Woah... I leave for the night and come back to this.
First off: unvote
@Rodemy: OK, I am completely not following your vote logic at all here. I did not know that RVS had any hard and fast rules. On top of that, you said he made a response to a vote against him (From me.) I saw nothing other than a continuation of RVS in his "explanation" (Since it was an inside joke between us from the IRC games we literally got done playing just 20-30 minutes earlier.)
@DKing: rezombied basically asked the question I want to ask. Why did you find his RVS barrage suspicious in the first place? He certanly would not be the first player on this forum to spam the thread in that time period (Seppel and Iso being 2 prime examples.)
@Kosa: Eeeewww. You seem real quick to defend Rodemy yet ostracize him at the same time. Being at L-2 less than 24 hours in is never a good thing. I am personally reading Rodemy's missing of the vote count to be genuine, but only because his vote went up at pretty much the same time as yours did, and he may have actually seen only 3 votes and not 4.
Also, as Dan pointed out, there is not too much more to comment on at this point other than the super fast wagon. Yes, he could have possibly skipped the whole analyze the rest of the wagon part, but he is at least making an effort to contribute on his first post in the game.
Vote Kosa^2
The first sentence is a bit overboard. The "Eeewww" and bits against Kosa bother me because he's critiquing Kosa's play more than analyzing his alignment. (Proph: This actually comes from something in my mentor chat with Voxx. Not so useless compared to yours now, is it?) The way Tan goes from attacking Kosa from flip-flopping on Rodemy to defending dkings without actually bringing up dkings name is weird, and I'm not sure what to make of it.
Apologies in advance, I have a super busy work schedule today and tomorrow, so I will be pretty inactive until Wednesday.
Seriously, a wagon to L-2 less than 24 hours after the game starts?
It's called RVS.
And that is acceptable? Regardless of RVS votes, a wagon to L-2 in the first 24 hours of a game is highly suspect.
@Rezombied/Tanarin:
I have been in a couple games with Hans and have not seen him be active/spammy in RVS. If that is actually his style and I just haven't seen it, please correct me.
But yes, I would prefer to focus on something more concrete: an L-2 wagon this quickly into a game. Tanarin, you and I have seen this before:
Sir Karn (5) - hansanator, Cythare, Generic, swishh, dkingsland967
Of course Karn was town and Hans's alignment here is an unknown. Either way, I find it pretty hard to believe there isn't an opportunistic scum somewhere in the batch of votes on Hans.
Oh, don't be mistaken. I was not questioning the logic of looking at the wagon, I was more questioning why you find hans spamming scummy, yet only felt it needed to be commented about how he is acting.
Also, thanks for bringing up smalltown. I was having that eerie feeling I have been through this before.
My reaction was bad why? Because I'm not writing off players as too scummy to be scum? As I mentioned in my last post: I've seen this kind of wagon crop up this early before, fairly recently, and it was pushed by scum. How likely do you think it is that there are 5 town votes on a wagon that went to L-2 within the first ~25 posts of the game? Can you show me an example of a game where that has happened?
I've seen a L-1 wagon in RVS once, in a game where I was scum. My teammates were the first on the wagon, and the following four people were town. My team proceeded to lead lynches on the people on the end of the wagon. tl:dr We won. I can link it if you really want, but I'd prefer not to.
The issues with your post have been well covered but I'll summarize it for you: I feel like you were attempting to lynch easy targets.
I don't think he was ever implying that the last two votes had to be scum in that particular post, as much as saying that scum had to be on that wagon. Yes, I know his vote is currently on the last guy on the wagon, but that is also the easiest place to look for scum ATM, and considering it is still very early on D1, it is a decent place to start looking.
More defense of dkings, as he breaks the garcia rule (which I can't really be the critical of, considering my position). The word choice of "easiest" instead of "best" place to scumhunt is notable.
It seems strange that you would not want to vote anyone, concidering you were just in a game with a few of us.
Why would this matter in the slightest? Me voting someone would imply that I want to lynch him/her, which I don't.
See that is where you are wrong...
How many people actually want to LYNCH the people they vote for in rvs? Hell i've seen the mod voted once (i think that was me)...
SO.. try again please?
OK, I am going to ask you this: Are you asking these questions because you think he is legit scum, or because you are more annoyed by what he did. If it is the latter, I suggest you stop now, it is just wasting our time. If it is the former, I want you to explain EXACTLY why he is scum for his RVS actions (Pretend I am an absolute newb here with this one.)
Tan goes into the Rodemy/hans argument to ask a good question, proving that he is braver man than I.
@Tan/Hans: Since the two of you have been through this type of situation before, how do you propose we approach it?
I assume you mean the fact we had an ultra fast wagon within 24 hours of game start. I think we do need to at least look at Kosa's vote, as his I find to be the most suspicious of the bunch. Plus the fact he failed to unvote after noticing the lynch count is suspect as well. Instead he opted to make a post warning it was L-3 and then naked voted Rodemy.
@Tan/Cantrip: Confirm I'm not just making this up? 3 votes in RVS always sets off alarm bells.
I agree, 3 votes in a game this small is fishy but not totally unexpected. I also generally find that it is a null tell as far as if the third vote is from scum or town (Thus why I am not looking at Cythare ATM.)
I just don't see the scum motivation of being the first person to put any analysis on that wagon. It would've been much easier to either continue RVSing, or (moreso) jump on someone i.e. KosaKosa/Rodmey for their votes and/or the behavior immediately following them. Why put one's self on the radar in that situation when people were going to be adjusting to the game, inherently paying more attention?
I also agree with this fully. I mean, I guess scum could see it as a chance to earn town points, but then you would have to assume that scum feel the chance of forcing a risky mislynch outweighs the attention they would get Day 2.
Answers questions addressed to him, while he continues to pressure Kosa and defend dkings.
I would find Hans's early barrage of posts more suspect if not for this wagon.
So, someone did something that you find suspicious. And you decide not to question them about it because they have votes on them?
vote dkingsland967
Am I the only one that hates this post? I read DK's comment as saying normally he'd find Hans behaviour suspect, however, the number of votes is a mitigating circumstance and that mitigating circumstance takes precedent.
Not a fan of Kosa barning Rez on this either.
Like Dan's #38 post and Tan's #40 post as well.
o_O Others beat me to the draw , but again, why do you hate rezombied post over what I said a few posts later (As Kosa put, I did basically barn what he said and added a question of my own.)
I don't like this, at all. When I called him on it, Tan confirmed that he was only barning the question, not the vote. Tan should have been well aware that approving of a question and then supporting dkings, when rezombied had voted for dkings, did not constitute "basically barn[ing] what he said."
@Kosa: There is a difference between Tan and Rez. Tan actually asks him why he didn't like Hans RVS barrage; Rez doesn't. Rez jumps on and votes DK with a rhetorical question.
Oh, that is why huh? Not buying it. I am pretty sure rezombied was expecting a response to the question. I don't know how you read it as rhetorical.
I'm legitimately offended that you'd have the audacity to twist the fact I offered Hans a compliment, out side the game, for in game purposes. You want to call me scum for the "formulaic" reply? More power to you. But don't you dare try to call into question the sincerity of something I said to another player, OOG, in the only avenue I can without getting modkilled.
As much as you may hate it. Even though you put OOG in there, it is still in game relevant. It can easily be construed as buddying up with the player. It is a very common tactic used by scum on a weaker player in order to manipulate them.
As for the rest of your post: One, you can stop twisting my words any time now. Two, I didn't call Hans scum. What I did say is that, In Game, when someone's play style changes, it does warrant a little attention. Do you disagree?
Did you call him scum? No you didn't. Did you try to do a bit of fearmongering though? Yes you did. How you may ask? Well you are right that scum has the most to gain by altering their playstyle, but at the same time, newer players have a lot to gain as well by altering their playstyle. It allows them to have a bigger presence in the game. As of now, hans is pretty much the weakest player in terms of experience. He is still growing as a player and you have pretty much just said that his growth is possibly scummy.
As for the "formulaic" reply, it's a catch up post in a game with less than 100 posts. I dunno what you are looking for besides my thoughts. I gave them.
No but this looks like the classic compliment sandwich. You start with something good, then layer in your criticisms, then end it with something else good. It leaves the appearance to me that you are trying to make your post sound more pleasant and are concerned about your appearance in that respect.
Unvote, Vote iRebel
@Kosa: I'm sorry, but your post #33 reads as a veiled attempt to defend Rodemy. Especially since you seem to have had more criticism of dking than you did of Rodemy. And while yes I will agree it is an RVS wagon, it does not mean info can not be gleaned from said wagon. To discredit said evidence is asinine.
First off, I've never defended Rodemy. Have you never seen scum early bussing buddies? I just hated DKL's post as much as I hated Rodemy's, I wasn't defending him.
How funny would it be if that is exactly what you are doing?
Only reason I am unvoting you is the fact that your reaction to the criticisms against you appear town ATM.
Tan: Were you agreeing with Rez’ entire post (i.e. the question and the vote) or just the question? I read it as the latter, and can see how iRebel would do the same.
It was indeed the latter (just the question.) It was a question that needed to be asked.
@shockwave: I would really appreciate seeing your reads on the game before I decide if I am going to move my vote or not. The fact that you felt the need to basically backtrack on everything your predecessor said as opposed to posting your reads right away is off. One would think that there would be no need for doing such action if you were town.
@Arianhod: I don't know if I agree that shock HAS to be the lynch today, but he is the leading candidate for one as of now. I think once he posts his full reads on the game and we get some reactions, we can then make that decision.
@Kosa: Hmm... Nice catch on that flip of opinion from fulcrum. I need to re-read her last couple of posts again though before I say more (I am confused as to how to interpret the posts.)
1) Why did you feel the need to white knight iRebel?
2) Why not let his replacement float for himself?
3) Why the sudden position change on Kosa?
The questions feel like they're actually trying to figure me out.
With the exception of the barning Rez's post thing, I don't have any major problems with Tan. I'd actually put him as a slight town read, especially if his current pressure on Rodemy stems from what I'm thinking of.
@fulcrum - What do you mean by "I agree with both the out of game and in game notes"? You agree with him posting them or you agree with his stance? Do you disagree that the post was formulaic or do you just not see the scum motivation behind it?
I agree with his stance for the out of game and in game statements, and have no problem with him posting them. I also agree that the post was formulaic, and that that's scummy.
Relatedly, #110 also reads self-conscious to me. Leading with "You think you would actually see if the person who replaces in for a person who didn't put up much of a fight would defend themselves before posting this" seems unnecessary. While I agree that fulcrum should have waited, I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish (if anything) by stating it outright.
I'd vote for Shockwave, but if the votes on iRebel didn't reset, I think he's already at L-2.
----------
Right now I'm feeling a scum team of: Shockwave07, dkingsland, fulcrum
Every time I look at this I think: Said every scum with a scummate going down ever. If Shockwave is scum, I'm looking at Cythare next.
[QUOTE=fulcrum;/comments/12814708][QUOTE=Tanarin;/comments/12814701]]Surely though you can see letting him try and work his own way out of his lynch is better in the early game. While trying to save a person you truly believe is town is good later on. Way more info can be gathered not only from his reactions, but the reactions to his reactions.
That's helpful in one way, sure. My defense was helpful for me because it dragged Kosa and Arian out to defend their points.
OK, fair enough. You can see though why it feels so sudden though? You went from one post saying you liked what he said, to your next in game post saying you did not like him.
Ah, yeah I can see how it looked abrupt, even though that wasn't what I was saying.
As for my post 84 vs my post 114: Yes, it does seem like I contradicted myself a bit, but again, I agreed with the IDEA behind his post, not the fact that he is scummy for said lack of question (And thus voting him.)
I feel like I'm missing something here. You initially barned Rez's question, not the vote. When I read it, I saw Rez voting dkings over that question while you actually went out of your way to defend dkings. That doesn't seem like a full barn, so I don't see why iRebel not liking Rez's post and liking yours was a contradiction.
@fulcrum - What do you mean by "I agree with both the out of game and in game notes"? You agree with him posting them or you agree with his stance? Do you disagree that the post was formulaic or do you just not see the scum motivation behind it?
I agree with his stance for the out of game and in game statements, and have no problem with him posting them. I also agree that the post was formulaic, and that that's scummy.
But why? It seems weird to me that you feel the need to /barn an OOG opinion.
After you white-knight him, you immediately double back and call Shockwave07 scummy, and even include it in the same post.
Yep. Problem?
Was that not clear? Why did you feel the need to white-knight him if you come out of it disliking his replacement (whose posts you "dislike" came well before your white-knight post)? Why did you feel the need to white-knight him if you would have no more knowledge of iRebel's thought process than others? Do you not think that should be Shockwave's responsibility?
Also, how do you feel about dkingsland based on your current read of Shockwave07?
Relatedly, #110 also reads self-conscious to me. Leading with "You think you would actually see if the person who replaces in for a person who didn't put up much of a fight would defend themselves before posting this" seems unnecessary. While I agree that fulcrum should have waited, I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish (if anything) by stating it outright.
I'd vote for Shockwave, but if the votes on iRebel didn't reset, I think he's already at L-2.
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Right now I'm feeling a scum team of: Shockwave07, dkingsland, fulcrum
Every time I look at this I think: Said every scum with a scummate going down ever. If Shockwave is scum, I'm looking at Cythare next.
Please expand on this. What did every scumbuddy ever say? This just looks like a generalized comment and I'd love to hear specifics.
-------------
After Rodemy comes back, I'd love for you to say what you think Tanarin is talking about before Tanarin explains.
@Hans: How was iRebel different in this game from WWII?
Well, in WWII mafia, I caught him because he seemed a lot more aggressive than he was in that previous game that I had played with him when he was town (Marvel).
Here, I think that his play reflected his Marvel performance more than it reflected his WWII play. The sample size is minuscule, though, so it is not conclusive.
Private Mod Note
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"I'm a compulsive liar no matter what team I play on, but I'm trying to get better about it."
Look at that Rodemy said, and WHEN he said it. Then look at the post you just quoted. There is no reason for Rodemy to have such indecision when you put the pieces together.
Vote Rodemy
I'd like to hear his reasoning. Because I can't think of any that are town-motivated.
Look at that Rodemy said, and WHEN he said it. Then look at the post you just quoted. There is no reason for Rodemy to have such indecision when you put the pieces together.
Wait what?
Like.. i tried to see it as a scumrole or a townrole... and it could go either way..
Like mine is pretty obvious it's a townrole...
His i cant tell.
i saw no abilities that screamed town or screamed scum...
Now get your votes off me... i am not going to claim this early.....
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Thank you for choosing
Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
But why? It seems weird to me that you feel the need to /barn an OOG opinion.
I didn't "feel the need" to barn an out of game opinion. I agree that hans playstyle is an improvement, and that it may be a sign of scum. That's really all there is to it.
Was that not clear? Why did you feel the need to white-knight him if you come out of it disliking his replacement (whose posts you "dislike" came well before your white-knight post)? Why did you feel the need to white-knight him if you would have no more knowledge of iRebel's thought process than others? Do you not think that should be Shockwave's responsibility?
A big part of the reason I dislike Shockwave is because he didn't try to defend iRebel's actions, and instead set out to seperate himself from iRebel. The fact that some of iRebel's actions are defensible in my view, makes Shockwave's reaction worse.
Look at that Rodemy said, and WHEN he said it. Then look at the post you just quoted. There is no reason for Rodemy to have such indecision when you put the pieces together.
Wait what?
Like.. i tried to see it as a scumrole or a townrole... and it could go either way..
Like mine is pretty obvious it's a townrole...
His i cant tell.
i saw no abilities that screamed town or screamed scum...
Now get your votes off me... i am not going to claim this early.....
I'm still not certain that I see the original tell that everyone's talking about, but this post screams scum -- especially the third line about his role "being obvtown." The pressure is sensed, the flail begins.
I'm willing to vote Rodemy for that post alone, but I'll refrain since there's been a lot of votes quickly.
Look at that Rodemy said, and WHEN he said it. Then look at the post you just quoted. There is no reason for Rodemy to have such indecision when you put the pieces together.
Wait what?
Like.. i tried to see it as a scumrole or a townrole... and it could go either way..
Like mine is pretty obvious it's a townrole...
His i cant tell.
i saw no abilities that screamed town or screamed scum...
Now get your votes off me... i am not going to claim this early.....
I'm still not certain that I see the original tell that everyone's talking about, but this post screams scum -- especially the third line about his role "being obvtown." The pressure is sensed, the flail begins.
I'm willing to vote Rodemy for that post alone, but I'll refrain since there's been a lot of votes quickly.
@Mod: votecount, plox
I AM TRYING TO BREADCRUMB A ****ING IMPORTANT ROLE YOU ****ING IDIOT.. GOD DAMNIT,
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Thank you for choosing
Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
Rodemy: Alright, I'll explain. Here's what I think happened:
Shockwave gave the correct town win con as "I win when all the mafia have been eliminated." In the two other games I've been in on this site, the win con was always "You win when all non-town players are dead," implying that the town may have to eliminate both the main mafia team and a third party. The win con is this game refers to the mafia, implying that there is no third party. The fact that you completely ignored the win con when it should have told that Shockwave is town is suspicious.
The problem with that theory is scum may have been given fake flavor and the town win con to claim (as I was in my previous scum game on this site).
Oh, and by wrong answer, I mean your post screamed scum under pressure.
But why? It seems weird to me that you feel the need to /barn an OOG opinion.
I didn't "feel the need" to barn an out of game opinion. I agree that hans playstyle is an improvement, and that it may be a sign of scum. That's really all there is to it.
But it *isn't* an indication of scum by itself. It could also be an indication that he is improving as a player, and the way you nonchalantly agreed with it looked (and still looks) bad.
Was that not clear? Why did you feel the need to white-knight him if you come out of it disliking his replacement (whose posts you "dislike" came well before your white-knight post)? Why did you feel the need to white-knight him if you would have no more knowledge of iRebel's thought process than others? Do you not think that should be Shockwave's responsibility?
A big part of the reason I dislike Shockwave is because he didn't try to defend iRebel's actions, and instead set out to seperate himself from iRebel. The fact that some of iRebel's actions are defensible in my view, makes Shockwave's reaction worse.
As for why me, no one else was doing it.
Because it's no one else's job. Also, I don't get why you need to separate them. Shockwave replaced iRebel. They are the same role.
Also, how do you feel about dkingsland based on your current read of Shockwave07?
I actually feel pretty good about dkings on a gut level. Why would my read of Shockwave change that?
No, not that your read of Shockwave should change. I was curious to see if you'd remembered your previous linking of them here where you stated that Shockwave being scum would indicate dkingsland is scum too:
Second I actually agree with the votes against my slot. iRebel has earned a guarenteed RVS vote over this --------. Hell, I might through in a free 1-shot policy lynch over this. But I wonder how much he didn't read.
Did he seriously defend dKings as town after his wagon analysis and calling Hansanator likely town after the RVS quick wagon?! Especially after Fulcrum provided a counter-example to dKings quick wagon example talking about a scum started quick wagon on scum?!
That defense was dumb.
Plus that Rez-Tan dichotomy he thought he saw, this early in the game! The points that followed showed a clear progression of thoughts between Rez's and Tan's points of view.
(Placing this here in place of a long rant that can go on for pages and pages...)
I can't ask how much his reads were due to lack of reading, as he didn't give any in game indication before replacing out, but lucifer put me on a spit if I don't try to fight back into this!
Reads forthcoming, but will put this one here, Rodemy is unlikely scum in my mind despite his derpy L-2 vote. I've seen his nature. Post #60 comes across to me as a town mindset post.
Oh man, I just wrote that whole thing defending iRebel and now you’re making me want to lynch you for being overly critical of your predecessor. But hey, good news is if Shockwave is scum, that third paragraph says dkings is his scummate.
Rodemy: Alright, I'll explain. Here's what I think happened:
Shockwave gave the correct town win con as "I win when all the mafia have been eliminated." In the two other games I've been in on this site, the win con was always "You win when all non-town players are dead," implying that the town may have to eliminate both the main mafia team and a third party. The win con is this game refers to the mafia, implying that there is no third party. The fact that you completely ignored the win con when it should have told that Shockwave is town is suspicious.
The problem with that theory is scum may have been given fake flavor and the town win con to claim (as I was in my previous scum game on this site).
Oh, and by wrong answer, I mean your post screamed scum under pressure.
Heres the thing. i skipped mentioning that it could be a falseclaim.... and went straight to the role itself.
Idgaf if he claimed the actual win condition for town... it's a 50 50 chance that he got it right.
I would have said the same ****ing thing just as he did. I win when
I am looking at his role. And i am on the fence about it.
And can you guys point out any other games where the mod has used a different win condition other than the one provided? (for town)? Shockwave could be going off of other info..
Also: FFS.
Unvote
Vote Tan
If that isn't twisting my ****ing words then idk what is.
There is your counter wagon.
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Thank you for choosing
Rodemy Pizza
It’s not the best choice, but it’s a choice nonetheless
Rodemy: Alright, I'll explain. Here's what I think happened:
Shockwave gave the correct town win con as "I win when all the mafia have been eliminated." In the two other games I've been in on this site, the win con was always "You win when all non-town players are dead," implying that the town may have to eliminate both the main mafia team and a third party. The win con is this game refers to the mafia, implying that there is no third party. The fact that you completely ignored the win con when it should have told that Shockwave is town is suspicious.
The problem with that theory is scum may have been given fake flavor and the town win con to claim (as I was in my previous scum game on this site).
Oh, and by wrong answer, I mean your post screamed scum under pressure.
Heres the thing. i skipped mentioning that it could be a falseclaim.... and went straight to the role itself.
Idgaf if he claimed the actual win condition for town... it's a 50 50 chance that he got it right.
I would have said the same ****ing thing just as he did. I win when
I am looking at his role. And i am on the fence about it.
And can you guys point out any other games where the mod has used a different win condition other than the one provided? (for town)? Shockwave could be going off of other info..
Also: FFS.
Unvote
Vote Tan
If that isn't twisting my ****ing words then idk what is.
There is your counter wagon.
This is too little, too late, since you've already requested replacement, but the Town's win condition *isn't* posted in the original post, which is the point, and Shockwave's language for the wincon matches my role PM.
[
But it *isn't* an indication of scum by itself. It could also be an indication that he is improving as a player, and the way you nonchalantly agreed with it looked (and still looks) bad.
That would be why I said it may be indicative of scum.
Because it's no one else's job. Also, I don't get why you need to separate them. Shockwave replaced iRebel. They are the same role.
But they're different people, with different reactions to pressure. It's not like I can say "Oh yeah, I didn't like the way iRebel came in and attacked his predeccesor." That would be ridiculous.
Also, how do you feel about dkingsland based on your current read of Shockwave07?
I actually feel pretty good about dkings on a gut level. Why would my read of Shockwave change that?
No, not that your read of Shockwave should change. I was curious to see if you'd remembered your previous linking of them here where you stated that Shockwave being scum would indicate dkingsland is scum too:
Second I actually agree with the votes against my slot. iRebel has earned a guarenteed RVS vote over this --------. Hell, I might through in a free 1-shot policy lynch over this. But I wonder how much he didn't read.
Did he seriously defend dKings as town after his wagon analysis and calling Hansanator likely town after the RVS quick wagon?! Especially after Fulcrum provided a counter-example to dKings quick wagon example talking about a scum started quick wagon on scum?!
That defense was dumb.
Plus that Rez-Tan dichotomy he thought he saw, this early in the game! The points that followed showed a clear progression of thoughts between Rez's and Tan's points of view.
(Placing this here in place of a long rant that can go on for pages and pages...)
I can't ask how much his reads were due to lack of reading, as he didn't give any in game indication before replacing out, but lucifer put me on a spit if I don't try to fight back into this!
Reads forthcoming, but will put this one here, Rodemy is unlikely scum in my mind despite his derpy L-2 vote. I've seen his nature. Post #60 comes across to me as a town mindset post.
Oh man, I just wrote that whole thing defending iRebel and now you’re making me want to lynch you for being overly critical of your predecessor. But hey, good news is if Shockwave is scum, that third paragraph says dkings is his scummate.
What has changed for you since then?
Nothing. If Shockwave flips scum, I'd look closely at you and dkings. I'm not going to act on any connections before a flip.
Okay. I'm caught up. Question to everyone on my wagon: do you always read your role PM before commenting on a claim? Because I don't. I got mislynched in Futurama because I didn't bother to check my win condition when the neutral claimed.
This wagon is bad and you should all feel bad.
On to my reads:
Town
Prophylaxis (r. Cantripmancer)
Kosakosa
Rezombied
Tanarin
Lean town
Arianrhod
Shockwave07 (r. iRebel)
fulcrum
Lean scum
Cythare
Hansanator
Scum
dkingsland967
Ganderin_Dan
Rezombied, Kosa, Cantipmancer and Proph have all asked questions that I had noted down. This means they're looking at the game from the same mindset as I am.
Tanarin is clearly town with how he handled what happened with Shock's claim. Misguided, but town.
Arianrhod did quite a lot of fencesitting early game. His play improved when the game moved on and I liked his iRebel vote.
Shockwave is in lean town because of his wincon claim. If not for that, my vote would be on him now.
I disagree with a lot of Fulcrum's reads, but she's hunting scum and giving well-thought reasonings for her reads. She also knew what Tanarin thought he saw from Rodemy.
Cythare has been pretty lurky, and I think that is her scum meta. Not sure though. From my leaning scum reads, this one is the weakest.
Hansanator lacks all scumhunting in his posts and is very self-aware.
Gan_Dan bothers me. Proph has explained what is wrong with him: he goes from a very agressive tone to a very calm one and back. afaik, town!Gan_Dan isn't aggressive in his tone. I've seen him misrep Fulcrum as well.
Dkings is apologetic in his first post, which is unnessesarily self-aware. His early wagon analysis is just silly and he holds on to that for far too long.
I'm sure that he's scum because of this post:
Seems I disagree with dkings on this issue, but I can understand the train of thought behind his post in #27. @Dkings: Why didn't you just directly ask Cythare about the vote, instead of just commenting on it?
I don't think Cythare's vote was one of the most likely scum votes. The content was bleh/RVS, her vote was suspicious on position alone. Worth making note of? Sure. But worth pursuing at the time, in the face of scummier votes? Not as much.
Also, FWIW, this is my fourth game with Rodemy. He's very erratic, and behavioral rules of thumb pretty much go out the window with him. He's like Generic on coke. Your point on his self-consciousness is fair, though. I may be feeling some post-Apocalypse paranoia.
@fulcrum: That is about as close to naked as a vote can get.
My reaction was bad why? Because I'm not writing off players as too scummy to be scum? As I mentioned in my last post: I've seen this kind of wagon crop up this early before, fairly recently, and it was pushed by scum. How likely do you think it is that there are 5 town votes on a wagon that went to L-2 within the first ~25 posts of the game? Can you show me an example of a game where that has happened?
@Arian: You mentioned myself and Rodemy, but what do you think of Kosa?
Fulcrum does a near-naked vote, and instead of just pointing that out, Dkings gives reasoning himself for why Fulcrum voted. That's taking self-awareness to a whole new level.
The problem with that theory is scum may have been given fake flavor and the town win con to claim (as I was in my previous scum game on this site).
Oh, and by wrong answer, I mean your post screamed scum under pressure.
Given the theme of the game, I am working under the assumption scum were not given that much as far as falseclaims were concerned. The roles seem pretty generic enough where they may not even have them. Also, I have a feeling scum were not given the town win con given that the rules allow us to say word for word the wincon without threat of modkill. I can't see that rule existing unless the mod wanted us to use it to confirm players.
Saying all that, Shock is 100% town in my mind.
@Rhand: Yes, I ALWAYS read my role before commenting on claims. As you have pointed out, it is easy to get mislynched by failing to do so. I personally think it is a good habit to be reading your role PM at least every claim if not every week just to make sure things line up.
Expound upon that... weird hansanator read, and why he's so townie for you.
Also probably gan_dan as well.
@Cythare
Do scum usually buddy with one another?
@Shockwave07
And.. now seeing Shockwave's claim. Hm. Ehh, I'm wary of clearing him based on the town win condition thing because it's based on too many assumptions (see Iso's Battle Royale for how he got into trouble with that, when Void quoted his role PM IIRC) but I think the first ability (send messages) is pretty townie and provable.
You have been given plenty of time to catch up and I have no idea what your views are.
Please provide a full list of reads similar to why I did on your next post.
@Tanarin
It's a gut feeling. I don't have to back it up with evidence, nor do you need to address a case. The way you did the RVS vote and the Kosa^2 felt off to me.
I'm leaning scum on gan_dan because I remember him being more of a mediator, somewhat, in Dr. P. This is mostly based on memory (I didn't go back and check Dr. P) but he seems unusually more aggressive in this game ("Don't misrep me!") than in Dr. P, I feel.
Question to the rest of the town:
I really don't know what you are trying to get at, nor is there anything to defend/address IMO.
What do you make of the bolded?
@fulcrum
Thanks for taking the time to look through it, though I feel like your conclusion doesn't match your reasoning. As a summary:
1st post: ~weird -
2nd post: useless follow up -
3rd post: breaks garcia rule -
4th post: asks good question, brave +
5th post: Does Things =
6th post: "I don't like this" -
7th post: "I'm okay" =
8th post: "Null stuff" =
9th post: "Trying to figure me out" +
I see two +s, three =s, and thee -s. Yet you say you don't have any major problems with Tan, and you declare him as a slight town read. Can you explain this? I *might* be oversimplifying things with the use of equation signs but normally that should point to a ~nullish read.
I'm going to fencesit on the Rodemy wagon. I'm not a huge fan of the wagon going like "Hey, I know something." "What is it? (includes vote)", without attempting to analyze Rodemy's alignment. I mean I won't cry if it goes through but I don't really like the votes, mostly because of the stuff I said above.
Though:
@Rhand
Why did you make no attempt to analyze your wagon, instead dismissing it with a "You're bad and you should feel bad"?
Going to go somewhere completely different and:
Unvote, vote gan_dan
I doubt I can get a Tan lynch today, and he has displayed townie behavior when he followed up on his questions. I'd like to see gan_dan swing toDay.
Rezombied, Kosa, Cantipmancer and Proph have all asked questions that I had noted down. This means they're looking at the game from the same mindset as I am.
While I'm flattered that you can call me town after ~7 posts (everytime someone townreads me I feel like it's a sign of me improving after sucking hard in early 2013 + 2012), what questions specifically did you note down that I asked?
I feel like I know the answer to this one and it's not going to get me anywhere, though.
@Proph: Whenever I've seen a messenger role in a game, it's been scum/anti-town. It was a Mask in Majora, so I guess that one doesn't really truly count. It was scum in Ataghan, though, and I want to say there was one in Survival Horror on the scumteam, too. Can you provide examples of this type of role being town?
That being said, I'm willing to unvote for now. While it's possible that Shockwave just guessed correctly, it's equally possible (and Occam agrees) that he's actually town somehow.
I'll have more thoughts a bit later this morning -- just wanted to get that out while it was fresh in my mind after reading up.
@Proph: Whenever I've seen a messenger role in a game, it's been scum/anti-town. It was a Mask in Majora, so I guess that one doesn't really truly count. It was scum in Ataghan, though, and I want to say there was one in Survival Horror on the scumteam, too. Can you provide examples of this type of role being town?
That being said, I'm willing to unvote for now. While it's possible that Shockwave just guessed correctly, it's equally possible (and Occam agrees) that he's actually town somehow.
I'll have more thoughts a bit later this morning -- just wanted to get that out while it was fresh in my mind after reading up.
No, nothing of the sort in SH.
Uh, the obvious example is [REDACTED], but I'll go out on a limp and say Leanne White from Presidential Mafia (I think ImTehFairy's role?)
I've never seen Rodemy self-vote himself into hammer range before... oh wait, yes I have, in Apocalypse. As scum. He also had an early wagon on him in TMNT (as town) and DIDN'T self-vote. Hm.
Town
Prophylaxis (r. Cantripmancer)
Kosakosa
Rezombied
Tanarin
/snip
Rezombied, Kosa, Cantipmancer and Proph have all asked questions that I had noted down. This means they're looking at the game from the same mindset as I am.
Tanarin is clearly town with how he handled what happened with Shock's claim. Misguided, but town.
Rhand just names three obvtowns and the guy who primarily set up the trap his predecessor fell into, and /barns some uncited questions that he likes. I like that Tanarin is labeled as "misguided" here, since his handling of Shockwave's claim and the subsequent fallout is one of the two major factors pointing to the Rodemy/Rhand slot as scum.
Now he just throws suspicion at a couple players nobody is really talking about and conveniently zeroes in on me, who he knows has been an easy mislynch in a couple recent games because he has participated.
Dkings is apologetic in his first post, which is unnessesarily self-aware. His early wagon analysis is just silly and he holds on to that for far too long.
Now he's discrediting the early wagon anaylsis, something that several of his town reads (namely Tan and Proph) were in favor of. Why? Because it is the second major factor pointing to his slot as scum.
@fulcrum: That is about as close to naked as a vote can get.
My reaction was bad why? Because I'm not writing off players as too scummy to be scum? As I mentioned in my last post: I've seen this kind of wagon crop up this early before, fairly recently, and it was pushed by scum. How likely do you think it is that there are 5 town votes on a wagon that went to L-2 within the first ~25 posts of the game? Can you show me an example of a game where that has happened?
Fulcrum does a near-naked vote, and instead of just pointing that out, Dkings gives reasoning himself for why Fulcrum voted. That's taking self-awareness to a whole new level.
This is a pretty big misrep. The post in which fulcrum voted me set the stage for that response, considering it also contained this quote:
I actually like Rodemy and Kosa for being on the end of the RVS wagon. The votes weere so blatantly anti-town that I actually think they're likely town for lacking any sense of self-awareness.
/barning Proph left and right, discrediting anything that made Rodemy look scummy, and giving default scum reads with no reasoning on players with low content levels. We've got a live one here. My vote isn't going anywhere.
Also, /barn Tanarin on reading Role PMs. That is a really poor defense of Rodemy.
@Proph: Whenever I've seen a messenger role in a game, it's been scum/anti-town. It was a Mask in Majora, so I guess that one doesn't really truly count. It was scum in Ataghan, though, and I want to say there was one in Survival Horror on the scumteam, too. Can you provide examples of this type of role being town?
Arian, you should know of another recent example of this being a town ability.
Mostly wanted to see you extrapolate some more on some of your null reads. I have a town read on fulcrum and light town lean on Hans, so I left them off the list.
I'm paranoid about Cythare due to inactivity (Smalltown) and placement on the Hans wagon. I haven't seen anything content-wise, though.
I felt Rezombied's first post toward me bordered on predatory (admittedly there might be a little OMGUS in there), and his inactivity didn't mirror his town behavior in Futurama. He has picked it up, though, and his recent posts have me feeling a little better.
Cythare is a forevernull read for me, I feel - couldn't get a good read on him in House (he stuck null the /entire time/), and he seems to be giving off similar vibes this game.
@Proph: Whenever I've seen a messenger role in a game, it's been scum/anti-town. It was a Mask in Majora, so I guess that one doesn't really truly count. It was scum in Ataghan, though, and I want to say there was one in Survival Horror on the scumteam, too. Can you provide examples of this type of role being town?
Arian, you should know of another recent example of this being a town ability.
I'm seriously blanking on it. You're going to have to remind me.
My only real knowledge of this role's existence was from Ataghan, where I was in possession of it as scum. I didn't know that Ataghan's roles were randomized, though, so I guess there's that.
There've been neighborizors and masons all around me, of both alignments, but that isn't the same thing.
------
Since Survival Horror is in my mind now from trying to recall roles I've played with, I remember Dan lurking like a mofo in SH.
@Rhand: why do you say I've been fencesitty? I actually took a stance on something much quicker than I usually do in Day 1 scenarios, with the iRebel wagon. Your comment just feels like a cheap shot since I have a history of being more aloof on day 1.
Also, go more into your thoughts on the Shockwave/iRebel wagon, please.
Taking it with a bit of a grain of salt because Rodemy replaced into that game(Drury)(that or didn't post until post # 450, which seems unlikely), but like..his behavior there is NOTHING like it is here. He is much more focused and involved and not just a raging spaz. He pushes wagons on people, links to his points of reference, etc. He appears to actually be a decent scum player.
I'm completely willing to write Rodemy off as town at this point. And if swishh is scum, well, that sucks but I don't see it(and I looked at his Day 1 behavior closely over the last few rl days). It's either Proph or it's Generic.
Expound upon that... weird hansanator read, and why he's so townie for you.
I guess he just kind of slid up there as I moved people around. He's null right now. My gut wants him to be leaning town, but reading through his posts have almost no meaningful content.
@Proph: Whenever I've seen a messenger role in a game, it's been scum/anti-town. It was a Mask in Majora, so I guess that one doesn't really truly count. It was scum in Ataghan, though, and I want to say there was one in Survival Horror on the scumteam, too. Can you provide examples of this type of role being town?
--------
Arn is not a bad mod. He would never allow players to be confirmed town by quoting a part of their PM.
I went back to Arnmod's last game, Basic #73 (Disney Villains), and it had both town and scum wincon in the OP. Considering this game's important info in the OP such as rules and stuff is pretty much copypasted from Disney's, it's pretty safe to assume he left out of it on purpose. Therefore, it's also safe to assume scum are aware of town's wincon because they've probably received it directly from the mod. It makes much more sense than Arn screwing his game over a technicality.
That said, Shockwave's claimed role oozes townishness, and it's way too consistent to be a falseclaim. Plus, it's provable. Let time judge it.
Unvote
I don't like Tan much, but it's more of a gut feeling than anything else. There's also something very very wrong with fulcrum. Gotta get a reread.
I have no qualms in lynching Rhand, as something in the back of my head tells me Rodemy's outburst was a sham because reasons. But he's at L-2 and we ought to hear his claim. So Rhand, please claim.
Expound upon that... weird hansanator read, and why he's so townie for you.
I guess he just kind of slid up there as I moved people around. He's null right now. My gut wants him to be leaning town, but reading through his posts have almost no meaningful content.
So, as you switched people around you just left hans by the wayside?
Also you didn't answer the second part of the question.
Proph, I hate to point this out, but since the deed is already done, where did the quote in post 193 come from? I know you're quoting someone else, but the content he is talking about is from an on-going game, even if the flip is known.
Unvote
Vote Rodemy
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If we're talking about what I think we're talking about, I'd like to see Rodemy's explanation.
The first sentence is a bit overboard. The "Eeewww" and bits against Kosa bother me because he's critiquing Kosa's play more than analyzing his alignment. (Proph: This actually comes from something in my mentor chat with Voxx. Not so useless compared to yours now, is it?) The way Tan goes from attacking Kosa from flip-flopping on Rodemy to defending dkings without actually bringing up dkings name is weird, and I'm not sure what to make of it.
Kind of useless follow up.
More defense of dkings, as he breaks the garcia rule (which I can't really be the critical of, considering my position). The word choice of "easiest" instead of "best" place to scumhunt is notable.
Tan goes into the Rodemy/hans argument to ask a good question, proving that he is braver man than I.
Answers questions addressed to him, while he continues to pressure Kosa and defend dkings.
I don't like this, at all. When I called him on it, Tan confirmed that he was only barning the question, not the vote. Tan should have been well aware that approving of a question and then supporting dkings, when rezombied had voted for dkings, did not constitute "basically barn[ing] what he said."
I'm ok with the rest of this.
Null stuff.
The questions feel like they're actually trying to figure me out.
With the exception of the barning Rez's post thing, I don't have any major problems with Tan. I'd actually put him as a slight town read, especially if his current pressure on Rodemy stems from what I'm thinking of.
I agree with his stance for the out of game and in game statements, and have no problem with him posting them. I also agree that the post was formulaic, and that that's scummy.
Yep. Problem?
Every time I look at this I think: Said every scum with a scummate going down ever. If Shockwave is scum, I'm looking at Cythare next.
That's helpful in one way, sure. My defense was helpful for me because it dragged Kosa and Arian out to defend their points.
Ah, yeah I can see how it looked abrupt, even though that wasn't what I was saying.
I feel like I'm missing something here. You initially barned Rez's question, not the vote. When I read it, I saw Rez voting dkings over that question while you actually went out of your way to defend dkings. That doesn't seem like a full barn, so I don't see why iRebel not liking Rez's post and liking yours was a contradiction.
But why? It seems weird to me that you feel the need to /barn an OOG opinion.
Was that not clear? Why did you feel the need to white-knight him if you come out of it disliking his replacement (whose posts you "dislike" came well before your white-knight post)? Why did you feel the need to white-knight him if you would have no more knowledge of iRebel's thought process than others? Do you not think that should be Shockwave's responsibility?
Also, how do you feel about dkingsland based on your current read of Shockwave07?
Please expand on this. What did every scumbuddy ever say? This just looks like a generalized comment and I'd love to hear specifics.
-------------
After Rodemy comes back, I'd love for you to say what you think Tanarin is talking about before Tanarin explains.
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Well, in WWII mafia, I caught him because he seemed a lot more aggressive than he was in that previous game that I had played with him when he was town (Marvel).
Here, I think that his play reflected his Marvel performance more than it reflected his WWII play. The sample size is minuscule, though, so it is not conclusive.
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
Vote Rodemy
I'd like to hear his reasoning. Because I can't think of any that are town-motivated.
-----
For what, exactly?
Wait what?
Like.. i tried to see it as a scumrole or a townrole... and it could go either way..
Like mine is pretty obvious it's a townrole...
His i cant tell.
i saw no abilities that screamed town or screamed scum...
Now get your votes off me... i am not going to claim this early.....
I didn't "feel the need" to barn an out of game opinion. I agree that hans playstyle is an improvement, and that it may be a sign of scum. That's really all there is to it.
A big part of the reason I dislike Shockwave is because he didn't try to defend iRebel's actions, and instead set out to seperate himself from iRebel. The fact that some of iRebel's actions are defensible in my view, makes Shockwave's reaction worse.
As for why me, no one else was doing it.
I actually feel pretty good about dkings on a gut level. Why would my read of Shockwave change that?
It felt like a combination of a bus and a setup for a mislynch toMorrow.
Wrong answer.
Vote Rodemy
Cythare: Would you like me to explain it now?
How is that the "wrong answer?"
I AM UNCERTAIN HOW TO FEEL ABOUT HIS CLAIM!? SINCE WHEN THE **** WAS THAT A GOD DAMN SCUMMY THING TO SAY!??
I'm still not certain that I see the original tell that everyone's talking about, but this post screams scum -- especially the third line about his role "being obvtown." The pressure is sensed, the flail begins.
I'm willing to vote Rodemy for that post alone, but I'll refrain since there's been a lot of votes quickly.
@Mod: votecount, plox
I AM TRYING TO BREADCRUMB A ****ING IMPORTANT ROLE YOU ****ING IDIOT.. GOD DAMNIT,
Shockwave gave the correct town win con as "I win when all the mafia have been eliminated." In the two other games I've been in on this site, the win con was always "You win when all non-town players are dead," implying that the town may have to eliminate both the main mafia team and a third party. The win con is this game refers to the mafia, implying that there is no third party. The fact that you completely ignored the win con when it should have told that Shockwave is town is suspicious.
The problem with that theory is scum may have been given fake flavor and the town win con to claim (as I was in my previous scum game on this site).
Oh, and by wrong answer, I mean your post screamed scum under pressure.
Yes or no?
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Spider-Man Mafia 3 (Off-Site: NGA)
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Shockwave, the answer was obviously no.
Nath'd and questions purpose is nulled.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
Spider-Man Mafia 3 (Off-Site: NGA)
Metroid Mafia (Off-Site: Mafia Universe)
Unvote
Vote Rodemy
I'm not posting anymore until this day ends. lynch me idgaf.
My vote will stay on me.
I posted a Oh hey, he claimed.. but i can't ****ing tell what the hell he is post...
Like. That is a role that can be both scum and town.... sooo.... I am on the fence about it.
AND YOU GO AFTER ME FOR THAT?
Lynch me. See what you lose. Go ahead.
But it *isn't* an indication of scum by itself. It could also be an indication that he is improving as a player, and the way you nonchalantly agreed with it looked (and still looks) bad.
Because it's no one else's job. Also, I don't get why you need to separate them. Shockwave replaced iRebel. They are the same role.
No, not that your read of Shockwave should change. I was curious to see if you'd remembered your previous linking of them here where you stated that Shockwave being scum would indicate dkingsland is scum too:
What has changed for you since then?
So, because I stated who my scumreads are, I'm scum? I'm interested in what about it felt like a bus.
Sure. Part of me wants to wait to see if others get it, but it probably won't really add much value since only one person can explain it anyways.
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Heres the thing. i skipped mentioning that it could be a falseclaim.... and went straight to the role itself.
Idgaf if he claimed the actual win condition for town... it's a 50 50 chance that he got it right.
I would have said the same ****ing thing just as he did. I win when
I am looking at his role. And i am on the fence about it.
And can you guys point out any other games where the mod has used a different win condition other than the one provided? (for town)? Shockwave could be going off of other info..
Also: FFS.
Unvote
Vote Tan
If that isn't twisting my ****ing words then idk what is.
There is your counter wagon.
After he answered my win-con question correctly. And not unvoting, even though you weren't sure.
/replace
Let someone else have a go at this ****
Holy... That was close to a self hammer there. L-1 by my count, before he went after Tan.
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
Spider-Man Mafia 3 (Off-Site: NGA)
Metroid Mafia (Off-Site: Mafia Universe)
What did Tan say that is twisting your words? I don't see it.
I'll see if I can offer my thoughts on the recent events soon.
Rodemy (5): dkingsland967; Tanarin; Cythare; Rezombied; fulcrum
Kosakosa (2): Ganderin_Dan; Shockwave07
Shockwave07 (3): Kosakosa; Arianrhod; Prophylaxis
Tanarin (1): Rodemy
Not Voting (1): Hansanator
With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch!
***
Looking for a replacement for Rodemy.
unvote
This is too little, too late, since you've already requested replacement, but the Town's win condition *isn't* posted in the original post, which is the point, and Shockwave's language for the wincon matches my role PM.
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That would be why I said it may be indicative of scum.
But they're different people, with different reactions to pressure. It's not like I can say "Oh yeah, I didn't like the way iRebel came in and attacked his predeccesor." That would be ridiculous.
Nothing. If Shockwave flips scum, I'd look closely at you and dkings. I'm not going to act on any connections before a flip.
Location and wording. I'll leave it at that.
This wagon is bad and you should all feel bad.
On to my reads:
Town
Prophylaxis (r. Cantripmancer)
Kosakosa
Rezombied
Tanarin
Lean town
Arianrhod
Shockwave07 (r. iRebel)
fulcrum
Lean scum
Cythare
Hansanator
Scum
dkingsland967
Ganderin_Dan
Rezombied, Kosa, Cantipmancer and Proph have all asked questions that I had noted down. This means they're looking at the game from the same mindset as I am.
Tanarin is clearly town with how he handled what happened with Shock's claim. Misguided, but town.
Arianrhod did quite a lot of fencesitting early game. His play improved when the game moved on and I liked his iRebel vote.
Shockwave is in lean town because of his wincon claim. If not for that, my vote would be on him now.
I disagree with a lot of Fulcrum's reads, but she's hunting scum and giving well-thought reasonings for her reads. She also knew what Tanarin thought he saw from Rodemy.
Cythare has been pretty lurky, and I think that is her scum meta. Not sure though. From my leaning scum reads, this one is the weakest.
Hansanator lacks all scumhunting in his posts and is very self-aware.
Gan_Dan bothers me. Proph has explained what is wrong with him: he goes from a very agressive tone to a very calm one and back. afaik, town!Gan_Dan isn't aggressive in his tone. I've seen him misrep Fulcrum as well.
Dkings is apologetic in his first post, which is unnessesarily self-aware. His early wagon analysis is just silly and he holds on to that for far too long.
I'm sure that he's scum because of this post:
Fulcrum does a near-naked vote, and instead of just pointing that out, Dkings gives reasoning himself for why Fulcrum voted. That's taking self-awareness to a whole new level.
Vote Dkings
Also interested in a Gan_Dan lynch.
Given the theme of the game, I am working under the assumption scum were not given that much as far as falseclaims were concerned. The roles seem pretty generic enough where they may not even have them. Also, I have a feeling scum were not given the town win con given that the rules allow us to say word for word the wincon without threat of modkill. I can't see that rule existing unless the mod wanted us to use it to confirm players.
Saying all that, Shock is 100% town in my mind.
@Rhand: Yes, I ALWAYS read my role before commenting on claims. As you have pointed out, it is easy to get mislynched by failing to do so. I personally think it is a good habit to be reading your role PM at least every claim if not every week just to make sure things line up.
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Expound upon that... weird hansanator read, and why he's so townie for you.
Also probably gan_dan as well.
@Cythare
Do scum usually buddy with one another?
@Shockwave07
And.. now seeing Shockwave's claim. Hm. Ehh, I'm wary of clearing him based on the town win condition thing because it's based on too many assumptions (see Iso's Battle Royale for how he got into trouble with that, when Void quoted his role PM IIRC) but I think the first ability (send messages) is pretty townie and provable.
You have been given plenty of time to catch up and I have no idea what your views are.
Please provide a full list of reads similar to why I did on your next post.
@Tanarin
It's a gut feeling. I don't have to back it up with evidence, nor do you need to address a case. The way you did the RVS vote and the Kosa^2 felt off to me.
I'm leaning scum on gan_dan because I remember him being more of a mediator, somewhat, in Dr. P. This is mostly based on memory (I didn't go back and check Dr. P) but he seems unusually more aggressive in this game ("Don't misrep me!") than in Dr. P, I feel.
Question to the rest of the town:
What do you make of the bolded?
@fulcrum
Thanks for taking the time to look through it, though I feel like your conclusion doesn't match your reasoning. As a summary:
1st post: ~weird -
2nd post: useless follow up -
3rd post: breaks garcia rule -
4th post: asks good question, brave +
5th post: Does Things =
6th post: "I don't like this" -
7th post: "I'm okay" =
8th post: "Null stuff" =
9th post: "Trying to figure me out" +
I see two +s, three =s, and thee -s. Yet you say you don't have any major problems with Tan, and you declare him as a slight town read. Can you explain this? I *might* be oversimplifying things with the use of equation signs but normally that should point to a ~nullish read.
I'm going to fencesit on the Rodemy wagon. I'm not a huge fan of the wagon going like "Hey, I know something." "What is it? (includes vote)", without attempting to analyze Rodemy's alignment. I mean I won't cry if it goes through but I don't really like the votes, mostly because of the stuff I said above.
Though:
@Rhand
Why did you make no attempt to analyze your wagon, instead dismissing it with a "You're bad and you should feel bad"?
Going to go somewhere completely different and:
Unvote, vote gan_dan
I doubt I can get a Tan lynch today, and he has displayed townie behavior when he followed up on his questions. I'd like to see gan_dan swing toDay.
While I'm flattered that you can call me town after ~7 posts (everytime someone townreads me I feel like it's a sign of me improving after sucking hard in early 2013 + 2012), what questions specifically did you note down that I asked?
I feel like I know the answer to this one and it's not going to get me anywhere, though.
That being said, I'm willing to unvote for now. While it's possible that Shockwave just guessed correctly, it's equally possible (and Occam agrees) that he's actually town somehow.
I'll have more thoughts a bit later this morning -- just wanted to get that out while it was fresh in my mind after reading up.
No, nothing of the sort in SH.
Uh, the obvious example is [REDACTED], but I'll go out on a limp and say Leanne White from Presidential Mafia (I think ImTehFairy's role?)
And Ataghan was randomized roles so there's that.
I've been saying this for days.
#158 is terrible, but I'm not going to beat a dead horse by breaking it down, and his OMGUS vote on Tan and ragequit are even worse.
And there is this:
I've never seen Rodemy self-vote himself into hammer range before... oh wait, yes I have, in Apocalypse. As scum. He also had an early wagon on him in TMNT (as town) and DIDN'T self-vote. Hm.
Now, Rhand's replacement post:
Rhand just names three obvtowns and the guy who primarily set up the trap his predecessor fell into, and /barns some uncited questions that he likes. I like that Tanarin is labeled as "misguided" here, since his handling of Shockwave's claim and the subsequent fallout is one of the two major factors pointing to the Rodemy/Rhand slot as scum.
Now he just throws suspicion at a couple players nobody is really talking about and conveniently zeroes in on me, who he knows has been an easy mislynch in a couple recent games because he has participated.
Now he's discrediting the early wagon anaylsis, something that several of his town reads (namely Tan and Proph) were in favor of. Why? Because it is the second major factor pointing to his slot as scum.
This is a pretty big misrep. The post in which fulcrum voted me set the stage for that response, considering it also contained this quote:
/barning Proph left and right, discrediting anything that made Rodemy look scummy, and giving default scum reads with no reasoning on players with low content levels. We've got a live one here. My vote isn't going anywhere.
Also, /barn Tanarin on reading Role PMs. That is a really poor defense of Rodemy.
Arian, you should know of another recent example of this being a town ability.
I'm paranoid about Cythare due to inactivity (Smalltown) and placement on the Hans wagon. I haven't seen anything content-wise, though.
I felt Rezombied's first post toward me bordered on predatory (admittedly there might be a little OMGUS in there), and his inactivity didn't mirror his town behavior in Futurama. He has picked it up, though, and his recent posts have me feeling a little better.
I doubt I need to go on about Rodemy.
Cythare is a forevernull read for me, I feel - couldn't get a good read on him in House (he stuck null the /entire time/), and he seems to be giving off similar vibes this game.
We'll see when I dive into his posts.
I'm seriously blanking on it. You're going to have to remind me.
My only real knowledge of this role's existence was from Ataghan, where I was in possession of it as scum. I didn't know that Ataghan's roles were randomized, though, so I guess there's that.
There've been neighborizors and masons all around me, of both alignments, but that isn't the same thing.
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Since Survival Horror is in my mind now from trying to recall roles I've played with, I remember Dan lurking like a mofo in SH.
@Rhand: why do you say I've been fencesitty? I actually took a stance on something much quicker than I usually do in Day 1 scenarios, with the iRebel wagon. Your comment just feels like a cheap shot since I have a history of being more aloof on day 1.
Also, go more into your thoughts on the Shockwave/iRebel wagon, please.
I'm gonna answer stuff when at a pc. Too frustrated now for a third time.
Unfortunately, it's a GIP. There are a couple other players in this game who can confirm, though.
Ohhhhh now I know what you're talking about.
Got it.
I guess he just kind of slid up there as I moved people around. He's null right now. My gut wants him to be leaning town, but reading through his posts have almost no meaningful content.
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Arn is not a bad mod. He would never allow players to be confirmed town by quoting a part of their PM.
I went back to Arnmod's last game, Basic #73 (Disney Villains), and it had both town and scum wincon in the OP. Considering this game's important info in the OP such as rules and stuff is pretty much copypasted from Disney's, it's pretty safe to assume he left out of it on purpose. Therefore, it's also safe to assume scum are aware of town's wincon because they've probably received it directly from the mod. It makes much more sense than Arn screwing his game over a technicality.
That said, Shockwave's claimed role oozes townishness, and it's way too consistent to be a falseclaim. Plus, it's provable. Let time judge it.
Unvote
I don't like Tan much, but it's more of a gut feeling than anything else. There's also something very very wrong with fulcrum. Gotta get a reread.
I have no qualms in lynching Rhand, as something in the back of my head tells me Rodemy's outburst was a sham because reasons. But he's at L-2 and we ought to hear his claim. So Rhand, please claim.
So, as you switched people around you just left hans by the wayside?
Also you didn't answer the second part of the question.
Proph, why did you do that?
Thanks to Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sigpic.
Spider-Man Mafia 3 (Off-Site: NGA)
Metroid Mafia (Off-Site: Mafia Universe)
It was quoted from Apocalypse Mafia and I figured since Cyan talked about it there it was fine to quote it to imply ~things.