Yuck... do not like the exchange in #123 - 144 - 168.
What makes you say that?
The comment underneath Kosa's name implies that he would be happy if he was mafia, so I asked him what kind of mood he was in. His response showed that he was quite frustrated, and frustration is not typically associated with happiness. Therefore, I was able to label him town because, if he was mafia, he would have picked a happier emotion to describe his mood.
Case closed.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"I'm a compulsive liar no matter what team I play on, but I'm trying to get better about it."
@Kosa
1.) I haven't seen you make a contradiction like that in previous games. You generally have a hard time getting other people to see what you see.
I don't get how the first sentence is related to the second one. Please elaborate?
3.) The intention behind your post may not have been a contradiction in your opinion but the wording looked contradictory to me. For someone who uses language tells, seems like you would have known better than to word it that way.
This doesn't explain why you didn't comment on where I've clarified how it wasn't a contradiction. Actually, the bold makes it worse because you state that my wording looked contradictory to you, but if that's the case, then why have you completely ignored the post where I explain how it wasn't a contradiction?
By completely ignoring that post, you're showing that you weren't actually interested in clarifying whether I was being contradictory or not. So you're:
- Lying about believing that my statement was contradictory in order to smear me, and/or;
- Not interested about investigating my mindset because you already know my alignment.
At least one of the latter two is wrong. I don't see two scum buddies hopping on newbie together. Need to discern which one has nefarious intentions.
Unvote
Vote: 7Hawk77
This one is iron-clad, though.
You have an RVS vote and then a naked vote. These are your only posts in the game.
A game that started about 48 hours ago. I'm long-since removed from my days of spamming up the thread like I did in 2007. My posting rate is directly related to the amount of work I have to do - and since I just returned from vacation, that's not promising.
Quote from Hawk »
Please list two town reads and why?
No. Nothing good comes from "town reads" this early. It's a good way to put yourself into the mindset of giving people more leniency than they deserve so as not to second-guess yourself. I've listed my scum reads. You can assume everyone else isn't on my radar at this point.
Quote from Hawk »
Do you have any updates on your read on misting/EtR?
No.
Quote from Hawk »
What is your opinion on the Kosa/Shark situation?
This phrasing makes it look like a dichotomy. Dislike.
I'm simply observing.
Shark did something similar in the last game I played with him where he was town, but one game does not a trend make, and I don't know that I've ever played with Kosa.
You say he does this stuff. Say it's nothing, that you ignore him early on. But you are not doing that. You jumped on him the first chance you could outside of random. It looks fake. That you planned this from the start.
You are, again, misrepping me. I didn't jump on him. I didn't accuse him. I didn't put a finger on his nose. I've merely asked a question and wanted an answer.
Did you say he acts like this early? That you know he does this stuff so you ignore him early on?
I said that the fact he does it means nothing on his alignment, sure. Anyone who has played enough games with Shark should know that. However, his answer to my question could have denoted something else about his alignment that his meta never would. After he stated he wasn't joking, I wanted to know why he broke RVS like that, and what could be the mindset behind it.
Your the only one stating he broke the RVS. RVS continued on.
The fact that I've learned to ignore the scumminess on his RVS-Breaker posts doesn't mean I won't ask him about them in order to better understand his alignment, especially because Shark is a player that I (and most people from what I've seen) have trouble reading early on.
I thought you said you ignored him early on. I'll have to go look to see if you did.
Riddle me this: You don't feel the slightest motivation to inquire him about why he had made it? Sure, now he's already answered, but what did you think about it at the time?
I'll get back to this. Going to look back on how it all played out again. But at the time I didn't think he was claiming the "role" I thought he was claiming surviving the Battle Royal. Ya know, playing around. Buy he wasn't was he? Gotta look at it all again.
I seriously doubt he planned to jump on him from the start. Scum don't plan who to mislynch on night 0.
No but they plant seeds. Thats what this looked like.
If you want to see more posts from me, the thread has to stop being so spammy. My last post was less than 12 hours ago, and my first response when I get back from to see the thread pushed 100 posts is something along the lines of: "Bugger that, I am going to play League of Legends/Civ 5/ect.
I totally get this. Which is when I start to skim. But you have to answer Rhands posts #43
You mean your previous post? You can't simply lay out a one-liner like that and expect us to fall for it. This is TRUE WRESTLING and that lacked STYLE dude. I've seen BETTER THINGS from you.
Not to mention that I have a hard time believing that any big muscle piles that all us certainly are would be considered Survivors of any sorts. We don't survive. We KILL. Unless it's about cocaine, I guess, then maybe...
...Ok, so now the joke time is over, why the flying **** have you claimed Survivor in the game's 9th post?
Jokingly: You don't expect me to fall for your RVS breaking meta that you always do.
Seriously:Watch me fall for your RVS breaking meta that you always do.
Yes he did. I've ignored the first time on silliness ground, but then he said, full words on, that he meant it. I just wanted to know his reasoning for doing so, and before noticing that he was just being silly I didn't defend nor accuse him of anything.
There are absolutely no contradictions there:
1-) Shark posted his RVS-Breaker;
2-) I joked about it;
3-) He confirmed that wasn't a joke;
4-) I've joked a bit more, then, IN THE SAME POST, I've said "Now that the joke time is over, [question]". Which was the moment where I got serious.
It's hard for people to understand the context of you changing from joking to serious and stating two conflicting things in the same post. You said that you wouldn't fall for it and then obviously did. This is a contradiction of wording even if it wasn't a contradiction of thought in your mind.
The comment underneath Kosa's name implies that he would be happy if he was mafia, so I asked him what kind of mood he was in. His response showed that he was quite frustrated, and frustration is not typically associated with happiness. Therefore, I was able to label him town because, if he was mafia, he would have picked a happier emotion to describe his mood.
This seems very contrived... although Kosa did bring attention to his own title. Hmm.
Also, side note/question for all, is there a specific way to go to a certain post number, or do you just have to go to the page it is on and find it?
The comment underneath Kosa's name implies that he would be happy if he was mafia, so I asked him what kind of mood he was in. His response showed that he was quite frustrated, and frustration is not typically associated with happiness. Therefore, I was able to label him town because, if he was mafia, he would have picked a happier emotion to describe his mood.
This seems very contrived... although Kosa did bring attention to his own title. Hmm.
Also, side note/question for all, is there a specific way to go to a certain post number, or do you just have to go to the page it is on and find it?
There is, but it involves people being nice/putting time into it, which they haven't been so far. You just need to go to the specific post, let's use yours, and then copypasta the link / put the post # in as the text description.
It's hard for people to understand the context of you changing from joking to serious and stating two conflicting things in the same post. You said that you wouldn't fall for it and then obviously did. This is a contradiction of wording even if it wasn't a contradiction of thought in your mind.
The first part of that post is obviously full of silliness, while in the second part I open my sentence with "...Ok, so now the joke time is over,". I don't know how more obvious I could have been.
I can see where you're coming from, but that only applies to people that aren't used to playing with me, and that's not your case. Also, that doesn't explain why you didn't tackle this back there instead of only when questioned about it.
As others have said, we got through this every game with you, and it really isn't determinant of your alignment in any way, shape, or form. But my god, this post is so bad. Like, I'm sure you're just sitting there cackling with sadistic glee IRL at the chaos you cause, but posts like this really make me want to lynch you ._.
That was during my survivor ordeal. Obviously as survivor I wouldn't care what happens so long as I didn't die. It's the little Edge I'd have if I were the survivor.
Still catching up. Probably will pressure a newer player until I see a town read from them to start eliminated possibilities.
I tried looking at that last sentence from a town!Shark mindset and just don't see it. It's as if Shark just announced he's going to go after low-hanging fruits but hasn't made his pick yet.
I can see where you're coming from, but that only applies to people that aren't used to playing with me, and that's not your case. Also, that doesn't explain why you didn't tackle this back there instead of only when questioned about it.
I am used to playing with you which is why I thought the contradiction was strange and I don't think your explanation of the contradiction cleared it at all.
At what point was I supposed to bring it up? I was looking in to other players and someone asked me my opinion about you so I told them.
You mean your previous post? You can't simply lay out a one-liner like that and expect us to fall for it. This is TRUE WRESTLING and that lacked STYLE dude. I've seen BETTER THINGS from you.
Not to mention that I have a hard time believing that any big muscle piles that all us certainly are would be considered Survivors of any sorts. We don't survive. We KILL. Unless it's about cocaine, I guess, then maybe...
...Ok, so now the joke time is over, why the flying **** have you claimed Survivor in the game's 9th post?
Bam, Kosa jumps on Shark. You were just waiting.
I'm was starting to entertaining the thought of a Shark/Kosa gambit but now see it as an EtR/Kosa gambit. A smear campaign. Kosa says how he knows how Shark starts out games but jumps on him for it.
LnGrrrR bounces off the ropes, and lands a giant elbow drop on TheColdMonarch! The crowd goes nuts! And now, oooohhh a power slam! LnGrrrR showing no regard for human life!
Vote TheColdMonarch ... Because he has the most wrestler-y name here and I'm jealous.
LnGrrrR bounces off the ropes, and lands a giant elbow drop on TheColdMonarch! The crowd goes nuts! And now, oooohhh a power slam! LnGrrrR showing no regard for human life!
Vote TheColdMonarch ... Because he has the most wrestler-y name here and I'm jealous.
WOOHOO! im not the only one happy to make this flavourful!
unvote, vote hansanator
A spinning heel kick to that SOB for trying to put a thum to the eye... thats rick flair shenanigans!
"Eron takes a quick cheap shot on shark and he goes down!"
"Shark feigns KO'd, will anyone fall for it?"
"Kosa goes for the pin on shark and what is that? It's a reversal suplex!"
"AE sees an oppening on the trapped Kosa and does a flying dragon kick to his chest"
@Rhand: what's scummy about clearing players, this removing the pool of lynch candidates? Especially when you can get the easy town players?
Clearing players? not scummy.
Pushing new players just because they're easy? Borderline, but ok.
Announcing that you're coming for them? That's making them afraid of you, which is something scum likes to do.
You mean your previous post? You can't simply lay out a one-liner like that and expect us to fall for it. This is TRUE WRESTLING and that lacked STYLE dude. I've seen BETTER THINGS from you.
Not to mention that I have a hard time believing that any big muscle piles that all us certainly are would be considered Survivors of any sorts. We don't survive. We KILL. Unless it's about cocaine, I guess, then maybe...
...Ok, so now the joke time is over, why the flying **** have you claimed Survivor in the game's 9th post?
Bam, Kosa jumps on Shark. You were just waiting.
I'm was starting to entertaining the thought of a Shark/Kosa gambit but now see it as an EtR/Kosa gambit. A smear campaign. Kosa says how he knows how Shark starts out games but jumps on him for it.
Somethings off with all this. It looks forced.
Did anyone else than Kosa see that Survivor claim? I know I missed it.
Reading the posts all together like this makes a Kosa - Shark gambit very plausible. Kosa seems like an overexcited kid that knows something and isn't allowed to tell until he can't hold himself anymore and just blurts it out.
I thought nothing of it... didn't put the role claim 2+2 together, and actually figured the post as a whole was an inside joke referring to a past game.
Did anyone else than Kosa see that Survivor claim? I know I missed it.
Reading the posts all together like this makes a Kosa - Shark gambit very plausible. Kosa seems like an overexcited kid that knows something and isn't allowed to tell until he can't hold himself anymore and just blurts it out.
Thats what I was thinking also until I realized EtR led it off and Kosa carried it. I'm starting to think Shark wanted to live up to that moniker. Kosa and EtR knew he would and made sure to push him to it. Kosa seemed a little upset that they didn't get much and is clinging to the survivor claim.
Did anyone else than Kosa see that Survivor claim? I know I missed it.
Reading the posts all together like this makes a Kosa - Shark gambit very plausible. Kosa seems like an overexcited kid that knows something and isn't allowed to tell until he can't hold himself anymore and just blurts it out.
Thats what I was thinking also until I realized EtR led it off and Kosa carried it. I'm starting to think Shark wanted to live up to that moniker. Kosa and EtR knew he would and made sure to push him to it. Kosa seemed a little upset that they didn't get much and is clinging to the survivor claim.
Interesting theory. The weird part is I was about to make a very similar RVS post that EtR made before him but decided to go for puns instead.
If I could have come up with that same RVS vote on my own, I think it is likely that EtR could have come up with it himself.
Kosa and Shark might be doing some weird gambit though, especially with shark trying to go after smaller fish. The puns continue!
Yeh, which is why I don't see a connection between him and Kosa.
Is there a case for etr simply making the comment and kosa seeing opportunity when shark ayes along to build something out of nothing?[/QUOTE]
If Shark isn't in on it, Kosa's waiting to blurt it out makes no sense.
I am used to playing with you which is why I thought the contradiction was strange and I don't think your explanation of the contradiction cleared it at all.
I would expect you to say it out loud and question me about it. Not to ride on other players' coattails and state that you have me as leaning scum without even addressing me directly on what makes you think I'm scum.
You mean your previous post? You can't simply lay out a one-liner like that and expect us to fall for it. This is TRUE WRESTLING and that lacked STYLE dude. I've seen BETTER THINGS from you.
Not to mention that I have a hard time believing that any big muscle piles that all us certainly are would be considered Survivors of any sorts. We don't survive. We KILL. Unless it's about cocaine, I guess, then maybe...
/\
||
JOKES A BIT MORE...
...BEFORE ENGAGING IN SRS BSNS
||
\/
...Ok, so now the joke time is over, why the flying **** have you claimed Survivor in the game's 9th post?
Bam, Kosa jumps on Shark. You were just waiting.
There's no jump. There's a single. Simple. Question.
I'm was starting to entertaining the thought of a Shark/Kosa gambit but now see it as an EtR/Kosa gambit. A smear campaign. Kosa says how he knows how Shark starts out games but jumps on him for it.
Somethings off with all this. It looks forced.
Yeah, your complete tunnel-vision on me seems extremely forced. You're stubbornly repeating yourself trying to paint my question as malicious, craftily planned and scummy, without even reading what I'm saying or thinking for a second and applying Occam to the situation based on what I've stated about Shark here and in games that you were present.
Again, I DIDN'T JUMP ON SHARK. Doesn't matter how many times you attempt to turn that into the truth, it simply isn't. I've merely asked him a question. I didn't vote him, I didn't imply anything, and I'm pretty much tired of having to wall-text the same goddamn thing every 50 posts when I could be using that energy on something actually useful to us.
What's even worse, taking both Chimes and [redacted] into account, this is probably TownAE. And it boggles me how misguided you are allowing yourself to be in this game.
@Kosa
I had like 4 or 5 people that I thought were leaning scum at the time. I was investigating my top 3. You seem a little tense and paranoid. Why are you so special that you deserve my attention?
#5 - Post about Shark breaking RVS
#10 - Direct response to Shark, acknowledging his apparent breaking of RVS
#94 - Jumped on me for coming off self-conscious
#98 & 102 - Justifies #94
#131 - Tells Voxx that he is not scum
That's it. I had a town read on him so far, but it looks plausible that he baited Shark into shenanigans.
Wrong? What wrong? He said with full words that he had broken RVS. Do you deny it?
Why are you guys so hard up for Shark to break RVS? Just because he said he did and you want to buy into it doesn't mean he did. Go look at the posts following his post and tell me this again. Hell you even joke as you show us here...
You mean your previous post? You can't simply lay out a one-liner like that and expect us to fall for it. This is TRUE WRESTLING and that lacked STYLE dude. I've seen BETTER THINGS from you.
Not to mention that I have a hard time believing that any big muscle piles that all us certainly are would be considered Survivors of any sorts. We don't survive. We KILL. Unless it's about cocaine, I guess, then maybe...
/\
||
JOKES A BIT MORE...
...BEFORE ENGAGING IN SRS BSNS
||
\/
...Ok, so now the joke time is over, why the flying **** have you claimed Survivor in the game's 9th post?
Bam, Kosa jumps on Shark. You were just waiting.
There's a single. Simple. Question.
Which is my main concern.
Yeah, your complete tunnel-vision on me seems extremely forced. You're stubbornly repeating yourself trying to paint my question as malicious, craftily planned and scummy, without even reading what I'm saying or thinking for a second and applying Occam to the situation based on what I've stated about Shark here and in games that you were present.
I'm not tunneled on you, nice try.
Stop trying to clear yourself because you've said things in other games. Scum do that. Thanks for that though.
Again, I DIDN'T JUMP ON SHARK. Doesn't matter how many times you attempt to turn that into the truth, it simply isn't. I've merely asked him a question. I didn't vote him, I didn't imply anything, and I'm pretty much tired of having to wall-text the same goddamn thing every 50 posts when I could be using that energy on something actually useful to us.
.
What was your response to his answer? Guess I'll go look.
Could anyone summarize exactly why they think Kosa is scummy? It seems the main thrust of the argument is that he asked Shark about his survivor claim and whether he was serious or not. There's a bit of weirdness because he says (paraphrasing), "Im not going to fall for this, but..." And then falls for it, but I don't think that necessarily makes him scummy.
Then again, I am not experienced enough to know what is and isn't a "scumtell"; I mainly look for logical inconsistencies. I don't really see any from Kosa.
If someone wants to sum up the case, Id appreciate it.
It's open to interpretation, but in both scenarios kosa is looking like scum. His frustrations at me seemed genuine though, how good is kosa? One of the more experienced players around here?
There's a third scenario where there's no team gambit going on.
Kosa has more or less the same experience level as I do with the difference that I've been scum.
@Kosa
I had like 4 or 5 people that I thought were leaning scum at the time. I was investigating my top 3. You seem a little tense and paranoid. Why are you so special that you deserve my attention?
Because I'm trying to discern who is misguided town and who is opportunistic scum regarding my wagon, and your stated reasoning on me makes me fairly sure you're the second option.
Why are you guys so hard up for Shark to break RVS? Just because he said he did and you want to buy into it doesn't mean he did. Go look at the posts following his post and tell me this again.
...That's what questions are made for. To attempt to clarify things up. Like the one I've asked him.
The posts he made after mine meant nothing when I've asked that question: they didn't exist at the time Nevertheless, I've acknowledged them in #66 after Shark made a second joke about it.
Yes, I make my last joke before dropping the silliness and going serious on him. What the hell can you possible dislike about that?
Quote from "Generic" »
For me it was centred around kosa claiming he ignores sharks early play because he is used to it bring scummy. Yet he clearly didn't ignore it.
I've said it a couple times already: I don't ignore his early play: I ignore THE SCUMMINESS in his early play because that doesn't help in defining his alignment. Read my posts again.
The posts you've quoted were posted after Shark confirmed he was being serious, while the post Rhand was referring to was posted before Shark confirmed he was being serious.
It turns out he wasn't being serious in the end, but I only realized that in #63, stated in #66.
If somehow your intention is to delve into useless argumentation about the end-of-RVS definition like "So, Shark didn't actually break RVS, you did it when you took him seriously!", then excuse me, but I won't lose my time with you anymore.
*********************************
JR: AE grabs Kosa in a bearhug, and he's squeezing the ever loving life outta him! But Kosa, oh, how despicable, he rakes him across the face! AE's reeling, clutching at his eyes, the referee Void comes in to give the wrestlers a warning!
Void: Hey, none of that!
Cole: That was a brilliant tactical maneuver by Kosa! And now LnGrrrR is stalking his way around the ring, recovering some breath and looking for an opening...
*************************************
@Kosa, so Shark hasn't been scum in any game with you?
@everyone else who's played with Shark, can you back up Kosa's "intentionally scummy RVS break as town" meta? Have any of you played with scumShark?
dkingsland has came off mildly scummy early in the game but I am willing to give him a noob card pass especially with his recent posts. I know I personally have a difficult time discerning noob scum from noob town considering the scummy/paranoid nature of newer players. I like his vote on TCM though.
I could not tell if AE's vote on Kosa was RVS or serious. The caps lock and early vote is what through me off.
As far as waiting, the day took off rather quickly and I enjoy RVS/using flavor. The time difference between post 34 and 52 couldn't have been more than 30 minutes.
@dking
Is post 38 the only reason you think TCM is scum?
So you like dking's vote on TCM, but then you ask him about why he thinks TCM is scum?
Do you think TCM is scum? You haven't commented on TCM's only other post #117 (you know, the one with more content), and instead only focused on #38 (you know, the one with the vote on you). Is this basically an OMGUS?
Way too much emphasis on flavor. Real vote is real.
Why Hawk and not one of the other flavor-users?
Sounds opportunistic. Going for a so called easy target.
FOS TCM
Is that directed and me or Rhand?
It's obviously about TCM. Feels like scum trying to deflect.
How does TCM's vote look like "scum trying to deflect"? What exactly was he deflecting from? And why do you single this out, when you just said that between #34 and #52 you were still in RVS mode?
Hans: I don't really have a read on him yet. I know he is a newer forum player but has some experience. He said that Kosa's thing with shark is being blown out of proportion so if Kosa is scum, Hans might be.
If Hans is scum with Kosa, that's not buddying, is it?
*********************************
JR: AE grabs Kosa in a bearhug, and he's squeezing the ever loving life outta him! But Kosa, oh, how despicable, he rakes him across the face! AE's reeling, clutching at his eyes, the referee Void comes in to give the wrestlers a warning!
Void: Hey, none of that!
Cole: That was a brilliant tactical maneuver by Kosa! And now LnGrrrR is stalking his way around the ring, recovering some breath and looking for an opening...
*************************************
@Kosa, so Shark hasn't been scum in any game with you?
@everyone else who's played with Shark, can you back up Kosa's "intentionally scummy RVS break as town" meta? Have any of you played with scumShark?
@Spoiler: I lol'ed.
@Me: Only in Eeveelution, but as a replacement he took no part in the RVS.
@Everyone-but-me: Shark himself can. He's aware of his predisposition in breaking, or help breaking the RVS and likes doing it, as noticeable by him being happy for doing so.
Voxx: I seem to recall comments from you about being dissatisfied with your D1 play. That's what I'm referencing from "applicable notes", and that's the last I'm saying on the subject.
I'm not, just new to the Mafia forum and have only posted sparingly on the Magic forums..
Are you new to mafia or have you played elsewhere?
Why ask this?
I've never played with dkingsland and wanted to know his experience level. It is important to not confuse bad with scum and if he is inexeperienced, I want to know.
Given his lack of experience, do you think dking is town or scum?
You mean your previous post? You can't simply lay out a one-liner like that and expect us to fall for it. This is TRUE WRESTLING and that lacked STYLE dude. I've seen BETTER THINGS from you.
Not to mention that I have a hard time believing that any big muscle piles that all us certainly are would be considered Survivors of any sorts. We don't survive. We KILL. Unless it's about cocaine, I guess, then maybe...
...Ok, so now the joke time is over, why the flying **** have you claimed Survivor in the game's 9th post?
VOTE KOSA
Is this RVS or serious?
Why ask this?
RVS was still going on and the vote was in all caps. A serious vote has more weight and tells more about players intentions than a "random" vote.
Yes, and how does this tell you anything about AE's alignment?
I feel like these are obvious questions and answers. Why are you asking obvious questions? These past two just feels like forced scumhunting that doesn't get anything accomplished.
That's funny, that was what *I* thought when I saw the questions I asked about. The entirety of your posts at the time consisted of irrelevant stuff (flavor comments) and these two questions, and I don't see how either of those two questions are supposed to help you find scum.
But I thought I should check before I went public, because maybe I was missing something and because I felt that immediate pressure would be counterproductive if you were scum.
See, for example, how I acted towards KCC D1 in Redux Mirror.
Unforced, very premature vanilla claim by a Village Idiot (VI) player? Willingness to sacrifice self and defeatism?
I've seen this before (obvious example: qwints in Medieval Mafia on MafiaScum), it usually comes from town (barring a recent meta of unforced vanilla claims).
Unvote
I've seen this before too, but only from new town.
I never saw experienced town do this.
Generic is not a new town, he has experience. However I that he is town. He basically plays by his own rules and does what he wants. I won't be referencing any ongoing games but I do have experience playing.
VI =/= inexperienced (for example, see Shark, or zwetschenwasser on MafiaScum). Here, let's let the Wiki explain:
Quote from MafiaScum Wiki »
Village Idiot (VI for short) is slang for a player who seems to habitually say or do the wrong things, then not understand the consequences of saying them. Most of the time, this tendency is due to inexperience with the game. Other times, it is due to poor intelligence or social skills on the part of the player. Still other times, the person saying these wrong things really is scum.
Generic isn't playing well, but since there hasn't been a rash of premature vanilla claims lately* it's unlikely that he's scum trying to mimic a premature VT claim and outside of that premature VT claims tend to come from town.
* - If I see another one anytime soon, THEN it's a rash of premature vanilla claims given this and an ongoing. But Generic isn't playing in that one, and I don't get the impression that he's been following it closely. Besides, even if there had been a rash lately I'd be inclined to wait until D2 before doing anything.
PPE: Basic 75 just finished, and Generic was scum there. A quick comparison of early D1 play also suggests that he's town here - his tone is much more serious here than in that game.
Kosa: I have him leaning scum. He was the main person trying to get me killed in the first Mafia game I played (I was scum) so I paid very close attention to his gameplay. Trying to analyze his actions is almost impossible. His contradiction about shark makes me wonder but other than that everything else seems normal for kosa.
Let me get this straight. You think that Kosa is scum... solely because of an apparent contradiction about Shark?
The apparent contradiction that he's been explaining isn't a contradiction in such a way that I think he actually believes it regardless of alignment?
Hans: I don't really have a read on him yet. I know he is a newer forum player but has some experience. He said that Kosa's thing with shark is being blown out of proportion so if Kosa is scum, Hans might be.
How does this follow? In my experience, this sort of post tends to come from town (scum don't want to obviously defend their partners and don't want to let town go on scummy points).
Case in point: Asenion in Redux Mirror, who concluded that the running discussion about a scummy post made by Nis was going nowhere. Nis was scum, Asenion was town.
Interesting that you thought that his questions towards me were valid. I still don't really see it.
dkingsland has came off mildly scummy early in the game but I am willing to give him a noob card pass especially with his recent posts. I know I personally have a difficult time discerning noob scum from noob town considering the scummy/paranoid nature of newer players. I like his vote on TCM though.
I could not tell if AE's vote on Kosa was RVS or serious. The caps lock and early vote is what through me off.
As far as waiting, the day took off rather quickly and I enjoy RVS/using flavor. The time difference between post 34 and 52 couldn't have been more than 30 minutes.
@dking
Is post 38 the only reason you think TCM is scum?
@Hans
What do you think of Arian?
Wait a minute. Hawk, why are you questioning dking about his vote on TCM when you've stated in the same post that you like the vote? Looks inconsistent to me.
@Kosa
1.) I haven't seen you make a contradiction like that in previous games. You generally have a hard time getting other people to see what you see.
2.) Others have pressured you about it, I'm familiar with you as a player and wanted to look in to players that I have never played with.
3.) The intention behind your post may not have been a contradiction in your opinion but the wording looked contradictory to me. For someone who uses language tells, seems like you would have known better than to word it that way.
Why do you think that him wording it that way is a scumtell, given that scum tend to care about the appearance of their posts more than town do?
Hans: I don't really have a read on him yet. I know he is a newer forum player but has some experience. He said that Kosa's thing with shark is being blown out of proportion so if Kosa is scum, Hans might be.
Uh, buddying is usually done by scum to TOWNIES, not buddies. Explain your thought process here, please.
dkingsland has came off mildly scummy early in the game but I am willing to give him a noob card pass especially with his recent posts. I know I personally have a difficult time discerning noob scum from noob town considering the scummy/paranoid nature of newer players. I like his vote on TCM though.
I could not tell if AE's vote on Kosa was RVS or serious. The caps lock and early vote is what through me off.
As far as waiting, the day took off rather quickly and I enjoy RVS/using flavor. The time difference between post 34 and 52 couldn't have been more than 30 minutes.
@dking
Is post 38 the only reason you think TCM is scum?
So you like dking's vote on TCM, but then you ask him about why he thinks TCM is scum?
Do you think TCM is scum? You haven't commented on TCM's only other post #117 (you know, the one with more content), and instead only focused on #38 (you know, the one with the vote on you). Is this basically an OMGUS?
Way too much emphasis on flavor. Real vote is real.
Why Hawk and not one of the other flavor-users?
Sounds opportunistic. Going for a so called easy target.
FOS TCM
Is that directed and me or Rhand?
It's obviously about TCM. Feels like scum trying to deflect.
How does TCM's vote look like "scum trying to deflect"? What exactly was he deflecting from? And why do you single this out, when you just said that between #34 and #52 you were still in RVS mode?
Hans: I don't really have a read on him yet. I know he is a newer forum player but has some experience. He said that Kosa's thing with shark is being blown out of proportion so if Kosa is scum, Hans might be.
If Hans is scum with Kosa, that's not buddying, is it?
At least one of the latter two is wrong. I don't see two scum buddies hopping on newbie together. Need to discern which one has nefarious intentions.
Unvote
Vote: 7Hawk77
This one is iron-clad, though.
You have an RVS vote and then a naked vote. These are your only posts in the game.
Please list two town reads and why?
Do you have any updates on your read on misting/EtR?
What is your opinion on the Kosa/Shark situation?
Pointless question, deflect, deflect.
Fade: Why the tone? This is not how I remember you in Redux Mirror (yes, you replaced in but still).
---
*Looks at AE D1 posts in Magical Girls*
*Looks at AE D1 posts in Chimes*
*Looks at AE D1 posts in Redux Invitational*
Why are people thinking that AE is town? On a more typical player, sure, but the way AE's posting here is strongly reminiscent of his scum meta. He's more aggressive and more sure of himself than he is as town. More importantly, he's dismissive of Kosa's defense in a way that strongly suggests that he doesn't actually care about figuring out Kosa's alignment. Observe:
Scratching my head. Your the only one attacking Shark and using his meta to justify it. But say that meta is not really scum.
Go back and look at that claim and think of the game we're in and what the game is based on.
Dude. I'm not attacking Shark. I'm not even voting Shark. I've simply asked Shark a question. And I would appreciate if he stops sitting over there while we beat each other up and answers it.
It looks to me that your trying to paint him into a corner. I'm not liking it.
I don't believe Shark's answer to Eron is referring to the ongoing game we're both on since he wasn't a Survivor there, plus he confirmed that he broke RVS with that answer, therefore my question stands.
"the game we're in" is referring to this game.
Btw why are you naked voting me again?
Yeah your not voting him. Your casting him in a scummy light and letting the town push the wagon.
EWP: @Generic, that post doesn't make Shark scum, he just likes to break RVS and brag about it.
See, your stuck on this. You keep bringing this up but Shark did nothing of the sort.
No explanation of why Kosa is wrong, no reconsideration of Kosa, just repetition of previous points in a "no, I am going to get my points against you to stick" fashion. Around here we call that mudslinging.
Also, AE is completely focused on Kosa. He's not paying attention to anyone else. This is not town AE.
You say he does this stuff. Say it's nothing, that you ignore him early on. But you are not doing that. You jumped on him the first chance you could outside of random. It looks fake. That you planned this from the start.
You are, again, misrepping me. I didn't jump on him. I didn't accuse him. I didn't put a finger on his nose. I've merely asked a question and wanted an answer.
Did you say he acts like this early? That you know he does this stuff so you ignore him early on?
I said that the fact he does it means nothing on his alignment, sure. Anyone who has played enough games with Shark should know that. However, his answer to my question could have denoted something else about his alignment that his meta never would. After he stated he wasn't joking, I wanted to know why he broke RVS like that, and what could be the mindset behind it.
Your the only one stating he broke the RVS. RVS continued on.
The fact that I've learned to ignore the scumminess on his RVS-Breaker posts doesn't mean I won't ask him about them in order to better understand his alignment, especially because Shark is a player that I (and most people from what I've seen) have trouble reading early on.
I thought you said you ignored him early on. I'll have to go look to see if you did.
Riddle me this: You don't feel the slightest motivation to inquire him about why he had made it? Sure, now he's already answered, but what did you think about it at the time?
I'll get back to this. Going to look back on how it all played out again. But at the time I didn't think he was claiming the "role" I thought he was claiming surviving the Battle Royal. Ya know, playing around. Buy he wasn't was he? Gotta look at it all again.
I seriously doubt he planned to jump on him from the start. Scum don't plan who to mislynch on night 0.
No but they plant seeds. Thats what this looked like.
If you want to see more posts from me, the thread has to stop being so spammy. My last post was less than 12 hours ago, and my first response when I get back from to see the thread pushed 100 posts is something along the lines of: "Bugger that, I am going to play League of Legends/Civ 5/ect.
I totally get this. Which is when I start to skim. But you have to answer Rhands posts #43
Wrong? What wrong? He said with full words that he had broken RVS. Do you deny it?
Why are you guys so hard up for Shark to break RVS? Just because he said he did and you want to buy into it doesn't mean he did. Go look at the posts following his post and tell me this again. Hell you even joke as you show us here...
You mean your previous post? You can't simply lay out a one-liner like that and expect us to fall for it. This is TRUE WRESTLING and that lacked STYLE dude. I've seen BETTER THINGS from you.
Not to mention that I have a hard time believing that any big muscle piles that all us certainly are would be considered Survivors of any sorts. We don't survive. We KILL. Unless it's about cocaine, I guess, then maybe...
/\
||
JOKES A BIT MORE...
...BEFORE ENGAGING IN SRS BSNS
||
\/
...Ok, so now the joke time is over, why the flying **** have you claimed Survivor in the game's 9th post?
Bam, Kosa jumps on Shark. You were just waiting.
There's a single. Simple. Question.
Which is my main concern.
Yeah, your complete tunnel-vision on me seems extremely forced. You're stubbornly repeating yourself trying to paint my question as malicious, craftily planned and scummy, without even reading what I'm saying or thinking for a second and applying Occam to the situation based on what I've stated about Shark here and in games that you were present.
I'm not tunneled on you, nice try.
Stop trying to clear yourself because you've said things in other games. Scum do that. Thanks for that though.
Again, I DIDN'T JUMP ON SHARK. Doesn't matter how many times you attempt to turn that into the truth, it simply isn't. I've merely asked him a question. I didn't vote him, I didn't imply anything, and I'm pretty much tired of having to wall-text the same goddamn thing every 50 posts when I could be using that energy on something actually useful to us.
.
What was your response to his answer? Guess I'll go look.
Utter and complete misrep (AE dismisses Kosa's comments on other games because "scum try to clear themselves with things they've said in other games, when Kosa's reason for mentioning other games... was that this is normal for Shark because he's done it in other games), and AE denies tunneling on Kosa when he's... tunneled on Kosa (focusing on him to the exclusion of almost everything else).
Moreover, that attempt at the "Shark ended RVS stage" point is godawful, especially since Kosa's comment looked like one final RVS comment before going into serious mode (aka a reaction to RVS being over).
[spoiler=This game is a lot more fun with flavor.]
Hey tag team. Get it? I like the 3 man tag matches....but anyways, back to the game.
... And now that Kosa is starting to suspect that something's up, AE backs off and goes nonconfrontational (calls Kosa touchy, goes on a nongame tangent).
THIS IS NOT TOWN BEHAVIOR.
I'm not sure on Hawk, but I'm pretty sure about you.
I thought I did play with scumShark, but the game just ended in a town defeat because I thought that
Don't remind me.
Btw, for the sake of brutal honesty, I've yet to be scum in a while so at the moment I still suck and flounder. And I've yet to actually break RVS as a scum (one game i played as scum from start)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Ask the right questions in the right way and truth is inevitable."
—Lazav
@Tar: I can explain later, but you may want to cross-ref my past games - Sutherlands in Court Mafia, Hunted Charlie in Warcraft III, several instances in RotTK, etc.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
What makes you say that?
The comment underneath Kosa's name implies that he would be happy if he was mafia, so I asked him what kind of mood he was in. His response showed that he was quite frustrated, and frustration is not typically associated with happiness. Therefore, I was able to label him town because, if he was mafia, he would have picked a happier emotion to describe his mood.
Case closed.
Previous Mafia Experience:
Mafia aligned: 2/0 -100%
Town aligned: 4/3 - 57%
You have an RVS vote and then a naked vote. These are your only posts in the game.
Please list two town reads and why?
Do you have any updates on your read on misting/EtR?
What is your opinion on the Kosa/Shark situation?
Outdated Mafia Stats
I don't get how the first sentence is related to the second one. Please elaborate?
Hm, fine.
This doesn't explain why you didn't comment on where I've clarified how it wasn't a contradiction. Actually, the bold makes it worse because you state that my wording looked contradictory to you, but if that's the case, then why have you completely ignored the post where I explain how it wasn't a contradiction?
By completely ignoring that post, you're showing that you weren't actually interested in clarifying whether I was being contradictory or not. So you're:
- Lying about believing that my statement was contradictory in order to smear me, and/or;
- Not interested about investigating my mindset because you already know my alignment.
You're scum.
Vote 7Hawk77
A game that started about 48 hours ago. I'm long-since removed from my days of spamming up the thread like I did in 2007. My posting rate is directly related to the amount of work I have to do - and since I just returned from vacation, that's not promising.
No. Nothing good comes from "town reads" this early. It's a good way to put yourself into the mindset of giving people more leniency than they deserve so as not to second-guess yourself. I've listed my scum reads. You can assume everyone else isn't on my radar at this point.
No.
This phrasing makes it look like a dichotomy. Dislike.
I'm simply observing.
Shark did something similar in the last game I played with him where he was town, but one game does not a trend make, and I don't know that I've ever played with Kosa.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Did you say he acts like this early? That you know he does this stuff so you ignore him early on?
Your the only one stating he broke the RVS. RVS continued on.
I thought you said you ignored him early on. I'll have to go look to see if you did.
I'll get back to this. Going to look back on how it all played out again. But at the time I didn't think he was claiming the "role" I thought he was claiming surviving the Battle Royal. Ya know, playing around. Buy he wasn't was he? Gotta look at it all again.
Just my thoughts. Putting them out there.
No but they plant seeds. Thats what this looked like.
I totally get this. Which is when I start to skim. But you have to answer Rhands posts #43
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Jokingly: You don't expect me to fall for your RVS breaking meta that you always do.
Seriously:Watch me fall for your RVS breaking meta that you always do.
It's hard for people to understand the context of you changing from joking to serious and stating two conflicting things in the same post. You said that you wouldn't fall for it and then obviously did. This is a contradiction of wording even if it wasn't a contradiction of thought in your mind.
Outdated Mafia Stats
This seems very contrived... although Kosa did bring attention to his own title. Hmm.
Also, side note/question for all, is there a specific way to go to a certain post number, or do you just have to go to the page it is on and find it?
There is, but it involves people being nice/putting time into it, which they haven't been so far. You just need to go to the specific post, let's use yours, and then copypasta the link / put the post # in as the text description.
IE
#183
The code for which is: URL="http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=10369371&postcount=183"]#183[/URL -- closed by [ ].
I ignore his early scumminess, not himself: those are different things. I'm pretty sure I said that in Chimes as well, and you were on that game.
Shark stated he broke RVS on post #25.
The first part of that post is obviously full of silliness, while in the second part I open my sentence with "...Ok, so now the joke time is over,". I don't know how more obvious I could have been.
I can see where you're coming from, but that only applies to people that aren't used to playing with me, and that's not your case. Also, that doesn't explain why you didn't tackle this back there instead of only when questioned about it.
I tried looking at that last sentence from a town!Shark mindset and just don't see it. It's as if Shark just announced he's going to go after low-hanging fruits but hasn't made his pick yet.
Vote: Shark
I am used to playing with you which is why I thought the contradiction was strange and I don't think your explanation of the contradiction cleared it at all.
At what point was I supposed to bring it up? I was looking in to other players and someone asked me my opinion about you so I told them.
Outdated Mafia Stats
I forgot EtR led this off, hmmm.
Looks like playing in RVS here. Thats what I got out of it.
You don't have an issue with claiming survivor.
To me your looking for a reason for Shark to act scummy.
Wrong.
Bam, Kosa jumps on Shark. You were just waiting.
I'm was starting to entertaining the thought of a Shark/Kosa gambit but now see it as an EtR/Kosa gambit. A smear campaign. Kosa says how he knows how Shark starts out games but jumps on him for it.
Somethings off with all this. It looks forced.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
Here you go TCM. Explain. Heres Rhands post. 43
They hate us cause they ain't us.
So does that take Kosa off the hook? The contradictions still there.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Clearing players? not scummy.
Pushing new players just because they're easy? Borderline, but ok.
Announcing that you're coming for them? That's making them afraid of you, which is something scum likes to do.
Did anyone else than Kosa see that Survivor claim? I know I missed it.
Reading the posts all together like this makes a Kosa - Shark gambit very plausible. Kosa seems like an overexcited kid that knows something and isn't allowed to tell until he can't hold himself anymore and just blurts it out.
I thought nothing of it... didn't put the role claim 2+2 together, and actually figured the post as a whole was an inside joke referring to a past game.
Thats what I was thinking also until I realized EtR led it off and Kosa carried it. I'm starting to think Shark wanted to live up to that moniker. Kosa and EtR knew he would and made sure to push him to it. Kosa seemed a little upset that they didn't get much and is clinging to the survivor claim.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Interesting theory. The weird part is I was about to make a very similar RVS post that EtR made before him but decided to go for puns instead.
If I could have come up with that same RVS vote on my own, I think it is likely that EtR could have come up with it himself.
Kosa and Shark might be doing some weird gambit though, especially with shark trying to go after smaller fish. The puns continue!
Outdated Mafia Stats
Yeh, which is why I don't see a connection between him and Kosa.
Is there a case for etr simply making the comment and kosa seeing opportunity when shark ayes along to build something out of nothing?[/QUOTE]
If Shark isn't in on it, Kosa's waiting to blurt it out makes no sense.
7hawk77 (4) - The Cold Monarch, fadeblue, DYH, KosaKosa
KosaKosa (2) - Archmage Eternal, Voxxicus
dkingsland967 (2) - EtR, Misting
The Cold Monarch (2) - LnGrrrR, dkingsland967
Taredas (1) - 7hawk77
SharkFinnigan (1) - Rhand
Currently not voting: Arianrhod, jonpike1, hansanator, SharkFinnigan, Generic and Taredas
With 18 in the ring it will take 10 to throw someone over the top rope.
I would expect you to say it out loud and question me about it. Not to ride on other players' coattails and state that you have me as leaning scum without even addressing me directly on what makes you think I'm scum.
Yes, this seems RVS. Bizarre nonetheless, but ok.
Because I wasn't sure if it was serious or not, as you can see in my next post, where I ask when he'll break RVS as he always does.
No. I'm being silly, joking about Shark's meta.
Wrong? What wrong? He said with full words that he had broken RVS. Do you deny it?
There's no jump. There's a single. Simple. Question.
Yeah, your complete tunnel-vision on me seems extremely forced. You're stubbornly repeating yourself trying to paint my question as malicious, craftily planned and scummy, without even reading what I'm saying or thinking for a second and applying Occam to the situation based on what I've stated about Shark here and in games that you were present.
Again, I DIDN'T JUMP ON SHARK. Doesn't matter how many times you attempt to turn that into the truth, it simply isn't. I've merely asked him a question. I didn't vote him, I didn't imply anything, and I'm pretty much tired of having to wall-text the same goddamn thing every 50 posts when I could be using that energy on something actually useful to us.
What's even worse, taking both Chimes and [redacted] into account, this is probably TownAE. And it boggles me how misguided you are allowing yourself to be in this game.
I had like 4 or 5 people that I thought were leaning scum at the time. I was investigating my top 3. You seem a little tense and paranoid. Why are you so special that you deserve my attention?
Outdated Mafia Stats
EtR's entire history in this game:
#5 - Post about Shark breaking RVS
#10 - Direct response to Shark, acknowledging his apparent breaking of RVS
#94 - Jumped on me for coming off self-conscious
#98 & 102 - Justifies #94
#131 - Tells Voxx that he is not scum
That's it. I had a town read on him so far, but it looks plausible that he baited Shark into shenanigans.
Tell me about it, 11 times and counting. I wasn't kidding when I said I've asked Iso via PM to cheat me into the scumteam in Lucian Mafia
Why are you guys so hard up for Shark to break RVS? Just because he said he did and you want to buy into it doesn't mean he did. Go look at the posts following his post and tell me this again. Hell you even joke as you show us here...
Which is my main concern.
I'm not tunneled on you, nice try.
Stop trying to clear yourself because you've said things in other games. Scum do that. Thanks for that though.
What was your response to his answer? Guess I'll go look.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Then again, I am not experienced enough to know what is and isn't a "scumtell"; I mainly look for logical inconsistencies. I don't really see any from Kosa.
If someone wants to sum up the case, Id appreciate it.
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
There's a third scenario where there's no team gambit going on.
Kosa has more or less the same experience level as I do with the difference that I've been scum.
Because I'm trying to discern who is misguided town and who is opportunistic scum regarding my wagon, and your stated reasoning on me makes me fairly sure you're the second option.
...That's what questions are made for. To attempt to clarify things up. Like the one I've asked him.
The posts he made after mine meant nothing when I've asked that question: they didn't exist at the time Nevertheless, I've acknowledged them in #66 after Shark made a second joke about it.
Yes, I make my last joke before dropping the silliness and going serious on him. What the hell can you possible dislike about that?
I've said it a couple times already: I don't ignore his early play: I ignore THE SCUMMINESS in his early play because that doesn't help in defining his alignment. Read my posts again.
@Shark. I'm sure you'll mention if Kosa misses any games?
They hate us cause they ain't us.
So why do you say he ends the RVS?
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Distracted with IRL and other events. The focus will be on this tonight.
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
Ataghan, Eeveelution, Innistrad, an ongoing one, Chimes and this one.
He replaced in Eeveelution and Innistrad, so no RVS for him on those.
In Ataghan and the ongoing one, he broke RVS with posts that eventually would make him scum suspect #1.
In Chimes he didn't make a terrible post, but nonetheless contributed to end the RVS and was even happy about it:
So there, 4 completed games, 1 ongoing (lol @Survivor Horror not being over yet, mere bureaucracy) and this one. 6 games total. Why?
Rhand and I were referring to my first post on Shark, the facepalm one. Stop being silly.
So.
Again, why do you say he broke the RVS?
They hate us cause they ain't us.
...
...........
*counts to 10*
Dear Archmage_Eternal:
The posts you've quoted were posted after Shark confirmed he was being serious, while the post Rhand was referring to was posted before Shark confirmed he was being serious.
It turns out he wasn't being serious in the end, but I only realized that in #63, stated in #66.
If somehow your intention is to delve into useless argumentation about the end-of-RVS definition like "So, Shark didn't actually break RVS, you did it when you took him seriously!", then excuse me, but I won't lose my time with you anymore.
Hope you find the light in the end of the tunnel.
Regards,
Kosakosa.
*********************************
JR: AE grabs Kosa in a bearhug, and he's squeezing the ever loving life outta him! But Kosa, oh, how despicable, he rakes him across the face! AE's reeling, clutching at his eyes, the referee Void comes in to give the wrestlers a warning!
Void: Hey, none of that!
Cole: That was a brilliant tactical maneuver by Kosa! And now LnGrrrR is stalking his way around the ring, recovering some breath and looking for an opening...
*************************************
@Kosa, so Shark hasn't been scum in any game with you?
@everyone else who's played with Shark, can you back up Kosa's "intentionally scummy RVS break as town" meta? Have any of you played with scumShark?
Club Flamingo Wins: 1!
Hey tag team. Get it? I like the 3 man tag matches....but anyways, back to the game.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
So you like dking's vote on TCM, but then you ask him about why he thinks TCM is scum?
Do you think TCM is scum? You haven't commented on TCM's only other post #117 (you know, the one with more content), and instead only focused on #38 (you know, the one with the vote on you). Is this basically an OMGUS?
In fact, this is all you have said regarding TCM:
How does TCM's vote look like "scum trying to deflect"? What exactly was he deflecting from? And why do you single this out, when you just said that between #34 and #52 you were still in RVS mode?
If Hans is scum with Kosa, that's not buddying, is it?
Pointless question, deflect, deflect.
@Spoiler: I lol'ed.
@Me: Only in Eeveelution, but as a replacement he took no part in the RVS.
@Everyone-but-me: Shark himself can. He's aware of his predisposition in breaking, or help breaking the RVS and likes doing it, as noticeable by him being happy for doing so.
---
Given his lack of experience, do you think dking is town or scum?
Yes, and how does this tell you anything about AE's alignment?
That's funny, that was what *I* thought when I saw the questions I asked about. The entirety of your posts at the time consisted of irrelevant stuff (flavor comments) and these two questions, and I don't see how either of those two questions are supposed to help you find scum.
But I thought I should check before I went public, because maybe I was missing something and because I felt that immediate pressure would be counterproductive if you were scum.
See, for example, how I acted towards KCC D1 in Redux Mirror.
VI =/= inexperienced (for example, see Shark, or zwetschenwasser on MafiaScum). Here, let's let the Wiki explain:
Generic isn't playing well, but since there hasn't been a rash of premature vanilla claims lately* it's unlikely that he's scum trying to mimic a premature VT claim and outside of that premature VT claims tend to come from town.
* - If I see another one anytime soon, THEN it's a rash of premature vanilla claims given this and an ongoing. But Generic isn't playing in that one, and I don't get the impression that he's been following it closely. Besides, even if there had been a rash lately I'd be inclined to wait until D2 before doing anything.
PPE: Basic 75 just finished, and Generic was scum there. A quick comparison of early D1 play also suggests that he's town here - his tone is much more serious here than in that game.
Let me get this straight. You think that Kosa is scum... solely because of an apparent contradiction about Shark?
The apparent contradiction that he's been explaining isn't a contradiction in such a way that I think he actually believes it regardless of alignment?
How does this follow? In my experience, this sort of post tends to come from town (scum don't want to obviously defend their partners and don't want to let town go on scummy points).
Case in point: Asenion in Redux Mirror, who concluded that the running discussion about a scummy post made by Nis was going nowhere. Nis was scum, Asenion was town.
Wait a minute. Hawk, why are you questioning dking about his vote on TCM when you've stated in the same post that you like the vote? Looks inconsistent to me.
Why do you think that him wording it that way is a scumtell, given that scum tend to care about the appearance of their posts more than town do?
Uh, buddying is usually done by scum to TOWNIES, not buddies. Explain your thought process here, please.
---
At underlined:
Fade: Why the tone? This is not how I remember you in Redux Mirror (yes, you replaced in but still).
---
*Looks at AE D1 posts in Magical Girls*
*Looks at AE D1 posts in Chimes*
*Looks at AE D1 posts in Redux Invitational*
Why are people thinking that AE is town? On a more typical player, sure, but the way AE's posting here is strongly reminiscent of his scum meta. He's more aggressive and more sure of himself than he is as town. More importantly, he's dismissive of Kosa's defense in a way that strongly suggests that he doesn't actually care about figuring out Kosa's alignment. Observe:
No explanation of why Kosa is wrong, no reconsideration of Kosa, just repetition of previous points in a "no, I am going to get my points against you to stick" fashion. Around here we call that mudslinging.
Also, AE is completely focused on Kosa. He's not paying attention to anyone else. This is not town AE.
And again. Speaks for itself, really.
Utter and complete misrep (AE dismisses Kosa's comments on other games because "scum try to clear themselves with things they've said in other games, when Kosa's reason for mentioning other games... was that this is normal for Shark because he's done it in other games), and AE denies tunneling on Kosa when he's... tunneled on Kosa (focusing on him to the exclusion of almost everything else).
Moreover, that attempt at the "Shark ended RVS stage" point is godawful, especially since Kosa's comment looked like one final RVS comment before going into serious mode (aka a reaction to RVS being over).
EWP:
... And now that Kosa is starting to suspect that something's up, AE backs off and goes nonconfrontational (calls Kosa touchy, goes on a nongame tangent).
THIS IS NOT TOWN BEHAVIOR.
I'm not sure on Hawk, but I'm pretty sure about you.
Vote: Archmage Eternal
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
Don't remind me.
Btw, for the sake of brutal honesty, I've yet to be scum in a while so at the moment I still suck and flounder. And I've yet to actually break RVS as a scum (one game i played as scum from start)
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%