MTG Salvation

Quote from Iso

inb4 Rhand says "I KNEW ISO WAS A CULTIST/WASN'T TOWN/WAS SCUM" etc.

I wasn't anti-town and that's what matters here.

Did you really think I was scum?

Quote from Rhand

Quote from Iso

inb4 Rhand says "I KNEW ISO WAS A CULTIST/WASN'T TOWN/WAS SCUM" etc.

I wasn't anti-town and that's what matters here.

Did you really think I was scum?

I thought there were 3 scum and that you were scum with EtR and Proph.

I also really wanted you to die because you weren't going to let up off of me.

Quote from iRebel

So I don't know if this is bad form or not, and if it is I apologise, but I'd like to ask for some feedback on my play (especially from Iso). If there's any questions about what I did/didn't do/said/whatever, I would definitely like to try and field them.

This is only my third full game, so I know I have a lot of room to improve, and having feedback from others will help me improve my game.

You were the towniest player in the game. The only thing ever to give me doubt was poe, and you can't influence that.

Quote from Iso

Quote from Rhand

Quote from Iso

inb4 Rhand says "I KNEW ISO WAS A CULTIST/WASN'T TOWN/WAS SCUM" etc.

I wasn't anti-town and that's what matters here.

Did you really think I was scum?

I thought there were 3 scum and that you were scum with EtR and Proph.

I also really wanted you to die because you weren't going to let up off of me.

I couldn't convince anyone to lynch you anyways, you big pile of Omgus

you, Rhand

Next time I really hope we are on the same team.
You almost got me to quit mafia

Final Votecount - With 3 alive, that's a lynch!

EtR (2) - Iso, Nis

Not Voting (1) - EtR

EtR, Nick Nitpick Piccolo (Mafia Roleblocker) has been lynched.

We are ready for the siege,
we are armed up to the teeth
Be careful how you live and breathe.
release what's brewing underneath.
Silversun Pickups, The Royal We (Courtesy, f'reals this time, of Prophylaxis)

==========================================================================

With a sweeping flourish, Velvet Violet Violin, Concertmaster brought her bow-baton down and out, signifying the end of the concert. The audience burst into applause, rising to their feet, acclaiming for an encore.

Knowing to always leave them wanting more, Velvet simply moved aside and graciously indicated her orchestra, pride nearly bursting the strings from her neck.

Bad, Bad, Bassoon Brown crooned a few sombre notes, trying his best to look nonchalant, but already mentally composing verse to do justice to the performance they had just nailed. Hippy Harpy knew what the audience loved to hear and strummed each of her strings in turn.

The spotlight glinted off of Frenchie Horn's beaming brass and she, too, beamed at another performance well done, then almost jumped as a rumble of thunder resounded; Tim "Donut" Panic couldn't resist giving the audience a thrill.

The Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy From Company B let loose a flurry of jazz riffs: exactly eight. Granny Hairnet Claire and Tootsie Piper performed a short jigging duet of spritely energy and enjoyment of togetherness, but the end was almost drowned out by the signature slide from The 76th Trombone, who was anxious to get in on the recognition.

Only Yoko Oboe took her moment of recognition in complete silence, glancing warily at Velvet as she did so. The two shared a moment where the rest of the clamour faded away and each realized that they--and they alone--shared the confusion of suddenly being in the midst of a to-the-second-perfect performance and not on a nearly-empty stage filled with mangled instruments and death.

Both had vague, blurry images in their minds of a gong and a piccolo, but trying to focus on them was fuzzy, like staring through an aquarium. Yoko had the sneaking suspicion that next week...maybe even tomorrow, even those obscure memories would no longer be retrievable.

Up on the podium, Velvet swept her bow-baton across one more time, watching her instruments take a final bow as the audience screamed and whistled. She glanced over at the banner arching the entrance and smiled. "Velvet Violin's Virtuosos," it read, and Velvet knew that none of the others had even a ghost of a memory of Dr. Polyopticon.

==========================================================================

The Town and the Neutral Cult of Anarchy Leader have won!

Congratulations to 7hawk77, Asenion, ganderin_dan, Haiiro Sedai (GiftsTrix), iRebel, Nis, Rhand, Tanarin, Zinger2099, and Iso!

Spectator Chat
Mafia Chat
Night 1 Mason Chat
Night 2 Mason Chat
Proph's Scum Notes

Thanks Cantripmancer; the flavor was wonderful.

Anyone want to explain why I was the night kill Night 1? Also, nice job protecting me Nis. Sadly, I canceled your protection because I made the soloist "Unable to have your actions interfered with toNight." and that included making the Doc unable to stop his kill.

So I basically killed myself.

Happy ending.

Thanks for an excellent game, Cantrip.

What would have happened flavor-wise in the event that:

EtR and I had lynched Nis?
Nis and EtR had lynched me?
I had not won and the town did?
I had not won and the mafia did?

I'm curious.

Quote from iRebel

So I don't know if this is bad form or not, and if it is I apologise, but I'd like to ask for some feedback on my play (especially from Iso). If there's any questions about what I did/didn't do/said/whatever, I would definitely like to try and field them.

This is only my third full game, so I know I have a lot of room to improve, and having feedback from others will help me improve my game.

iRebel, you went from a non-threat (if you read my scum analysis of you at night one) to the person I most wanted to get rid of as soon as possible. Your play was basically confirmed Town after your alliance with Iso. You played really well from my end I often had to ignore you completely because you were making a lot of logical sense. You never really called me out on me ignoring you, so that wasn't too shabby of a strategy for me.

The only thing "constructive" I would add is that gaming the mod is often too much of a distraction. I understand it makes sense in your head, but you don't need to spell it out completely. Take your opinions about what is going on in the game, and simply translate to basic town speak.

But overall your play was really good.

Ok, so I'm going to start this post by saying that I learned A CRAPLOAD about modding and abilities this game, and I can't express my thanks enough for so many wonderful players who were considerate* enough to not only make the game go to the fullest extent possible, but stuck it out and kept trying.

You guys are my peeps, and you rock.

*and by "considerate", I mean no faction achieved a flawless victory, which I choose to interpret as a sign of a good setup.

Also, sorry for the wordswordswords of this post.

Quote from Nis

For the record, I really don't like roles that can send false messages via the mod. The mod is supposed to be the players' source of undisputed truth. Relaying false messages makes players begin to question everything form the mod which is not a good thing.

In general, I agree with this. In my defense, this was the only thing that was blatantly false, and I really liked the concept (I hadn't read the other game that was referenced to have something similar, so I thought I was being all original).

On the other hand, I think it would have been better if I had had a different way of communicating it. My devotion to flavor made me feel like I should summarize/specify what actually happened to reduce misinterpretation. If I hadn't separated out the "facts", would it have been better, Nis?

I'm open to suggestions on this one in case I decide to try something like it again (and I'm not sacrificing my precious flavor).

Quote from Nis

One of those was true and one was false. That's just absolutely awful because if I was lynched over not dying D4 it would've been because I had implicitly trusted the mod like I'm supposed to.

That was sorta the point of giving the ability to the scum. Your point is received, though.

Quote from Iso

@EtR: Your claim was pretty bad in conjunction with your claim about Asenion, though - "I used my protection from negative abilities by not being Roleblocked [as a Vanilla]". But overall, your play was fine.

Yeah, I wondered if anyone picked up on that.

Quote from Iso

The big reds are the living Anarchists, the small reds are the dead ones, and I have no idea what the strikethrough signifies.

The strikethrough is you; just something to designate that one of the Anarchists was different.

Quote from Iso

Dunno why the little o is lowercased, either.

I don't know what you're talking about (fixed).

Quote from Nis

Quote from EtR

I still don't understand what happened night one though and why your kill failed. Unless it was somehow related to Asenion's negative ability deal. Like, a doc protect on a scum NK target would be negative for the scum team

That would be funny. So you guys didn't have a strongman? The flavor of the kill definitely suggested at two scum working together. "Crash! Kill!"

Asenion was a motivator ("ensures actions can't be interfered with" vs "giving more actions" version). I didn't quite realize it when I wrote it, but the wording of his ability made it so that when Asenion motivated ITF, ITF's nightkill of Asenion could no longer be prevented by Nis's doc-protect.

In essence, Asenion motivated his own death.

Quote from Nis

If the poisoning bit was completely false Cantrip certainly went out of his way to make it appear real. It stings because the mod shouldn't purposefully deceive players.

Another comment I agree with in general, but I think exceptions can sometimes be made, if done correctly (which I'm not sure I did).

Quote from Nis »

Despite that gripe, I really enjoyed this game and I think Cantrip did a great job. The soloist bit was neat although I'm not sure how much of an impact it had.

The soloist aspect was something that I implemented in the first setup where there were no vanilla roles; I wanted something that would allow for all power without every Night being role madness. My excellent reviewers, Axelrod and Cyan, talked me down from that, but the soloist element stayed because I thought it would be a good conversation starter, even if players being made soloists didn't have huge impact on the game. I think this turned out to be true.

Quote from Nis

I was a standard doc, of course, but I had a bonus that if I targeted the same player two nights in a row, and that player wasn't targeted by a kill either night, that player would become one-shot bulletproof as long as I was alive. With all the roleblocking the bonus never happened, but it certainly fit my description that my role gets "more powerful" as the game goes on.

It did, however, push toward of tunnel-vision. Once I had targeted somebody I was strongly encouraged to target them again the next night. It turns out that didn't really come into play like I thought since the people I targeted either died or were protected or I got roleblocked.

This was a role I battled to leave in the setup. Axelrod was fine with it, but Cyan felt it was too powerful. I really wanted to be able to hand a player something that wasn't a standard doctor, so I devised the idea of a doctorguard...but from the very start I suspected it would turn out to be mostly null.

No slur on your play, Nis, but I would be interested to see what kind of impact this role would have on a game where the doc wasn't forced to claim as early.

Quote from EtR

That's actually a really clever way to do a cultist. I approve.

Why, thank you! It was an attempt at a slightly easier-than-standard neutral role. (It actually started as a serial killer/cult leader/survivor concept. :p)

Quote from iRebel

So I don't know if this is bad form or not, and if it is I apologise, but I'd like to ask for some feedback on my play (especially from Iso). If there's any questions about what I did/didn't do/said/whatever, I would definitely like to try and field them.

This is only my third full game, so I know I have a lot of room to improve, and having feedback from others will help me improve my game.

Not bad form at all: you did really well. I was very impressed by how you handled yourself.

I also apologize (to all, including myself), as I planned on keeping a much more detailed running commentary in the spectator thread. Alas, lack of time. (I really need to learn not to play in games when I'm modding.)

Quote from Rhand

You were the towniest player in the game. The only thing ever to give me doubt was poe, and you can't influence that.

Quote from EtR

Also - super props to Cantrip. This was an extremely fun and flavorful game. The flavor is why I replaced in in the first place.

Well modded and great set up.

Damn the flavor was fun.

Quote from Iso

Yes, very to Cantrip for an excellent setup and flavor all around. One of my favorite games to-date simply for the read!

Quote from iRebel

Amazing game all around -- my favourite to date. Great flavour, Cantrip.

*Cantripmancer basks*

Thank you. That said, I made some mistakes, and I owe a few apologies:

• To Tanarin, Asenion, and ITF: Sorry that I didn't implement the masonchat at the start of Night 1 (to the rest of you, that's why N1 was super-long). I completely forgot that the point of that ability was to occur during the Night, not resolve at the end of the Night like other abilities.
Mod Lessons Learned:
- Know your abilities.
- This was un-roleblockable (since it resolved at the start of the Night), which I didn't take into account when thinking of balance.
- Someone in Marvel...Hawk, maybe? had a little tirade about how abilities shouldn't happen during the Night they're activated, but the following game Night. I could see his point, but felt like this went over just fine (once the mod remembered to send out notifications).

• To ganderin_dan: Sorry that I changed your role. Not that I gave you one version and then amended it to your real role. I'm sorry that I didn't keep the original version (which was Town Hammer "If you're the hammer vote on Scum, you gain an extra vote the following Day; if you're the hammer vote on Town, you lose your vote the following Day.") The change took away any thought process to playing your role, and I think it would have been more interesting as the original role.
Mod Lessons Learned:
- Making your players think and make choices is a good one. Giving them a role where the correct action is a "duh" action is not.

• To Asenion: Sorry to have confused you. The post-restriction concept was actually a somewhat-heavy-handed attempt to discourage massclaims and prevent the Neutral from achieving his initial wincon too early, not a balancing element to ensure that the town couldn't communicate freely and solve the game Day 1. I didn't anticipate such a perspective, and your comments had me doubting myself. I'd like to open up the question to the audience: thoughts on the post-restriction concept?
Mod Lessons Learned:
- Still pending.

• To my lovely, lovely scumteam, Arn/Proph and ITF/EtR, who I hope won't nightkill me for this: Ok, here's the big one, and I hope you can forgive me. Early on, Asenion's role was simply "motivator". During late review, it was pointed out that once the Mafia Roleblocker was out of the picture, the motivator role became "less than vanilla" in that he would think he was accomplishing something, and his target would think that something had happened, but it was all just smoke and mirrors.

To that end, the suggestion was made to change the Motivator role to "Motivate, but (hidden) when the Roleblocker dies, get to choose between Motivate and Roleblock". I was ok with that, but thought that it unbalanced the setup. The proposed solution was to give the Roleblocker a similar hidden clause that when the Motivator died, the next kill performed by the Roleblocker would be unpreventable.

So, Night 1, the Motivator (Asenion) died.

Night 2, the Roleblocker (ITF) targeted Dan with what should have been an unpreventable kill...

...and I completely forgot about it and let Nis protect Dan. I didn't realize it until halfway through Day 3 (and ITF completely forgot about it, too, apparently).

I can sleep at night only because the roles as they played out were essentially the same as my original setup had them. But I still apologize.
Mod Lessons Learned: Know your setup/roles, and reread them (even the easy ones) every night to make sure you're not forgetting something.

==========================================================================

As for MVPs:

I'm leaning toward the team of ITF and EtR on the scum side; ITF had good reads early on and posed well as a "townie soloist", while EtR never stopped trying. And I'm certainly not saying that Arnnaria/Proph played badly. I really appreciate Proph stepping in to what was a vichy situation and doing his best.

For town, I'm not certain who stands out the most (I'd welcome feedback), but these three caught my attention: Nis correctly targeted the nightkill every Night, Rhand had incredible reads, and iRebel was a model townie.

Of course, special mention needs to go to the Neutral team of Iso and Asenion. Iso did a great job of running with this role, but I'm not entirely sure he could have pulled it off without Asenion running point for him and fleshing out the soloist information.

Quote from Iso

What would have happened flavor-wise in the event that:

EtR and I had lynched Nis?
The power overload and shock at losing your orchestra would have sent you into a spiraling descent into madness where you would have imagined a happy ending inside your head. EtR would have struck out on his own, finally finding the peace he so furiously sought.

Nis and EtR had lynched Iso?
Standard Ending: EtR would have turned on Nis, killing him, and then struck out on his own, finally finding the peace he so furiously sought.

Iso had not won and the town had?
The town would have turned on you for killing Dr. Polyopticon and destroyed you.

Iso had not won and the mafia had?
Combination of Standard Ending and the first option, with the Gong role going on to fame and fortune as the only (known) animated instrument the world had ever seen.


I had a wonderful time modding this game, and I welcome any and all questions or specific feedback, good or bad, on setup, flavor, modding, etc.

I'd be interested in seeing the progression of my role through the review.

Oh, and the manipulation of "Polyopticon's" in the OP started off as an improvisational hint that something weird was going on (the Rise of Anarchy). I think it would have been more significant if Iso hadn't targeted the soloist the first Night. Originally the manipulation was just going to be random...different colors, sizes, fonts, etc. But then someone pointed out that there were 12 characters in "Polyopticon's", and I ran with it.

EDIT: I also thought about starting to make the music quotes in the votecounts go wonky the more you recruited into Anarchy, but figured that bordered on mod-bastardry. :p:p:p

Quote from Cantripmancer

EDIT: I also thought about starting to make the music quotes in the votecounts go wonky the more you recruited into Anarchy, but figured that bordered on mod-bastardry. :p:p:p

That would've been funny.

Quote from Cantripmancer

Oh, and the manipulation of "Polyopticon's" in the OP started off as an improvisational hint that something weird was going on (the Rise of Anarchy). I think it would have been more significant if Iso hadn't targeted the soloist the first Night. Originally the manipulation was just going to be random...different colors, sizes, fonts, etc. But then someone pointed out that there were 12 characters in "Polyopticon's", and I ran with it.

EDIT: I also thought about starting to make the music quotes in the votecounts go wonky the more you recruited into Anarchy, but figured that bordered on mod-bastardry. :p:p:p

Yeah that was me. I'm glad you ran with it though. At least I wasn't seeing things that weren't there kinda. Unlike my medical reason for leaving...

(So everyone knows, my schizophrenia flared up when I took my first V/La and I thought it was just stress. After the V/LA I was okay, but hallucinations got worse and the doctor believed it was in my best interest to switch my meds around. Med changes suck and I had a pretty bad two and a half weeks, but I feel much better, safer, and saner now.)

As for the botched NK, I would be upset if the town was weaker in play skill than they were. But I think they outperformed the four of us (me, ITF, EtR, and Proph) every step of the way

So this is the third game in recent times to have a "soloist" mechanic:
1. Meg's Avatars, where a player would be picked to be the Day's avatar at random, but the chances of being picked could be altered by achieving a hidden "priority trigger."
2. Presidential, where players elected a president each Day, whose political party would affect the makeup of the rest of the players' abilities.
3. Polyopticon, where the solist is picked at random, but certain game actions could lead to it being picked by a player.

Three different implementations of a similar concept. I think Meg's Avatars' implementation was a flop. Presidential was ok but players did not utilize it as much as I expected. This game it seemed to go off without a hitch though.

I abused it to my benefit.

Being a Neutral is hard.

Quote from Arnnaria

I feel much better, safer, and saner now.

Glad to hear it.

Quote from Megiddo

So this is the third game in recent times to have a "soloist" mechanic:
1. Meg's Avatars, where a player would be picked to be the Day's avatar at random, but the chances of being picked could be altered by achieving a hidden "priority trigger."
2. Presidential, where players elected a president each Day, whose political party would affect the makeup of the rest of the players' abilities.
3. Polyopticon, where the solist is picked at random, but certain game actions could lead to it being picked by a player.

I will gladly admit to being positively influenced & refining my mechanic based on my experience in Meggido's Avatars.

Quote from Iso

I abused it to my benefit.

Being a Neutral is hard.

Ok, be honest: do you think you could have done as well w/out Asenion carrying the 'let's find a way around the restriction' torch?

I'm not upset cantrip. When you mod game that hard its the risk you take. I do think there was a minor problem by not telling the players who upgraded that they could. It's a bit bastard ish to not know your own role

Why didn't I get doc'd D:

Quote from Cantripmancer

Quote from Iso

I abused it to my benefit.

Being a Neutral is hard.

Ok, be honest: do you think you could have done as well w/out Asenion carrying the 'let's find a way around the restriction' torch?

I was mostly phoneposting at the beginning of the game but I'm sure I would have said, by the end of the Day, "hay guise tell me if you're NOT the Soloist". I'm sure the fact that Asenion seemed town enough helped sway players to it but I've been told I'm a Mafia bully, so I probably could have eventually persuaded a Soloist claim out for my Night action. It certainly expedited the process, though.

Quote from Prophylaxis

Was there anything I could really do to salvage the position at the end of Day 3?

Tried to give some effort in the game, as evidenced by my notes, but... yeah. Felt like conceding at the beginning of Day 4.

After hawk flipped town, short of a Doc gambit by scumNis, there was nothing that could have saved your position, IMO. One of the problems with replacing in is that you have to play off of your predecessor's strategies (mostly applies to if you're scum).

Quote from ganderin_dan

Why didn't I get doc'd D:

who r u

(I think you did, but that Nis got Roleblocked and you got killed at the same time.)

This game was an AMAZING read. Holy **** Cant i loved it. Good job!

Idk, I don't really feel like I deserved this one. Didn't produce a whole lot as a generally accepted townie.

Sorry all for replacing out, I think that forum mafia just isn't for me. I enjoy it and like the theory of it and all, but I can't quite keep up with the commitment. Thanks for replacing in ETR and Proph. Proph, you kinda replaced into a bad position and I can't really blame you for getting lynched. ETR, you're pretty damn good as scum, I feel like most of the reason you were picked off at the end was PoE and a somewhat shaky claim.

Quote from EtR

Also - super props to Cantrip. This was an extremely fun and flavorful game. The flavor is why I replaced in in the first place.

Well modded and great set up.

Damn the flavor was fun.

Very much agreed. I said this in the mason chat with Ascenion, but I loved the flavor/role on the Timpani. Coming from a percussionist, having a Timpani that can tell if two players are "in tune" is amazing.

Quote from EtR

That's actually a really clever way to do a cultist. I approve.

Again, agreed.

Quote from iRebel

So I don't know if this is bad form or not, and if it is I apologise, but I'd like to ask for some feedback on my play (especially from Iso). If there's any questions about what I did/didn't do/said/whatever, I would definitely like to try and field them.

This is only my third full game, so I know I have a lot of room to improve, and having feedback from others will help me improve my game.

Well, you were obv town from your first few posts, so that's a good start

Quote from Asenion

Anyone want to explain why I was the night kill Night 1? Also, nice job protecting me Nis. Sadly, I canceled your protection because I made the soloist "Unable to have your actions interfered with toNight." and that included making the Doc unable to stop his kill.

So I basically killed myself.

You were definitely town according to almost everyone, and you were one of the better players in the game. Plus, you pretty much claimed motivator/pediatrician, which is a reasonably powerful role that can cause a lot of problems for the scum. We knew that there was a decent chance of you being doc protected, but there were a few good doc targets that night (Iso, irebel, and myself would have all been reasonable choices), so we felt it was a risk worth taking (and I was worried about too many obv town/confirmables in the endgame).

We almost killed Gdan that night, but we switched it at the last minute.

~

Also, I'm curious on what others think: should I have tried to falseclaim Asenion's abilities D2? I admit, I was kinda pressed for time and decided to go the simple route of just truthfully claiming (and IMO Asenion breadcrumbed his role pretty heavily), but maybe I should have tried something else?

I would've lied about it.

@dan: No worries, I carried the town in the end.

Quote from Iso

I would've lied about it.

@dan: No worries, I carried the town in the end.

By getting the townie that figured out the game lynched

Rhand was town?!?!?!

Ofc I was

I don't feel bad about my play at all. I don't think I did amazing, but it was reasonable and I don't think I did anything idiotic. I would probably breadcrumb a bit differently if I realized my role could stop Doc protection, but that is about it.

Question to all: how come people so often think I am scum, especially further in the game, when all I am trying (in my own eyes) is to solve the game?
It is not just this gane; I tend to be the final mislynch in too many games. If I am ever cleared, it is only by role and never by behaviour.

Quote from Rhand

Question to all: how come people so often think I am scum, especially further in the game, when all I am trying (in my own eyes) is to solve the game?
It is not just this gane; I tend to be the final mislynch in too many games. If I am ever cleared, it is only by role and never by behaviour.

Speaking solely for myself, I was suspicious of you because you didn't have the same zeal as you did in MTGS Mafia. I got an apathetic vibe from you at times, like you were only going through the motions. That changed as the game went on, however. To me, your Day 1 and Day 2 are rather different from Day 3 forward.

I just didn't see any townie motivation from you, Rhand. Your entire push on me after the whole "consider this from the perspective that I'm town" thing was exactly what I predicted you would do and it's also exactly what I would expect scum to do. It felt like you were trying to push a mislynch and then force one on me for changing my mind on you.

Well I just knew you weren't town. I don't know how to act once I have that conviction without coming off as scummy.

But I wasn't ANTI-town and I knew you would latch on to me not being town at all costs. I wasn't actively trying to cost the town the game - I was just prolonging it so that I could win, too. Lynching me would have actually hurt the town.

Quote from Cantripmancer

On the other hand, I think it would have been better if I had had a different way of communicating it. My devotion to flavor made me feel like I should summarize/specify what actually happened to reduce misinterpretation. If I hadn't separated out the "facts", would it have been better, Nis?

Probably. I agree that it's a cool idea for a role, but it's exceedingly difficult to get right. It's basically a role that forces you to lie to the players. The trick is to figure out a way where there can be some doubt about the message. In Ataghan, while zindy delivered the note, the content was completely in the hands of the scum. Zindy also made no promises as to the formatting of the note. These restrictions make it a little tougher to make the mod deliver false information that can't be distinguished from real information.

It is such a tempting role because it allows the scum to stir the misinformation pot, but personally I think it encourages too much second guessing of the mod. We don't want to get to the point where cops are starting to wonder if they're paranoid or naive every game.

Quote from Cantripmancer

Quote from Nis

Quote from EtR

I still don't understand what happened night one though and why your kill failed. Unless it was somehow related to Asenion's negative ability deal. Like, a doc protect on a scum NK target would be negative for the scum team

That would be funny. So you guys didn't have a strongman? The flavor of the kill definitely suggested at two scum working together. "Crash! Kill!"

Asenion was a motivator ("ensures actions can't be interfered with" vs "giving more actions" version). I didn't quite realize it when I wrote it, but the wording of his ability made it so that when Asenion motivated ITF, ITF's nightkill of Asenion could no longer be prevented by Nis's doc-protect.

In essence, Asenion motivated his own death.

I completely endorse this conflux of unintended consequences.

Quote from Cantripmancer

This was a role I battled to leave in the setup. Axelrod was fine with it, but Cyan felt it was too powerful. I really wanted to be able to hand a player something that wasn't a standard doctor, so I devised the idea of a doctorguard...but from the very start I suspected it would turn out to be mostly null.

No slur on your play, Nis, but I would be interested to see what kind of impact this role would have on a game where the doc wasn't forced to claim as early.

Agreed on both counts. I think the role includes its own limiting factor which makes it fine for a higher power game. In 9 out of 10 games it's likely to be just a standard doc, but in the game that it isn't, it will be really cool. The push to keep protecting the same player at the expense of protecting a more likelier NK adds some interesting tension to the role and greatly tempers it. The risk vs. reward feeling is really cool.

zindabad did state he would take care of formatting in Ataghan.

I had a mostly-identical role as the one in ataghan in one of our clan games as scum.

I used it to establish credibility as town by complaining against my awful role, then proving it.

Then I got copped and I had to pretend to be a mostly-cult leader (not unlike the one in this game).

My point is that I don't like that role.

To be fair our clan meta is a bit softer than MTGS as a whole, though that game was mostly made up of people who actually play here.

I am so down for that.