@PG: It's stated literally in paragraph 2 that "It is common to ascend through the ranks by assassinating superiors". Where your wizard is on that page is irrelevant. The fact that you are a wizard is enough to know that you would like to see the headmaster dead. In other words: any wizard can be scum.
As for PR's: read the description of Ponder Stibbons. Again, literally from the wiki: "Ponder Stibbons fulfills the role of the one person in the organisation who knows what's going on". Easy NK target, and that's just from the Wiki.
If any of the scum members actually read the books, a name claim can give away all the info they need.
I know you like to call lazyness in your defense, but if you want to point to a wiki as proof that a mass claim can't harm town, you should start by really reading that wiki.
A big FoS to you.
I think you're giving WAY too much weight on flavor. Just because the flavor indicates that someone might be cop or doc or vig doesn't necessarily make them that. Games are suppose to be made so that such flavor gaming does not happen.
Also, Ponder Stibbons knowing what goes on all around the university doesn't make him an instant PR... Is it possible? Yes, but may not be the case. For all we know RL didn't even choose him as one of the characters to be played.
Anyway, even after reading that wiki I don't really feel like a mass name claim because I don't think that'd get us anywhere... The point I'm trying to get across is that you should not think it's a scum indicator that people are proposing a mass name claim.
You're giving me more and more scum vibes.
First you don't mind a mass name claim because of the wiki not telling anything.
Then when pointed out that the wiki does tell stuff, you defend your point by saying that flavorgaming shouldn't happen. Then you change your mind about the massclaim?
So what is it, do you or do you not want a mass name claim?
I just don't see a pro-town reason for proposing (or supporting) a mass name claim.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I attacked the proposal and not you because you did it during RVS.
After my attack of the proposal, you didn't continue to push the claim, so I didn't see the need to attack you for it.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Rhand: After browsing through this, I fail to see how a mass name claim would hurt. As a matter of fact, I think my character is listed under 'other staff'...
@PG: It's stated literally in paragraph 2 that "It is common to ascend through the ranks by assassinating superiors". Where your wizard is on that page is irrelevant. The fact that you are a wizard is enough to know that you would like to see the headmaster dead. In other words: any wizard can be scum.
As for PR's: read the description of Ponder Stibbons. Again, literally from the wiki: "Ponder Stibbons fulfills the role of the one person in the organisation who knows what's going on". Easy NK target, and that's just from the Wiki.
If any of the scum members actually read the books, a name claim can give away all the info they need.
I know you like to call lazyness in your defense, but if you want to point to a wiki as proof that a mass claim can't harm town, you should start by really reading that wiki.
A big FoS to you.
I think you're giving WAY too much weight on flavor. Just because the flavor indicates that someone might be cop or doc or vig doesn't necessarily make them that. Games are suppose to be made so that such flavor gaming does not happen.
Also, Ponder Stibbons knowing what goes on all around the university doesn't make him an instant PR... Is it possible? Yes, but may not be the case. For all we know RL didn't even choose him as one of the characters to be played.
Anyway, even after reading that wiki I don't really feel like a mass name claim because I don't think that'd get us anywhere... The point I'm trying to get across is that you should not think it's a scum indicator that people are proposing a mass name claim.
You're giving me more and more scum vibes.
First you don't mind a mass name claim because of the wiki not telling anything.
Then when pointed out that the wiki does tell stuff, you defend your point by saying that flavorgaming shouldn't happen. Then you change your mind about the massclaim?
So what is it, do you or do you not want a mass name claim?
I just don't see a pro-town reason for proposing (or supporting) a mass name claim.
Rhand... As I said before you are reading too much into things. I've quoted my post for cohesion. I said that I don't see how a name claim would hurt (perhaps poor word choice on my part? :shrug:); however, that does not mean that I am for a name claim. Please refrain from twisting my words to how you see fit. I stated before that I was not for a name claim because I didn't know the flavor and I'm still not for a name claim even after I've had a taste of the flavor. That has not changed. I am similarly not convinced that a name claim would actually do anything. As stated earlier as well, I don't think it is correct to say it is a scum motive to ask for a name claim either.
Flavorless late night vote count:
Forgotten One (3): Wessel, Iso, pikachugundam
Iso (2): Forgotten One, Tom
Tom (2): EtR, Rhand
pikachugundam (1): infectiousbaloth
Not voting: Lord_McDonalds, AtheistGod, Misting, Prophylaxis
"Winter break? WINTER BREAK?"
"Yes, Archchancellor."
"These blithering fools haven't been listening, have they? Someone wants me bloody dead!"
"Yes, Archchancellor."
"Now, grab the bow and arrows. We're going rabbit hunting!"
Vote count:
Forgotten One (4): Misting, Tom, Wessel, Iso
Misting (1): Forgotten One
AtheistGod (1): Ellemenno P
Not voting (6): Lord_McDonalds, EtR, dazbog_eaterofsouls, pikachugundam, Rhand, AtheistGod
The following players have been prodded:
Lord_McDonalds (last post 12/23)
AtheistGod (last post 12/27)
dazbog_eaterofsouls (no posts)
Misting (last post 12/24)
Forgotten One (last post 12/24)
Hopefully the bolded parts of the above quotes will fill in the blanks for you.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Because I also think Tom is scum and I was fine with the direction of the game going either way - at the time, it looked like Tom's wagon was going to garner more support that FO's.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Just to thwart all this nonsense, I'm just going to claim. I'm Dr. Hicks, Professor of Post-Mortem Communications. I'm in essence Vanilla town, except that I can hand out a leaflet about my latest theatrical production to any player that has no effect. This is why I think Tom's claim is 100% true, although I totally disagree with any of the reasons that he was being run up in the first place.
FO dropped this a few pages back. It has been completely ignored and I'm wondering what people's thoughts on this are.
Just to thwart all this nonsense, I'm just going to claim. I'm Dr. Hicks, Professor of Post-Mortem Communications. I'm in essence Vanilla town, except that I can hand out a leaflet about my latest theatrical production to any player that has no effect. This is why I think Tom's claim is 100% true, although I totally disagree with any of the reasons that he was being run up in the first place.
FO dropped this a few pages back. It has been completely ignored and I'm wondering what people's thoughts on this are.
He shouldn't have done this, but I think he is truthful.
@proph: I seem to be pinging a lot of scumdars because I read too much into things. Is it that, or do you see other reasons to suspect me?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Tom - Not much to say that hasn't been said already, I really don't feel confidant calling him scum, but I've little reason to think he's town
iso - he's been active, scum hunts, that said, he and tom seem like the most able to pull of being town while scum. Unlike Tom, I don't feel confidant calling him town, but I don't think he's scum.
Hi there!
Relevant parts bolded.
You got some 'splainin' to do
Just that, I don't feel confidant calling either town/scum because, even though there is evidence suggesting either way (there have been dozens of posts about both, honestly), I'm not sure if I buy that, at the same time, I don't really have any argument to the contrary making me think otherwise.
Probably not the best reason, but yeah that was my exact thought process at the time.
Work got in the way of a reread, so am still working on that.
As for my response to your question, I apologize for being snarky, I'm just really frustrated with this game right now. I've also clearly stated like twice that I have no clear read on Iso at this time.
Apology accepted.
What changed between this post and your T/S list?
Tom - I noticed that you replied to other posts but not this one.
Just to thwart all this nonsense, I'm just going to claim. I'm Dr. Hicks, Professor of Post-Mortem Communications. I'm in essence Vanilla town, except that I can hand out a leaflet about my latest theatrical production to any player that has no effect. This is why I think Tom's claim is 100% true, although I totally disagree with any of the reasons that he was being run up in the first place.
Next, I'm going to Unvote. I actually believe that Misting's actions and mischaracterizations just stem from him misunderstanding my responses rather than a malicious misrep.
Next, I'm going to Vote: Iso. He pushed a wagon against Tom by basically berating him for pretty much no reason and I totally get why Tom was frustrated with both Wessel and Iso; they don't listen and they misconstrue things in the worst possible way. Anyway, Iso also voted me with a "Well they both can't be Town" remark, which to me I read as an attempt at a Mafia 2 for 1 (encourage 2 Twonies arguing with each other, lynch one and when he turns up Town you can lynch the other).
Don't let Iso's volume of posts fool you. Don't let Wessel's proclamation that this is "Townie-Iso" fool you. Those two are scum.
I remembered seeing this and not thinking much of it at the time, but then AG brought it back up, looking for opinions.
I also just read Iso's post where he mentioned that he thinks FO and Tom are both scum.
I don't like that FO is attempting to clear Tom based in part on Mod/Flavor gaming. I also don't like that it was done by FO claiming early. Even if both are town, they have now significantly narrowed down the process of elimination for the scum on who PR's might be....So, thanks for that?
I also feel like this flavor tidbit could easily be something that is in all the Vanilla role PM's. This could just as easily be a Vanilla Mafia Goon trait then it is a Vanilla Town trait. And maybe it's not even limited to Vanilla roles. No matter how you slice it, the fact that it's in a PM doesn't add any evidence to someone being any particular alignment.
Just to thwart all this nonsense, I'm just going to claim. I'm Dr. Hicks, Professor of Post-Mortem Communications. I'm in essence Vanilla town, except that I can hand out a leaflet about my latest theatrical production to any player that has no effect. This is why I think Tom's claim is 100% true, although I totally disagree with any of the reasons that he was being run up in the first place.
Next, I'm going to Unvote. I actually believe that Misting's actions and mischaracterizations just stem from him misunderstanding my responses rather than a malicious misrep.
Next, I'm going to Vote: Iso. He pushed a wagon against Tom by basically berating him for pretty much no reason and I totally get why Tom was frustrated with both Wessel and Iso; they don't listen and they misconstrue things in the worst possible way. Anyway, Iso also voted me with a "Well they both can't be Town" remark, which to me I read as an attempt at a Mafia 2 for 1 (encourage 2 Twonies arguing with each other, lynch one and when he turns up Town you can lynch the other).
Don't let Iso's volume of posts fool you. Don't let Wessel's proclamation that this is "Townie-Iso" fool you. Those two are scum.
I remembered seeing this and not thinking much of it at the time, but then AG brought it back up, looking for opinions.
I also just read Iso's post where he mentioned that he thinks FO and Tom are both scum.
I don't like that FO is attempting to clear Tom based in part on Mod/Flavor gaming. I also don't like that it was done by FO claiming early. Even if both are town, they have now significantly narrowed down the process of elimination for the scum on who PR's might be....So, thanks for that?
I also feel like this flavor tidbit could easily be something that is in all the Vanilla role PM's. This could just as easily be a Vanilla Mafia Goon trait then it is a Vanilla Town trait. And maybe it's not even limited to Vanilla roles. No matter how you slice it, the fact that it's in a PM doesn't add any evidence to someone being any particular alignment.
I think that FO is telling the truth and believes it clears Tom because his own role PM has that flavor thing. That's naïve thinking and using his own claim to clear Tom was a very bad move. But I don't think it comes from a scum mindset.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I can see the merit in that when a scumbuddy has a good chance of getting lynched, but isn't that a bad day 1 tactic when there's another good wagon to ride on?
He draws attention to McDo while all eyes are looking elsewhere.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Hm, I wanted to ask if you have experiences with scum Tom, but i don't want to drown in Metagaming.
I'll just keep my mind open for the possibility that he's setting McDo up for a bus.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Tom - Not much to say that hasn't been said already, I really don't feel confidant calling him scum, but I've little reason to think he's town
iso - he's been active, scum hunts, that said, he and tom seem like the most able to pull of being town while scum. Unlike Tom, I don't feel confidant calling him town, but I don't think he's scum.
Hi there!
Relevant parts bolded.
You got some 'splainin' to do
Just that, I don't feel confidant calling either town/scum because, even though there is evidence suggesting either way (there have been dozens of posts about both, honestly), I'm not sure if I buy that, at the same time, I don't really have any argument to the contrary making me think otherwise.
Probably not the best reason, but yeah that was my exact thought process at the time.
Work got in the way of a reread, so am still working on that.
You seem to misunderstand what I was addressing.
In your analysis on me, you say you have little reason to think I'm town. Implying you are neutral on me (you say that you don't feel confident calling me scum either).
In your analysis on Iso, you say that unlike Tom, you don't feel confidant calling Iso town. So that implies you DO feel confidant calling me town. However you just got done saying you were neutral on me.
As for my response to your question, I apologize for being snarky, I'm just really frustrated with this game right now. I've also clearly stated like twice that I have no clear read on Iso at this time.
Apology accepted.
What changed between this post and your T/S list?
I originally felt neutral on Iso because while I didn't like him for his recent play, I did like his early game play. However, when I thought about it more and re-read, I simply couldn't see him as town, regardless of his early game play.
@Tom: Why would a scum not look up the flavor of the game? Or are you reffering to somthing else in your last post?
He wasn't just looking up the flavor of them game, he was looking up to see whether the scum could have roles that were clearly evil or not. I'd think he'd already know that if he were scum.
Yes, Eron is. And what you said is basically what he said about LMNOP. I don't buy for a second that you're not aware of that.
Ok then, don't buy it. (but it's true ;))
What exactly is the case on me? The votes on me right now are for various minor things that I pretty much do every game I'm in. Wessel's PBPA didn't make much of a case either from what I could tell.
I'm certainly not a fan of Rhand's little hop on the bandwagon there.
Deflection to Rhand. Handwaving away the case on him.
What exactly is the case on me? The votes on me right now are for various minor things that I pretty much do every game I'm in. Wessel's PBPA didn't make much of a case either from what I could tell.
I'm certainly not a fan of Rhand's little hop on the bandwagon there.
I am voting you because of your constant very weak reasonings.
You voted FO because of ":thumbsdown:" and then unvoted again, both times not bothering to give a reasoning.
When asked about it, you still give no reasoning.
Apparently you needed the pressure of a vote to finally come up with a motivation.
That's how I like to play.
Anyway, I believe I answered your question, so what is your reasoning for voting me currently?
I didn't /suddenly/ think you were scum. But again, keep attempting to discredit me. See how far it gets you. If you don't know what ad hominem is, I suggest you look it up if you continue to play Mafia. My w/l record as town has nothing to do with the accuracy of my reads over all. Don't pretend you don't know how I play - we were both in MM4 and OFWGKTA.
What I remember from those games and the little bit in KOTH is not what I see this game. As for the accuracy of your reads: I don't know what you are trying to show, but face it, there are times you are wrong. MM4 was one of those times. This is one of those times.
In any case, I've responded in full to Wessel's sad little interpretation of me. I'm now waiting for you to proceed to relieve yourself on my posts and/or build some sort of a case on me. I look forward to responding to it.
Examples? I wasn't trying to pressure you, and the only thing I see that looks like casting your posts in a negative standing was when I brought up the suspicion of your over-defensiveness. I don't see how bringing that up is indicative of me being scum.
WHAT DO YOU MEAN "EXAMPLES"? HOW MANY OF YOUR POSTS AM I GOING TO HAVE TO QUOTE BEFORE YOU QUIT PLAYING DUMB?
I don't see the point of a mass claim rights now. What sort of discussion are you hoping to gain by it, Iso?
Any, given that at the time, no one was doing anything worth mention. However, I think we're starting to get somewhere.
Unvote, Vote Misting
This stood out to me when I read it.
"given that at the time, no one was doing anything worth mention." This feels really out of place. We were in RVS, a point in the game where people almost never do anything worth mentioning, but this reads like Iso was expecting the opposite.
Clearly it shows that Iso was trying to rush RVS to a closing point, and I didn't know what to think about that. I've never seen RVS as a bad thing. That's the reasoning behind the questions I asked him about RVS; I was trying to understand his motives and I was also seeing if I could catch him in a contradiction.
His answers were satisfying, but what I don't like is his being overly defensive (125, 127).
All of this reads to me like you think I'm scum and that you're trying to make other people believe that - except, when my wagon didn't take off, you moved your vote elsewhere.
Quote 1 translates into: I'm now voting you because I want a better answer.
Quote 2 translates into: This is why your answer was weak (because you had asked).
Quote 3 translates into: This quote stood out to me because it seemed like Iso was rushing RVS, which I didn't know what to think about. However his answers were good.
---
How is any of that me thinking you are scum? The only part that reads as me having any suspicion of you is the last sentence of the third quote, but I wouldn't call my suspension scummy as you really were being over-defensive. I wasn't ready to declare you as scum for that, though.
Quote from Tom »
I already said why I was voting you. First was for RVS. Second was because you gave a weak answer and I wanted a better one. When you did give a better one, I didn't unvote immediately because your reactions were interesting.
So you were just "observing out loud"?
I don't know what you are asking or how to answer it.
Quote from Tom »
Quote from Tom »
You say "it was all downhill from there." Please bring up some specific things "from there" that you think I'm scum for.
HAVE YOU BEEN READING MY POSTS?!?
Yup. And up until you presented why you thought I was scum in my last post all I've seen was you mudslinging BS at me. So, please create a to-the-point list of specific things I've done that make me scum in your opinion (since we started going back and forth).
I absolutely hate repeating myself and you've already made me do it so much. Read. My. Posts.
I've read your posts because I've responded to all of them.
If you aren't going to extract the specific things, then... well, good luck with your case on me.
And that's another reason why I think you're scum - because we're over 300 posts in the game, long past RVS, and you have no scum reads.
Ok.
Quote from Tom »
Not much has even happened this game. There has been my long interactions with you, which doesn't help me get many reads, and then there has been misting vs FO, both of which I believe to be town (though I feel stronger about misting).
Then why aren't you doing anything else
You are on my ass constantly and I have no way of making the other half of the players in this game post content.
Well, sure, if I were scum, I absolutely could have done that intentionally if I didn't think you would notice. But this can only devolve into "yes it was" "no it wasn't", it's a point that we're both going to have to concede.
Yes, I know. You already devolved it into that. I was originally just pointing out the possibility.
Then, in the unlikely scenario that you are town, please do something useful.
I'll do my best once the other half of players in this game actually do some stuff.
@Tom: Remember the list of really vague answers I mentioned that I said you gave me? You could start there.
Please just link me to the specific answers I gave that you don't like. It makes a heck of a lot more sense for you to do that than me to re-read the thread yet again and have to guess at which answers you don't like.
Back from GP: AC. Not the result I wanted. In any case, I see no reason why a vanilla town claim would stop anything and see no reason for Tom to still be alive. I'll case PG tomorrow, and can happily provide a case on Tom if someone needs it.
Hoho, Iso is obvtown? I'd like to see where you are getting that from.
Iso is town when he's happy-go-lucky in his posting and is pro-town in his questioning. scumIso attacks people for BS reasons
Unvote, vote: Iso
I'm fed up with Iso this game. He has continued to push the wagon on me beyond all logic. When I've asked where all the points on me are (that he claims exist) he refuses to find them and says "go find them yourself. read my posts." I've done that, and still can't find them. Neither can several other players this game.
I've acknowledged a couple of recent things he's pointed out, but I've also proved them wrong. Except for the fact that I don't have any scum reads, which is, to my knowledge, the only case left against me (and needless to say, not a very good one).
and he isn't doing that now. All in all, Iso is obvtown.
Maybe you then could find the good reasons Iso brings up against me (that I haven't proved wrong). I sure as hell can't.
Just to thwart all this nonsense, I'm just going to claim. I'm Dr. Hicks, Professor of Post-Mortem Communications. I'm in essence Vanilla town, except that I can hand out a leaflet about my latest theatrical production to any player that has no effect. This is why I think Tom's claim is 100% true, although I totally disagree with any of the reasons that he was being run up in the first place.
Next, I'm going to Unvote. I actually believe that Misting's actions and mischaracterizations just stem from him misunderstanding my responses rather than a malicious misrep.
Next, I'm going to Vote: Iso. He pushed a wagon against Tom by basically berating him for pretty much no reason and I totally get why Tom was frustrated with both Wessel and Iso; they don't listen and they misconstrue things in the worst possible way. Anyway, Iso also voted me with a "Well they both can't be Town" remark, which to me I read as an attempt at a Mafia 2 for 1 (encourage 2 Twonies arguing with each other, lynch one and when he turns up Town you can lynch the other).
Don't let Iso's volume of posts fool you. Don't let Wessel's proclamation that this is "Townie-Iso" fool you. Those two are scum.
Yay even more people with sense in them! I temporarily thought that race of people were gone from this Earth
I don't see Wessel as scum, but I think I agree about Iso. I have been unwilling to vote him until now because his early game play felt really townish to me, but after all this BS I'm having a hard time believing that he's town.
---
With the recent goings-on, I can now offer a T/S list:
Iso
Rhand
IB
EtR
PG
LMNOP (who is getting replaced)
LordMD (who isn't playing)
AG
Wessel
Misting
Forgotten One
Tom
This one is great. Contrary to his recent belief that FO is scummy, FO is now his strongest town read seemingly because if FO were scum, he wouldn't have looked at the wiki. Additionally, Iso and myself, two of his biggest detractors are two of his strongest scum reads. I don't understand how this guy is still alive.
I left out the entirety of the Iso/Tom exchange as well as his interactions with EtR and Wessel.
@Iso: Are there similarities in Tom's play this game and his scum game?
I don't remember, I was pretty aggravated throughout that whole game so I've pretty much blocked most of it out of my memory. You're welcome to check for yourself, though.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
(I've given up on learning how to use multiquote :stupid:)
@Tom, that was a grammatical error on my part, basically, I have similar thoughts towards you/iso, the difference is iso leans town to me and you lean scum, trying to put that as simply as possible.
@Rhand, if that were the case, why wouldn't he have started doing that a week+ ago when I wasn't posting/paying attention?
I went from being quite sure you were not both scum to keeping an open mind to the possibility, but I'm not convinced that it was a bus setup. I still think it's more probable that Tom is scum and you are not.
You answered your own question tho: if setting up a bus is really what he is doing, then he didn't start it earlier because you weren't posting.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
As for my response to your question, I apologize for being snarky, I'm just really frustrated with this game right now. I've also clearly stated like twice that I have no clear read on Iso at this time.
Apology accepted.
What changed between this post and your T/S list?
Tom - I noticed that you replied to other posts but not this one.
Just to thwart all this nonsense, I'm just going to claim. I'm Dr. Hicks, Professor of Post-Mortem Communications. I'm in essence Vanilla town, except that I can hand out a leaflet about my latest theatrical production to any player that has no effect. This is why I think Tom's claim is 100% true, although I totally disagree with any of the reasons that he was being run up in the first place.
Next, I'm going to Unvote. I actually believe that Misting's actions and mischaracterizations just stem from him misunderstanding my responses rather than a malicious misrep.
Next, I'm going to Vote: Iso. He pushed a wagon against Tom by basically berating him for pretty much no reason and I totally get why Tom was frustrated with both Wessel and Iso; they don't listen and they misconstrue things in the worst possible way. Anyway, Iso also voted me with a "Well they both can't be Town" remark, which to me I read as an attempt at a Mafia 2 for 1 (encourage 2 Twonies arguing with each other, lynch one and when he turns up Town you can lynch the other).
Don't let Iso's volume of posts fool you. Don't let Wessel's proclamation that this is "Townie-Iso" fool you. Those two are scum.
I remembered seeing this and not thinking much of it at the time, but then AG brought it back up, looking for opinions.
I also just read Iso's post where he mentioned that he thinks FO and Tom are both scum.
I don't like that FO is attempting to clear Tom based in part on Mod/Flavor gaming. I also don't like that it was done by FO claiming early. Even if both are town, they have now significantly narrowed down the process of elimination for the scum on who PR's might be....So, thanks for that?
I also feel like this flavor tidbit could easily be something that is in all the Vanilla role PM's. This could just as easily be a Vanilla Mafia Goon trait then it is a Vanilla Town trait. And maybe it's not even limited to Vanilla roles. No matter how you slice it, the fact that it's in a PM doesn't add any evidence to someone being any particular alignment.
I claimed because I was already still at 3 votes with almost everyone who was posting chiming in that I was "probably scum", so I figured that I wouldn't wait till I got to L-2 to claim.
I agree that its not a definite that he is Town, but the similarities of the roles make me believe that his role has more truth in it than not. For me, its the combination of role claim and his play that makes me think Tom is Town (of which apparently, I'm the only one)
Busing 101: Scum can attack other scum. Good scum DO attack other scum.
I wholeheartedly, 110%, 200-proof positive approve of this message. If you are doing post analysis and you aren't taking this into consideration, you are doing it wrong.
I went from being quite sure you were not both scum to keeping an open mind to the possibility, but I'm not convinced that it was a bus setup. I still think it's more probable that Tom is scum and you are not.
You answered your own question tho: if setting up a bus is really what he is doing, then he didn't start it earlier because you weren't posting.
I'm curious to know why you think Tom is scum and Iso is not.
I'd vote Iso over that custard, but I don't like custard...
PG, what is this. Your first line shows you unvoting because RVS is over. Your second line says that if you liked custard you would be voting for Iso, which I would call a RVS vote.
Hypocrisy toward PG for the custard thing, which TOM IS ALREADY VOTING ISO OVER. Then for Iso's "weak answer", tom puts an awful real vote on Iso.
I was voting Iso for the custard during RVS, PG was considering doing it outside of RVS.
Why is a vote used to get someone to post a better answer a bad vote?
I'm sorry about your conditions, but I'm not sure why you are bringing them up. You didn't have to rush to give me an answer you weren't sure about; I would much rather you give me a solid answer when you get a chance, even if it takes a while for you to get to a position where you can do that.
Also, I never called you scum.
Never called you scum, does not compute with voting you for a weak answer.
I've already addressed this, please try to keep up.
I don't see why it wouldn't compute. I voted him to make it clear his answer was bad and that I wanted a better one. That doesn't mean I thought he was scum.
Are you going to answer my question? What do you think of Misting's role fishing?
I don't see it as scummy.
1) It's a weak scheme. I doubt too much role information would ever come to the scum by doing such a thing, and randomly suggesting that someone is a cop is almost obviously going to result in a lot of attention directed at the suggester. I can't see the mafia wanting that much attention for very little if any gain.
2) Misting's post is joey's post in Basic 66. I think that shows effort put into a town gambit, rather than an excuse that mafia can lean on.
3) Misting isn't playing at all like he did in KOTH, so based on meta (and the above) I have him leaning town.
I missed you saying that you were sick.
@Tom: can you confirm that you know about the midnight working?
How did you miss him saying that he was sick when you quoted and referred to him saying that he had bronchitis?
I did not know about the midnight working, but that is most likely because I don't remember such details in past games. I don't think he is lying, but if you really want me to I'll try to scan though MM4 to find where he said it.
@Tom: I don't see you ask me any defined questions in your last post. Or if you did, you didn't signify it with a question mark. But my second line was one last RVS jibe. And aren't you still in RVS if you're licking custard off the floor? Like I said... I'm not the one licking custard off the floor...
RVS is random voting stage. Just because I've been making jokes about custard doesn't mean I'm in RVS; you suggesting that you might vote him for the custard alone does, though.
If you're voting Iso for custard, and you give PG crap about custard, and make custard jokes, you're attempting to prolong the dead RVS.
I wasn't voting Iso for custard anymore at that point. I think you may need to review this post.
How is making little jokes alongside real content prolonging RVS? I can't have a little fun outside of RVS?
In short, Tom's been doing not pro-town activity, and the few times he's been trying to seem to be 'scumhunting' were, frankly, too weak for words. It seems more like he was trying to paint especially Iso as scum.
Who has been doing pro-town activity and scumhunting? Nothing much has happened this game from what I can tell. So far I saw Iso's RVS comment as strange and questioned him on it, and right now there are a couple players giving me scum vibes, but outside of that I have not seen much worth commenting on. That said, I'll try to make time to reread the game in the next couple days to see if I've missed something.
And back! Again sorry for being away, right now my suspects are pretty much FO, Tom and PG.
Also: Unvote AtheistGod because that was just RVS
Still no content coming from you. Pretty much echoing the same suspects as others have been.
Vote: LMNOP
Please explain those people are your suspects.
Deflection in part 1, backpedaling on FO, votes LMNOP after several people express suspicions of him. No thank you, Tom.
Where is the deflection? The 'backpedaling' has been addressed in great detail. How does voting LMNOP after several people express suspicion of him make me scum?
@Tom: Why would a scum not look up the flavor of the game? Or are you reffering to somthing else in your last post?
He wasn't just looking up the flavor of them game, he was looking up to see whether the scum could have roles that were clearly evil or not. I'd think he'd already know that if he were scum.
Yes, Eron is. And what you said is basically what he said about LMNOP. I don't buy for a second that you're not aware of that.
Ok then, don't buy it. (but it's true ;))
What exactly is the case on me? The votes on me right now are for various minor things that I pretty much do every game I'm in. Wessel's PBPA didn't make much of a case either from what I could tell.
I'm certainly not a fan of Rhand's little hop on the bandwagon there.
Deflection to Rhand. Handwaving away the case on him.
Tell me, IB, how do you expect one to scumhunt and try to show they are town without 'deflecting' the case on them?
And of course I had to 'handwave' Iso's comment, there's no way I can prove him wrong on the fact that he doesn't believe what I'm saying. Unless you want to turn the conversation into a bundle of WIFOM.
What exactly is the case on me? The votes on me right now are for various minor things that I pretty much do every game I'm in. Wessel's PBPA didn't make much of a case either from what I could tell.
I'm certainly not a fan of Rhand's little hop on the bandwagon there.
I am voting you because of your constant very weak reasonings.
You voted FO because of ":thumbsdown:" and then unvoted again, both times not bothering to give a reasoning.
When asked about it, you still give no reasoning.
Apparently you needed the pressure of a vote to finally come up with a motivation.
That's how I like to play.
Anyway, I believe I answered your question, so what is your reasoning for voting me currently?
I didn't /suddenly/ think you were scum. But again, keep attempting to discredit me. See how far it gets you. If you don't know what ad hominem is, I suggest you look it up if you continue to play Mafia. My w/l record as town has nothing to do with the accuracy of my reads over all. Don't pretend you don't know how I play - we were both in MM4 and OFWGKTA.
What I remember from those games and the little bit in KOTH is not what I see this game. As for the accuracy of your reads: I don't know what you are trying to show, but face it, there are times you are wrong. MM4 was one of those times. This is one of those times.
In any case, I've responded in full to Wessel's sad little interpretation of me. I'm now waiting for you to proceed to relieve yourself on my posts and/or build some sort of a case on me. I look forward to responding to it.
Mudslinging and ad hom do not a defense make.
What am I defending myself against here? Nothing. So far the only stuff that came up against me was Wessel's PBPA, which I had already responded to in full and defended myself against.
Examples? I wasn't trying to pressure you, and the only thing I see that looks like casting your posts in a negative standing was when I brought up the suspicion of your over-defensiveness. I don't see how bringing that up is indicative of me being scum.
WHAT DO YOU MEAN "EXAMPLES"? HOW MANY OF YOUR POSTS AM I GOING TO HAVE TO QUOTE BEFORE YOU QUIT PLAYING DUMB?
I don't see the point of a mass claim rights now. What sort of discussion are you hoping to gain by it, Iso?
Any, given that at the time, no one was doing anything worth mention. However, I think we're starting to get somewhere.
Unvote, Vote Misting
This stood out to me when I read it.
"given that at the time, no one was doing anything worth mention." This feels really out of place. We were in RVS, a point in the game where people almost never do anything worth mentioning, but this reads like Iso was expecting the opposite.
Clearly it shows that Iso was trying to rush RVS to a closing point, and I didn't know what to think about that. I've never seen RVS as a bad thing. That's the reasoning behind the questions I asked him about RVS; I was trying to understand his motives and I was also seeing if I could catch him in a contradiction.
His answers were satisfying, but what I don't like is his being overly defensive (125, 127).
All of this reads to me like you think I'm scum and that you're trying to make other people believe that - except, when my wagon didn't take off, you moved your vote elsewhere.
Quote 1 translates into: I'm now voting you because I want a better answer.
Quote 2 translates into: This is why your answer was weak (because you had asked).
Quote 3 translates into: This quote stood out to me because it seemed like Iso was rushing RVS, which I didn't know what to think about. However his answers were good.
---
How is any of that me thinking you are scum? The only part that reads as me having any suspicion of you is the last sentence of the third quote, but I wouldn't call my suspension scummy as you really were being over-defensive. I wasn't ready to declare you as scum for that, though.
Quote from Tom »
I already said why I was voting you. First was for RVS. Second was because you gave a weak answer and I wanted a better one. When you did give a better one, I didn't unvote immediately because your reactions were interesting.
So you were just "observing out loud"?
I don't know what you are asking or how to answer it.
Quote from Tom »
Quote from Tom »
You say "it was all downhill from there." Please bring up some specific things "from there" that you think I'm scum for.
HAVE YOU BEEN READING MY POSTS?!?
Yup. And up until you presented why you thought I was scum in my last post all I've seen was you mudslinging BS at me. So, please create a to-the-point list of specific things I've done that make me scum in your opinion (since we started going back and forth).
I absolutely hate repeating myself and you've already made me do it so much. Read. My. Posts.
I've read your posts because I've responded to all of them.
If you aren't going to extract the specific things, then... well, good luck with your case on me.
And that's another reason why I think you're scum - because we're over 300 posts in the game, long past RVS, and you have no scum reads.
Ok.
Quote from Tom »
Not much has even happened this game. There has been my long interactions with you, which doesn't help me get many reads, and then there has been misting vs FO, both of which I believe to be town (though I feel stronger about misting).
Then why aren't you doing anything else
You are on my ass constantly and I have no way of making the other half of the players in this game post content.
Well, sure, if I were scum, I absolutely could have done that intentionally if I didn't think you would notice. But this can only devolve into "yes it was" "no it wasn't", it's a point that we're both going to have to concede.
Yes, I know. You already devolved it into that. I was originally just pointing out the possibility.
Then, in the unlikely scenario that you are town, please do something useful.
I'll do my best once the other half of players in this game actually do some stuff.
Deflection to the lurkers.
So I respond in full to Iso's post, make a reasonable ending comment that I need people to actually play the game in order to contribute content, and you call it "deflection to the lurkers".
Yeah, this case on me is really grasping at straws.
So... why don't we do a mass name claim or something? That was proposed earlier and I didn't hear much opposition to it.
Yet another attempt to get the attention off of himself.
The attention had been on me for the last 200 or so posts. You really think I cared anymore? No. If I did, I doubt I'd be the main advocate for you doing your PBPA on me...
The intention of that post was to get stuff happening, because nothing much was.
@Tom: Remember the list of really vague answers I mentioned that I said you gave me? You could start there.
Please just link me to the specific answers I gave that you don't like. It makes a heck of a lot more sense for you to do that than me to re-read the thread yet again and have to guess at which answers you don't like.
Back from GP: AC. Not the result I wanted. In any case, I see no reason why a vanilla town claim would stop anything and see no reason for Tom to still be alive. I'll case PG tomorrow, and can happily provide a case on Tom if someone needs it.
Hoho, Iso is obvtown? I'd like to see where you are getting that from.
Iso is town when he's happy-go-lucky in his posting and is pro-town in his questioning. scumIso attacks people for BS reasons
Unvote, vote: Iso
I'm fed up with Iso this game. He has continued to push the wagon on me beyond all logic. When I've asked where all the points on me are (that he claims exist) he refuses to find them and says "go find them yourself. read my posts." I've done that, and still can't find them. Neither can several other players this game.
I've acknowledged a couple of recent things he's pointed out, but I've also proved them wrong. Except for the fact that I don't have any scum reads, which is, to my knowledge, the only case left against me (and needless to say, not a very good one).
and he isn't doing that now. All in all, Iso is obvtown.
Maybe you then could find the good reasons Iso brings up against me (that I haven't proved wrong). I sure as hell can't.
Just to thwart all this nonsense, I'm just going to claim. I'm Dr. Hicks, Professor of Post-Mortem Communications. I'm in essence Vanilla town, except that I can hand out a leaflet about my latest theatrical production to any player that has no effect. This is why I think Tom's claim is 100% true, although I totally disagree with any of the reasons that he was being run up in the first place.
Next, I'm going to Unvote. I actually believe that Misting's actions and mischaracterizations just stem from him misunderstanding my responses rather than a malicious misrep.
Next, I'm going to Vote: Iso. He pushed a wagon against Tom by basically berating him for pretty much no reason and I totally get why Tom was frustrated with both Wessel and Iso; they don't listen and they misconstrue things in the worst possible way. Anyway, Iso also voted me with a "Well they both can't be Town" remark, which to me I read as an attempt at a Mafia 2 for 1 (encourage 2 Twonies arguing with each other, lynch one and when he turns up Town you can lynch the other).
Don't let Iso's volume of posts fool you. Don't let Wessel's proclamation that this is "Townie-Iso" fool you. Those two are scum.
Yay even more people with sense in them! I temporarily thought that race of people were gone from this Earth
I don't see Wessel as scum, but I think I agree about Iso. I have been unwilling to vote him until now because his early game play felt really townish to me, but after all this BS I'm having a hard time believing that he's town.
---
With the recent goings-on, I can now offer a T/S list:
Iso
Rhand
IB
EtR
PG
LMNOP (who is getting replaced)
LordMD (who isn't playing)
AG
Wessel
Misting
Forgotten One
Tom
This one is great. Contrary to his recent belief that FO is scummy, FO is now his strongest town read seemingly because if FO were scum, he wouldn't have looked at the wiki. Additionally, Iso and myself, two of his biggest detractors are two of his strongest scum reads.
I no longer thought FO was scum after those posts I referred to, which did include the wiki reference. I became pretty sure he was town after his claim post. And yes, the fact that you and Iso think I'm scum with virtually no sensible case doesn't lead me to thinking you are town.
I don't understand how this guy is still alive.
Oh, I don't know, maybe because every 'point' against me in every case has either been disproved or has not been indicative of scum in the first place.
I could spoiler it, but that wouldn't do much accept make it even harder to follow. I'm sure you can read through it; although it takes up a lot of room on the page the only parts truly relevant are IB's posts and my responses, the rest is just what IB is referencing.
"Ho then, chaps! Have you reached a resolution?"
"No, Archchancellor, we have not."
"Bloody hell, man! You know what they say, spit or... or... or just spit, you shapeless mass of a man."
Vote count, which has not changed:
Forgotten One (3): Wessel, Iso, pikachugundam
Iso (2): Forgotten One, Tom
Tom (2): EtR, Rhand
pikachugundam (1): infectiousbaloth
Not voting: Lord_McDonalds, AtheistGod, Misting, Prophylaxis
Misting (last post: 1/17) and Wessel (last post: 1/19) have been prodded.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
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You're giving me more and more scum vibes.
First you don't mind a mass name claim because of the wiki not telling anything.
Then when pointed out that the wiki does tell stuff, you defend your point by saying that flavorgaming shouldn't happen.
Then you change your mind about the massclaim?
So what is it, do you or do you not want a mass name claim?
I just don't see a pro-town reason for proposing (or supporting) a mass name claim.
PG wasn't in the big discussions, but you can't compare yourself to him when it comes to postcount and content. He posts quite a lot.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
After my attack of the proposal, you didn't continue to push the claim, so I didn't see the need to attack you for it.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I have no idea why Ellemenno chose to play the way he did. ???
Rhand... As I said before you are reading too much into things. I've quoted my post for cohesion. I said that I don't see how a name claim would hurt (perhaps poor word choice on my part? :shrug:); however, that does not mean that I am for a name claim. Please refrain from twisting my words to how you see fit. I stated before that I was not for a name claim because I didn't know the flavor and I'm still not for a name claim even after I've had a taste of the flavor. That has not changed. I am similarly not convinced that a name claim would actually do anything. As stated earlier as well, I don't think it is correct to say it is a scum motive to ask for a name claim either.
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Hopefully the bolded parts of the above quotes will fill in the blanks for you.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
FO dropped this a few pages back. It has been completely ignored and I'm wondering what people's thoughts on this are.
I'm around post 280 now, top suspects are Rhand, Eron, and Tom
He shouldn't have done this, but I think he is truthful.
@proph: I seem to be pinging a lot of scumdars because I read too much into things. Is it that, or do you see other reasons to suspect me?
He fixes it.
Really? Eron?
Self-conscious?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Just that, I don't feel confidant calling either town/scum because, even though there is evidence suggesting either way (there have been dozens of posts about both, honestly), I'm not sure if I buy that, at the same time, I don't really have any argument to the contrary making me think otherwise.
Probably not the best reason, but yeah that was my exact thought process at the time.
Work got in the way of a reread, so am still working on that.
Tom - I noticed that you replied to other posts but not this one.
Rewinding to this post by FO:
I remembered seeing this and not thinking much of it at the time, but then AG brought it back up, looking for opinions.
I also just read Iso's post where he mentioned that he thinks FO and Tom are both scum.
I don't like that FO is attempting to clear Tom based in part on Mod/Flavor gaming. I also don't like that it was done by FO claiming early. Even if both are town, they have now significantly narrowed down the process of elimination for the scum on who PR's might be....So, thanks for that?
I also feel like this flavor tidbit could easily be something that is in all the Vanilla role PM's. This could just as easily be a Vanilla Mafia Goon trait then it is a Vanilla Town trait. And maybe it's not even limited to Vanilla roles. No matter how you slice it, the fact that it's in a PM doesn't add any evidence to someone being any particular alignment.
..
I would love to see your thought process behind all three.
I seem to trigger scumdars on day 1 in every game I play, and I would like to know why so that I can become a better player.
I think that FO is telling the truth and believes it clears Tom because his own role PM has that flavor thing. That's naïve thinking and using his own claim to clear Tom was a very bad move. But I don't think it comes from a scum mindset.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'm not a fan of McDo's posts either, but I don't see him in a scumteam with Tom.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I would expect a scumbuddy to let that slide.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
He draws attention to McDo while all eyes are looking elsewhere.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Is setting up buses common game?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
What i want to know is if the act of setting up the bus long before the actual bus will take place is common.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'll just keep my mind open for the possibility that he's setting McDo up for a bus.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
You seem to misunderstand what I was addressing.
In your analysis on me, you say you have little reason to think I'm town. Implying you are neutral on me (you say that you don't feel confident calling me scum either).
In your analysis on Iso, you say that unlike Tom, you don't feel confidant calling Iso town. So that implies you DO feel confidant calling me town. However you just got done saying you were neutral on me.
You contradicted yourself.
I originally felt neutral on Iso because while I didn't like him for his recent play, I did like his early game play. However, when I thought about it more and re-read, I simply couldn't see him as town, regardless of his early game play.
Deflection to Rhand. Handwaving away the case on him.
Mudslinging and ad hom do not a defense make.
Deflection to the lurkers.
Yet another attempt to get the attention off of himself.
I see no reason why you wouldn't just say it if you are town.
This one is great. Contrary to his recent belief that FO is scummy, FO is now his strongest town read seemingly because if FO were scum, he wouldn't have looked at the wiki. Additionally, Iso and myself, two of his biggest detractors are two of his strongest scum reads. I don't understand how this guy is still alive.
I left out the entirety of the Iso/Tom exchange as well as his interactions with EtR and Wessel.
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I don't remember, I was pretty aggravated throughout that whole game so I've pretty much blocked most of it out of my memory. You're welcome to check for yourself, though.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Tom, that was a grammatical error on my part, basically, I have similar thoughts towards you/iso, the difference is iso leans town to me and you lean scum, trying to put that as simply as possible.
@Rhand, if that were the case, why wouldn't he have started doing that a week+ ago when I wasn't posting/paying attention?
You answered your own question tho: if setting up a bus is really what he is doing, then he didn't start it earlier because you weren't posting.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I claimed because I was already still at 3 votes with almost everyone who was posting chiming in that I was "probably scum", so I figured that I wouldn't wait till I got to L-2 to claim.
I agree that its not a definite that he is Town, but the similarities of the roles make me believe that his role has more truth in it than not. For me, its the combination of role claim and his play that makes me think Tom is Town (of which apparently, I'm the only one)
I wholeheartedly, 110%, 200-proof positive approve of this message. If you are doing post analysis and you aren't taking this into consideration, you are doing it wrong.
I'm curious to know why you think Tom is scum and Iso is not.
This is most impressive seeing that you're dead...
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Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
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I was voting Iso for the custard during RVS, PG was considering doing it outside of RVS.
Why is a vote used to get someone to post a better answer a bad vote?
I've already addressed this, please try to keep up.
I don't see why it wouldn't compute. I voted him to make it clear his answer was bad and that I wanted a better one. That doesn't mean I thought he was scum.
This has been addressed in great detail already.
I wasn't voting Iso for custard anymore at that point. I think you may need to review this post.
How is making little jokes alongside real content prolonging RVS? I can't have a little fun outside of RVS?
Where is the deflection? The 'backpedaling' has been addressed in great detail. How does voting LMNOP after several people express suspicion of him make me scum?
Tell me, IB, how do you expect one to scumhunt and try to show they are town without 'deflecting' the case on them?
And of course I had to 'handwave' Iso's comment, there's no way I can prove him wrong on the fact that he doesn't believe what I'm saying. Unless you want to turn the conversation into a bundle of WIFOM.
What am I defending myself against here? Nothing. So far the only stuff that came up against me was Wessel's PBPA, which I had already responded to in full and defended myself against.
So I respond in full to Iso's post, make a reasonable ending comment that I need people to actually play the game in order to contribute content, and you call it "deflection to the lurkers".
Yeah, this case on me is really grasping at straws.
The attention had been on me for the last 200 or so posts. You really think I cared anymore? No. If I did, I doubt I'd be the main advocate for you doing your PBPA on me...
The intention of that post was to get stuff happening, because nothing much was.
You don't have to.
I no longer thought FO was scum after those posts I referred to, which did include the wiki reference. I became pretty sure he was town after his claim post. And yes, the fact that you and Iso think I'm scum with virtually no sensible case doesn't lead me to thinking you are town.
Oh, I don't know, maybe because every 'point' against me in every case has either been disproved or has not been indicative of scum in the first place.
----
Well... that was IB's case on me. :weird:.
Please trim down your wall.
"No, Archchancellor, we have not."
"Bloody hell, man! You know what they say, spit or... or... or just spit, you shapeless mass of a man."
Vote count, which has not changed:
Forgotten One (3): Wessel, Iso, pikachugundam
Iso (2): Forgotten One, Tom
Tom (2): EtR, Rhand
pikachugundam (1): infectiousbaloth
Not voting: Lord_McDonalds, AtheistGod, Misting, Prophylaxis
Misting (last post: 1/17) and Wessel (last post: 1/19) have been prodded.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player