Also, how do you not see even that town players giving you the credit for their win?
Not me, not shockwave, but you UAL.
What we had to do was damage Limitation. Cut you loose before you do anything else to kill our chances.
Your shoddy play in the very opening of the game wasn't based on me, you can blame it on whatever events you want but it was still bad play. Getting copped based on your bad play was also your fault, as was explained to you by town, don't try to blame it on me. You didn't do any damage limitation, you got caught immediately because your play seemed scummy.
I made mistakes, I fess up to mine, pity you don't fess up to yours...
When a player is obvious scum. You bus them. It's the optimal play. Simple as that.
The point being that at that time I wasn't obvious anything, my own team was voting for me at the very beginning of a very long day. That's not how you win as mafia.
Again though, playing with a new group I fess up to my mistakes, unlike some...
Glad you could take something away from this game generic. I enjoy having you in my games because I feel our approaches are so different that it makes things interesting
You know, I'm not sure why we never went after Proph Night 2. I mean we had the Godfather "possible" role angle to play with, but the real Mafia godfather was having trouble keeping up with the pace of the game.
TK I halfway thought we should have gone after him (can't remember if I wrote it down in the QT). I think part of it was that town still had some doubts about him even with his claim.
And with Rhand, as town he is a power player even without a PR. I only had doubts of you being town by Day 3, I just couldn't think of a beneficial way to communicate this idea during the Day that would help my team.
You know, I'm not sure why we never went after Proph Night 2. I mean we had the Godfather "possible" role angle to play with, but the real Mafia godfather was having trouble keeping up with the pace of the game.
TK I halfway thought we should have gone after him (can't remember if I wrote it down in the QT). I think part of it was that town still had some doubts about him even with his claim.
You did shoot TK. It just failed.
I have no idea why you didn't shoot him after that.
wooo I was almost afraid TK was the last scum and we'd have to wade through a long pile of wifom to lynch him
Well the bright side is that since I was actually the doc, I'd have let you lynch me, since it would clear out the clutter and the town would win the next day.
Zionite, was ITF allowed to use the NK and his ability the last night when he was alone?
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She wants a ride on the pony, dude.
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Good job, guys. Sorry I was so quick to claim the investigation; I wanted to push Generic without it, but didn't really have time. If I had pushed harder, he would have claimed cop and I could have cc'd him. I was just jazzed that I had found (almost certainly) scum. I continue to excel at interaction analysis (yes, Generic, even when they weren't your interactions).
That's boring and gets you lynched if the game becomes scum-sided
I didn't crumb vig?
I tried to be as vanilla as possible, not staying under the radar.
From scumchat:
Quote from ITF »
It's very important that we block the vig tonight, otherwise we'll definitely lose to POE. It has to be one of Proph, Rhand, or Dagaen. Dagaen's reactions at the start of D3 didn't look like he was the vig to me, so it's between Proph and Rhand. My gut says Rhand, as he was more on Grizz at the end of D2, and somehow Proph's play strikes me as vanilla townie. I'm far from certain though.
I noticed you talked a lot about the vig in hypotheticals on Day 2/Day 3 (skim your ISO and Ctrl-F for the word "vig") and I think that's what led the scum to kill you.
Oh that was meant to make sure people knew I was not the vig
And with Rhand, as town he is a power player even without a PR. I only had doubts of you being town by Day 3, I just couldn't think of a beneficial way to communicate this idea during the Day that would help my team.
I'm also always a mislynch option as town because I take angles that aren't always the 'correct' ones.
I was hoping that me defending Generic with the framer thing D2 would tip you guys off.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Good job, guys. Sorry I was so quick to claim the investigation; I wanted to push Generic without it, but didn't really have time. If I had pushed harder, he would have claimed cop and I could have cc'd him. I was just jazzed that I had found (almost certainly) scum. I continue to excel at interaction analysis (yes, Generic, even when they weren't your interactions).
It was probably smart to out your result early as a 1-shot. If you tried to claim while his wagon lost steam or worse - after his lynch - it could have looked bad.
Thanks for running the game, Zionite. Two main things that I would like to say in closing.
First off, the mafia team did not play well. UA Lives provided far too much for the town to go on. I never really got caught back up after my V/LA, and forgot the second part of my role - I should have claimed Reviver, not vanilla. Generic drew too much attention. Shockwave was okay and ITF good once they subbed in, but by Day 3 it was already too late. Our choices of nightkills were also suspect.
The other thing, though, is that I believe this setup was unbalanced. Far too many of the town were confirmed too early. I disagree with one-shot cops in general, as there is really only one play for them - investigate early, then claim. Having both a town roleblocker and a scum one, and a pimp to confirm that, meant that our roleblocker didn't have a claim. The vigilante was confirmed as soon as he fired, and that didn't leave enough trees for the mafia to hide behind. I actually think that the mafia was dead on PoE by the time Day 2 started, and certainly after Night 2 there was no chance. The town just had too much confirmed information.
As support for this, please consider the scenario where the scum know what the setup is. They do not know who has what role, but they know what the non-scum players in the game are. Assuming that nobody was lying about their role during the game, what is left to claim? Bodyguard, Reviver, Watcher, or neutral Ascetic. Absolutely nothing confirmable. I feel like the town is very favoured to win that - and that's better for the scum than the game we did play.
I don't think the problem was the setup, at all. Even though it was open setup, you guys were afraid to kill TK because you didn't understand what the Watcher did. There was no reason for him to stay around. AE was a bad kill and having the scummiest member alive perform the N2 kill (hence my block) was a bad move.
I agree that the two 1-shot cops gave the town more than just a little edge, but I'm not sure even if those roles were absent our team would have won this one.
Things fell apart early and we where racing just to do damage control on a sinking ship. I half way wonder if those who bailed knew where the game was heading, but that's just something I can speculate, not actually know.
Sorry about not being around towards the end, if I had I might have been able to convince people to lynch TK or Lngrr, but I likely wouldn't survive the night. Once I saw the Rhand flip, I knew we didn't have a chance.
Speaking of which, the main reason I put in the kill for Rhand was this at the end of D1:
Quote from Proph »
I think UA is town but there's too many people invested in a UA lynch for me to switch to TK. If there's a vig I request him to shoot TK toNight.
I (correctly) guessed that Proph would have shot TK if he were the vig... but I hadn't read the thread closely enough to see that Green had already claimed to have blocked Proph N1. Once I saw that I was like .
Robroy actually wanted to kill Proph, but he didn't seem that sure, and he wasn't around when we needed to send in the kill, so I went with my gut. I feel a little bad now, wish Robroy and I had a chance to talk it out more .
You did shoot TK. It just failed.
I have no idea why you didn't shoot him after that.
By N3, we didn't have a chance unless we killed the Vig immediately, so we decided to take the risk. It was very likely that TK would protect Greensleeves that night, and we could kill TK the following night. Killing TK would've been a safer option, but it would have allowed the vig another shot, which we couldn't afford.
By N4, my only hope was to play the WIFOM game, if TK were NK'd the only others I could hope to get mislynched were Lngrr and maybe Hawk.
The other thing, though, is that I believe this setup was unbalanced. Far too many of the town were confirmed too early. I disagree with one-shot cops in general, as there is really only one play for them - investigate early, then claim. Having both a town roleblocker and a scum one, and a pimp to confirm that, meant that our roleblocker didn't have a claim. The vigilante was confirmed as soon as he fired, and that didn't leave enough trees for the mafia to hide behind. I actually think that the mafia was dead on PoE by the time Day 2 started, and certainly after Night 2 there was no chance. The town just had too much confirmed information.
To be fair, there were 5 mafia plus a survivor in a 17 person game. I think that's the highest ever on MTGS where there aren't multiple scum teams. The town had a lot of confirmables, but they also had to lynch correctly relatively consistently.
The night actions just fell in such a way that screwed over the scum, partly due to luck, partly due to solid town night actions, and partly due to some poor scum night actions. Not a single town power role died until the very end of the game, which isn't typical in a game where the scum have a role cop and a role blocker.
Your shoddy play in the very opening of the game wasn't based on me, you can blame it on whatever events you want but it was still bad play. Getting copped based on your bad play was also your fault, as was explained to you by town, don't try to blame it on me. You didn't do any damage limitation, you got caught immediately because your play seemed scummy.
I made mistakes, I fess up to mine, pity you don't fess up to yours...
The point being that at that time I wasn't obvious anything, my own team was voting for me at the very beginning of a very long day. That's not how you win as mafia.
Again though, playing with a new group I fess up to my mistakes, unlike some...
also proph should actually get town MVP.
Outdated Mafia Stats
Good show, MTGS towns
They hate us cause they ain't us.
TK I halfway thought we should have gone after him (can't remember if I wrote it down in the QT). I think part of it was that town still had some doubts about him even with his claim.
And with Rhand, as town he is a power player even without a PR. I only had doubts of you being town by Day 3, I just couldn't think of a beneficial way to communicate this idea during the Day that would help my team.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
Spider-Man Mafia 3 (Off-Site: NGA)
Metroid Mafia (Off-Site: Mafia Universe)
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Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
On another note, I like your new avatar/banner.
You did shoot TK. It just failed.
I have no idea why you didn't shoot him after that.
But guess they were trying to play WIFOM into a TK mislynch.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
Spider-Man Mafia 3 (Off-Site: NGA)
Metroid Mafia (Off-Site: Mafia Universe)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z29OVZLbZk
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Well the bright side is that since I was actually the doc, I'd have let you lynch me, since it would clear out the clutter and the town would win the next day.
Zionite, was ITF allowed to use the NK and his ability the last night when he was alone?
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First was Famous Historical Figures, a non-League Normal. Next four were all League games.
Another fun fact: two-thirds (22/33) of all lynches/vigs in the past five games have been on scum.
How can anyone not love Mako
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Kill shot: BB
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Oh that was meant to make sure people knew I was not the vig
I'm also always a mislynch option as town because I take angles that aren't always the 'correct' ones.
I was hoping that me defending Generic with the framer thing D2 would tip you guys off.
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Kill shot: BB
Issue with my shooting? Please visit my helpdesk and help me learn to aim!
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
It was probably smart to out your result early as a 1-shot. If you tried to claim while his wagon lost steam or worse - after his lynch - it could have looked bad.
First off, the mafia team did not play well. UA Lives provided far too much for the town to go on. I never really got caught back up after my V/LA, and forgot the second part of my role - I should have claimed Reviver, not vanilla. Generic drew too much attention. Shockwave was okay and ITF good once they subbed in, but by Day 3 it was already too late. Our choices of nightkills were also suspect.
The other thing, though, is that I believe this setup was unbalanced. Far too many of the town were confirmed too early. I disagree with one-shot cops in general, as there is really only one play for them - investigate early, then claim. Having both a town roleblocker and a scum one, and a pimp to confirm that, meant that our roleblocker didn't have a claim. The vigilante was confirmed as soon as he fired, and that didn't leave enough trees for the mafia to hide behind. I actually think that the mafia was dead on PoE by the time Day 2 started, and certainly after Night 2 there was no chance. The town just had too much confirmed information.
As support for this, please consider the scenario where the scum know what the setup is. They do not know who has what role, but they know what the non-scum players in the game are. Assuming that nobody was lying about their role during the game, what is left to claim? Bodyguard, Reviver, Watcher, or neutral Ascetic. Absolutely nothing confirmable. I feel like the town is very favoured to win that - and that's better for the scum than the game we did play.
But yeah I'd say the main problem was UAL.
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Outdated Mafia Stats
It's balancing that makes the game fair.
Things fell apart early and we where racing just to do damage control on a sinking ship. I half way wonder if those who bailed knew where the game was heading, but that's just something I can speculate, not actually know.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
Spider-Man Mafia 3 (Off-Site: NGA)
Metroid Mafia (Off-Site: Mafia Universe)
Sorry about not being around towards the end, if I had I might have been able to convince people to lynch TK or Lngrr, but I likely wouldn't survive the night. Once I saw the Rhand flip, I knew we didn't have a chance.
Speaking of which, the main reason I put in the kill for Rhand was this at the end of D1:
I (correctly) guessed that Proph would have shot TK if he were the vig... but I hadn't read the thread closely enough to see that Green had already claimed to have blocked Proph N1. Once I saw that I was like .
Robroy actually wanted to kill Proph, but he didn't seem that sure, and he wasn't around when we needed to send in the kill, so I went with my gut. I feel a little bad now, wish Robroy and I had a chance to talk it out more .
By N3, we didn't have a chance unless we killed the Vig immediately, so we decided to take the risk. It was very likely that TK would protect Greensleeves that night, and we could kill TK the following night. Killing TK would've been a safer option, but it would have allowed the vig another shot, which we couldn't afford.
By N4, my only hope was to play the WIFOM game, if TK were NK'd the only others I could hope to get mislynched were Lngrr and maybe Hawk.
To be fair, there were 5 mafia plus a survivor in a 17 person game. I think that's the highest ever on MTGS where there aren't multiple scum teams. The town had a lot of confirmables, but they also had to lynch correctly relatively consistently.
The night actions just fell in such a way that screwed over the scum, partly due to luck, partly due to solid town night actions, and partly due to some poor scum night actions. Not a single town power role died until the very end of the game, which isn't typical in a game where the scum have a role cop and a role blocker.
Nah, I couldn't use both. Otherwise I would have probably blocked you and killed Proph (or blocked Proph and kill Cantrip).