I'll debate this in the theory thread postgame if you want, but I am firmly of the opinion that RVS is random bull***** and is completely meaningless.
I cannot defend myself and still scumhunt. I acknowledge that other people may be able to, but I'm frankly just not that good.
You say the whole "Strange" thing is semantics. I say the whole ******* game of mafia is semantics. Semantics matter, and if Sneaky is going to get a free pass on that basis, despite used charged language to put words in my mouth to get me lynched, then I'm ******* out. You'll get nothing more from me until I cool down and/or until Sneaky is lynched.
btw arian deploying AtE is a meta scumtell for him.
I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Seriously, Arian, you have been asked several questions post-claim that I want to see answers for. If you can't be bothered, we're going to lynch you. Your claim means nothing to me.
Falseclaim/scum doc is possible. Catelyn I would expect to be a town role in the game, but I also wouldn't rule out her being a scum safeclaim.
Bleh, I dunno. I hate situations like this. Gut says he's scum trying to out the real doc, and I still don't see him putting in effort to scumhunt. Just unsure whether we should risk it.
The doctor definitely shouldn't counterclaim yet, loads of people still need to check in. I still wanna hear Proph's response to the stuff brought up against him. If it gets to the point where it looks like we aren't going to lynch Arianrhod, then the doc should counterclaim. If anyone else is Catelyn, they should just counterclaim now.
Quote from Seppel »
@ITF: What Karn said fits with my current suspicion of Proph.
GS's post was just an explanation of "Proph is ignoring me" though, which was basically GS's only content when you voted him. I would expect you to be more wary of what GS/Karn's opinions.
I don't have enough time at the moment for the post that people seem to want me to make. Most I can do is find a few seconds here and there for some minor comments / snipes at the moment. If you're going to lynch me, just ******* do it already.
@Fulcrum: two things. First off, we're 8 pages into the game and 2ish of that were RVS. I don't make reads quickly unless I think somebody slipped (see iRebel in Pleasantville), and I make town reads a lot easier than I do scum reads. Second, a lot of people have barely even posted at all. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to form a read on somebody who's posted like 6 posts the entire game. That's why I was calling for pressure on those people (which I think I was asked before, as well). If they aren't here and contributing, and they aren't replacing, then their tree needs to be shaken until something falls out.
@ITF: What Karn said fits with my current suspicion of Proph.
GS's post was just an explanation of "Proph is ignoring me" though, which was basically GS's only content when you voted him. I would expect you to be more wary of what GS/Karn's opinions.
You are dramatically oversimplifying what I was saying about proph.
I don't have enough time at the moment for the post that people seem to want me to make. Most I can do is find a few seconds here and there for some minor comments / snipes at the moment. If you're going to lynch me, just ******* do it already.
@Fulcrum: two things. First off, we're 8 pages into the game and 2ish of that were RVS. I don't make reads quickly unless I think somebody slipped (see iRebel in Pleasantville), and I make town reads a lot easier than I do scum reads. Second, a lot of people have barely even posted at all. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to form a read on somebody who's posted like 6 posts the entire game. That's why I was calling for pressure on those people (which I think I was asked before, as well). If they aren't here and contributing, and they aren't replacing, then their tree needs to be shaken until something falls out.
replace out.
Sneaky's post makes me nervous. It reads like coaching.
I don't have enough time at the moment for the post that people seem to want me to make. Most I can do is find a few seconds here and there for some minor comments / snipes at the moment. If you're going to lynch me, just ******* do it already.
@Fulcrum: two things. First off, we're 8 pages into the game and 2ish of that were RVS. I don't make reads quickly unless I think somebody slipped (see iRebel in Pleasantville), and I make town reads a lot easier than I do scum reads. Second, a lot of people have barely even posted at all. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to form a read on somebody who's posted like 6 posts the entire game. That's why I was calling for pressure on those people (which I think I was asked before, as well). If they aren't here and contributing, and they aren't replacing, then their tree needs to be shaken until something falls out.
The irony in this post is great.
You have to indeed ask questions and apply pressure to get reactions and find reads. But you have done nothing like that yourself and in fact you have been lashing out to people who put pressure on you.
You don't seem to understand that your tree has been shaking for probably eight pages now after some small pressure on you for the RVS post. And what fell out was a lazy T-S list, an expletive post and a doc claim.
While I am not entirely comfortable with lynching the claimed doc, I can't bring myself to unvote either, since you haven't given me any reason to trust you. For that the happen you shouldn't make posts like this:
If you are town and not posting actual content at this point you are DIRECTLY causing us to lose this game.
So, you. Got it.
I also attacked her when she said she wouldn't be posting any more, but that was at a time she claimed to not post until her scumteam was proven wrong, this is not the case anymore.
Earlier on you said you didn't get an opportunity to develop good reads because you had been defending yourself the whole time, but like I said before you haven't tried to scumhunt at all either. Whatever you may think of her positions, GS is now again posting and putting pressure on people. That's a lot more than he did before and a lot more than most players in this game (including yourself) are contributing.
So who are you to get smart about one of the few player who is actually asking questions?
What would also contribute to me changing my view of your is if you would actually answer the question I have already asked you two (or maybe three) times already:
Please explain what would be the discrepancy between my summary of your post and your actual post, and how I would have misrepresented you.
Arianrhod, I would like you to still answer this question.
This is sort of a loose read though. If Arian is actually scum and I'm wrong about one of the other two scumreads, remember this for later. Otherwise disregard.
You know, I've never been clear on what constitutes a counterclaim (beyond the obvious Doctor claim). Should a bodyguard counterclaim? What about a jailkeeper?
@ITF: What Karn said fits with my current suspicion of Proph.
GS's post was just an explanation of "Proph is ignoring me" though, which was basically GS's only content when you voted him. I would expect you to be more wary of what GS/Karn's opinions.
You are dramatically oversimplifying what I was saying about proph.
Wasn't meant as a dig towards you, sorry if it came off that way. But your primary point didn't change, yet Seppel's opinion if you did.
Might just be Seppel being Seppel though, he's hard to follow sometimes.
I don't have enough time at the moment for the post that people seem to want me to make. Most I can do is find a few seconds here and there for some minor comments / snipes at the moment. If you're going to lynch me, just ******* do it already.
@Fulcrum: two things. First off, we're 8 pages into the game and 2ish of that were RVS. I don't make reads quickly unless I think somebody slipped (see iRebel in Pleasantville), and I make town reads a lot easier than I do scum reads. Second, a lot of people have barely even posted at all. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to form a read on somebody who's posted like 6 posts the entire game. That's why I was calling for pressure on those people (which I think I was asked before, as well). If they aren't here and contributing, and they aren't replacing, then their tree needs to be shaken until something falls out.
replace out.
Sneaky's post makes me nervous. It reads like coaching.
I don't put much stock in coaching scumtells tbh, can't remember the last time I saw them actually catch scum. More often than not it's from people being cautious.
I'm totally pro-counterclaiming at this point, just FYI. If you're any sort of protective role you should strongly consider claiming at this point.
No, definitely not any sort of protective role. There could totally be a doc + other-protective-role in a mini, and I don't want people claiming and then us still not knowing what to do.
If you're a straight-up doctor (or a slight variation of doctor), then you should consider counter-claiming, definitely if it looks like we aren't going to lynch Arian. I just don't want a counterclaim before people respond to Arian's claim.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
You know, I've never been clear on what constitutes a counterclaim (beyond the obvious Doctor claim). Should a bodyguard counterclaim? What about a jailkeeper?
Yes and yes. From a setup design perspective a bodyguard and a doctor do not work well together. It's inelegant. Figure out why for yourself.
For a jailer, it's just a redundant role, which is also inelegant in a mini. I might expect to see these as a town doc and scum jailer, or perhaps the reverse.
@ITF: What Karn said fits with my current suspicion of Proph.
GS's post was just an explanation of "Proph is ignoring me" though, which was basically GS's only content when you voted him. I would expect you to be more wary of what GS/Karn's opinions.
You are dramatically oversimplifying what I was saying about proph.
Wasn't meant as a dig towards you, sorry if it came off that way. But your primary point didn't change, yet Seppel's opinion if you did.
Might just be Seppel being Seppel though, he's hard to follow sometimes.
I don't have enough time at the moment for the post that people seem to want me to make. Most I can do is find a few seconds here and there for some minor comments / snipes at the moment. If you're going to lynch me, just ******* do it already.
@Fulcrum: two things. First off, we're 8 pages into the game and 2ish of that were RVS. I don't make reads quickly unless I think somebody slipped (see iRebel in Pleasantville), and I make town reads a lot easier than I do scum reads. Second, a lot of people have barely even posted at all. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to form a read on somebody who's posted like 6 posts the entire game. That's why I was calling for pressure on those people (which I think I was asked before, as well). If they aren't here and contributing, and they aren't replacing, then their tree needs to be shaken until something falls out.
replace out.
Sneaky's post makes me nervous. It reads like coaching.
I don't put much stock in coaching scumtells tbh, can't remember the last time I saw them actually catch scum. More often than not it's from people being cautious.
I'm totally pro-counterclaiming at this point, just FYI. If you're any sort of protective role you should strongly consider claiming at this point.
No, definitely not any sort of protective role. There could totally be a doc + other-protective-role in a mini, and I don't want people claiming and then us still not knowing what to do.
If you're a straight-up doctor (or a slight variation of doctor), then you should consider counter-claiming, definitely if it looks like we aren't going to lynch Arian. I just don't want a counterclaim before people respond to Arian's claim.
1. ok i guess. do you think my content this game has been appropriate?
2. yeah, like I said, it's pretty loose. If sneaky is in endgame and arian has flipped scum, do consider it, but I'm not going to vote him over it.
3. No, any protective role should be counterclaiming. This is a 12-man game.
I'll speak clearly. "Winter is coming" is a phrase from The Game of Thrones books, otherwise known as A Song of Fire and Ice series. The words are those of House Stark and are often said of danger to come.
That danger is coming to you. I have noted something about your playstyle, and that is that you come off incredibly nervous as scum and this early in the game you reek of nervousness in your posts. Trying to push Proph without a clear reason early on, multi posting, putting yourself in the spotlight so as not to look like you were hiding in the back. And now that I know who you are I am even more confident.
I'm feeling nice today so i'll actually break this down:
I have noted something about your playstyle, and that is that you come off incredibly nervous as scum and this early in the game you reek of nervousness in your posts.
I don't come off as nervous as scum. However, since you can't prove the meta argument, I'd like you to prove that I'm nervous this game. Show me any example of nervousness this game. Even just one.
Trying to push Proph without a clear reason early on
Did you miss my breakdown? Everything about my Proph interaction was deliberate. I didn't explain what I was doing until recently, but I had a very clear reason literally from before the game began. Explain to me why this is even remotely scum-motivated.
multi posting
I do this more as town than as scum actually, but now that I have said that I may need to change things up in future games.
putting yourself in the spotlight so as not to look like you were hiding in the back
This is just absurd. Please explain your thought process more.
And now that I know who you are I am even more confident.
Shock I hate to tell you this but you're actually terrible at this game. Sorry. You literally described my town meta and told me that I'm scum because of it. This is not the first time somebody has done this and I doubt it will be the last.
Do something useful instead of trying to show off by "catching" me.
@GS: No I haven't had any real problems with your content. I would've liked it if you explained your reasoning for your reads earlier, but you eventually did which is good.
But on the doc, you're modgaming in a bad way. Yeah it's inelegant to have doc+bodyguard or doc+jailer, but it's not broken, and even experienced mods with experienced reviewers will let stuff like that through. This is a mini, not a basic. Mods are weird sometimes.
Misread your first post. I am a stupid donkey (or those two words equivalent) for not seeing it.
...I thought you were the certain mafia mod for the game you were signing up in to be a hydra in... Like I said, stupid donkey (equivalent of those two words).
Nothing really struck me as something I could pounce on other than Arian's vote on a player not in the game, so I was content to naked vote killjoy and see how it developed.
Once killjoy RVS voted me, I decided to stay silent and see if I could bait additional votes on me. This was so that I could have a wagon to perform voting analysis in, despite it being RVS. I also think that RVS wagons are a good place to break out of RVS - if a scum votes someone else when the wagon is ongoing, you can ask why they ignored the RVS wagon, and any votes on you made by scum allows you to perform voting analysis.
Unfortunately, my wagons stalled out on L-3, and I was very disappointed that killjoy broke RVS before my wagon had a chance to mature, hence this comment:
Killjoy, can you expand on #20, please -- specifically why you chose to end RVS at that point?
He never follows up on this. Ergh.
I hope we have a counterclaim.
I then vote Antny223 - I thought my reasoning was good at the time (it was certainly the most questionable thing I saw coming out of RVS) but a number of people (killjoy, ITF, and Antny himself), pointed out the bad logic in that (questionable =! scummy). When I realized this, I unvoted.
I'm also ignoring GS at this point, for reasons that I will elaborate on soon.
What then follows is a couple of responses from me that is basically pointing out what I see/people asking questions to me/me asking questions.
I feel good about everyone who voted Arianrhod :/
I still dislike Pizza's first post. As Antny pointed out, he's listing people as scummy but then dropping all of that to /barn my weak Antny vote.
sneaky feels more... pointed? Than in his last town game? I have a townread on him but the laser-focus on Arianrhod feels different than what I skimmed of MM2.
Quote from Antny223 »
This sounds a lot like backpedaling to me. Still the two players who voted me after you look more suspect and it would be surprising if the whole scumteam jumped on me so for the time being I'm willing to beleive your town.
Do you understand my progression, here?
----
This is frustrating. I'm reading these posts and getting the same conclusion about them that I got when I was actively playing the game - namely, a bunch of weak townreads/shaky stuff. I usually have a few scumreads, a couple of townreads I can bank, and a bunch of null stuff - not a bunch of light town/scum reads.
Quote from killjoy »
And how does that help you tell alignment?
???
What I usually do in the early game/Day 1 is pounce on the first scummy thing I see and don't let go - I'm a bulldog. I've been pouncing on stuff like that for a while now and only recently decided to clamp down my jaw harder because I just drew a game we were supposed to win because I made critical mistakes in endgame by not having confidence in my reads.
What do you mean by this question?
Quote from killjoy »
We can discuss it post game in the Theory thread.
Quote from killjoy »
Unhelpful active lurkers are scummy, sure... but they're very low on my priority list to lynch (especially Day 1) because their lynch doesn't really tell us anything. All GS has done is declare that there is a reason for you being scum before he said anything in the thread (which, NTS: If Proph is scum, GS likely scum due to inside information) and declared that the scumteam is myself, you, and Arian (or Antny, I can't remember) without any other content. I'd rather lynch a scummy player with content, like interactions with other players that may be used to determine alignment.
Votes =! lynch. You can you use votes for pressure and stuff.
If you think that GS was scummy when you exited RVS, why did you unvote him? If I'm stepping in your shoes, GS was the most scummiest person you saw coming out of RVS, and I would leave my vote on that person until they stopped active lurking/if they're still active lurking, call for other people to vote that person. That's why I'm hesitant to bank you as a townread - your posts have been fairly game-solvy (which is good) but that unvote was really weird.
Quote from killjoy »
Pizza had one post as of this post. Why is he among the scummiest players at this point in the game?
For the reasoning Antny stated - he's calling other players scummy but barned my weak vote on Antny.
Quote from killjoy »
Actually... If you felt the question was legitimate... why didn't you answer it when GS asked you?
Because I was ignoring GS at the time.
Quote from killjoy »
Why was it useless?
The question "are you scum" has a specific purpose - if the player posts anything other than a short "No", then that player has a self-conscious mindset. It's useless because Voxxicus, my mafia mentor, went over the question with me numerous times and I know the correct response.
Quote from killjoy »
@Prophy: Can I have a full T/S list with reasons from you please? Thank you.
I'll give you one at the end of this post.
And oh wow I realized I responded to all of that in #104.
----
Looking at Pizza's #113:
Quote from Pizza »
@Proph RE: calling people scummy and not voting them: i have my reasons for it. Try and see how people react to being called scummy. It can give you a lot of information. :] Why are you saying that, after i made two posts, that i call someone scummy, and then go after someone completely different. I did that in my first post /barning you (if you thought you made a good point, why are you calling me out for /barning it and voting your scumread?) and then I said why I was voting fern in my second. I don't see a pattern here..
I don't understand the second part, and calling other people scummy without voting them indicates noncommitalness.
And are you analyzing the information that you are getting when you call people scummy?
Quote from Pizza »
I am okay with either proph or Fern for the lynch toDay.
How passive.
Quote from Pizza »
I don't know how to feel about Seppel calling out other peoples observations on Proph instead of making his own observations. The laziness factors into it. He could be scum using other peoples wrong judgement to get proph mislynched, and saying he is lazy is a way to get out of having to seriously explain it.
He could also be town who saw good observations, and he is too busy to make his own.
Either way, very hard to read.
This is a textbook fencesit on Seppel.
Quote from iRebel »
#39 Proph : Why is it scum info-gathering to want to know whether or not he had played with GS before? Do you really believe there is no Town motivation for wanting to know the identity of someone that is deliberately cloaking themselves?
Scum like to engage in various forms of info-gathering. I covered this in my dkingsland mentor chat - it's one of my homebrew tells and I'm interested if I can get anywhere with it. I invoked this when voting for Antny - it reminded me of Kosa's "Whose gimmmick are you" from WWE Mafia (again, check mentor chat for where I based it on).
@iRebel
What posts gave you a townread on me, in that original stream-of-consciousness post? You only mention one question about me and you declare me as a townread.
Quote from Antny223 »
I'm still not seeing the Arianrhod case, and the wagon seems to have to come out very little.
Sunglasses Coolpizza's 95 is another bad post. In post 113 he suddenly retracts the case on me (now others have told him it's bad) Then he suddenly goes after Proph as soon Seppel lays down his vote (there's a touch of OMGUS mized in for good measure). More votes on Pizza please.
Do you want me to summarize the Arianrhod case? (mostly moot now that he's claimed doc, but I'm interested on how you didn't see the Arianrhod case)
Quote from ITF »
Just the way he did it, it looked natural. He didn't keep pushing it or abruptly back off, and I can see him reevaluating his initial read considering this is his first game in a while.
Look up earlier in this post for my problems with it.
Quote from ITF »
There had to have been some reason. Even if it's "you didn't notice them" or "you didn't feel like it".
It was just weird because that was half your case on Antny, and you didn't even mention Killjoy/Arian doing the exact same thing.
*shrug*
I was reading the thread before I posted my first (content) post and Antny stood out to me, so I voted him. I don't recall seeing killjoy or Arian do the exact same thing.
As for me taking back my read: Ant, would you rather me push a bad case on you? I took it back because others said it was bad. If i continued to push the case, I would have gotten ***** from people. Your use of the word suddenly is very odd seeing as i explained why I did what i did each time I did it. Don't try and say that I "suddenly" did something when I don't.. suddenly do something.
This is amazingly self-aware.
Quote from killjoy »
And you say you always do this? Since when? I don't recall this type of play from you.
Since I stopped sucking in mafia. (Ahaha, Boardgame Mafia)
(I think I started doing this in USUDM or Apocalypse, now that I'm looking back)
Quote from killjoy »
I have better things to do with my vote. Or rather I will very soon. I just need time to sit here and make the case.
OK.
Quote from killjoy »
Ignoring him... when you don't know his alignment?
Yes.
Quote from killjoy »
Ummmm... no? How about now?
Why do you need to wait until you make a big case on me to vote me?
Pizza has been thoroughly scummy, and a declaration of not to vote him doesn't cut it. Why don't you explain to the class?
--------------
Quote from GS »
- Prophy didn't say hi to me. We talk a lot about mafia offsite and he has expressed to me multiple times that he was looking forward to playing a game together where we are both town. So, playing on this rapport I led with what I did, expecting SOMETHING out of him. He chose to ignore me, which is when I asked him if he was scum. Here's the thing: Proph knows that I can read him very well. He knows that if he gets into a fight or argument with me that I will win (I have won every time he's been scum and I've been town). There's also just going to be an element of disappointment from him—we spent a lot of time talking about being town together, and he isn't town this game. Here's the deal: If proph were town I would expect him to be spending time trying to probe me and figure out if I am town because he wants to actually play with me. But he did zero of this. This tells me that he doesn't need to probe me and doesn't want to fight me, because he knows that if he draws my attention into a fight, he will lose. Therefore, he's scum trying to ignore me so that he doesn't need to deal with me.
Your very first post was a vote on me. I know you have access to the Social Engineering Mafia II Spectator Chat, where I expressly said in there:
Quote from Prophylaxis »
My new strategy as either alignment is to just completely ignore all votes on me until I reach L-2 or something - just keep scumhunting. Most of the time, if you do it right (keep scumhunting), a wagon never forms on you. If a wagon /does/ form on you then you at least get to catch opportunistic scum via wagon analysis.
I was ignoring you because you had voted me. I ignore all votes on me until I'm at L-2, because then I can dismantle my wagon + perform wagon analysis on it, which should net at least one opportunistic scum. Your posts were all tunneling on me, so I felt no need to address them. In addition, I know personally that you're very hard to read (and probably like the second most experienced player in the game), and you're the person I like to catch later on in the game - like Generic or Voxxicus, if you're scum.
I feel no need to sort you out early because I like to do my usual thing on Day 1, which is to poke and prod at other players. I also know that you'll take significantly more energy to sort out and I'd like to do that later on the game, when I have flips and stuff - plus, I know you're a slow starter during Day 1.
My god, I *really* want Arian to flip scum reading his recent posts. I can't comprehend such scumminess from him.
Quote from GS »
proph why have you been ignoring me instead of trying to figure out if we're on the same team?
You... I know you're a gimmick Graduating Schoolgirl and I'll respect that fact. But know that I know who you are you should know one thing:
Winter is coming.
Alright, so the reason why I voted Shockwave is that he's the easiest person to read. Both times he replaced in in a scum-slot he said "posting thoughts + read list" and failed to deliver. I voted him because he gave no actual indication of working on reading the thread - he just popped in and put some non-committal suspicion on GS (even fails to vote).
I like you but you are treading dangerously close into human garbage territory with posts like these.
Why are you trying to bait a hostile response from me, with these last few comments?
Can you clarify your read on Shockwave?
-----
Alright, I've finished digesting the thread.
Analysis and Certainty
Prophylaxis 10/10 obv
sneakyhomunculus (7/10) ITF (7/10) - bunching these in together because they've melding into one voice for me - namely the voice of reason, plus they've been pointing out bad things about Arianrhod that I generally agree with. I haven't seen anything scummy from them and I agree with them a lot.
Antny223 (5/10) - He hasn't done anything much scummy, and his pressure on Pizza seems.. consistent? I want to hear from him about Arianrhod, though.
fulcrum (5/10) - I want fulcrum to be town, but she's preyed on this in the past and knows how to manipulate me. I like her posts so far, but you can consider this a minor escape hatch/fencesit - I don't think I can read her well anymore.
iRebel (1/10) - I like how he cared about his questions, though I need to see more.
Graduating Schoolgirl (0/10) - explained earlier. I'm not comfortable sorting out GS until I have stuff to work with.
killjoy (0/10) Like I said - he's asking a bunch of questions and following up on them, but my gut is making feel twitchy about him.
Seppel (2/10) - Very minimal thread presence, and I dislike how he stated Arian as a town read yet he didn't do anything to prevent him from being run up to L-2.
SunglassesCoolPizza (6/10) - Consistently scummy responses.
Shockwave07 (6/10) - Explained above. If he's town he will give me something to work with, and be obvtown. If he's scum it will be very apparent soon.
Alright. I am in my townie groove now and I am UNLYNCHABLE. I will dictate toDay's lynch.
I forgot Arianrhod on my reads list. He is a self-resolving problem - if someone CCs he will be the lynch. If no one CCs then we have to go back to the drawing board, as much as I would like him to flip scum. Only Pizza has not posted since the claim and if he doesn't CC then Arian is the doctor.
I would like either Shockwave (if he doesn't bring me the good stuff) or Pizza to be the lynch toDay. I can outline the major points against them if anyone would like an explanation. Seppel is an option for later but I don't like to lynch strong players Day 1.
If anyone has an option other than those then please explain in your next post.
- iRebel needs to post more.
- I will need to go to ROUND TWO on killjoy (aka: another readthrough). He's provided tons of content yet he's still a question mark.
If scum are in my townpile I will re-evaluate once I get a flip. I'm comfortable with them for now but I stated something about this game about how my reads are weird.
On another subject: what do you think of Seppel right now?
At the moment I read him as Town. I haven't played with him before, so I'm not so used to his style. But so far, I understand most of his assessments and reads, although I don't necessary agree with all of them.
I can barely understand him myself at all. His play's been kinda erratic.
He needs to participate more IMO.
Nothing really struck me as something I could pounce on other than Arian's vote on a player not in the game, so I was content to naked vote killjoy and see how it developed.
Once killjoy RVS voted me, I decided to stay silent and see if I could bait additional votes on me. This was so that I could have a wagon to perform voting analysis in, despite it being RVS. I also think that RVS wagons are a good place to break out of RVS - if a scum votes someone else when the wagon is ongoing, you can ask why they ignored the RVS wagon, and any votes on you made by scum allows you to perform voting analysis.
I KINDA understand the RVS wagon logic. But, I don't see how staying silent would bait more votes onto you? Also, IDK how much the game has changed since I was here last, but I recall someone getting to L-2 only once ever. I'm not sure how you can reasonably expect that as a gambit target. Can you name some games where the RVS wagon got up to L-2 for me?
Also... wait... I could have sworn that when Pizza asked why you naked voted me here:
But, now you're saying that you were gambiting in RVS. It's obvious you lied, but what I want to know is what you hoped to gain from lying here? The gambit had already failed, so why not just explain your gambit here? Why wait till now?
I feel good about everyone who voted Arianrhod :/
Define 'good'?
Quote from killjoy »
And how does that help you tell alignment?
???
What I usually do in the early game/Day 1 is pounce on the first scummy thing I see and don't let go - I'm a bulldog. I've been pouncing on stuff like that for a while now and only recently decided to clamp down my jaw harder because I just drew a game we were supposed to win because I made critical mistakes in endgame by not having confidence in my reads.
What do you mean by this question?
Essentially the same answer you gave the last time. You didn't ask that question last time though.
Given that you answered this question twice, I assume you know what i mean by this question. So, why would you ask that? What part of the question confused you?
Quote from killjoy »
Unhelpful active lurkers are scummy, sure... but they're very low on my priority list to lynch (especially Day 1) because their lynch doesn't really tell us anything. All GS has done is declare that there is a reason for you being scum before he said anything in the thread (which, NTS: If Proph is scum, GS likely scum due to inside information) and declared that the scumteam is myself, you, and Arian (or Antny, I can't remember) without any other content. I'd rather lynch a scummy player with content, like interactions with other players that may be used to determine alignment.
Votes =! lynch. You can you use votes for pressure and stuff.
If you think that GS was scummy when you exited RVS, why did you unvote him? If I'm stepping in your shoes, GS was the most scummiest person you saw coming out of RVS, and I would leave my vote on that person until they stopped active lurking/if they're still active lurking, call for other people to vote that person. That's why I'm hesitant to bank you as a townread - your posts have been fairly game-solvy (which is good) but that unvote was really weird.
I don't vote the same way you do, apperently. I don't deny that votes can be used to pressure, but I prefer to use their content to pressure people. Sometimes I do vote when I see something scummy, but it's uncommon.
And I already explained why I unvoted him but I'll do it again... When I voted him I could see no townie reason for his posts that I called out. Then someone pointed out that he could be reaction baiting. Then I thought that town COULD be doing that, so now there was a town reason for him to do what he did. If I had realized that before I voted, I wouldn't have voted in the first place. So therefore, the reason for voting at all was no longer there, so I saw no reason to keep my vote on him.
Quote from killjoy »
Why was it useless?
The question "are you scum" has a specific purpose - if the player posts anything other than a short "No", then that player has a self-conscious mindset. It's useless because Voxxicus, my mafia mentor, went over the question with me numerous times and I know the correct response.
You didn't answer this before. You just said "Did you read my post?"
Why so much more helpful the second time around?
How passive.
How passive-aggressive of you, Prophy.
Quote from Pizza »
I don't know how to feel about Seppel calling out other peoples observations on Proph instead of making his own observations. The laziness factors into it. He could be scum using other peoples wrong judgement to get proph mislynched, and saying he is lazy is a way to get out of having to seriously explain it.
He could also be town who saw good observations, and he is too busy to make his own.
Either way, very hard to read.
This is a textbook fencesit on Seppel.
Is it? It reads as sincere to me. Both of those situations are viable.
I don't like how you call this 'textbook'. Feels like you're trying to qualify your statement.
@iRebel
What posts gave you a townread on me, in that original stream-of-consciousness post? You only mention one question about me and you declare me as a townread.
I'm also curious about this.
Since I stopped sucking in mafia. (Ahaha, Boardgame Mafia)
(I think I started doing this in USUDM or Apocalypse, now that I'm looking back)
I recall enjoying that game. I might be biased because I was scum and we won though.
Why do you need to wait until you make a big case on me to vote me?
I wanted to get my thoughts in there before I voted. I also am trying to get more votes on you.
Quote from GS »
- Prophy didn't say hi to me. We talk a lot about mafia offsite and he has expressed to me multiple times that he was looking forward to playing a game together where we are both town. So, playing on this rapport I led with what I did, expecting SOMETHING out of him. He chose to ignore me, which is when I asked him if he was scum. Here's the thing: Proph knows that I can read him very well. He knows that if he gets into a fight or argument with me that I will win (I have won every time he's been scum and I've been town). There's also just going to be an element of disappointment from him—we spent a lot of time talking about being town together, and he isn't town this game. Here's the deal: If proph were town I would expect him to be spending time trying to probe me and figure out if I am town because he wants to actually play with me. But he did zero of this. This tells me that he doesn't need to probe me and doesn't want to fight me, because he knows that if he draws my attention into a fight, he will lose. Therefore, he's scum trying to ignore me so that he doesn't need to deal with me.
Your very first post was a vote on me. I know you have access to the Social Engineering Mafia II Spectator Chat, where I expressly said in there:
Quote from Prophylaxis »
My new strategy as either alignment is to just completely ignore all votes on me until I reach L-2 or something - just keep scumhunting. Most of the time, if you do it right (keep scumhunting), a wagon never forms on you. If a wagon /does/ form on you then you at least get to catch opportunistic scum via wagon analysis.
I was ignoring you because you had voted me. I ignore all votes on me until I'm at L-2, because then I can dismantle my wagon + perform wagon analysis on it, which should net at least one opportunistic scum. Your posts were all tunneling on me, so I felt no need to address them. In addition, I know personally that you're very hard to read (and probably like the second most experienced player in the game), and you're the person I like to catch later on in the game - like Generic or Voxxicus, if you're scum.
I feel no need to sort you out early because I like to do my usual thing on Day 1, which is to poke and prod at other players. I also know that you'll take significantly more energy to sort out and I'd like to do that later on the game, when I have flips and stuff - plus, I know you're a slow starter during Day 1.
It's Iso, isn't it? I've been thinking that GS might be Iso. Is it Iso?
Analysis and Certainty
Prophylaxis 10/10 obv
sneakyhomunculus (7/10) ITF (7/10) - bunching these in together because they've melding into one voice for me - namely the voice of reason, plus they've been pointing out bad things about Arianrhod that I generally agree with. I haven't seen anything scummy from them and I agree with them a lot.
Antny223 (5/10) - He hasn't done anything much scummy, and his pressure on Pizza seems.. consistent? I want to hear from him about Arianrhod, though.
fulcrum (5/10) - I want fulcrum to be town, but she's preyed on this in the past and knows how to manipulate me. I like her posts so far, but you can consider this a minor escape hatch/fencesit - I don't think I can read her well anymore.
iRebel (1/10) - I like how he cared about his questions, though I need to see more.
Graduating Schoolgirl (0/10) - explained earlier. I'm not comfortable sorting out GS until I have stuff to work with.
killjoy (0/10) Like I said - he's asking a bunch of questions and following up on them, but my gut is making feel twitchy about him.
Seppel (2/10) - Very minimal thread presence, and I dislike how he stated Arian as a town read yet he didn't do anything to prevent him from being run up to L-2.
SunglassesCoolPizza (6/10) - Consistently scummy responses.
Shockwave07 (6/10) - Explained above. If he's town he will give me something to work with, and be obvtown. If he's scum it will be very apparent soon.
Alright. I am in my townie groove now and I am UNLYNCHABLE. I will dictate toDay's lynch.
What happens when we try? I'm down to try. How do you dictate the lynch?
Oh, and why the hell did you claim?
Also noting: "townie groove" seems really forced. I feel like this could have went without the world townie, and such verbiage seems strange to me.
I would like either Shockwave (if he doesn't bring me the good stuff) or Pizza to be the lynch toDay. I can outline the major points against them if anyone would like an explanation. Seppel is an option for later but I don't like to lynch strong players Day 1.
If anyone has an option other than those then please explain in your next post.
Shockwave has barely posted. So, can you outline what Fern did to gather your attention? And why did you never say anything about him before?
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
My read on you is that you're still Karn. Deal w/it.
Town Win % = 75%
Mafia Win % = 75%
Overall Win % = 75%
Completed Game Log
2014: Best Mafia Performance (Group)
2014: Most Improved Player
2014: Best Town Player
2014: Best Overall Player
Rereading and thoughts coming soon.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
Spider-Man Mafia 3 (Off-Site: NGA)
Metroid Mafia (Off-Site: Mafia Universe)
Depends, does you game feature a strong case on Ariarhod goes the game I'm reading doesn't.
I like that GS finally explained herself in 142.
A ton of nothing posts....
Killjoy is at least playing this game. Kudos.
Arianrhod has claimed Doc. Curious to see what the people on his wagon think of that...
I'll pretend to be the real doc if it helps.
So, you. Got it.
UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls
RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty
UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
Mafia Stats
Bleh, I dunno. I hate situations like this. Gut says he's scum trying to out the real doc, and I still don't see him putting in effort to scumhunt. Just unsure whether we should risk it.
The doctor definitely shouldn't counterclaim yet, loads of people still need to check in. I still wanna hear Proph's response to the stuff brought up against him. If it gets to the point where it looks like we aren't going to lynch Arianrhod, then the doc should counterclaim. If anyone else is Catelyn, they should just counterclaim now.
GS's post was just an explanation of "Proph is ignoring me" though, which was basically GS's only content when you voted him. I would expect you to be more wary of what GS/Karn's opinions.
I'm still up for lynching Arianrhod, especially if he's not going to answer my question.
@Fulcrum: two things. First off, we're 8 pages into the game and 2ish of that were RVS. I don't make reads quickly unless I think somebody slipped (see iRebel in Pleasantville), and I make town reads a lot easier than I do scum reads. Second, a lot of people have barely even posted at all. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to form a read on somebody who's posted like 6 posts the entire game. That's why I was calling for pressure on those people (which I think I was asked before, as well). If they aren't here and contributing, and they aren't replacing, then their tree needs to be shaken until something falls out.
replace out.
Sneaky's post makes me nervous. It reads like coaching.
This is sort of a loose read though. If Arian is actually scum and I'm wrong about one of the other two scumreads, remember this for later. Otherwise disregard.
In regards to Arian's claim, if there is a counterclaim we lynch, if there isn't a counterclaim we don't.
I'll try to reread this game tonight.
Wasn't meant as a dig towards you, sorry if it came off that way. But your primary point didn't change, yet Seppel's opinion if you did.
Might just be Seppel being Seppel though, he's hard to follow sometimes.
I don't put much stock in coaching scumtells tbh, can't remember the last time I saw them actually catch scum. More often than not it's from people being cautious.
No, definitely not any sort of protective role. There could totally be a doc + other-protective-role in a mini, and I don't want people claiming and then us still not knowing what to do.
If you're a straight-up doctor (or a slight variation of doctor), then you should consider counter-claiming, definitely if it looks like we aren't going to lynch Arian. I just don't want a counterclaim before people respond to Arian's claim.
Sorry for the triple post, dunno why I'm making so many typos...
You... I know you're a gimmick Graduating Schoolgirl and I'll respect that fact. But know that I know who you are you should know one thing:
Winter is coming.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
Spider-Man Mafia 3 (Off-Site: NGA)
Metroid Mafia (Off-Site: Mafia Universe)
All questions that are directed to me will be addressed once I do my reread.
I like you but you are treading dangerously close into human garbage territory with posts like these.
For a jailer, it's just a redundant role, which is also inelegant in a mini. I might expect to see these as a town doc and scum jailer, or perhaps the reverse.
1. ok i guess. do you think my content this game has been appropriate?
2. yeah, like I said, it's pretty loose. If sneaky is in endgame and arian has flipped scum, do consider it, but I'm not going to vote him over it.
3. No, any protective role should be counterclaiming. This is a 12-man game.
Protective roles are overrated and expendable.
who were your reviewers
I'll speak clearly. "Winter is coming" is a phrase from The Game of Thrones books, otherwise known as A Song of Fire and Ice series. The words are those of House Stark and are often said of danger to come.
That danger is coming to you. I have noted something about your playstyle, and that is that you come off incredibly nervous as scum and this early in the game you reek of nervousness in your posts. Trying to push Proph without a clear reason early on, multi posting, putting yourself in the spotlight so as not to look like you were hiding in the back. And now that I know who you are I am even more confident.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
Spider-Man Mafia 3 (Off-Site: NGA)
Metroid Mafia (Off-Site: Mafia Universe)
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
Spider-Man Mafia 3 (Off-Site: NGA)
Metroid Mafia (Off-Site: Mafia Universe)
I don't come off as nervous as scum. However, since you can't prove the meta argument, I'd like you to prove that I'm nervous this game. Show me any example of nervousness this game. Even just one.
Did you miss my breakdown? Everything about my Proph interaction was deliberate. I didn't explain what I was doing until recently, but I had a very clear reason literally from before the game began. Explain to me why this is even remotely scum-motivated.
I do this more as town than as scum actually, but now that I have said that I may need to change things up in future games.
This is just absurd. Please explain your thought process more.
Shock I hate to tell you this but you're actually terrible at this game. Sorry. You literally described my town meta and told me that I'm scum because of it. This is not the first time somebody has done this and I doubt it will be the last.
Do something useful instead of trying to show off by "catching" me.
Rereading now.
or better yet, don't reread and just answer the question I asked you a page back.
Proph, what are you trying to do here?
But on the doc, you're modgaming in a bad way. Yeah it's inelegant to have doc+bodyguard or doc+jailer, but it's not broken, and even experienced mods with experienced reviewers will let stuff like that through. This is a mini, not a basic. Mods are weird sometimes.
Misread your first post. I am a stupid donkey (or those two words equivalent) for not seeing it.
...I thought you were the certain mafia mod for the game you were signing up in to be a hydra in... Like I said, stupid donkey (equivalent of those two words).
Carry on.
But boy do I want to get back at him...
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
Spider-Man Mafia 3 (Off-Site: NGA)
Metroid Mafia (Off-Site: Mafia Universe)
Nothing really struck me as something I could pounce on other than Arian's vote on a player not in the game, so I was content to naked vote killjoy and see how it developed.
Once killjoy RVS voted me, I decided to stay silent and see if I could bait additional votes on me. This was so that I could have a wagon to perform voting analysis in, despite it being RVS. I also think that RVS wagons are a good place to break out of RVS - if a scum votes someone else when the wagon is ongoing, you can ask why they ignored the RVS wagon, and any votes on you made by scum allows you to perform voting analysis.
Unfortunately, my wagons stalled out on L-3, and I was very disappointed that killjoy broke RVS before my wagon had a chance to mature, hence this comment:
I'm also glad that fulcrum recognized it too.
:/
Is this really needed?
He never follows up on this. Ergh.
I hope we have a counterclaim.
I then vote Antny223 - I thought my reasoning was good at the time (it was certainly the most questionable thing I saw coming out of RVS) but a number of people (killjoy, ITF, and Antny himself), pointed out the bad logic in that (questionable =! scummy). When I realized this, I unvoted.
I'm also ignoring GS at this point, for reasons that I will elaborate on soon.
What then follows is a couple of responses from me that is basically pointing out what I see/people asking questions to me/me asking questions.
I feel good about everyone who voted Arianrhod :/
I still dislike Pizza's first post. As Antny pointed out, he's listing people as scummy but then dropping all of that to /barn my weak Antny vote.
sneaky feels more... pointed? Than in his last town game? I have a townread on him but the laser-focus on Arianrhod feels different than what I skimmed of MM2.
Do you understand my progression, here?
----
This is frustrating. I'm reading these posts and getting the same conclusion about them that I got when I was actively playing the game - namely, a bunch of weak townreads/shaky stuff. I usually have a few scumreads, a couple of townreads I can bank, and a bunch of null stuff - not a bunch of light town/scum reads.
???
What I usually do in the early game/Day 1 is pounce on the first scummy thing I see and don't let go - I'm a bulldog. I've been pouncing on stuff like that for a while now and only recently decided to clamp down my jaw harder because I just drew a game we were supposed to win because I made critical mistakes in endgame by not having confidence in my reads.
What do you mean by this question?
Votes =! lynch. You can you use votes for pressure and stuff.
If you think that GS was scummy when you exited RVS, why did you unvote him? If I'm stepping in your shoes, GS was the most scummiest person you saw coming out of RVS, and I would leave my vote on that person until they stopped active lurking/if they're still active lurking, call for other people to vote that person. That's why I'm hesitant to bank you as a townread - your posts have been fairly game-solvy (which is good) but that unvote was really weird.
For the reasoning Antny stated - he's calling other players scummy but barned my weak vote on Antny.
Because I was ignoring GS at the time.
The question "are you scum" has a specific purpose - if the player posts anything other than a short "No", then that player has a self-conscious mindset. It's useless because Voxxicus, my mafia mentor, went over the question with me numerous times and I know the correct response.
I'll give you one at the end of this post.
And oh wow I realized I responded to all of that in #104.
----
Looking at Pizza's #113:
I don't understand the second part, and calling other people scummy without voting them indicates noncommitalness.
And are you analyzing the information that you are getting when you call people scummy?
How passive.
This is a textbook fencesit on Seppel.
Scum like to engage in various forms of info-gathering. I covered this in my dkingsland mentor chat - it's one of my homebrew tells and I'm interested if I can get anywhere with it. I invoked this when voting for Antny - it reminded me of Kosa's "Whose gimmmick are you" from WWE Mafia (again, check mentor chat for where I based it on).
@iRebel
What posts gave you a townread on me, in that original stream-of-consciousness post? You only mention one question about me and you declare me as a townread.
Do you want me to summarize the Arianrhod case? (mostly moot now that he's claimed doc, but I'm interested on how you didn't see the Arianrhod case)
Look up earlier in this post for my problems with it.
*shrug*
I was reading the thread before I posted my first (content) post and Antny stood out to me, so I voted him. I don't recall seeing killjoy or Arian do the exact same thing.
This is amazingly self-aware.
Since I stopped sucking in mafia. (Ahaha, Boardgame Mafia)
(I think I started doing this in USUDM or Apocalypse, now that I'm looking back)
OK.
Yes.
Why do you need to wait until you make a big case on me to vote me?
Pizza has been thoroughly scummy, and a declaration of not to vote him doesn't cut it. Why don't you explain to the class?
--------------
Your very first post was a vote on me. I know you have access to the Social Engineering Mafia II Spectator Chat, where I expressly said in there:
I was ignoring you because you had voted me. I ignore all votes on me until I'm at L-2, because then I can dismantle my wagon + perform wagon analysis on it, which should net at least one opportunistic scum. Your posts were all tunneling on me, so I felt no need to address them. In addition, I know personally that you're very hard to read (and probably like the second most experienced player in the game), and you're the person I like to catch later on in the game - like Generic or Voxxicus, if you're scum.
I feel no need to sort you out early because I like to do my usual thing on Day 1, which is to poke and prod at other players. I also know that you'll take significantly more energy to sort out and I'd like to do that later on the game, when I have flips and stuff - plus, I know you're a slow starter during Day 1.
My god, I *really* want Arian to flip scum reading his recent posts. I can't comprehend such scumminess from him.
See above.
Alright, so the reason why I voted Shockwave is that he's the easiest person to read. Both times he replaced in in a scum-slot he said "posting thoughts + read list" and failed to deliver. I voted him because he gave no actual indication of working on reading the thread - he just popped in and put some non-committal suspicion on GS (even fails to vote).
Why are you trying to bait a hostile response from me, with these last few comments?
Can you clarify your read on Shockwave?
-----
Alright, I've finished digesting the thread.
Analysis and Certainty
Prophylaxis 10/10 obv
sneakyhomunculus (7/10) ITF (7/10) - bunching these in together because they've melding into one voice for me - namely the voice of reason, plus they've been pointing out bad things about Arianrhod that I generally agree with. I haven't seen anything scummy from them and I agree with them a lot.
Antny223 (5/10) - He hasn't done anything much scummy, and his pressure on Pizza seems.. consistent? I want to hear from him about Arianrhod, though.
fulcrum (5/10) - I want fulcrum to be town, but she's preyed on this in the past and knows how to manipulate me. I like her posts so far, but you can consider this a minor escape hatch/fencesit - I don't think I can read her well anymore.
iRebel (1/10) - I like how he cared about his questions, though I need to see more.
Graduating Schoolgirl (0/10) - explained earlier. I'm not comfortable sorting out GS until I have stuff to work with.
killjoy (0/10) Like I said - he's asking a bunch of questions and following up on them, but my gut is making feel twitchy about him.
Seppel (2/10) - Very minimal thread presence, and I dislike how he stated Arian as a town read yet he didn't do anything to prevent him from being run up to L-2.
SunglassesCoolPizza (6/10) - Consistently scummy responses.
Shockwave07 (6/10) - Explained above. If he's town he will give me something to work with, and be obvtown. If he's scum it will be very apparent soon.
I forgot Arianrhod on my reads list. He is a self-resolving problem - if someone CCs he will be the lynch. If no one CCs then we have to go back to the drawing board, as much as I would like him to flip scum. Only Pizza has not posted since the claim and if he doesn't CC then Arian is the doctor.
I would like either Shockwave (if he doesn't bring me the good stuff) or Pizza to be the lynch toDay. I can outline the major points against them if anyone would like an explanation. Seppel is an option for later but I don't like to lynch strong players Day 1.
If anyone has an option other than those then please explain in your next post.
- iRebel needs to post more.
- I will need to go to ROUND TWO on killjoy (aka: another readthrough). He's provided tons of content yet he's still a question mark.
If scum are in my townpile I will re-evaluate once I get a flip. I'm comfortable with them for now but I stated something about this game about how my reads are weird.
Welcome to the game, Shockwave.
I'm not sure enough on his alignment to want to lynch him today following a doc claim.
Fair enough I suppose.
I agree with this post. It fits with my theory on him.
I can barely understand him myself at all. His play's been kinda erratic.
He needs to participate more IMO.
I KINDA understand the RVS wagon logic. But, I don't see how staying silent would bait more votes onto you? Also, IDK how much the game has changed since I was here last, but I recall someone getting to L-2 only once ever. I'm not sure how you can reasonably expect that as a gambit target. Can you name some games where the RVS wagon got up to L-2 for me?
Also... wait... I could have sworn that when Pizza asked why you naked voted me here:
Your response was:
But, now you're saying that you were gambiting in RVS. It's obvious you lied, but what I want to know is what you hoped to gain from lying here? The gambit had already failed, so why not just explain your gambit here? Why wait till now?
Define 'good'?
Essentially the same answer you gave the last time. You didn't ask that question last time though.
Given that you answered this question twice, I assume you know what i mean by this question. So, why would you ask that? What part of the question confused you?
I don't vote the same way you do, apperently. I don't deny that votes can be used to pressure, but I prefer to use their content to pressure people. Sometimes I do vote when I see something scummy, but it's uncommon.
And I already explained why I unvoted him but I'll do it again... When I voted him I could see no townie reason for his posts that I called out. Then someone pointed out that he could be reaction baiting. Then I thought that town COULD be doing that, so now there was a town reason for him to do what he did. If I had realized that before I voted, I wouldn't have voted in the first place. So therefore, the reason for voting at all was no longer there, so I saw no reason to keep my vote on him.
You didn't answer this before. You just said "Did you read my post?"
Why so much more helpful the second time around?
How passive-aggressive of you, Prophy.
Is it? It reads as sincere to me. Both of those situations are viable.
I don't like how you call this 'textbook'. Feels like you're trying to qualify your statement.
I'm also curious about this.
I recall enjoying that game. I might be biased because I was scum and we won though.
I wanted to get my thoughts in there before I voted. I also am trying to get more votes on you.
It's Iso, isn't it? I've been thinking that GS might be Iso. Is it Iso?
Ok.
What happens when we try? I'm down to try. How do you dictate the lynch?
Oh, and why the hell did you claim?
Also noting: "townie groove" seems really forced. I feel like this could have went without the world townie, and such verbiage seems strange to me.
Shockwave has barely posted. So, can you outline what Fern did to gather your attention? And why did you never say anything about him before?