Our hero is smashed. Confused by the fact that buildings can apparently kill each other, he looks around the block
THAT KOSA BUILDING LOOKS STRANGE! WHY IS THERE A WALL-MOUNTED TURRET??!!
our hero continues on for twenty minutes about rezoning laws and strip clubs... God he wishes someone was a strip club
I think hans should post something our hero exclaims, drunk as **** And he should answer this question: why did you cop out during rvs? No random vote. It seems strange that you would not want to vote anyone, concidering you were just in a game with a few of us.
Our hero walks into the closest person who is a strip club, with a wad of ones
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My reaction was bad why? Because I'm not writing off players as too scummy to be scum? As I mentioned in my last post: I've seen this kind of wagon crop up this early before, fairly recently, and it was pushed by scum. How likely do you think it is that there are 5 town votes on a wagon that went to L-2 within the first ~25 posts of the game? Can you show me an example of a game where that has happened?
I've seen a L-1 wagon in RVS once, in a game where I was scum. My teammates were the first on the wagon, and the following four people were town. My team proceeded to lead lynches on the people on the end of the wagon. tl:dr We won. I can link it if you really want, but I'd prefer not to.
The issues with your post have been well covered but I'll summarize it for you: I feel like you were attempting to lynch easy targets.
I don't think he was ever implying that the last two votes had to be scum in that particular post, as much as saying that scum had to be on that wagon. Yes, I know his vote is currently on the last guy on the wagon, but that is also the easiest place to look for scum ATM, and considering it is still very early on D1, it is a decent place to start looking.
I think hans should post something [I]our hero exclaims, drunk as ****[/I] And he should answer this question: why did you cop out during rvs? No random vote.
Quite frankly, I don't see the issue.
The only time that I vote during RVS is when I have something hilarious to say. (See BSG and [I think?] Smalltown for reference.)
Marvel Mafia didn't count because I was just trying to fit in with everyone else.
I also noticed that nobody else had posted yet, so I opted for the perfect motivational first words. (See Modfia for reference.)
I think hans should post something [I]our hero exclaims, drunk as ****[/I] And he should answer this question: why did you cop out during rvs? No random vote.
Quite frankly, I don't see the issue.
The only time that I vote during RVS is when I have something hilarious to say. (See BSG and [I think?] Smalltown for reference.)
Marvel Mafia didn't count because I was just trying to fit in with everyone else.
I also noticed that nobody else had posted yet, so I opted for the perfect motivational first words. (See Modfia for reference.)
You mean, the only two games you were in that you were PRESENT for RVS?
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It seems strange that you would not want to vote anyone, concidering you were just in a game with a few of us.
Why would this matter in the slightest? Me voting someone would imply that I want to lynch him/her, which I don't.
See that is where you are wrong...
How many people actually want to LYNCH the people they vote for in rvs? Hell i've seen the mod voted once (i think that was me)...
SO.. try again please?
OK, I am going to ask you this: Are you asking these questions because you think he is legit scum, or because you are more annoyed by what he did. If it is the latter, I suggest you stop now, it is just wasting our time. If it is the former, I want you to explain EXACTLY why he is scum for his RVS actions (Pretend I am an absolute newb here with this one.)
I've seen a L-1 wagon in RVS once, in a game where I was scum. My teammates were the first on the wagon, and the following four people were town. My team proceeded to lead lynches on the people on the end of the wagon. tl:dr We won. I can link it if you really want, but I'd prefer not to.
The issues with your post have been well covered but I'll summarize it for you: I feel like you were attempting to lynch easy targets.
I'm glad you provided an example, that reinforces my gut read that a scum is voting Hans.
Side note: I don't think fulcrum would have cited that game if he is scum here, considering his position on the Hans wagon.
Is Rodemy an "easy target"? Maybe so, but here is my issue with his behavior re:Hans. He specifically stated when he voted that his vote was not RVS. He shouldn't be so concerned that his real vote put him at L-2 if he truly does have a scum read on Hans, and his posts from this morning seem to indicate that is the case.
Kosa is being Kosa. He rather famously doesn't have a scum meta. He's also fond of periodically making really dumb plays which either shoot himself in the foot or work out brilliantly. I'm gonna go ram a fencepole up my ass on this one. If Kosa is scum, it'll turn up before long -- he has basically no experience as scum (WWE, but god that's a bad example for everyone involved). I would much rather investigate players who are more....stable. I always seem to get in trouble when I go after the Generic/Rodemy/Kosa squad -- I just can't effectively / accurately read them.
I kinda feel the same way. The only thing I really remember about Kosa's behavior in WWE was his early game "I am not going to fall for SharkFinnegan's RVS shenanigans" post, immediately followed by tripping over himself for 10 pages falling for SharkFinnegan's RVS shenanigans. I don't really see anything reminiscent of that here so far... there is just something about the lack of an unvote in #20 that feels off.
I'd also like to hear iRebel's and Cantrip's thoughts on things so far.
It seems strange that you would not want to vote anyone, concidering you were just in a game with a few of us.
Why would this matter in the slightest? Me voting someone would imply that I want to lynch him/her, which I don't.
See that is where you are wrong...
How many people actually want to LYNCH the people they vote for in rvs? Hell i've seen the mod voted once (i think that was me)...
SO.. try again please?
OK, I am going to ask you this: Are you asking these questions because you think he is legit scum, or because you are more annoyed by what he did. If it is the latter, I suggest you stop now, it is just wasting our time. If it is the former, I want you to explain EXACTLY why he is scum for his RVS actions (Pretend I am an absolute newb here with this one.)
I am asking these questions to get a read. I don't like his actions in RVS. I'm sorry if this bugs you sir, but i don't think me asking him questions is "wasting time". If anything, it's giving you reads on both Hans and I...
I would have dropped it if he didn't say "The only time that I vote during RVS is when I have something hilarious to say. "
And referenced 2 games.. out of the 4 he has been in that i can see. If i am missing any let me know..
Out of those 4.. HE REPLACED INTO 2... which means he has not even been present for rvs in those two games.
So why even mention he only votes when there is something hilarious to say.. when he hasn't done that before...
Please let me know if that is wrong with other games you haven't voted in RVS.
I just find it super weird that you didn't have anything "hilarious" to say about the game you were JUST IN. Which, by my count... has FIVE people from that game... you are telling me you had nothing funny to say to ANY of us?
Vote Hansanator
Sorry i took my vote off of him before. I just wanted to be sure i thought he was scum before i got him that low.
I voted him non-RVS because i wanted to see if anyone else shared my opinion. Sort of see if anyone else was seeing what I saw. Took it off because i didn't realize that he was already at l-3 (til someone mentioned it.) I didn't want to be that guy who puts a man in claiming range without being certain he is scum or not.
Now, i am a little more certain he is scum.
You can disagree with me if you want. But isn't that the point of this game?
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I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
It seems strange that you would not want to vote anyone, concidering you were just in a game with a few of us.
Why would this matter in the slightest? Me voting someone would imply that I want to lynch him/her, which I don't.
See that is where you are wrong...
How many people actually want to LYNCH the people they vote for in rvs? Hell i've seen the mod voted once (i think that was me)...
SO.. try again please?
OK, I am going to ask you this: Are you asking these questions because you think he is legit scum, or because you are more annoyed by what he did. If it is the latter, I suggest you stop now, it is just wasting our time. If it is the former, I want you to explain EXACTLY why he is scum for his RVS actions (Pretend I am an absolute newb here with this one.)
I am asking these questions to get a read. I don't like his actions in RVS. I'm sorry if this bugs you sir, but i don't think me asking him questions is "wasting time". If anything, it's giving you reads on both Hans and I...
I would have dropped it if he didn't say "The only time that I vote during RVS is when I have something hilarious to say. "
And referenced 2 games.. out of the 4 he has been in that i can see. If i am missing any let me know..
Out of those 4.. HE REPLACED INTO 2... which means he has not even been present for rvs in those two games.
So why even mention he only votes when there is something hilarious to say.. when he hasn't done that before...
Please let me know if that is wrong with other games you haven't voted in RVS.
I just find it super weird that you didn't have anything "hilarious" to say about the game you were JUST IN. Which, by my count... has FIVE people from that game... you are telling me you had nothing funny to say to ANY of us?
Vote Hansanator
Sorry i took my vote off of him before. I just wanted to be sure i thought he was scum before i got him that low.
I voted him non-RVS because i wanted to see if anyone else shared my opinion. Sort of see if anyone else was seeing what I saw. Took it off because i didn't realize that he was already at l-3 (til someone mentioned it.) I didn't want to be that guy who puts a man in claiming range without being certain he is scum or not.
Now, i am a little more certain he is scum.
You can disagree with me if you want. But isn't that the point of this game?
Your count is wrong. I have been around during the RVS stage during ~7 games on this site, and, if I recall correctly, I voted during that stage in only 2 of those games (plus the 1 scum game that I already dismissed).
Rodemy, just please drop it. You're making an issue out of a non-issue. I've already said that me not having any comedic material in this particular scenario has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that I've played with some of the other members before. I hate repeating myself, so please listen.
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Also, this isn't the first time where I have been criticized for not voting during RVS. This quote is from Modfia:
I haven't been ignoring it; I just didn't have anything that I thought was relevant to say about it.
I didn't realize that you were expecting me to comment about the whole RVS thing, but I suppose I can if it will humor you.
I've never been a big proponent of randomly voting people at the start of a game*, but I have been known to go along with it on some occasions, provided that I can find some witty/humorous way to go about doing it. In this game, however, I saw that no other player had yet posted, so I saw it as a golden opportunity to drop the perfect line of motivation, and I did that as quickly as possible so that I wouldn't miss my chance. I'm sorry for breaking your cherished norm, but quite frankly, I see the RVS as something trivial. Why bother randomly voting for someone if the odds are greatly against you actually picking scum?
*I did not know what RVS actually stood for until I opened up that link earlier. I had seen it referenced in other games 'round these parts, and I had deduced that it had something to do with randomly voting people at the beginning of a game to spark discussion, but I wan't sure of the precise words that made up the acronym.
In the name of all things holy, please don't let this go the same way that game did.
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@Cythare: You've also been around here long enough to realize how RVS works. Find a better excuse.
A better excuse? You're going to need to clarify what you're trying to say here.
Third vote generally ends RVS. It's nothing new.
@Rodmey: I don't see the relevance here. That, or I'm just confused by the question, and what it intends to gain. It's not as though there's anything wrong with not voting in RVS (see my first post where I just vomited all my games).
@Tan/Hans: Since the two of you have been through this type of situation before, how do you propose we approach it?
And that is acceptable? Regardless of RVS votes, a wagon to L-2 in the first 24 hours of a game is highly suspect.
Well yeah, but your reaction is more suspect.
Vote dkingsland
Do you think our situation is similar to the game that you referenced in your next post? Do you agree/disagree with dkings' conclusion that there is likely to be a scum on that wagon?
@Tan/Cantrip: Confirm I'm not just making this up? 3 votes in RVS always sets off alarm bells.
I just don't see the scum motivation of being the first person to put any analysis on that wagon. It would've been much easier to either continue RVSing, or (moreso) jump on someone i.e. KosaKosa/Rodmey for their votes and/or the behavior immediately following them. Why put one's self on the radar in that situation when people were going to be adjusting to the game, inherently paying more attention?
@Tan/Hans: Since the two of you have been through this type of situation before, how do you propose we approach it?
I assume you mean the fact we had an ultra fast wagon within 24 hours of game start. I think we do need to at least look at Kosa's vote, as his I find to be the most suspicious of the bunch. Plus the fact he failed to unvote after noticing the lynch count is suspect as well. Instead he opted to make a post warning it was L-3 and then naked voted Rodemy.
@Tan/Cantrip: Confirm I'm not just making this up? 3 votes in RVS always sets off alarm bells.
I agree, 3 votes in a game this small is fishy but not totally unexpected. I also generally find that it is a null tell as far as if the third vote is from scum or town (Thus why I am not looking at Cythare ATM.)
I just don't see the scum motivation of being the first person to put any analysis on that wagon. It would've been much easier to either continue RVSing, or (moreso) jump on someone i.e. KosaKosa/Rodmey for their votes and/or the behavior immediately following them. Why put one's self on the radar in that situation when people were going to be adjusting to the game, inherently paying more attention?
I also agree with this fully. I mean, I guess scum could see it as a chance to earn town points, but then you would have to assume that scum feel the chance of forcing a risky mislynch outweighs the attention they would get Day 2.
I've only ever played on this site, and I have four completed town games in the spoiler in my sig. There are two GIP where I am dead town... am I allowed to cite those since my alignment is public knowledge? If so, I'll point you toward them. I've never been scum.
@Cythare: I remembered reading some posts during my early days playing on this site about the "3 votes ends RVS" thing. I thought it was from Smalltown, which you and I were in together, which is why I assumed you would be aware of it. I went back and checked and I was mistaken, it came from Basic #74.
@Rodemy: Your #60 reads more like TMNT Rodemy to me (eager and earnest), but why just now bring up Cythare's response to me long after it had been posted?
I would find Hans's early barrage of posts more suspect if not for this wagon.
So, someone did something that you find suspicious. And you decide not to question them about it because they have votes on them?
vote dkingsland967
Am I the only one that hates this post? I read DK's comment as saying normally he'd find Hans behaviour suspect, however, the number of votes is a mitigating circumstance and that mitigating circumstance takes precedent.
Our hero is smashed. Confused by the fact that buildings can apparently kill each other, he looks around the block
THAT KOSA BUILDING LOOKS STRANGE! WHY IS THERE A WALL-MOUNTED TURRET??!!
our hero continues on for twenty minutes about rezoning laws and strip clubs... God he wishes someone was a strip club
I think hans should post something our hero exclaims, drunk as **** And he should answer this question: why did you cop out during rvs? No random vote. It seems strange that you would not want to vote anyone, concidering you were just in a game with a few of us.
Our hero walks into the closest person who is a strip club, with a wad of ones
Hans is... not attempting some insane gambit within the first sixty posts of the game? On a completely OOG note, I really, really, like the more serious and straight forward posting style from you, Hans. I hope it's a sign that you're changing your play habits.
On an IG note, the fact Hans play style does seem different (even if its for the better) warrants a little attention as scum stand the most to gain from altering their play style.
I'm liking Tan, Dan, and DK the most at this very early junction and not liking Kosa much at all. I agree that we should look at and apply pressure on Kosa.
I want to see more from Cantrip and Rez.
Vote: KosaKosa
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I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
I would find Hans's early barrage of posts more suspect if not for this wagon.
So, someone did something that you find suspicious. And you decide not to question them about it because they have votes on them?
vote dkingsland967
Am I the only one that hates this post? I read DK's comment as saying normally he'd find Hans behaviour suspect, however, the number of votes is a mitigating circumstance and that mitigating circumstance takes precedent.
Not a fan of Kosa barning Rez on this either.
Like Dan's #38 post and Tan's #40 post as well.
You say you hate rezombied's post, that you're not a fan of my barn of Rez's post and that you like Tan's #40... despite the fact that Tan has also barned Rez's post in #40:
@DKing: rezombied basically asked the question I want to ask. Why did you find his RVS barrage suspicious in the first place? He certanly would not be the first player on this forum to spam the thread in that time period (Seppel and Iso being 2 prime examples.)
Furthermore, you never say what else besides the barn you don't like about myself, and you never say what you like about Tan, Dan and DK at all. Couple this with the slip regarding Tan's post ("liking" instead of scrutinizing it) and you have the poorest buddying attempt ever.
It's not pressure you're interested on: it's on mislynches.
@Kosa: Eeeewww. You seem real quick to defend Rodemy yet ostracize him at the same time. Being at L-2 less than 24 hours in is never a good thing. I am personally reading Rodemy's missing of the vote count to be genuine, but only because his vote went up at pretty much the same time as yours did, and he may have actually seen only 3 votes and not 4.
Also, as Dan pointed out, there is not too much more to comment on at this point other than the super fast wagon. Yes, he could have possibly skipped the whole analyze the rest of the wagon part, but he is at least making an effort to contribute on his first post in the game.
First off, I've never defended Rodemy. Have you never seen scum early bussing buddies? I just hated DKL's post as much as I hated Rodemy's, I wasn't defending him.
Secondly, stop referring to Hans' wagon as if it was a real one. It was RVS. Hans would never EVER have been lynched as no single vote on him was serious until Rodemy's.
I've seen Iso get rushed to L-2 or L-1 more than once during RVS and I don't remember half of the srs bzsz some of you are trying to start here.
You're not entitled to spaz out and naked vote him after seeing him pull some antic like that that he'd reasonably do as either alignment, and then start applying pressure afterwards, KK. Don't try and twist my words (considering I don't know how you'd come remotely close to that conclusion othwerise).
Is blatantly awful, especially considering who KK's dealing with in the former of the posts. It's too situational to be a pressure vote, and serves as a fantastic springboard into a fresh wagon.
The bold clearly means you're don't like my answers to DKL especially because I'm attacking DKL who is attacking Rodemy, despite having attacked Rodemy myself a couple posts before. And one thing is not necessarily related to the other, as you can see in my reply to Tan: if I see something I dislike, even if it is in people attacking players I consider to be scummy, I'll obviously point it out and pursue.
Also the second sentence makes no sense, since I started the "wagon" on Rodemy.
And that is acceptable? Regardless of RVS votes, a wagon to L-2 in the first 24 hours of a game is highly suspect.
Same as Tanarin: you act as if the "wagon" was serious. There's nothing suspect on people silly-voting Hans *until* Rodemy came in calling his vote to be non-RVS and self-awarily backing off after being told his vote put Hans at L-2.
I voted him on his "too soon" comment. He blind voted Hans and unvoted just because L-2? Do you often unvote people you don't like because it's "too soon" for pressure to be applied on them?
Granted, later he's explained himself better, but still, it was a terrible vote.
Of course Karn was town and Hans's alignment here is an unknown. Either way, I find it pretty hard to believe there isn't an opportunistic scum somewhere in the batch of votes on Hans.
I don't get why you're getting to that conclusion since 4 out of 5 votes weren't serious. I'd absolutely agree with you if Hans ended up being quicklynched or the wagon became a true one, but as of now, the only vote I find even possibly scrutinable is Rodemy's (which is why I did scrutinize it, obviously).
Hans is... not attempting some insane gambit within the first sixty posts of the game? On a completely OOG note, I really, really, like the more serious and straight forward posting style from you, Hans. I hope it's a sign that you're changing your play habits.
On an IG note, the fact Hans play style does seem different (even if its for the better) warrants a little attention as scum stand the most to gain from altering their play style.
I'm liking Tan, Dan, and DK the most at this very early junction and not liking Kosa much at all. I agree that we should look at and apply pressure on Kosa.
I want to see more from Cantrip and Rez.
You just made me unstick the fence pole from my ass and come down firmly on Kosa's side.
This is something I would post as scum.
-) OOG note, takes space and bulks up your post without actually saying anything. Note that I'm sure you mean it, and Hans should take the compliment -- but that doesn't change the fact that it's a scummy thing to post.
-) IG note -- "I'm gonna compliment your playstyle adjustments, but hey guys, he's actually scum because he adjusted his playstyle"
-) I like A, B, and C, and agree with the popular opinion that's already been said by multiple people that we should be pressuring X. I also want to see more from Y and Z. Most formulaic scum line ever.
-) Furthermore, Kosa's reaction is town Kosa through and through.
Add this together with Kosa's points, and I'm very okay with this.
@Kosa: There is a difference between Tan and Rez. Tan actually asks him why he didn't like Hans RVS barrage; Rez doesn't. Rez jumps on and votes DK with a rhetorical question.
@Arianrhod: Why is complementing Hans adjustment scummy? He's been in two games with me, the most recent of which I rode him very, very, hard about his play, and it nearly got him nominated for the blacklist. I actively pushed a policy lynch on him in WW II Mafia because of his play as a means of teaching him a lesson.
I'm legitimately offended that you'd have the audacity to twist the fact I offered Hans a compliment, out side the game, for in game purposes. You want to call me scum for the "formulaic" reply? More power to you. But don't you dare try to call into question the sincerity of something I said to another player, OOG, in the only avenue I can without getting modkilled.
As for the rest of your post: One, you can stop twisting my words any time now. Two, I didn't call Hans scum. What I did say is that, In Game, when someone's play style changes, it does warrant a little attention. Do you disagree?
As for the "formulaic" reply, it's a catch up post in a game with less than 100 posts. I dunno what you are looking for besides my thoughts. I gave them.
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I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
@Kosa: There is a difference between Tan and Rez. Tan actually asks him why he didn't like Hans RVS barrage; Rez doesn't. Rez jumps on and votes DK with a rhetorical question.
@Arianrhod: Why is complementing Hans adjustment scummy? He's been in two games with me, the most recent of which I rode him very, very, hard about his play, and it nearly got him nominated for the blacklist. I actively pushed a policy lynch on him in WW II Mafia because of his play as a means of teaching him a lesson.
I'm legitimately offended that you'd have the audacity to twist the fact I offered Hans a compliment, out side the game, for in game purposes. You want to call me scum for the "formulaic" reply? More power to you. But don't you dare try to call into question the sincerity of something I said to another player, OOG, in the only avenue I can without getting modkilled.
As for the rest of your post: One, you can stop twisting my words any time now. Two, I didn't call Hans scum. What I did say is that, In Game, when someone's play style changes, it does warrant a little attention. Do you disagree?
As for the "formulaic" reply, it's a catch up post in a game with less than 100 posts. I dunno what you are looking for besides my thoughts. I gave them.
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I won't be back until Friday.
I view your comments towards Hans as scummy not because of what they are, but how you expressed them. Why not just wait until the game is over? What purpose does it serve to make these comments now? That's where I see the scummy nature, I certainly don't decry you for making the comments in general.
I've learned the hard way that making OOG games / theory discussions / etc only ends in trouble. Hell, look at the emotional response that it provoked from you when I attacked you for it. Something like that gives you something to comment on wherein you feel (and can express yourself as being) legitimately offended, which provides you with something to do whereby you can emulate a town sensibility as scum. Nothing good comes of it.
Where do I twist your words? All I've done is highlight what you, yourself have said. If your words are twisted, it's because of the intent with which you've said them.
@Kosa: There is a difference between Tan and Rez. Tan actually asks him why he didn't like Hans RVS barrage; Rez doesn't. Rez jumps on and votes DK with a rhetorical question.
Yet Tan begins that post by stating that "rezombied basically asked the question I want to ask." As in Tan would have asked the same question if Rez hadn't before, denoting that Tan and Rez's mindsets regarding Hans were the same.
Sure, Tan went a bit further adding a question of his own and Rez may have been more agressive, but the end result is the same: Tan barned Rez. And you've praised the post in which he did it while disliking mine in the same breath.
Your first sentence regarding Rez's post is an appeal for the crowd:
And yet you haven't felt the slightest compellence to inquire Tanarin as to why he agrees with the post you claimed to hate? Instead you just give a thumbs up to a post that barns another you've claimed to hate?
Please. Just walk your way to the gallows and save us time.
As for the "formulaic" reply, it's a catch up post in a game with less than 100 posts. I dunno what you are looking for besides my thoughts. I gave them.
The "thoughts" on your formulaic reply are merely contentless barns. No questions asked, no delving into details. In fact, they're actually so contentless that they've betrayed you.
Is blatantly awful, especially considering who KK's dealing with in the former of the posts. It's too situational to be a pressure vote, and serves as a fantastic springboard into a fresh wagon.
The bold clearly means you're don't like my answers to DKL especially because I'm attacking DKL who is attacking Rodemy,
Nope. It means I don't like your answers to Rodemy.
So don't twist my words.
Also the second sentence makes no sense, since I started the "wagon" on Rodemy.
Nope. I'm having issue with your starting the wagon on Rodemy with this basis.
Sorry for going AWOL, finals week and I have a major project that I'm behind on.
Some thoughts:
Kosa's attack on iRebel sounds too confident to come from scum unless they're both scum.
I like GanDan and Tanarin.
Third vote on a player in RVS is, in my experience, generally viewed as suspicious because players shouldn't be being brought anywhere near claim range during RVS. Third vote (except in cases of lightning posts in succession) tends to be the threshold of "wait, was that serious?"
That said, @Cythare: What did you mean by your "reason" for voting Hans in 17?
@Kosa: Given the timestamp of Rodemy's vote, how is his vote any worse than yours?
@Hans: Similar question as that to Kosa: Why do you say in 37 that Rodemy's vote was "clearly inspired by the other voters" given the timestamps of his and Kosa's votes and his indication that his (Rodemy's) vote was serious?
Of course Karn was town and Hans's alignment here is an unknown. Either way, I find it pretty hard to believe there isn't an opportunistic scum somewhere in the batch of votes on Hans.
So you're making a comparison between a previous game and this one where a wagon quickly formed on a town player and there were 2/5 scum on the wagon, but then you acknowledge that the alignment of the wagoned player here is unknown, BUT THEN you say that you think there are "opportunistic scum" on the wagon, which would imply that you know that Hans' alignment is town?
(I might have a slight opening to post on Saturday, but that is still unconfirmed.)
@Cantrip - It was because Rodemy had already made a post after my only three posts at the time, so I assume that he had read them, and then he later changed his vote, saying that he found my posts scummy.
I'd think that he would have immediately voted me if he thought that my posts were scummy, instead of waiting until other people started voting me and then deciding that he found my posts scummy.
Did that make sense?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I'm a compulsive liar no matter what team I play on, but I'm trying to get better about it."
I would find Hans's early barrage of posts more suspect if not for this wagon.
So, someone did something that you find suspicious. And you decide not to question them about it because they have votes on them?
vote dkingsland967
Am I the only one that hates this post? I read DK's comment as saying normally he'd find Hans behaviour suspect, however, the number of votes is a mitigating circumstance and that mitigating circumstance takes precedent.
Not a fan of Kosa barning Rez on this either.
Like Dan's #38 post and Tan's #40 post as well.
o_O Others beat me to the draw , but again, why do you hate rezombied post over what I said a few posts later (As Kosa put, I did basically barn what he said and added a question of my own.)
@Kosa: There is a difference between Tan and Rez. Tan actually asks him why he didn't like Hans RVS barrage; Rez doesn't. Rez jumps on and votes DK with a rhetorical question.
Oh, that is why huh? Not buying it. I am pretty sure rezombied was expecting a response to the question. I don't know how you read it as rhetorical.
I'm legitimately offended that you'd have the audacity to twist the fact I offered Hans a compliment, out side the game, for in game purposes. You want to call me scum for the "formulaic" reply? More power to you. But don't you dare try to call into question the sincerity of something I said to another player, OOG, in the only avenue I can without getting modkilled.
As much as you may hate it. Even though you put OOG in there, it is still in game relevant. It can easily be construed as buddying up with the player. It is a very common tactic used by scum on a weaker player in order to manipulate them.
As for the rest of your post: One, you can stop twisting my words any time now. Two, I didn't call Hans scum. What I did say is that, In Game, when someone's play style changes, it does warrant a little attention. Do you disagree?
Did you call him scum? No you didn't. Did you try to do a bit of fearmongering though? Yes you did. How you may ask? Well you are right that scum has the most to gain by altering their playstyle, but at the same time, newer players have a lot to gain as well by altering their playstyle. It allows them to have a bigger presence in the game. As of now, hans is pretty much the weakest player in terms of experience. He is still growing as a player and you have pretty much just said that his growth is possibly scummy.
As for the "formulaic" reply, it's a catch up post in a game with less than 100 posts. I dunno what you are looking for besides my thoughts. I gave them.
No but this looks like the classic compliment sandwich. You start with something good, then layer in your criticisms, then end it with something else good. It leaves the appearance to me that you are trying to make your post sound more pleasant and are concerned about your appearance in that respect.
Unvote, Vote iRebel
@Kosa: I'm sorry, but your post #33 reads as a veiled attempt to defend Rodemy. Especially since you seem to have had more criticism of dking than you did of Rodemy. And while yes I will agree it is an RVS wagon, it does not mean info can not be gleaned from said wagon. To discredit said evidence is asinine.
First off, I've never defended Rodemy. Have you never seen scum early bussing buddies? I just hated DKL's post as much as I hated Rodemy's, I wasn't defending him.
How funny would it be if that is exactly what you are doing?
Only reason I am unvoting you is the fact that your reaction to the criticisms against you appear town ATM.
Logically speaking I don't like Dkings, since I disagree with most of his stances so far. At the same time, gut is telling me that he's reading a lot like the Dkings from Majora's Mask, which flipped town. Need to see more before I make a call there.
Could you expand on this?
/snip
Quote from Dkings »
I would find Hans's early barrage of posts more suspect if not for this wagon. There is scum in there somewhere.
Captain obvious.
I was actually asking what specific parts of his posts remind you of Majora's Mask. Should have been more clear.
/barn regarding not sure who Fulcrum is, but I'm guessing he was in WWE, since Hans damn near cluster****ed everything for town by like quintuple gambiting as town.
I don't think he was ever implying that the last two votes had to be scum in that particular post, as much as saying that scum had to be on that wagon. Yes, I know his vote is currently on the last guy on the wagon, but that is also the easiest place to look for scum ATM, and considering it is still very early on D1, it is a decent place to start looking.
The easiest place, sure. The correct place, though? I don't think so.
And that is acceptable? Regardless of RVS votes, a wagon to L-2 in the first 24 hours of a game is highly suspect.
Well yeah, but your reaction is more suspect.
Vote dkingsland
Do you think our situation is similar to the game that you referenced in your next post? Do you agree/disagree with dkings' conclusion that there is likely to be a scum on that wagon?
I think that Kosa and Rodemy are more likely to be town for their placement on the wagon. The wagon has no effect for my reads of hans, Tanarin and Cythare. For what it's worth, I didn't realize that dkings has never had a scum game before and the early analysis of the hans wagon is something I would really only expect from an experienced scum.
I don't get why you're getting to that conclusion since 4 out of 5 votes weren't serious. I'd absolutely agree with you if Hans ended up being quicklynched or the wagon became a true one, but as of now, the only vote I find even possibly scrutinable is Rodemy's (which is why I did scrutinize it, obviously).
I voted Rodemy as well, mostly for the same reasons you did, but you FoS'ed me. That's not very consistent behavior.
However, your case on iRebel is good and I agree with Cantrip that the way you came out with guns blazing showed a confidence that would be hard for scum to fake.
Also, do you feel that Rodemy's explanation of his unvote was sufficient? I still think, considering his vote was labeled as serious when he posted it, that Hans being brought to claim range should not have mattered to him.
-) I like A, B, and C, and agree with the popular opinion that's already been said by multiple people that we should be pressuring X. I also want to see more from Y and Z. Most formulaic scum line ever.
This point is on the money.
@iRebel: Why do you have town reads on myself, Tanarin and Dan? Also, if you hate Rez's post, why not pressure him rather than jump on the Kosa wagon?
Of course Karn was town and Hans's alignment here is an unknown. Either way, I find it pretty hard to believe there isn't an opportunistic scum somewhere in the batch of votes on Hans.
So you're making a comparison between a previous game and this one where a wagon quickly formed on a town player and there were 2/5 scum on the wagon, but then you acknowledge that the alignment of the wagoned player here is unknown, BUT THEN you say that you think there are "opportunistic scum" on the wagon, which would imply that you know that Hans' alignment is town?
Based on comments from multiple players, I clearly didn't articulate my thoughts on Hans very well. I have pretty strong doubts that Hans is scum based on how quickly that wagon built up, RVS or not. RVS votes can be faked (Also @Kosa). Also, there was no movement in any other directions. I think scum would have started pushing someone else just in case people agreed with Rodemy and put real pressure on Hans. I suppose it's *possible* Kosa made a bus vote and then a quick jump to Rodemy to start a counterwagon, but I have no interest in trying to go down that rabbit hole right now, especially after Kosa's case on iRebel.
I'd think that he would have immediately voted me if he thought that my posts were scummy, instead of waiting until other people started voting me and then deciding that he found my posts scummy.
That's literally exactly what he did, based on what he says at the end of #60. I would like to see him respond to this, and also my question about why he randomly brought up Cythare's response to me.
@Kosa: I'm sorry, but your post #33 reads as a veiled attempt to defend Rodemy. Especially since you seem to have had more criticism of dking than you did of Rodemy. And while yes I will agree it is an RVS wagon, it does not mean info can not be gleaned from said wagon. To discredit said evidence is asinine.
/barn the latter part of this. If something sets off alarm bells I'm definitely going to pursue it, and an L-2 wagon that soon does just that.
Kosa, you do have a fair point about the votes on the wagons. The wagon on Hans here was much more RVS than the one I cited from Smalltown.
@fulcrum: In the game you mentioned before, was the wagon that went to L-1 mostly RVS or mostly real votes?
I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
I want a response from Rodemy about why he brought up Cythare's post toward me before I consider unvoting him.
Because cy posted my exact thoughts after i read that post. I don't see why that wasn't obvious.
It wasn't obvious because you waited two days and 30+ posts to point out that you "liked" it, when you had posted a number of times between when Cythare's post was made and when you pointed it out. You only indicated that you liked it after I explained why I thought your vote and subsequent unvote on Hans were scummy. And then you just /barn Kosa's #88 without adding anything to the discussion. This is effectively OMGUS.
Not to mention that you have been actively posting, but pretty much just floating along agreeing with opinions/liking posts that others state, and occasionally posting goofy things such as #53. This is not helping progress the game at all. It's the same pattern you exhibited on D1 in Apocalypse and is what TCM and Proph correctly pegged you as scum for coming out of RVS. If you're town, this is bad form, but I don't think you are.
I don't think he was ever implying that the last two votes had to be scum in that particular post, as much as saying that scum had to be on that wagon. Yes, I know his vote is currently on the last guy on the wagon, but that is also the easiest place to look for scum ATM, and considering it is still very early on D1, it is a decent place to start looking.
The easiest place, sure. The correct place, though? I don't think so.
Where do you think the correct place was, then?
Quote from fulcrum »
I think that Kosa and Rodemy are more likely to be town for their placement on the wagon. The wagon has no effect for my reads of hans, Tanarin and Cythare. For what it's worth, I didn't realize that dkings has never had a scum game before and the early analysis of the hans wagon is something I would really only expect from an experienced scum.
So in short, then, you think that there is no scum on that wagon. Correct?
Not really sure where to come down on the iRebel thing. On one hand, the frustration seems justifiable, but on the other, he has to understand that literally everything he types can and will be held against him.
I'm pretty sure I've posted something functionally identical as scum (I think it was in WoW, but I can't be arsed to check) like what iRebel posted. The formula Arian posted is pretty accurate.
This doesn't strike me as a Kraj a-la-WoW or Kpaca a-la-Enders' type replacement, though. Most likely Noob scum melting under any level of scrutiny, considering how little he actually fought the accusations. I can emphasize after what happened to me in WoW if that does wind up being the case.
Also not concerned with Cythare's vote, it's just surprising to me that it wasn't of any note to him/Kosa. I guess there's nothing else to be gained from barking up that tree, considering nobody else feels similarly.
I want a response from Rodemy about why he brought up Cythare's post toward me before I consider unvoting him.
Because cy posted my exact thoughts after i read that post. I don't see why that wasn't obvious.
It wasn't obvious because you waited two days and 30+ posts to point out that you "liked" it, when you had posted a number of times between when Cythare's post was made and when you pointed it out. You only indicated that you liked it after I explained why I thought your vote and subsequent unvote on Hans were scummy. And then you just /barn Kosa's #88 without adding anything to the discussion. This is effectively OMGUS.
Not to mention that you have been actively posting, but pretty much just floating along agreeing with opinions/liking posts that others state, and occasionally posting goofy things such as #53. This is not helping progress the game at all. It's the same pattern you exhibited on D1 in Apocalypse and is what TCM and Proph correctly pegged you as scum for coming out of RVS. If you're town, this is bad form, but I don't think you are.
This is a good post. The train of thought on display here is unbiased, critical and blatantly town.
Our hero is smashed. Confused by the fact that buildings can apparently kill each other, he looks around the block
THAT KOSA BUILDING LOOKS STRANGE! WHY IS THERE A WALL-MOUNTED TURRET??!!
our hero continues on for twenty minutes about rezoning laws and strip clubs... God he wishes someone was a strip club
I think hans should post something our hero exclaims, drunk as **** And he should answer this question: why did you cop out during rvs? No random vote. It seems strange that you would not want to vote anyone, concidering you were just in a game with a few of us.
Our hero walks into the closest person who is a strip club, with a wad of ones
I don't think he was ever implying that the last two votes had to be scum in that particular post, as much as saying that scum had to be on that wagon. Yes, I know his vote is currently on the last guy on the wagon, but that is also the easiest place to look for scum ATM, and considering it is still very early on D1, it is a decent place to start looking.
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Wut?
Quite frankly, I don't see the issue.
The only time that I vote during RVS is when I have something hilarious to say. (See BSG and [I think?] Smalltown for reference.)
I also noticed that nobody else had posted yet, so I opted for the perfect motivational first words. (See Modfia for reference.)
Why would this matter in the slightest? Me voting someone would imply that I want to lynch him/her, which I don't.
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
See that is where you are wrong...
How many people actually want to LYNCH the people they vote for in rvs? Hell i've seen the mod voted once (i think that was me)...
SO.. try again please?
You mean, the only two games you were in that you were PRESENT for RVS?
OK, I am going to ask you this: Are you asking these questions because you think he is legit scum, or because you are more annoyed by what he did. If it is the latter, I suggest you stop now, it is just wasting our time. If it is the former, I want you to explain EXACTLY why he is scum for his RVS actions (Pretend I am an absolute newb here with this one.)
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I'm glad you provided an example, that reinforces my gut read that a scum is voting Hans.
Side note: I don't think fulcrum would have cited that game if he is scum here, considering his position on the Hans wagon.
Is Rodemy an "easy target"? Maybe so, but here is my issue with his behavior re:Hans. He specifically stated when he voted that his vote was not RVS. He shouldn't be so concerned that his real vote put him at L-2 if he truly does have a scum read on Hans, and his posts from this morning seem to indicate that is the case.
Do you think that's obvious? You didn't express an opinion about it before, you just asked Hans for his opinion on the votes on his wagon.
I kinda feel the same way. The only thing I really remember about Kosa's behavior in WWE was his early game "I am not going to fall for SharkFinnegan's RVS shenanigans" post, immediately followed by tripping over himself for 10 pages falling for SharkFinnegan's RVS shenanigans. I don't really see anything reminiscent of that here so far... there is just something about the lack of an unvote in #20 that feels off.
I'd also like to hear iRebel's and Cantrip's thoughts on things so far.
I am asking these questions to get a read. I don't like his actions in RVS. I'm sorry if this bugs you sir, but i don't think me asking him questions is "wasting time". If anything, it's giving you reads on both Hans and I...
I would have dropped it if he didn't say "The only time that I vote during RVS is when I have something hilarious to say. "
And referenced 2 games.. out of the 4 he has been in that i can see. If i am missing any let me know..
Out of those 4.. HE REPLACED INTO 2... which means he has not even been present for rvs in those two games.
So why even mention he only votes when there is something hilarious to say.. when he hasn't done that before...
Please let me know if that is wrong with other games you haven't voted in RVS.
I just find it super weird that you didn't have anything "hilarious" to say about the game you were JUST IN. Which, by my count... has FIVE people from that game... you are telling me you had nothing funny to say to ANY of us?
Vote Hansanator
Sorry i took my vote off of him before. I just wanted to be sure i thought he was scum before i got him that low.
I voted him non-RVS because i wanted to see if anyone else shared my opinion. Sort of see if anyone else was seeing what I saw. Took it off because i didn't realize that he was already at l-3 (til someone mentioned it.) I didn't want to be that guy who puts a man in claiming range without being certain he is scum or not.
Now, i am a little more certain he is scum.
You can disagree with me if you want. But isn't that the point of this game?
In other news, HI CY! I like this post
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Your count is wrong. I have been around during the RVS stage during ~7 games on this site, and, if I recall correctly, I voted during that stage in only 2 of those games (plus the 1 scum game that I already dismissed).
Rodemy, just please drop it. You're making an issue out of a non-issue. I've already said that me not having any comedic material in this particular scenario has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that I've played with some of the other members before. I hate repeating myself, so please listen.
------------------
Also, this isn't the first time where I have been criticized for not voting during RVS. This quote is from Modfia:
In the name of all things holy, please don't let this go the same way that game did.
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
Third vote generally ends RVS. It's nothing new.
@Rodmey: I don't see the relevance here. That, or I'm just confused by the question, and what it intends to gain. It's not as though there's anything wrong with not voting in RVS (see my first post where I just vomited all my games).
@Tan/Hans: Since the two of you have been through this type of situation before, how do you propose we approach it?
@Fulcrum:
Do you think our situation is similar to the game that you referenced in your next post? Do you agree/disagree with dkings' conclusion that there is likely to be a scum on that wagon?
@Tan/Cantrip: Confirm I'm not just making this up? 3 votes in RVS always sets off alarm bells.
I just don't see the scum motivation of being the first person to put any analysis on that wagon. It would've been much easier to either continue RVSing, or (moreso) jump on someone i.e. KosaKosa/Rodmey for their votes and/or the behavior immediately following them. Why put one's self on the radar in that situation when people were going to be adjusting to the game, inherently paying more attention?
@dkings: Town/Scum games?
I'm afraid I don't know what situation you are referring to. Can you please clarify?
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
I assume you mean the fact we had an ultra fast wagon within 24 hours of game start. I think we do need to at least look at Kosa's vote, as his I find to be the most suspicious of the bunch. Plus the fact he failed to unvote after noticing the lynch count is suspect as well. Instead he opted to make a post warning it was L-3 and then naked voted Rodemy.
I agree, 3 votes in a game this small is fishy but not totally unexpected. I also generally find that it is a null tell as far as if the third vote is from scum or town (Thus why I am not looking at Cythare ATM.)
I also agree with this fully. I mean, I guess scum could see it as a chance to earn town points, but then you would have to assume that scum feel the chance of forcing a risky mislynch outweighs the attention they would get Day 2.
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I've only ever played on this site, and I have four completed town games in the spoiler in my sig. There are two GIP where I am dead town... am I allowed to cite those since my alignment is public knowledge? If so, I'll point you toward them. I've never been scum.
@Cythare: I remembered reading some posts during my early days playing on this site about the "3 votes ends RVS" thing. I thought it was from Smalltown, which you and I were in together, which is why I assumed you would be aware of it. I went back and checked and I was mistaken, it came from Basic #74.
@Rodemy: Your #60 reads more like TMNT Rodemy to me (eager and earnest), but why just now bring up Cythare's response to me long after it had been posted?
While it makes sense, it is new to me. I don't recall this ever coming up in any of the game I've been in.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
Quick thoughts:
Rodemy looks jumpy as hell. Is this par for the course for him? That notwithstanding, Rodemy isn't pinging my scumdar.
EWP: "Generic on coke" = Rodemy? Good thing I invested in Ibuprofen stock recently.
Am I the only one that hates this post? I read DK's comment as saying normally he'd find Hans behaviour suspect, however, the number of votes is a mitigating circumstance and that mitigating circumstance takes precedent.
Not a fan of Kosa barning Rez on this either.
Like Dan's #38 post and Tan's #40 post as well.
Hans is... not attempting some insane gambit within the first sixty posts of the game? On a completely OOG note, I really, really, like the more serious and straight forward posting style from you, Hans. I hope it's a sign that you're changing your play habits.
On an IG note, the fact Hans play style does seem different (even if its for the better) warrants a little attention as scum stand the most to gain from altering their play style.
I'm liking Tan, Dan, and DK the most at this very early junction and not liking Kosa much at all. I agree that we should look at and apply pressure on Kosa.
I want to see more from Cantrip and Rez.
Vote: KosaKosa
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Unvote
Vote iRebel
You say you hate rezombied's post, that you're not a fan of my barn of Rez's post and that you like Tan's #40... despite the fact that Tan has also barned Rez's post in #40:
Furthermore, you never say what else besides the barn you don't like about myself, and you never say what you like about Tan, Dan and DK at all. Couple this with the slip regarding Tan's post ("liking" instead of scrutinizing it) and you have the poorest buddying attempt ever.
It's not pressure you're interested on: it's on mislynches.
Time to hang iRebel.
@Tanarin:
First off, I've never defended Rodemy. Have you never seen scum early bussing buddies? I just hated DKL's post as much as I hated Rodemy's, I wasn't defending him.
Secondly, stop referring to Hans' wagon as if it was a real one. It was RVS. Hans would never EVER have been lynched as no single vote on him was serious until Rodemy's.
I've seen Iso get rushed to L-2 or L-1 more than once during RVS and I don't remember half of the srs bzsz some of you are trying to start here.
@ganderin_dan:
Twisting your words? Here's what you've said:
The bold clearly means you're don't like my answers to DKL especially because I'm attacking DKL who is attacking Rodemy, despite having attacked Rodemy myself a couple posts before. And one thing is not necessarily related to the other, as you can see in my reply to Tan: if I see something I dislike, even if it is in people attacking players I consider to be scummy, I'll obviously point it out and pursue.
Also the second sentence makes no sense, since I started the "wagon" on Rodemy.
@DKL:
Same as Tanarin: you act as if the "wagon" was serious. There's nothing suspect on people silly-voting Hans *until* Rodemy came in calling his vote to be non-RVS and self-awarily backing off after being told his vote put Hans at L-2.
I voted him on his "too soon" comment. He blind voted Hans and unvoted just because L-2? Do you often unvote people you don't like because it's "too soon" for pressure to be applied on them?
Granted, later he's explained himself better, but still, it was a terrible vote.
I don't get why you're getting to that conclusion since 4 out of 5 votes weren't serious. I'd absolutely agree with you if Hans ended up being quicklynched or the wagon became a true one, but as of now, the only vote I find even possibly scrutinable is Rodemy's (which is why I did scrutinize it, obviously).
You just made me unstick the fence pole from my ass and come down firmly on Kosa's side.
This is something I would post as scum.
-) OOG note, takes space and bulks up your post without actually saying anything. Note that I'm sure you mean it, and Hans should take the compliment -- but that doesn't change the fact that it's a scummy thing to post.
-) IG note -- "I'm gonna compliment your playstyle adjustments, but hey guys, he's actually scum because he adjusted his playstyle"
-) I like A, B, and C, and agree with the popular opinion that's already been said by multiple people that we should be pressuring X. I also want to see more from Y and Z. Most formulaic scum line ever.
-) Furthermore, Kosa's reaction is town Kosa through and through.
Add this together with Kosa's points, and I'm very okay with this.
Unvote (just in case)
Vote iRebel
Rodemy (1): dkingsland967
dkingsland967 (3): Cythare; Rezombied; fulcrum
Kosakosa (3): Ganderin_Dan; Tanarin; iRebel
Hansanator (1): Rodemy
iRebel (2): Kosakosa; Arianrhod
Not Voting (2): Cantripmancer; Hansanator
@Arianrhod: Why is complementing Hans adjustment scummy? He's been in two games with me, the most recent of which I rode him very, very, hard about his play, and it nearly got him nominated for the blacklist. I actively pushed a policy lynch on him in WW II Mafia because of his play as a means of teaching him a lesson.
I'm legitimately offended that you'd have the audacity to twist the fact I offered Hans a compliment, out side the game, for in game purposes. You want to call me scum for the "formulaic" reply? More power to you. But don't you dare try to call into question the sincerity of something I said to another player, OOG, in the only avenue I can without getting modkilled.
As for the rest of your post: One, you can stop twisting my words any time now. Two, I didn't call Hans scum. What I did say is that, In Game, when someone's play style changes, it does warrant a little attention. Do you disagree?
As for the "formulaic" reply, it's a catch up post in a game with less than 100 posts. I dunno what you are looking for besides my thoughts. I gave them.
====
I won't be back until Friday.
UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls
RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty
UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
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I view your comments towards Hans as scummy not because of what they are, but how you expressed them. Why not just wait until the game is over? What purpose does it serve to make these comments now? That's where I see the scummy nature, I certainly don't decry you for making the comments in general.
I've learned the hard way that making OOG games / theory discussions / etc only ends in trouble. Hell, look at the emotional response that it provoked from you when I attacked you for it. Something like that gives you something to comment on wherein you feel (and can express yourself as being) legitimately offended, which provides you with something to do whereby you can emulate a town sensibility as scum. Nothing good comes of it.
Where do I twist your words? All I've done is highlight what you, yourself have said. If your words are twisted, it's because of the intent with which you've said them.
Yet Tan begins that post by stating that "rezombied basically asked the question I want to ask." As in Tan would have asked the same question if Rez hadn't before, denoting that Tan and Rez's mindsets regarding Hans were the same.
Sure, Tan went a bit further adding a question of his own and Rez may have been more agressive, but the end result is the same: Tan barned Rez. And you've praised the post in which he did it while disliking mine in the same breath.
Your first sentence regarding Rez's post is an appeal for the crowd:
And yet you haven't felt the slightest compellence to inquire Tanarin as to why he agrees with the post you claimed to hate? Instead you just give a thumbs up to a post that barns another you've claimed to hate?
Please. Just walk your way to the gallows and save us time.
The "thoughts" on your formulaic reply are merely contentless barns. No questions asked, no delving into details. In fact, they're actually so contentless that they've betrayed you.
Nope. It means I don't like your answers to Rodemy.
So don't twist my words.
Nope. I'm having issue with your starting the wagon on Rodemy with this basis.
So don't twist my words.
Not my fault if you don't make yourself clear.
Some thoughts:
Kosa's attack on iRebel sounds too confident to come from scum unless they're both scum.
I like GanDan and Tanarin.
Third vote on a player in RVS is, in my experience, generally viewed as suspicious because players shouldn't be being brought anywhere near claim range during RVS. Third vote (except in cases of lightning posts in succession) tends to be the threshold of "wait, was that serious?"
That said, @Cythare: What did you mean by your "reason" for voting Hans in 17?
@Kosa: Given the timestamp of Rodemy's vote, how is his vote any worse than yours?
@Hans: Similar question as that to Kosa: Why do you say in 37 that Rodemy's vote was "clearly inspired by the other voters" given the timestamps of his and Kosa's votes and his indication that his (Rodemy's) vote was serious?
@dkings: In 42, you say:
So you're making a comparison between a previous game and this one where a wagon quickly formed on a town player and there were 2/5 scum on the wagon, but then you acknowledge that the alignment of the wagoned player here is unknown, BUT THEN you say that you think there are "opportunistic scum" on the wagon, which would imply that you know that Hans' alignment is town?
It was a play on the phrase "snitches get stitches".
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Elaborate. [Why] did you figure [what] might happen?
(I might have a slight opening to post on Saturday, but that is still unconfirmed.)
@Cantrip - It was because Rodemy had already made a post after my only three posts at the time, so I assume that he had read them, and then he later changed his vote, saying that he found my posts scummy.
I'd think that he would have immediately voted me if he thought that my posts were scummy, instead of waiting until other people started voting me and then deciding that he found my posts scummy.
Did that make sense?
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
o_O Others beat me to the draw , but again, why do you hate rezombied post over what I said a few posts later (As Kosa put, I did basically barn what he said and added a question of my own.)
Oh, that is why huh? Not buying it. I am pretty sure rezombied was expecting a response to the question. I don't know how you read it as rhetorical.
As much as you may hate it. Even though you put OOG in there, it is still in game relevant. It can easily be construed as buddying up with the player. It is a very common tactic used by scum on a weaker player in order to manipulate them.
Did you call him scum? No you didn't. Did you try to do a bit of fearmongering though? Yes you did. How you may ask? Well you are right that scum has the most to gain by altering their playstyle, but at the same time, newer players have a lot to gain as well by altering their playstyle. It allows them to have a bigger presence in the game. As of now, hans is pretty much the weakest player in terms of experience. He is still growing as a player and you have pretty much just said that his growth is possibly scummy.
No but this looks like the classic compliment sandwich. You start with something good, then layer in your criticisms, then end it with something else good. It leaves the appearance to me that you are trying to make your post sound more pleasant and are concerned about your appearance in that respect.
Unvote, Vote iRebel
@Kosa: I'm sorry, but your post #33 reads as a veiled attempt to defend Rodemy. Especially since you seem to have had more criticism of dking than you did of Rodemy. And while yes I will agree it is an RVS wagon, it does not mean info can not be gleaned from said wagon. To discredit said evidence is asinine.
How funny would it be if that is exactly what you are doing?
Only reason I am unvoting you is the fact that your reaction to the criticisms against you appear town ATM.
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Ah, ok. Thanks for clarifying.
I was actually asking what specific parts of his posts remind you of Majora's Mask. Should have been more clear.
Fulcrum is a she. I played with hans in Basic 79.
The easiest place, sure. The correct place, though? I don't think so.
I think that Kosa and Rodemy are more likely to be town for their placement on the wagon. The wagon has no effect for my reads of hans, Tanarin and Cythare. For what it's worth, I didn't realize that dkings has never had a scum game before and the early analysis of the hans wagon is something I would really only expect from an experienced scum.
Unvote
@ MOD Consider me V/La til monday
I voted Rodemy as well, mostly for the same reasons you did, but you FoS'ed me. That's not very consistent behavior.
However, your case on iRebel is good and I agree with Cantrip that the way you came out with guns blazing showed a confidence that would be hard for scum to fake.
Also, do you feel that Rodemy's explanation of his unvote was sufficient? I still think, considering his vote was labeled as serious when he posted it, that Hans being brought to claim range should not have mattered to him.
This point is on the money.
@iRebel: Why do you have town reads on myself, Tanarin and Dan? Also, if you hate Rez's post, why not pressure him rather than jump on the Kosa wagon?
Based on comments from multiple players, I clearly didn't articulate my thoughts on Hans very well. I have pretty strong doubts that Hans is scum based on how quickly that wagon built up, RVS or not. RVS votes can be faked (Also @Kosa). Also, there was no movement in any other directions. I think scum would have started pushing someone else just in case people agreed with Rodemy and put real pressure on Hans. I suppose it's *possible* Kosa made a bus vote and then a quick jump to Rodemy to start a counterwagon, but I have no interest in trying to go down that rabbit hole right now, especially after Kosa's case on iRebel.
That's literally exactly what he did, based on what he says at the end of #60. I would like to see him respond to this, and also my question about why he randomly brought up Cythare's response to me.
/barn the latter part of this. If something sets off alarm bells I'm definitely going to pursue it, and an L-2 wagon that soon does just that.
Kosa, you do have a fair point about the votes on the wagons. The wagon on Hans here was much more RVS than the one I cited from Smalltown.
@fulcrum: In the game you mentioned before, was the wagon that went to L-1 mostly RVS or mostly real votes?
@DKL: if my case on iRebel is so good, why aren't you voting him?
/barn
Because cy posted my exact thoughts after i read that post. I don't see why that wasn't obvious.
People, please step up your posting game. we have had only 90 posts and it has already been a week, jeez.
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/barn
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My desire to participate is non-existent, as is my enjoyment.
Good luck townies.
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Mafia Stats
It wasn't obvious because you waited two days and 30+ posts to point out that you "liked" it, when you had posted a number of times between when Cythare's post was made and when you pointed it out. You only indicated that you liked it after I explained why I thought your vote and subsequent unvote on Hans were scummy. And then you just /barn Kosa's #88 without adding anything to the discussion. This is effectively OMGUS.
Not to mention that you have been actively posting, but pretty much just floating along agreeing with opinions/liking posts that others state, and occasionally posting goofy things such as #53. This is not helping progress the game at all. It's the same pattern you exhibited on D1 in Apocalypse and is what TCM and Proph correctly pegged you as scum for coming out of RVS. If you're town, this is bad form, but I don't think you are.
@dkings: Thanks.
@KosaKosa: Guess we're at an impasse.
@Cantrip: Nothing to say about the RVS-abstaining subject?
@fulcrum:
Where do you think the correct place was, then?
So in short, then, you think that there is no scum on that wagon. Correct?
Not really sure where to come down on the iRebel thing. On one hand, the frustration seems justifiable, but on the other, he has to understand that literally everything he types can and will be held against him.
I'm pretty sure I've posted something functionally identical as scum (I think it was in WoW, but I can't be arsed to check) like what iRebel posted. The formula Arian posted is pretty accurate.
This doesn't strike me as a Kraj a-la-WoW or Kpaca a-la-Enders' type replacement, though. Most likely Noob scum melting under any level of scrutiny, considering how little he actually fought the accusations. I can emphasize after what happened to me in WoW if that does wind up being the case.
Also not concerned with Cythare's vote, it's just surprising to me that it wasn't of any note to him/Kosa. I guess there's nothing else to be gained from barking up that tree, considering nobody else feels similarly.
EWP:
This is a good post. The train of thought on display here is unbiased, critical and blatantly town.