Unvote. At this point... Prophy hasn't even posted yet. Yet you declare that you're gonna lock your vote on him. There is no possible reason, none at all, that you have reason to think he's scum at this point.
When I saw this post originally I saw classic rvs. Admittadly without knowing who GS really is I can't judge that (and I guess I can't try and deduce that since it's scummy, right Proph ) but I didn't believe Killjoy could really find this as scummy as he said (at least not until GS clarified that she was serious).
Unproductive, WIFOMy question...
What do you expect him to answer? "Derp. Yep. Ya caught me. All that scummy guilt that's built up in the last two hours since the game started is gone now. Thank you for freeing me from that scummy guilt prison."
I've seen plenty of silly questions like this in rvs and again I am sceptical anyone not in their first game finds it to be real WIFOM rather than a joke. The over explanation also looks odd.
The rest is just banter AFAICT, but this post felt more like scum taking the bait than a legitimate town response.
When I saw this post originally I saw classic rvs. Admittadly without knowing who GS really is I can't judge that (and I guess I can't try and deduce that since it's scummy, right Proph ) but I didn't believe Killjoy could really find this as scummy as he said (at least not until GS clarified that she was serious).
I see confusion from killjoy regarding GS's actions - he didn't understand why GS could have a scumread on me before I had even posted, and so he jumped on it.
I've seen plenty of silly questions like this in rvs and again I am sceptical anyone not in their first game finds it to be real WIFOM rather than a joke. The over explanation also looks odd.
Question: Do you know what the purpose of "Are you scum?" is? It's a legitimate question - I'll give you that.
I want to see more from killjoy at this point. His RVS stuff gave me a bunch of mixed signals - I get the feeling that he actually believes GS is scum, but I don't like his backpedal.
Arian is very.. cautious, and coupled with the RVS vote I'd be willing to vote for him or Antny.
Proph I know it's embarrassing that you're going to get lynched because you didn't say hi to me, but you aren't really helping your case at all by continuing to ignore me.
Can you enumerate your reasoning for the vote ITT just so it's as clear as possible?
In the simplest terms I didn't like post twenty. Graduating Schoolgirl's opening posts didn't read serious to me and your response and vote towards her looked forced.
I'm not sure I follow your logic here. How does being mistaken about whether or not you're a hydra == scummy intent? Expand on that a bit please
As to the vote on me, I see a reason for it, but I'll ask Ant to explain it so there's no doubt.
There's an inconsistency.
He doesn't think I'm part of the Graduating Schoolgirl hydra as evidenced by his first RVS post, but he thinks that Graduating Schoolgirl is a hydra, despite me being the only one to request to hydra with GS.
If he doesn't think that I'm a part of a hydra with GS, then who did he think that GS is a hydra of?
Ok. But inconsistency =/= deception. Why does you being a part of a hydra, in his mind, make you scum? And what about him getting that wrong makes him scum?
Unvote. At this point... Prophy hasn't even posted yet. Yet you declare that you're gonna lock your vote on him. There is no possible reason, none at all, that you have reason to think he's scum at this point.
When I saw this post originally I saw classic rvs. Admittadly without knowing who GS really is I can't judge that (and I guess I can't try and deduce that since it's scummy, right Proph ) but I didn't believe Killjoy could really find this as scummy as he said (at least not until GS clarified that she was serious).
Unproductive, WIFOMy question...
What do you expect him to answer? "Derp. Yep. Ya caught me. All that scummy guilt that's built up in the last two hours since the game started is gone now. Thank you for freeing me from that scummy guilt prison."
I've seen plenty of silly questions like this in rvs and again I am sceptical anyone not in their first game finds it to be real WIFOM rather than a joke. The over explanation also looks odd.
The rest is just banter AFAICT, but this post felt more like scum taking the bait than a legitimate town response.
Why are you so sure GS is just baiting for responses? You seem to be operating under that assumption, but I see no hard evidence of that fact.
Asking for a vote count instead of providing content...
Hello people, this is a slam dunk lynch.
Why are you ignoring literally everything else he's said? He IS providing content. Read that and see how that does for ya.And while you're at it... provide some content yourself. Please.
Question: Do you know what the purpose of "Are you scum?" is? It's a legitimate question - I'll give you that.
Wait, what's a legitamate question? Asking what the purpose of asking if someone's scum is, or asking if someone is scum? The wording of this is odd.
I want to see more from killjoy at this point. His RVS stuff gave me a bunch of mixed signals - I get the feeling that he actually believes GS is scum, but I don't like his backpedal.
Arian is very.. cautious, and coupled with the RVS vote I'd be willing to vote for him or Antny.
What about Arian seems cautious to you?
Also, I'm having trouble reading GS. She's just basically active lurking right now. She's not providing any real content.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
-Shrug-. I'm always cautious early on, and you're fully aware of that, Proph. Antny is reading like low-hanging fruit to me, so I'm not sure why you're pushing him. #54 reads like you're trying to offload pressure away from you, which is especially odd since in #39 you state that you are "unhappy that you didn't get a 5th vote on you." You're reading and acting like an enigma wrapped in an Iso wrapped in a taco this game.
Keep in mind also that like... 1/3 of this game hasn't checked in/ done more than RVS yet. I'm gonna wait to hear from them as well before I make any further judgements.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
-Shrug-. I'm always cautious early on, and you're fully aware of that, Proph.
Really? I took a look at your other town games (Apocalypse, EoA) and they both featured a more proactive Arianrhod than what I've seen this game.
Quote from Arianrhod »
Antny is reading like low-hanging fruit to me, so I'm not sure why you're pushing him.
How does Antny read like low-hanging fruit? He's certainly experienced.
Quote from Arianrhod »
#54 reads like you're trying to offload pressure away from you, which is especially odd since in #39 you state that you are "unhappy that you didn't get a 5th vote on you." You're reading and acting like an enigma wrapped in an Iso wrapped in a taco this game.
Unvote, vote aryan rod.
The joke feels forced. In addition, I get the feeling that you think I'm scum. If so, why isn't your vote on me?
Apocalypse is a bad game to look at for me. It's the only game that I've ever had to replace out of, and it's coupled with the peculiarities of my role that game, which made me a bit bolder early (before I realized I'd have to replace). I'd suggest Majora's Mask as a better game for my town play.
My read on Antny is probably colored by the fact that he read as a very new player to me in Xymande. I want to say that he also said he was a newer played when asked shortly after he replaced in, but I can't go back and check on that right now.
I don't think you're scum. I just don't know what you are. I know you're a skilled enough player that if you were scum, you'd stay away from Antny, not engage him. You might've slipped, but that seems like a very rook mistake, and if that's the case, it'll come out eventually. For now, you're a null read in my book -- null in that you have +s and -s which are canceling each other out.
Do you feel that his wagon is justified? Or are you not being serious too?
I think it was good thing, for forcing us out of RVS. I'm concerned that out of the three unexplained votes on Proph (four, if you count your own), you decided to tunnel on one. The weird thing is the post order:
Unvote. At this point... Prophy hasn't even posted yet. Yet you declare that you're gonna lock your vote on him. There is no possible reason, none at all, that you have reason to think he's scum at this point.
Unproductive, WIFOMy question...
What do you expect him to answer? "Derp. Yep. Ya caught me. All that scummy guilt that's built up in the last two hours since the game started is gone now. Thank you for freeing me from that scummy guilt prison."
I'm sure they are afraid. One of their own just got caught.
Vote Graduating Schoolgirl.
There was a 10 hour gap between your vote for Proph (which came directly after GS's vote). Since the basis of your case was GS's naked vote, why did you jump on the wagon instead of questioning him/her on it then and there?
@fulcrum- My initial vote on Proph was OMGUS, in response to his vote on me. After I saw GS's posts which I responded to, I went back and saw her vote on proph. I then added it to the top of my post.
I didn't question her then and there because I thought it was just so... bad I guess? She basically said "I'm voting Proph. No unvotes." and "Srsly I'm town gyz," which I saw and just... I couldn't believe she was being that obvious. I mean... was she new? Was this her first game of mafia that she didn't know not to do that as scum?
Obviously that's changed since I can't verify her playstyle. (Although I think I know who it MIGHT be, I doubt he would say if I guessed it right anyway). And I can't see him continuing this playstyle for this long.
And I'm not voting her anymore because I believe it's likely I misinterpreted her motives. I need more time to figure out what they might be.
You cite that there were 3 other unexplained votes on Proph... so why aren't you questioning the people who did them then?
What do you think of GS?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I went looking for the signups thread because I seem to remember amidst all of the standard pregame joshing that Generic + Proph = GS, which would now mean that that account is just Generic. However, the signups thread seems to have disappeared -- and it isn't in the "Old Signup Threads" subforum, either. If GS is Generic, then I would say that his play so far aligns roughly with what I would expect.
Killjoy, can you expand on #20, please -- specifically why you chose to end RVS at that point?
This post is useless. I understand Killjoy asking who GS was to get a better read on him, but speculating on it isn't going to do anything.
The question to Killjoy is obvious if you read his post; he saw something scummy so he ended RVS. Why else would someone end RVS?
Quote from Prophylaxis »
There's an inconsistency.
He doesn't think I'm part of the Graduating Schoolgirl hydra as evidenced by his first RVS post, but he thinks that Graduating Schoolgirl is a hydra, despite me being the only one to request to hydra with GS.
If he doesn't think that I'm a part of a hydra with GS, then who did he think that GS is a hydra of?
Okay... where's the scum motivation? If Antny was scum, why would he fake not knowing that GS is not a hydra this game?
Or alternatively, why would scum be more likely to forget GS is not a hydra?
Quote from Proph »
It's a classic scum "lust for information". Your question had no real scumhunting purpose, and scum are afraid of the unknown in a way town aren't. Scum will attempt to in some way remove the unknowns, which is what Antny was trying to do here (deduct GS's identity).
But town have a perfectly legitimate reason for asking; in order to better read the person. Especially given that Antny puts pressure on Killjoy in the same post, I can't see it as a real scumtell.
Why didn't you bring up Killjoy or Arianrod on this?
@Proph:
I don't think you're scum. I just don't know what you are. I know you're a skilled enough player that if you were scum, you'd stay away from Antny, not engage him. You might've slipped, but that seems like a very rook mistake, and if that's the case, it'll come out eventually. For now, you're a null read in my book -- null in that you have +s and -s which are canceling each other out.
Proph clearly doesn't see Antny as a soft target (and Antny isn't really playing like a soft target either). And even if Proph did, skilled players go after soft targets all the time. You're being really WIFOMy in this reason for being unsure on Proph and it feels really forced.
Vote Arianrhod
I want you to specifically say what is +s and -s for you on Proph.
Voting someone not in the game shows a lack of commitment to the game and very likely a fear of not wanting to get associated with scum buddies in RVS..
OMGUS! Unvote , Vote Prophy
Put that in your mouth and suck smoke it.
I don't like you. Too energetic at first.. and i see no OMGUS in Prophs vote. In fact, i see NO reason stated in prophs vote. This post seems to use humor to hide a vote that is scum on town.
This serious of posts makes me leanScum on GS. Asks proph if he's scum, but then goes on saying that he would basically kill proph if he had the votes, meaning the question is irrelevant. Then, on top of that, stating he is town and that all scums should be afraid does't help the fact that he just said he wanted to kill proph. Seems like he messed up and tried to cover it up with a succession of posts. I do not find your silliness helpful at all.
Do you feel that his wagon is justified? Or are you not being serious too?
I do like Killjoys comment to GS. I agree that he is being incredibly unhelpful. The second part of this quote is a deflection. Asking another question is not an answer.
@Killjoy - I was thinking that GS was baiting for reactions. Unlike you I can see potential town motivation behind her posting - to get out of RVS quickly and see if she can catch an opportunistic scum.
@Arian - I think your getting confused with the Generic/Rhand hydra which got randomed out the player list I think. Knowing where that sign up thread ended up would be nice.
@Killjoy - I do care about GS reasons regarding Proph, and I am waiting for her response to question.
It's strange how you are calling GS a she. Sadly, most people on forums assume people are male unless stated otherwise. I don't see this as a tell yet, but it could indicate conversation outside of this game I.E: a scumchat. I might be reaching on this point. :/
...Yet he assumes that Graduating Schoolgirl is a hydra, when the only person who expressed interest in hydraing with Graduating Schoolgirl is.. me, in the signups thread.
(Echoing Arian: Where is the signups thread?)
His question is just basic scum info-gathering, and the vote on killjoy doesn't actually include a reason why he's scum.
I don't like you. Too energetic at first.. and i see no OMGUS in Prophs vote. In fact, i see NO reason stated in prophs vote. This post seems to use humor to hide a vote that is scum on town.
Oh no, you misunderstood. I'm OMGUSing Prophy in response to his vote on me. I didn't mean that HE OMGUSed. That was RVS, btw.
I do like Killjoys comment to GS. I agree that he is being incredibly unhelpful. The second part of this quote is a deflection. Asking another question is not an answer.
The reason for the nature of my answer was simple: I didn't think it a serious question. That's why I asked if it was serious.
I interpretted it as him asking why I was derailing an RVS wagon. Those typically dissolve when RVS ends anyway, so my thought was that he was doing the semi-standard RVS practice of "MOAR VOTES ON X" instead of literally asking that.
To answer the question, since I don't think I have yet: Derailing a wagon was not my intent. I wanted to put pressure on GS for reasons I explained.
It's strange how you are calling GS a she. Sadly, most people on forums assume people are male unless stated otherwise. I don't see this as a tell yet, but it could indicate conversation outside of this game I.E: a scumchat. I might be reaching on this point. :/
I'm doing that too. It's because her persona is female (Graduating Schoolgirl) and her avvy is female. Also she's never corrected me. You're reaching for sure.
/barn
Vote Antny
I assume your reasons for this are the same as Prophys. So, the same question I threw at him: Why is mistaking GS as a hydra, and apperently knowing that prophy isn't one of them scummy? Where's the intent?
OOG: When did hydras even become a thing? Before I left, I'm pretty sure they weren't allowed on this site. That's obviously changed.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Here's what I've gotten from this small bit. Note that I don't have much experience playing with any of you.
GS has gone out of his way to focus attention on himself, then claims to have inside information on Proph. Very strange play, and I don't see town or scum motivation for doing this. Just gonna wait and see where this slot goes.
Killjoy reads town to me for pretty much the same reasons that have been stated already. He ended RVS, scumhunted despite not having played in a while, and talks in a way that looks like town motivation.
Arianrhod is a pretty null read for me. One one hand, he appears to be focused on responding to questions directed at him rather than scumhunting (#35 wasn't much of a question, and there was no followup), but on the other, his responses to said question look sincere.
Prophylaxis has a bunch of votes on him, but they're not backed by anything, so the fact that he isn't sweating it much reads town.
Antny is a light scumread for me. He speaks like he has inside information, and his responses seem to come from scenarios that have already reached a conclusion in his head.
@fulcrum- My initial vote on Proph was OMGUS, in response to his vote on me. After I saw GS's posts which I responded to, I went back and saw her vote on proph. I then added it to the top of my post.
I didn't question her then and there because I thought it was just so... bad I guess? She basically said "I'm voting Proph. No unvotes." and "Srsly I'm town gyz," which I saw and just... I couldn't believe she was being that obvious. I mean... was she new? Was this her first game of mafia that she didn't know not to do that as scum?
Obviously that's changed since I can't verify her playstyle. (Although I think I know who it MIGHT be, I doubt he would say if I guessed it right anyway). And I can't see him continuing this playstyle for this long.
And I'm not voting her anymore because I believe it's likely I misinterpreted her motives. I need more time to figure out what they might be.
You cite that there were 3 other unexplained votes on Proph... so why aren't you questioning the people who did them then?
What do you think of GS?
That's reasonable. As for the other unexplained votes on Proph, one of them was from me, another was from you (and I am questioning it, in a way), and the first two were within the bounds of normal RVS.
Surreal. 12 people that have known each other for years, that have looked at each other's faces in times of mirth, joy, strength... now replaced with feelings of suspicion, anger... fear. As they stood in the Godswood, coming to grips with the gravity of the situation, each and every one of them couldn't help but question those who they had come to love and trust.
When I saw this post originally I saw classic rvs. Admittadly without knowing who GS really is I can't judge that (and I guess I can't try and deduce that since it's scummy, right Proph ) but I didn't believe Killjoy could really find this as scummy as he said (at least not until GS clarified that she was serious).
I see confusion from killjoy regarding GS's actions - he didn't understand why GS could have a scumread on me before I had even posted, and so he jumped on it.
Well we saw different things then. Out of interest what is your opinion of GS's opening posts?
I've seen plenty of silly questions like this in rvs and again I am sceptical anyone not in their first game finds it to be real WIFOM rather than a joke. The over explanation also looks odd.
Question: Do you know what the purpose of "Are you scum?" is? It's a legitimate question - I'll give you that.
I believe "Are you scum?" was meant to gauge reactions from you and other players. What reason do believe a player would ask this?
Proph I know it's embarrassing that you're going to get lynched because you didn't say hi to me, but you aren't really helping your case at all by continuing to ignore me.
I don't agree that we're gonna lynch Proph for not saying hi but I agree with the part about not liking Proph ignoring GS.
Can you enumerate your reasoning for the vote ITT just so it's as clear as possible?
In the simplest terms I didn't like post twenty. Graduating Schoolgirl's opening posts didn't read serious to me and your response and vote towards her looked forced.
Ok. What was forced about it?
Asked and answered (you even quote the answer in this post )
I'm not sure I follow your logic here. How does being mistaken about whether or not you're a hydra == scummy intent? Expand on that a bit please
As to the vote on me, I see a reason for it, but I'll ask Ant to explain it so there's no doubt.
There's an inconsistency.
He doesn't think I'm part of the Graduating Schoolgirl hydra as evidenced by his first RVS post, but he thinks that Graduating Schoolgirl is a hydra, despite me being the only one to request to hydra with GS.
If he doesn't think that I'm a part of a hydra with GS, then who did he think that GS is a hydra of?
Ok. But inconsistency =/= deception. Why does you being a part of a hydra, in his mind, make you scum? And what about him getting that wrong makes him scum?
Unproductive, WIFOMy question...
What do you expect him to answer? "Derp. Yep. Ya caught me. All that scummy guilt that's built up in the last two hours since the game started is gone now. Thank you for freeing me from that scummy guilt prison."
I've seen plenty of silly questions like this in rvs and again I am sceptical anyone not in their first game finds it to be real WIFOM rather than a joke. The over explanation also looks odd.
The rest is just banter AFAICT, but this post felt more like scum taking the bait than a legitimate town response.
Why are you so sure GS is just baiting for responses? You seem to be operating under that assumption, but I see no hard evidence of that fact. [/quote]
I can't be certain but the posts read like a player looking to make something happen to pull us out of rvs. In terms of a player's motivation you can't really ever have hard evidence in mafia.
That said I actually agree with the last three points of your post KillJoy and you do seem to be legitimately scumhunting. unvote
-Shrug-. I'm always cautious early on, and you're fully aware of that, Proph.
Really? I took a look at your other town games (Apocalypse, EoA) and they both featured a more proactive Arianrhod than what I've seen this game.
Comparing games, Arianrhoad posted once in the first 48 hours of EoA and didn't get really provide any early action (the mass house claim thing seemed to occupy the opening of the game though).
In Apocalypse he also wasn't very active in the first couple of days and the only posts were commenting on stuff that happened in the thread,
What point are trying make here exactly Proph?
Quote from Arianrhod »
Antny is reading like low-hanging fruit to me, so I'm not sure why you're pushing him.
How does Antny read like low-hanging fruit? He's certainly experienced.
Not only is this not true Proph, but if there was one player this game I know my experience it's you.
Quote from Arianrhod »
#54 reads like you're trying to offload pressure away from you, which is especially odd since in #39 you state that you are "unhappy that you didn't get a 5th vote on you." You're reading and acting like an enigma wrapped in an Iso wrapped in a taco this game.
Unvote, vote aryan rod.
The joke feels forced. In addition, I get the feeling that you think I'm scum. If so, why isn't your vote on me?
I'm sorry but is the main reason your voting because of a forced sounding joke because that's what it sounds like?
OMGUS! Unvote , Vote Prophy
Put that in your mouth and suck smoke it.
I don't like you. Too energetic at first.. and i see no OMGUS in Prophs vote. In fact, i see NO reason stated in prophs vote. This post seems to use humor to hide a vote that is scum on town.
@Killjoy - I was thinking that GS was baiting for reactions. Unlike you I can see potential town motivation behind her posting - to get out of RVS quickly and see if she can catch an opportunistic scum.
@Arian - I think your getting confused with the Generic/Rhand hydra which got randomed out the player list I think. Knowing where that sign up thread ended up would be nice.
@Killjoy - I do care about GS reasons regarding Proph, and I am waiting for her response to question.
It's strange how you are calling GS a she. Sadly, most people on forums assume people are male unless stated otherwise. I don't see this as a tell yet, but it could indicate conversation outside of this game I.E: a scumchat. I might be reaching on this point. :/
...Yet he assumes that Graduating Schoolgirl is a hydra, when the only person who expressed interest in hydraing with Graduating Schoolgirl is.. me, in the signups thread.
(Echoing Arian: Where is the signups thread?)
His question is just basic scum info-gathering, and the vote on killjoy doesn't actually include a reason why he's scum.
/barn
Vote Antny
So after all the other points you made on other players in the thread you decided to ignore all that and sheep Proph.
Antny is a light scumread for me. He speaks like he has inside information, and his responses seem to come from scenarios that have already reached a conclusion in his head.
Killjoy reads town to me for pretty much the same reasons that have been stated already. He ended RVS, scumhunted despite not having played in a while, and talks in a way that looks like town motivation.
How does not having played for a while correlate with desire to scumhunt?
Antny is a light scumread for me. He speaks like he has inside information, and his responses seem to come from scenarios that have already reached a conclusion in his head.
Asked and answered (you even quote the answer in this post )
Ok.
I'm not really interested in hypothetical situations. I will see how the GS/Proph thing unfolds and comment on what happens.
It's not going to though. GS has made that clear. So I ask again: GS is actively ignoring this game and is pursuing someone with no reason for doing so. How does GS's actions this game make you feel about her?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Antny likely scum if Killjoy is scum. Antny not scum with Proph.
Anyone I didn't mention is scum for not being notable.
I like Fulcrum.
Vote Karn
1. Faking how?
2. Who's Karn? I don't remember there being a Karn in this game.
3. So there are... *mathmathmath* 6 to 8 scum this game huh? Try harder please. This is a terrible first post.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Killjoy reads town to me for pretty much the same reasons that have been stated already. He ended RVS, scumhunted despite not having played in a while, and talks in a way that looks like town motivation.
How does not having played for a while correlate with desire to scumhunt?
Needlessly massaging your ego a bit here, but I was more pointing out that your scumhunting was effective despite your claims that you were "rusty". Putting in that kind of effort tells me you are town.
Antny is a light scumread for me. He speaks like he has inside information, and his responses seem to come from scenarios that have already reached a conclusion in his head.
I've seen plenty of silly questions like this in rvs and again I am sceptical anyone not in their first game finds it to be real WIFOM rather than a joke. The over explanation also looks odd.
The rest is just banter AFAICT, but this post felt more like scum taking the bait than a legitimate town response.
Killjoy's post did not read like that at all, and it seems like Antny was basing this argument off of his belief that GS was trying to bait out reactions. You can see that assumption here.
@Killjoy - I was thinking that GS was baiting for reactions. Unlike you I can see potential town motivation behind her posting - to get out of RVS quickly and see if she can catch an opportunistic scum.
To expand on what I said before on GS, I don't think GS's intentions with his posts were really anything other than trying a unique approach to the game, and establishing a persona to play behind for the rest of the game. GS trying to bait out reactions seems unlikely, but that is where Antny's posts start from.
@Feranath: I thought GS was baiting for reactions too, because Proph hardly posted at that point. I mean, I agree that Antny's vote for Killjoy wasn't the greatest, but I don't see how Antny had inside information, he just made a reasonable assumption about GS's posts.
I dunno, I've felt his questions and thought process have been genuine. The way he backed off GS read as cautious town, and he's been asking a lot of questions I want to ask. I don't know what you think he's faking.
Antny likely scum if Killjoy is scum. Antny not scum with Proph.
I agree that Antny isn't scum with Proph, not sure about any correlations between Antny/Killjoy
Vote Karn
GS == Karn? (only person I can think of that you could be referring to)
GS has just been tunneling on Proph, which especially if he really is Karn, I could totally see him doing as town or scum. Don't have a read on him yet.
Ok. But inconsistency =/= deception. Why does you being a part of a hydra, in his mind, make you scum? And what about him getting that wrong makes him scum?
Upon thinking about this, you're right - I wanted to pounce on anyone to end RVS/that slow early game period we were in, and Antny's inconsistency + "lust for information" seemed like the best thing to jump on.
It doesn't make him scum, but I thought it was scummy/questionable at first glance.
Quote from killjoy »
Wait, what's a legitamate question? Asking what the purpose of asking if someone's scum is, or asking if someone is scum? The wording of this is odd.
Asking if someone is scum is a legitimate question.
Quote from killjoy »
What about Arian seems cautious to you?
Covered this, in my earlier post.
Quote from Arianrhod »
Apocalypse is a bad game to look at for me. It's the only game that I've ever had to replace out of, and it's coupled with the peculiarities of my role that game, which made me a bit bolder early (before I realized I'd have to replace). I'd suggest Majora's Mask as a better game for my town play.
My read on Antny is probably colored by the fact that he read as a very new player to me in Xymande. I want to say that he also said he was a newer played when asked shortly after he replaced in, but I can't go back and check on that right now.
I don't think you're scum. I just don't know what you are. I know you're a skilled enough player that if you were scum, you'd stay away from Antny, not engage him. You might've slipped, but that seems like a very rook mistake, and if that's the case, it'll come out eventually. For now, you're a null read in my book -- null in that you have +s and -s which are canceling each other out.
From skimming your first few posts of your ISO in Majora's Mask, I feel like you gave a good rundown of what was happening in the thread and asked relevant questions. Same with your play in Apocalypse.
And now that Pleasantville ended, I feel like you did something similar in Pleasantville, with your "need to see more from dkings", hans question, and Rodemy evaluation.
In this game... hm. I've read through your recent posts and I think I want to wait a bit on you. You voted Kosa in RVS (which was scummy for the reasons sneaky stated) and I'm not a huge fan of your "enigma wrapped in an Iso wrapped in a taco this game" joke - it felt contrived. I think that your alignment will probably come out of the wash soon (I got a quick townread on you in Pleasantville, and I know the person behind GS can read you well as scum), so I'm fine waiting.
I won't unvote though; I'm frankly frustrated at this RVS because usually I can pounce on a scummy reaction to get the game going, and this is literally the first game in recent memory in which no one really did anything blatantly scummy in RVS. (See me pouncing on Antny with fairly weak reasoning, and you with OKish reasoning).
(And your read like me could be like you re: dkings in Pleasantville)
Quote from fulcrum »
So, are you scum?
I'm not, but a couple of questions regarding this:
You've went over how you used this to catch scum in WWE (by producing a self-conscious response). You know full well that, as scum, I wouldn't slip up by someone asking me this question.
Knowing this, why did you ask me this? What reaction did you expect me to produce?
What was your mindset behind asking me why I'm scum?
Were you next-leveling on the inital reasoning or.. something? Because that trick doesn't work if I know what the "safe" reaction to give, if I was scum.
Quote from ITF »
Pretty sure Killjoy is town. Ending RVS tends to be a town-tell and I've gotten a strong trying-to-figure-stuff-out vibe from his posts.
Yeah man I want to declare killjoy town too but I'm hesitant to do so, since he backpedalled a bit on GS.
Why was his unvote of GS townie?
Quote from ITF »
Okay... where's the scum motivation? If Antny was scum, why would he fake not knowing that GS is not a hydra this game?
Or alternatively, why would scum be more likely to forget GS is not a hydra?
Answered above.
Quote from ITF »
But town have a perfectly legitimate reason for asking; in order to better read the person. Especially given that Antny puts pressure on Killjoy in the same post, I can't see it as a real scumtell.
Why didn't you bring up Killjoy or Arianrod on this?
I don't know why I didn't bring up killjoy or Arian on this.
Quote from ITF »
I want you to specifically say what is +s and -s for you on Proph.
/barn
Quote from Pizza »
What was the reason behind this vote?
No reason.
Quote from Pizza »
/barn
Vote Antny
It feels really weird how your post focuses on how Arian is scummy, how you don't like killjoy, how you don't like GS. Then you abandon all of that and vote Antny.
Why? (I mean, my original reasoning for voting Antny was pretty darn weak!)
Quote from Antny223 »
I believe "Are you scum?" was meant to gauge reactions from you and other players. What reason do believe a player would ask this?
To evaluate a self-conscious response (to be fair, I only saw it work in WWE Mafia and nowhere else)
Quote from Antny223 »
Well we saw different things then. Out of interest what is your opinion of GS's opening posts?
Expected, if you know his identity.
Quote from Antny223 »
I don't agree that we're gonna lynch Proph for not saying hi but I agree with the part about not liking Proph ignoring GS.
Do you remember me ignoring Kilo as Golf, in Social Engineering?
Quote from Antny223 »
What point are trying make here exactly Proph?
Answered above.
Quote from Antny223 »
Not only is this not true Proph, but if there was one player this game I know my experience it's you.
I rank you as a "learning fast newbie" - I thought you were one of the better players in Social Engineering Mafia 2, and you were solid in Walking Dead. I don't think you're low hanging fruit at all.
Quote from Antny233 »
I'm sorry but is the main reason your voting because of a forced sounding joke because that's what it sounds like?
The forced joke was part of it, and I didn't like how he voted Kosa in RVS.
Quote from Antny223 »
So after all the other points you made on other players in the thread you decided to ignore all that and sheep Proph.
vote SunglassesCoolPizza
I think I can agree with this, but I want Pizza to come back and respond to my points first.
Quote from ITF »
Those were some weak votes for Antny.
I agree. I didn't expect people to barn my original reasoning for voting him.
Needlessly massaging your ego a bit here, but I was more pointing out that your scumhunting was effective despite your claims that you were "rusty". Putting in that kind of effort tells me you are town.
OHHHH. Ok. I read that as "He's been gone a while, so he's less likely to scumhunt."
I've seen plenty of silly questions like this in rvs and again I am sceptical anyone not in their first game finds it to be real WIFOM rather than a joke. The over explanation also looks odd.
The rest is just banter AFAICT, but this post felt more like scum taking the bait than a legitimate town response.
Killjoy's post did not read like that at all, and it seems like Antny was basing this argument off of his belief that GS was trying to bait out reactions. You can see that assumption here.
@Killjoy - I was thinking that GS was baiting for reactions. Unlike you I can see potential town motivation behind her posting - to get out of RVS quickly and see if she can catch an opportunistic scum.
To expand on what I said before on GS, I don't think GS's intentions with his posts were really anything other than trying a unique approach to the game, and establishing a persona to play behind for the rest of the game. GS trying to bait out reactions seems unlikely, but that is where Antny's posts start from.
Ok. I see where you're coming from there. But, can town not also do that?
Upon thinking about this, you're right - I wanted to pounce on anyone to end RVS/that slow early game period we were in, and Antny's inconsistency + "lust for information" seemed like the best thing to jump on.
It doesn't make him scum, but I thought it was scummy/questionable at first glance.
So, I'm still not understanding why you needed to jump on anyone. The game wasn't moving that slowly. It really hasn't moved slowly at all yet. So, why the need to jump on someone?
Asking if someone is scum is a legitimate question.
I don't agree. About 9001% of the time the person being asked just says "No" or some variation of it (I personally prefer "My ex seems to think so, but my role pm doesn't reflect it"). There really is no other valid answer to it.
Thus, it's just massively unproductive in my opinion.
If you've ever caught anyone with it, more power to ya. I can't see it happening very often though.
Yeah man I want to declare killjoy town too but I'm hesitant to do so, since he backpedalled a bit on GS.
Hmm... Ok here's a question for you: Why do YOU think I took my vote off of GS? What do you think my reason for it was?
I agree. I didn't expect people to barn my original reasoning for voting him.
Wait... so you're saying your original reasoning for voting him was weak?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
So, I'm still not understanding why you needed to jump on anyone. The game wasn't moving that slowly. It really hasn't moved slowly at all yet. So, why the need to jump on someone?
I like jumping on people.
You can read my recent games (Pleasantville, Social Engineering Mafia 2 as SEM-Romeo Lain head, Star Wars)
Quote from killjoy »
I don't agree. About 9001% of the time the person being asked just says "No" or some variation of it (I personally prefer "My ex seems to think so, but my role pm doesn't reflect it"). There really is no other valid answer to it.
Thus, it's just massively unproductive in my opinion.
If you've ever caught anyone with it, more power to ya. I can't see it happening very often though.
It can be used to produce a self-conscious response.
Do you want me to go into a (off-topic, but still interesting theory) treatise about it?
Quote from killjoy »
Hmm... Ok here's a question for you: Why do YOU think I took my vote off of GS? What do you think my reason for it was?
It felt weird. You unvote him "in absence of a more solid read on him" but the sentence previously before that was
Quote from killjoy »
But his response to my vote and every subsequent post has been extremely unhelpful. I see no town motivation for being so unhelpful. He's literally said those posts were serious now. He's not given me a reason to take his posts any other way.
Like, if he's continuing to be unhelpful (and you see no town motivation to be unhelpful), why isn't your vote still on him?
Quote from killjoy »
Wait... so you're saying your original reasoning for voting him was weak?
I didn't think it was weak at first, but people starting poking holes into it and I abandoned my scumread of Antny. I think that Arianrhod and Pizza are far more viable suspects.
I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
Feranath: I dislike repeating myself, so let's try this one more time. What does this mean?
Your thoughts on SunglassesCoolPizza would also be appreciated.
You've went over how you used this to catch scum in WWE (by producing a self-conscious response). You know full well that, as scum, I wouldn't slip up by someone asking me this question.
Knowing this, why did you ask me this? What reaction did you expect me to produce?
What was your mindset behind asking me why I'm scum?
Were you next-leveling on the inital reasoning or.. something? Because that trick doesn't work if I know what the "safe" reaction to give, if I was scum.
1. Because you didn't answer it when it was asked by GS.
2. To find out what wifom level you're playing on, and get a baseline to judge the rest of your play off of.
I'm not really interested in hypothetical situations. I will see how the GS/Proph thing unfolds and comment on what happens.
It's not going to though. GS has made that clear. So I ask again: GS is actively ignoring this game and is pursuing someone with no reason for doing so. How does GS's actions this game make you feel about her?
I can't speak to why GS is playing as she is but I don't think GS's pursuing of Proph is entirely without reason. That said all I can offer at this point is speculation, and my feelings are that GS is trying a scumhunting method I don't truly understand. If GS really does shut up shop for the rest of the day then that's an issue. But she is one of the most active players until now and her play is far too attention grabbing to be active lurking IMO.
Antny is a light scumread for me. He speaks like he has inside information, and his responses seem to come from scenarios that have already reached a conclusion in his head.
I've seen plenty of silly questions like this in rvs and again I am sceptical anyone not in their first game finds it to be real WIFOM rather than a joke. The over explanation also looks odd.
The rest is just banter AFAICT, but this post felt more like scum taking the bait than a legitimate town response.
Killjoy's post did not read like that at all, and it seems like Antny was basing this argument off of his belief that GS was trying to bait out reactions. You can see that assumption here.
@Killjoy - I was thinking that GS was baiting for reactions. Unlike you I can see potential town motivation behind her posting - to get out of RVS quickly and see if she can catch an opportunistic scum.
To expand on what I said before on GS, I don't think GS's intentions with his posts were really anything other than trying a unique approach to the game, and establishing a persona to play behind for the rest of the game. GS trying to bait out reactions seems unlikely, but that is where Antny's posts start from.
So you claim I have inside information and I'm already reaching conclusions originally and yet when pressed all you have is the fact I assumed GS was reaction baiting? And how is that assumption scummy anyway?
Ok. But inconsistency =/= deception. Why does you being a part of a hydra, in his mind, make you scum? And what about him getting that wrong makes him scum?
Upon thinking about this, you're right - I wanted to pounce on anyone to end RVS/that slow early game period we were in, and Antny's inconsistency + "lust for information" seemed like the best thing to jump on.
It doesn't make him scum, but I thought it was scummy/questionable at first glance.
This sounds a lot like backpedaling to me. Still the two players who voted me after you look more suspect and it would be surprising if the whole scumteam jumped on me so for the time being I'm willing to beleive your town.
Quote from killjoy »
Wait, what's a legitamate question? Asking what the purpose of asking if someone's scum is, or asking if someone is scum? The wording of this is odd.
Asking if someone is scum is a legitimate question.
So why did you not initially take issue with Killjoy calling GS's post a "Unproductive, WIFOMy question... "?
Quote from Antny223 »
I don't agree that we're gonna lynch Proph for not saying hi but I agree with the part about not liking Proph ignoring GS.
Do you remember me ignoring Kilo as Golf, in Social Engineering?
Yeah, but I still remember you responding to my questions at some point (unless that was Lngrrr I never really went back and worked out when he was shifting). I still think there's a point where you should be willing to state an opinion on GS even if your going to refuse to answer her questions.
Quote from Antny223 »
What point are trying make here exactly Proph?
Answered above.
I assume your referring to this:
Quote from Arianrhod »
Apocalypse is a bad game to look at for me. It's the only game that I've ever had to replace out of, and it's coupled with the peculiarities of my role that game, which made me a bit bolder early (before I realized I'd have to replace). I'd suggest Majora's Mask as a better game for my town play.
My read on Antny is probably colored by the fact that he read as a very new player to me in Xymande. I want to say that he also said he was a newer played when asked shortly after he replaced in, but I can't go back and check on that right now.
I don't think you're scum. I just don't know what you are. I know you're a skilled enough player that if you were scum, you'd stay away from Antny, not engage him. You might've slipped, but that seems like a very rook mistake, and if that's the case, it'll come out eventually. For now, you're a null read in my book -- null in that you have +s and -s which are canceling each other out.
From skimming your first few posts of your ISO in Majora's Mask, I feel like you gave a good rundown of what was happening in the thread and asked relevant questions. Same with your play in Apocalypse.
And now that Pleasantville ended, I feel like you did something similar in Pleasantville, with your "need to see more from dkings", hans question, and Rodemy evaluation.
In this game... hm. I've read through your recent posts and I think I want to wait a bit on you. You voted Kosa in RVS (which was scummy for the reasons sneaky stated) and I'm not a huge fan of your "enigma wrapped in an Iso wrapped in a taco this game" joke - it felt contrived. I think that your alignment will probably come out of the wash soon (I got a quick townread on you in Pleasantville, and I know the person behind GS can read you well as scum), so I'm fine waiting.
I won't unvote though; I'm frankly frustrated at this RVS because usually I can pounce on a scummy reaction to get the game going, and this is literally the first game in recent memory in which no one really did anything blatantly scummy in RVS. (See me pouncing on Antny with fairly weak reasoning, and you with OKish reasoning).
I don't have time to chase down Majora's Mask and Pleasantville so I'll have to leave this ATM, but I can't see anything different in Arian's play and the two games I compared so I am lost on the reasons for the your vote.
Quote from Antny223 »
Not only is this not true Proph, but if there was one player this game I know my experience it's you.
I rank you as a "learning fast newbie" - I thought you were one of the better players in Social Engineering Mafia 2, and you were solid in Walking Dead. I don't think you're low hanging fruit at all.
That's probably more accurate - though I was really punching above my weight in SEM-2 and it showed.
Quote from Antny233 »
I'm sorry but is the main reason your voting because of a forced sounding joke because that's what it sounds like?
The forced joke was part of it, and I didn't like how he voted Kosa in RVS.
OK, but since you said it was only an OKish case, what do you make of the other people voting Arian right now?
Feranath: I dislike repeating myself, so let's try this one more time. What does this mean?
Your thoughts on SunglassesCoolPizza would also be appreciated.
Allow me to introduce myself. I am Feranath. I am called ro3 on certain parts of the internet, and I like that name, so I use it. Compared to Feranath, it's easier to type and easier to say, and I've grown accustomed to it. Feranath is the name I use for websites that have a little more roleplay to them such as a forum related to MTG. Call me whatever name you wish, but I'll be referring to myself as ro3.
I have played a single mafia game on this site: SEM 2. In that game, I (Oscar) was pretty much under scrutiny the entire game for any of my posts that involved me voting.
Essentially, that post was an inside joke for myself, and did not progress the game in any way.
SunglassesCoolPizza has made a single post in this thread. Lurking? Maybe. I think it's just a matter of when he has the time to make his posts, as he had just about the same content as 5 of my posts in one of his. Really, there is not too much to go off of with him.
Now Fulcrum, what I'm wondering about is why you didn't ask what my thoughts are on you. Well, I assume you avoided asking because you didn't want it to begin with, so I'll respect your wishes. Still, it's a little strange.
Busy weekend into dentist appt into busy day at work ._____.
Quickly, though -- Proph, why are you taking issue with my RVS vote on Kosa? I banter with Kosa almost constantly...not sure where you're getting anything scummy out of it.
Busy weekend into dentist appt into busy day at work ._____.
Quickly, though -- Proph, why are you taking issue with my RVS vote on Kosa? I banter with Kosa almost constantly...not sure where you're getting anything scummy out of it.
I will let Prophylaxis answer this question, but why are you so focused on him?
There are three people voting for you, two of which are not Prophylaxis.
I've never played with either you or ITF before (to my knowledge), so I expect votes therefrom. If you two want to vote for me, that's fine. I've played with Proph before, though, so he should know better.
Allow me to introduce myself. I am Feranath. I am called ro3 on certain parts of the internet, and I like that name, so I use it. Compared to Feranath, it's easier to type and easier to say, and I've grown accustomed to it. Feranath is the name I use for websites that have a little more roleplay to them such as a forum related to MTG. Call me whatever name you wish, but I'll be referring to myself as ro3.
I have played a single mafia game on this site: SEM 2. In that game, I (Oscar) was pretty much under scrutiny the entire game for any of my posts that involved me voting.
Essentially, that post was an inside joke for myself, and did not progress the game in any way.
SunglassesCoolPizza has made a single post in this thread. Lurking? Maybe. I think it's just a matter of when he has the time to make his posts, as he had just about the same content as 5 of my posts in one of his. Really, there is not too much to go off of with him.
While that is all factually true, I actually wanted you to analyse the content of that post. Could you do that?
Now Fulcrum, what I'm wondering about is why you didn't ask what my thoughts are on you. Well, I assume you avoided asking because you didn't want it to begin with, so I'll respect your wishes. Still, it's a little strange.
And, you've lost me again. Why would I want your opinion on me, and how is not asking for it strange?
1. Because you didn't answer it when it was asked by GS.
2. To find out what wifom level you're playing on, and get a baseline to judge the rest of your play off of.
For the first one, alright.
Can you explain the second one a bit more? The answer seems entirely too.. strange?
Quote from Antny223 »
This sounds a lot like backpedaling to me. Still the two players who voted me after you look more suspect and it would be surprising if the whole scumteam jumped on me so for the time being I'm willing to beleive your town.
I'm moving off on you and moving onto people I find more viable to be scum.
Quote from Antny223 »
So why did you not initially take issue with Killjoy calling GS's post a "Unproductive, WIFOMy question... "?
I did not feel like I needed to delve into explaining why the question is legitimate at the time.
Quote from Antny223 »
Yeah, but I still remember you responding to my questions at some point (unless that was Lngrrr I never really went back and worked out when he was shifting). I still think there's a point where you should be willing to state an opinion on GS even if your going to refuse to answer her questions.
I never answered Kilo's questions - I towned it up until he declared me as a town read.
GS has never asked any questions to me except the predictable (and ultimately useless!) "are you scum"
Quote from Antny223 »
I don't have time to chase down Majora's Mask and Pleasantville so I'll have to leave this ATM, but I can't see anything different in Arian's play and the two games I compared so I am lost on the reasons for the your vote.
I'm voting Arian because:
- He voted a non-player in RVS
- His tone (more like a slow start) feels different than his other games, where he locked onto someone early-game
- His joke seemed contrived
I'm convinced that Arian's alignment will come out in the wash, and I haven't heard back from Pizza yet so I'm leaving my vote on Arian.
Quote from Antny223 »
That's probably more accurate - though I was really punching above my weight in SEM-2 and it showed.
OK.
Quote from Antny223 »
OK, but since you said it was only an OKish case, what do you make of the other people voting Arian right now?
I like them both (sneaky and ITF), though the game needs to move a bit more forward before I'm willing to lock some townreads on both of them. sneaky is a harder town read than ITF, though.
Quote from Arianrhod »
Quickly, though -- Proph, why are you taking issue with my RVS vote on Kosa? I banter with Kosa almost constantly...not sure where you're getting anything scummy out of it.
↓
Quote from SunglassesCoolPizza »
Voting someone not in the game shows a lack of commitment to the game and very likely a fear of not wanting to get associated with scum buddies in RVS..
Antny likely scum if Killjoy is scum. Antny not scum with Proph.
Anyone I didn't mention is scum for not being notable.
I like Fulcrum.
Vote Karn
1. Faking how?
2. Who's Karn? I don't remember there being a Karn in this game.
3. So there are... *mathmathmath* 6 to 8 scum this game huh? Try harder please. This is a terrible first post.
Self Conscience and then tries to go after sepple for his reads. Scummy.
Feranath: I dislike repeating myself, so let's try this one more time. What does this mean?
Your thoughts on SunglassesCoolPizza would also be appreciated.
Allow me to introduce myself. I am Feranath. I am called ro3 on certain parts of the internet, and I like that name, so I use it. Compared to Feranath, it's easier to type and easier to say, and I've grown accustomed to it. Feranath is the name I use for websites that have a little more roleplay to them such as a forum related to MTG. Call me whatever name you wish, but I'll be referring to myself as ro3.
I have played a single mafia game on this site: SEM 2. In that game, I (Oscar) was pretty much under scrutiny the entire game for any of my posts that involved me voting.
Essentially, that post was an inside joke for myself, and did not progress the game in any way.
SunglassesCoolPizza has made a single post in this thread. Lurking? Maybe. I think it's just a matter of when he has the time to make his posts, as he had just about the same content as 5 of my posts in one of his. Really, there is not too much to go off of with him.
Now Fulcrum, what I'm wondering about is why you didn't ask what my thoughts are on you. Well, I assume you avoided asking because you didn't want it to begin with, so I'll respect your wishes. Still, it's a little strange.
I posted one post 13 posts before yours that analyzed everything up to that point. I hardly call that lurking. I call that "I work a lot and I will post when I can." Calling out my post count this early in the game, especially when Sepple has made one post with less content (not to mention iRebel) feels like mudslinging.
Unvote
Vote Fern
Also, the "inside joke" was posted to people who didn't know anything about it and spoke about your town game. Feels like you posted that for a different reason and are trying to cover it up by saying it was an inside joke.
@Seppel: Can you explain your reasoning behind your reads?
EBWODP: I meant to add that Fulcrum gets a town-read from me for the question to Farn about his reads on me. I see him trying to associate two people together as possible scum. Good scum hunting method.
1. Because you didn't answer it when it was asked by GS.
2. To find out what wifom level you're playing on, and get a baseline to judge the rest of your play off of.
For the first one, alright.
Can you explain the second one a bit more? The answer seems entirely too.. strange?
Nope. I'll explain it to you after the game if I actually get something out of it.
EBWODP: I meant to add that Fulcrum gets a town-read from me for the question to Farn about his reads on me. I see him trying to associate two people together as possible scum. Good scum hunting method.
That sounds like something you should be scumreading me for.
So, I'm still not understanding why you needed to jump on anyone. The game wasn't moving that slowly. It really hasn't moved slowly at all yet. So, why the need to jump on someone?
I like jumping on people.
You can read my recent games (Pleasantville, Social Engineering Mafia 2 as SEM-Romeo Lain head, Star Wars)
And how does that help you tell alignment?
Quote from killjoy »
I don't agree. About 9001% of the time the person being asked just says "No" or some variation of it (I personally prefer "My ex seems to think so, but my role pm doesn't reflect it"). There really is no other valid answer to it.
Thus, it's just massively unproductive in my opinion.
If you've ever caught anyone with it, more power to ya. I can't see it happening very often though.
It can be used to produce a self-conscious response.
Do you want me to go into a (off-topic, but still interesting theory) treatise about it?
We can discuss it post game in the Theory thread.
Quote from killjoy »
Hmm... Ok here's a question for you: Why do YOU think I took my vote off of GS? What do you think my reason for it was?
It felt weird. You unvote him "in absence of a more solid read on him" but the sentence previously before that was
Quote from killjoy »
But his response to my vote and every subsequent post has been extremely unhelpful. I see no town motivation for being so unhelpful. He's literally said those posts were serious now. He's not given me a reason to take his posts any other way.
Like, if he's continuing to be unhelpful (and you see no town motivation to be unhelpful), why isn't your vote still on him?
Unhelpful active lurkers are scummy, sure... but they're very low on my priority list to lynch (especially Day 1) because their lynch doesn't really tell us anything. All GS has done is declare that there is a reason for you being scum before he said anything in the thread (which, NTS: If Proph is scum, GS likely scum due to inside information) and declared that the scumteam is myself, you, and Arian (or Antny, I can't remember) without any other content. I'd rather lynch a scummy player with content, like interactions with other players that may be used to determine alignment.
Quote from killjoy »
Wait... so you're saying your original reasoning for voting him was weak?
I didn't think it was weak at first, but people starting poking holes into it and I abandoned my scumread of Antny. I think that Arianrhod and Pizza are far more viable suspects.
Pizza had one post as of this post. Why is he among the scummiest players at this point in the game?
The whole thing. If I could give you a more precise answer, I wouldn't have used the word "feels."
Yes, but there's usually some part of it that particularly grabs your attention. The reads, the wordflow... something.
I don't see it as being artificial.
I can't speak to why GS is playing as she is but I don't think GS's pursuing of Proph is entirely without reason. That said all I can offer at this point is speculation, and my feelings are that GS is trying a scumhunting method I don't truly understand. If GS really does shut up shop for the rest of the day then that's an issue. But she is one of the most active players until now and her play is far too attention grabbing to be active lurking IMO.
Hm. Not entirely unreasonable. It's true that scum don't like attention, and GS's play seems to enjoy attention.
I'm done posting content until I've been proven wrong about my scumteam call.
I'll vote for any of those three Today.
Remind me, what content DID you post?
So... you haven't posted for a while at this point... and this is all you have?
No other questions?
Why is this the only thing worth mentioning at this point?
Self Conscience and then tries to go after sepple for his reads. Scummy.
I'll let you answer fulcrum's question before I explain why I wasn't being self-conscious.
As to trying to go after Seppel... I assume you're referring to my "terrible post" comment. Not the case. I meant it literally. For a first post in a game after RVS, where we're supposed to get information with which to read a person, that post was not up to snuff. It had reasonless accusations and reads. It provided SOME content, but nowhere near enough. That was my point.
I posted one post 13 posts before yours that analyzed everything up to that point. I hardly call that lurking. I call that "I work a lot and I will post when I can." Calling out my post count this early in the game, especially when Sepple has made one post with less content (not to mention iRebel) feels like mudslinging.
Unvote
Vote Fern
Also, the "inside joke" was posted to people who didn't know anything about it and spoke about your town game. Feels like you posted that for a different reason and are trying to cover it up by saying it was an inside joke.
That is absolutely not what he's doing. He mentioned your postcount. He did not "call it out" as you put it. You're strawmanning his argument pretty hard.
And what reason do you think he made the joke for?
You still don't have much content ITT. And you've ignored a few things. I wanna see answers from you soon.
I assume your reasons for this are the same as Prophys. So, the same question I threw at him: Why is mistaking GS as a hydra, and apperently knowing that prophy isn't one of them scummy? Where's the intent?
@Prophy: Can I have a full T/S list with reasons from you please? Thank you.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
I'm just gonna type here without the quotes, because not having a full-screen text editor anymore on this forum software is obnoxious.
@Sneaky/ITF, Regarding Proph:
1. I'm reading Antny's stances thusfar as being weaker than Proph apparently is, which is why I saw his attack on Antny as scummy.
2. This confused me, because otherwise I've been liking Proph's play so far this game. I'm not the best at reading Proph, but his tone seems similar to MM as compared to his limited stint in Xymande.
Now, as for Proph's points:
Quote from Proph »
- He voted a non-player in RVS
- His tone (more like a slow start) feels different than his other games, where he locked onto someone early-game
- His joke seemed contrived
-) As I've noted previously, I banter with Kosa all the time. People vote for mods in RVS. Hell, next game I'm in, I'm going to vote for Obama in RVS. It's RVS, and the fact that anybody is reading anything into RVS is laughable.
-) Kind of hard for me to develop good reads when I've been defending myself literally since the game started.
-) Seriously?
---------------
While we're on the subject, Sneaky, quote for me where I said "Strange" with regards to Proph's attack on me, or, indeed, where I used the verbiage "Strange" at all. I said he should know better, but I neither have any recollection of using the word "Strange" nor have you quoted where I said as much. That suggests that you're trying to put words in my mouth, which isn't a very +town thing to do. In fact, you didn't even just do it once, in #91 -- you also did it before in #73.
"There was something wild about godswood; even here, in the heart of the castle at the heart of the city, you could feel the old gods watching with a thousand unseeen eyes."
I was going to move my vote to Pizza but Arian's recent response is really bad.
Quote from SunglassesCoolPizza »
Self Conscience and then tries to go after sepple for his reads. Scummy.
Why are you calling lots of people "scummy" but not voting for them, instead choosing to go after someone else? That seems like a recurring trend in your psots.
Quote from fulcrum »
Nope. I'll explain it to you after the game if I actually get something out of it.
"WiFOM level" makes no sense to me..
Quote from killjoy »
And how does that help you tell alignment?
I clamp down hard and don't let go. Usually that person flips scum (EtR in Pleasantville)
I analyze people's reactions to my pressure and interactions with the flipped guy, if the person I'm clamping down on flips scum.
Quote from killjoy »
Unhelpful active lurkers are scummy, sure... but they're very low on my priority list to lynch (especially Day 1) because their lynch doesn't really tell us anything. All GS has done is declare that there is a reason for you being scum before he said anything in the thread (which, NTS: If Proph is scum, GS likely scum due to inside information) and declared that the scumteam is myself, you, and Arian (or Antny, I can't remember) without any other content. I'd rather lynch a scummy player with content, like interactions with other players that may be used to determine alignment.
How come you don't use your vote to pressure GS into posting, then?
Quote from killjoy »
Pizza had one post as of this post. Why is he among the scummiest players at this point in the game?
Did you read my post?
Quote from killjoy »
Actually... If you felt the question was legitimate... why didn't you answer it when GS asked you?
Because I'm ignoring GS.
Quote from killjoy »
Why was it useless?
Did you read my post?
Quote from killjoy »
@Prophy: Can I have a full T/S list with reasons from you please? Thank you.
-) As I've noted previously, I banter with Kosa all the time. People vote for mods in RVS. Hell, next game I'm in, I'm going to vote for Obama in RVS. It's RVS, and the fact that anybody is reading anything into RVS is laughable.
This is an entirely too self-conscious response, and me analyzing RVS is basically begin every game I don't replace into.
Quote from Arianrhod »
-) Kind of hard for me to develop good reads when I've been defending myself literally since the game started.
You can defend yourself and still look for scum. Heck, in Social Engineering Mafia II I ignored all pressure on me and just did that, and all my pressure dissipated.
Quote from Arianrhod »
-) Seriously?
..Yes?
Quote from Arianrhod »
While we're on the subject, Sneaky, quote for me where I said "Strange" with regards to Proph's attack on me, or, indeed, where I used the verbiage "Strange" at all. I said he should know better, but I neither have any recollection of using the word "Strange" nor have you quoted where I said as much. That suggests that you're trying to put words in my mouth, which isn't a very +town thing to do. In fact, you didn't even just do it once, in #91 -- you also did it before in #73.
Vote Sneaky
sneaky covered this but this is just nitpicking about semantics.
I want to lynch Arianrhod. I'm not getting the pressure on Feranath.
I'll debate this in the theory thread postgame if you want, but I am firmly of the opinion that RVS is random bull***** and is completely meaningless.
I cannot defend myself and still scumhunt. I acknowledge that other people may be able to, but I'm frankly just not that good.
You say the whole "Strange" thing is semantics. I say the whole ******* game of mafia is semantics. Semantics matter, and if Sneaky is going to get a free pass on that basis, despite used charged language to put words in my mouth to get me lynched, then I'm ******* out. You'll get nothing more from me until I cool down and/or until Sneaky is lynched.
RE: Prods - no one is due a prod for a few hours. Furthermore, I will not be handing them out precisely at 72 hours, rather, I will review the game in the later evenings EST and if anyone is due a prod at that time, I will issue then. There will be players due a prod tonight if they do not post prior to then.
I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
-Shrug-. I'm always cautious early on, and you're fully aware of that, Proph.
Really? I took a look at your other town games (Apocalypse, EoA) and they both featured a more proactive Arianrhod than what I've seen this game.
Comparing games, Arianrhoad posted once in the first 48 hours of EoA and didn't get really provide any early action (the mass house claim thing seemed to occupy the opening of the game though).
In Apocalypse he also wasn't very active in the first couple of days and the only posts were commenting on stuff that happened in the thread,
What point are trying make here exactly Proph?
Quote from Arianrhod »
Antny is reading like low-hanging fruit to me, so I'm not sure why you're pushing him.
How does Antny read like low-hanging fruit? He's certainly experienced.
Not only is this not true Proph, but if there was one player this game I know my experience it's you.
Quote from Arianrhod »
#54 reads like you're trying to offload pressure away from you, which is especially odd since in #39 you state that you are "unhappy that you didn't get a 5th vote on you." You're reading and acting like an enigma wrapped in an Iso wrapped in a taco this game.
Unvote, vote aryan rod.
The joke feels forced. In addition, I get the feeling that you think I'm scum. If so, why isn't your vote on me?
I'm sorry but is the main reason your voting because of a forced sounding joke because that's what it sounds like?
OMGUS! Unvote , Vote Prophy
Put that in your mouth and suck smoke it.
I don't like you. Too energetic at first.. and i see no OMGUS in Prophs vote. In fact, i see NO reason stated in prophs vote. This post seems to use humor to hide a vote that is scum on town.
@Killjoy - I was thinking that GS was baiting for reactions. Unlike you I can see potential town motivation behind her posting - to get out of RVS quickly and see if she can catch an opportunistic scum.
@Arian - I think your getting confused with the Generic/Rhand hydra which got randomed out the player list I think. Knowing where that sign up thread ended up would be nice.
@Killjoy - I do care about GS reasons regarding Proph, and I am waiting for her response to question.
It's strange how you are calling GS a she. Sadly, most people on forums assume people are male unless stated otherwise. I don't see this as a tell yet, but it could indicate conversation outside of this game I.E: a scumchat. I might be reaching on this point. :/
So, I'm still not understanding why you needed to jump on anyone. The game wasn't moving that slowly. It really hasn't moved slowly at all yet. So, why the need to jump on someone?
I like jumping on people.
You can read my recent games (Pleasantville, Social Engineering Mafia 2 as SEM-Romeo Lain head, Star Wars)
When I saw this post originally I saw classic rvs. Admittadly without knowing who GS really is I can't judge that (and I guess I can't try and deduce that since it's scummy, right Proph ) but I didn't believe Killjoy could really find this as scummy as he said (at least not until GS clarified that she was serious).
I've seen plenty of silly questions like this in rvs and again I am sceptical anyone not in their first game finds it to be real WIFOM rather than a joke. The over explanation also looks odd.
The rest is just banter AFAICT, but this post felt more like scum taking the bait than a legitimate town response.
I see confusion from killjoy regarding GS's actions - he didn't understand why GS could have a scumread on me before I had even posted, and so he jumped on it.
Question: Do you know what the purpose of "Are you scum?" is? It's a legitimate question - I'll give you that.
I want to see more from killjoy at this point. His RVS stuff gave me a bunch of mixed signals - I get the feeling that he actually believes GS is scum, but I don't like his backpedal.
Arian is very.. cautious, and coupled with the RVS vote I'd be willing to vote for him or Antny.
Ok. What was forced about it?
I'm asking you to extrapolate. If she doesn't respond (and as of this post still hasn't, btw) what will that do to your opinion of her?
Ok. But inconsistency =/= deception. Why does you being a part of a hydra, in his mind, make you scum? And what about him getting that wrong makes him scum?
Ok. This makes sense...
Why are you so sure GS is just baiting for responses? You seem to be operating under that assumption, but I see no hard evidence of that fact.
Why are you ignoring literally everything else he's said? He IS providing content. Read that and see how that does for ya.And while you're at it... provide some content yourself. Please.
And you are ignoring me. I'll ask again: Why has proph been scum since before he's even posted?
Wait, what's a legitamate question? Asking what the purpose of asking if someone's scum is, or asking if someone is scum? The wording of this is odd.
What about Arian seems cautious to you?
Also, I'm having trouble reading GS. She's just basically active lurking right now. She's not providing any real content.
Really? I took a look at your other town games (Apocalypse, EoA) and they both featured a more proactive Arianrhod than what I've seen this game.
How does Antny read like low-hanging fruit? He's certainly experienced.
Unvote, vote aryan rod.
The joke feels forced. In addition, I get the feeling that you think I'm scum. If so, why isn't your vote on me?
Apocalypse is a bad game to look at for me. It's the only game that I've ever had to replace out of, and it's coupled with the peculiarities of my role that game, which made me a bit bolder early (before I realized I'd have to replace). I'd suggest Majora's Mask as a better game for my town play.
My read on Antny is probably colored by the fact that he read as a very new player to me in Xymande. I want to say that he also said he was a newer played when asked shortly after he replaced in, but I can't go back and check on that right now.
I don't think you're scum. I just don't know what you are. I know you're a skilled enough player that if you were scum, you'd stay away from Antny, not engage him. You might've slipped, but that seems like a very rook mistake, and if that's the case, it'll come out eventually. For now, you're a null read in my book -- null in that you have +s and -s which are canceling each other out.
I think it was good thing, for forcing us out of RVS. I'm concerned that out of the three unexplained votes on Proph (four, if you count your own), you decided to tunnel on one. The weird thing is the post order:
There was a 10 hour gap between your vote for Proph (which came directly after GS's vote). Since the basis of your case was GS's naked vote, why did you jump on the wagon instead of questioning him/her on it then and there?
Why aren’t you still voting for GS, anyway?
I tried man, I really did.
So, are you scum?
I didn't question her then and there because I thought it was just so... bad I guess? She basically said "I'm voting Proph. No unvotes." and "Srsly I'm town gyz," which I saw and just... I couldn't believe she was being that obvious. I mean... was she new? Was this her first game of mafia that she didn't know not to do that as scum?
Obviously that's changed since I can't verify her playstyle. (Although I think I know who it MIGHT be, I doubt he would say if I guessed it right anyway). And I can't see him continuing this playstyle for this long.
And I'm not voting her anymore because I believe it's likely I misinterpreted her motives. I need more time to figure out what they might be.
You cite that there were 3 other unexplained votes on Proph... so why aren't you questioning the people who did them then?
What do you think of GS?
This post is useless. I understand Killjoy asking who GS was to get a better read on him, but speculating on it isn't going to do anything.
The question to Killjoy is obvious if you read his post; he saw something scummy so he ended RVS. Why else would someone end RVS?
Okay... where's the scum motivation? If Antny was scum, why would he fake not knowing that GS is not a hydra this game?
Or alternatively, why would scum be more likely to forget GS is not a hydra?
But town have a perfectly legitimate reason for asking; in order to better read the person. Especially given that Antny puts pressure on Killjoy in the same post, I can't see it as a real scumtell.
Why didn't you bring up Killjoy or Arianrod on this?
Proph clearly doesn't see Antny as a soft target (and Antny isn't really playing like a soft target either). And even if Proph did, skilled players go after soft targets all the time. You're being really WIFOMy in this reason for being unsure on Proph and it feels really forced.
Vote Arianrhod
I want you to specifically say what is +s and -s for you on Proph.
How bout a good ole sunglassesgo****yourself <3
Voting someone not in the game shows a lack of commitment to the game and very likely a fear of not wanting to get associated with scum buddies in RVS..
Can you please explain what that means?
What was the reason behind this vote?
I don't like you. Too energetic at first.. and i see no OMGUS in Prophs vote. In fact, i see NO reason stated in prophs vote. This post seems to use humor to hide a vote that is scum on town.
That was quick. Can you explain what made your vote serious after proph voted Killjoy?
This serious of posts makes me leanScum on GS. Asks proph if he's scum, but then goes on saying that he would basically kill proph if he had the votes, meaning the question is irrelevant. Then, on top of that, stating he is town and that all scums should be afraid does't help the fact that he just said he wanted to kill proph. Seems like he messed up and tried to cover it up with a succession of posts. I do not find your silliness helpful at all.
I looked at this question and actually really like it. Very good mindset.
I do like Killjoys comment to GS. I agree that he is being incredibly unhelpful. The second part of this quote is a deflection. Asking another question is not an answer.
You should share that reason then..
It's strange how you are calling GS a she. Sadly, most people on forums assume people are male unless stated otherwise. I don't see this as a tell yet, but it could indicate conversation outside of this game I.E: a scumchat. I might be reaching on this point. :/
/barn
Vote Antny
Anywho...
Oh no, you misunderstood. I'm OMGUSing Prophy in response to his vote on me. I didn't mean that HE OMGUSed. That was RVS, btw.
The reason for the nature of my answer was simple: I didn't think it a serious question. That's why I asked if it was serious.
I interpretted it as him asking why I was derailing an RVS wagon. Those typically dissolve when RVS ends anyway, so my thought was that he was doing the semi-standard RVS practice of "MOAR VOTES ON X" instead of literally asking that.
To answer the question, since I don't think I have yet: Derailing a wagon was not my intent. I wanted to put pressure on GS for reasons I explained.
I'm doing that too. It's because her persona is female (Graduating Schoolgirl) and her avvy is female. Also she's never corrected me. You're reaching for sure.
I assume your reasons for this are the same as Prophys. So, the same question I threw at him: Why is mistaking GS as a hydra, and apperently knowing that prophy isn't one of them scummy? Where's the intent?
OOG: When did hydras even become a thing? Before I left, I'm pretty sure they weren't allowed on this site. That's obviously changed.
GS has gone out of his way to focus attention on himself, then claims to have inside information on Proph. Very strange play, and I don't see town or scum motivation for doing this. Just gonna wait and see where this slot goes.
Killjoy reads town to me for pretty much the same reasons that have been stated already. He ended RVS, scumhunted despite not having played in a while, and talks in a way that looks like town motivation.
Arianrhod is a pretty null read for me. One one hand, he appears to be focused on responding to questions directed at him rather than scumhunting (#35 wasn't much of a question, and there was no followup), but on the other, his responses to said question look sincere.
Prophylaxis has a bunch of votes on him, but they're not backed by anything, so the fact that he isn't sweating it much reads town.
Antny is a light scumread for me. He speaks like he has inside information, and his responses seem to come from scenarios that have already reached a conclusion in his head.
Unvote
Vote Antny
Seppel's SE2 mafia is what I was referencing.
That's reasonable. As for the other unexplained votes on Proph, one of them was from me, another was from you (and I am questioning it, in a way), and the first two were within the bounds of normal RVS.
Unvote
Vote: Feranath
Artificial post feels artificial.
ro3's towngame confirmed.
It was a lonely feeling.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Official Vote Count 1.02
Prophylaxis (1) - Graduating Schoolgirl (#9)
Arianrhod (3) - Sneakyhomunculus (#10), Prophylaxis (#59), ITF (#63)
Sneakyhomunculus (1) - iRebel (#11)
Killjoy (1) - Antny223 (#21)
Antny223 (2) - SunglassesCoolpizza (#64), Feranath (#67)
Feranath (1) - Fulcrum (#68)
Not voting (3) - Seppel, Killjoy, Arianrhod
Moving forward, expect a vote count every day or two depending on the pace of the game. As always, please let me know if there are any errors.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
Well we saw different things then. Out of interest what is your opinion of GS's opening posts?
I believe "Are you scum?" was meant to gauge reactions from you and other players. What reason do believe a player would ask this?
I don't agree that we're gonna lynch Proph for not saying hi but I agree with the part about not liking Proph ignoring GS.
Asked and answered (you even quote the answer in this post )
I'm not really interested in hypothetical situations. I will see how the GS/Proph thing unfolds and comment on what happens.
/barn
Why are you so sure GS is just baiting for responses? You seem to be operating under that assumption, but I see no hard evidence of that fact. [/quote]
I can't be certain but the posts read like a player looking to make something happen to pull us out of rvs. In terms of a player's motivation you can't really ever have hard evidence in mafia.
That said I actually agree with the last three points of your post KillJoy and you do seem to be legitimately scumhunting. unvote
Comparing games, Arianrhoad posted once in the first 48 hours of EoA and didn't get really provide any early action (the mass house claim thing seemed to occupy the opening of the game though).
In Apocalypse he also wasn't very active in the first couple of days and the only posts were commenting on stuff that happened in the thread,
What point are trying make here exactly Proph?
Not only is this not true Proph, but if there was one player this game I know my experience it's you.
I'm sorry but is the main reason your voting because of a forced sounding joke because that's what it sounds like?
That's a strange reaction to an rvs vote.
A ton of needless talk on rvs votes here.
Graduating Schoolgirl
And yes you are obviously reaching.
So after all the other points you made on other players in the thread you decided to ignore all that and sheep Proph.
vote SunglassesCoolPizza
Sure
Walking Dead Mafia
Social Engineering Mafia II (as SEM-Victor/Juliet)
Tales of Xymande
What exactly are you referring to here?
Fen who were you in SE2?
I'll vote for any of those three Today.
Proph probably town.
Karn is scum.
Killjoy seems like he's faking.
Antny likely scum if Killjoy is scum. Antny not scum with Proph.
Anyone I didn't mention is scum for not being notable.
I like Fulcrum.
Vote Karn
How does not having played for a while correlate with desire to scumhunt?
Show us examples of these, please.
What parts of it do you feel are artificial and why?
Ok.
It's not going to though. GS has made that clear. So I ask again: GS is actively ignoring this game and is pursuing someone with no reason for doing so. How does GS's actions this game make you feel about her?
Oh, there was a place where you STARTED posting content? *eyeroll*
1. Faking how?
2. Who's Karn? I don't remember there being a Karn in this game.
3. So there are... *mathmathmath* 6 to 8 scum this game huh? Try harder please. This is a terrible first post.
Needlessly massaging your ego a bit here, but I was more pointing out that your scumhunting was effective despite your claims that you were "rusty". Putting in that kind of effort tells me you are town.
Killjoy's post did not read like that at all, and it seems like Antny was basing this argument off of his belief that GS was trying to bait out reactions. You can see that assumption here.
To expand on what I said before on GS, I don't think GS's intentions with his posts were really anything other than trying a unique approach to the game, and establishing a persona to play behind for the rest of the game. GS trying to bait out reactions seems unlikely, but that is where Antny's posts start from.
@Antny - I was Oscar.
@Feranath: I thought GS was baiting for reactions too, because Proph hardly posted at that point. I mean, I agree that Antny's vote for Killjoy wasn't the greatest, but I don't see how Antny had inside information, he just made a reasonable assumption about GS's posts.
How so?
I dunno, I've felt his questions and thought process have been genuine. The way he backed off GS read as cautious town, and he's been asking a lot of questions I want to ask. I don't know what you think he's faking.
I agree that Antny isn't scum with Proph, not sure about any correlations between Antny/Killjoy
GS == Karn? (only person I can think of that you could be referring to)
GS has just been tunneling on Proph, which especially if he really is Karn, I could totally see him doing as town or scum. Don't have a read on him yet.
Upon thinking about this, you're right - I wanted to pounce on anyone to end RVS/that slow early game period we were in, and Antny's inconsistency + "lust for information" seemed like the best thing to jump on.
It doesn't make him scum, but I thought it was scummy/questionable at first glance.
Asking if someone is scum is a legitimate question.
Covered this, in my earlier post.
From skimming your first few posts of your ISO in Majora's Mask, I feel like you gave a good rundown of what was happening in the thread and asked relevant questions. Same with your play in Apocalypse.
And now that Pleasantville ended, I feel like you did something similar in Pleasantville, with your "need to see more from dkings", hans question, and Rodemy evaluation.
In this game... hm. I've read through your recent posts and I think I want to wait a bit on you. You voted Kosa in RVS (which was scummy for the reasons sneaky stated) and I'm not a huge fan of your "enigma wrapped in an Iso wrapped in a taco this game" joke - it felt contrived. I think that your alignment will probably come out of the wash soon (I got a quick townread on you in Pleasantville, and I know the person behind GS can read you well as scum), so I'm fine waiting.
I won't unvote though; I'm frankly frustrated at this RVS because usually I can pounce on a scummy reaction to get the game going, and this is literally the first game in recent memory in which no one really did anything blatantly scummy in RVS. (See me pouncing on Antny with fairly weak reasoning, and you with OKish reasoning).
(And your read like me could be like you re: dkings in Pleasantville)
I'm not, but a couple of questions regarding this:
1. Why did you post this after:
2. I asked this question in Apocalypse (which I think you followed) and I can repost it here:
Were you next-leveling on the inital reasoning or.. something? Because that trick doesn't work if I know what the "safe" reaction to give, if I was scum.
Yeah man I want to declare killjoy town too but I'm hesitant to do so, since he backpedalled a bit on GS.
Why was his unvote of GS townie?
Answered above.
I don't know why I didn't bring up killjoy or Arian on this.
/barn
No reason.
It feels really weird how your post focuses on how Arian is scummy, how you don't like killjoy, how you don't like GS. Then you abandon all of that and vote Antny.
Why? (I mean, my original reasoning for voting Antny was pretty darn weak!)
To evaluate a self-conscious response (to be fair, I only saw it work in WWE Mafia and nowhere else)
Expected, if you know his identity.
Do you remember me ignoring Kilo as Golf, in Social Engineering?
Answered above.
I rank you as a "learning fast newbie" - I thought you were one of the better players in Social Engineering Mafia 2, and you were solid in Walking Dead. I don't think you're low hanging fruit at all.
The forced joke was part of it, and I didn't like how he voted Kosa in RVS.
I think I can agree with this, but I want Pizza to come back and respond to my points first.
I agree. I didn't expect people to barn my original reasoning for voting him.
OHHHH. Ok. I read that as "He's been gone a while, so he's less likely to scumhunt."
Ok. I see where you're coming from there. But, can town not also do that?
So, I'm still not understanding why you needed to jump on anyone. The game wasn't moving that slowly. It really hasn't moved slowly at all yet. So, why the need to jump on someone?
I don't agree. About 9001% of the time the person being asked just says "No" or some variation of it (I personally prefer "My ex seems to think so, but my role pm doesn't reflect it"). There really is no other valid answer to it.
Thus, it's just massively unproductive in my opinion.
If you've ever caught anyone with it, more power to ya. I can't see it happening very often though.
Hmm... Ok here's a question for you: Why do YOU think I took my vote off of GS? What do you think my reason for it was?
Wait... so you're saying your original reasoning for voting him was weak?
I like jumping on people.
You can read my recent games (Pleasantville, Social Engineering Mafia 2 as SEM-Romeo Lain head, Star Wars)
It can be used to produce a self-conscious response.
Do you want me to go into a (off-topic, but still interesting theory) treatise about it?
It felt weird. You unvote him "in absence of a more solid read on him" but the sentence previously before that was
Like, if he's continuing to be unhelpful (and you see no town motivation to be unhelpful), why isn't your vote still on him?
I didn't think it was weak at first, but people starting poking holes into it and I abandoned my scumread of Antny. I think that Arianrhod and Pizza are far more viable suspects.
UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls
RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty
UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
Mafia Stats
Feranath: I dislike repeating myself, so let's try this one more time. What does this mean?
Your thoughts on SunglassesCoolPizza would also be appreciated.
The whole thing. If I could give you a more precise answer, I wouldn't have used the word "feels."
1. Because you didn't answer it when it was asked by GS.
2. To find out what wifom level you're playing on, and get a baseline to judge the rest of your play off of.
I can't speak to why GS is playing as she is but I don't think GS's pursuing of Proph is entirely without reason. That said all I can offer at this point is speculation, and my feelings are that GS is trying a scumhunting method I don't truly understand. If GS really does shut up shop for the rest of the day then that's an issue. But she is one of the most active players until now and her play is far too attention grabbing to be active lurking IMO.
So you claim I have inside information and I'm already reaching conclusions originally and yet when pressed all you have is the fact I assumed GS was reaction baiting? And how is that assumption scummy anyway?
This sounds a lot like backpedaling to me. Still the two players who voted me after you look more suspect and it would be surprising if the whole scumteam jumped on me so for the time being I'm willing to beleive your town.
So why did you not initially take issue with Killjoy calling GS's post a "Unproductive, WIFOMy question... "?
Yeah, but I still remember you responding to my questions at some point (unless that was Lngrrr I never really went back and worked out when he was shifting). I still think there's a point where you should be willing to state an opinion on GS even if your going to refuse to answer her questions.
I assume your referring to this:
I don't have time to chase down Majora's Mask and Pleasantville so I'll have to leave this ATM, but I can't see anything different in Arian's play and the two games I compared so I am lost on the reasons for the your vote.
That's probably more accurate - though I was really punching above my weight in SEM-2 and it showed.
OK, but since you said it was only an OKish case, what do you make of the other people voting Arian right now?
Allow me to introduce myself. I am Feranath. I am called ro3 on certain parts of the internet, and I like that name, so I use it. Compared to Feranath, it's easier to type and easier to say, and I've grown accustomed to it. Feranath is the name I use for websites that have a little more roleplay to them such as a forum related to MTG. Call me whatever name you wish, but I'll be referring to myself as ro3.
I have played a single mafia game on this site: SEM 2. In that game, I (Oscar) was pretty much under scrutiny the entire game for any of my posts that involved me voting.
Essentially, that post was an inside joke for myself, and did not progress the game in any way.
SunglassesCoolPizza has made a single post in this thread. Lurking? Maybe. I think it's just a matter of when he has the time to make his posts, as he had just about the same content as 5 of my posts in one of his. Really, there is not too much to go off of with him.
Now Fulcrum, what I'm wondering about is why you didn't ask what my thoughts are on you. Well, I assume you avoided asking because you didn't want it to begin with, so I'll respect your wishes. Still, it's a little strange.
Quickly, though -- Proph, why are you taking issue with my RVS vote on Kosa? I banter with Kosa almost constantly...not sure where you're getting anything scummy out of it.
I've never played with either you or ITF before (to my knowledge), so I expect votes therefrom. If you two want to vote for me, that's fine. I've played with Proph before, though, so he should know better.
Ah, OK.
While that is all factually true, I actually wanted you to analyse the content of that post. Could you do that?
And, you've lost me again. Why would I want your opinion on me, and how is not asking for it strange?
For the first one, alright.
Can you explain the second one a bit more? The answer seems entirely too.. strange?
I'm moving off on you and moving onto people I find more viable to be scum.
I did not feel like I needed to delve into explaining why the question is legitimate at the time.
I never answered Kilo's questions - I towned it up until he declared me as a town read.
GS has never asked any questions to me except the predictable (and ultimately useless!) "are you scum"
I'm voting Arian because:
- He voted a non-player in RVS
- His tone (more like a slow start) feels different than his other games, where he locked onto someone early-game
- His joke seemed contrived
I'm convinced that Arian's alignment will come out in the wash, and I haven't heard back from Pizza yet so I'm leaving my vote on Arian.
OK.
I like them both (sneaky and ITF), though the game needs to move a bit more forward before I'm willing to lock some townreads on both of them. sneaky is a harder town read than ITF, though.
↓
Self Conscience and then tries to go after sepple for his reads. Scummy.
I posted one post 13 posts before yours that analyzed everything up to that point. I hardly call that lurking. I call that "I work a lot and I will post when I can." Calling out my post count this early in the game, especially when Sepple has made one post with less content (not to mention iRebel) feels like mudslinging.
Unvote
Vote Fern
Also, the "inside joke" was posted to people who didn't know anything about it and spoke about your town game. Feels like you posted that for a different reason and are trying to cover it up by saying it was an inside joke.
@Seppel: Can you explain your reasoning behind your reads?
Nope. I'll explain it to you after the game if I actually get something out of it.
That sounds like something you should be scumreading me for.
How was Killjoy's post self conscious?
And how does that help you tell alignment?
We can discuss it post game in the Theory thread.
Unhelpful active lurkers are scummy, sure... but they're very low on my priority list to lynch (especially Day 1) because their lynch doesn't really tell us anything. All GS has done is declare that there is a reason for you being scum before he said anything in the thread (which, NTS: If Proph is scum, GS likely scum due to inside information) and declared that the scumteam is myself, you, and Arian (or Antny, I can't remember) without any other content. I'd rather lynch a scummy player with content, like interactions with other players that may be used to determine alignment.
Pizza had one post as of this post. Why is he among the scummiest players at this point in the game?
Yes, but there's usually some part of it that particularly grabs your attention. The reads, the wordflow... something.
I don't see it as being artificial.
Hm. Not entirely unreasonable. It's true that scum don't like attention, and GS's play seems to enjoy attention.
So... you haven't posted for a while at this point... and this is all you have?
No other questions?
Why is this the only thing worth mentioning at this point?
Actually... If you felt the question was legitimate... why didn't you answer it when GS asked you?
Why was it useless?
I'll let you answer fulcrum's question before I explain why I wasn't being self-conscious.
As to trying to go after Seppel... I assume you're referring to my "terrible post" comment. Not the case. I meant it literally. For a first post in a game after RVS, where we're supposed to get information with which to read a person, that post was not up to snuff. It had reasonless accusations and reads. It provided SOME content, but nowhere near enough. That was my point.
That is absolutely not what he's doing. He mentioned your postcount. He did not "call it out" as you put it. You're strawmanning his argument pretty hard.
And what reason do you think he made the joke for?
You still don't have much content ITT. And you've ignored a few things. I wanna see answers from you soon.
Here's the one from me you haven't answered yet.
@Prophy: Can I have a full T/S list with reasons from you please? Thank you.
@Sneaky/ITF, Regarding Proph:
1. I'm reading Antny's stances thusfar as being weaker than Proph apparently is, which is why I saw his attack on Antny as scummy.
2. This confused me, because otherwise I've been liking Proph's play so far this game. I'm not the best at reading Proph, but his tone seems similar to MM as compared to his limited stint in Xymande.
Now, as for Proph's points:
-) As I've noted previously, I banter with Kosa all the time. People vote for mods in RVS. Hell, next game I'm in, I'm going to vote for Obama in RVS. It's RVS, and the fact that anybody is reading anything into RVS is laughable.
-) Kind of hard for me to develop good reads when I've been defending myself literally since the game started.
-) Seriously?
---------------
While we're on the subject, Sneaky, quote for me where I said "Strange" with regards to Proph's attack on me, or, indeed, where I used the verbiage "Strange" at all. I said he should know better, but I neither have any recollection of using the word "Strange" nor have you quoted where I said as much. That suggests that you're trying to put words in my mouth, which isn't a very +town thing to do. In fact, you didn't even just do it once, in #91 -- you also did it before in #73.
Vote Sneaky
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Official Vote Count - 1.03
Prophylaxis (1) - Graduating Schoolgirl (#9)
Arianrhod (3) - Sneakyhomunculus (#10), Prophylaxis (#59), ITF (#63)
Sneakyhomunculus (2) - iRebel (#11), Arianrhod (#101)
Antny 223 (1) - Feranath (#67)
Feranath (2) - Fulcrum (#68), SunglassesCoolpizza (#95)
SunglassesCoolpizza (1) - Antny223 (#72)
Not Voting - Seppel, Killjoy
As always, please let me know if there are any errors.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
Why are you calling lots of people "scummy" but not voting for them, instead choosing to go after someone else? That seems like a recurring trend in your psots.
"WiFOM level" makes no sense to me..
I clamp down hard and don't let go. Usually that person flips scum (EtR in Pleasantville)
I analyze people's reactions to my pressure and interactions with the flipped guy, if the person I'm clamping down on flips scum.
How come you don't use your vote to pressure GS into posting, then?
Did you read my post?
Because I'm ignoring GS.
Did you read my post?
Not yet. Maybe later.
Arian's response is terrible.
This is an entirely too self-conscious response, and me analyzing RVS is basically begin every game I don't replace into.
You can defend yourself and still look for scum. Heck, in Social Engineering Mafia II I ignored all pressure on me and just did that, and all my pressure dissipated.
..Yes?
sneaky covered this but this is just nitpicking about semantics.
I want to lynch Arianrhod. I'm not getting the pressure on Feranath.
@mod: Does Graduating Schoolgirl need prodding?
I cannot defend myself and still scumhunt. I acknowledge that other people may be able to, but I'm frankly just not that good.
You say the whole "Strange" thing is semantics. I say the whole ******* game of mafia is semantics. Semantics matter, and if Sneaky is going to get a free pass on that basis, despite used charged language to put words in my mouth to get me lynched, then I'm ******* out. You'll get nothing more from me until I cool down and/or until Sneaky is lynched.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
Vote Arianrhod
Choo choo.
UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls
RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty
UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
Mafia Stats
Killjoy and Antny highlight some very abnormal behavior and explanations by Proph.
Vote Prophylaxis