Rodemy, listen to me very carefully. Read these words that I type and process them. Understand their meaning.
You were voted in RVS for a (reason). The (reason) need not be legitimate. It need not even be (reason)able. The fact of the matter is that you were voted.
You are not reacting well to this vote at all. You are throwing a hissy fit and complaining that I should be voted for the same (reason). Remember: this (reason) is not a real reason. I am voting you for a reason. Do you see the difference?
Rodemy, listen to me very carefully. Read these words that I type and process them. Understand their meaning.
You were voted in RVS for a (reason). The (reason) need not be legitimate. It need not even be (reason)able. The fact of the matter is that you were voted.
You are not reacting well to this vote at all. You are throwing a hissy fit and complaining that I should be voted for the same (reason). Remember: this (reason) is not a real reason. I am voting you for a reason. Do you see the difference?
Yup. I think you guys are misinterpriting my reaction a bit. I am not saying that you should be voted as well whatsoever. I am saying that with his logic, you should be just as suspicious as I am to him. Yeah, i overreacted to the vote. But i saw something off on his reasoning. That was all.
As for the overreaction: It's like being accused of murder when you haven't killed anyone.
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Nope. There WAS NO reason behind voting you. And by extension, there WAS NO reason to be suspicious of you (or me, for that matter). However, there IS NOW a reason to be suspicious of you, and there IS NOW a reason that I am voting for you.
@void and Cy: Do you see my questioning of TMCT as an overraction and being "butthurt" or as me trying to understand his logic of RVS Scum votes?
Work got in the way so I am still reading, but saw this on the last page and wanted to ask a question about it before I began reading.
Rodmey, I know your last game was a bad one for you, but this here has me wondering why you are so concerned over a possible overreaction. Also, I know why you asked me, but why did you ask Cythare?
I like that you say something similar to what I said and then paint me as "playing it safe" by only bringing up part of what I said. I called out you and arbitraryarmor because you hadn't done much, and before anyone goes into claim range, everyone should have actively started participating at a minimum.
I understand your point, but what I didn't like was how you were fine with making him Claim based on what hes done so far this early. The only thing stopping you was other people's participation.
I was not fine with the claim yet, because I don't think he has done enough to warrant a Claim yet regardless of whose participated.
While it IS Similar, similar is just that. Not the same.
@ Kaz: your posts.. all five of them have been.. dull. Nothing to add in any of them.. an suddenly in your fourth post you claim i am scum.. with no real reason.
... k. As for the rest if the game. If any get a read off of anyone. It's too early and honestly, I took a mentor for a reason. I am still new but I can sense a sort of forced push on trying to say I can be scum. Saying I'm scum because I voted mod ( and sticking to it even after I clarified it was a joke) doesn't bode well. If i can get other opinions I may be able to see clearer. Does anyone else sense a forced push from tmct?
Oh, look. Another scum.
How's it feel being bffs4lyfe with Archae?
IT'S THE BEST THING EVAR.
You really think I find you scum for no reason?
In the quote I quoted above I see some tryhard defending, attempting to cast suspicion on another player, and some nice noobcard playing.
@void and Cy: Do you see my questioning of TMCT as an overraction and being "butthurt" or as me trying to understand his logic of RVS Scum votes?
And what do you think of Swshh's vote on me? Do you think it's a push? Cy, you know how i react to people voting me, do you think i am acting any differently than last game?
There is absolutely no reason you should be asking questions to a certain group of people like that. Especially those questions. You look as if you're looking for somebody to call you townish to alleviate the pressure on you. And again, you're attempting to cast suspicion on someone else(swishh) and doing a poor job, at that.
Unvote Vote: Rodemy
Ahh, come join me on this glorious wagon, folks. We have cake!
I like that you say something similar to what I said and then paint me as "playing it safe" by only bringing up part of what I said. I called out you and arbitraryarmor because you hadn't done much, and before anyone goes into claim range, everyone should have actively started participating at a minimum.
I understand your point, but what I didn't like was how you were fine with making him Claim based on what hes done so far this early. The only thing stopping you was other people's participation.
I was not fine with the claim yet, because I don't think he has done enough to warrant a Claim yet regardless of whose participated.
While it IS Similar, similar is just that. Not the same.
Cythare's insecurity with putting the L2 vote on Archae reads very poorly. He thinks two people are going to come in and quick lynch? Really? Looks like he doesn't want to put his vote on his buddy.
Even if there were a quick lynch on Day 1 somehow (:weird:), we could obviously dissect the wagon and lynch the scum.
It's not an insecurity, it's basically what swishh said. I don't think his play warrants a claim yet, and I'm not putting someone to L-2 without asking for a claim. Forcing someone to claim this early can be detrimental, because there's still a lot of time for votes to move around and opinions to shift as everyone shows up, and having multiple claims out in the open Day 1 doesn't help anyone but scum.
However, in that same post, I also state that I have no interest in a quicklynch, and part of that process to me involves the claim. Unless I'm very sure that someone is scum (as opposed to just showing some scummy behavior), I'm not going to bring them to L-2, and someone would have to be playing pretty poorly for me to want do do so this early.
As I stated last night, forcing someone to claim this early on doesn't help us. Opinions will change as the game picks up, and we'll just have an extra claim that is information we don't need. If the day continues and Archae continues to be the scummiest person, I'll revisit.
I never said his play warrants a claim. I said his claim warrants a vote, but since my vote would put him to L-2, I was not going to vote. There's a difference there. You're cutting out half of my posts/reasoning each time you quote me to paint me in a bad light.
[font='Georgia'][color='DarkGoldenrod']I never said his play warrants a claim. I said his claim warrants a vote, but since my vote would put him to L-2, I was not going to vote. [/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/color][/font]
This is the part I was misunderstanding. I see what your saying now though and I agree.
Sir Karn, was the vote on swishh random? If so, why put in what looks like a line of reasoning behind the vote?
I don't remember you being this aggressive early on in any game, Archae. When was the last time you completed a Mafia game? What alignment were you? Okay, my Basic game that I hosted.
You started off being aggressive, but then change that behavior to being defensive with minimal scum hunting. Some of the questions you asked I wouldn’t even consider scum hunting.
Sir Karn, was the vote on swishh random? If so, why put in what looks like a line of reasoning behind the vote?
Hello.
Not Random != Not Silly
I notice that you're asking me about that, while The Most Curious Thing also put down a vote with "what looks like a line of reasoning", and you didn't say anything about it.
Unvote.
Vote: Archae
RVS is over.
I like the vote. Archae’s behavior has been off this game.
Flailing is a fairly strong term to be using this early in the game. What gave you the impression that Archae is flailing? Please be as specific as possible.
Oh, here's a good example while I'm reading the beginning of Basic #69: scum-killjoy voted the mod, scum-dropkickdude voted himself, and town-pikachugundam voted someone not in the game. It's primarily but not always scum behavior.
One thing, that you wouldn’t know unless previous stated, is that killjoy and I had just realized we were on the same Forum playing Mafia together for like about a year and didn’t know. Funny story, kind of, so, killjoy voting me (the mod) had an outside influence. Thought this should be known about that game.
... k. As for the rest if the game. If any get a read off of anyone. It's too early and honestly, I took a mentor for a reason. I am still new but I can sense a sort of forced push on trying to say I can be scum. Saying I'm scum because I voted mod ( and sticking to it even after I clarified it was a joke) doesn't bode well. If i can get other opinions I may be able to see clearer. Does anyone else sense a forced push from tmct?
I do not see it as forced. TMCT is correct in what he has posting.
Right now, I don't think you're more likely scum than town; I think you're more likely scum than other players. For me there's a 27% names-out-a-hat chance that another player is scum and your first post only knocked you up to, I don't know, low30s%.
Second, "because you always vote seppel" is still an excuse even if it's a reference to BSG. You're voting someone not in the game, and then giving a reason for why you're dropping a vote that doesn't count.
I don't remember if you had any OMGUS in BSG...I remember a lot of new player plays but can't remember if there was any OMGUS or overreactions. Off to the archives.
Okay, so you have read BSG Mafia and you are going after Rodemy for minor tells. Since you know Rodemy’s game is rather scummy, then why would go after him for something so little that barely gives a read on him? I would find it better to approach Rodemy trying to find the mindset rather than using tells that are not guaranteed. I feel that you may be going after low hanging fruit here, TMCT.
@Rodemy:
You're overreacting and OMGUSing. Your reactions to TMCT's poking are scummy. Then again, you were scummy all last game and overreactive as town, so... I don't know what to think of you yet.
If i can get other opinions I may be able to see clearer. Does anyone else sense a forced push from tmct?
This reads as if you're testing the waters to see if you will be supported. If you think something, say as much and give any reasoning/evidence. This is a good habit to get in: as town, you should not be afraid of speaking your mind; as scum, it will help us identify you sooner. Win-win for the town.
This reads like coaching.
Cythare's insecurity with putting the L2 vote on Archae reads very poorly. He thinks two people are going to come in and quick lynch? Really? Looks like he doesn't want to put his vote on his buddy.
Even if there were a quick lynch on Day 1 somehow (:weird:), we could obviously dissect the wagon and lynch the scum.
Archae is coaching Rodemy when Rodemy has a mentor? Please make sense of this one for me, Sir Karn.
Cythare's insecurity with putting the L2 vote on Archae reads very poorly. He thinks two people are going to come in and quick lynch? Really? Looks like he doesn't want to put his vote on his buddy.
Even if there were a quick lynch on Day 1 somehow (:weird:), we could obviously dissect the wagon and lynch the scum.
It's not an insecurity, it's basically what swishh said. I don't think his play warrants a claim yet, and I'm not putting someone to L-2 without asking for a claim. Forcing someone to claim this early can be detrimental, because there's still a lot of time for votes to move around and opinions to shift as everyone shows up, and having multiple claims out in the open Day 1 doesn't help anyone but scum.
These responses make me believe that Cythare and Swishh are likely to be Town.
... k. As for the rest if the game. If any get a read off of anyone. It's too early and honestly, I took a mentor for a reason. I am still new but I can sense a sort of forced push on trying to say I can be scum. Saying I'm scum because I voted mod ( and sticking to it even after I clarified it was a joke) doesn't bode well. If i can get other opinions I may be able to see clearer. Does anyone else sense a forced push from tmct?
Only if it gets bad enough that it becomes impossible to scum hunt with him around.
I find this exchange odd. I say this because when I read RR’s post I saw it as RR stating that enough noob slips might indicate Scum. But with TMCT asking and RR’s response make me believe something else is going on here. It’s speculation at best for the moment, but it is something to note.
... k. As for the rest if the game. If any get a read off of anyone. It's too early and honestly, I took a mentor for a reason. I am still new but I can sense a sort of forced push on trying to say I can be scum. Saying I'm scum because I voted mod ( and sticking to it even after I clarified it was a joke) doesn't bode well. If i can get other opinions I may be able to see clearer. Does anyone else sense a forced push from tmct?
It's the RVS equivalent of "contributing without actually contributing." Voting themselves, voting the mod, voting players not in the game, etc. It comes more from scum than town.
You should have just as much suspicion of swshh as me.
But because he made one post before... he`s clear?
This just reeks of butthurt. You're scum and you've been caught early. What got you voted in the first place is basically irrelevant. What is relevant is your behavior after having been voted.
I Don't think a claim on Achae this early over some dumb RVS misunderstanding is worth it, at least not yet. Its getting dangerously close with how much flailing there is. Also for now Rodemy is just OMGUSing. Its not necessarily a scum tell, but if he keeps noob slipping It might warrant more votes.
Cythare is playing it safe. She says shes fine with the claim on Achae, but just wants to 'wait' for others.
I like that you say something similar to what I said and then paint me as "playing it safe" by only bringing up part of what I said. I called out you and arbitraryarmor because you hadn't done much, and before anyone goes into claim range, everyone should have actively started participating at a minimum.
However, in that same post, I also state that I have no interest in a quicklynch, and part of that process to me involves the claim. Unless I'm very sure that someone is scum (as opposed to just showing some scummy behavior), I'm not going to bring them to L-2, and someone would have to be playing pretty poorly for me to want do do so this early.
As I stated last night, forcing someone to claim this early on doesn't help us. Opinions will change as the game picks up, and we'll just have an extra claim that is information we don't need. If the day continues and Archae continues to be the scummiest person, I'll revisit.
@void and Cy: Do you see my questioning of TMCT as an overraction and being "butthurt" or as me trying to understand his logic of RVS Scum votes?
And what do you think of Swshh's vote on me? Do you think it's a push? Cy, you know how i react to people voting me, do you think i am acting any differently than last game?
Sir Karn basically said exactly what I would have wanted to say. Also, why Void and me specifically?
As Karn noted, I may have seen one game's worth of your town play, but I have not seen your scum play, and as such, I'm not going to try to draw any conclusions from such a small sample size, especially since you may be liable to changes to your playstyle due to being new. I'll be judging you based on your play in this game.
I sure hope you are Town this game, Cythare. Posts like these scare me because they come across as too Townie, if you understand what I mean.
For the record, at this point I think Rodemy and Archae are scum.
Cythare's response was fine.
TMCT is the towniest town to ever town
Swishh is giving me good feelings.
I hope everyone gets in here soon. I hate games that end up having multiple lurkers
Also, you never acknowledged TMCT's odd response to your question. You kind of let it go and dropped it.
If Rodemy flips Town, which I suspect after this post, then this gives credence that Sir Karn and TMCT may be scum buddies. I don't recall Rodemy making such a strong point in the past. The interaction Rodemy has described is a descent way of finding scum. That is, interactions that don't make sense or get dropped when they shouldn’t have been dropped.
@Rodemy
I don't care about swishh's self-vote because he had already voted another player. Scum voting non-players is often to avoid unnecessary interaction; swishh had already interacted.
@Rodemy
I don't care about swishh's self-vote because he had already voted another player. Scum voting non-players is often to avoid unnecessary interaction; swishh had already interacted.
@Void: I thought it was scummy because he voted me out of the blue.. and kind of meant it... Like he said: Half serious. He didn't see my vote as silly..
I was honestly just trying to be funny with my post.
Gone all day btw. I am on vacation and i would like to spend time with my fam. i'll post again tomorrow.
I do still think it's weird how karn just dropped the convo with TMCT When there was still a question or two to be asked..
and then again when i tried to ask them, Swshh just saw that as me being butthurt.
I liked voids post. It gave me a chance to explain myself instead of straight up accusing me of being scum.
someone asked mwhy i asked cy a specific question: He was in BSG with me AND he was posting at the time so i thought, Hey why not.
Anyway. Good luck hunting the scum! I'll be back tomorrow
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I don't see how random voting is interacting if the vote is indeed random, silly, or (most of all) meaningless.
Because regardless of the fact that it may be silly or meaningless, it still yields information about the player. Voting the mod or rolling a 1d12 to decide you vote isn't interacting since it shows nothing about your intentions or lack thereof, thus doing so is generally scummy. But RVSing another player is interacting because it can generate reactions and kickstart the game from there.
And yet not doing so provides information as well. This is your argument here. So the two (voting players in the game or not doing so) are therefore equivalent in their ends. Neither one is truly interacting at the level you (and maybe The Most Curious Thing) want to make it out to be.
Sir Karn, was the vote on swishh random? If so, why put in what looks like a line of reasoning behind the vote?
I don't remember you being this aggressive early on in any game, Archae. When was the last time you completed a Mafia game? What alignment were you? Okay, my Basic game that I hosted.
You started off being aggressive, but then change that behavior to being defensive with minimal scum hunting. Some of the questions you asked I wouldn’t even consider scum hunting.
Sir Karn, was the vote on swishh random? If so, why put in what looks like a line of reasoning behind the vote?
Hello.
Not Random != Not Silly
I notice that you're asking me about that, while The Most Curious Thing also put down a vote with "what looks like a line of reasoning", and you didn't say anything about it.
Unvote.
Vote: Archae
RVS is over.
I like the vote. Archae’s behavior has been off this game.
It seems that you've forgotten all about this by the end of your big post here. What made you not say anything else about Archae after thinking his behaviour was suspicious?
Flailing is a fairly strong term to be using this early in the game. What gave you the impression that Archae is flailing? Please be as specific as possible.
As soon as the pressure was on him he got overly defensive imo, and stopped doing anything other than trying to explain himself over and over again.
@Rodemy:
You're overreacting and OMGUSing. Your reactions to TMCT's poking are scummy. Then again, you were scummy all last game and overreactive as town, so... I don't know what to think of you yet.
If i can get other opinions I may be able to see clearer. Does anyone else sense a forced push from tmct?
This reads as if you're testing the waters to see if you will be supported. If you think something, say as much and give any reasoning/evidence. This is a good habit to get in: as town, you should not be afraid of speaking your mind; as scum, it will help us identify you sooner. Win-win for the town.
This reads like coaching.
Cythare's insecurity with putting the L2 vote on Archae reads very poorly. He thinks two people are going to come in and quick lynch? Really? Looks like he doesn't want to put his vote on his buddy.
Even if there were a quick lynch on Day 1 somehow (:weird:), we could obviously dissect the wagon and lynch the scum.
Archae is coaching Rodemy when Rodemy has a mentor? Please make sense of this one for me, Sir Karn.
Scum trying to help an inexperienced scumbuddy. It has nothing to do with Rodemy having a mentor or not.
@void and Cy: Do you see my questioning of TMCT as an overraction and being "butthurt" or as me trying to understand his logic of RVS Scum votes?
And what do you think of Swshh's vote on me? Do you think it's a push? Cy, you know how i react to people voting me, do you think i am acting any differently than last game?
Sir Karn basically said exactly what I would have wanted to say. Also, why Void and me specifically?
As Karn noted, I may have seen one game's worth of your town play, but I have not seen your scum play, and as such, I'm not going to try to draw any conclusions from such a small sample size, especially since you may be liable to changes to your playstyle due to being new. I'll be judging you based on your play in this game.
I sure hope you are Town this game, Cythare. Posts like these scare me because they come across as too Townie, if you understand what I mean.
I really like Cythare as Town at the moment.
Cythare copied almost exactly what I said in that post (from my 96), but you think I'm leaning scum (that's what I got from your big post at least) and you think Cythare is Town - with this post being a big factor of the towniness.
Regardless of what you think of my alignment (I can't tell for sure), why do you still credit this post to Cythare?
Still @Void:
You start off thinking TMCT is town in your wall-o'-quotes, even defending TMCT, but then switch opinions and eventually vote for him. Can you point out the specific instance that made you change your mind?
As soon as the pressure was on him he got overly defensive imo, and stopped doing anything other than trying to explain himself over and over again.
What was I doing before this pressure was on me? I found it necessary to explain something 'over and over' because I was being asked about it several times, despite my attempts at clarity.
You seem overly concerned about Void's opinion of you in this post. Reads off to me.
You seem overly concerned about Void's opinion of you in this post. Reads off to me.
pseudo-nathd and /barn the **** out of this.
I can see how if Sir Karn thinks Void is scum he's calling him out for being inconsistent. Otherwise it seems like he's jealous that Void town-read Cythare over him.
[QUOTE=Sir Karn;/comments/12144242]Last, what does ITT stand for? A search gave I Think That or In This Thread, neither of which makes sense contextually to me here.
ITT means "In this thread." It's generally spoken with a certain level of snarkiness.
And yet not doing so provides information as well. This is your argument here. So the two (voting players in the game or not doing so) are therefore equivalent in their ends. Neither one is truly interacting at the level you (and maybe The Most Curious Thing) want to make it out to be.
I'm not sure I fully understand your question. If you're implying my logic is somehow fallacious, you'll have to give me more specifics. What I wrote is what I see as logical consequence, in spite of your claims about how interactive RVS votes for players in/out of game are.
As soon as the pressure was on him he got overly defensive imo, and stopped doing anything other than trying to explain himself over and over again.
What was I doing before this pressure was on me? I found it necessary to explain something 'over and over' because I was being asked about it several times, despite my attempts at clarity.
You started out asking questions, then curled up into your shell of defensiveness when questioned yourself. Trying to explain yourself for ~half a dozen posts doesn't look good.
Seriously though, the advice is fine, but if I/town can catch scum who don't know about things like that (Rodemy in this case), I'm fine with a free catch.
I find that fact that you're trying to teach someone who made a very scummy post (Rodemy) how to not be scummy, instead of calling him scum, to be quite scummy.
..Hmm. I read that sentence and I could see how you could be confused, so I'll break it down:
1. Rodemy makes a scummy post.
2. You tell Rodemy how to fix it and what to do in order to look townie.
That is why it is coaching. Rodemy made an obvious scumpost, and instead of calling him scum, you tried to teach him how to look townie.
You and Rodemy both have individually scummy posts, and you coaching Rodemy makes me pretty sure that you're both scum.
I can see how if Sir Karn thinks Void is scum he's calling him out for being inconsistent. Otherwise it seems like he's jealous that Void town-read Cythare over him.
Bingo
I'd like to hear Void respond to my questions before I decide on him, but that opening post has him leaning scum for me. Also, as much as I like to think I'm good at Mafia, it feels a little too easy to have already found all 3 scum without everyone even checking in
I'd like to hear Void respond to my questions before I decide on him, but that opening post has him leaning scum for me. Also, as much as I like to think I'm good at Mafia, it feels a little too easy to have already found all 3 scum without everyone even checking in
I'd like to hear Void respond to my questions before I decide on him, but that opening post has him leaning scum for me. Also, as much as I like to think I'm good at Mafia, it feels a little too easy to have already found all 3 scum without everyone even checking in
I'm not sure I fully understand your question. If you're implying my logic is somehow fallacious, you'll have to give me more specifics. What I wrote is what I see as logical consequence, in spite of your claims about how interactive RVS votes for players in/out of game are.
Please explain to me how RVS voting is equivalent to not voting because I just plain didn't follow you.
You started out asking questions, then curled up into your shell of defensiveness when questioned yourself. Trying to explain yourself for ~half a dozen posts doesn't look good.
Would you prefer I not explain my reasoning when questioned? Many players questioned me on my first post, and I felt it necessary to explain what I meant given that my post inspired questions.
Seriously though, the advice is fine, but if I/town can catch scum who don't know about things like that (Rodemy in this case), I'm fine with a free catch.
I find that fact that you're trying to teach someone who made a very scummy post (Rodemy) how to not be scummy, instead of calling him scum, to be quite scummy.
..Hmm. I read that sentence and I could see how you could be confused, so I'll break it down:
1. Rodemy makes a scummy post.
2. You tell Rodemy how to fix it and what to do in order to look townie.
That is why it is coaching. Rodemy made an obvious scumpost, and instead of calling him scum, you tried to teach him how to look townie.
I could see Rodemy's post in question coming from a townie mindset as well as a scum mindset. If Rodemy is scum (and prone to making 'noob' mistakes), I doubt that nailing him/her will be terribly difficult. If Rodemy is town and hangs due to avoidable mistakes, all the worse for the town.
And given that you agree with my advice (that is, playing in the manner I described is helpful to the town void of Rodemy's alignment), I fail to see how my advice is scummy instead of avoiding bad scenarios. I guess it comes from your implied assumption that Rodemy is categorically scum from that post.
You and Rodemy both have individually scummy posts, and you coaching Rodemy makes me pretty sure that you're both scum.
Point me to my scummy post(s), please; you haven't pointed any out to me yet.
In This Thread. "In This Thread: I give my reads."
It makes sense.
Please explain to me how RVS voting is equivalent to not voting because I just plain didn't follow you.
I was showing how RVS voting for a player in the game and RVS voting for a player not in the game (as opposed to not RVS voting at all) have the same consequences by your argument.
Sir Karn, was the vote on swishh random? If so, why put in what looks like a line of reasoning behind the vote?
I don't remember you being this aggressive early on in any game, Archae. When was the last time you completed a Mafia game? What alignment were you? Okay, my Basic game that I hosted.
You started off being aggressive, but then change that behavior to being defensive with minimal scum hunting. Some of the questions you asked I wouldn’t even consider scum hunting.
Sir Karn, was the vote on swishh random? If so, why put in what looks like a line of reasoning behind the vote?
Hello.
Not Random != Not Silly
I notice that you're asking me about that, while The Most Curious Thing also put down a vote with "what looks like a line of reasoning", and you didn't say anything about it.
Unvote.
Vote: Archae
RVS is over.
I like the vote. Archae’s behavior has been off this game.
It seems that you've forgotten all about this by the end of your big post here. What made you not say anything else about Archae after thinking his behaviour was suspicious?
Yes, I had forgotten about the vote being there. As for not commenting more on Archae, well, Archae has been the only major wagon of toDay and he has answered just about every question that is relevant to him. I would only be repeating a question that had already been asked.
Flailing is a fairly strong term to be using this early in the game. What gave you the impression that Archae is flailing? Please be as specific as possible.
As soon as the pressure was on him he got overly defensive imo, and stopped doing anything other than trying to explain himself over and over again.
You’re misrepresenting what Archae was doing. Yes, Archae was defensive, possibly overly defensive, but, as I pointed out, Archae did do some scum hunting in that process. Is there a reason why you omitted this from Archae’s play?
@Rodemy:
You're overreacting and OMGUSing. Your reactions to TMCT's poking are scummy. Then again, you were scummy all last game and overreactive as town, so... I don't know what to think of you yet.
If i can get other opinions I may be able to see clearer. Does anyone else sense a forced push from tmct?
This reads as if you're testing the waters to see if you will be supported. If you think something, say as much and give any reasoning/evidence. This is a good habit to get in: as town, you should not be afraid of speaking your mind; as scum, it will help us identify you sooner. Win-win for the town.
This reads like coaching.
Cythare's insecurity with putting the L2 vote on Archae reads very poorly. He thinks two people are going to come in and quick lynch? Really? Looks like he doesn't want to put his vote on his buddy.
Even if there were a quick lynch on Day 1 somehow (:weird:), we could obviously dissect the wagon and lynch the scum.
Archae is coaching Rodemy when Rodemy has a mentor? Please make sense of this one for me, Sir Karn.
Scum trying to help an inexperienced scumbuddy. It has nothing to do with Rodemy having a mentor or not.
It has a lot to with Rodemy having a mentor. If inexperienced scum is playing with a mentor, then what need to the scum team have to coach a player out in the open? Inb4 WIFOM, but you can see why I am saying this.
For the record, at this point I think Rodemy and Archae are scum.
Cythare's response was fine.
TMCT is the towniest town to ever town
Swishh is giving me good feelings.
I hope everyone gets in here soon. I hate games that end up having multiple lurkers
Why the strong buddy up to TMCT?
ITT: I give my reads.
Then break down everything about TMCT and explain why he is Town. From my Quote wall you should have realized that I am not Town reading TMCT. I expected more of a response the first time around. Should have been more specific I guess.
@void and Cy: Do you see my questioning of TMCT as an overraction and being "butthurt" or as me trying to understand his logic of RVS Scum votes?
And what do you think of Swshh's vote on me? Do you think it's a push? Cy, you know how i react to people voting me, do you think i am acting any differently than last game?
Sir Karn basically said exactly what I would have wanted to say. Also, why Void and me specifically?
As Karn noted, I may have seen one game's worth of your town play, but I have not seen your scum play, and as such, I'm not going to try to draw any conclusions from such a small sample size, especially since you may be liable to changes to your playstyle due to being new. I'll be judging you based on your play in this game.
I sure hope you are Town this game, Cythare. Posts like these scare me because they come across as too Townie, if you understand what I mean.
I really like Cythare as Town at the moment.
Cythare copied almost exactly what I said in that post (from my 96), but you think I'm leaning scum (that's what I got from your big post at least) and you think Cythare is Town - with this post being a big factor of the towniness.
Regardless of what you think of my alignment (I can't tell for sure), why do you still credit this post to Cythare?
Still @Void:
You start off thinking TMCT is town in your wall-o'-quotes, even defending TMCT, but then switch opinions and eventually vote for him. Can you point out the specific instance that made you change your mind?
I was defending TMCT without knowing his alignment. Everything up to the point of my defense should inidcate that my read on TMCT was null. The questions themselves weren't intended to defend TMCT either. They were intended to help me get a better read on that player.
As for defending TCMT, you will notice that the question that are defending TMCT come prior to me gaining a scum read on him. This is very clear in that post, Sir Karn. So, why are you trying to paint me scummy for something that is painfully obvious?
I'm okay with lynching either TMCT or Sir Karn at the moment.
Please explain to me how RVS voting is equivalent to not voting because I just plain didn't follow you.
I was showing how RVS voting for a player in the game and RVS voting for a player not in the game (as opposed to not RVS voting at all) have the same consequences by your argument.
I don't see how random voting is interacting if the vote is indeed random, silly, or (most of all) meaningless.
Because regardless of the fact that it may be silly or meaningless, it still yields information about the player. Voting the mod or rolling a 1d12 to decide you vote isn't interacting since it shows nothing about your intentions or lack thereof, thus doing so is generally scummy. But RVSing another player is interacting because it can generate reactions and kickstart the game from there.
Rather than talk with a high level of generality, I'm going to use the example of voting the mod.
You are claiming that if I vote the mod, I am generally acting scummy.
Also, if I vote another player in the game, it yields information about me.
In both cases, you are gaining information about the me. In both cases, people are reacting (genuinely) to my vote. Aside from a possible RVS L-2 or lynch in the case of voting another player (which don't happen on MTGS in my experience), I fail to see how the two differ in what they accomplish.
@ Archae
Have you ever been in a game with noob-scum?
If so, how did they act when thier teamates were bussing them?
Honestly, I would have to go back and reread my games to check. I have definitely been in a game with noob-scum, but not sure there was a lot of bussing. Are you implying that a noob-scum is being bussed in this game? If not, what are you driving at?
Honestly, I would have to go back and reread my games to check. I have definitely been in a game with noob-scum, but not sure there was a lot of bussing. Are you implying that a noob-scum is being bussed in this game? If not, what are you driving at?
A theroy right now. Not enough evidence yet to say, but I figured it was worth a question.
Archae (2): Sir Karn, The Most Curious Thing Rodemy (2): swishh, Kazekirimaru Sir Karn (1): arbitraryarmor Rancid Raptor (1): Cythare The Most Curious Thing (1): Void
Not Voting (5): Archae, Cantripmancer, Kosakosa, Rancid Raptor, Rodemy
I wasn't a fan of the way RancidRaptor tried to turn this on you instead of simply pointing this out. Then again, I'm not a fan of RancidRaptor.[/color][/font]
Psst, I think you just unvoted your vote on them to vote them agian.
Any particular reason for this?
You missed what happened. IN my quote wall I had voted for Archae, but in the end attempted to vote for TMCT, but didn't, because I had not unvoted.
So the post you are quoting is me getting my vote where I intended it to be, on TMCT.
Any questions?
You don't need to unvote to change your vote in Seppel games.
I wasn't a fan of the way RancidRaptor tried to turn this on you instead of simply pointing this out. Then again, I'm not a fan of RancidRaptor.
I need to get use to Seppel's rules.
Nor am I. Albeit, it's one of the weaker reasons to suspect RR at this point.
I'm aware it's not the strongest point, but I already suspect him, and I'm not going to discount something I find off just because it isn't damning by itself.
Psst, I think you just unvoted your vote on them to vote them agian.
Any particular reason for this?
You missed what happened. IN my quote wall I had voted for Archae, but in the end attempted to vote for TMCT, but didn't, because I had not unvoted.
So the post you are quoting is me getting my vote where I intended it to be, on TMCT.
Any questions?
You don't need to unvote to change your vote in Seppel games.
I wasn't a fan of the way RancidRaptor tried to turn this on you instead of simply pointing this out. Then again, I'm not a fan of RancidRaptor.
I need to get use to Seppel's rules.
Nor am I. Albeit, it's one of the weaker reasons to suspect RR at this point.
I'm aware it's not the strongest point, but I already suspect him, and I'm not going to discount something I find off just because it isn't damning by itself.
I wasn't asking you to discount anything. I was meerly pointing something out.
You were voted in RVS for a (reason). The (reason) need not be legitimate. It need not even be (reason)able. The fact of the matter is that you were voted.
You are not reacting well to this vote at all. You are throwing a hissy fit and complaining that I should be voted for the same (reason). Remember: this (reason) is not a real reason. I am voting you for a reason. Do you see the difference?
Yup. I think you guys are misinterpriting my reaction a bit. I am not saying that you should be voted as well whatsoever. I am saying that with his logic, you should be just as suspicious as I am to him. Yeah, i overreacted to the vote. But i saw something off on his reasoning. That was all.
As for the overreaction: It's like being accused of murder when you haven't killed anyone.
I want TMCT to weigh in on this, though.
Work got in the way so I am still reading, but saw this on the last page and wanted to ask a question about it before I began reading.
Rodmey, I know your last game was a bad one for you, but this here has me wondering why you are so concerned over a possible overreaction. Also, I know why you asked me, but why did you ask Cythare?
More to come in a bit.
I understand your point, but what I didn't like was how you were fine with making him Claim based on what hes done so far this early. The only thing stopping you was other people's participation.
I was not fine with the claim yet, because I don't think he has done enough to warrant a Claim yet regardless of whose participated.
While it IS Similar, similar is just that. Not the same.
It's Hip to be a Square
You'd be wrong.
Agreed, for the most part.
If you're bored, you can respond to my question about the advice I gave:
You really think I find you scum for no reason?
In the quote I quoted above I see some tryhard defending, attempting to cast suspicion on another player, and some nice noobcard playing.
There is absolutely no reason you should be asking questions to a certain group of people like that. Especially those questions. You look as if you're looking for somebody to call you townish to alleviate the pressure on you. And again, you're attempting to cast suspicion on someone else(swishh) and doing a poor job, at that.
Unvote
Vote: Rodemy
Ahh, come join me on this glorious wagon, folks. We have cake!
Did you miss this or were you just ignoring it?
or this?:
I never said his play warrants a claim. I said his claim warrants a vote, but since my vote would put him to L-2, I was not going to vote. There's a difference there. You're cutting out half of my posts/reasoning each time you quote me to paint me in a bad light.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
This is the part I was misunderstanding. I see what your saying now though and I agree.
It's Hip to be a Square
Theres been some voting and its been a few pages since the last vote count.
It's Hip to be a Square
OMGUS from GIP?
Did you read Battlestar Galactica Mafia?
I don't remember you being this aggressive early on in any game, Archae.
When was the last time you completed a Mafia game? What alignment were you?Okay, my Basic game that I hosted.You started off being aggressive, but then change that behavior to being defensive with minimal scum hunting. Some of the questions you asked I wouldn’t even consider scum hunting.
I like the vote. Archae’s behavior has been off this game.
When you posted the above, had you read the thread up to your post?
Is there a reason why you’re joking around instead of being serious? We’re not in RVS anymore.
Flailing is a fairly strong term to be using this early in the game. What gave you the impression that Archae is flailing? Please be as specific as possible.
One thing, that you wouldn’t know unless previous stated, is that killjoy and I had just realized we were on the same Forum playing Mafia together for like about a year and didn’t know. Funny story, kind of, so, killjoy voting me (the mod) had an outside influence. Thought this should be known about that game.
Would you explain how what TMCT has done comes from a Scum mindset?
I do not see it as forced. TMCT is correct in what he has posting.
Okay, so you have read BSG Mafia and you are going after Rodemy for minor tells. Since you know Rodemy’s game is rather scummy, then why would go after him for something so little that barely gives a read on him? I would find it better to approach Rodemy trying to find the mindset rather than using tells that are not guaranteed. I feel that you may be going after low hanging fruit here, TMCT.
Archae is coaching Rodemy when Rodemy has a mentor? Please make sense of this one for me, Sir Karn.
These responses make me believe that Cythare and Swishh are likely to be Town.
Please explain why Rodemy is scum to you.
I find this exchange odd. I say this because when I read RR’s post I saw it as RR stating that enough noob slips might indicate Scum. But with TMCT asking and RR’s response make me believe something else is going on here. It’s speculation at best for the moment, but it is something to note.
Have you read BSG Mafia?
You may be on to something with RR there. However, I believe TMCT will be a better route to go.
Why the strong buddy up to TMCT?
I sure hope you are Town this game, Cythare. Posts like these scare me because they come across as too Townie, if you understand what I mean.
I really like Cythare as Town at the moment.
If Rodemy flips Town, which I suspect after this post, then this gives credence that Sir Karn and TMCT may be scum buddies. I don't recall Rodemy making such a strong point in the past. The interaction Rodemy has described is a descent way of finding scum. That is, interactions that don't make sense or get dropped when they shouldn’t have been dropped.
Vote: The Most Curious Thing
Post length isn't equivalent to ***** size or towniness, you know.
Welcome to Void.
@Rodemy
I don't care about swishh's self-vote because he had already voted another player. Scum voting non-players is often to avoid unnecessary interaction; swishh had already interacted.
Lunch post; detailed stuff tonight.
I liked it better before you justified your vote.
I was honestly just trying to be funny with my post.
Gone all day btw. I am on vacation and i would like to spend time with my fam. i'll post again tomorrow.
I do still think it's weird how karn just dropped the convo with TMCT When there was still a question or two to be asked..
and then again when i tried to ask them, Swshh just saw that as me being butthurt.
I liked voids post. It gave me a chance to explain myself instead of straight up accusing me of being scum.
someone asked mwhy i asked cy a specific question: He was in BSG with me AND he was posting at the time so i thought, Hey why not.
Anyway. Good luck hunting the scum! I'll be back tomorrow
Because regardless of the fact that it may be silly or meaningless, it still yields information about the player. Voting the mod or rolling a 1d12 to decide you vote isn't interacting since it shows nothing about your intentions or lack thereof, thus doing so is generally scummy. But RVSing another player is interacting because it can generate reactions and kickstart the game from there.
It seems that you've forgotten all about this by the end of your big post here. What made you not say anything else about Archae after thinking his behaviour was suspicious?
As soon as the pressure was on him he got overly defensive imo, and stopped doing anything other than trying to explain himself over and over again.
Scum trying to help an inexperienced scumbuddy. It has nothing to do with Rodemy having a mentor or not.
ITT: I give my reads.
Cythare copied almost exactly what I said in that post (from my 96), but you think I'm leaning scum (that's what I got from your big post at least) and you think Cythare is Town - with this post being a big factor of the towniness.
Regardless of what you think of my alignment (I can't tell for sure), why do you still credit this post to Cythare?
Still @Void:
You start off thinking TMCT is town in your wall-o'-quotes, even defending TMCT, but then switch opinions and eventually vote for him. Can you point out the specific instance that made you change your mind?
What was I doing before this pressure was on me? I found it necessary to explain something 'over and over' because I was being asked about it several times, despite my attempts at clarity.
You seem overly concerned about Void's opinion of you in this post. Reads off to me.
Also, you have yet to respond to my question.
Last, what does ITT stand for? A search gave I Think That or In This Thread, neither of which makes sense contextually to me here.
pseudo-nathd and /barn the **** out of this.
I can see how if Sir Karn thinks Void is scum he's calling him out for being inconsistent. Otherwise it seems like he's jealous that Void town-read Cythare over him.
ITT means "In this thread." It's generally spoken with a certain level of snarkiness.
How did you come up with that word logic?
I'm not sure I fully understand your question. If you're implying my logic is somehow fallacious, you'll have to give me more specifics. What I wrote is what I see as logical consequence, in spite of your claims about how interactive RVS votes for players in/out of game are.
You started out asking questions, then curled up into your shell of defensiveness when questioned yourself. Trying to explain yourself for ~half a dozen posts doesn't look good.
Not even close.
You said I could answer it if I got bored
Seriously though, the advice is fine, but if I/town can catch scum who don't know about things like that (Rodemy in this case), I'm fine with a free catch.
I find that fact that you're trying to teach someone who made a very scummy post (Rodemy) how to not be scummy, instead of calling him scum, to be quite scummy.
..Hmm. I read that sentence and I could see how you could be confused, so I'll break it down:
1. Rodemy makes a scummy post.
2. You tell Rodemy how to fix it and what to do in order to look townie.
That is why it is coaching. Rodemy made an obvious scumpost, and instead of calling him scum, you tried to teach him how to look townie.
You and Rodemy both have individually scummy posts, and you coaching Rodemy makes me pretty sure that you're both scum.
In This Thread.
"In This Thread: I give my reads."
It makes sense.
Bingo
I'd like to hear Void respond to my questions before I decide on him, but that opening post has him leaning scum for me. Also, as much as I like to think I'm good at Mafia, it feels a little too easy to have already found all 3 scum without everyone even checking in
You're missing RancidRaptor.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
Hmm?
Please explain to me how RVS voting is equivalent to not voting because I just plain didn't follow you.
Would you prefer I not explain my reasoning when questioned? Many players questioned me on my first post, and I felt it necessary to explain what I meant given that my post inspired questions.
I could see Rodemy's post in question coming from a townie mindset as well as a scum mindset. If Rodemy is scum (and prone to making 'noob' mistakes), I doubt that nailing him/her will be terribly difficult. If Rodemy is town and hangs due to avoidable mistakes, all the worse for the town.
And given that you agree with my advice (that is, playing in the manner I described is helpful to the town void of Rodemy's alignment), I fail to see how my advice is scummy instead of avoiding bad scenarios. I guess it comes from your implied assumption that Rodemy is categorically scum from that post.
Point me to my scummy post(s), please; you haven't pointed any out to me yet.
Not grammatically, but okay.
I was showing how RVS voting for a player in the game and RVS voting for a player not in the game (as opposed to not RVS voting at all) have the same consequences by your argument.
How would you know how big my ***** is?
Archae.
I'm determining whether you are Town voting scummy behavior or Scum bussing a possible Scum buddy.
It becomes weirder when NEITHER have responded to your claim.
Yes, I had forgotten about the vote being there. As for not commenting more on Archae, well, Archae has been the only major wagon of toDay and he has answered just about every question that is relevant to him. I would only be repeating a question that had already been asked.
You’re misrepresenting what Archae was doing. Yes, Archae was defensive, possibly overly defensive, but, as I pointed out, Archae did do some scum hunting in that process. Is there a reason why you omitted this from Archae’s play?
It has a lot to with Rodemy having a mentor. If inexperienced scum is playing with a mentor, then what need to the scum team have to coach a player out in the open? Inb4 WIFOM, but you can see why I am saying this.
Then break down everything about TMCT and explain why he is Town. From my Quote wall you should have realized that I am not Town reading TMCT. I expected more of a response the first time around. Should have been more specific I guess.
It’s because of your interaction with TMCT.
I was defending TMCT without knowing his alignment. Everything up to the point of my defense should inidcate that my read on TMCT was null. The questions themselves weren't intended to defend TMCT either. They were intended to help me get a better read on that player.
As for defending TCMT, you will notice that the question that are defending TMCT come prior to me gaining a scum read on him. This is very clear in that post, Sir Karn. So, why are you trying to paint me scummy for something that is painfully obvious?
I'm okay with lynching either TMCT or Sir Karn at the moment.
I still don't follow.
Sorry. Apparently I'm mentally inept.
Have you ever been in a game with noob-scum?
If so, how did they act when thier teamates were bussing them?
It's Hip to be a Square
Vote: The Most Curious Thing
My usage of 'not' was a bit ambiguous the first time around. I tried to correct it last post, but it may have compounded the issue.
Here is the start:
Rather than talk with a high level of generality, I'm going to use the example of voting the mod.
You are claiming that if I vote the mod, I am generally acting scummy.
Also, if I vote another player in the game, it yields information about me.
In both cases, you are gaining information about the me. In both cases, people are reacting (genuinely) to my vote. Aside from a possible RVS L-2 or lynch in the case of voting another player (which don't happen on MTGS in my experience), I fail to see how the two differ in what they accomplish.
Honestly, I would have to go back and reread my games to check. I have definitely been in a game with noob-scum, but not sure there was a lot of bussing. Are you implying that a noob-scum is being bussed in this game? If not, what are you driving at?
A theroy right now. Not enough evidence yet to say, but I figured it was worth a question.
It's Hip to be a Square
Psst, I think you just unvoted your vote on them to vote them agian.
Any particular reason for this?
It's Hip to be a Square
Archae (2): Sir Karn, The Most Curious Thing
Rodemy (2): swishh, Kazekirimaru
Sir Karn (1): arbitraryarmor
Rancid Raptor (1): Cythare
The Most Curious Thing (1): Void
Not Voting (5): Archae, Cantripmancer, Kosakosa, Rancid Raptor, Rodemy
With 12 alive, it is 7 votes to lynch!
I'll answer questions either later tonight or tomorrow morning.
You missed what happened. IN my quote wall I had voted for Archae, but in the end attempted to vote for TMCT, but didn't, because I had not unvoted.
So the post you are quoting is me getting my vote where I intended it to be, on TMCT.
Any questions?
You don't need to unvote to change your vote in Seppel games.
I wasn't a fan of the way RancidRaptor tried to turn this on you instead of simply pointing this out. Then again, I'm not a fan of RancidRaptor.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
There goes my idea for a RR fan club.
It's Hip to be a Square
I need to get use to Seppel's rules.
Nor am I. Albeit, it's one of the weaker reasons to suspect RR at this point.
I'm aware it's not the strongest point, but I already suspect him, and I'm not going to discount something I find off just because it isn't damning by itself.
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
I wasn't asking you to discount anything. I was meerly pointing something out.