Like, as far as the new evidence thing - I would note that my core question 'why did you lie, and why did you take my negative reaction to the lie as a scumtell?' was, to even this moment of the game - was never answered by you. You literally just wouldn't respond to that - that felt scummy to me. Town should have had a reasoning to their lie purpose, and certainly should have been able to justify why they found someone scummy for reacting negatively to a lie.
Just as a head's up, I just edited the above post. Am I blind, or did it not make an alert note about it?
Or maybe we turned off that system after the game ended?
That's an issue as far as Mafia games on this board goes.
Just as a head's up, I just edited the above post. Am I blind, or did it not make an alert note about it?
Or maybe we turned off that system after the game ended?
That's an issue as far as Mafia games on this board goes.
I've had that happen a few times as well. I think it is because no one else had seen the page when you edited.
But I'm not sure.
You keep forgetting that we played this game without an iso function... clearly that effects every MS'er play. I had to play very much "in the moment" and I didn't look back the way I usually do.
I never answered your question - because it was such obvious hyperbole that I thought your persistence about something this painfully evident meant that you were scum. I tend not to argue with scum. That's my unspoken motto. Don't argue with scum. It was also my Achilles' heel with DCIII. Plus I knew there was no argument (especially: "it was hyperbole!") that would convince you. Someone else chimed in and called it hyperbole on my behalf (Azrael of all people, if memory serves). Be honest. Would you have let go if I told you it was hyperbole? I would wager that you wouldn't have budged an inch.
I did bring up your tunneling issues, I was hoping to get help in reading other players from you, bounce back opinions with you... it's a good thing to do regardless of how you feel about a player's alignment. I got nothing from you. You were always right back to that one post that defined the game for you.
There are some players that WIFOM themselves "yes s/he looks town but COULD BE FAKING!!!!" - when in fact that level of emotion is quite hard to fake. My assumption is that when people fake, there is a lot less effort. Tammy was writing a lot of words for someone that's faking. She could write one post and lurk. But no. So she was NOT faking. Quantity is important here. Everything CAN be faked. But faking takes more effort and tires or bores the faker faster than the sincere person.
If you create reactions, and your judgment is going to be marred by "reactions are easy to fake" then don't bother creating reactions, it's not your thing. You just upset people for no game pay off - you tend not to know when/how to back down, when you crossed that line when it becomes personal because it's not longer about reading people's alignment... when you decided it could all be faked anyway. When you call someone for faking emotions, and 6 players chime in that Tammy is totes town for said emotions... consider that your skills at reading emotions are not good, and defer to the other players... back away, and concentrate on what you do best, which is picking up logical fallacies, and try to examine all players evenly and fairly for this.
I never answered your question - because it was such obvious hyperbole that I thought your persistence about something this painfully evident meant that you were scum.
1. Why, in a different game, did you choose to address it but not this time?
2. Why didn't you address it during the period you claimed to be town reading me, as a means of helping de-tunnel the tunneled town?
Would telling you it was hyperbole have made you de-tunnel? Because someone else did say it. It was obvious to them.
Would you have thought me to be town suddenly, if I said it was hyperbole? Like whoa everybody, nobody lynch Kami ever she's obv town hyperboling all over me? Yay Thor/Kami townblock? You don't know that because you never paid any attention to all my other posts. Maybe they were bleeding town, maybe they were oozing scum. You had no idea, because you totally ignored all my other input outside of that one post.
Do people behave the same when you (1) annoy them and they're trying to ignore you or (2) are having positive interactions with you? Is that something you'd be willing to take into consideration when judging people's alignments based on the interactions you have with them?
When other players told you that you were tunneling, did you de-tunnel?
When other players told you it was obvious hyperbole, did you de-tunnel?
When I told you that you were tunneling, did you de-tunnel?
When other players told you that your beef with me was borne of wounded pride and a personal slight, and didn't care one bit about it, did you de-tunnel?
When you were never nightkilled, did it occur to you that your tunnel might have been helpful to the scum, and did you de-tunnel?
There was nothing, nothing to get you out of that tunnel over a single post on page 2, that lasted an entire game.
As a townie, did you think that your tunnel could look town to me?
As a townie, did you think I have left you alive had I been scum? Never mind the WIFOM; do you think I would have left you alive?
Would telling you it was hyperbole have made you de-tunnel? Because someone else did say it. It was obvious to them.
Would you have thought me to be town suddenly, if I said it was hyperbole? Like whoa everybody, nobody lynch Kami ever she's obv town hyperboling all over me? Yay Thor/Kami townblock? You don't know that because you never paid any attention to all my other posts. Maybe they were bleeding town, maybe they were oozing scum. You had no idea, because you totally ignored all my other input outside of that one post.
Do people behave the same when you (1) annoy them and they're trying to ignore you or (2) are having positive interactions with you? Is that something you'd be willing to take into consideration when judging people's alignments based on the interactions you have with them?
When other players told you that you were tunneling, did you de-tunnel?
When other players told you it was obvious hyperbole, did you de-tunnel?
When I told you that you were tunneling, did you de-tunnel?
When other players told you that your beef with me was borne of wounded pride and a personal slight, and didn't care one bit about it, did you de-tunnel?
When you were never nightkilled, did it occur to you that your tunnel might have been helpful to the scum, and did you de-tunnel?
There was nothing, nothing to get you out of that tunnel over a single post on page 2, that lasted an entire game.
As a townie, did you think that your tunnel could look town to me?
As a townie, did you think I have left you alive had I been scum? Never mind the WIFOM; do you think I would have left you alive?
Well...as usual, you didn't answer my questions. I'd still like those answered. To answer yours;
I don't think you ever did tell me it was hyperbole, but, no, that would't have sold me - I would have wanted you to tell me why you did what you did.
I did pay attention to your posts - I will agree I didn't find them to be bleeding town, but then a number of other players also didn't get that off you, so I'm not sure that's an issue with me alone.
I don't think people behave the same when they are annoyed - that said, I'm not sure how what I did was any more annoying than refusing to answer a question. Are you saying you started playing anti-town and refused to answer my questions because I was annoying? How was I annoying *prior* to getting bent out of shape that you were ignoring my questions? I don't think that timeline plays out. As far as the second part, I don't really get the question here - you're asking me if I would have townish vibes if someone was interacting positively with me? I would say, generally, yes, I do that. Though the interactions would need to feel like scumhunting more than just empty friendliness.
When other players told me I was tunneling I discussed what I was doing with them - none disagreed.
I don't think any other player told me it was obvious hyperbole, so no, I didn't react to that.
When you told me I was tunneling I asked you to answer my questions - you then refused to. I'm not sure why you thought that would end the tunnel. It certainly didn't help my situation.
Which player told me my issue was borne of hurt pride and personal slight? I don't think this ever happened.
Scum also didn't NK dC who tunneled on scum Az all game - I find this to be a false concept.
There might have been something to get me out, if you had defended your actions and answered my questions - it certainly had worked in the past when you had done that method.
As a townie I have town read and scum read people who tunneled. I can see where your scum read on me came from, I guess you cannot see where mine on you came from. I'm not sure what that says. But, yes, I understand, as town, your scum read on me - I do disagree with how you dealt with it once you didn't have a scum read on me. Frankly, as town I disagree with how you dealt with it when it was a scum read, but you were trying to lynch me, and in a general sense that is what you do as town to scum reads.
I don't have a strong opinion on your NK meta, I have often claimed in this game that I had no clear idea of your meta. I suppose from the way this is phrased the answer is 'no' but if you had asked me that during the game I wouldn't have had that as an answer - I have, as scum, both killed and not killed people tunneling me for various reasons. I would have supposed you would do the same.
Actually, I feel like the last few posts do also kind of serve as a bottle example of my issue with you this game. I felt like I was trying to have a conversation and learn something, and I felt like you were making up things and trying to shout at me until I'd stop.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Thor, you're not looking for insight, you're looking to make me wrong, and make you right.
That's OK, it's your prerogative; and because I perceive any further conversation to be counterproductive... I will walk away. I know when to walk away.
Just as a head's up, I just edited the above post. Am I blind, or did it not make an alert note about it?
Or maybe we turned off that system after the game ended?
That's an issue as far as Mafia games on this board goes.
Edit: Test Edit after Rhand's post
I've had that happen a few times as well. I think it is because no one else had seen the page when you edited.
But I'm not sure.
Still unoptimal, but not a 'oh dear gawd the house is burning' moment.
You keep forgetting that we played this game without an iso function... clearly that effects every MS'er play. I had to play very much "in the moment" and I didn't look back the way I usually do.
I never answered your question - because it was such obvious hyperbole that I thought your persistence about something this painfully evident meant that you were scum. I tend not to argue with scum. That's my unspoken motto. Don't argue with scum. It was also my Achilles' heel with DCIII. Plus I knew there was no argument (especially: "it was hyperbole!") that would convince you. Someone else chimed in and called it hyperbole on my behalf (Azrael of all people, if memory serves). Be honest. Would you have let go if I told you it was hyperbole? I would wager that you wouldn't have budged an inch.
I did bring up your tunneling issues, I was hoping to get help in reading other players from you, bounce back opinions with you... it's a good thing to do regardless of how you feel about a player's alignment. I got nothing from you. You were always right back to that one post that defined the game for you.
There are some players that WIFOM themselves "yes s/he looks town but COULD BE FAKING!!!!" - when in fact that level of emotion is quite hard to fake. My assumption is that when people fake, there is a lot less effort. Tammy was writing a lot of words for someone that's faking. She could write one post and lurk. But no. So she was NOT faking. Quantity is important here. Everything CAN be faked. But faking takes more effort and tires or bores the faker faster than the sincere person.
If you create reactions, and your judgment is going to be marred by "reactions are easy to fake" then don't bother creating reactions, it's not your thing. You just upset people for no game pay off - you tend not to know when/how to back down, when you crossed that line when it becomes personal because it's not longer about reading people's alignment... when you decided it could all be faked anyway. When you call someone for faking emotions, and 6 players chime in that Tammy is totes town for said emotions... consider that your skills at reading emotions are not good, and defer to the other players... back away, and concentrate on what you do best, which is picking up logical fallacies, and try to examine all players evenly and fairly for this.
You can totally do that on this forum.
Easily and elegantly?
1. Why, in a different game, did you choose to address it but not this time?
2. Why didn't you address it during the period you claimed to be town reading me, as a means of helping de-tunnel the tunneled town?
Would you have thought me to be town suddenly, if I said it was hyperbole? Like whoa everybody, nobody lynch Kami ever she's obv town hyperboling all over me? Yay Thor/Kami townblock? You don't know that because you never paid any attention to all my other posts. Maybe they were bleeding town, maybe they were oozing scum. You had no idea, because you totally ignored all my other input outside of that one post.
Do people behave the same when you (1) annoy them and they're trying to ignore you or (2) are having positive interactions with you? Is that something you'd be willing to take into consideration when judging people's alignments based on the interactions you have with them?
When other players told you that you were tunneling, did you de-tunnel?
When other players told you it was obvious hyperbole, did you de-tunnel?
When I told you that you were tunneling, did you de-tunnel?
When other players told you that your beef with me was borne of wounded pride and a personal slight, and didn't care one bit about it, did you de-tunnel?
When you were never nightkilled, did it occur to you that your tunnel might have been helpful to the scum, and did you de-tunnel?
There was nothing, nothing to get you out of that tunnel over a single post on page 2, that lasted an entire game.
As a townie, did you think that your tunnel could look town to me?
As a townie, did you think I have left you alive had I been scum? Never mind the WIFOM; do you think I would have left you alive?
Well...as usual, you didn't answer my questions. I'd still like those answered. To answer yours;
I don't think you ever did tell me it was hyperbole, but, no, that would't have sold me - I would have wanted you to tell me why you did what you did.
I did pay attention to your posts - I will agree I didn't find them to be bleeding town, but then a number of other players also didn't get that off you, so I'm not sure that's an issue with me alone.
I don't think people behave the same when they are annoyed - that said, I'm not sure how what I did was any more annoying than refusing to answer a question. Are you saying you started playing anti-town and refused to answer my questions because I was annoying? How was I annoying *prior* to getting bent out of shape that you were ignoring my questions? I don't think that timeline plays out. As far as the second part, I don't really get the question here - you're asking me if I would have townish vibes if someone was interacting positively with me? I would say, generally, yes, I do that. Though the interactions would need to feel like scumhunting more than just empty friendliness.
When other players told me I was tunneling I discussed what I was doing with them - none disagreed.
I don't think any other player told me it was obvious hyperbole, so no, I didn't react to that.
When you told me I was tunneling I asked you to answer my questions - you then refused to. I'm not sure why you thought that would end the tunnel. It certainly didn't help my situation.
Which player told me my issue was borne of hurt pride and personal slight? I don't think this ever happened.
Scum also didn't NK dC who tunneled on scum Az all game - I find this to be a false concept.
There might have been something to get me out, if you had defended your actions and answered my questions - it certainly had worked in the past when you had done that method.
As a townie I have town read and scum read people who tunneled. I can see where your scum read on me came from, I guess you cannot see where mine on you came from. I'm not sure what that says. But, yes, I understand, as town, your scum read on me - I do disagree with how you dealt with it once you didn't have a scum read on me. Frankly, as town I disagree with how you dealt with it when it was a scum read, but you were trying to lynch me, and in a general sense that is what you do as town to scum reads.
I don't have a strong opinion on your NK meta, I have often claimed in this game that I had no clear idea of your meta. I suppose from the way this is phrased the answer is 'no' but if you had asked me that during the game I wouldn't have had that as an answer - I have, as scum, both killed and not killed people tunneling me for various reasons. I would have supposed you would do the same.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Thor, you're not looking for insight, you're looking to make me wrong, and make you right.
That's OK, it's your prerogative; and because I perceive any further conversation to be counterproductive... I will walk away. I know when to walk away.