I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
What does everyone else think of Okarin right now? I'm especially curious what my town reads think. (ITF, iRebel, and maybe Gifts) And please say what makes you have that opinion.
I'm a little flabbergasted by the vote on him, tbh I don't know what this scum tell you're talking about is. I am leaning scum on him though, I don't like #164
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I have a PR, but I'm a woodwind. If you read between the lines, you should be able to figure out what I am.
***
Huh?
On Okarin: I need to see more from him; #164 was his only real post this game. I wanna know his experience, and I wanna know why he choose to FoS Trix rather than vote him.
Seems to be tunneling on Asenion which makes sense considering (1) Asenion has been acting scummy and (2) he has claimed that he hasn't played Mafia in four years. He also did not get Asenion's joke and has been riding his vote since then.
Rhand, would you care to respond to my comments on you, or do you have more diversions?
There was nothing being discussed that needed my input and I saw some possible rvs tells that weren't explored yet. I'm not sure how you're seeing that as scummy. I did give my input on the mechanical going ons. Is that an answer to your question?
Your answer to my question is pretty evasive. You say you see him committing something negative (tunnelling) to then defend said behaviour without committing to a read.
Playing with friends is weird, because now I am going to unvote, vote arm, and I feel sad about it
I present evidence when I'm discussing a read on players. I try to make my evidence support a logical conclusion based upon what I am saying. The fact that I don't outline or draw a direct opinion on said evidence is not something I feel comfortable doing at such an early juncture. Call it "summarizing" (to use the terminology Asenion is using) if you like. We are looking at a very finite source of information here. Some players haven't even posted since RVS ended.
My point on you, Rhand, is that you seem so preoccupied analyzing RVS silliness that you've eschewed everything else that has occurred so far. You've told Asenion to stop dumping information. Have you developed a read on Asenion?
I just find it awkward the Pinky's asked for my reads, and I delivered them on three players that I'm compiling evidence against to make a solid case, and now all three of those players have laid down votes against me. Iso was voting prior to the reads, but it still strikes me as odd.
As for the whole friends thing, mafia is about playing to the best of your abilities. If I had to check my reads against my friends, there would probably be a majority of players I would not vote against. I have a thick skin. Don't worry about it.
So basically you're saying that there's not enough info for you to develop reads but I should've used said non-existing info to develop mine?
My analysis was not of RVS silliness; it was of behaviour that occured after RVS was finished.
I do have a read on Asenion. I think he's town. He reads genuine; I just don't like how he's throwing so much info out there.
Why not unvote iRebel?
... Vote: ImTehFairy. Keeping your RVS vote on someone after RVS is often a tell (scum!iRebel did that in MTGS mafia)
Because I didn't have anywhere better to put my vote at the time.
It was scummy for iRebel in MTGS mafia because his RVS vote was on a relevant wagon, and he kept it waaaaay past RVS.
But why not just unvote after RVS? Do you never do that?
iRebel is obvTown, so there's no benefit in keeping your vote on him; iRebel was lucky in MTGS that his original vote became a real wagon.
@ITF: I would also request a soloist claim as scum if I felt it would benefit my team. I wouldn't write it off as townIso just because it's ballsy - see CCMVI for why.
This is odd. Why bring that up? Is this a hidden accusation to ITF?
I have a PR, but I'm a woodwind. If you read between the lines, you should be able to figure out what I am.
***
Huh?
On Okarin: I need to see more from him; #164 was his only real post this game. I wanna know his experience, and I wanna know why he choose to FoS Trix rather than vote him.
I have a PR, but I'm a woodwind. If you read between the lines, you should be able to figure out what I am.
***
What are you trying to accomplish with this post?
Um, Rebel and Asenion asked who the extra people were that had Post Restrictions. That post was simply to show one of the people that had a post restriction that they had not noticed.
So basically you're saying that there's not enough info for you to develop reads but I should've used said non-existing info to develop mine?
My analysis was not of RVS silliness; it was of behaviour that occured after RVS was finished.
I do have a read on Asenion. I think he's town. He reads genuine; I just don't like how he's throwing so much info out there.
But I did list my reads? I'm confused where this is coming from. Pinky's asked me for my reads and I responded with the people I felt unsure of at the time.
Iso: I really didn't like the hypocrisy of voting for Asenion one minute and then advocating for something similar to the reason he voted in the first place. (Albeit, I will take the point there there is a difference between a mass and instrument claim.)
Asenion: I just was concerened that there were ulterior motives on his part for finding the Piccolo.
And you, Rhand: I just find the preccupation of RVS a dodging some of the bigger issues going on right now. I know you don't see the "silliness", but you continue to approach people about minute decisions that they made during RVS that seem to have no importance to some of the content discussed much after RVS is over. Hell, in this post that I quoted you even go back yet again to RVS to discuss iRebel. What evidence during this period of the game is so damning that you keep on heading back to it?
I have a PR, but I'm a woodwind. If you read between the lines, you should be able to figure out what I am.
***
Huh?
On Okarin: I need to see more from him; #164 was his only real post this game. I wanna know his experience, and I wanna know why he choose to FoS Trix rather than vote him.
I have a PR, but I'm a woodwind. If you read between the lines, you should be able to figure out what I am.
***
What are you trying to accomplish with this post?
Um, Rebel and Asenion asked who the extra people were that had Post Restrictions. That post was simply to show one of the people that had a post restriction that they had not noticed.
Oh I misread that. I thought ITF was outing himself as PR and you were for some reason bolding that. Who in his right mind uses 'PR' as abbreviation for something else in this game anyways? lol
So basically you're saying that there's not enough info for you to develop reads but I should've used said non-existing info to develop mine?
My analysis was not of RVS silliness; it was of behaviour that occured after RVS was finished.
I do have a read on Asenion. I think he's town. He reads genuine; I just don't like how he's throwing so much info out there.
But I did list my reads? I'm confused where this is coming from. Pinky's asked me for my reads and I responded with the people I felt unsure of at the time.
Iso: I really didn't like the hypocrisy of voting for Asenion one minute and then advocating for something similar to the reason he voted in the first place. (Albeit, I will take the point there there is a difference between a mass and instrument claim.)
Asenion: I just was concerened that there were ulterior motives on his part for finding the Piccolo.
And you, Rhand: I just find the preccupation of RVS a dodging some of the bigger issues going on right now. I know you don't see the "silliness", but you continue to approach people about minute decisions that they made during RVS that seem to have no importance to some of the content discussed much after RVS is over. Hell, in this post that I quoted you even go back yet again to RVS to discuss iRebel. What evidence during this period of the game is so damning that you keep on heading back to it?
I'm not going back, I'm following up on my original questions.
Why exactly is it that "RVS and coming out of RVS"-tells should be ignored when the game reaches a certain amount of posts?
Like I said, all other routes were already being taken by others, and I saw possible tells that were not yet discussed.
It's scumhunting; something you're not doing. I'm willing to bet that I caught Okarin in his first post.
I'm willing to bet that I caught Okarin in his first post.
You mean the post where you waited 4 posts (#18, #20, #26, #90) before you first addressed it in #98? The post that you haven't commented on again until #208 or even mentioned any read or tell against Okarin since #98?
Explain to me how this constitutes you claiming that you "caught" Okarin again.
I'm willing to bet that I caught Okarin in his first post.
You mean the post where you waited 4 posts (#18, #20, #26, #90) before you first addressed it in #98? The post that you haven't commented on again until #208 or even mentioned any read or tell against Okarin since #98?
Explain to me how this constitutes you claiming that you "caught" Okarin again.
Weird, that quote was supposed to be from Rhand...
I'm willing to bet that I caught Okarin in his first post.
You mean the post where you waited 4 posts (#18, #20, #26, #90) before you first addressed it in #98? The post that you haven't commented on again until #208 or even mentioned any read or tell against Okarin since #98?
Explain to me how this constitutes you claiming that you "caught" Okarin again.
I wasn't paying attention to the game yet in my first 3 posts: I was enjoying RVS.
90 was input on the mechanical going-ons; I hadn't analysed what I read yet behaviourally.
98 was my analysis post. You can see in the timeframes that all I did between those two posts was get out of bed and analyse the game.
This is where I started looking into mindsets. The game was 1 day far at that point.
Someone who doesn't vote in RVS is always suspicious, and he admitted now that he was afraid of stepping on toes. Scum is afraid of stepping on toes. Okarin is probably scum. And I saw it in his first post.
The rest of your push is nonsense: Okarin hasn't posted until #164. In #165 I announce that I haven't had any time and will post the next day, which I do in #205 with (among other stuff) a follow-up on Okarin.
I'm willing to bet that I caught Okarin in his first post.
You mean the post where you waited 4 posts (#18, #20, #26, #90) before you first addressed it in #98? The post that you haven't commented on again until #208 or even mentioned any read or tell against Okarin since #98?
Explain to me how this constitutes you claiming that you "caught" Okarin again.
I wasn't paying attention to the game yet in my first 3 posts: I was enjoying RVS.
90 was input on the mechanical going-ons; I hadn't analysed what I read yet behaviourally.
98 was my analysis post. You can see in the timeframes that all I did between those two posts was get out of bed and analyse the game.
This is where I started looking into mindsets. The game was 1 day far at that point.
Someone who doesn't vote in RVS is always suspicious, and he admitted now that he was afraid of stepping on toes. Scum is afraid of stepping on toes. Okarin is probably scum. And I saw it in his first post.
The rest of your push is nonsense: Okarin hasn't posted until #164. In #165 I announce that I haven't had any time and will post the next day, which I do in #205 with (among other stuff) a follow-up on Okarin.
Asenion commentated that your vote on me was opportunistic due to the fact that others had laid a vote on me. This push on Okarin seems just as opportunistic.
Am I wrong to find you claiming you "caught" Okarin questionable? Especially after other players have shifted their attention onto him? Especially when you don't even have your vote on him at this juncture?
There's nothing oppurtunistic about my Okarin push. I was the first to push him and his answer to me convinces me of his alignment. Get your facts straight.
I'm not voting him because my vote is on another probable scum.
Why not unvote iRebel?
... Vote: ImTehFairy. Keeping your RVS vote on someone after RVS is often a tell (scum!iRebel did that in MTGS mafia)
Because I didn't have anywhere better to put my vote at the time.
It was scummy for iRebel in MTGS mafia because his RVS vote was on a relevant wagon, and he kept it waaaaay past RVS.
Wouldn't a better place to have put your RVS vote been back in your pocket? Keeping it on iRebel implied that you saw something about iRebel that merited a continued vote, no?
I'd like dan to tell me what he thinks of you and/or Rhand before responding. I hate to keep putting off my reasoning, but it really does depend on what dan says.
Nis and Rhand need to comment on current events. Both of you have my attention.
Forgive my time zone. Sometimes events happen when I'm not at a computer. Here's my input:
Tan completely ignored my request for his reasons that put Rhand, ITF, and dan in his town pile and how they are shared with Asen.
iRebel is slightly buddying both ITF (181) and Iso (181, 185).
I'm still not sure whether Okarin is a gimmick or a newbie. Gut says newbie given how vote shy he is. He appears to show a real lack of understanding of the meta and common tells. If he is a gimmick, he's playing the newbie card very well.
Tan completely ignored my request for his reasons that put Rhand, ITF, and dan in his town pile and how they are shared with Asen.
Just a quick post as I have to head to work, but read the section to iRebel and others in post #190. That should have everything you asked for.
You said you put Rhand, ITF, and dan in your town pile because of reasons that are shared with Asen. 190 states that you found Asen town because he has a posting restriction and he spilled info into the thread. When I asked you for reasons we didn't know ITF had a posting restriction and we still don't know if Rhand and dan have posting restrictions. When I asked for reasons we knew that both Rhand and dan didn't like Asen spilling info (112, 113) and we know that ITF was against a mass claim and an instrument claim (77).
I submit you have no reasons for putting Rhand, ITF, and dan in your town pile alongside Asen. The reasons you stated for Asen certainly don't apply to the other three.
Not voting (4) - GiftsTrix, ganderin_dan, iRebel, Okarin
I understand about indecision, but I don't care if I get behind. People living in competition, all I want is to have my peace of mind.
- Boston, Peace Of Mind
This is odd. Why bring that up? Is this a hidden accusation to ITF?
If you had read ITF's post that I was responding to, you would know exactly what I'm saying. ITF said that he didn't think scumIso would make such a ballsy move. I disagreed and cited an example as to why.
Iso: I really didn't like the hypocrisy of voting for Asenion one minute and then advocating for something similar to the reason he voted in the first place. (Albeit, I will take the point there there is a difference between a mass and instrument claim.)
I was not for a massclaim. I am for a mass instrument claim. There is, in fact, a fundamental difference. In addition, as I stated, I voted Asenion for his falseclaim. Why are you still hung up on this?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Iso: I did read that post from ITF. I just think it's weird that you bring up your own scum meta to show that you might be scum when someone has a town read on you.
Iso: I really didn't like the hypocrisy of voting for Asenion one minute and then advocating for something similar to the reason he voted in the first place. (Albeit, I will take the point there there is a difference between a mass and instrument claim.)
I was not for a massclaim. I am for a mass instrument claim. There is, in fact, a fundamental difference. In addition, as I stated, I voted Asenion for his falseclaim. Why are you still hung up on this?
I was simply reiterating my reads on you in a prior post. I was hung up on it at the time because I was really quite concerned on the effect it would have on the town. I suppose an instrument claim would not be too bad after the Piccolo stepped forward and the game didn't implode. I was just very concerned with any ulterior motives that players may have had in revealing the soloist. If I was the Piccolo I probably would not have claimed; but since the person who is did so, I'm not going to push the fact that you and Asenion pushed the fact so much. Unless, of course, something happens between now and night.
Quite simply, Asenion has stated in this thread that in his flavor there is a mention of one of the scum's instrument. I felt that if Asenion had flavor about a specific instrument (whether or not he was town or scum) that it is a possibility that other people (including scum) have flavor mentioning specific instruments as well.
That... makes no sense. They already know who's not scum...
And even if their flavor would mention PR's (which I doubt): would the town then implode on 1 piccolo claim? for all we know, the piccolo isn't even town.
And furthermore, if that piccolo is mentioned in their flavor, why would town implode on the Day the piccolo claimed? Maybe they can only do something at night with the info?
That... makes no sense. They already know who's not scum...
And even if their flavor would mention PR's (which I doubt): would the town then implode on 1 piccolo claim? for all we know, the piccolo isn't even town.
And furthermore, if that piccolo is mentioned in their flavor, why would town implode on the Day the piccolo claimed? Maybe they can only do something at night with the info?
Because I'm not going to setup game when it's already been revealed that instruments are a key component to the way things work. Sure, you can ask all those hypothetical questions about my logic, but I can simply ask the same questions in a reverse way. You asked for my explanation of the "implosion" and I gave it to you instead of skirting around the issue.
Iso: I did read that post from ITF. I just think it's weird that you bring up your own scum meta to show that you might be scum when someone has a town read on you.
It's not meta. I'm just saying that it's dumb to discount me as scum when I've done things far more insane than that as scum. If you're gonna have a town read on me, have it for the right reasons, ya dig?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Before I forget: I want every person who thinks an instrument claim is a bad idea, to explain in detail why it's a bad idea.
It might just be me seeing ghosts, but this looks like a post that scum in the dark would make.
I saw multiple people disagree with a mass instrument claim and have no reasons. I get better reads when people explain there thought process, which I pointed out in a previous post comparing rhand post and tricks.
@tan: why would you think a post restriction claim would only be town?
I was in a mini game called black and white mafia on mafia scum where the mod gave town and scum post restrictions. Plus all that only town would have a restriction is just modgaming. People should always be evaluated by game play .
Will catch up either Friday or this weekend.
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mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
Iso: I did read that post from ITF. I just think it's weird that you bring up your own scum meta to show that you might be scum when someone has a town read on you.
It's not meta. I'm just saying that it's dumb to discount me as scum when I've done things far more insane than that as scum. If you're gonna have a town read on me, have it for the right reasons, ya dig?
Yeh but still, causing people to question their town read on you is weird. It seems better to discuss such things postgame.
But anyways, enough about that. I'm not getting a read out of this.
Two people a majority/concensus does not make.
@Nis: Lean town on Rhand based on his meta, no read really on ITF (I can't explain why, honestly. Nothing is really pulling me in either direction). I don't quite understand why my reads dictate your opinion so much.
It is also my opinion that the RVS vote tell thing you're bringing up is pretty silly.
Unrelated, the FoS tell tends to be above-average for inexperienced players, so we need that gimmick question answered.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
That line caught my attention as well, especially after I went off on her to read the thread initially back in post #81. You would think after re-reading that she would have caught on. Now, there is a chance she is just being lazy town here, but I dunno.
What do you think of 227? What is your read on P_B, and could you explain as to why?
Did you glean anything interesting from the provided vote count?
@Nis: [/B]Lean town on Rhand based on his meta, no read really on ITF (I can't explain why, honestly. Nothing is really pulling me in either direction). I don't quite understand why my reads dictate your opinion so much.
Thank you. Now I can explain why I've been looking at you, Rhand, and ITF. I actually liked Rhand's 98 because it does bring up a valid question for ITF. I was curious if you had anything to say about it because you liked when Rhand brought up RVS behavior when in regards to Okarin. I wanted to see if you were just being opportunistic or if you would be consistent.
It is also my opinion that the RVS vote tell thing you're bringing up is pretty silly.
Rhand brought it up. I thought it was good question for ITF and I didn't like his answer. Keeping an RVS vote on someone because you had no one better to vote for is horrible reasoning.
@Nis: Is there anything else you have to add to this game other then speculation?
How am I the one speculating? I tried to head off speculation on whether or not Dr. Polyopticon is a player at this time. It's a rabbit hole that doesn't need to be explored right now. Your attempt to mischaracterize the situation has been noted.
Nis’ reaction sounds like something cousinly to ‘omgus’ (I’m noticing it's something Pinky commented on already though)
I just find it awkward the Pinky's asked for my reads, and I delivered them on three players that I'm compiling evidence against to make a solid case, and now all three of those players have laid down votes against me. Iso was voting prior to the reads, but it still strikes me as odd.
This is the most passive OMGUS I've ever seen.
There was something that made me pause when I read this, but I couldn’t tell what, so I didn’t comment, but that’s a good way of putting it, I suppose.
Well, I'm pretty sure Okarin is a gimick given he's flat out ignored the request for previous Mafia experience. He's also a newly registered account too.
I don't like this comment from him:
Asenion is a little too eager to scumhunt, too quick, too concerned 48.
(post 164)
Sounds like he is implying Asenion is scum because he's actively scum hunting, which is contradictory to me. It also comes across as if he's trying to compensate for being completely inactive thus far.
The rest of his post is just short comments, with no real scum hunting that I see.
I did the same thing in MTGS Mafia and it was considered a scum read (though I had my reasons, which are neither here nor there), so right now I have a slight scum read. He needs to start posting real content.
I have not flat out ignored anything (although tempting) and I’m not a gimmick. I’m new, but what sort of idiot do you take me for to be making that contradiction? It seemed like he was going into it with overly exaggerated desire; I didn’t even say he was actively doing it. Also, in the last portion of my quote, I meant he (Asenion) is too concerned in post 48.
@Oakrin RE: Post 164: OK, Why do you feel that being "Eager" to scumhunt is a bad thing? Almost sounds like you are trying to say he is "Too Townie", and that just does not jive with me.
Also, how was what Asenion said in post #67 "unnatural"? You kinda leave everyone hanging here.
And as others have said, why the FoS in your first post? Especially given you seem to have a solid read on GT. It makes me feel as if you are trying to "commit" to a wagon without actually committing to it.
The exaggerated scumhunting or desire of was not natural. Other things I touched--I think, because they were redundant with other people’s enquiries.
I'm still not sure whether Okarin is a gimmick or a newbie. Gut says newbie given how vote shy he is. He appears to show a real lack of understanding of the meta and common tells. If he is a gimmick, he's playing the newbie card very well.
You’re wrong about one thing, maybe 1.5… 1) I probably only understand the common tells at this point and 1.5) I think I know what meta is, but it’s completely foreign to me because I don’t know you people and I’d rather drill a hole in my knee than read that many games (though I plan to read some so I can understand more tells).
@iRebel (I meant to include for clarity:) The 'exaggerated desire to scum hunt' on part of Asenion at the beginning of the game struck me as falsified.
@Okarin: You are new, understandable. Also, welcome! Is this your first game of forum mafia on any site, or just your first on MTGS? If you have been on other sites, which? Also have you read any games here fully?
I really don't understand this discussion about RVS actions being brought up. Simply not unvoting a random vote, especially when it's not a contribution to a supported wagon doesn't seem scummy to me at all. It's a tad sloppy, maybe a little lazy even, but not a scum tell.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Okarin: can you make a T/S list? (if you don't know what it is: you put everyone in a list from most town to most scum with a bit of reasoning for each player)
Limited Access through probably Monday evening. Desktop crapped out on me and I'll be able to view the thread on my iPad, but long responses are difficult on it because the browser crashes constantly. I'll keep notes on everything anyone wants me to respond to and get on it as soon as possible.
I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
Rhand, I know what that is and you’re asking for far too much, but I’ll try to oblige you best I can.
Scumspects: Asenion, for reasons just explained, though, I felt less so about him as the game went on.
Trix: Probably my number one scumspect, despite being well spoken, he hasn’t said anything since my last post to make me think better of him.
Nis: Makes short posts, which is greatly appreciated, but I haven’t felt the substance if there has been any.
Fairy: Makes good observations, as he should; couldn’t afford crappy ones and sound like he’s not trying, but I’d bet he’d buss hard with his posting style.
Iso: Voting me quickly without any apparent reasoning, but go ahead, make your case sound real now that I’ve probably provoked you
If I put Hand here, it may sound personal but he’s been pushing for my lynch a little too hard, otherwise, I didn’t have anything on him nor the rest: T. I’ll obviously reread and maybe get more.
@Trix and all else: Go break a leg meta analysing me, I was Duca Luca in Vampire Mafia. (Don't worry, I won't have another alias for my next game; I'll be keeping to these two) That is the extent of my mafia experience and also it's basically as far as I've read.
Nis: Makes short posts, which is greatly appreciated, but I haven’t felt the substance if there has been any.
Why are shorter posts appreciated? This whole sentence just doesn't sit right with me; you're happy about shorter posts but critical of a lack of substance. 2+2 =/= 5
Fairy: Makes good observations, as he should; couldn’t afford crappy ones and sound like he’s not trying, but I’d bet he’d buss hard with his posting style.
What makes you say ITF couldn't afford "crappy" observations? Elaborate on your train of thought please.
Your posting style just seems... off. I can't quite articulate what about it bothers me, but it does.
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I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
Posts, long and short, can have substance -- I highlighted the quote because it read as if you were criticising Nis for not having any substance whilst thanking him for his short posts. That seemed contradictory to me.
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I don't have any hard numbers on this, but I'm targeted more often than a black guy driving a beat-up sedan with a broken tail-light and no license plate, and Cy's well aware of that.
UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls
RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty
UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
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I'm a little flabbergasted by the vote on him, tbh I don't know what this scum tell you're talking about is. I am leaning scum on him though, I don't like #164
Sigil: an MMORPCCG ">Mexus: An MMORPCCG
My mistake.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Huh?
On Okarin: I need to see more from him; #164 was his only real post this game. I wanna know his experience, and I wanna know why he choose to FoS Trix rather than vote him.
So basically you're saying that there's not enough info for you to develop reads but I should've used said non-existing info to develop mine?
My analysis was not of RVS silliness; it was of behaviour that occured after RVS was finished.
I do have a read on Asenion. I think he's town. He reads genuine; I just don't like how he's throwing so much info out there.
But why not just unvote after RVS? Do you never do that?
iRebel is obvTown, so there's no benefit in keeping your vote on him; iRebel was lucky in MTGS that his original vote became a real wagon.
This is odd. Why bring that up? Is this a hidden accusation to ITF?
Why are you afraid of stepping on them?
What are you trying to accomplish with this post?
Um, Rebel and Asenion asked who the extra people were that had Post Restrictions. That post was simply to show one of the people that had a post restriction that they had not noticed.
But I did list my reads? I'm confused where this is coming from. Pinky's asked me for my reads and I responded with the people I felt unsure of at the time.
Iso: I really didn't like the hypocrisy of voting for Asenion one minute and then advocating for something similar to the reason he voted in the first place. (Albeit, I will take the point there there is a difference between a mass and instrument claim.)
Asenion: I just was concerened that there were ulterior motives on his part for finding the Piccolo.
And you, Rhand: I just find the preccupation of RVS a dodging some of the bigger issues going on right now. I know you don't see the "silliness", but you continue to approach people about minute decisions that they made during RVS that seem to have no importance to some of the content discussed much after RVS is over. Hell, in this post that I quoted you even go back yet again to RVS to discuss iRebel. What evidence during this period of the game is so damning that you keep on heading back to it?
Oh I misread that. I thought ITF was outing himself as PR and you were for some reason bolding that. Who in his right mind uses 'PR' as abbreviation for something else in this game anyways? lol
I'm not going back, I'm following up on my original questions.
Why exactly is it that "RVS and coming out of RVS"-tells should be ignored when the game reaches a certain amount of posts?
Like I said, all other routes were already being taken by others, and I saw possible tells that were not yet discussed.
It's scumhunting; something you're not doing. I'm willing to bet that I caught Okarin in his first post.
You mean the post where you waited 4 posts (#18, #20, #26, #90) before you first addressed it in #98? The post that you haven't commented on again until #208 or even mentioned any read or tell against Okarin since #98?
Explain to me how this constitutes you claiming that you "caught" Okarin again.
Weird, that quote was supposed to be from Rhand...
I wasn't paying attention to the game yet in my first 3 posts: I was enjoying RVS.
90 was input on the mechanical going-ons; I hadn't analysed what I read yet behaviourally.
98 was my analysis post. You can see in the timeframes that all I did between those two posts was get out of bed and analyse the game.
This is where I started looking into mindsets. The game was 1 day far at that point.
Someone who doesn't vote in RVS is always suspicious, and he admitted now that he was afraid of stepping on toes. Scum is afraid of stepping on toes. Okarin is probably scum. And I saw it in his first post.
The rest of your push is nonsense: Okarin hasn't posted until #164. In #165 I announce that I haven't had any time and will post the next day, which I do in #205 with (among other stuff) a follow-up on Okarin.
Asenion commentated that your vote on me was opportunistic due to the fact that others had laid a vote on me. This push on Okarin seems just as opportunistic.
Am I wrong to find you claiming you "caught" Okarin questionable? Especially after other players have shifted their attention onto him? Especially when you don't even have your vote on him at this juncture?
I'm not buying what you're selling here, Rhand.
Vote Rhand
I'm not voting him because my vote is on another probable scum.
Wouldn't a better place to have put your RVS vote been back in your pocket? Keeping it on iRebel implied that you saw something about iRebel that merited a continued vote, no?
I'd like dan to tell me what he thinks of you and/or Rhand before responding. I hate to keep putting off my reasoning, but it really does depend on what dan says.
Forgive my time zone. Sometimes events happen when I'm not at a computer. Here's my input:
[card=Jace Beleren]Jace[/card] = Jace
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
Just a quick post as I have to head to work, but read the section to iRebel and others in post #190. That should have everything you asked for.
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You said you put Rhand, ITF, and dan in your town pile because of reasons that are shared with Asen. 190 states that you found Asen town because he has a posting restriction and he spilled info into the thread. When I asked you for reasons we didn't know ITF had a posting restriction and we still don't know if Rhand and dan have posting restrictions. When I asked for reasons we knew that both Rhand and dan didn't like Asen spilling info (112, 113) and we know that ITF was against a mass claim and an instrument claim (77).
I submit you have no reasons for putting Rhand, ITF, and dan in your town pile alongside Asen. The reasons you stated for Asen certainly don't apply to the other three.
Vote: Tanarin
[card=Jace Beleren]Jace[/card] = Jace
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Arnnaria (2) - Asenion, Rhand
GiftsTrix (2) - ImTehFairy, Tanarin
Tanarin (2) - pinkys_brain, Nis
Okarin (1) - Iso
Rhand (1) - Arnnaria
Not voting (4) - GiftsTrix, ganderin_dan, iRebel, Okarin
I understand about indecision, but I don't care if I get behind. People living in competition, all I want is to have my peace of mind.
- Boston, Peace Of Mind
If you had read ITF's post that I was responding to, you would know exactly what I'm saying. ITF said that he didn't think scumIso would make such a ballsy move. I disagreed and cited an example as to why.
I was not for a massclaim. I am for a mass instrument claim. There is, in fact, a fundamental difference. In addition, as I stated, I voted Asenion for his falseclaim. Why are you still hung up on this?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I was simply reiterating my reads on you in a prior post. I was hung up on it at the time because I was really quite concerned on the effect it would have on the town. I suppose an instrument claim would not be too bad after the Piccolo stepped forward and the game didn't implode. I was just very concerned with any ulterior motives that players may have had in revealing the soloist. If I was the Piccolo I probably would not have claimed; but since the person who is did so, I'm not going to push the fact that you and Asenion pushed the fact so much. Unless, of course, something happens between now and night.
Quite simply, Asenion has stated in this thread that in his flavor there is a mention of one of the scum's instrument. I felt that if Asenion had flavor about a specific instrument (whether or not he was town or scum) that it is a possibility that other people (including scum) have flavor mentioning specific instruments as well.
And even if their flavor would mention PR's (which I doubt): would the town then implode on 1 piccolo claim? for all we know, the piccolo isn't even town.
And furthermore, if that piccolo is mentioned in their flavor, why would town implode on the Day the piccolo claimed? Maybe they can only do something at night with the info?
Because I'm not going to setup game when it's already been revealed that instruments are a key component to the way things work. Sure, you can ask all those hypothetical questions about my logic, but I can simply ask the same questions in a reverse way. You asked for my explanation of the "implosion" and I gave it to you instead of skirting around the issue.
It's not meta. I'm just saying that it's dumb to discount me as scum when I've done things far more insane than that as scum. If you're gonna have a town read on me, have it for the right reasons, ya dig?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I saw multiple people disagree with a mass instrument claim and have no reasons. I get better reads when people explain there thought process, which I pointed out in a previous post comparing rhand post and tricks.
@tan: why would you think a post restriction claim would only be town?
I was in a mini game called black and white mafia on mafia scum where the mod gave town and scum post restrictions. Plus all that only town would have a restriction is just modgaming. People should always be evaluated by game play .
Will catch up either Friday or this weekend.
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
Yeh but still, causing people to question their town read on you is weird. It seems better to discuss such things postgame.
But anyways, enough about that. I'm not getting a read out of this.
@Nis: Lean town on Rhand based on his meta, no read really on ITF (I can't explain why, honestly. Nothing is really pulling me in either direction). I don't quite understand why my reads dictate your opinion so much.
It is also my opinion that the RVS vote tell thing you're bringing up is pretty silly.
Unrelated, the FoS tell tends to be above-average for inexperienced players, so we need that gimmick question answered. Nope, just (likely) one of the stronger ones that justifies a RB. Why don't those posts impact your read?
@Tan:^
@Rhand: Why is iRebel obvtown?
The conversation between Arn & Rhand is quite odd, but is most likely town v. town.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
What do you think of 227? What is your read on P_B, and could you explain as to why?
Did you glean anything interesting from the provided vote count?
Sigil: an MMORPCCG ">Mexus: An MMORPCCG
Thank you. Now I can explain why I've been looking at you, Rhand, and ITF. I actually liked Rhand's 98 because it does bring up a valid question for ITF. I was curious if you had anything to say about it because you liked when Rhand brought up RVS behavior when in regards to Okarin. I wanted to see if you were just being opportunistic or if you would be consistent.
Rhand brought it up. I thought it was good question for ITF and I didn't like his answer. Keeping an RVS vote on someone because you had no one better to vote for is horrible reasoning.
[card=Jace Beleren]Jace[/card] = Jace
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
He scumhunts.
Nis’ reaction sounds like something cousinly to ‘omgus’ (I’m noticing it's something Pinky commented on already though)
Nis is very defensive. And noting Pinky’s ‘attempt to mischaracterise the situation’ is closer to calling her scummy than calling her town.
Maybe, if they know something about the soloists.. otherwise they might as well be rolling a die or not choosing.
There was something that made me pause when I read this, but I couldn’t tell what, so I didn’t comment, but that’s a good way of putting it, I suppose.
I suppose I’m just not as aggressive a player as you veterans.
Minimal. I’m familiar with the mechanics, but I know half your weird acronyms and random words (like barn, which I couldn’t even find on mafia wiki).
I have not flat out ignored anything (although tempting) and I’m not a gimmick. I’m new, but what sort of idiot do you take me for to be making that contradiction? It seemed like he was going into it with overly exaggerated desire; I didn’t even say he was actively doing it. Also, in the last portion of my quote, I meant he (Asenion) is too concerned in post 48.
The exaggerated scumhunting or desire of was not natural. Other things I touched--I think, because they were redundant with other people’s enquiries.
You’re wrong about one thing, maybe 1.5… 1) I probably only understand the common tells at this point and 1.5) I think I know what meta is, but it’s completely foreign to me because I don’t know you people and I’d rather drill a hole in my knee than read that many games (though I plan to read some so I can understand more tells).
I really don't understand this discussion about RVS actions being brought up. Simply not unvoting a random vote, especially when it's not a contribution to a supported wagon doesn't seem scummy to me at all. It's a tad sloppy, maybe a little lazy even, but not a scum tell.
Sigil: an MMORPCCG ">Mexus: An MMORPCCG
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
My cube: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/9981
UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls
RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty
UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
Mafia Stats
Scumspects: Asenion, for reasons just explained, though, I felt less so about him as the game went on.
Trix: Probably my number one scumspect, despite being well spoken, he hasn’t said anything since my last post to make me think better of him.
Nis: Makes short posts, which is greatly appreciated, but I haven’t felt the substance if there has been any.
Fairy: Makes good observations, as he should; couldn’t afford crappy ones and sound like he’s not trying, but I’d bet he’d buss hard with his posting style.
Iso: Voting me quickly without any apparent reasoning, but go ahead, make your case sound real now that I’ve probably provoked you
If I put Hand here, it may sound personal but he’s been pushing for my lynch a little too hard, otherwise, I didn’t have anything on him nor the rest: T. I’ll obviously reread and maybe get more.
@Trix and all else: Go break a leg meta analysing me, I was Duca Luca in Vampire Mafia. (Don't worry, I won't have another alias for my next game; I'll be keeping to these two) That is the extent of my mafia experience and also it's basically as far as I've read.
Why are shorter posts appreciated? This whole sentence just doesn't sit right with me; you're happy about shorter posts but critical of a lack of substance. 2+2 =/= 5
What makes you say ITF couldn't afford "crappy" observations? Elaborate on your train of thought please.
Your posting style just seems... off. I can't quite articulate what about it bothers me, but it does.
UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls
RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty
UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
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Scum Fairy couldn't afford crappy (made up/weak) observations, so I take them for sound ones.
UUU Azami, Lady of Scrolls
RRR Diaochan, Artful Beauty
UR(U/R) Tibor, Lumia, & Melek (WIP)
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I'm can't decide whether he's newb scum making a slip or newb town putting his foot in his mouth. His most recent post reads as almost a dare.
[card=Jace Beleren]Jace[/card] = Jace
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.