicion that I do about your #260 is not because you're imposing your views or questioning players - you did that all throughout the last game we played together (where you were acting as town with your reads despite not being town). It's because the whole post is devil's advocate, defending two players from two others and your entire tone doesn't seem to suspect any of them.
In your response to me about why fulcrum was a lean town read, one of the reasons you mentioned was POE because you had some reason to suspect most other players - but in #260, your post has a tone of thinking that everyone mentioned in there are all town because of the way you're reasoning with two of them to try to get them to come around on their thinking on the other two. So that's Niv, DK, Kosa, HP who you don't seem to be suspicious of - you've said you had a town read on me, a town lean on fulcrum, I presume that you think 6Cs is town since you unvoted after his double vote and haven't focused on him since... and per our recent discussions you seem to think that LnGr is town - so that leaves SNL, KK, and possibly Hans - which doesn't seem much like you're suspicious of many people despite saying that you were, which seems off to me both because it seems like a contradiction and because I feel like you've been more volatile/suspicious with your reads when I've played with you as town (or acting as town) in the past.
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HP - you're wrong. What do you think of Gentrip's #260?
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Niv: There is nothing implicitly wrong with self meta statements. In fact, I've found that most scum are aware they do nothing to convince people and do not use them. SNL's reads have been consistent, with the minor exception of the thing about me, but his explanation for that fits our previous experience together. Likewise, if you read the last page or so of Porcelain Waltz where he explained his decision to shoot hans there, you'll understand his mindset behind his read on hans here. That post you linked showed a lack of self-consciousness that is undeniably towny. The vanilla claim works in his favor, as I believe scum!SNL would be smart enough to fakeclaim at this point to draw out another claim, especially when he believes he's going down (because that resignation was not faked). Do you understand why I have trouble believing you are actually this bad?
Oh, and when I say "almost nothing," I mean I read a single post from you in another thread describing your previous mafia experience. I'm not going to meta you, because a proper meta requires far too much effort. Deal with it.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
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Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
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cccccc808 was officially proded.
Kosakosa was pre-prodded.
DKL has informed me he is essentially v/LA over weekends, and thus will not be pre-prodded until Monday.
Your deadline is in FOUR DAYS, TWO HOURS, 36 MINUTES, on TUESDAY, JUNE 17TH, @ 23:30 EDT
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It doesn't make sense to me.
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@Generic - but I did go somewhere with my questions to you. In #214 my suspicions of you were a result of those questions (the reason I asked you about Niv and the result of your response about not noticing that fulcrum moved off of LnGr). Your response afterward I found reasonable regarding the reasoning for backing off of LnGr but I still find it hard to believe that you wouldn't have been paying attention to fulcrum moving off of LnGr if one of your reasons for easing up was to see who else did. Feel like if you did something intentional like that you'd be on it. In #260 you were questioning people on their reads, but in your questions you were giving them answers - like, to Kosa that just reads like you were trying to appeal to him to reconsider his opinion on Niv. To DK, it reads similarly, because the question you asked him was followed by your explaining to him why you think HP is town prior to getting his answer. It doesn't read like suspicion of DK to me, it reads like trying to get him to see your point of view.
I said I'm torn on my opinion of you and I am. I don't think my top reads (SNL and KK) jive with a scum read on you because I doubt you'd start a case on one of your buddies and then support a case on your other. So I know that I haven't put it together yet. There are also other things you've done that give me town vibes - some of the things I've mentioned before but there are also little things like when Cantrip asked 6Cs how old he was. I thought that was a perceptive question that showed an inquisitive mindset of trying to figure out why 6Cs was playing like he was.
The reason I chose that time in the game to express my concern (and, previously, all of those other reads in #214) is because I wanted to put my thoughts in thread because I thought I had a good chance of being the NK the way things were shaping up at the time, and didn't want to run the risk of holding a suspicion back only to have no one look into it down the road. What makes you think that I should have moved my vote to you at that time when I was suspecting SNL more?
You say you worry that I was laying soft suspicion on you without outright expressing it and then seeing who was interested to start a wagon - but #214 was the most suspicion of you anyone had expressed all game and was outright - the only other person who showed suspicion after was HP, so what support do you think I thought I had? Why did you mention the part about you leading the wagon on SNL? Do you think I'm protecting SNL?
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
oh, and if you did that little research, like, you read one post, how did you even justify that as research to begin with? in fact, what post did I make, in a non game thread, describing my previous history, that wasn't a post in a game that you used to determine your opinion on me as being bad, and then how were you able to come to that conclusion without reading one of my games? can you link it? I have this sneaking suspicion that said post does not exist, and you're just lying your way out of a corner now.
oh, and you keep telling me a proper meta requires "far too much effort". I don't even want you to meta me, 90% of your case on me was language based tells, and my defense is that this is the language I use. if you didn't want this to come up, you shouldn't have wasted your time making up a case based on language tells. but, hey, again, you're scum, blatantly lying at this point, so, you know what, Lynch all Liars they say. unless of course you can find this post I made, describing my previous mafia experience, that I don't remember making, that lead you to both believe that I was "just bad" at the time of that post, but sill made it so you could make your "case" on me, without any knowledge of how I post.
SNL's last post just seams like they're making stuff up at this point, and they really need to die, like today. the amount that this lynch has been delayed for no reason at all is beyond me.
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
Hookerpunch's posting has been abysmal these last few days.
MissLynch, I think you are getting a bit paranoid about DC3's suspicion of you, and your "You were obvtown until you started suspecting me" mindset doesn't feel townie. I remember asking Cantrip in RTR neighbor chat "If you were scum, who would you be bussing now?" and Cantrip got defensive, asking me if it was a serious question because if so he would start to become suspicious of me. I was just joking but I should have paid more attention to the defensiveness.
Re: the Niv/Fulcrum fight, both of them are mostly focusing on each other, with Niv wanting to end the day with a SNL lynch but not really doing anything other than saying, "SNL's posts are bad lynch it".
Niv, what's your opinion on long Days? Beneficial or not?
Fulcrum, I will /barn Niv and say I would like to see that post you read.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
DC3's playstyle seems to be to note everything he can in the thread to give more info to town. I don't think him airin a suspicion of you was really an "attack"; more of a "noting this for later for myself/others". Re: info dumping, if e is vanilla and draws the NK then I think he has done a good job.
One question: why didn't HookerPunch's vote on you cause you to comment?
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Re: suspicions, you have to remember you have been scum in a lot of games with me Gen. I am going to be suspicious of everything you do until you start getting town with me
On an off topic tangent, what do you think of the Niv/Fulcrum fight? (Since it resembles many of your D1 death battles.)
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Comments like this make my skin crawl. It's like, hmmmmm we have this really town player here, lets openly commend them for being really town, and say their going to get night killed. but then when someone else is night killed tonight, you can push suspicion on someone like him, simply based on him still being alive. it just wreaks of you having inside information, like you control the night kill or something.
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There will be no extension of the deadline.
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If I was scum, I certainly wouldn't be stupid enough I say, "Hey, DC3 must be scum because he wasn't the NK!" Especially not on D2.
Vote SNL
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
I realize that these points aren't useful in the least bit, but do what you will with them. Lastly, good luck, guys! I hope that the replacement will be of more use than I have been.
Also, it's just a theory, but don't be afraid to go number 2--it'll prevent constipation in even the bleakest of situations
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I was considering replacing until I saw hans was, but now I think I'll tough it out. I'm sorry, but I don't think I'll be much more use toDay.
cccccc808 has not posted within 24 hours of his prod and will be forcibly replaced. His votes have been reset due to forced replacement
Vote Count:
Not Voting: <Hans Slot>, <cccccc808 slot>, <cccccc808 slot>
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@Generic - Your post to me is full of skewed logic and is incredibly self-centric in its approach. And you seem to (or should be) aware of that because you say that's how you play when someone suspects you. But yet you're doing it anyway? I'll go through your post by major points.
Okay - you and Cantrip is different than you and Rhand and is different than just you. You say that you don't have numerous suspicions and you get petty about people attacking you. That's not what happened in Deus Ex. Everyone was pretty much town reading you and you were initiating most of your pushes, which were several, and had nothing to do with people suspecting you. I'm sure that happens, but I've seen you play otherwise as well. Regardless, meta is not a big part of my suspicion of you, it's just an awareness I have of how you've been when I've played with you in the past.
So, the fulcrum point. I don't think it's likely you'd have missed fulcrum. Not because I'm metaing you and saying that you keep multiple reads open or because of anything that's overly Generic specific. If it was just a matter of you being focused on LnGr and not noticing something that fulcrum did, I'd be much more inclined to believe that as well. It's because you said that one of the purposes of stepping back from LnGr when you did was to see if anyone followed you. So, for any good player, if they made a play and the purpose of their action was to look for a specific thing, and that specific thing happened, and then they say that they didn't notice it, I find that suspicious. Here's how that discussion went, paraphrased:
"Hey Generic, why were you worried about it being a pile on LnGr when you were suspecting him."
"For (reasons), and also because I wanted to see if anyone would follow me."
"But, wait, fulcrum followed you and you didn't say anything about that."
"I didn't notice her do that because I was so focused on LnGr."
So that's suspicious to me.
In your argument you say that you don't put all of your cards on the table and just because you're not talking about something doesn't mean you aren't thinking about it or mulling it over - and yet you think that just because I hadn't brought up the fulcrum point again after #214 that the only reason I had suspicions about you were #260? You were one of the players that I suspected. My suspicions weren't as concrete as those that I had on SNL or KK, so I didn't case you or "make my move", because you weren't my strongest read and I was still undecided on it. There are also other points that I didn't mention that I thought spoke both to your potential to be scum or town. I gave a high level overview on the ones that I thought were most telling either way. I also hadn't mentioned suspicion of DK or Hans prior to that either, but that didn't make my suspicions of them any less valid.
When you responded that I was missing why you got off of LnGr - I found that point believable because I think there's a line from you earlier that jived with that, but I was thrown because Cantrip didn't seem to be aware... that doesn't mean that I'm not still mulling over the fulcrum point, or the point about Cantrip's non-committal stance on his read on Niv followed by saying he was "still" town reading him (and, also, even if that point is true as to why you got off of LnGr and we're on the same page, that doesn't make you town because of that).
I tabled it because I hadn't made my mind up one way or the other. When #260 happened, I also pointed that out, just for itself, because I had issues with it and it gave me a bad feeling - because you said that fulcrum was a lean town read for you and one of the reasons you gave was because you could say you had concerns with most other players - and #260 did not read to me like you had concerns with any of those players.
Quoting this part of the post to make it more clear what I'm referring to from here because this is the really bad part of your post:
I didn't miss the SNL reason behind what he said to you about Niv - I was asking you why you included that in your response to me, because I was right - you're trying to link me with SNL. To your points:
1. Your 6Cs comment seems designed to make me look scummy "he even cast suspicion on the double voter" is the intent. The hypocrisy is that your partner gave the line after about Niv saying that scum double voters have a restriction and then 6Cs said that he has a restriction. I was asking 6Cs to explain his thought process as to why he made the play that he did because I don't think that him just being a double voter clears him. Really, nothing he did made me start town reading him, it was actually the way that everyone else reacted to his claim that made me think he was most likely town. The thing is, you know that I don't just back off of PRs if I think their play is scummy because I was just on, then off, then back on the uncountered cop/role cop role in Deus Ex.
2. fulcrum pulling her vote after 6Cs votes has nothing to do with me but you're trying to link all of us (which is also bad because you later say I'm trying to link you and fulcrum, which I wasn't... I was only pointing out YOUR behavior about not catching that she unvoted LnGr... I made no inferences about what that meant about the two of you).
3. Covered this one above.
4. I didn't unvote SNL and vote KK - I unvoted KK and voted SNL. I was town reading SNL until his T/S list where he listed fulcrum as town and me as scum despite fulcrum /barning me - so I asked him about it and he said that fulcrum's /barn play was the reason he thought she was town because she did that in Waltz - that's when I voted in #213 - and it was because of that. He supported LnGr's suspicion of her without saying anything about the /barning being towny. So this point is just wrong.
5. "continual attempt to link" you and fulcrum is just straight inaccurate. My whole point is about not believing that YOU would not notice that fulcrum backed off of LnGr when YOU said that one of the reasons that you backed off of him was to see who else did! That's not a link, that's just focused on you. Furthermore - I've had a town lean on fulcrum so why would you think that I would want to vote her? I've expressed some suspicion about things she's done, questioning the timing of her leaving LnGr and voting Niv, /barning me in the way that she did, and most recently calling me out for not leaving the SNL wagon - but I've also thought she's done a lot of things that point to her being town and explained those. I've expressed suspicion of many other players but haven't been "willing to vote them" ... so why are you singling out fulcrum?
The above are riddled with inaccuracies and I think you're making stuff up now.
As for the Night Kill comment here:
- that's just a straight lie and the rest is an attempt to smear me:
The above is you - playing as a SK (but attempting to solve the game as town) in the last game we played together - at post 366. You were making yourself more of a target by trying to crack the game all in one go AND you thought you might be the Night Kill. So your post above from this game is disingenuous. Plus, it's not hard to tell when there's the potential that you might be the Night Kill. That had nothing to do in the accuracy of my reads, and everything to do with how people were expressing their reads of me at that time.
But, again - that makes me think that that whole point of yours is just BS and you're trying to use it to smear me... and you're trying to link me with SNL and fulcrum - which now makes me think you're scum for sure and I wouldn't be surprised if at least one of they were as well.
Unvote: Vote: Miss_Lynch
If there are doubters out there after reading this, I'll pull a page out of Generic's book and be happy to go 1 for 1 with the hydra. Your call - but I'm sure that I want to resolve this now prior to later in the game.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
I agree with the part at the end about Generic trying to link you to SNL/fulcrum but with how tied together the two of them are now, you say you wouldn't be surprised if "at least one" of them is scum with you as well. what's your opinion on the 3 man team of SNL/fulcrum/Gentrip? I can't see a world where fulcrum's not scum, and then by connections, I can't see a world where SNL isn't scum. then your post outlines the aforementioned linking attempt, which I now see as well, trying to tie you in with SNL/fulcrum. in your Point 5 as well, you even talk about your mixed feelings regarding fulcrum too, but still maintaining a town read on them at the time, what's your opinion on fulcrum currently? are you still leaning town? do you think a SNL/Gentrip/?????? scum team is more likely than the SNL/Gentrip/fulcrum one?
That disparity there though between the one hydra and the other is beyond incriminating though.
that wound up being way more than one question btw.
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
Niv - if Gentrip is scum then I agree with your assessment about fulcrum being much more likely to be scum - if that's not the whole scum team.
Generic - You're right. I don't want to lynch SNL today. If you're scum, I probably will tomorrow. You can lynch me first if you're so sure, I'm happy to trade and will go first. Are you down?
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
I do think SNL's relevant silence is a pretty big indicator he is scum. He made that one post, but has t fought any more. Of course, in this game, half the people are silent. (Which is pretty bad, considering that I am actually on a road trip vacation and still find time to post here and there.)
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
The rest of the group can decide who goes first. If its me, when I flip town then its Gentrip Tomorrow. If its Gentrip, then if I'm wrong (spoiler, I'm not), I'll go without a fight Tomorrow. If you're right (you're not) then SNL won't be sheltered when I'm gone and the connection is right there for everyone, so the order shouldn't matter to you.
SNL is probably also scum with Gentrip, FTR, and I'd bet on fulcrum, or DK as the third, in that order of likelihood. Niv and Kosa as very outside possibilities, in that order of likelihood.
HP, 6Cs, LnGr, Hans, and KK are all very likely to be town if I'm right about Generic, IMO, and I think that the first four are probably so at this point regardless.
@Everyone else - do you agree to a 1 v. 1 with me and Gentrip? If so, who do you want to lynch?
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
Even if SNL is town, as you noted already DC3, he is mislynch bait when it comes to LyLo.
DC3, if SNL flips scum, do you think Generic is his buddy? (Anyone can answer that question if they want to, but I would at least like DC3 to answer.)
HP's absence is becoming quite noticeable. Which is saying a lot this game. I think scum are trying to lurk their way around this lynch, and they are doing it because town is letting them. (Yet another reason I don't advocate a 1v1... At least Generic is putting info into the thread.)
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
UnVote, Vote fulcrum
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
The 1v1 is moronic, and I'm not lynching DC. I'd prefer Generic to SNL, but only just.
But seriously, how can any of you think SNL is scum? Just look at the guy: He's given up. And when scum are at L-1 and give up, they self hammer.
Your attempts to link me to SNL are bad, like, really really bad. How did I react to save SNL from 6Cs because he's a double voter? The first time I moved my vote off of SNL is when I just put it on you. Show me where I moved my vote off of SNL twice.
You keep saying that steering focus away from SNL implicates me. I'm saying LYNCH me if you think that's the case. If your most confident scum read is SNL and you think that SNL's scum flip implicates me, then you should be pretty confident that I'm scum and be willing to do that deal, knowing full well that SNL wouldn't be long for this game after.
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@LnGr - I think that Gentrip is scum independent of SNL's alignment. I do think it's probably likely that SNL is also scum, both because of the unresolved stance around fulcrum and because of how hard Generic has been trying to link me to him. But Generic is my strongest read and I also think he's a lot more slippery than SNL and I want to make sure that I'm alive either to catch him or put something into place that catches him because I don't trust that he won't wriggle out of it if I'm gone and we haven't all agreed to a 1 v. 1. People should re-read my posts about him, and read his subsequent posts if you aren't convinced.
@Niv - no on fulcrum. Absolutely don't want to be dealing with the 1 v. 1 last and want to pursue Gentrip first. If no one gets on board with handling my 1 v. 1 proposal Today, which I really think we need to take care of first, then I'd compromise with a SNL lynch Today as he's my second strongest read right now, but then we really have to handle Gentrip/myself after that.
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And here's something that I want answered:
@fulcrum - What is your read on Gentrip right now and why?
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
Either way, we're all gonna burn
So the thing that pinned me on DCIII was that Generic-sama was completely off the table as a valid candidate until I pushed him into it. Everyone else(rightly) ignored my useless votes, but DCIII actually made a small coordinated effort to build a case out of nothing--taking the bait to hedge on a case and scumread that didn't rightfully exist until I willed it so to speak.
Thanks for the follow up though, Genericantripomandudecer, because I didn't have the care to follow through.
Either way, we're all gonna burn