Re-read Taredas' crazy post that had me spin my head and that you wrongly called "town" at the time.
Compare DCIII's entry into the game to Rhand and LanguidJaguar. Any doubt I had about either of the these vanished, any town read I had was reinforced. They came in with just the requisite amount of analysis, and insecurity in their opinions that this kind of late game replacement would have you expect from townies.
DCIII is very different. He's very decisive, like he picked up a very specific mission and facts from the scum QT, and he will not deviate from this agenda. He is helped in this mission, very sadly if he's town, by Thor. I am the lynch in which he can enjoy an unflinching ally - one that might even (if town) sabotage the town's chance of getting a lynch on scum today, because it's going to be nearly impossible to achieve a lynch unless pretty much all townies are on it.
And he has Cyan has a backup lynch. Not sure what this means re: Cyan's alignment.
We were both in the people you were willing to lynch and there were two votes on Thor last you posted and he wasn't in your suspect pool and you didn't ask anyone to unvote him.
Kami - the problem with your argument is that you make the assumption that because two other players who replaced in weren't decisive that means I can't be. Townies are never decisive after reading a game? How would you know if I was willing to deviate from my "agenda?" You didn't read my argument or respond to it or question me. You snap voted me and tried to get someone else to as well.
I'm always decisive when I lay out a case and then I see what the reactions and the responses are. Your reaction was not one from a town mindset. Yours was from a "crap, he voted me let me see if I can swing a vote on him" mindset. A town mindset would be to try to understand WHY I was voting you and either convince me otherwise or show why my argument was wrong. Instead, you dodged it altogether and tried to get a third vote on me.
Also look at that language at the end, "back up lynch." Or, I think that you're both scum. Like when Rhand said he was willing to lynch any of Az, myself or you and you didn't have an issue with that or when Cyan joined you on Thor saying that he was scum with Az and you didn't have an issue with that.
With other people, they're reads. With me, it's a "back up lynch."
Thanks for asking how I caught you. I'll be happy to oblige.
Cyan is your backup lynch, in case mine fails to go through.
A real townie will hunt townies and scums. When a real townie has a solid town read on another player, they become allies in a hostile environment. A real townie hangs to their town reads. A real townie is often more certain of their town reads than they are their scum reads.
You didn't hunt townies. You waltzed in, made cases against two players, one of whom is a townie, and the other a town read of mine. I don't see you trying to find your townie colleagues in the fog. Therefore you are scum, something you already know, but I'm trying to convince others.
No, seriously, the appeal to emotion all throughout this post is terrible.
I also laughed at the part where you called mastin one of the best analysts you've ever seen, but that's tangential to the point.
Quote from "Thor665" »
@Jaguar - while we're at it. Is this another Kami reaction test?
Also, she admitted she had a wrong read between Az and Cyan - where are her reaction tests there?
Her "zomgquickguizyouhavetovote" is obviously either a reaction test (or is DGB's idea of how she'd look as town), unless you're of the opinion that DGB doesn't understand mafia or is unable to count. I'm sort of ignoring opinions premised on the idea that DGB doesn't understand mafia or is unable to count.
That said, yes, fine, I don't like that DGB is not contributing anything. That it's all "ThorisscumnahThoristownCyanisscum" which just feels like spreading the mist (or for the MtG crowd: sowing chaos and confusion).
I still don't like DCIII. I don't like voting *with* DCIII. Yet here I am.
I still don't like Azrael. I reeeeeeeeeally don't like his appeal to emotion ("God, you guys suck so bad, you're terrible people, did you know that?" <--- paraphrased quote).
I do like Rhand, and much as I hate to say it, I like Thor.
No opinion on desCoures, and ambivalent about Cyan.
You're kidding me - I did hunt townies and you still haven't read my post and I don't think you're reading most of my posts if you think I haven't tried to figure out who is town. I cased you and Cyan because I think you're scum - but that's not all I did or have done and saying so means you're either not paying attention or are just glossing past that. You're accusing me of being scum for focusing more on trying to find scum... which is the point of the game!
You had said right before I replaced in that you wanted to lynch this slot, dC, or Thor. You were voting Thor but preferred a lynch of this slot. You were also talking about how you could swing a lynch on dC.
I replace in, case you and Cyan, vote you, give my other reads. You immediately switch your vote to me and ask everyone to vote for me before you're speed lynched. That mindset is completely disconnected from how a townie would think. Firstly, a townie wouldn't try to save themselves from being mislynched in that situation by quickly getting three other townies to vote for the person who just voted them. There would be no way that just yelling that I was scum would accomplish that. Your mindset was of someone who just needed to get one vote. A townie in that situation would be more focused on keeping another vote from getting on them (because you'd have to think that I was scum in that scenario) and would then try to be convincing about why the person voting them was scum because you'd know that it would require convincing more people than that to swing the lynch.
You didn't do any of that. You didn't even read my post. The way to catch someone who is making a case you think is bogus is to READ the case that the person made on you. Also, there's no inquisitive mindset from you on whether or not I believed my case on you or if it could be coming from town. You went from being suspicious of my slot, dC, and Thor to thinking I was 100% scum and trying to rile everyone up to speed lynch me and the ONLY difference was that I had cased and voted you... but you had no idea what I'd said in the case! That's not how a townie would think in that scenario. Your mindset was that of trying to get another vote on me and string me up quickly before too much more discussion ensued - which you would have known wouldn't have been possible if you had to rely on townies to do it.
Now you're trying to appear to have a case on me and to have "caught" me and to try to convince others, but if you were trying to convince others with a case, you would have been more inquisitive about what I said to begin with and would have approached it that way at the time rather than just panic reacting. You're so busted!
That last, particularly, is such an utter obvious lie that anyone paying attention would realize it to be untrue. The people that have been replaced are Taredas, ced, and mastin. The first was on record as being firmly against you and firmly for me as town, and would be voting you as long as he wasn't one of your team white knighting me. The second was 'unsure' about you, but would probably have been right on you after Nacho flipped town, and in any case never made the slightest indication he'd vote me. The only one that description might fit would have been mastin, and that doesn't change the fact that the replacement situation more than likely removed two players that would have been voting you, not me. And if you're scummy enough for their replacements to instantly spot... well, that's very much your own fault.
Ced's final post of the day stated that he was changing his mind about me, and Mastin both read me as town and you as scum. I can't find the other post I was thinking of, so maybe it came from someone else.
You keep trying to argue I'm not paying attention to the game, but fail to even look up the posts in question. Meanwhile, you're also doing your best to be a hypocrite (you never did cite those posts where I supposedly called Nacho obvtown days 1-2 - I wonder why not?). But I guess it's definitely more fun to just scream and call people liars than to fight with honor or maybe, I don't know, rely on actual evidence?
I'm seriously alarmed at your shade, Mr. Pot.
I mean, seriously. That entire first line? It doesn't change a damned thing about what I said - that Taredas was firmly set on me-town and you-scum, and that ced, while 'unsure' about you day 2, still never indicated he would vote me; therefore that snide dig about the replacement situation 'having been kind to me' is, as I said, utter rot. And that last bolded bit is especially rich, given the accusation that you level at me the very next line about 'failing to look up the posts in question'.
And also, seriously, what is this, a 10-year old screaming competition? The irony is palpable in accusing me of 'screaming and calling people liars' while saying I'm 'not fighting with honour'. I'd roll my eyes, but this doesn't even deserve that much energy.
------------------
As to recent events... that reaction from KoL is all kinds of ick. It's OMGUS at LyLo with extra histronics on the side. I can very easily see KoL as scum now, especially given how this -
Thanks for asking how I caught you. I'll be happy to oblige.
Cyan is your backup lynch, in case mine fails to go through.
A real townie will hunt townies and scums. When a real townie has a solid town read on another player, they become allies in a hostile environment. A real townie hangs to their town reads. A real townie is often more certain of their town reads than they are their scum reads.
You didn't hunt townies. You waltzed in, made cases against two players, one of whom is a townie, and the other a town read of mine. I don't see you trying to find your townie colleagues in the fog. Therefore you are scum, something you already know, but I'm trying to convince others.
- is blatant rubbish. At best, it's a particular methodology; and it's definitely not one to which I subscribe. I'm always looking for scum, partially because it's all too easy to get caught up in an early town read and never change your mind even when you really should. (At least if you're wrong with a scum read, you'll find that out sooner rather than later.) At worst, it's a total misrepresentation.
The thing is, though, DCIII... I've read through your case, and it's fairly convincing. The part I'm having trouble wrapping my head around is that it's predicated on Azrael being town.
Of the points you raise, I can in fact see the first two paragraphs as a half-hearted attempt to help blunt the momentum on a scumbuddy. The third paragraph, though, I'll agree does appear to point towards Az=town if KoL=scum.
...mm.
A few questions, DCIII.
1. If Kami and Cyan are scum, and Azrael is town, then why has Kami been persisting in hard-reading Azrael as town today, in the face of large amounts of opposition? (Or, alternatively, why has Cyan been just as adamantly for me=town, Azrael=scum today?) Given that a mislynch today probably means we lose, why would they (and whoever their last member is) not take a more unified stance today, whether on me or Azrael?
2. What do you think of Azrael's comments on KoL today, anyway? He's been hard-reading her as town for much of today as well. And while I do like the first part of #1312 and #1323 taking the null hypothesis that KoL is scum, #1314 reads like an attempt to say 'she'd have to be really really good scum to do that'.
3. Your case appears to be predicated entirely on day 1? Have you read day 2?
As for Cyan... you do make a few good points there. I think I have to look over Cyan again. It would fit my supposition that one of the people firmly on my side was scum white-knighting me. Mmh.
No, no, no, no - this is exactly what I just said that Cyan did to Thor, she's just trying to scream and make it stick. Kami is scum and flailing. Mull it over if you need to but DO NOT put another vote on me or we will lose.
Kami/Cyan/Rhand
Az, LJ, and dC - read my case and give me your thoughts.
Why that bolded line?
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
I really like how my entire game record of towniness is being wiped out because I KNOW we're heading to a third townie lynch in a row and a town loss, and I'm frazzled.
Re-read Taredas' crazy post that had me spin my head and that you wrongly called "town" at the time.
Compare DCIII's entry into the game to Rhand and LanguidJaguar. Any doubt I had about either of the these vanished, any town read I had was reinforced. They came in with just the requisite amount of analysis, and insecurity in their opinions that this kind of late game replacement would have you expect from townies.
DCIII is very different. He's very decisive, like he picked up a very specific mission and facts from the scum QT, and he will not deviate from this agenda. He is helped in this mission, very sadly if he's town, by Thor. I am the lynch in which he can enjoy an unflinching ally - one that might even (if town) sabotage the town's chance of getting a lynch on scum today, because it's going to be nearly impossible to achieve a lynch unless pretty much all townies are on it.
And he has Cyan has a backup lynch. Not sure what this means re: Cyan's alignment.
That doesn't really answer my question. Why would we have needed to actually vote for him immediately to avoid a game loss?
Because you already are seeing the scum massaging their reads against me to be able to take me to the hammer.
You didn't see that happening with any of the other lynch candidates, did you? Just the fact that after his vote on me the tide is turning against me should pretty much seal the deal that DCIII is scum.
Anyway. It's too late. We have too many scum, and Thor is playing for the scum regardless of his alignment. The town had no chance from the beginning of this day. It would have taken a miracle.
Because you already are seeing the scum massaging their reads against me to be able to take me to the hammer.
You didn't see that happening with any of the other lynch candidates, did you? Just the fact that after his vote on me the tide is turning against me should pretty much seal the deal that DCIII is scum.
Anyway. It's too late. We have too many scum, and Thor is playing for the scum regardless of his alignment. The town had no chance from the beginning of this day. It would have taken a miracle.
That still doesn't make sense. There weren't enough votes on you for the scum to be able to finish you. The only reason to cause some kind of stampede into voting DCIII was to instigate a scum rush-lynch, not to defend against it. I'm not buying it. I've been wrong reading women on tone before, and I guess I must have been again.
Kami of Lunacy (5): Thor665, DCIII, LanguidJaguar, Cyan, Azrael
Thor665 (1): Kami of Lunacy
Azrael (1): Rhand
Abstain (1): desCoures
That‘s a lynch!
***
The crowd had surrounded Silhouette. You knew it couldn‘t be her. I just didn‘t make any sense. Of course, you had been her only defender. And that cast suspicion on you as well. Kami of Lunacy was..
Ursula Zandt aka Silhouette - Vanilla Town
You needed more time. You needed to figure out a way to save Ursula before the clock hit…
“It is midnight.” bellowed Concerned Citizen.
“Damn it,” you thought.
Three of the group pointed their fingers at Ursula and Concerned Citizen summarily shackled her. You noticed the three! The three pointing the fingers! They were…
Cyan, or as you knew him:
Walter Kovacs aka Rorschach - Mafia Tracker
DCIII, or as you knew him:
Nelson Gardner aka Captain Metropolis - Mafia Goon
And Azrael, as you knew her:
Sally Jupiter aka The Original Silk Spectre - Mafia Goon
You saw Sally reach for something in her back and move forward to LanguidJaguar, or as you knew him:
Byron Lewis aka Mothman - Vanilla Town
Sally quickly pulled out a knife and slit the throat of Mothman. He grasped for his bleeding jugular as he fell to the ground. You tried to quickly grab the blade, but a swift kick to the ribs knocked you down. You hit your head against the coffee table and saw stars. As you reopened them, you see Captain Metropolis and Rorschach holding back desCoures. desCoures was…
William Brady aka Dollar Bill - Vanilla Town
Sally took out the blade and stabbed Brady in the stomach three times. He slumped over and fell to the ground.
Thor665 looked alarm and tried to escape. But he was grabbed by Rorschach and his neck was snapped cleanly. He fell face first on the pile with a thud. Thor665 was…
Rolf Muller [?] aka Hooded Justice - Vanilla Town
“Why did you do this?” you shout at them. You were Rhand…
Hollis Mason aka The Original Nite Owl - Vanilla Town
“We each had our reasons. I wanted respect,” said Sally.
“I wanted to show the people that they didn’t need us,” said Captain Metropolis.
“And I just plain like to kill,” said Rorschach.
You nodded. You knew your time was short. You turned to Concerned Citizen to ask your final question before you perished.
“And why did you let them win?”
Concerned Citizen removed his hood. It was…Doctor Manhattan? This made no sense…
“I didn’t want the violence to spread to the innocents. I wanted this all to be sorted out in this mansion so I teleported you here to protect them. I have been manipulated in the past, so I had to create a separate part of me to make sure I was not a traitor as well. But know they have been revealed and now they have won. I am sorry it had to end this way, Mason. But your failure is your own.”
With that Concerned Citizen vanished with Silhouette while the three traitors stood over you.
“Make it quick,” you said.
A quick jab. A sudden sting of pain. Then darkness. And the sound of that damn ticking clock.
***
Kami of Lunacy has been lynched. Her Role PM is as follows…
Player: Kami of Lunacy
Ursula Zandt aka Silhouette - Vanilla Town
You have a specific fight in this messed up world: against the evildoers of child trafficking. Being a former victim of this heinous act, you see no reason why the government would not allow you to continue your fight against it. But they have. And now you have to fight to save your life. You have no abilities.
Win Condition: You win when all the mafia have been eliminated.
Without any protective roles, the town has been endgamed. They were…
Rhand
Hollis Mason aka The Original Nite Owl - Vanilla Town
You were the “boy scout” of the Minutemen and your deeds were long and wide: fighting criminals on the streets of New York to fighting Axis villains in the midst of a World War. You inspired a great many of the new age vigilantes and have even written a book detailing your exploits. While you are retired now, many of the modern era vigilantes still come to you for advice. You have no abilities.
Win Condition: You win when all the mafia have been eliminated.
Thor665
Rolf Muller [?] aka Hooded Justice - Vanilla Town
You were the original and first masked vigilante that inspired the rest of the masked vigilantes here. While your identity is unknown, your pedigree and importance to the vigilante movement are bar none. You have no abilities.
Win Condition: You win when all the mafia have been eliminated.
desCoures
William Brady aka Dollar Bill - Vanilla Town
You were a college athlete for Kansas City when you received the strangest request - don the mask and cape for a series of New York City banks and become their official vigilante to end bank crime in the banks. Everything about your persona, down to the costume, is to reflect this single-minded and capitalistic purpose. You have no abilities.
Win Condition: You win when all the mafia have been eliminated.
LanguidJaguar
Byron Lewis aka Mothman - Vanilla Town
Once your thirst for adventure was piqued by the start of the vigilante movement, you used your immense wealth to design a suit that would allow you to fly and fight crime. However over the years the wear and tear on your body was so great that you developed chronic pain that only drugs and alcohol would quell. What the [name] would want with an old man is none of your concern - your will to fight and indomitable courage still exist inside you. You have no abilities.
Win Condition: You win when all the mafia have been eliminated.
After the night kill, the Scum Team will tie the vote. Thus, they have fulfilled their win condition. They were…
Cyan
Walter Kovacs aka Rorschach - Mafia Tracker
Rorschach may not have powers, but that doesn’t mean he’s not dangerous. A savagely smart, cold-blooded hunter Rorschach can figure out a way out of any situation or figure out a way to put you in whatever situation he pleases. But what’s a predator supposed to do when he is told that he’s not allowed to prey?
Rorschach has finally found a use for his mad talents: as the head of the V.A.S.T. His abilities of the hunt are especially useful in noticing what another vigilante has done the night before. Once per night, you may track a fellow vigilante to determine where they went and who they targeted that night. You also have access to the night kill: once per night you or a member of your team may send a name to Concerned Citizen. The next morning that member will die a gruesome death. You may not use the track ability and the night kill ability in the same night unless you are the last scum alive.
Win Condition: You win when the Mafia equal or outnumber the Town.
Sally Jupiter aka The Original Silk Spectre - Mafia Goon
You used to be a burlesque dancer but you donned the mask and cape to fight crime alongside the Minutemen. While your friends went on to do marvelous things and get enormous accolades, you wound up dark, depressed, and lonely. When Nixon approached you to be a member of V.A.S.T. you finally saw it as a way to show up those jerks that took the limelight from you and never acknowledged how important you were for female (and male) vigilantes everywhere. Half grudge, half mission you know what your job is: eradicate the remaining vigilantes on behalf of a noble leader. You have access to the night kill: once per night you or a member of your team may send a name to Concerned Citizen. The next morning that member will die a gruesome death.
Win Condition: You win when the Mafia equal or outnumber the Town.
Nelson Gardner aka Captain Metropolis - Mafia Goon
As a child you were sickly but soon grew past it to become a member of the armed services. When you returned from duty, you were appalled at the crime of the inner city and set off to fight against the evils that plagued these areas. But you feel as if the vigilantes are making it even worse. The citizens of the city are relaying on the vigilantes to take care of their own problems and are not learning how to defend or stand up for themselves. You joined V.A.S.T. to eradicate the vigilantes and teach the citizens of towns everywhere how to fight for their own rights. You have access to the night kill: once per night you or a member of your team may send a name to Concerned Citizen. The next morning that member will die a gruesome death.
Win Condition: You win when the Mafia equal or outnumber the Town.
Thanks for letting me be part of this. Proph did most of the work, I basically wrote the flavor here. It was a lot of fun. I wanted to base a game off of Watchmen for a while.
And with that I shall announce my retirement from Mafia as a player and as a mod. Things in life have just gotten hectic and if my involvement in this game is any indicator, I don't think I will be at a level of participation that I'd be happy with in the future.
I had a fun time here in this subforum and I had a wonderful time watching and writing for this game!
Godspeed everyone. Good games. And good luck in the future.
Had 2/3 of the scum, had even called Thor/DGB correctly, but got flipflopped when I felt DGB was just buddying up to me while not mentioning the things I was saying about her, and then found my counterevidence to her "mod replace me" bit.
Don't think the game would've ever moved beyond the Thor/DGB show, so probably better to end now than later.
I would say that Taredas replacing out actually worked to our benefit, because he never had to explain why he 'popcorned' to me in the mass-claim. Especially not after Kpaca also had to be immediately replaced as well. That whole thing just fell by the wayside.
Ultimately, I really couldn't believe that Thor and KOL kept at each other for literally the entire game. I was sure that eventually they would both figure out that both were town(because that is how this situations usually go).
I actually thought he was town but it was really hard for me to reconcile his game-long persecution of me, and complete lack of looking at any other player, with a town agenda.
Say what you will... I looked at other players plenty.
What's sad is that you placed a vote that put me in hammering range and you didn't stick around to check the vote movements.
I did stick around, last night, this morning, and noon. But when you didn't mention my vote, at all, I felt like you didn't care about it, so I stopped.
Well, I did read the game... but, yeah, I pretty much replaced into an ideal situation as no one had Az and Cyan together. The decision was just whether or not to bus Az and thought it better just to try to win today. You'd probably always think I'm scum, though, Kami as that's how I play as town, too.
Cyan and Az as co MVPs? impressive that Az staved off a lynch with literally every MTGS played voting him at one point, including both teammates.
Kami - why didn't you read my case? I really do feel like thats the best way to try to catch someone.
@Mod - thanks for inviting me, was fun. If we do any more I'd like to participate.
I actually thought he was town but it was really hard for me to reconcile his game-long persecution of me, and complete lack of looking at any other player, with a town agenda.
Say what you will... I looked at other players plenty.
Yeah that was mostly directed at Thor, whom I would argue is largely responsible for this loss.
What's sad is that you placed a vote that put me in hammering range and you didn't stick around to check the vote movements.
I did stick around, last night, this morning, and noon. But when you didn't mention my vote, at all, I felt like you didn't care about it, so I stopped.
I was very very confused by your vote, that I interpreted as a possible scum move from a town read. I just - I just didn't know what to think.
Kami - why didn't you read my case? I really do feel like thats the best way to try to catch someone.
I knew you were scum and I knew you'd fake-convince your buddies no matter what I said. After LanguidJaguar's fateful vote, there was nothing I could do. And I knew that Thor wouldn't budge, so that put me in the hole quite a bit.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
First off, I'd like to say that there were a number of times where I wrote things along the line of my being frustrated with the game, with the site, or with people in the game, or with the replacement situation - and I want to make absolutely clear that at no point was any of that drivel genuine. I know there was a lot of frustration in the air this game, but I enjoyed all the efforts that everyone put into it, and it was very much a pleasure to play with multiple teammates who were all very excited and serious about working together and coordinating. Even though I was pretty sure almost every day of the game, that that was the day the town was finally going to drum up that last vote or two they would need in combination with our two mafia bus votes to finally pick me off.
I was seriously spooked when both my mafia buddies committed so deeply to the D1 bus, and that definitely showed in my play, I think, but it turned out better in the end than we had any right to expect. My scum game has always been shaky, and it was shaky here too, but I've never connived and fought to stay alive quite so hard as I did these past three game days.
The scum replacement... well that's much easier because they know where they're going without reading the game, as shown by DCIII's entry into it.
I actually give full marks to DC3 for his time here, brief though it was, and even though you immediately pegged him. I think if we hadn't had a player come in with a firm grip from rereading on the situation, and an intelligent plan on how best to proceed to divert attention from me onto another target, this game day would likely have ended with my lynch and gone on to multiple additional days that the rest of the team might have been harder pressed to survive. He was really critical in bringing this home for us, and I'm very glad he replaced in.
I was sooooo deathly scared of you starting halfway through D1 until I finally convinced the scum to pick you off. I knew that I couldn't fool your instincts for long, and that you'd be the death of me unless we took you out first.
And I honestly don't think of you as an easy target, ever. I don't think we have anyone on the site who's as active and prolific a player as you.
@Rhand - My argument about power roles that you wondered whether was genuine, was genuine.
Had a lot of fun, Cyan's distancing was incredible, the town replacements felt really hard to deal with as we were counting on some more predicable votes and more friendly votes, I hope I didn't drive DC too crazy, and mad props to everyone who stuck with us through all the replacements to finish out the game. It's been a pleasure, and I look forward to future cross-town games on MS, hopefully where I get to play town for a change.
Compare DCIII's entry into the game to Rhand and LanguidJaguar. Any doubt I had about either of the these vanished, any town read I had was reinforced. They came in with just the requisite amount of analysis, and insecurity in their opinions that this kind of late game replacement would have you expect from townies.
DCIII is very different. He's very decisive, like he picked up a very specific mission and facts from the scum QT, and he will not deviate from this agenda. He is helped in this mission, very sadly if he's town, by Thor. I am the lynch in which he can enjoy an unflinching ally - one that might even (if town) sabotage the town's chance of getting a lynch on scum today, because it's going to be nearly impossible to achieve a lynch unless pretty much all townies are on it.
And he has Cyan has a backup lynch. Not sure what this means re: Cyan's alignment.
We were both in the people you were willing to lynch and there were two votes on Thor last you posted and he wasn't in your suspect pool and you didn't ask anyone to unvote him.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kami - the problem with your argument is that you make the assumption that because two other players who replaced in weren't decisive that means I can't be. Townies are never decisive after reading a game? How would you know if I was willing to deviate from my "agenda?" You didn't read my argument or respond to it or question me. You snap voted me and tried to get someone else to as well.
I'm always decisive when I lay out a case and then I see what the reactions and the responses are. Your reaction was not one from a town mindset. Yours was from a "crap, he voted me let me see if I can swing a vote on him" mindset. A town mindset would be to try to understand WHY I was voting you and either convince me otherwise or show why my argument was wrong. Instead, you dodged it altogether and tried to get a third vote on me.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
With other people, they're reads. With me, it's a "back up lynch."
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
Cyan is your backup lynch, in case mine fails to go through.
A real townie will hunt townies and scums. When a real townie has a solid town read on another player, they become allies in a hostile environment. A real townie hangs to their town reads. A real townie is often more certain of their town reads than they are their scum reads.
You didn't hunt townies. You waltzed in, made cases against two players, one of whom is a townie, and the other a town read of mine. I don't see you trying to find your townie colleagues in the fog. Therefore you are scum, something you already know, but I'm trying to convince others.
No.
Nope!
I skimmed a bunch of D1!
No, seriously, the appeal to emotion all throughout this post is terrible.
I also laughed at the part where you called mastin one of the best analysts you've ever seen, but that's tangential to the point.
Her "zomgquickguizyouhavetovote" is obviously either a reaction test (or is DGB's idea of how she'd look as town), unless you're of the opinion that DGB doesn't understand mafia or is unable to count. I'm
sort ofignoring opinions premised on the idea that DGB doesn't understand mafia or is unable to count.That said, yes, fine, I don't like that DGB is not contributing anything. That it's all "ThorisscumnahThoristownCyanisscum" which just feels like spreading the mist (or for the MtG crowd: sowing chaos and confusion).
Also, unrelatedly, while I was reviewing Gay Mafia II for how DGB was playing as the SK there, I stumbled across DGB asking the mod to replace her as an SK
Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Unvote DCIII
Vote Kami of Lunacy
I still don't like DCIII. I don't like voting *with* DCIII. Yet here I am.
I still don't like Azrael. I reeeeeeeeeally don't like his appeal to emotion ("God, you guys suck so bad, you're terrible people, did you know that?" <--- paraphrased quote).
I do like Rhand, and much as I hate to say it, I like Thor.
No opinion on desCoures, and ambivalent about Cyan.
You had said right before I replaced in that you wanted to lynch this slot, dC, or Thor. You were voting Thor but preferred a lynch of this slot. You were also talking about how you could swing a lynch on dC.
I replace in, case you and Cyan, vote you, give my other reads. You immediately switch your vote to me and ask everyone to vote for me before you're speed lynched. That mindset is completely disconnected from how a townie would think. Firstly, a townie wouldn't try to save themselves from being mislynched in that situation by quickly getting three other townies to vote for the person who just voted them. There would be no way that just yelling that I was scum would accomplish that. Your mindset was of someone who just needed to get one vote. A townie in that situation would be more focused on keeping another vote from getting on them (because you'd have to think that I was scum in that scenario) and would then try to be convincing about why the person voting them was scum because you'd know that it would require convincing more people than that to swing the lynch.
You didn't do any of that. You didn't even read my post. The way to catch someone who is making a case you think is bogus is to READ the case that the person made on you. Also, there's no inquisitive mindset from you on whether or not I believed my case on you or if it could be coming from town. You went from being suspicious of my slot, dC, and Thor to thinking I was 100% scum and trying to rile everyone up to speed lynch me and the ONLY difference was that I had cased and voted you... but you had no idea what I'd said in the case! That's not how a townie would think in that scenario. Your mindset was that of trying to get another vote on me and string me up quickly before too much more discussion ensued - which you would have known wouldn't have been possible if you had to rely on townies to do it.
Now you're trying to appear to have a case on me and to have "caught" me and to try to convince others, but if you were trying to convince others with a case, you would have been more inquisitive about what I said to begin with and would have approached it that way at the time rather than just panic reacting. You're so busted!
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
First...
@Azrael
I'm seriously alarmed at your shade, Mr. Pot.
I mean, seriously. That entire first line? It doesn't change a damned thing about what I said - that Taredas was firmly set on me-town and you-scum, and that ced, while 'unsure' about you day 2, still never indicated he would vote me; therefore that snide dig about the replacement situation 'having been kind to me' is, as I said, utter rot. And that last bolded bit is especially rich, given the accusation that you level at me the very next line about 'failing to look up the posts in question'.
And also, seriously, what is this, a 10-year old screaming competition? The irony is palpable in accusing me of 'screaming and calling people liars' while saying I'm 'not fighting with honour'. I'd roll my eyes, but this doesn't even deserve that much energy.
------------------
As to recent events... that reaction from KoL is all kinds of ick. It's OMGUS at LyLo with extra histronics on the side. I can very easily see KoL as scum now, especially given how this -
- is blatant rubbish. At best, it's a particular methodology; and it's definitely not one to which I subscribe. I'm always looking for scum, partially because it's all too easy to get caught up in an early town read and never change your mind even when you really should. (At least if you're wrong with a scum read, you'll find that out sooner rather than later.) At worst, it's a total misrepresentation.
The thing is, though, DCIII... I've read through your case, and it's fairly convincing. The part I'm having trouble wrapping my head around is that it's predicated on Azrael being town.
Of the points you raise, I can in fact see the first two paragraphs as a half-hearted attempt to help blunt the momentum on a scumbuddy. The third paragraph, though, I'll agree does appear to point towards Az=town if KoL=scum.
...mm.
A few questions, DCIII.
1. If Kami and Cyan are scum, and Azrael is town, then why has Kami been persisting in hard-reading Azrael as town today, in the face of large amounts of opposition? (Or, alternatively, why has Cyan been just as adamantly for me=town, Azrael=scum today?) Given that a mislynch today probably means we lose, why would they (and whoever their last member is) not take a more unified stance today, whether on me or Azrael?
2. What do you think of Azrael's comments on KoL today, anyway? He's been hard-reading her as town for much of today as well. And while I do like the first part of #1312 and #1323 taking the null hypothesis that KoL is scum, #1314 reads like an attempt to say 'she'd have to be really really good scum to do that'.
3. Your case appears to be predicated entirely on day 1? Have you read day 2?
As for Cyan... you do make a few good points there. I think I have to look over Cyan again. It would fit my supposition that one of the people firmly on my side was scum white-knighting me. Mmh.
...also, one more thing.
Why that bolded line?
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Buddying, fearmongering... This doesn't look town at all.
And "knowing" my alignment?
I am warming to this lynch.
Thor, -if you're town- this loss is on you.
GG scum.
Tammy you were right leaving ship, I should have followed you.
That doesn't really answer my question. Why would we have needed to actually vote for him immediately to avoid a game loss?
You didn't see that happening with any of the other lynch candidates, did you? Just the fact that after his vote on me the tide is turning against me should pretty much seal the deal that DCIII is scum.
Anyway. It's too late. We have too many scum, and Thor is playing for the scum regardless of his alignment. The town had no chance from the beginning of this day. It would have taken a miracle.
I never will play with Thor again.
I hate you Thor I really do.
That still doesn't make sense. There weren't enough votes on you for the scum to be able to finish you. The only reason to cause some kind of stampede into voting DCIII was to instigate a scum rush-lynch, not to defend against it. I'm not buying it. I've been wrong reading women on tone before, and I guess I must have been again.
Vote Kami of Lunacy.
Your turnaround on me is very un-natural.
dC is town. If dC was your buddy he would have voted me.
Anyway - good game Azrael, you fooled me the whole time.
Ah crap that was the other scum. I missed it.
I get no cigar for my timing though, LOL.
Good job guys
You guys can stop pretending you're town now and help me dry my tears.
Kami of Lunacy (5): Thor665, DCIII, LanguidJaguar, Cyan, Azrael
Thor665 (1): Kami of Lunacy
Azrael (1): Rhand
Abstain (1): desCoures
That‘s a lynch!
***
The crowd had surrounded Silhouette. You knew it couldn‘t be her. I just didn‘t make any sense. Of course, you had been her only defender. And that cast suspicion on you as well. Kami of Lunacy was..
You needed more time. You needed to figure out a way to save Ursula before the clock hit…
“It is midnight.” bellowed Concerned Citizen.
“Damn it,” you thought.
Three of the group pointed their fingers at Ursula and Concerned Citizen summarily shackled her. You noticed the three! The three pointing the fingers! They were…
Cyan, or as you knew him:
DCIII, or as you knew him:
And Azrael, as you knew her:
You saw Sally reach for something in her back and move forward to LanguidJaguar, or as you knew him:
Sally quickly pulled out a knife and slit the throat of Mothman. He grasped for his bleeding jugular as he fell to the ground. You tried to quickly grab the blade, but a swift kick to the ribs knocked you down. You hit your head against the coffee table and saw stars. As you reopened them, you see Captain Metropolis and Rorschach holding back desCoures. desCoures was…
Sally took out the blade and stabbed Brady in the stomach three times. He slumped over and fell to the ground.
Thor665 looked alarm and tried to escape. But he was grabbed by Rorschach and his neck was snapped cleanly. He fell face first on the pile with a thud. Thor665 was…
“Why did you do this?” you shout at them. You were Rhand…
“We each had our reasons. I wanted respect,” said Sally.
“I wanted to show the people that they didn’t need us,” said Captain Metropolis.
“And I just plain like to kill,” said Rorschach.
You nodded. You knew your time was short. You turned to Concerned Citizen to ask your final question before you perished.
“And why did you let them win?”
Concerned Citizen removed his hood. It was…Doctor Manhattan? This made no sense…
“I didn’t want the violence to spread to the innocents. I wanted this all to be sorted out in this mansion so I teleported you here to protect them. I have been manipulated in the past, so I had to create a separate part of me to make sure I was not a traitor as well. But know they have been revealed and now they have won. I am sorry it had to end this way, Mason. But your failure is your own.”
With that Concerned Citizen vanished with Silhouette while the three traitors stood over you.
“Make it quick,” you said.
A quick jab. A sudden sting of pain. Then darkness. And the sound of that damn ticking clock.
***
Kami of Lunacy has been lynched. Her Role PM is as follows…
Without any protective roles, the town has been endgamed. They were…
Rhand
Thor665
desCoures
LanguidJaguar
After the night kill, the Scum Team will tie the vote. Thus, they have fulfilled their win condition. They were…
Cyan
Azrael
DCIII
***
The game is over! The scum have won in a flawless victory! Thank you for playing. You may discuss the game now.
Spectator Chat: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/yAMYeNe2hdCd
Mafia Chat: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/K5BZpqwSx8BDz
Neighbor Chat: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/ddUeMqP5YV2
Thanks for letting me be part of this. Proph did most of the work, I basically wrote the flavor here. It was a lot of fun. I wanted to base a game off of Watchmen for a while.
And with that I shall announce my retirement from Mafia as a player and as a mod. Things in life have just gotten hectic and if my involvement in this game is any indicator, I don't think I will be at a level of participation that I'd be happy with in the future.
I had a fun time here in this subforum and I had a wonderful time watching and writing for this game!
Godspeed everyone. Good games. And good luck in the future.
Had 2/3 of the scum, had even called Thor/DGB correctly, but got flipflopped when I felt DGB was just buddying up to me while not mentioning the things I was saying about her, and then found my counterevidence to her "mod replace me" bit.
Don't think the game would've ever moved beyond the Thor/DGB show, so probably better to end now than later.
The scum replacement... well that's much easier because they know where they're going without reading the game, as shown by DCIII's entry into it.
Ultimately, I really couldn't believe that Thor and KOL kept at each other for literally the entire game. I was sure that eventually they would both figure out that both were town(because that is how this situations usually go).
Say what you will... I looked at other players plenty.
I did stick around, last night, this morning, and noon. But when you didn't mention my vote, at all, I felt like you didn't care about it, so I stopped.
Cyan and Az as co MVPs? impressive that Az staved off a lynch with literally every MTGS played voting him at one point, including both teammates.
Kami - why didn't you read my case? I really do feel like thats the best way to try to catch someone.
@Mod - thanks for inviting me, was fun. If we do any more I'd like to participate.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
Yeah that was mostly directed at Thor, whom I would argue is largely responsible for this loss.
Game's over, no need for the petty divisiveness. We (the town) lost as a group.
I was very very confused by your vote, that I interpreted as a possible scum move from a town read. I just - I just didn't know what to think.
I knew you were scum and I knew you'd fake-convince your buddies no matter what I said. After LanguidJaguar's fateful vote, there was nothing I could do. And I knew that Thor wouldn't budge, so that put me in the hole quite a bit.
I knew we should've lynched Az.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I was seriously spooked when both my mafia buddies committed so deeply to the D1 bus, and that definitely showed in my play, I think, but it turned out better in the end than we had any right to expect. My scum game has always been shaky, and it was shaky here too, but I've never connived and fought to stay alive quite so hard as I did these past three game days.
I actually give full marks to DC3 for his time here, brief though it was, and even though you immediately pegged him. I think if we hadn't had a player come in with a firm grip from rereading on the situation, and an intelligent plan on how best to proceed to divert attention from me onto another target, this game day would likely have ended with my lynch and gone on to multiple additional days that the rest of the team might have been harder pressed to survive. He was really critical in bringing this home for us, and I'm very glad he replaced in.
I was sooooo deathly scared of you starting halfway through D1 until I finally convinced the scum to pick you off. I knew that I couldn't fool your instincts for long, and that you'd be the death of me unless we took you out first.
And I honestly don't think of you as an easy target, ever. I don't think we have anyone on the site who's as active and prolific a player as you.
@Rhand - My argument about power roles that you wondered whether was genuine, was genuine.
Had a lot of fun, Cyan's distancing was incredible, the town replacements felt really hard to deal with as we were counting on some more predicable votes and more friendly votes, I hope I didn't drive DC too crazy, and mad props to everyone who stuck with us through all the replacements to finish out the game. It's been a pleasure, and I look forward to future cross-town games on MS, hopefully where I get to play town for a change.