MTG Salvation

Quote from Prophylaxis

Necropsy, can you give final reads?

I can after work, currently on another short break. I've been thinking, and though I read you as scummy to begin with, later posts are ringing more town and I find other players scummier than you right now; namely Wessel with his defensive-feeling personal attacks, emotional posts and scorpion attitude. The last post he made with his tail up was enough to sway me to vote Wessel

Nothing desperate about it, I simply find him the scummiest player.

I flick over a few sites when I get bored, Salve being one of them. I noticed the update on the mafia and made a note to check in the morning. You are over-analysing like crazy now. Does anyone else find this odd or is it just Wessel not understanding the concept of going out for the weekend?

Also, I'm not liking Teia's constant questioning of motives and views; it seems to me there is little interest expressed in the answers and it's more of a guise to appear town. I'm definitely not liking how defensive Prophyl is of Wessel either - particularly after I start poking around.

Wessel, you are setting off alarm bells. From the beginning you have been hyper defensive in your play, and more recently have become aggressive like an injured dog. Getting angry, offensive and emotional is not something a townsided player would do when under suspicion, because they have nothing to hide and no pressure on them to cover their identity.

Although I don't feel Prophylaxis is dumb enough to blatantly buddy the scum, I can't rule it out and it could also be a WIFOM (I'll buddy him because nobody would think I'd play that stupid).

Really not seeing why Wessel is seeing so much scum in Void either, unless he's just trying to bait people into a wagon

Regarding thoughts on mafia while out: I was thinking about the scooby snacks I bought from pak n save, and I was thinking about the R34 Skyline and CefLine sitting in the workshop that were being worked on, and I was thinking about screwing my girlfriend who was bussing back that night. I wasn't really preoccupied on a game on an online forum at the time.

I don't figure anyone else sees the sense in refraining from posting while mentally impaired, clearly I'm the weird one for not wanting to dumbtell or post something stupid or generally crap on the thread with a run-on-text stoned ramble...

Got in late yesterday.

Will read and post after work today.

Quote from Wessel

Oh btw Void, could you still answer why you don't buy that I think Proph probing for my honesty comes from a town mindset?

Wessel, I’m arguing that Prophy probing for your honesty is not enough to call Prophy Town. At least this early in the game.

Wessel
Post#208: I responded to the first two posts in question. If you want more from me on those and then please ask more questions.

As for the one I don’t recall responding too, here is a response:
By “not buying” I mean that I believe you forced your post. You’re a skilled Mafia player and for you to leave out some information in a single post strikes me as odd. I’ve already covered other aspects of this so I’m not sure what I else I can say on the matter.

Quote from Prophylaxis

@Void:

I'm not chaining lynches. I'm simply stating what my reads are and how I want them lynched and in what order. It's just another way of showing my reads.

“Let’s lynch Necorpsy today and a Void/Swishh on Day 2/Day 3” That is a paraphrase of what you said. That is chaining lynches. If you’re trying to show your reads, then simply state those are your reads. There is no need to say the “Let’s lynch Player A on Day X” portion simply because reads change over Night.

Your reasoning is very weak and you did attempt to chain lynches.

Quote from Prophylaxis

Also, thanks for verifying that you're voting swishh for being bad as opposed to being scum.

Explain why you are seeing what swishh does as bad play rather than scummy.

Quote from Prophylaxis

You're really stretching to call me scum, Void. I voted MDenham because I thought those smileys indicated nervousness (you've been caught due to smiley usage in RVS as well; how come you don't know that smiley usage in RVS indicates defensive nervousness?)

You never indicated that the smiley’s represented nervousness. You posted "I don't like the smiley's". Wessel pointed out that they looked nervous.

I am aware that smiley’s can be used as a sign of nervousness, but, as I have explained, your vote on MDenham, at the time, was seen as a RVS post since Martha IS A RUNNING JOKE IN FLAMINGO’S. Tell me, Prophy, how do you expect someone to believe RVS is over when your post contained a JOKE INSIDE OF IT???

Quote from Prophylaxis

After reading his recent posts, I think Void is terrible town. Void tends to be less aggressive and more lurky as scum (see Survival Horror).

Oh, Prophy, I don’t believe you should be talking about terrible townies.

---

If I missed anything, then please direct me to it.

Provided I have some time during my lunch break, is there anything of note I should glance at?

Also the current/last vote count would be nice.

This is a cluster**** that is in dire need of a re-read.

How close is Necropsy to getting lynched at this point?

Got some time off for lunch.
Re-reading now.

@Wessel
You still want me to answer the "valuable" Question? You did have a followup.

Vote Necropsy

The wagon on Wessel is peculiar. I had him leaning scum but now I'm not so sure. This will take a re-read. That aside, I still think Necropsy is our lynch for today.

Unvote
Vote: Necropsy

Necropsy should now be at L-1

Quote from swishh

Unvote
Vote: Necropsy

Necropsy should now be at L-1

Wut r u doin?

Why did you vote Wessel, say this game was a cluster****, then vote Necropsy? More specifically, why the naked vote on Wessel?


@Wessel: Your thoughts on swishh before we go to Night?

Quote from Wessel

I'm not going to defend myself for wanting to save my own skin, plus I've also previously asked people if they wanted to talk more. If there's anyone who should be looked at it's swishh for putting him to L-1 without first confirming it with the rest of the players.

@Caex: I'm going to look at five people toNight, one of them being swishh. I have to say his vote on Necropsy is odd, for the reasons you offered. But I'd like him to explain it before I am going to immediately call foul. Necropsy was the only logical lynch toDay IMO. Btw Caex, I'd still like you to explain what your underlying reason was for voting me.

...

Quote from Caex Kothar

Let's see what shakes loose.
Vote Wessel

Bah. I guess if it hasn't worked by now it's not going to work later.


I specifically made that case on you about your wording to see who'd jump off Necropsy and onto you with me. I'm not sure if you're scum or not, but you're nowhere near as scummy as Necropsy was. If I could convince people to jump ship from Necropsy (probably scum) to you (unknown) with a not-particularly-strong case, we'd probably find some scum unwilling to lynch their buddy or trying to get some momentum in another direction to stall out Necropsy's wagon.

The Planeswalkers began their epic battle as I watched.

Spells flew furiously. Mana was drained left and right, minds and bodies attacked and crippled.

One was quicker to fall than the others, though.

Necropsy showed weakness and was dispatched with haste. A shame.

That's one less servant of Bolas to battle for my cause.

-

Necropsy has been lynched. He was Jace Beleren, Mafia Rolecop.

It is now Night 1. Night actions are due to ZeDorkSlipeur and myself within 72 hours of this post. You may discuss any uses of your role within your clan QT.

The Planeswalkers, after a fitful, sleepless night, rematerialized into the plane of battle.

All minus one, that is.

It seems Caex Kothar never left the realm, his chest blown open, maggots feasting on his entrails.

After a quick check, it is determined that Caex was Gideon Jura, Town Vanilla.

The battle picks up again.

The deadline is set for July 28th.

It is now Day 2. With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Quote from Wessel

@Polski: Why unvote from Prophylaxis in post #128 and remove the pressure you were trying to put on him? What was your read on Proph at that point?

His reaction to my attempt to pressure him did not merit further action. Also, as I said, my willingness to give Necropsy the benefit of the doubt had pretty well expired. While I wasn't ready to assume scum right out of the gate, his behavior never improved, so he became my prime suspect. I thought it unlikely that Proph would instantly attack a scum-buddy as soon as he showed up. so that paired with his reaction to pressure was enough to leave me thinking Proph was more leaning town.

I cordially invite BlackVise to actually provide content toDay rather than lurking. (Seriously, dude. You have the same number of posts as each of the co-hosts. If we're going to lynch all lurkers, you are firmly at the top of that list, and that does nothing to help my gut feeling about you to begin with.)

I would also like everyone to provide their opinion as to how they feel about swishh and Teia, preferably including analysis with regard to their interaction with Necropsy. (I will provide my opinion after at least one of Generic, Proph, or Wessel has done so, as based on Necropsy's play I believe all three of them to be fairly well confirmed as town.)

Quote from Wessel

Wow I have more votes on me than I thought. I'm still waiting for Caex to give his underlying reasoning for his vote on me, and I'd also like to hear some more from swishh and his naked vote on me.

Wants information. Note for later.

Quote from swishh

Unvote
Vote: Necropsy

Necropsy should now be at L-1

Makes a note that Necropsy is at L-1. Why would you do this? Did you want someone to hammer him? Why do you keep voting without giving reasons, anyway?

Quote from Wessel

Well then. I'm not going to risk things.

Unvote, vote Necropsy.

And here comes the quickhammer less than 10 minutes later. His desire for information is no longer present. Someone put Necropsy at L-1 and he leapt on the chance to hammer. We still had some time before the deadline, so why hammer then?

To me, it looks like you're trying to deny the chance for further analysis while busing your buddy for town points, but it's wildly out of touch with your stated desire for information from swishh—you wanted information from him about a naked vote, then you hammer after he throws out another one?

Anyway, given swishh's vote-hopping and active lurking (his posts are, for the most part, extremely short and seem to provide only token content), plus my case on Wessel along with this highly suspicious hammer, my theory's currently a swishh/Wessel scumteam.

@Mod: Do we seriously have nearly a year until deadline, or is that supposed to say July 28 in the thread title?

Yeah, July.

Proph: Opinion on swishh at this point, please?

At this point I'm trying to determine whether or not the scum voted for each other in RVS, which would be terribad play but would make a perfect town victory very easy. (If they did, BV is the third scum, which would explain his lack of posting.)

---

On another note, I'm trying to determine what roles the scum are likely to have, given that we took out the rolecop on D1. Does a roleblocker + godfather sound plausible under certain conditions, or is it more likely to be just one or the other plus a vanilla? (This has a bearing on whether I claim unprompted later toDay, which feels like the correct play to me in the majority of these circumstances.)

I'll respond to everyone tomorrow when I have access to a laptop. Teia is scum, though.

Quote from swishh

I'll respond to everyone tomorrow when I have access to a laptop. Teia is scum, though.

While I greatly appreciate the fact that you are posting on a device not suited for actual usage of the Internet, the lack of verbosity in your recent posts is highly undesirable and is the majority of why you are currently under suspicion.

When you return tomorrow, please open with an explanation of the naked votes near the end of Day 1 and why you believe Teia is scum before returning to any other topics you plan on responding to.

---

In addition, I would still like to see someone else provide an opinion on swishh, since Proph has basically declined to do so (on the grounds that more information is required).

Since there seems to be a case building on me:

Quote from Prophylaxis

Massively noncommittal in all of her posts.

Scummy reasoning for initial vote on Necropsy.

Behaving exactly like in her scum game.

Didn't vote Wessel /or/ swishh after she calls them out.

- I stuck to my read on Necropsy for most of day 1. I had (and continue to have) a confident scum read of Wessel and now one of swishh. I don't just let my questioning of others drop off when they don't answer or when they give unsatisfactory answers. How am I noncommittal?

- If you'd explained how my vote was scummy, I could have responded, but you neglected to do so (outside of quoting it and, I assume, pointing out that it put him to L-2), so I can't.

- Already went over this point. Mod Mafia is a bit awkward to bring up since non-mods can't actually read those games, though.

- Not everyone plays the same way. At the very least, I'd like to see how Wessel and swishh respond before I vote anyone.

EBWODP: When I say "most of day 1" I mean that I developed my scum read partway into day 1 and stuck to it for the remainder.

Quote from Wessel

Quote from MDenham

On another note, I'm trying to determine what roles the scum are likely to have, given that we took out the rolecop on D1. Does a roleblocker + godfather sound plausible under certain conditions, or is it more likely to be just one or the other plus a vanilla? (This has a bearing on whether I claim unprompted later toDay, which feels like the correct play to me in the majority of these circumstances.)

A Godfather is typically either bulletproof or investigationproof (also dependent on what PRs the town has). In a way a roleblocker complements a Godfather, but also overlaps it. They both try to prevent actions (killing or investigative) from the town against the scumteam. So in a basic setup, I'd personally would opt for a different combination. Especially if you also assume the scumteam has a rolecop alongside it (like in this setup), that'd probably be overpowered, whatever the power of the town.

As for a rolecop, that indicates that there are enough town power roles for the rolecop to be able to target (though not necessarily so, cause it also indicates vanilla which might help the scum determine who to NK or things like that), which would indicate to me that there is at least another scum PR. And the third scum is probably a goon, since this is just a basic.

Okay, thank you. (I was vaguely reminded of my first game - off-site - which was a game with a godfather + a roleblocker + a goon, and was thinking about which of the two would make more sense to replace with a rolecop. Also, see later in the post.)

Quote from BlackVise

Quote from MDenham

I cordially invite BlackVise to actually provide content toDay rather than lurking. (Seriously, dude. You have the same number of posts as each of the co-hosts. If we're going to lynch all lurkers, you are firmly at the top of that list, and that does nothing to help my gut feeling about you to begin with.)

Quote from MDenham

At this point I'm trying to determine whether or not the scum voted for each other in RVS, which would be terribad play but would make a perfect town victory very easy. (If they did, BV is the third scum, which would explain his lack of posting.)

Did you miss my V/LA posts? I'm not sure if this was a (poor) attempt at starting a wagon or not.

Anyway, I'm now going to have a look over Teia's posts and then later swishh's. Before anyone asks, my reason for that order being that I'm more familiar with Teia's meta than I am with swishh's.

No, this was an attempt to get you to post since you aren't currently declared V/LA. In addition, you disappeared entirely - without even mentioning another V/LA - between the 3rd and the 8th (on the 30th you'd said "V/LA until Tuesday", which would have been the 2nd).

However...

Quote from BlackVise

Right, I started a long PBPA on Teia but they take ages and in all honesty I don't actually find them helpful - information gets lost in the wall of text.

Anyway, what I see is that Teia was very committed to her suspicion of Necropsy and really hounded him for ignoring her question in post 64. Necropsy flipped scum, which is major town points for Teia in my books. Of course she could have been expertly throwing her scumbuddy under the proverbial bus, but in the games in which I've seen her as scum I haven't seen her doing that.

She's also been very active and engaged with the game rather than lurking through, and her read on Wessel also lines up nicely with mine (read: he's scum).

Anyway, I'm confident that she's town.

...this is why you need to get lynched Day 3. Between your posts and Teia's, it reads like you spent last Night deciding who the easiest mislynch would be. I don't know why you thought it would be Wessel rather than swishh - I mean, hell, I was reading swishh as scum at the end of Day 1 - but... well, as I said in my first post:

Quote from MDenham

Gentlemen, you have herped your last derp.

And now, for the meat of this post, where I claim unprompted because I'm confident that the game is likely solved:

I am Ral Zarek, Town Cop. Night 1 I investigated Teia - on the grounds that I was having trouble getting a read of any sort on her - and got a result of "Not Town".

vote Teia Rabishu and good luck to everyone!

Quote from BlackVise

If she flips town and MDEnham is lying then we get an easy lynch Tomorrow, but I don't see much reason for him to lie at this point in the game.

If she flips town, I'm going to be all at Iso after the game for reasons.

@BV: Who would you pick as the third person of the scumteam after Necropsy/Teia? We've got a while until Teia claims anyway, since she does not believe in being awake while the damn dirty daystar is in the sky, so let's get some more analysis out onto the field.

@Rancid Raptor: My request for more content from BV was not tacit approval of your lurking. Please insert three more quarters to continue post content toDay, including your opinion of who the third scum is.

@swishh: Have you found a laptop yet to post from?

@Void: You are also being quiet, and so content is also requested of you toDay.

Put that vote back, Generic; Teia was at L-2 already.

Actually, strike that; since you're not here and I am, I'll just unvote now with the intent of putting it back later when we have the information we want (or, at any rate, have given Teia a chance to incriminate the third scum).

I will, however, put a notice about this in your file.

Quote from Generic

vote teia

Great when a cop hits its mark first time.

Generic is our third scum.

Vote: Teia

Quote from BlackVise

Quote from Prophylaxis

Necropsy flipping scum has brought down swishh down to null slight leaning scum. After his play in Disney Villains + his counterwagon hopping, I want to see more from swishh before I generate a solid read.

Any chance you could expand on the point about his play in Disney Villains for those of us not involved in that game?

What he's probably getting at is how eager I was to bus Annorax on day 1. I also unvoted and switched to a town player when there was enough town interest in a mislynch. However, my reason for switching from Necropsy to Wessel yesterDay was due to a mistake on my part: I thought I saw MDenham (whom I thought to be scum) vote Necropsy at a time when I didn't make a lot of sense to me for him to be bussing, so I sort of got cold feet re: lynching Necropsy. I realized my mistake later and put my vote back on Necropsy.


Where is Void?

You also get a notice in your file.

Note that I am not saying I do not want Teia lynched, just that speed-lynching her is unhelpful at this point as we should take advantage of this time to start planning Day 3.

Quote from MDenham

You also get a notice in your file.

What does this mean?

It means you, like Generic, need to hold off on trying to speed-lynch Teia because - by my count - she's back to L-1 again:

• Prophylaxis;
• Wessel;
• BlackVise;
• Generic;
• swishh

Generic put her at L-1 while I still had my vote on her, and then stopped viewing the thread (which is the only reason I pulled my vote off).

Quote from Wessel

Ok. I've reread the game during the Night and have a few questions to some people before I post my reads:

@swishh: Firstly, care to tell me the reason for your naked vote in post #236? And secondly, how strong was your read on Necropsy around about post #117?

@Void: What was it that made you vote swishh in post #131?

@Generic: Can you talk me through your thought process when you decided to unvote from a scumread (Necropsy) to someone you also have a scumread on (Proph), but was unlikely to be lynched, as you were his only voter?

@Polski: Why unvote from Prophylaxis in post #128 and remove the pressure you were trying to put on him? What was your read on Proph at that point?

I explained this a few posts above: I thought MDenham was scum and for some reason thought I saw him vote Necropsy. I realized my mistake later.

RE: Post 117, my scum read was strong enough not to unvote him. Does that answer your question?

Quote from MDenham

Quote from swishh

I'll respond to everyone tomorrow when I have access to a laptop. Teia is scum, though.

While I greatly appreciate the fact that you are posting on a device not suited for actual usage of the Internet, the lack of verbosity in your recent posts is highly undesirable and is the majority of why you are currently under suspicion.

When you return tomorrow, please open with an explanation of the naked votes near the end of Day 1 and why you believe Teia is scum before returning to any other topics you plan on responding to.

---

In addition, I would still like to see someone else provide an opinion on swishh, since Proph has basically declined to do so (on the grounds that more information is required).

My scum read on Teia obviously existed before your cop report and stemmed from the similarity between her and Necropsy's play: both were highly noncommittal, willing to sling suspicion around where there seemed to be pre-existing town approval. Given your report on her alignment and her attacks on me and Wessel, what do you make of our (my and Wessel's) alignments?

Quote from Generic

Quote from swishh

Quote from Generic

vote teia

Great when a cop hits its mark first time.

Generic is our third scum.

Vote: Teia

Butthurt I hit your teammate there swishh?

I was under the impression MDenham was our cop - not you. Why do you think I would single you out among all the people voting Teia? That's not entirely rhetorical, and I'll answer it myself. Your cop-comment was 100% unnecessary/glittering generality/filler. Of course it's good when a cop gets a scum report. What on earth would make you think you needed to state this?

Quote from MDenham

It means you, like Generic, need to hold off on trying to speed-lynch Teia because - by my count - she's back to L-1 again:

• Prophylaxis;
• Wessel;
• BlackVise;
• Generic;
• swishh

Generic put her at L-1 while I still had my vote on her, and then stopped viewing the thread (which is the only reason I pulled my vote off).

Fair enough. To avoid a self-hammer:
Unvote