Iso: I shall make a preposterous case against someone!
Azrael: Your case is preposterous.
Iso: Shhhhh, you're messing with my cunning subterfuge to gain reactions!
Azrael: Cunning? Subterfuge?
If it were cunning, well - it just isn't cunning, so we can cross that off the list. It's a really blunt instrument, to the point that it looks to me like carelessness, or possibly show-boating for credentials, take your pick. If it were meant as subterfuge to gains reactions from an early wagon, well, that latest post puts a dagger right in the heart of any possible benefit from a townie perspective. Reads much more like a combination of A) annoyance at being called out early B) wanting to take credit for being sneaky and townish C)fear/adversarial instinct. I read that, and I see "fight or flight" plastered all over it. Happy with the vote.
Maybe I could have written this more clearly.
Iso's attack on Tammy isn't genuine. There's no real basis behind it. If I had to take a guess, I don't think that's because he's being a dumb, over-aggressive scum. I think he's being a too-clever scum who is intentionally attacking an obvious townie so that he can parade his townie credentials before us all by presenting his cleverly constructed reaction trap to us. He's not attacking Tammy for being scum, he's attacking her in order to trap scum...supposedly.
Problem is, it's a really bad trap. For one, Tammy is too obv-town for it to work, so it makes an awkward choice for an effective townie trap. Two, the way that Iso was quizzing down Ced - it's way too obvious what he's doing. So is his caution to me to "not interfere". He's doing something that a townie *ought* to do subtly, in a really ham-fisted and obvious sort of way. I mean, let's just write across the sky in fire letters "HELlOOOOOO I AM RUNNING A GAMBIT". I don't think as a town he's that ham-fisted and clumsy in his gambits, but as scum, trying to be overly clever and present a facade of helpfulness, I think he very well might. It doesn't have to be sneaky - it just has to be obvious what he's doing.
Aside from that, his last post betrays a pretty sharp non-townish spike of hostile emotions in response to my early pressure. It's phrased as something you say to a teammate (which he has no way of knowing, if he's town), but that's not the inherent vibe behind the words. The vibe behind the words is more like "CURSE YOU, SCOOBY DOO". Big disconnect between the content, and the emotion, and the objective that he's pretending to have. Pretty disingenuous stuff. Somehow that makes me feel all warm and gooey inside. Huh. Must be my ego threatening to get bigger.
Two down, one more to go. Who's the last one, Iso?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
So, Hooker Punch has claimed 'bad player' though at least it was a thankfully short period and everyone else ignored it because they're 'not bad players' but...*sigh*
Kami also claimed scum in my eyes for applying a tell to Tammy and not...oh, whoever the other person on Page 1 kvetching about real life play was. Pretty sure it was Tar. Mostly I just remember him putting himself on perma v/la...which is just weak, and more objectionable than the gak Tammy spouted about hating th egame but still deciding to play with us because...uf' da!
Also, the mod apparently wanted confirms and couldn't be arsed to put it in the role PM, ain't nobody got time for that!
I am not bad at scum.
If I knew any scumtells I had I'd change them so they couldn't be used - therefore I am never aware of valid tells for me. I am also unaware of anyone who claims to be able to read me besides one player who has, thus far, never guessed my alignment right...so maybe she can read me, but only if you take the reverse of whatever she swears in blood is the truth. (Hint: I don't think she can read me)
So, Hooker Punch has claimed 'bad player' though at least it was a thankfully short period and everyone else ignored it because they're 'not bad players' but...*sigh*
Kami also claimed scum in my eyes for applying a tell to Tammy and not...oh, whoever the other person on Page 1 kvetching about real life play was. Pretty sure it was Tar. Mostly I just remember him putting himself on perma v/la...which is just weak, and more objectionable than the gak Tammy spouted about hating th egame but still deciding to play with us because...uf' da!
Also, the mod apparently wanted confirms and couldn't be arsed to put it in the role PM, ain't nobody got time for that!
Vote: Kami
Speed wagon now pl0x?
Ah yes, you. You're the one who scared me when I skimmed a couple pages through the other games. I'll probably advocate killing you later b/c I won't be able to trust my read on you. But not till the end-game, I'm a tease like that. Have a nice day!
Also, you're totally correct about Tammy vs. Taredas. Also not a fan of how Taredas just ignored my random question. It was probably the most post-worthy post up until then, the closest thing to substantive that we had, but he just kind of randomly glosses past it to make a lame joke vote (also a tell), and empathize about how terrible mafiascum is (clearly a terrible website full of terrible people. Clearly). Like, I'm fine if he doesn't take it seriously, but not answering at all seems like he just didn't know how to field the prompt appropriately. Nice little nexus of three and a half little tells, there.
Ah yes, you. You're the one who scared me when I skimmed a couple pages through the other games. I'll probably advocate killing you later b/c I won't be able to trust my read on you. But not till the end-game, I'm a tease like that. Have a nice day!
Sweet, that will give me plenty of time to easily mislynch you in the interim - my scum plans know no bounds.
The bussing comment is worth about a half point on my scum-scale and maybe a 3/4 point for the sort-of inconsistency on V/LA. Mildly more scummy than the average, kind of a jaywalker in my book at this point, feeling much better about Iso.
You should come join Hooker and I in the Iso hot-tub. The water is warm, and I give great massages...
What's Iso's scumtell? If it's not a sexy bullet point I'm going to wave my hand, dismiss it, and make snide remarks about how you should sheep me. I'm very witty, and try to make the barbs hurt.
He's pretending to be running a gambit, but he isn't, because he's doing it badly/wrongly/fake-ishly. And getting angry under the surface, except now he's letting it show on the surface. And when all that didn't work he's started trying to make us believe he's a power role, oh noes.
Basically your case is all "Tammy is obv. town!" (debatable in my opinion, she is easily capable of faking what she's done thus far, and isn't under real pressure yet) and then Iso is all like "don't question my sekret push o' brilliance!" (direct quote) and you're all like "U R Scumz!"
First off - Iso is *exactly* the sort of guy who would present what ever he is doing as a brilliant push.
Secondly, from everyone I know, pushing Tammy is also *exactly* what you do to try and get a solid read on her - that's like Tammy 101.
Thirdly, being convinced you have a brilliant method that Az disagrees with...isn't really that brilliant of a point, and I find ol' Bad play Hooker over there kinda sketch for sheeping that over any of a dozen other available options.
Now, don't get me wrong, page 4, it's a functional case.
However, meanwhile, my case is actually a shockingly solid case for Page 4, like...really solid. It's application of a tell to one player whilst ignoring another, and the one ignored is a questionable looking player for what he's doing also. That's pretty amazing stuff.
So wrap yourself in some shawls and start baa-ing already, yeah?
Basically your case is all "Tammy is obv. town!" (debatable in my opinion, she is easily capable of faking what she's done thus far, and isn't under real pressure yet) and then Iso is all like "don't question my sekret push o' brilliance!" (direct quote) and you're all like "U R Scumz!"
Clearing obv-townies is my speciality. With an ity, not a ty. Tammy is an obv-townie.
Quote from "iso" »
First off - Iso is *exactly* the sort of guy who would present what ever he is doing as a brilliant push.
Secondly, from everyone I know, pushing Tammy is also *exactly* what you do to try and get a solid read on her - that's like Tammy 101.
Thirdly, being convinced you have a brilliant method that Az disagrees with...isn't really that brilliant of a point, and I find ol' Bad play Hooker over there kinda sketch for sheeping that over any of a dozen other available options.
Now, don't get me wrong, page 4, it's a functional case.
However, meanwhile, my case is actually a shockingly solid case for Page 4, like...really solid. It's application of a tell to one player whilst ignoring another, and the one ignored is a questionable looking player for what he's doing also. That's pretty amazing stuff.
So wrap yourself in some shawls and start baa-ing already, yeah?
I don't think Iso is presenting himself as brilliant - I think he's presenting himself as doing something that he's not actually trying to do. I think he's faking, tilting, and has gotten startlingly defensive startlingly fast. Which some players are prone to do, but what really bugs me about that is the way he started off talking like we were on the same team ('don't screw me up buddy'), while underneath that post, there's this undercurrent of 'or else', or maybe 'you bastard'. That's a lot of fakeness for page 4. I don't like fake.
I don't think Iso is presenting himself as brilliant - I think he's presenting himself as doing something that he's not actually trying to do. I think he's faking, tilting, and has gotten startlingly defensive startlingly fast. Which some players are prone to do, but what really bugs me about that is the way he started off talking like we were on the same team ('don't screw me up buddy'), while underneath that post, there's this undercurrent of 'or else', or maybe 'you bastard'. That's a lot of fakeness for page 4. I don't like fake.
I find none of that out of line with what I would expect from Iso. What experience with him do you have outside of this game - am I wrong?
I DONT KNOW I JUST FIND IT WEIRD WHEN PEOPLE SAY ME SELFVOTING IS WEIRD
I didn't call it weird - I called it a declaration of poor play.
Feel free to tell me the pro town situation you expected it to generate if you want to wow me. I've done it a few times myself...as scum, I think it works really well for scum and advances their wincon. Other than that it mostly seems to be used as a weak/bad conversation starter, or a self-entitled give up method that they try to justify as helping town, or blaming town over making them do it.
Why are you so happy sheeping Az and not me? Do you agree that his case is better than mine? Why? if you do not - then why are you sitting there like a lump?
O
However, meanwhile, my case is actually a shockingly solid case for Page 4, like...really solid. It's application of a tell to one player whilst ignoring another, and the one ignored is a questionable looking player for what he's doing also. That's pretty amazing stuff.
I mean, he "75% agreed" that it was scummy, not a ringing endorsement, there. I do like the Taredas connection, though. When Iso and Taredas flip scum, I'll upgrade that tell to a finer vintage and we can ride off into the sunset with a three-day town win.
Clearing obv-townies is my speciality. With an ity, not a ty. Tammy is an obv-townie.
Disagreeing with you fails to make it push worthy.
Certainly, but the case isn't dependent on us disagreeing about Tammy - because that explanation (that he honestly believes Tammy is scum) ignores the part where he just about writes across the sky in flaming letters that he DOESN'T actually think Tammy is scum, and he's running a gambit.
But at the end of the day, I don't really care what he thinks about Tammy's alignment, it's not germane to my case. What I care about is that his gambit doesn't look like a genuine townie gambit, it looks like a hollow facade built to create street cred.
Quote from "thor" »
I find none of that out of line with what I would expect from Iso. What experience with him do you have outside of this game - am I wrong?
I've basically been here forever, I remember when Iso first started here, and his brother invited him, and while I haven't played a whole lot of games in the past year or two, most of the games I've played since Iso came here, Iso has played in them. He's pretty brash, yeah, but usually when he's running some kind of a cunning plan he doesn't go out of his way tip his hand so badly.
Azrael is trying way too hard to make the really obvious point that Tammy is town. This is especially apparent when you compare it to how much work he put into voting Taredas.
Why are you so self-conscious in your second to last post, Tammy?
Why are you hyperaware of what people called you scummy for in the last games, Kami, if you didn't change that up in the last game? More importantly: If you can make a post that says 'ced is scum', why do you feel like you would be throwing your vote around? Is that not a reason to keep your vote in one spot, or is your read not firm enough? If the latter, then I really MUST know what makes ced scummier than Tammy in your eyes.
Okay, I'm putting my foot down.
Iso, your Tammy attack stinks and you should back off. I've been in the sort of situation Tammy is describing, I know how it feels. Her reaction here is a *town* tell if anything - her frustration reads genuine (I'm reminded of how Vi responded to being attacked in the last Crosstown - that's *why* I'm putting my foot down), and while it's *possible* that said frustration could come from scum feeling annoyed with RL, I don't think it's *likely*.
(Not seeing the DGB attack either - I could easily see town!DGB act the way she has towards Tammy/ced. Too early to tell.)
Because my name is Tammy?
I mean it's almost like I didn't say in MY FIRST ******* POST I CAN'T DEAL WITH MAFIA RIGHT NOW AND I NEED A BREAK. I hope you're ******* town ISO, I really do because if you're scum and taking advantage of someone who is kind frankly literally telling you I can't handle this right now and I NEED A ******* BREAK, then I have no words.
Why is it that Taredas was the only one who could even understand where I might be coming from? Gonna call him town for that, just because he seems to remember humans are playing this stupid game.
Having been in that situation on multiple occasions helps with that. (Remember checked-out Tar in Cross-Town 2?)
So, Hooker Punch has claimed 'bad player' though at least it was a thankfully short period and everyone else ignored it because they're 'not bad players' but...*sigh*
Kami also claimed scum in my eyes for applying a tell to Tammy and not...oh, whoever the other person on Page 1 kvetching about real life play was. Pretty sure it was Tar. Mostly I just remember him putting himself on perma v/la...which is just weak, and more objectionable than the gak Tammy spouted about hating th egame but still deciding to play with us because...uf' da!
Also, the mod apparently wanted confirms and couldn't be arsed to put it in the role PM, ain't nobody got time for that!
Vote: Kami
Speed wagon now pl0x?
I just flaked out of Dark Night of the Moon on 'Scum because my Internet access went out unexpectedly, and I know no other way to communicate "I *should* be able to post actively, but I'd like a little leeway just in case" than a precautionary V/LA.
(Also, I hadn't noticed that Proph was co-mod (oops!) - Proph knows about my Internet situation already, so the V/LA declaration was unnecessary.)
Azrael, are you scum? Because we have to trust you first before we can answer, although I'm way too trusting.
Yes, I'm scum. You may now continue to trust me. Blindly and unswervingly. What could go wrong? *steepled fingers*
Also, your name is Captain Jack Sparrow, and your purpose in Port Royal is to commandeer one of these ships, pick up a crew in Tortuga, raid, pillage, plunder and otherwise pilfer your weasely black guts out.
And you know what? I think you, like Captain Jack Sparrow, aren't lying.
I read Redux Invitational. I saw your town game there - slow, methodical, serious, working through *why* player's actions made sense from a given alignment.
I *also* read OtR and parts of Cyberspace - where you were scum and discarded the methodical tone in favor of mudslinging.
And now here, in this game... you're slinging mud at Iso and myself without delving into the why. Moreover, your interactions with Nat have the same joking fluffiness that I've seen from scum far too many times (see Iso in Cross-Town 2 and Pleasantville for excellent examples).
Ah yes, you. You're the one who scared me when I skimmed a couple pages through the other games. I'll probably advocate killing you later b/c I won't be able to trust my read on you. But not till the end-game, I'm a tease like that. Have a nice day!
Also, you're totally correct about Tammy vs. Taredas. Also not a fan of how Taredas just ignored my random question. It was probably the most post-worthy post up until then, the closest thing to substantive that we had, but he just kind of randomly glosses past it to make a lame joke vote (also a tell), and empathize about how terrible mafiascum is (clearly a terrible website full of terrible people. Clearly). Like, I'm fine if he doesn't take it seriously, but not answering at all seems like he just didn't know how to field the prompt appropriately. Nice little nexus of three and a half little tells, there.
Bull****.
There's a really obvious reason why I wouldn't answer a really dumb question during RVS - because it's a dumb question during RVS. I was around for the Random Question Stage idiocy back when it was in vogue on 'Scum (circa 2008, before MafiaScum meta changed in a way that makes me want to pull my hair out). It died out fast, for the simple reason that all those questions did was help scum hide without posting actual content.
Of course, there was another reason for not commenting - because I'm prone to putting people on the backburner until I feel like I've seen enough to go public. Let's take a look at that question again, shall we?
Ok, raise your hand if you're terrible as scum, and please share all your tells with us. TIA.
Anyone who refuses to answer shall be summarily guillotined. Have a nice day!
This has town motivation why, exactly?
It doesn't help find scum at all - scum can just give a flippant response (hell, that's MORE likely than just ignoring the question - bad scum would be more afraid of the "summarily guillotined" part). Moreover, it's *lazy*, and from what I've seen Aztown isn't usually lazy (see Redux Invit for a good example - Az went into serious analyst mode very, very quickly in that game).
It makes sense from a scum mindset, though! It has three very useful effects for scum - it asks a busy question that if answered by enough players will give scum a chance to blend in, it creates openings for attack later in the game (twist a player's words to paint them as acting like they said they do as scum), and most importantly it implicitly encourages players to underestimate you by subconsciously suggesting that you are bad as scum.
And speaking of that, take a look at Azrael's comment about Thor above: "I'll probably advocate killing you later b/c I won't be able to trust my read on you. But not till the end-game, I'm a tease like that". Az doesn't feel he can trust his read on Thor, so he wants to deal with him later, at the end of the game... when being wrong potentially costs town the game? As opposed to early on, when town can better afford to be wrong? That makes no sense... unless Az is scum, knows Thor's alignment, and is subconsciously thinking about pushing through a late mislynch or squeeze play.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
So firstly, I'd like to apologize to Tammy. I was going to do so earlier, but my phone ate my post. And I'm glad it did, because we have scumAz stringing himself up within the first 2 pages of the game! Anyway, Tammy, I apologize for being a jackass - it's in my nature to be a provocative ********, and incidentally, it's one of my easiest ways of getting a read on a player.
But, I don't need to say that out loud, because you know who else knows that?
My vote was serious, insofar as I was curious as to the strange language Tammy used in her opening post. So, being the snake that I am, I pushed for a reaction. Volatile, emotional reactions are great for me, because 9 times out of 10, I read them correctly - a recent example being in Majora's Mask, when I made Generic implode, and I correctly ascertained that his implosion was irrelevant to his alignment: He was scum, as I suspected.
But moving on from stroking my Mafia wang, Tammy reacted in a genuine way that I feel makes her town. But I wasn't done being a bad Iso, no. I wanted more.
I didn't like Az's opening post, so naturally, I played along instead of ganking him immediately for it. Additionally, I started pumping Kami and ced for information. Kami's sketchy and I'd put her as most likely scum behind Az. ced hasn't responded yet, and Az completely ruined any semblance of a chance of getting a genuine response from ced. Thanks, Az!
So, Az is exactly right: My push on Tammy is not genuine. And there's absolutely no need for townAz to pre-empt my rebuttal - that I was pushing for reactions.
Azrael himself, ladies and gentlemen, said the following:
Iso is really, really good at generating reactions. Ditto on Seppel. Drawback tends to come from when they're over-committed, and distracted by other games going on. They also can tend to attract lynch attention, and aren't always the best at persuading others to see what they see. Still, as town, I love to see these guys turn up on my side, because the reactions they generate are phenomenal, and Seppel's gut reads in particular are extremely solid.
If Az knows that I'm "really, really good at generating reactions", then why would he intentionally impede my reaction-generating? Az is in unfamiliar territory with at least half of the players in this game - he may not know who may or may not have been inclined to bite on the Iso line.
"But Iso, it was so obviously fake!"
Then why did post after post go by until Az stepped in, with no one calling me out? Seeing as I start off most of my games doing something differently to garner reactions and see players' mindsets early on, it baffles me that Az has somehow "determined" (no doubt through some occult ritual involving blood sacrifices; how else could he know?) that I am scum. I mean, there would be no way for Az to see my motive at this point in the game, given that I hadn't gone anywhere with my scheme at that point intentionally. TownAz would be trying to figure out Iso at this point - not deciding he was scum. This has eerie shades of Cyberspace, wherein Az made a similar move:
Already pulled. Iso is scum. I'm ready to end the day now. [/serious]
after voting me in post 36 of that game.
As you can see in the quote by Az where he states I'm good at generating reactions, he also stated I'm good at drawing lynch attention. Az is eloquent, devious, and an excellent Mafia player. He respects me as a player mutually, but he also thinks I'm easy lynch material, as demonstrated by his early push on me in Cyberspace, as well. Ladies and gentlemen of the town, Az is performing what is frequently referred to as "going after the low-hanging fruit", which is not typically something town do. Az was afraid of what I was digging into - that's the only reason he stopped me, otherwise he would've let me set up a mislynch and then let me get mislynched in the process. Once Az flips scum, I think the next 3 people we need to look at are Kami, ced, and Tammy, in that order.
tl;dr: Az is scum, vote him.
HookerPunch, in the words of Yanni, "Stop dickriding kpaca Azrael."
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Aside from that, his last post betrays a pretty sharp non-townish spike of hostile emotions in response to my early pressure. It's phrased as something you say to a teammate (which he has no way of knowing, if he's town), but that's not the inherent vibe behind the words. The vibe behind the words is more like "CURSE YOU, SCOOBY DOO". Big disconnect between the content, and the emotion, and the objective that he's pretending to have. Pretty disingenuous stuff. Somehow that makes me feel all warm and gooey inside. Huh. Must be my ego threatening to get bigger.
So, what exactly makes my hostility non-townish? Because I think it's perfectly reasonable for me to be upset at you slapping the investigation tool out of my hand and stomping on it when I was already tip-toeing on the edge of where I might or might not have been successful. After all, ced's been out of the game for a while, from what I understand (aside from an off-site game or two in the past year or so), so it's perfectly viable to presume that he's not as sharp as he used to be, and may even be prone to an early slip.
Also, I wanted to post this clip earlier, but couldn't from my phone:
Azrael is trying way too hard to make the really obvious point that Tammy is town. This is especially apparent when you compare it to how much work he put into voting Taredas.
So, Hooker Punch has claimed 'bad player' though at least it was a thankfully short period and everyone else ignored it because they're 'not bad players' but...*sigh*
Kami also claimed scum in my eyes for applying a tell to Tammy and not...oh, whoever the other person on Page 1 kvetching about real life play was. Pretty sure it was Tar. Mostly I just remember him putting himself on perma v/la...which is just weak, and more objectionable than the gak Tammy spouted about hating th egame but still deciding to play with us because...uf' da!
Also, the mod apparently wanted confirms and couldn't be arsed to put it in the role PM, ain't nobody got time for that!
Vote: Kami
Speed wagon now pl0x?
If we don't lynch Az Day 1 for some godforsaken reason, then I'm so down.
What's Iso's scumtell? If it's not a sexy bullet point I'm going to wave my hand, dismiss it, and make snide remarks about how you should sheep me. I'm very witty, and try to make the barbs hurt.
[quote from="Iso" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/outside-magic/mafia/553869-cross-town-3-watchmen-mafia-day-one-an-unfunny?comment=32"]Why are you so self-conscious in your second to last post, Tammy?
Why are you hyperaware of what people called you scummy for in the last games, Kami, if you didn't change that up in the last game? More importantly: If you can make a post that says 'ced is scum', why do you feel like you would be throwing your vote around? Is that not a reason to keep your vote in one spot, or is your read not firm enough? If the latter, then I really MUST know what makes ced scummier than Tammy in your eyes.
Okay, I'm putting my foot down.
Iso, your Tammy attack stinks and you should back off. I've been in the sort of situation Tammy is describing, I know how it feels. Her reaction here is a *town* tell if anything - her frustration reads genuine (I'm reminded of how Vi responded to being attacked in the last Crosstown - that's *why* I'm putting my foot down), and while it's *possible* that said frustration could come from scum feeling annoyed with RL, I don't think it's *likely*.
Chill. I got what I needed, for the most part.
Quote from Taredas »
[quote from="Iso" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/outside-magic/mafia/553869-cross-town-3-watchmen-mafia-day-one-an-unfunny?comment=64"]One chance for me to not rain a goddamn unholy fire upon your poor, frail cranium, Az. One chance. Back off.
Why bother giving him the chance? He's scum. (See below for details.)
I'm just a nice guy.
(And also because I wanted a chance to continue my push before I changed my direction to Az, to unearth a bit more about Kami/ced.)
-
Oh, I think I remember one of Az's scumtells - claiming he's scum.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Ugh, broken quote tags. Whatever. Should be obvious what's mine and what's Az's.
Oh, also, Az is trying to push me for an early/pre-emptive claim because he knows I have a tendency to do that. TownAz wouldn't do that. ScumAz just did.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Vote: Azrael. I don't like Iso's #85, but that doesn't detract from Azrael's overtheatrics and entrapment tactics enough.
...and ye gods, the new hyperlinking is ugly.
Private Mod Note
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Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
So, counter-factual vague assertions (Cyan), awful meta arguments and OMGUS (taredas/iso), interpreting jokes as though they were serious (Taredas), and I don't even know how to respond to DC's point because I don't know what he means by entrapment and apparently he's had selective amnesia regarding things like World Dom 2 and most every town-start I've had, ever. Any other filler cliches and excuse-cases anyone needs to work out of their system? Now's your chance. Everybody's doing it.
@Tar - whether or not you do or don't have access what do you think of DGB leaping on Tammy for her excuses and ignoring yours? Are yours just that much more believable or something?
.oh, whoever the other person on Page 1 kvetching about real life play was. Pretty sure it was Tar. Mostly I just remember him putting himself on perma v/la...which is just weak, and more objectionable than the gak Tammy spouted...
Azrael is trying way too hard to make the really obvious point that Tammy is town. This is especially apparent when you compare it to how much work he put into voting Taredas.
.oh, whoever the other person on Page 1 kvetching about real life play was. Pretty sure it was Tar. Mostly I just remember him putting himself on perma v/la...which is just weak, and more objectionable than the gak Tammy spouted...
Tar did that last game... he was town. Remember?
I have to look for other tells for him.
So you're saying the tell is valid but not on Tar? As in, if last game hadn't happened you would have called them both scum?
Apparently that feature means jack all.
...whatever, stupid site. I'll probably be back later to complain about the ISO feature when I bother to try to figure out how that's handled now.
Nothing vague about it. You spent considerable time hammering in a point that required minimal explanation(Tammy being town), and spent almost no time providing evidence of your scum vote. Your lack of town-sincerity here is completely clear.
So, counter-factual vague assertions (Cyan), awful meta arguments and OMGUS (taredas/iso), interpreting jokes as though they were serious (Taredas), and I don't even know how to respond to DC's point because I don't know what he means by entrapment and apparently he's had selective amnesia regarding things like World Dom 2 and most every town-start I've had, ever. Any other filler cliches and excuse-cases anyone needs to work out of their system? Now's your chance. Everybody's doing it.
Wow, this is a handwave if I've ever seen one. What I'm reading here is, "I can not respond to the cases presented against me without seeming like uberscum so I'm going to just pretend everyone pushing me is scum/insane and it'll all go away." NOPE
Azrael is trying way too hard to make the really obvious point that Tammy is town. This is especially apparent when you compare it to how much work he put into voting Taredas.
Scummity scum scum. Vote Azrael
Cyan is scum.
If you're going to play this game, at least pretend you're town so we can lynch Az more easily.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Well I was definitely trying to respond to Azrael's last post there. This software is the worst. I'm fascinated that a random guy running a VBulletin website can get bought out by a multi-million dollar company and the overall user experience just becomes worse in every way(or at least every way that I've experienced so far). What the actual ****.
I feel like if Az were town, that the correct play would be to look for the people who bit on to my garbage Tammy push - but he's not, and prevented any semblance of that occurring by heading me off at the pass.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
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Either way, we're all gonna burn
Either way, we're all gonna burn
Maybe I could have written this more clearly.
Iso's attack on Tammy isn't genuine. There's no real basis behind it. If I had to take a guess, I don't think that's because he's being a dumb, over-aggressive scum. I think he's being a too-clever scum who is intentionally attacking an obvious townie so that he can parade his townie credentials before us all by presenting his cleverly constructed reaction trap to us. He's not attacking Tammy for being scum, he's attacking her in order to trap scum...supposedly.
Problem is, it's a really bad trap. For one, Tammy is too obv-town for it to work, so it makes an awkward choice for an effective townie trap. Two, the way that Iso was quizzing down Ced - it's way too obvious what he's doing. So is his caution to me to "not interfere". He's doing something that a townie *ought* to do subtly, in a really ham-fisted and obvious sort of way. I mean, let's just write across the sky in fire letters "HELlOOOOOO I AM RUNNING A GAMBIT". I don't think as a town he's that ham-fisted and clumsy in his gambits, but as scum, trying to be overly clever and present a facade of helpfulness, I think he very well might. It doesn't have to be sneaky - it just has to be obvious what he's doing.
Aside from that, his last post betrays a pretty sharp non-townish spike of hostile emotions in response to my early pressure. It's phrased as something you say to a teammate (which he has no way of knowing, if he's town), but that's not the inherent vibe behind the words. The vibe behind the words is more like "CURSE YOU, SCOOBY DOO". Big disconnect between the content, and the emotion, and the objective that he's pretending to have. Pretty disingenuous stuff. Somehow that makes me feel all warm and gooey inside. Huh. Must be my ego threatening to get bigger.
Two down, one more to go. Who's the last one, Iso?
Wanna have sex?
Well, nobody's perfect. It's ok, we can still have sex.
Good thing my wife doesn't read these games.
vote: Iso 4 my lover though
Either way, we're all gonna burn
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Either way, we're all gonna burn
Kami also claimed scum in my eyes for applying a tell to Tammy and not...oh, whoever the other person on Page 1 kvetching about real life play was. Pretty sure it was Tar. Mostly I just remember him putting himself on perma v/la...which is just weak, and more objectionable than the gak Tammy spouted about hating th egame but still deciding to play with us because...uf' da!
Also, the mod apparently wanted confirms and couldn't be arsed to put it in the role PM, ain't nobody got time for that!
Vote: Kami
Speed wagon now pl0x?
I am not bad at scum.
If I knew any scumtells I had I'd change them so they couldn't be used - therefore I am never aware of valid tells for me. I am also unaware of anyone who claims to be able to read me besides one player who has, thus far, never guessed my alignment right...so maybe she can read me, but only if you take the reverse of whatever she swears in blood is the truth. (Hint: I don't think she can read me)
And I also forgot that Thor and I have never really played together oh man oh me oh my.
Either way, we're all gonna burn
This must be reverse psychology, right? Because if not, you don't know me at all.
You can claim a day one power role if you want to, fine by me. We'll still kill you.
Ah yes, you. You're the one who scared me when I skimmed a couple pages through the other games. I'll probably advocate killing you later b/c I won't be able to trust my read on you. But not till the end-game, I'm a tease like that. Have a nice day!
Also, you're totally correct about Tammy vs. Taredas. Also not a fan of how Taredas just ignored my random question. It was probably the most post-worthy post up until then, the closest thing to substantive that we had, but he just kind of randomly glosses past it to make a lame joke vote (also a tell), and empathize about how terrible mafiascum is (clearly a terrible website full of terrible people. Clearly). Like, I'm fine if he doesn't take it seriously, but not answering at all seems like he just didn't know how to field the prompt appropriately. Nice little nexus of three and a half little tells, there.
Either way, we're all gonna burn
Does this matter in any way at all?
Also - vote Kami?
Sweet, that will give me plenty of time to easily mislynch you in the interim - my scum plans know no bounds.
Vote Kami?
You should come join Hooker and I in the Iso hot-tub. The water is warm, and I give great massages...
Basically your case is all "Tammy is obv. town!" (debatable in my opinion, she is easily capable of faking what she's done thus far, and isn't under real pressure yet) and then Iso is all like "don't question my sekret push o' brilliance!" (direct quote) and you're all like "U R Scumz!"
First off - Iso is *exactly* the sort of guy who would present what ever he is doing as a brilliant push.
Secondly, from everyone I know, pushing Tammy is also *exactly* what you do to try and get a solid read on her - that's like Tammy 101.
Thirdly, being convinced you have a brilliant method that Az disagrees with...isn't really that brilliant of a point, and I find ol' Bad play Hooker over there kinda sketch for sheeping that over any of a dozen other available options.
Now, don't get me wrong, page 4, it's a functional case.
However, meanwhile, my case is actually a shockingly solid case for Page 4, like...really solid. It's application of a tell to one player whilst ignoring another, and the one ignored is a questionable looking player for what he's doing also. That's pretty amazing stuff.
So wrap yourself in some shawls and start baa-ing already, yeah?
Either way, we're all gonna burn
(7 to lynch)
Kami of Lunacy (2): Taredas, Thor665
Iso (2): Azrael, HookerPunch
Tammy (2): Iso, ced395
ced395 (1): Tammy
Abstain (5): desCoures, Cyan, Nachomamma8, Kami of Lunacy, Zen_Soul
The deadline is May 9, 18 days from now.
Clearing obv-townies is my speciality. With an ity, not a ty. Tammy is an obv-townie.
I don't think Iso is presenting himself as brilliant - I think he's presenting himself as doing something that he's not actually trying to do. I think he's faking, tilting, and has gotten startlingly defensive startlingly fast. Which some players are prone to do, but what really bugs me about that is the way he started off talking like we were on the same team ('don't screw me up buddy'), while underneath that post, there's this undercurrent of 'or else', or maybe 'you bastard'. That's a lot of fakeness for page 4. I don't like fake.
Disagreeing with you fails to make it push worthy.
I find none of that out of line with what I would expect from Iso. What experience with him do you have outside of this game - am I wrong?
I didn't call it weird - I called it a declaration of poor play.
Feel free to tell me the pro town situation you expected it to generate if you want to wow me. I've done it a few times myself...as scum, I think it works really well for scum and advances their wincon. Other than that it mostly seems to be used as a weak/bad conversation starter, or a self-entitled give up method that they try to justify as helping town, or blaming town over making them do it.
Why are you so happy sheeping Az and not me? Do you agree that his case is better than mine? Why? if you do not - then why are you sitting there like a lump?
I mean, he "75% agreed" that it was scummy, not a ringing endorsement, there. I do like the Taredas connection, though. When Iso and Taredas flip scum, I'll upgrade that tell to a finer vintage and we can ride off into the sunset with a three-day town win.
Certainly, but the case isn't dependent on us disagreeing about Tammy - because that explanation (that he honestly believes Tammy is scum) ignores the part where he just about writes across the sky in flaming letters that he DOESN'T actually think Tammy is scum, and he's running a gambit.
But at the end of the day, I don't really care what he thinks about Tammy's alignment, it's not germane to my case. What I care about is that his gambit doesn't look like a genuine townie gambit, it looks like a hollow facade built to create street cred.
I've basically been here forever, I remember when Iso first started here, and his brother invited him, and while I haven't played a whole lot of games in the past year or two, most of the games I've played since Iso came here, Iso has played in them. He's pretty brash, yeah, but usually when he's running some kind of a cunning plan he doesn't go out of his way tip his hand so badly.
Scummity scum scum. Vote Azrael
Okay, I'm putting my foot down.
Iso, your Tammy attack stinks and you should back off. I've been in the sort of situation Tammy is describing, I know how it feels. Her reaction here is a *town* tell if anything - her frustration reads genuine (I'm reminded of how Vi responded to being attacked in the last Crosstown - that's *why* I'm putting my foot down), and while it's *possible* that said frustration could come from scum feeling annoyed with RL, I don't think it's *likely*.
(Not seeing the DGB attack either - I could easily see town!DGB act the way she has towards Tammy/ced. Too early to tell.)
The setup was fine, one-confirmable-town-role-too-many problems aside.
The playerbase, on the other hand... *shudders*. There's like five players in that game I would be willing to play with again.
---
Having been in that situation on multiple occasions helps with that. (Remember checked-out Tar in Cross-Town 2?)
---
I just flaked out of Dark Night of the Moon on 'Scum because my Internet access went out unexpectedly, and I know no other way to communicate "I *should* be able to post actively, but I'd like a little leeway just in case" than a precautionary V/LA.
(Also, I hadn't noticed that Proph was co-mod (oops!) - Proph knows about my Internet situation already, so the V/LA declaration was unnecessary.)
---
Also, your name is Captain Jack Sparrow, and your purpose in Port Royal is to commandeer one of these ships, pick up a crew in Tortuga, raid, pillage, plunder and otherwise pilfer your weasely black guts out.
And you know what? I think you, like Captain Jack Sparrow, aren't lying.
I read Redux Invitational. I saw your town game there - slow, methodical, serious, working through *why* player's actions made sense from a given alignment.
I *also* read OtR and parts of Cyberspace - where you were scum and discarded the methodical tone in favor of mudslinging.
And now here, in this game... you're slinging mud at Iso and myself without delving into the why. Moreover, your interactions with Nat have the same joking fluffiness that I've seen from scum far too many times (see Iso in Cross-Town 2 and Pleasantville for excellent examples).
Moreover:
Bull****.
There's a really obvious reason why I wouldn't answer a really dumb question during RVS - because it's a dumb question during RVS. I was around for the Random Question Stage idiocy back when it was in vogue on 'Scum (circa 2008, before MafiaScum meta changed in a way that makes me want to pull my hair out). It died out fast, for the simple reason that all those questions did was help scum hide without posting actual content.
Of course, there was another reason for not commenting - because I'm prone to putting people on the backburner until I feel like I've seen enough to go public. Let's take a look at that question again, shall we?
This has town motivation why, exactly?
It doesn't help find scum at all - scum can just give a flippant response (hell, that's MORE likely than just ignoring the question - bad scum would be more afraid of the "summarily guillotined" part). Moreover, it's *lazy*, and from what I've seen Aztown isn't usually lazy (see Redux Invit for a good example - Az went into serious analyst mode very, very quickly in that game).
It makes sense from a scum mindset, though! It has three very useful effects for scum - it asks a busy question that if answered by enough players will give scum a chance to blend in, it creates openings for attack later in the game (twist a player's words to paint them as acting like they said they do as scum), and most importantly it implicitly encourages players to underestimate you by subconsciously suggesting that you are bad as scum.
And speaking of that, take a look at Azrael's comment about Thor above: "I'll probably advocate killing you later b/c I won't be able to trust my read on you. But not till the end-game, I'm a tease like that". Az doesn't feel he can trust his read on Thor, so he wants to deal with him later, at the end of the game... when being wrong potentially costs town the game? As opposed to early on, when town can better afford to be wrong? That makes no sense... unless Az is scum, knows Thor's alignment, and is subconsciously thinking about pushing through a late mislynch or squeeze play.
Unvote, Vote: Azrael
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
You brought this on yourself, Az.
Typing up a dreadnought - or at least what I predict will be one.
In the meantime, Unvote
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
But, I don't need to say that out loud, because you know who else knows that?
Azrael.
Let's look at the beginning.
My vote was serious, insofar as I was curious as to the strange language Tammy used in her opening post. So, being the snake that I am, I pushed for a reaction. Volatile, emotional reactions are great for me, because 9 times out of 10, I read them correctly - a recent example being in Majora's Mask, when I made Generic implode, and I correctly ascertained that his implosion was irrelevant to his alignment: He was scum, as I suspected.
But moving on from stroking my Mafia wang, Tammy reacted in a genuine way that I feel makes her town. But I wasn't done being a bad Iso, no. I wanted more.
I didn't like Az's opening post, so naturally, I played along instead of ganking him immediately for it. Additionally, I started pumping Kami and ced for information. Kami's sketchy and I'd put her as most likely scum behind Az. ced hasn't responded yet, and Az completely ruined any semblance of a chance of getting a genuine response from ced. Thanks, Az!
So, Az is exactly right: My push on Tammy is not genuine. And there's absolutely no need for townAz to pre-empt my rebuttal - that I was pushing for reactions.
Azrael himself, ladies and gentlemen, said the following:
If Az knows that I'm "really, really good at generating reactions", then why would he intentionally impede my reaction-generating? Az is in unfamiliar territory with at least half of the players in this game - he may not know who may or may not have been inclined to bite on the Iso line.
"But Iso, it was so obviously fake!"
Then why did post after post go by until Az stepped in, with no one calling me out? Seeing as I start off most of my games doing something differently to garner reactions and see players' mindsets early on, it baffles me that Az has somehow "determined" (no doubt through some occult ritual involving blood sacrifices; how else could he know?) that I am scum. I mean, there would be no way for Az to see my motive at this point in the game, given that I hadn't gone anywhere with my scheme at that point intentionally. TownAz would be trying to figure out Iso at this point - not deciding he was scum. This has eerie shades of Cyberspace, wherein Az made a similar move:
after voting me in post 36 of that game.
As you can see in the quote by Az where he states I'm good at generating reactions, he also stated I'm good at drawing lynch attention. Az is eloquent, devious, and an excellent Mafia player. He respects me as a player mutually, but he also thinks I'm easy lynch material, as demonstrated by his early push on me in Cyberspace, as well. Ladies and gentlemen of the town, Az is performing what is frequently referred to as "going after the low-hanging fruit", which is not typically something town do. Az was afraid of what I was digging into - that's the only reason he stopped me, otherwise he would've let me set up a mislynch and then let me get mislynched in the process. Once Az flips scum, I think the next 3 people we need to look at are Kami, ced, and Tammy, in that order.
tl;dr: Az is scum, vote him.
HookerPunch, in the words of Yanni, "Stop dickriding
kpacaAzrael."Vote Az
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Chill. I got what I needed, for the most part.
I'm just a nice guy.
(And also because I wanted a chance to continue my push before I changed my direction to Az, to unearth a bit more about Kami/ced.)
-
Oh, I think I remember one of Az's scumtells - claiming he's scum.
oh look what he did whoops
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Oh, also, Az is trying to push me for an early/pre-emptive claim because he knows I have a tendency to do that. TownAz wouldn't do that. ScumAz just did.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Vote: Cyan
Unvote: Cyan
Now.
Vote: Azrael. I don't like Iso's #85, but that doesn't detract from Azrael's overtheatrics and entrapment tactics enough.
...and ye gods, the new hyperlinking is ugly.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
(7 to lynch)
Azrael (4): Cyan, Taredas, Iso, desCoures
Iso (2): Azrael, HookerPunch
Tammy (1): ced395
Kami of Lunacy (1): Thor665
ced395 (1): Tammy
Abstain (3): Nachomamma8, Kami of Lunacy, Zen_Soul
The deadline is May 9, 17 days from now.
I see your new name too now
Unvote:
Vote: DGB
With a heavy heart I've found the first scum
So, counter-factual vague assertions (Cyan), awful meta arguments and OMGUS (taredas/iso), interpreting jokes as though they were serious (Taredas), and I don't even know how to respond to DC's point because I don't know what he means by entrapment and apparently he's had selective amnesia regarding things like World Dom 2 and most every town-start I've had, ever. Any other filler cliches and excuse-cases anyone needs to work out of their system? Now's your chance. Everybody's doing it.
When are they going to cross-bus except on page 2???
Tar did that last game... he was town. Remember?
I have to look for other tells for him.
Cyan is scum.
So you're saying the tell is valid but not on Tar? As in, if last game hadn't happened you would have called them both scum?
I know it's rare for me to be this consistent, LOL.
Tammy you say a lot of words and I can't read your posts but don't sheep DGB she's scum
Isn't she
Aren't you
DGB
come on
lying isn't easy don't bus now
And, DGB as scum is feeling pretty decent to me right now.
...whatever, stupid site. I'll probably be back later to complain about the ISO feature when I bother to try to figure out how that's handled now.
Please do something useful.
I'm having a hard time believing you're this bad this game.
You're a little behind the program, Zen.
Wow, this is a handwave if I've ever seen one. What I'm reading here is, "I can not respond to the cases presented against me without seeming like uberscum so I'm going to just pretend everyone pushing me is scum/insane and it'll all go away." NOPE
If you're going to play this game, at least pretend you're town so we can lynch Az more easily.
Um, why?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player