@AG: I had this feeling after I read my post that it didn't sound quite like how I wanted it to sound and someone was bound to be confused, but I left it as is and went to bed anyway... So let me rephrase that for you...
So because I don't make sense and after doing a reread, I found someone [to be] scumm[ier]y that I didn't see as [being as] scummy the first time through, this makes me scum?
Does that make more sense now? Writing posts at 1:30am doesn't make me the most coherent... ^^; For that I apologize. Also, FO asked about my vote on him and I explained my reasoning, so your argument that I gave no reasoning doesn't hold a lot of water. Anyway, please point out any of my real scumminess. I'd love to hear about it. AKA case plz.
OOG: Good luck at your pre-releases too, RL and Misting!
@Iso: I can't believe that you would actually advocate "no more wagons". Worrying about scum having additional info about power roles versus vanilla roles should very secondary to actually finding and lynching scum. This is especially weird considering that the person who's wagon you are stifling is PG's; someone who has said over and over that they are new to Mafia and continues to make new-player scummy posts.
I advocate pressure on PG; just not a wagon yet because we already have two claimed scum (read: you and Misting).
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I advocate pressure on PG; just not a wagon yet because we already have two claimed scum (read: you and Misting).
I assume you mean me and Tom (not Misting) since we are the only ones to have claimed so far. You are wrong about me. I'm not feeling a Tom lynch either. I don't like how you seem to want to keep pushing everyone towards just us two, especially given that we are finally getting good participation.
Quote from Infectious Baloth »
I forgot about this post (and #s 6, 148, and 232)
Are you just listing random posts I've made or is there an actual reason behind your vote?
Quote from Pikachu »
FO asked about my vote on him and I explained my reasoning, so your argument that I gave no reasoning doesn't hold a lot of water.
I didn't say you didn't give a reason. You gave a bad reason.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Oh FWIW, I'm not responding to Tom's rebuttal because I like it plenty and Misting is suddenly my favourite scumspect. I don't think FO is particularly scummy, but if he died I wouldn't have a sad.
Do you or do you not think I'm scum? If so, why just stop the case and not respond? If not, why vote someone who is defending town?
Mistake number 2... You said FO and I were obv scum, so you think we are 100% scum or something close to it. If that were so, you should think Misting has a higher chance of being town, or rather, a lower chance of him being scum. Something like 10%, in fact (by way of 1/10).
Oh and mistake number 3. You are not counting yourself as town, which would further change the percentage.
Quote from FO »
This is definitely the one scummy thing that you have done
Wait, so do you think it is or do you think it isn't? It seems like you go on to say that it's really not that scummy...
Wait, so do you think it is or do you think it isn't? It seems like you go on to say that it's really not that scummy...
On the surface, it is scummy. I think that is why you are being attacked for it. But I always take context into consideration, and the context of your vote does not make you 'obv scum' as some people point out. Everything else that you have done makes me lean town on you and your claim pushes you further into townie-ness for me. On top of that, I see all the BS that has stemmed from than one incident and how IB, Iso, Wessel, and others have railed on everything you've said since then and I don't agree with what's being said and how it's being portrayed.
I wouldn't even bother bringing it up except to point out the difference between you and PG, but it does highlight how I feel Iso is manipulating the town. Hopefully, it also returns some sense to the wagon on you so that people see how that whole mess started and more importantly who started it.
You said I didn't count myself as town. But what you failed to mention when you were twisting my post was that I also didn't include myself as scum when I gave my number. My answer was obviously meant to be coy in that I was giving the literal answer instead of how strongly I actually felt you guys are scum. But I guess scum don't care about the facts when they're pushing a bunk case like you are, right?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
You said I didn't count myself as town. But what you failed to mention when you were twisting my post was that I also didn't include myself as scum when I gave my number. My answer was obviously meant to be coy in that I was giving the literal answer instead of how strongly I actually felt you guys are scum. But I guess scum don't care about the facts when they're pushing a bunk case like you are, right?
Hahahahahaha
If you understood simple statistics, you would realize that it doesn't matter whether you count yourself as scum or not. It still changes the percentage. All that matters is that you didn't count yourself as town (I go more into detail on this below).
---
For people not voting Iso, here is why his percentage mess up was so bad:
1. Iso was asked a simple question: what was the percent chance he thought Misting was scum.
2. Iso says 8.3%. He arrived at this by doing 1/12. Already there are problems here, but they also apply to the 25% answer that comes later, so I'll address them then.
3. It was pointed out that what he said was ridiculous. He changes it to 3*8.3, or 25%, which makes more sense for what he is trying to say.
4. What is he trying to say? Well, he is trying to say that everyone in this game has a 25% (or 3/12) probability of being scum. Makes sense from a spectator's perspective.
5. But hold on a minute; if Iso was town, he wouldn't have a 25% chance of being scum would he? No... if he was town, he would have 0% chance of being scum. 3/12 was not the correct formula. If he were town, it should have been 3/11, or 3 scum out of the remaining 11 players that did not include him.
6. Hold on yet again... like Iso said, he didn't actually call himself scum, did he? If he did, the formula would have been 2/11. Well no, he didn't actually call himself scum. Solving by way of 2/11 would be just about the stupidest thing you could do as scum. However, forgetting to change 3/12 to 3/11 is a much more likely mistake on a mafia member's part. Forgetting to change 3/12 to 3/11 as town would be pretty much impossible.
7. Let's ignore that mistake for a second. How could he think Misting has a 3/12 chance of being scum, or even 3/11, if he already considered FO and I "obvscum"? If both of us are already scum, then there is only one remaining scum in the remaining 9 players. Barring other town reads and scum reads Iso had that would change the chances even further, his percentage should have been 10.1%, not 25%.
---
Facts derived from above:
Fact: Iso didn't count himself as town, something that town would not miss.
Fact: Iso doesn't really think FO or I are scum, he just wants to lynch some town.
Fact: We should lynch Iso today.
Fact: Iso didn't count himself as town, something that town would not miss.
Fact: Iso doesn't really think FO or I are scum, he just wants to lynch some town.
Fact: We should lynch Iso today.
Facts derived from above:
Fact: Tom can in fact perform basic math.
Fact: The quote function was used
joking aside, We are to lynch Iso based on the assumption that scum would count the total playerbase and not exclude himself? Is that the best reason you have that Iso is scum?
We are to lynch Iso based on the assumption that scum would count the total playerbase and not exclude himself?
You are twisting it. I'm saying town WOULD exclude themselves, which is different.
Quote from Mac Daddy Micky D »
Is that the best reason you have that Iso is scum?
Yes, in the way of hard proof. But there are other reasons, such as Iso pushing the BS wagon on me for forever, something scumIso apparently does. Meta or not, Iso is a good enough town player to have realized I'm town by now and that there is no case on me.
But there are other reasons, such as Iso pushing the BS wagon on me for forever, something scumIso apparently does. Meta or not, Iso is a good enough town player to have realized I'm town by now and that there is no case on me.
Yes, because townIso would NEVER push somebody I think is scum.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Are these remarks meant sarcastically, or are you really not reading the game IB?
Since neither of those things were in my notes and I was relatively busy, I figured it would be more efficient to ask than to trudge through the thread.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
But there are other reasons, such as Iso pushing the BS wagon on me for forever, something scumIso apparently does. Meta or not, Iso is a good enough town player to have realized I'm town by now and that there is no case on me.
Yes, because townIso would NEVER push somebody I think is scum.
YOU DON'T HAVE ANY REASON TO. I responded in full to the only two cases laid out against me. I've responded to everything you've ever brought up against me. All of my responses have proved the points wrong or shown why the points aren't indicative of scum in the first place. When asked where anything else against me is, you just blow off the question and refuse to answer. Most likely because there isn't anything.
I'm still waiting for you to prove me wrong on that. I'm still waiting for you to take 5 minutes and list your points against me that are still valid. But it's just not coming.
Also, this push on Iso because he didn't count himself as part of the town is absurd.
unvote; vote Tom
Can we lynch this guy so the game can progress, please?
IB, answer my question.
Also, I responded to your case on me and you said you "liked my response plenty" and you weren't going to respond because of that. Then you hopped around on some other people, and now you are back on me, wanting me dead? Explain please. Why do you think I'm scum?
Also, my point is in no way absurd. As town, you are looking for 3 scum out of the remaining 11 players. The chance of each other player being scum is 3/11. Using 3/12 is not a town mindset, it is a mindset that is trying to look town but isn't.
I'm pretty sure the fact that he's pushing it based on the fact that I didn't even count myself as a player in this game is absurd.
You really don't understand simple statistics, do you?
If you were town, you should have known that there were 3 scum out of the remaining 11 players. That's what we focus on as town. Everybody except us. We are confirmed town. We know that there are 3 scum out of 11 other players.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
That doesn't change the fact that there are 12 players in the game and 3 scum.
Correct. And 3/12 makes sense from a spectator's mindset. But not a townie's mindset.
Also, answer my question directed at you.
@IB: answer my questions directed at you.
---
Iso and IB are almost undoubtedly scum-buddies.
---
Where is the rest of the players in this game? Misting, AG, Wessel, Proph, Rhand, EtR... please post thoughts on stuff, in particular my point against Iso. Voting him would be nice too.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I mean, Tom, you're pushing a case based on the denominator of a fraction for a hypothetical question. Nobody put as much thought into that number as you did. Ever. Go take a Xanax or twelve and come back when you want to lynch yourself, Misting, or FO.
Sorry for my absence, I've had a few days of terrible migraines :/
Tom, the number'slip' is really not a case. You're looking too hard for something to use against Iso.
It's clear that he did not think about the numbers: first he answered 1 out of 12 is scum, and when pointed to that mistake, he went to 1 out of 4. Neither shows a mindset, only that he's not really calculating.
I'm not liking IB's posting either, but calling him and Iso 'almost undoubtedly scum-buddies' is a bit extreme.
Can you sum up the cases against Iso and IB?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
So, I've just done two big posts in other games and I need to head out to the store. I want to weigh in on this whole Iso/Tom thing.
I'm not good at math but if I was going to make a post joking about %'s like Iso did, I'd have just taken the route of 12 players in the game the likelyhood of one of them being scum is 1/12. I think that's where Iso came up with the 8.whatever% he had. I can't read what Iso did as scummy and the fact that there is a case being made around it is silly.
I do think however, that this has changed my opinion of Tom a little. He put in a lot of effort and I don't see scum doing that. I disagree with his outcome, but respect the work. At this point I'm going to Unvote Tom. I believe that the Iso / Tom battle might just be town vs. town and I'm going to go back and see what else might be available.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I think the sum of Tom's argument at this point is "Iso doesn't think I'm town".
And you don't have an argument!
Seriously, you claim that I was lying and I have been lying before that, but you can't take two minutes to show me where? That's weak.
Somebody else please ask the same exact question I asked Iso, so that he'll answer it. It's quite sad he's acting so childish that that is necessary, but
OOG: Back from the pre-release. Did okay... 2-1-1 both days. And all I got out of it was a Watery Grave, Breeding Pool and Domri Rade. I need to dump Domri ASAP...
So AG, are you gonna PBPA me, so we can actually argue about something? Or are you content with the blanket statement that all my posts are scummy and that I have to defend all my posts against some scumminess that I don't see? Or are you cooking it up as we speak and I just have to wait?
Does that make more sense now? Writing posts at 1:30am doesn't make me the most coherent... ^^; For that I apologize. Also, FO asked about my vote on him and I explained my reasoning, so your argument that I gave no reasoning doesn't hold a lot of water. Anyway, please point out any of my real scumminess. I'd love to hear about it. AKA case plz.
OOG: Good luck at your pre-releases too, RL and Misting!
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I advocate pressure on PG; just not a wagon yet because we already have two claimed scum (read: you and Misting).
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I assume you mean me and Tom (not Misting) since we are the only ones to have claimed so far. You are wrong about me. I'm not feeling a Tom lynch either. I don't like how you seem to want to keep pushing everyone towards just us two, especially given that we are finally getting good participation.
Are you just listing random posts I've made or is there an actual reason behind your vote?
I didn't say you didn't give a reason. You gave a bad reason.
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Do you or do you not think I'm scum? If so, why just stop the case and not respond? If not, why vote someone who is defending town?
Mistake number 2... You said FO and I were obv scum, so you think we are 100% scum or something close to it. If that were so, you should think Misting has a higher chance of being town, or rather, a lower chance of him being scum. Something like 10%, in fact (by way of 1/10).
Oh and mistake number 3. You are not counting yourself as town, which would further change the percentage.
Wait, so do you think it is or do you think it isn't? It seems like you go on to say that it's really not that scummy...
---
Iso, IB, and PG/rhand for scumteam.
On the surface, it is scummy. I think that is why you are being attacked for it. But I always take context into consideration, and the context of your vote does not make you 'obv scum' as some people point out. Everything else that you have done makes me lean town on you and your claim pushes you further into townie-ness for me. On top of that, I see all the BS that has stemmed from than one incident and how IB, Iso, Wessel, and others have railed on everything you've said since then and I don't agree with what's being said and how it's being portrayed.
I wouldn't even bother bringing it up except to point out the difference between you and PG, but it does highlight how I feel Iso is manipulating the town. Hopefully, it also returns some sense to the wagon on you so that people see how that whole mess started and more importantly who started it.
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
You said I didn't count myself as town. But what you failed to mention when you were twisting my post was that I also didn't include myself as scum when I gave my number. My answer was obviously meant to be coy in that I was giving the literal answer instead of how strongly I actually felt you guys are scum. But I guess scum don't care about the facts when they're pushing a bunk case like you are, right?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Are these remarks meant sarcastically, or are you really not reading the game IB?
Hello pot... meet kettle.
And where is IB to call out your mudslinging and ad hom?
Jalira, Master Polymorphist | Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder | Bosh, Iron Golem | Ezuri, Renegade Leader
Brago, King Eternal | Oona, Queen of the Fae | Wort, Boggart Auntie | Wort, the Raidmother
Captain Sisay | Rhys, the Redeemed | Trostani, Selesnya's Voice | Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight | Obzedat, Ghost Council | Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind | Vorel of the Hull Clade
Uril, the Miststalker | Prossh, Skyraider of Kher | Nicol Bolas | Progenitus
Ghave, Guru of Spores | Zedruu the Greathearted | Damia, Sage of Stone | Riku of Two Reflections
Hahahahahaha
If you understood simple statistics, you would realize that it doesn't matter whether you count yourself as scum or not. It still changes the percentage. All that matters is that you didn't count yourself as town (I go more into detail on this below).
---
For people not voting Iso, here is why his percentage mess up was so bad:
1. Iso was asked a simple question: what was the percent chance he thought Misting was scum.
2. Iso says 8.3%. He arrived at this by doing 1/12. Already there are problems here, but they also apply to the 25% answer that comes later, so I'll address them then.
3. It was pointed out that what he said was ridiculous. He changes it to 3*8.3, or 25%, which makes more sense for what he is trying to say.
4. What is he trying to say? Well, he is trying to say that everyone in this game has a 25% (or 3/12) probability of being scum. Makes sense from a spectator's perspective.
5. But hold on a minute; if Iso was town, he wouldn't have a 25% chance of being scum would he? No... if he was town, he would have 0% chance of being scum. 3/12 was not the correct formula. If he were town, it should have been 3/11, or 3 scum out of the remaining 11 players that did not include him.
6. Hold on yet again... like Iso said, he didn't actually call himself scum, did he? If he did, the formula would have been 2/11. Well no, he didn't actually call himself scum. Solving by way of 2/11 would be just about the stupidest thing you could do as scum. However, forgetting to change 3/12 to 3/11 is a much more likely mistake on a mafia member's part. Forgetting to change 3/12 to 3/11 as town would be pretty much impossible.
7. Let's ignore that mistake for a second. How could he think Misting has a 3/12 chance of being scum, or even 3/11, if he already considered FO and I "obvscum"? If both of us are already scum, then there is only one remaining scum in the remaining 9 players. Barring other town reads and scum reads Iso had that would change the chances even further, his percentage should have been 10.1%, not 25%.
---
Facts derived from above:
Fact: Iso didn't count himself as town, something that town would not miss.
Fact: Iso doesn't really think FO or I are scum, he just wants to lynch some town.
Fact: We should lynch Iso today.
Oops, I never actually phrased it as a question. But it was the following I wanted you to respond to:
Facts derived from above:
Fact: Tom can in fact perform basic math.
Fact: The quote function was used
joking aside, We are to lynch Iso based on the assumption that scum would count the total playerbase and not exclude himself? Is that the best reason you have that Iso is scum?
(also :pb:)
You are twisting it. I'm saying town WOULD exclude themselves, which is different.
Yes, in the way of hard proof. But there are other reasons, such as Iso pushing the BS wagon on me for forever, something scumIso apparently does. Meta or not, Iso is a good enough town player to have realized I'm town by now and that there is no case on me.
I don't see how my comment is hypocritical in the slightest.
-
And Tom continues to blatantly lie in post #542.
Yes, because townIso would NEVER push somebody I think is scum.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Since neither of those things were in my notes and I was relatively busy, I figured it would be more efficient to ask than to trudge through the thread.
At the Gatecrash Pre-release.
Also, this push on Iso because he didn't count himself as part of the town is absurd.
unvote; vote Tom
Can we lynch this guy so the game can progress, please?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Where is the lie? Where have I lied before, as you say I'm "continuing" to lie?
YOU DON'T HAVE ANY REASON TO. I responded in full to the only two cases laid out against me. I've responded to everything you've ever brought up against me. All of my responses have proved the points wrong or shown why the points aren't indicative of scum in the first place. When asked where anything else against me is, you just blow off the question and refuse to answer. Most likely because there isn't anything.
I'm still waiting for you to prove me wrong on that. I'm still waiting for you to take 5 minutes and list your points against me that are still valid. But it's just not coming.
IB, answer my question.
Also, I responded to your case on me and you said you "liked my response plenty" and you weren't going to respond because of that. Then you hopped around on some other people, and now you are back on me, wanting me dead? Explain please. Why do you think I'm scum?
Also, my point is in no way absurd. As town, you are looking for 3 scum out of the remaining 11 players. The chance of each other player being scum is 3/11. Using 3/12 is not a town mindset, it is a mindset that is trying to look town but isn't.
You really don't understand simple statistics, do you?
If you were town, you should have known that there were 3 scum out of the remaining 11 players. That's what we focus on as town. Everybody except us. We are confirmed town. We know that there are 3 scum out of 11 other players.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Quick, everybody lynch IB with his admittedly scum mindset.
unvote; vote IB
Tom, you're trying too hard.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Correct. And 3/12 makes sense from a spectator's mindset. But not a townie's mindset.
Also, answer my question directed at you.
@IB: answer my questions directed at you.
---
Iso and IB are almost undoubtedly scum-buddies.
---
Where is the rest of the players in this game? Misting, AG, Wessel, Proph, Rhand, EtR... please post thoughts on stuff, in particular my point against Iso. Voting him would be nice too.
And no. Interaction with you in this game has become an impossible headache.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
/barn
Tom's implosion is almost comical though.
Tom, the number'slip' is really not a case. You're looking too hard for something to use against Iso.
It's clear that he did not think about the numbers: first he answered 1 out of 12 is scum, and when pointed to that mistake, he went to 1 out of 4. Neither shows a mindset, only that he's not really calculating.
I'm not liking IB's posting either, but calling him and Iso 'almost undoubtedly scum-buddies' is a bit extreme.
Can you sum up the cases against Iso and IB?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Also, Iso didn't subtract one from the denominator.
I'm not good at math but if I was going to make a post joking about %'s like Iso did, I'd have just taken the route of 12 players in the game the likelyhood of one of them being scum is 1/12. I think that's where Iso came up with the 8.whatever% he had. I can't read what Iso did as scummy and the fact that there is a case being made around it is silly.
I do think however, that this has changed my opinion of Tom a little. He put in a lot of effort and I don't see scum doing that. I disagree with his outcome, but respect the work. At this point I'm going to Unvote Tom. I believe that the Iso / Tom battle might just be town vs. town and I'm going to go back and see what else might be available.
Right, can't forget Tom's most cohesive point against me.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
That's alright, that's what makes us scumbuddies; I remembered the second point to the argument against you or something.
And I'm sure Tom will completely opt to miss the sarcasm in this post and take that as a confession.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Tom is the Glenn Beck of MTGS Mafia.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Why did you want to know if I was at work?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
And you don't have an argument!
Seriously, you claim that I was lying and I have been lying before that, but you can't take two minutes to show me where? That's weak.
Somebody else please ask the same exact question I asked Iso, so that he'll answer it. It's quite sad he's acting so childish that that is necessary, but
--
Answer my questions IB. They are perfectly reasonable.
What makes you think Iso is town? He's done nothing this game but spam / claim there are nonexistent points against me.
What did you mean by referencing Triskelion mafia?
So AG, are you gonna PBPA me, so we can actually argue about something? Or are you content with the blanket statement that all my posts are scummy and that I have to defend all my posts against some scumminess that I don't see? Or are you cooking it up as we speak and I just have to wait?
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Erm, I finished reading the thread and will give my updated scumlist this afternoon.