At first I didn't like this wagon. Proph is almost always an early target. I don't like most of his answers, but then again, I never do. What strikes me as interesting is the bolded section. There is a noticible difference in Proph's play this game. This reads as if he noticed it and is trying to explain it away.
I am a little surprised that we've pushed someone to claim this early in the game, but since it's a vanilla claim, it could be worse. If we lynch proph and he's town we could easily be down 3 town (assuming there's a vig) tomorrow, with very little to go on. I think a little more discussion is warrented here.
If you feel so strongly that more discussion is needed, then why don't you add anything to discuss?
At first I didn't like this wagon. Proph is almost always an early target. I don't like most of his answers, but then again, I never do. What strikes me as interesting is the bolded section. There is a noticible difference in Proph's play this game. This reads as if he noticed it and is trying to explain it away.
I am a little surprised that we've pushed someone to claim this early in the game, but since it's a vanilla claim, it could be worse. If we lynch proph and he's town we could easily be down 3 town (assuming there's a vig) tomorrow, with very little to go on. I think a little more discussion is warrented here.
If you feel so strongly that more discussion is needed, then why don't you add anything to discuss?
Most pro-town post of the game so far.
What are your thoughts on Prophylaxis, Rhand? You voted him early on, but haven't provided any recent thoughts(recent in a contextual sense).
If you feel so strongly that more discussion is needed, then why don't you add anything to discuss?
I did. See. You're talking about something else now. And the way that you've phrased this sounds like you're not interested in further discussion and you're ready to move forward lynching Proph. Is that correct?
@Taredas - I'd like to hear from Proph as to why he felt the need to call out his different posting style, but as of right now, no I don't believe he's scum. You also seem to be playing aggressively - is that typical of your style?
And yeah, I know I'm going to be lynched, but definitely not this early.
Can you please evaluate the gamestate if I'm confirmed town? If I'm confirmed, who would you go after and why?
@Wessel, fadeblue, Taredas, EtR, pinky, Emo, dC, AG, Caex: You are the only players who haven't voted for me.
Let's face it.
I've been playing poorly, and I've been scumslipping left and right, first with the Cyan trap, then the "Can you please find a legit reason why I'm scummy?" slip, and then the deflection.
It's clear that my actions are scummy, and I'm going to get lynched because of that.
Why are you not voting me?
Give me clear reasons why.
@DYHMod: Can you please list abstainers in the vote count and fix up the spelling on names? Thanks. Helps a whole lot for voting analysis.
It's happened so many times that I think this might be a case of scum targeting an easy to mislynch player right off the bat. Lynching you know (less than ~150 posts in) creates an absolute black hole that we will have to fight our way out of the rest of the game.
At first I didn't like this wagon. Proph is almost always an early target. I don't like most of his answers, but then again, I never do. What strikes me as interesting is the bolded section. There is a noticible difference in Proph's play this game. This reads as if he noticed it and is trying to explain it away.
I am a little surprised that we've pushed someone to claim this early in the game, but since it's a vanilla claim, it could be worse. If we lynch proph and he's town we could easily be down 3 town (assuming there's a vig) tomorrow, with very little to go on. I think a little more discussion is warrented here.
If you feel so strongly that more discussion is needed, then why don't you add anything to discuss?
Most pro-town post of the game so far.
What are your thoughts on Prophylaxis, Rhand? You voted him early on, but haven't provided any recent thoughts(recent in a contextual sense).
He offers suspects but not much rationale behind them.
He does concede both as town and scum when there's too much pressure on him, so that's a null tell for him.
I still think he's probably scum.
If you feel so strongly that more discussion is needed, then why don't you add anything to discuss?
I did. See. You're talking about something else now.
And the way that you've phrased this sounds like you're not interested in further discussion and you're ready to move forward lynching Proph. Is that correct?
No. I do agree that we should get more out of this day.
@Taredas - I'd like to hear from Proph as to why he felt the need to call out his different posting style, but as of right now, no I don't believe he's scum. You also seem to be playing aggressively - is that typical of your style?
Did you not just say that you do like the Proph wagon? This is your previous post about it:
Quote from EtR »
At first I didn't like this wagon. Proph is almost always an early target. I don't like most of his answers, but then again, I never do. What strikes me as interesting is the bolded section. There is a noticible difference in Proph's play this game. This reads as if he noticed it and is trying to explain it away.
"At first I didn't like this wagon" does imply that you do like it now, right?
I have no idea what to make of that post. Blahhhhh.
You seem to be posting alot Proph, and admittedly for a bit now you've been on defense, but how about some thoughts as to whom you think is town/scum and why?
Seppel's town because his posts read genuine and spontaneous, which is what I expect out of town!Seppel.
AE is scummy because of the FoS.
pinky is scummy because of the "lets nip this one in the bud" post, which feels like scum taking out a potential annoyance early. This read is fairly superficial, though, and I don't have a whole lot to back it up.
Puppet's scummy for the weak hop onto my wagon, as well as not attempting to scumhunt. I need more posts from him, though.
If there is scum on my wagon, I think it's either one of AE or Puppet.
@Proph: I'm not voting you because I'm unconvinced you're scum. I think you're posting too much and providing too much information for what I would imagine a scum would do. Like, with that much pressure on you so quickly (and it looking likely you'll be lynched) you're still asking people to post about you and posting opinions on players and stuff. That seems fairly dangerous if you were scum, because you could end up strengthening the town's position with the info gained from interactions.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
@Proph: I thought it would be clear from my last post that I think Emo is scummier than you.
Most of your defense has given me a town vibe, and I read through your Vanilla Mafia, which looks similar enough to your play here. I haven't read through your scum games yet, but I don't think you're the priority here. That would be Emo.
@Proph: I thought it would be clear from my last post that I think Emo is scummier than you.
Most of your defense has given me a town vibe, and I read through your Vanilla Mafia, which looks similar enough to your play here. I haven't read through your scum games yet, but I don't think you're the priority here. That would be Emo.
Need to reread Rhand, EtR, and AE.
You really think that Proph could be town? Could I oblige you to read Day 1 of Survival Horror(at least to the point where Proph claims if nothing else)?
@Proph: I thought it would be clear from my last post that I think Emo is scummier than you.
Most of your defense has given me a town vibe, and I read through your Vanilla Mafia, which looks similar enough to your play here. I haven't read through your scum games yet, but I don't think you're the priority here. That would be Emo.
Need to reread Rhand, EtR, and AE.
You really think that Proph could be town? Could I oblige you to read Day 1 of Survival Horror(at least to the point where Proph claims if nothing else)?
If it's that big of a deal, someone can just point me to a non-Basic(because behavior in Basic games means absolutely nothing in comparison to real mafia games) game of Proph's that I can look over.
I just have a very hard time believing that he is town here. The differences between his behavior in SH and this game are night and day.
Hmm, I just did a quick skim over Proph's posts in SH and yeah, that's a big difference. He's actively pushing back there, while here he basically resigns himself to being lynched (similar to Vanilla Mafia). Not sure how to reconcile those two games either.
My goals for the game were to "scumhunt, post a lot, and not die to pressure"
At first I didn't like this wagon. Proph is almost always an early target. I don't like most of his answers, but then again, I never do. What strikes me as interesting is the bolded section. There is a noticible difference in Proph's play this game. This reads as if he noticed it and is trying to explain it away.
I am a little surprised that we've pushed someone to claim this early in the game, but since it's a vanilla claim, it could be worse. If we lynch proph and he's town we could easily be down 3 town (assuming there's a vig) tomorrow, with very little to go on. I think a little more discussion is warrented here.
If you feel so strongly that more discussion is needed, then why don't you add anything to discuss?
I did. See. You're talking about something else now. And the way that you've phrased this sounds like you're not interested in further discussion and you're ready to move forward lynching Proph. Is that correct?
@Taredas - I'd like to hear from Proph as to why he felt the need to call out his different posting style, but as of right now, no I don't believe he's scum. You also seem to be playing aggressively - is that typical of your style?
....wow, is this a useless question. You're currently reminding me of everything I was silently going crazy at Cyouni about in Redux II.
Why are you so interested in another player's role abilities this quickly into the game?
I'm not interested in role abilities, only artifact abilities - and that's mostly because Seppel specifically said that he wanted to trade/get rid of his artifact.
It will make more sense later toDay.
I don't buy it. I don't believe you missed where Seppel's artifact ability probably tells you his role as well.
FoS: Taredas
Further, while some of your points on pinky are decent, it bothers me that I know nothing at all about your opinions on Emocakes, ThePuppetMaster, and definitely EtR.
@Wessel, fadeblue, Taredas, EtR, pinky, Emo, dC, AG, Caex: You are the only players who haven't voted for me.
Because the last time I saw this thread was the last time I posted?
That being said, now that I've read the past few pages, while there are good reasons to be suspicious of you, I also think there are better places to look at this time.
Also, while at first glance I kind of liked this question, it loses its impact when you realize you just listed... literally half the game.
#4-6: Seppel confirms himself as town due to poor moderating. +++
#9: pinkys makes a silly RVS post. -
#10: Proph jumps on pinkys but does not vote. Town-claims. --
#12: Taredas wants to use his artifact Day One but withholds further information. Votes pinkys. +
#13: Cyan is 70% sure that AE is scum. -
#14: Proph questions Taredas and Cyan for doing the same thing he did in #10. -
#15: Seppel breadcrumbs his role/artifact combo.
#16: Cyan fishes Seppel. -
#17: Taredas elaborates on pinkys's meta. Fishes Seppel.
#18-19: Proph weakly detracts pinkys's attackers. Bemoans end of RVS. -
#21: Vox agrees with me who agrees with Voxxicus. +
#22: Proph fence-sits on RVS issue. -
#24: dC is dC. /barns Voxxicus.
#25&27: AG claims miller or some such. Pokes at Proph. +
#26&28: Proph continues to be defensive re: RVS. -
#30-31: Caex demonstrates that he failed to read the OP. +
#33: Rhand pokes at Proph. +
#34: Proph continues to weakly detract pinkys's attackers. Fence-sits on rationale for doing so. -
#35: Emo detracts breadcrumbers. Defends Proph for weak reasons. --
#36-37: Proph distances from Emo.
#38: AG votes Emo. +
#39-42: Emo argues semantics with Proph.
#43: Rhand questions Proph-Emo interplay. +
#45: Cyan fence-sits re: Proph. -
#47: Proph seems to be implying that his bad play is due to mounting pressure. (This is noteworthy because the first time I read this, I thought he was claiming that he is currently playing better than usual, when a careful reread indicates that this is definitely not the case.)
#49: Rhand does his research and votes Proph. +
#50: Wessel pokes at Caex & Cyan. (Caex responds. Cyan does not.) +
#51: I demand political asylum.
#52-53: pinkys references self-meta. Fencesits re: Proph-Emo interplay. -
#54: Rhand defends vote. +
#55: Seppel entertains me.
#57-58&60&63&65: Proph detracts Rhand's vote without defending himself. Distances from and fence-sits re: pinkys. Wants to be voted for "a legit reason." -
#59&62&64: Rhand continues to pressure Proph. +
#61: Seppel votes Proph. +
#66: Wessel has good reads but fence-sits on them. Pokes at Proph. +
#68: AG questions Rhand re: Proph-Emo interplay. +
#71: fade pokes at Proph, Rhand, & Caex. +
#75: Seppel pokes at Proph. +
#76: I vote Proph.
#77-78: Proph OMGUS's me. -
#79: Emo /barns Proph. -
#80: pinkys displays an inconsistent stance re: Seppel's vote vs. my vote. -
#81: Rhand calls out pinkys's inconsistency. +
#82-83: pinkys votes fade for weak reasons. Offers weak defense to inconsistency. -
#84: Seppel pokes at pinkys & Emo. +
#85: Wessel /barns Seppel. +
#86: Cyan votes Proph. Uses noteworthy word "telling," which actually means nothing. Pokes at pinkys. -
#87: fade engages pinkys. Votes Emo. +
#88: AE jumps on Proph but does not vote. Engages Cyan & Wessel re: Cyan. FoS's me. +
#89: Proph votes AE for unknown "obvious" reason. -
Explain all of the bolded above, please. Specifically:
1. Why is Taredas 'wanting to use his artifact day 1 and withholding information' a +?
2. Why is Cyan 'fishing Seppel' a -, but Taredas fishing Seppel a null?
3. Why do you seem to be giving out blanket +s to anyone voting Proph/Emo, even if they do so in what you imply is a less than convincing manner? Especially re: Wessel.
4. What do you think of Taredas defending Proph, hm?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Esper Simperer; Even the court homonculi need someone to look down on.
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...' Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
I really don't like post 101 - the second paragraph in particular. It's difficult to articulate, but it's just not genuine. He's trying too hard to be the careful townie.
I also really don't like the discrepancy between 'At first I didn't like this wagon' and then him later saying he's not voting for you because you get mislynched as town frequently.
I think you're town, and I think he knows you're town, and is trying to distance himself from the wagon, while not giving overt opposition, either.
In #116, he backpedals off of the discrepancy I noted prior, and it just feels like self-aware scum.
He's not scumhunting, and despite claiming that he thinks you're being pushed as a mislynch by scum, he has no reads on the people on your wagon. If he were town, that'd be where he was looking to try and find scum, rather than the passive 'There haven't been that many posts yet' reasoning.
Cyan's hard calls for Proph's lynch give me pause as for Cyan's alignment. I have never played with him and I don't know his usual behaviour in these cases, but I'd say he might be town unless he's scum with Proph and he's bussing. But perhaps (or probably) Cyan is a good enough player to be comfortable with causing a mislynch so early on as scum if Proph is town. Long story short, I dislike his posts, haven't seen anything townie from him yet, but they wouldn't be optimal play if coming from scum.
@Cyan, could you tell me why Proph's posts necessarily come from a scum mindset?
I can tell you that his posts are radically different from a game where I *know* that he was town, and that is enough for me. Plus like honestly, he reacted as poorly as someone POSSIBLY can to various pressures on him today. If he IS town, giving him a pass on atrociously scummy behavior isn't going to do him any favors.
And no, that is not me saying that we should policy lynch him. His behavior doesn't reflect what I know of his town meta. His behavior is independently scummy. His claim is completely irrelevant. Etc.
I really don't like post 101 - the second paragraph in particular. It's difficult to articulate, but it's just not genuine. He's trying too hard to be the careful townie.
I also really don't like the discrepancy between 'At first I didn't like this wagon' and then him later saying he's not voting for you because you get mislynched as town frequently.
I think you're town, and I think he knows you're town, and is trying to distance himself from the wagon, while not giving overt opposition, either.
In #116, he backpedals off of the discrepancy I noted prior, and it just feels like self-aware scum.
He's not scumhunting, and despite claiming that he thinks you're being pushed as a mislynch by scum, he has no reads on the people on your wagon. If he were town, that'd be where he was looking to try and find scum, rather than the passive 'There haven't been that many posts yet' reasoning.
Let's lynch him.
I agree with your analysis of EtR's behaviour, but I really dislike how you repeat 'let's lynch him'. Why so eager?
Why are you so interested in another player's role abilities this quickly into the game?
I'm not interested in role abilities, only artifact abilities - and that's mostly because Seppel specifically said that he wanted to trade/get rid of his artifact.
It will make more sense later toDay.
I don't buy it. I don't believe you missed where Seppel's artifact ability probably tells you his role as well.
FoS: Taredas
And if that's not an acceptable price to pay for getting rid of his artifact then I won't be getting rid of it for him at all because the price for letting Seppel get rid of his artifact would be revealing his old one.
Further, while some of your points on pinky are decent, it bothers me that I know nothing at all about your opinions on Emocakes, ThePuppetMaster, and definitely EtR.[/quote]
Emocakes - Could go either way; should come out in the wash.
PuppetMaster - ...
EtR - Funny you would mention that. See below.
@Wessel, fadeblue, Taredas, EtR, pinky, Emo, dC, AG, Caex: You are the only players who haven't voted for me.
Let's face it.
I've been playing poorly, and I've been scumslipping left and right, first with the Cyan trap, then the "Can you please find a legit reason why I'm scummy?" slip, and then the deflection.
It's clear that my actions are scummy, and I'm going to get lynched because of that.
1) L-3 this fast, with only half the players in the game posting? I've seen this sort of thing before, and such wagons are almost always on town - if it was on scum, I'd expect it to form slower, and I'd expect a counterwagon.
2) Prophylaxis's response to the wagon looks way too much like low-morale VI townie, doubly so given that he's claimed vanilla. His response to pressure... is to give up, explain what he was trying to do, and give final reads. That's a classic VI-town response.
3) Speedlynch THIS early into D1? I've seen this before (Mafia Invictus on 'Scum), I know what it does to analysis. (Only reason we lynched any scum at ALL that game is because I dragged the town into two correct lynches with the assistance of a distancing/bussing Mafioso.)
Get off, people. Proph isn't playing WELL, but that doesn't make him scum - and both mindset and circumstantial tells suggest he's town. And there's absolutely no reason to lynch this early that doesn't involve rolebased.
1) L-3 this fast, with only half the players in the game posting? I've seen this sort of thing before, and such wagons are almost always on town - if it was on scum, I'd expect it to form slower, and I'd expect a counterwagon.
This is hugely baseless information. Scum are generally going to wagon a buddy if said buddy is clearly just falling all over himself, and if particular players are involved in the wagon. And I can just as easily say that wagons rarely go THIS quickly on this site, but when they do, it usually results in a scum lynch, because scum don't want to attach themselves to an extremely quick wagon this early in the game. Of course, I can't back that up any more than you can the opposite, which is why I'm not trying to use it as a salient point. It's just my personal recollection.
2) Prophylaxis's response to the wagon looks way too much like low-morale VI townie, doubly so given that he's claimed vanilla. His response to pressure... is to give up, explain what he was trying to do, and give final reads. That's a classic VI-town response.
These statements are completely void of alignment analysis. Well, you're trying to say that they are town, but a player is going to act how you are describing regardless of alignment. Let me put it to you this way. What would you expect a scum to do in Proph's situation?
3) Speedlynch THIS early into D1? I've seen this before (Mafia Invictus on 'Scum), I know what it does to analysis. (Only reason we lynched any scum at ALL that game is because I dragged the town into two correct lynches with the assistance of a distancing/bussing Mafioso.)
Mafiascum only provide accurate information in regard to..other mafiascum games. The same is true for any site, but mafiascum in particular is an inherent cesspool of self-meta. The way things go there is simply not the way things go here.
Get off, people. Proph isn't playing WELL, but that doesn't make him scum - and both mindset and circumstantial tells suggest he's town. And there's absolutely no reason to lynch this early that doesn't involve rolebased.
The 'mindset and circumstantial tells' that you are talking about are null tells. Proph acted scummier than a person ever has business acting in the first 50 posts of a game, and his behavior was markedly different than in SH, a game where he was confirmed to be town. And he literally walked straight into the trap that I set with my innocuous comment about his behavior being different in this game than it was in SH.
Also, given the interactions between Proph and Pinky, it is very plausible that they are both scum.
1) I'd expect most scum to wait a little longer before concluding that Proph couldn't be saved and had to go down - at least until more of the players had posted. Not all, but most.
2) I'd expect scum in Proph's situation to try to fight back (discredit, OMGUS, deflect); once cornered, I'd expect such a scum to clam up and/or claim power.
Proph's initial response to his wagon could come from scum - but he's a VI, and I've seen town VIs react that way to pressure before (especially as vanilla). The important part is that when Proph feels that there's no hope (note: before L-2), he claims vanilla and starts posting final reads/comments.
That doesn't make much sense as scum - he could be WIFOMing with the final reads, but I don't think so. And why claim vanilla instead of a power role, especially given Seppel's comments earlier?
3) Would you disagree that a short D1 leads to an uninformed Town? Because that's the point of the Mafia Invictus example, and I don't think *that* differs between sites.
4) He's also being unusually open about being scummy, and I've learned the hard way that just because someone acts in a scummy manner does not necessarily mean they are scum.
I really don't like post 101 - the second paragraph in particular. It's difficult to articulate, but it's just not genuine. He's trying too hard to be the careful townie.
I also really don't like the discrepancy between 'At first I didn't like this wagon' and then him later saying he's not voting for you because you get mislynched as town frequently.
I think you're town, and I think he knows you're town, and is trying to distance himself from the wagon, while not giving overt opposition, either.
In #116, he backpedals off of the discrepancy I noted prior, and it just feels like self-aware scum.
He's not scumhunting, and despite claiming that he thinks you're being pushed as a mislynch by scum, he has no reads on the people on your wagon. If he were town, that'd be where he was looking to try and find scum, rather than the passive 'There haven't been that many posts yet' reasoning.
Let's lynch him.
Why the certainty? This isn't how you played D1 in Redux II.
My goals for the game were to "scumhunt, post a lot, and not die to pressure"
I still got a lot of votes on me. C'est la vie, I guess.
I'm very sure that at least one scum is on my wagon - who, exactly, I don't know, because I'm getting lynched when the thread hasn't even eclipsed 100 posts.
It's fruitless to lynch me now, as we have the entire /month/ for scumhunting and stuff. Still a couple of people who haven't posted much at all.
I actually think that the scum are on alternate wagons or abstaining - they don't want to vote me because they'll be under heavy scrutiny Day 2, and because voting me is reaching for the easy fruit to pick.
Hm.
Still want more people to post, I guess, and offer more thoughts other than a vote on me. I can still poke people with sticks at L-2 or even L-1.
At first I didn't like this wagon. Proph is almost always an early target. I don't like most of his answers, but then again, I never do. What strikes me as interesting is the bolded section. There is a noticible difference in Proph's play this game. This reads as if he noticed it and is trying to explain it away.
I am a little surprised that we've pushed someone to claim this early in the game, but since it's a vanilla claim, it could be worse. If we lynch proph and he's town we could easily be down 3 town (assuming there's a vig) tomorrow, with very little to go on. I think a little more discussion is warrented here.
If you feel so strongly that more discussion is needed, then why don't you add anything to discuss?
I did. See. You're talking about something else now. And the way that you've phrased this sounds like you're not interested in further discussion and you're ready to move forward lynching Proph. Is that correct?
@Taredas - I'd like to hear from Proph as to why he felt the need to call out his different posting style, but as of right now, no I don't believe he's scum.
Yeah no.
You say you don't believe Proph is scum... but you drop that "noticable difference" and "trying to explain it away" in the first post on Proph, and you leave yourself an escape hatch with that "as of right now". And this is supposed to come from a town mindset how, exactly?
And look at that push/misrep on Rhand. He's claiming that Rhand wants to move forward lynching Proph - but that's not what Rhand was saying at all. Rhand just wanted ETR to step up and generate the extra content he was asking for.
You're scum, and you're trying to have your cake (a Proph mislynch) and eat it too (call Proph town for towncred) by pushing the Proph wagon from the sidelines. And your Rhand attack is projection, because that's the outcome YOU want - you just want to pin the blame for it on others.
I've seen too many scum on MS float anti-town suggestions around random stage and backpedal with "oh, I didn't really mean it" to blindly trust that explanation. (Example: Amrun in an NGE theme on Scum (note that link goes to isolation mode, you're looking for the first post re: Cult and the followup.) Why *not* be explicit that you were being hypothetical to start with?
This helps me a good bit. The MS and Sally metas are quite different. Gambits, not that that is what I did, in RVS are somewhat common here, both from town and scum.
Yeah, I'd be voting ETR if not for the fact that Pinky/farside is still scum.
How do you even know that about me? We have one game of interaction with each other. And I've gotten away from that reputation some anyway(see: Zionite as scum in Cyberspace Mafia).
How do you know about Proph so well? I see you mentioned an ongoing game later on. Do you think people don't change from game to game to improve themselves?
If so why is Proph's differences so scummy?
Tell me why? I show meta this game links and ask you a question, that game I just say I'm been doing it more often.
2) After review, you do occasionally joke in RVS as town. But not in this way - your opening joke was nonconfrontational, and you're quite confrontational as town.
It's a boob joke. There is no way to be confrontational doing a boob joke and no one is saying anything of importance at that point.
3) You didn't address the "less serious in RVS as scum" part of my argument. At all.
The only one I have on this site is the one from Cyan Mafia. If you want me to dig into MS and search my games you are out of luck. I don't have time to search. Off hand I remember voting for a player because I there play style was a determent to the game and did the same RVS as scum and town for a bit.
4) I double-checked about half of your town games here after dropping my original post to guard against meta change (not all, because I know your meta already). I did catch the one with the "chopping down the cherry tree" joke.
Okayyy???
When Pinky offers a read on another player... it's a null read. This often indicates a scum mindset regardless of player (most scum hate coming down on the wrong side of a debate, hence fencesitting), and moreover is not consistent with Pinky's town game.
Emo's actions are confusing and I see a lot of WIFOM. He is trying to defend Proph because he believes Proph is town. He is either scum trying to score brownie points or town that thinks Proph needs to be helped. I didn't see that Proph needed help, but I notice people see things differently and wanted to see if Emo would expand on what he saw.
So far no comment from Emo.
Misrep - there's a tone difference as well, as I noted in my first post.
BOOOOOOOOOBBBBBSSSSSSS!!!!!!
Terse. No explanation of why pointless questions are her favorite scumtell. No questioning to try to figure out fade's alignment. Also, blatant hypocrisy given her questioning this game.
I usually point out pointless questions. Why it's my favorite tell was in regards to an ongoing game at the moment.
That's on TOP of an RVS joke extremely uncharacteristic of farside when town.
This is not town-farside. More votes on her please.
And yeah, I know I'm going to be lynched, but definitely not this early.
Can you please evaluate the gamestate if I'm confirmed town? If I'm confirmed, who would you go after and why?
@Wessel, fadeblue, Taredas, EtR, pinky, Emo, dC, AG, Caex: You are the only players who haven't voted for me.
I don't think you are scum. I think you are bad town.
You started vomitting comments into the game and kept going from there. Some I found cute, others I smacked my head and the one where you voted Emo for not defending you deserves a ration of ****. No one should be expected to be helped or defended. Go scum hunt and look to see who you think is scum instead of bring up the same **** over and over.
@Proph: I thought it would be clear from my last post that I think Emo is scummier than you.
Most of your defense has given me a town vibe, and I read through your Vanilla Mafia, which looks similar enough to your play here. I haven't read through your scum games yet, but I don't think you're the priority here. That would be Emo.
You really think that Proph could be town? Could I oblige you to read Day 1 of Survival Horror(at least to the point where Proph claims if nothing else)?
Why are you pushing a case on Proph where he already stated he was trying to change his game?
unvote:
vote: Cyan
I don't like the post you stated to Tar's. Everything he said you pretty much tore apart like it was inconsequential.
1) L-3 this fast, with only half the players in the game posting? I've seen this sort of thing before, and such wagons are almost always on town - if it was on scum, I'd expect it to form slower, and I'd expect a counterwagon.
This is hugely baseless information. Scum are generally going to wagon a buddy if said buddy is clearly just falling all over himself, and if particular players are involved in the wagon. And I can just as easily say that wagons rarely go THIS quickly on this site, but when they do, it usually results in a scum lynch, because scum don't want to attach themselves to an extremely quick wagon this early in the game. Of course, I can't back that up any more than you can the opposite, which is why I'm not trying to use it as a salient point. It's just my personal recollection.
This is also baseless information. Scum will either buss their buddy or jump on the wagon quickly because it gives the town little info to go on.
I think I have see only one quick lynch that resulted in a scum lynch. I have seen many a town quicklynch.
2) Prophylaxis's response to the wagon looks way too much like low-morale VI townie, doubly so given that he's claimed vanilla. His response to pressure... is to give up, explain what he was trying to do, and give final reads. That's a classic VI-town response.
These statements are completely void of alignment analysis. Well, you're trying to say that they are town, but a player is going to act how you are describing regardless of alignment. Let me put it to you this way. What would you expect a scum to do in Proph's situation?
Lets think about proph for a moment. What is proph going to be like as scum and town based on what is known of him?
Label's are bad in general. Each person reacts differently and does things differently.
3) Speedlynch THIS early into D1? I've seen this before (Mafia Invictus on 'Scum), I know what it does to analysis. (Only reason we lynched any scum at ALL that game is because I dragged the town into two correct lynches with the assistance of a distancing/bussing Mafioso.)
Mafiascum only provide accurate information in regard to..other mafiascum games. The same is true for any site, but mafiascum in particular is an inherent cesspool of self-meta. The way things go there is simply not the way things go here.
Here we have Cyan dismissing any thoughts of a speedlynch being town.
Get off, people. Proph isn't playing WELL, but that doesn't make him scum - and both mindset and circumstantial tells suggest he's town. And there's absolutely no reason to lynch this early that doesn't involve rolebased.
The 'mindset and circumstantial tells' that you are talking about are null tells. Proph acted scummier than a person ever has business acting in the first 50 posts of a game, and his behavior was markedly different than in SH, a game where he was confirmed to be town. And he literally walked straight into the trap that I set with my innocuous comment about his behavior being different in this game than it was in SH.
How was your comment a trap and how did Proph fall for it?
Also, given the interactions between Proph and Pinky, it is very plausible that they are both scum.
BOOOOOOOOOOOOBBBBSSSS!!!!!
*Starts humming wonder woman song in head*
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I am female, hear me roar!
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
@Proph: I thought it would be clear from my last post that I think Emo is scummier than you.
Most of your defense has given me a town vibe, and I read through your Vanilla Mafia, which looks similar enough to your play here. I haven't read through your scum games yet, but I don't think you're the priority here. That would be Emo.
I said boobs twice because the whole joke I made was a boob joke that tar is hung up on and two I said boobs at the end because I notice cyan never once commented on the case tar presented but wants to link me and proph together as a way to give a reason to tar that proph is a good vote.
Why did you notice just the boobs comment and not anything I said in that post?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I am female, hear me roar!
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
@Proph: I thought it would be clear from my last post that I think Emo is scummier than you.
Most of your defense has given me a town vibe, and I read through your Vanilla Mafia, which looks similar enough to your play here. I haven't read through your scum games yet, but I don't think you're the priority here. That would be Emo.
Need to reread Rhand, EtR, and AE.
Why do you think Emo is scummier?
Do you disagree that Emo is scummier than Proph?
I should ask why you thought emo was scummy.
I didn't see you we're talking to proph
Private Mod Note
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I am female, hear me roar!
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
Anyway, Emo's #79 looks bad to me. Quick to turn attention toward a gimmick after only 2 posts, again possibly protective towards Proph. But the Emo-Proph distancing looks weird to me. So maybe it's scum Emo aiming for town cred?
Also don't like his declaration of "AtheistGod and ThePuppet Master for scum right about now" - given that AG reads pretty town to me right now and TPM hasn't posted enough yet.
I prefer Emo over Proph right now. Vote Emocakes
There's also Emo's first post of the game (#35) where:
1) He says "I don't like cryptic stuff like this," which looks like he could be either trying to suppress helpful information or fishing
2) More importantly, he casually calls the Proph bandwagon silly and declares a town read on Proph, at a point where I saw nothing in Proph's posts that indicated town. Also, others already noted that the "bandwagon" was too small at that point to warrant trying to shut it down.
Sorry to make you repeat yourself blue. I usually relay on my memory then going back and rereading.
I felt that cyan respects your oppinion based on him talking specifically to you about your read on proph. Is my thought process about you and cyan correct?
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I am female, hear me roar!
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
My goals for the game were to "scumhunt, post a lot, and not die to pressure"
I still got a lot of votes on me. C'est la vie, I guess.
I'm very sure that at least one scum is on my wagon - who, exactly, I don't know, because I'm getting lynched when the thread hasn't even eclipsed 100 posts.
It's fruitless to lynch me now, as we have the entire /month/ for scumhunting and stuff. Still a couple of people who haven't posted much at all.
I actually think that the scum are on alternate wagons or abstaining - they don't want to vote me because they'll be under heavy scrutiny Day 2, and because voting me is reaching for the easy fruit to pick.
Hm.
Still want more people to post, I guess, and offer more thoughts other than a vote on me. I can still poke people with sticks at L-2 or even L-1.
At first I didn't like this wagon. Proph is almost always an early target. I don't like most of his answers, but then again, I never do. What strikes me as interesting is the bolded section. There is a noticible difference in Proph's play this game. This reads as if he noticed it and is trying to explain it away.
I am a little surprised that we've pushed someone to claim this early in the game, but since it's a vanilla claim, it could be worse. If we lynch proph and he's town we could easily be down 3 town (assuming there's a vig) tomorrow, with very little to go on. I think a little more discussion is warrented here.
So... what you're saying is that you're scum.
That kind of waffly, noncommittal post is exactly why you got lynched in Ataghan.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
Sorry to make you repeat yourself blue. I usually relay on my memory then going back and rereading.
I felt that cyan respects your oppinion based on him talking specifically to you about your read on proph. Is my thought process about you and cyan correct?
I don't know whether Cyan actually respects my opinion or not. We played lots of games together (and had lots of arguments) back before my hiatus, so I assume that's part of it? I suspect he also knows that I can be reasoned with, if he was looking for someone to convince regarding Proph.
@wessel: the lets review after my vote is included in my reason on why I think cyan is scum.
Mm. But you voted Cyan specifically after you said 'Why are you pushing a case on Proph where he already stated he was trying to change his game?' So I'll just assume this was for you the important reason to vote him, backed up with the other things you mentioned. My question is, why does that make Cyan scum? Regardless of whether his arguments are correct or not, why is the fact that Cyan continues to see Proph as scum, despite the latter 'saying' he will better his ways, indicative of Cyan being scum? Do you believe one should just unvote someone you have a scumread on because that players says he will change his game and no longer 'act scummily'?
That kind of waffly, noncommittal post is exactly why you got lynched in Ataghan.
Vote EtR
I don't like this post. Apart from the first line which is none too inspiring by itself, I don't like his second line, for the following reason: Caex talks about '[that behaviour] is what got you lynched in Ataghan'. Not 'what made you scum', but 'what got you lynched'. Now this is hardly indicative of someone who's honestly scumhunting. Coupled with the first line which is just throwing unsubstantiated suspicion EtR's way indicative of trying to seem active by fingering someone, it signifies that Caex is just looking for the lynch, and is not actively trying to find scum. It signifies not caring about who is lynched, as long as there is one.
Vote Caex Kothar.
You're reading too much into the language there, and the way you're wording that argument is really weird.
"Caex talks about '[that behaviour] is what got you lynched in Ataghan'. Not 'what made you scum', but 'what got you lynched'."
The way he was posting didn't make him scum. Someone's posting style doesn't influence if they're scum or not. Them being scum influences their posting style. You've got it exactly backwards and you're trying to use it as some kind of coherent argument when it isn't.
"It signifies not caring about who is lynched, as long as there is one."
No. No it doesn't.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
Proph, is there any reason to remain in RVS? I don't know why we would try to stay in RVS.
Drops hint that his claim will not be received well. To me, sounds like scum trying to justify a future false claim. Follows up with a silly question directed at Prophy's RVS comment which should have had no bearing on the game.
I should probably go ahead and claim this now: Given how my artifact works, I think I need to be using it before the end of the day. I'd like one of the "used artifact" slots reserved for me. I will not explain further at this time.
I'm not interested in role abilities, only artifact abilities - and that's mostly because Seppel specifically said that he wanted to trade/get rid of his artifact.
It will make more sense later toDay.
I don't like cryptic stuff like this.
Also this Prophy bandwagon is silly. There's nothing wrong with wanting to goof off for a bit before getting all super-serious. Reading Prophy as town so far.
Vote Emocakes
That seems an over reaction. The questions toward Proph were not much of a wagon. Has anyone said RVS is bad? You also wanted to register that town read pretty quickly.
I got the impression he was implying RVS was bad in his previous posts and this read as if he contradicted his previous statements. Calls me out for sharing my reads? That especially makes no sense to me, but maybe I just haven't heard of that one before. If it is a tell, he failed to jump on Voxxicus or desCoures for registering town reads on Seppel.
I think you're scum because Emocakes jumped to your defence and you immediately distanced without acknowledging that.
How do you view Proph if Emocakes is town?
A fair question here but nothing groundbreaking, or anything that swayed my previous opinion.
As far as TPM. He has two posts. One with silly flavor for no point at all, when actual things were going on. One, with two words and a vote. I don't see that as town behavior.
Anyway, Emo's #79 looks bad to me. Quick to turn attention toward a gimmick after only 2 posts, again possibly protective towards Proph. But the Emo-Proph distancing looks weird to me. So maybe it's scum Emo aiming for town cred?
Also don't like his declaration of "AtheistGod and ThePuppet Master for scum right about now" - given that AG reads pretty town to me right now and TPM hasn't posted enough yet.
I prefer Emo over Proph right now. Vote Emocakes
Turning attention towards lurking scum. Yes, it is one of my favorite hobbies.
Have you even read TPM's massive two posts? Oh wait, here's another...
#4-6: Seppel confirms himself as town due to poor moderating. +++
#9: pinkys makes a silly RVS post. -
#10: Proph jumps on pinkys but does not vote. Town-claims. --
#12: Taredas wants to use his artifact Day One but withholds further information. Votes pinkys. +
#13: Cyan is 70% sure that AE is scum. -
#14: Proph questions Taredas and Cyan for doing the same thing he did in #10. -
#15: Seppel breadcrumbs his role/artifact combo.
#16: Cyan fishes Seppel. -
#17: Taredas elaborates on pinkys's meta. Fishes Seppel.
#18-19: Proph weakly detracts pinkys's attackers. Bemoans end of RVS. -
#21: Vox agrees with me who agrees with Voxxicus. +
#22: Proph fence-sits on RVS issue. -
#24: dC is dC. /barns Voxxicus.
#25&27: AG claims miller or some such. Pokes at Proph. +
#26&28: Proph continues to be defensive re: RVS. -
#30-31: Caex demonstrates that he failed to read the OP. +
#33: Rhand pokes at Proph. +
#34: Proph continues to weakly detract pinkys's attackers. Fence-sits on rationale for doing so. -
#35: Emo detracts breadcrumbers. Defends Proph for weak reasons. --
#36-37: Proph distances from Emo.
#38: AG votes Emo. +
#39-42: Emo argues semantics with Proph.
#43: Rhand questions Proph-Emo interplay. +
#45: Cyan fence-sits re: Proph. -
#47: Proph seems to be implying that his bad play is due to mounting pressure. (This is noteworthy because the first time I read this, I thought he was claiming that he is currently playing better than usual, when a careful reread indicates that this is definitely not the case.)
#49: Rhand does his research and votes Proph. +
#50: Wessel pokes at Caex & Cyan. (Caex responds. Cyan does not.) +
#51: I demand political asylum.
#52-53: pinkys references self-meta. Fencesits re: Proph-Emo interplay. -
#54: Rhand defends vote. +
#55: Seppel entertains me.
#57-58&60&63&65: Proph detracts Rhand's vote without defending himself. Distances from and fence-sits re: pinkys. Wants to be voted for "a legit reason." -
#59&62&64: Rhand continues to pressure Proph. +
#61: Seppel votes Proph. +
#66: Wessel has good reads but fence-sits on them. Pokes at Proph. +
#68: AG questions Rhand re: Proph-Emo interplay. +
#71: fade pokes at Proph, Rhand, & Caex. +
#75: Seppel pokes at Proph. +
#76: I vote Proph.
#77-78: Proph OMGUS's me. -
#79: Emo /barns Proph. -
#80: pinkys displays an inconsistent stance re: Seppel's vote vs. my vote. -
#81: Rhand calls out pinkys's inconsistency. +
#82-83: pinkys votes fade for weak reasons. Offers weak defense to inconsistency. -
#84: Seppel pokes at pinkys & Emo. +
#85: Wessel /barns Seppel. +
#86: Cyan votes Proph. Uses noteworthy word "telling," which actually means nothing. Pokes at pinkys. -
#87: fade engages pinkys. Votes Emo. +
#88: AE jumps on Proph but does not vote. Engages Cyan & Wessel re: Cyan. FoS's me. +
#89: Proph votes AE for unknown "obvious" reason. -
Turns the thread into shorthand instead of actually trying to progress the game. I find it funny how he classifies fishing differently depending on who is doing it. Looks bad for Taredas. Wouldn't be surprised if he is scum too, what with all the tunneling on Pinky he's been doing.
The "I have something" that contributed to my scum read on Emo was the half hearted defense. he says that he has a town read on me, but why isn't he doing anything to stop or prevent my lynch? His "I have a town read on Prophy" is enough to keep his hands clean, but it's nowhere near enough to have an impact on the wagon.
Unvote, vote Emo
and my vote on AE was just me saying "Why are you using an FoS?"
@AE: The read on pinky is completely unrelated to Taredas's read on pinky. I have her as a slight scum read because "lets nip this one in the bud" sounds like scum chipping away at an annoyance.
I love how big of a deal it was when I called it a bandwagon earlier, yet now when you have votes you want me to jump in and save the day? Makes no sense dude.
My goals for the game were to "scumhunt, post a lot, and not die to pressure"
I still got a lot of votes on me. C'est la vie, I guess.
I'm very sure that at least one scum is on my wagon - who, exactly, I don't know, because I'm getting lynched when the thread hasn't even eclipsed 100 posts.
It's fruitless to lynch me now, as we have the entire /month/ for scumhunting and stuff. Still a couple of people who haven't posted much at all.
I actually think that the scum are on alternate wagons or abstaining - they don't want to vote me because they'll be under heavy scrutiny Day 2, and because voting me is reaching for the easy fruit to pick.
Hm.
Still want more people to post, I guess, and offer more thoughts other than a vote on me. I can still poke people with sticks at L-2 or even L-1.
At first I didn't like this wagon. Proph is almost always an early target. I don't like most of his answers, but then again, I never do. What strikes me as interesting is the bolded section. There is a noticible difference in Proph's play this game. This reads as if he noticed it and is trying to explain it away.
I am a little surprised that we've pushed someone to claim this early in the game, but since it's a vanilla claim, it could be worse. If we lynch proph and he's town we could easily be down 3 town (assuming there's a vig) tomorrow, with very little to go on. I think a little more discussion is warrented here.
Fence-sitting, fence-sitting, stating the obvious...
@Wessel, fadeblue, Taredas, EtR, pinky, Emo, dC, AG, Caex: You are the only players who haven't voted for me.
Let's face it.
I've been playing poorly, and I've been scumslipping left and right, first with the Cyan trap, then the "Can you please find a legit reason why I'm scummy?" slip, and then the deflection.
It's clear that my actions are scummy, and I'm going to get lynched because of that.
Why are you not voting me?
Give me clear reasons why.
Because you're scummy when you play as town or scum. I've read enough of your play to be fairly familiar with your early game posting. Your most recent posts read town defeatist to me.
Taredas, Voxxicus and fadeblue are goodposting.
Seppel and AtheistGod are probably town as well.
Proph is meh, but I agree with Taredas that the speed of the wagon so early on might indicate Proph being town. Proph's not posting convincingly so far, but I don't see a necessarily scummy mindset behind them.
Caex and EtR are uninspiring, possibly scum.
I don't actually see pinky's post as scummy. Still it's too early for me to have anything close to a read.
I'm looking forward to more posts by AE and Emocakes. AE is a possible suspect while Emocakes has suddenly disappeared.
Cyan's hard calls for Proph's lynch give me pause as for Cyan's alignment. I have never played with him and I don't know his usual behaviour in these cases, but I'd say he might be town unless he's scum with Proph and he's bussing. But perhaps (or probably) Cyan is a good enough player to be comfortable with causing a mislynch so early on as scum if Proph is town. Long story short, I dislike his posts, haven't seen anything townie from him yet, but they wouldn't be optimal play if coming from scum.
I disagree with the Taredas goodposting bit as I feel he is tunneling on a null-tell. Fadeblue's posts are meh at best.
Agree on the Prophy front.
Agree on Caex and EtR.
Agree on Pinky.
I honestly haven't noticed AE's presence at all.
It's been less than 24 hours? Can I not sleep or work? Mafia's a rough lifestyle if that's the case.
Cyan is a tough read for me. I'm not a big fan because of his push on Prophy but he has made some good points. If I had to say, probably misguided Town.
Point is, I agree with most of these points and have Wessel as solid town.
At first I didn't like this wagon. Proph is almost always an early target. I don't like most of his answers, but then again, I never do. What strikes me as interesting is the bolded section. There is a noticible difference in Proph's play this game. This reads as if he noticed it and is trying to explain it away.
I am a little surprised that we've pushed someone to claim this early in the game, but since it's a vanilla claim, it could be worse. If we lynch proph and he's town we could easily be down 3 town (assuming there's a vig) tomorrow, with very little to go on. I think a little more discussion is warrented here.
If you feel so strongly that more discussion is needed, then why don't you add anything to discuss?
I did. See. You're talking about something else now. And the way that you've phrased this sounds like you're not interested in further discussion and you're ready to move forward lynching Proph. Is that correct?
@Taredas - I'd like to hear from Proph as to why he felt the need to call out his different posting style, but as of right now, no I don't believe he's scum. You also seem to be playing aggressively - is that typical of your style?
....wow, is this a useless question. You're currently reminding me of everything I was silently going crazy at Cyouni about in Redux II.
Why are you so interested in another player's role abilities this quickly into the game?
I'm not interested in role abilities, only artifact abilities - and that's mostly because Seppel specifically said that he wanted to trade/get rid of his artifact.
It will make more sense later toDay.
I don't buy it. I don't believe you missed where Seppel's artifact ability probably tells you his role as well.
FoS: Taredas
Further, while some of your points on pinky are decent, it bothers me that I know nothing at all about your opinions on Emocakes, ThePuppetMaster, and definitely EtR.
@Wessel, fadeblue, Taredas, EtR, pinky, Emo, dC, AG, Caex: You are the only players who haven't voted for me.
Because the last time I saw this thread was the last time I posted?
That being said, now that I've read the past few pages, while there are good reasons to be suspicious of you, I also think there are better places to look at this time.
Also, while at first glance I kind of liked this question, it loses its impact when you realize you just listed... literally half the game.
#4-6: Seppel confirms himself as town due to poor moderating. +++
#9: pinkys makes a silly RVS post. -
#10: Proph jumps on pinkys but does not vote. Town-claims. --
#12: Taredas wants to use his artifact Day One but withholds further information. Votes pinkys. +
#13: Cyan is 70% sure that AE is scum. -
#14: Proph questions Taredas and Cyan for doing the same thing he did in #10. -
#15: Seppel breadcrumbs his role/artifact combo.
#16: Cyan fishes Seppel. -
#17: Taredas elaborates on pinkys's meta. Fishes Seppel.
#18-19: Proph weakly detracts pinkys's attackers. Bemoans end of RVS. -
#21: Vox agrees with me who agrees with Voxxicus. +
#22: Proph fence-sits on RVS issue. -
#24: dC is dC. /barns Voxxicus.
#25&27: AG claims miller or some such. Pokes at Proph. +
#26&28: Proph continues to be defensive re: RVS. -
#30-31: Caex demonstrates that he failed to read the OP. +
#33: Rhand pokes at Proph. +
#34: Proph continues to weakly detract pinkys's attackers. Fence-sits on rationale for doing so. -
#35: Emo detracts breadcrumbers. Defends Proph for weak reasons. --
#36-37: Proph distances from Emo.
#38: AG votes Emo. +
#39-42: Emo argues semantics with Proph.
#43: Rhand questions Proph-Emo interplay. +
#45: Cyan fence-sits re: Proph. -
#47: Proph seems to be implying that his bad play is due to mounting pressure. (This is noteworthy because the first time I read this, I thought he was claiming that he is currently playing better than usual, when a careful reread indicates that this is definitely not the case.)
#49: Rhand does his research and votes Proph. +
#50: Wessel pokes at Caex & Cyan. (Caex responds. Cyan does not.) +
#51: I demand political asylum.
#52-53: pinkys references self-meta. Fencesits re: Proph-Emo interplay. -
#54: Rhand defends vote. +
#55: Seppel entertains me.
#57-58&60&63&65: Proph detracts Rhand's vote without defending himself. Distances from and fence-sits re: pinkys. Wants to be voted for "a legit reason." -
#59&62&64: Rhand continues to pressure Proph. +
#61: Seppel votes Proph. +
#66: Wessel has good reads but fence-sits on them. Pokes at Proph. +
#68: AG questions Rhand re: Proph-Emo interplay. +
#71: fade pokes at Proph, Rhand, & Caex. +
#75: Seppel pokes at Proph. +
#76: I vote Proph.
#77-78: Proph OMGUS's me. -
#79: Emo /barns Proph. -
#80: pinkys displays an inconsistent stance re: Seppel's vote vs. my vote. -
#81: Rhand calls out pinkys's inconsistency. +
#82-83: pinkys votes fade for weak reasons. Offers weak defense to inconsistency. -
#84: Seppel pokes at pinkys & Emo. +
#85: Wessel /barns Seppel. +
#86: Cyan votes Proph. Uses noteworthy word "telling," which actually means nothing. Pokes at pinkys. -
#87: fade engages pinkys. Votes Emo. +
#88: AE jumps on Proph but does not vote. Engages Cyan & Wessel re: Cyan. FoS's me. +
#89: Proph votes AE for unknown "obvious" reason. -
Explain all of the bolded above, please. Specifically:
1. Why is Taredas 'wanting to use his artifact day 1 and withholding information' a +?
2. Why is Cyan 'fishing Seppel' a -, but Taredas fishing Seppel a null?
3. Why do you seem to be giving out blanket +s to anyone voting Proph/Emo, even if they do so in what you imply is a less than convincing manner? Especially re: Wessel.
4. What do you think of Taredas defending Proph, hm?
I want to see some actual content from TPM, but for the time being there's someone with a lot more posts and roughly the same amount of useful content.
Mm. But you voted Cyan specifically after you said 'Why are you pushing a case on Proph where he already stated he was trying to change his game?' So I'll just assume this was for you the important reason to vote him, backed up with the other things you mentioned. My question is, why does that make Cyan scum? Regardless of whether his arguments are correct or not, why is the fact that Cyan continues to see Proph as scum, despite the latter 'saying' he will better his ways, indicative of Cyan being scum? Do you believe one should just unvote someone you have a scumread on because that players says he will change his game and no longer 'act scummily'?
reputation talk Doesn’t explain why someone sticking around and wanting to input is scummy
In short he doesn’t explain **** about why he thinks anything Proph is doing is scummy.
There is nothing defined by Cyan as to why he pushes the Proph lynch or what that change is that is so scummy. Again people change, that doesn’t = scum or town.
Also I usually have to go somewhere after posting, my post will most likely be out of order because I'm in a hurry.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I am female, hear me roar!
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
You really think that Proph could be town? Could I oblige you to read Day 1 of Survival Horror(at least to the point where Proph claims if nothing else)?
Why are you pushing a case on Proph where he already stated he was trying to change his game?
unvote:
vote: Cyan
This peaks my interest. Lets hear from Cyan on this.
But Pinky where did Proph state he was trying to change?
1. Why is Taredas 'wanting to use his artifact day 1 and withholding information' a +?
2. Why is Cyan 'fishing Seppel' a -, but Taredas fishing Seppel a null?
3. Why do you seem to be giving out blanket +s to anyone voting Proph/Emo, even if they do so in what you imply is a less than convincing manner? Especially re: Wessel.
4. What do you think of Taredas defending Proph, hm?
1. Taredas's claim is null. I liked that he voted pinkys.
2. Cyan's fishing was much more self-conscious. Also, Taredas elaborated on pinkys's meta, which shows that he is able to back up his accusations. The fishing, when paired with the meta evidence, end up being a wash.
3. I liked Wessel's reads, though I didn't like his play. He could be scum going after soft targets, but it is more likely that he is overly cautious town.
4. Proph completely crumpled after Cyan's vote, and all pressure disappeared with the claim. Taredas's reaction reads as genuine, and I'm willing to trust his instincts.
I want to see some actual content from TPM, but for the time being there's someone with a lot more posts and roughly the same amount of useful content.
Unvote
Vote EtR
So despite fadeblue being "meh at best," you are taking his advice by moving away from me onto a softer target. Voting players for having low content in the first 72 hours of a game is about as productive as pissing into a hurricane. This reeks of opportunism rather than scum-hunting.
If you feel so strongly that more discussion is needed, then why don't you add anything to discuss?
Most pro-town post of the game so far.
What are your thoughts on Prophylaxis, Rhand? You voted him early on, but haven't provided any recent thoughts(recent in a contextual sense).
I did. See. You're talking about something else now. And the way that you've phrased this sounds like you're not interested in further discussion and you're ready to move forward lynching Proph. Is that correct?
@Taredas - I'd like to hear from Proph as to why he felt the need to call out his different posting style, but as of right now, no I don't believe he's scum. You also seem to be playing aggressively - is that typical of your style?
And yeah, I know I'm going to be lynched, but definitely not this early.
Can you please evaluate the gamestate if I'm confirmed town? If I'm confirmed, who would you go after and why?
@Wessel, fadeblue, Taredas, EtR, pinky, Emo, dC, AG, Caex: You are the only players who haven't voted for me.
Let's face it.
I've been playing poorly, and I've been scumslipping left and right, first with the Cyan trap, then the "Can you please find a legit reason why I'm scummy?" slip, and then the deflection.
It's clear that my actions are scummy, and I'm going to get lynched because of that.
Why are you not voting me?
Give me clear reasons why.
@DYHMod: Can you please list abstainers in the vote count and fix up the spelling on names? Thanks. Helps a whole lot for voting analysis.
It's happened so many times that I think this might be a case of scum targeting an easy to mislynch player right off the bat. Lynching you know (less than ~150 posts in) creates an absolute black hole that we will have to fight our way out of the rest of the game.
He offers suspects but not much rationale behind them.
He does concede both as town and scum when there's too much pressure on him, so that's a null tell for him.
I still think he's probably scum.
No. I do agree that we should get more out of this day.
Did you not just say that you do like the Proph wagon? This is your previous post about it:
"At first I didn't like this wagon" does imply that you do like it now, right?
EtR: who's the scum that is trying to mislynch Proph?
You seem to be posting alot Proph, and admittedly for a bit now you've been on defense, but how about some thoughts as to whom you think is town/scum and why?
We're 112 posts in. I have no clue yet.
That means there are no bad/weak votes on Proph; nothing that stands out as potentially scummy? No suspicious behavior of anyone on the Proph wagon?
I know we're in the early game, but the game is definitely on.
Rhand is town due to legitimate scumhunting.
Seppel's town because his posts read genuine and spontaneous, which is what I expect out of town!Seppel.
AE is scummy because of the FoS.
pinky is scummy because of the "lets nip this one in the bud" post, which feels like scum taking out a potential annoyance early. This read is fairly superficial, though, and I don't have a whole lot to back it up.
Puppet's scummy for the weak hop onto my wagon, as well as not attempting to scumhunt. I need more posts from him, though.
If there is scum on my wagon, I think it's either one of AE or Puppet.
Emo's scummy for reasons I outlined earlier.
{Magic: The RPG}
Only post I actually don't like is the 'What proof do you have that I'm scum' thing.
EtR is scum. Let's lynch him.
Vote: EtR
Most of your defense has given me a town vibe, and I read through your Vanilla Mafia, which looks similar enough to your play here. I haven't read through your scum games yet, but I don't think you're the priority here. That would be Emo.
Need to reread Rhand, EtR, and AE.
You really think that Proph could be town? Could I oblige you to read Day 1 of Survival Horror(at least to the point where Proph claims if nothing else)?
Let me take a look.
Cyan, what's your read on Emo?
I'll take a look at Emo.
I just have a very hard time believing that he is town here. The differences between his behavior in SH and this game are night and day.
I think we should all stop talking about roles v. artifacts. Yes?
----------------------------------
@EtR
I don't see you doing much jumping. On anything.
Taredas answered you, and you did... nothing. No elaboration on either Taredas or pinky's brain.
This is remarkably non-committal.
....wow, is this a useless question. You're currently reminding me of everything I was silently going crazy at Cyouni about in Redux II.
Vote: EtR
@Taredas
I don't buy it. I don't believe you missed where Seppel's artifact ability probably tells you his role as well.
FoS: Taredas
Further, while some of your points on pinky are decent, it bothers me that I know nothing at all about your opinions on Emocakes, ThePuppetMaster, and definitely EtR.
@Prophylaxis
This was in reference to you voting Emocakes, correct? Expound on what that 'legit scumtell' was, please.
Because the last time I saw this thread was the last time I posted?
That being said, now that I've read the past few pages, while there are good reasons to be suspicious of you, I also think there are better places to look at this time.
Also, while at first glance I kind of liked this question, it loses its impact when you realize you just listed... literally half the game.
@ThePuppetMaster
Pot and kettle, right here, chatting on the stove.
Query, Puppeteer.
Explain all of the bolded above, please. Specifically:
1. Why is Taredas 'wanting to use his artifact day 1 and withholding information' a +?
2. Why is Cyan 'fishing Seppel' a -, but Taredas fishing Seppel a null?
3. Why do you seem to be giving out blanket +s to anyone voting Proph/Emo, even if they do so in what you imply is a less than convincing manner? Especially re: Wessel.
4. What do you think of Taredas defending Proph, hm?
Jund Fangirl; Few things can describe the bliss of the fangirl's cries fading to silence (broken by occasional munching sounds).
Grixis Emo; 'Why should I go out there? They're all uncaring zombies! *sniff* No one understands me...'
Bant Wageslave; Behind every successful knight is a corporate drudge doing his taxwork.
Naya Overenthusiast; Because there is such a thing as too much enthusiasm.
Can't quote at the moment, but can reference.
I really don't like post 101 - the second paragraph in particular. It's difficult to articulate, but it's just not genuine. He's trying too hard to be the careful townie.
I also really don't like the discrepancy between 'At first I didn't like this wagon' and then him later saying he's not voting for you because you get mislynched as town frequently.
I think you're town, and I think he knows you're town, and is trying to distance himself from the wagon, while not giving overt opposition, either.
In #116, he backpedals off of the discrepancy I noted prior, and it just feels like self-aware scum.
He's not scumhunting, and despite claiming that he thinks you're being pushed as a mislynch by scum, he has no reads on the people on your wagon. If he were town, that'd be where he was looking to try and find scum, rather than the passive 'There haven't been that many posts yet' reasoning.
Let's lynch him.
I can tell you that his posts are radically different from a game where I *know* that he was town, and that is enough for me. Plus like honestly, he reacted as poorly as someone POSSIBLY can to various pressures on him today. If he IS town, giving him a pass on atrociously scummy behavior isn't going to do him any favors.
And no, that is not me saying that we should policy lynch him. His behavior doesn't reflect what I know of his town meta. His behavior is independently scummy. His claim is completely irrelevant. Etc.
I agree with your analysis of EtR's behaviour, but I really dislike how you repeat 'let's lynch him'. Why so eager?
And if that's not an acceptable price to pay for getting rid of his artifact then I won't be getting rid of it for him at all because the price for letting Seppel get rid of his artifact would be revealing his old one.
Further, while some of your points on pinky are decent, it bothers me that I know nothing at all about your opinions on Emocakes, ThePuppetMaster, and definitely EtR.[/quote]
Emocakes - Could go either way; should come out in the wash.
PuppetMaster - ...
EtR - Funny you would mention that. See below.
---
Uh...
---
1) I'd expect most scum to wait a little longer before concluding that Proph couldn't be saved and had to go down - at least until more of the players had posted. Not all, but most.
2) I'd expect scum in Proph's situation to try to fight back (discredit, OMGUS, deflect); once cornered, I'd expect such a scum to clam up and/or claim power.
Proph's initial response to his wagon could come from scum - but he's a VI, and I've seen town VIs react that way to pressure before (especially as vanilla). The important part is that when Proph feels that there's no hope (note: before L-2), he claims vanilla and starts posting final reads/comments.
That doesn't make much sense as scum - he could be WIFOMing with the final reads, but I don't think so. And why claim vanilla instead of a power role, especially given Seppel's comments earlier?
3) Would you disagree that a short D1 leads to an uninformed Town? Because that's the point of the Mafia Invictus example, and I don't think *that* differs between sites.
4) He's also being unusually open about being scummy, and I've learned the hard way that just because someone acts in a scummy manner does not necessarily mean they are scum.
---
Why the certainty? This isn't how you played D1 in Redux II.
---
Yeah no.
You say you don't believe Proph is scum... but you drop that "noticable difference" and "trying to explain it away" in the first post on Proph, and you leave yourself an escape hatch with that "as of right now". And this is supposed to come from a town mindset how, exactly?
And look at that push/misrep on Rhand. He's claiming that Rhand wants to move forward lynching Proph - but that's not what Rhand was saying at all. Rhand just wanted ETR to step up and generate the extra content he was asking for.
You're scum, and you're trying to have your cake (a Proph mislynch) and eat it too (call Proph town for towncred) by pushing the Proph wagon from the sidelines. And your Rhand attack is projection, because that's the outcome YOU want - you just want to pin the blame for it on others.
Why ask this?
Forget Cyouni, I'm reminded of part of Nis's defense from the D1 wagon:
Yeah, I'd be voting ETR if not for the fact that Pinky/farside is still scum.
Actually, better plan. Farside can wait a bit.
Unvote, Vote: ETR
FoS: farside/Pinky
It is too late for the pebbles to vote."
How do you know about Proph so well? I see you mentioned an ongoing game later on. Do you think people don't change from game to game to improve themselves?
If so why is Proph's differences so scummy?
Tell me why? I show meta this game links and ask you a question, that game I just say I'm been doing it more often.
It's a boob joke. There is no way to be confrontational doing a boob joke and no one is saying anything of importance at that point.
The only one I have on this site is the one from Cyan Mafia. If you want me to dig into MS and search my games you are out of luck. I don't have time to search. Off hand I remember voting for a player because I there play style was a determent to the game and did the same RVS as scum and town for a bit.
Okayyy???
Emo's actions are confusing and I see a lot of WIFOM. He is trying to defend Proph because he believes Proph is town. He is either scum trying to score brownie points or town that thinks Proph needs to be helped. I didn't see that Proph needed help, but I notice people see things differently and wanted to see if Emo would expand on what he saw.
So far no comment from Emo.
BOOOOOOOOOBBBBBSSSSSSS!!!!!!
I usually point out pointless questions. Why it's my favorite tell was in regards to an ongoing game at the moment.
BOOOOOOOOOBBBBSSSS!!!!!!
I don't think you are scum. I think you are bad town.
You started vomitting comments into the game and kept going from there. Some I found cute, others I smacked my head and the one where you voted Emo for not defending you deserves a ration of ****. No one should be expected to be helped or defended. Go scum hunt and look to see who you think is scum instead of bring up the same **** over and over.
Why do you think Emo is scummier?
Why are you pushing a case on Proph where he already stated he was trying to change his game?
unvote:
vote: Cyan
I don't like the post you stated to Tar's. Everything he said you pretty much tore apart like it was inconsequential.
Lets review:
This is also baseless information. Scum will either buss their buddy or jump on the wagon quickly because it gives the town little info to go on.
I think I have see only one quick lynch that resulted in a scum lynch. I have seen many a town quicklynch.
Lets think about proph for a moment. What is proph going to be like as scum and town based on what is known of him?
Label's are bad in general. Each person reacts differently and does things differently.
Here we have Cyan dismissing any thoughts of a speedlynch being town.
How was your comment a trap and how did Proph fall for it?
BOOOOOOOOOOOOBBBBSSSS!!!!!
*Starts humming wonder woman song in head*
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
Seppel attacks.
Unvote, vote Pinky
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
Do you disagree that Emo is scummier than Proph?
I said boobs twice because the whole joke I made was a boob joke that tar is hung up on and two I said boobs at the end because I notice cyan never once commented on the case tar presented but wants to link me and proph together as a way to give a reason to tar that proph is a good vote.
Why did you notice just the boobs comment and not anything I said in that post?
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
I should ask why you thought emo was scummy.
I didn't see you we're talking to proph
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
There's also Emo's first post of the game (#35) where:
1) He says "I don't like cryptic stuff like this," which looks like he could be either trying to suppress helpful information or fishing
2) More importantly, he casually calls the Proph bandwagon silly and declares a town read on Proph, at a point where I saw nothing in Proph's posts that indicated town. Also, others already noted that the "bandwagon" was too small at that point to warrant trying to shut it down.
Notably, Emo hasn't posted since #79.
I felt that cyan respects your oppinion based on him talking specifically to you about your read on proph. Is my thought process about you and cyan correct?
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
That kind of waffly, noncommittal post is exactly why you got lynched in Ataghan.
Vote EtR
{Magic: The RPG}
I don't know whether Cyan actually respects my opinion or not. We played lots of games together (and had lots of arguments) back before my hiatus, so I assume that's part of it? I suspect he also knows that I can be reasoned with, if he was looking for someone to convince regarding Proph.
You're reading too much into the language there, and the way you're wording that argument is really weird.
"Caex talks about '[that behaviour] is what got you lynched in Ataghan'. Not 'what made you scum', but 'what got you lynched'."
The way he was posting didn't make him scum. Someone's posting style doesn't influence if they're scum or not. Them being scum influences their posting style. You've got it exactly backwards and you're trying to use it as some kind of coherent argument when it isn't.
"It signifies not caring about who is lynched, as long as there is one."
No. No it doesn't.
{Magic: The RPG}
Admits there was no real point to his question to Prophy.
I got the impression he was implying RVS was bad in his previous posts and this read as if he contradicted his previous statements. Calls me out for sharing my reads? That especially makes no sense to me, but maybe I just haven't heard of that one before. If it is a tell, he failed to jump on Voxxicus or desCoures for registering town reads on Seppel.
A fair question here but nothing groundbreaking, or anything that swayed my previous opinion.
As far as TPM. He has two posts. One with silly flavor for no point at all, when actual things were going on. One, with two words and a vote. I don't see that as town behavior.
Turning attention towards lurking scum. Yes, it is one of my favorite hobbies.
Have you even read TPM's massive two posts? Oh wait, here's another...
Turns the thread into shorthand instead of actually trying to progress the game. I find it funny how he classifies fishing differently depending on who is doing it. Looks bad for Taredas. Wouldn't be surprised if he is scum too, what with all the tunneling on Pinky he's been doing.
I love how big of a deal it was when I called it a bandwagon earlier, yet now when you have votes you want me to jump in and save the day? Makes no sense dude.
Defeatist. Still like Prophy for town.
Fence-sitting, fence-sitting, stating the obvious...
Don't like EtR for town.
Because you're scummy when you play as town or scum. I've read enough of your play to be fairly familiar with your early game posting. Your most recent posts read town defeatist to me.
Hey, look who isn't paying any attention! You know who doesn't pay attention?
Scum.
I disagree with the Taredas goodposting bit as I feel he is tunneling on a null-tell. Fadeblue's posts are meh at best.
Agree on the Prophy front.
Agree on Caex and EtR.
Agree on Pinky.
I honestly haven't noticed AE's presence at all.
It's been less than 24 hours? Can I not sleep or work? Mafia's a rough lifestyle if that's the case.
Cyan is a tough read for me. I'm not a big fan because of his push on Prophy but he has made some good points. If I had to say, probably misguided Town.
Point is, I agree with most of these points and have Wessel as solid town.
I like this guy. desCoures for town.
Blatant mudsling is blatant.
I want to see some actual content from TPM, but for the time being there's someone with a lot more posts and roughly the same amount of useful content.
Unvote
Vote EtR
Sig & Avvy by Disappointing Signets Inc.
CCC&G BRAGGING RIGHTS
Mafia Statistics
I collect pacifism: 228
Sig & Avvy by Disappointing Signets Inc.
CCC&G BRAGGING RIGHTS
Mafia Statistics
I collect pacifism: 228
Unvote, vote Emocakes.
Either scum or horribly wrong.
It is the sole reason that Cyan has pushed on Proph. I noticed throughout his push on Proph the following.
post 86 from Cyan doesn’t explain what is scummy
need more votes no explanation
reputation talk Doesn’t explain why someone sticking around and wanting to input is scummy
In short he doesn’t explain **** about why he thinks anything Proph is doing is scummy.
There is nothing defined by Cyan as to why he pushes the Proph lynch or what that change is that is so scummy. Again people change, that doesn’t = scum or town.
Also I usually have to go somewhere after posting, my post will most likely be out of order because I'm in a hurry.
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
Whats the issue here?
This peaks my interest. Lets hear from Cyan on this.
But Pinky where did Proph state he was trying to change?
They hate us cause they ain't us.
1. Taredas's claim is null. I liked that he voted pinkys.
2. Cyan's fishing was much more self-conscious. Also, Taredas elaborated on pinkys's meta, which shows that he is able to back up his accusations. The fishing, when paired with the meta evidence, end up being a wash.
3. I liked Wessel's reads, though I didn't like his play. He could be scum going after soft targets, but it is more likely that he is overly cautious town.
4. Proph completely crumpled after Cyan's vote, and all pressure disappeared with the claim. Taredas's reaction reads as genuine, and I'm willing to trust his instincts.
/barn
So despite fadeblue being "meh at best," you are taking his advice by moving away from me onto a softer target. Voting players for having low content in the first 72 hours of a game is about as productive as pissing into a hurricane. This reeks of opportunism rather than scum-hunting.
Hive mind initiate.
Unvote
Vote Emocakes