Because I didn't game the set-up in NGE or WoW or CCMV (two of which you Modded BTW) or every other town game I've ever played here? Set-up gaming is what I do as town and you know it.
Self-meta is an even worse defence than normal meta is as an attack. It's WIFOM as hell, and doesn't make you look good at all.Tunnel, tunnel. Vote Artifice 101You're sounding awfully desperate here. Why exactly does AsianInvasion need to be lynched so badly?
Your certainty here is making me rethink all my suspicions of him.[/QUOTE]I only sound "desperate" because you say so.
Also, AI needs to be lynched because he's scum. I've already said why. Why are you not reading my posts and attempting to chainsaw me? Because I'm drawing attention and therefore potential lynch momentum?
Your previous attack on me was noted and dismissed. Now I believe you scum as well for two bad attacks (this one accompanying a vote). Opportunistic vote is opportunistic.
My meta was mentioned, incorrectly. Look it up yourself. Oh wait, you were in some of those games. You know AI's statement was pure bull. Why haven't you called him out on it. Oh, that's right... he was defending you earlier.
I also hate Art's attempt to game a setup in which steps have been taken to prevent setup gaming.
Why don't you want the town to think about how many scum are in the game? That's the only reason to dislike my "gaming the set up". The reactions have been worth reading.
I'm wondering why some people haven't answered the question....
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Clan Is Dead.... Long Live The Izzet! Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
I only sound "desperate" because you (Wrath) say so.
EDIT: Why do you keep trying soooo hard to "catch" me? You keep acting like there's been some grea, grand AH-HA! moment, when there hasn't.
Also, AI needs to be lynched because he's scum. I've already said why. Why are you not reading my posts and attempting to chainsaw me? Because I'm drawing attention and therefore potential lynch momentum?
Your previous attack on me was noted and dismissed. Now I believe you scum as well for two bad attacks (this one accompanying a vote). Opportunistic vote is opportunistic.
=====
The rest of the post is cool.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Clan Is Dead.... Long Live The Izzet! Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Why don't you want the town to think about how many scum are in the game? That's the only reason to dislike my "gaming the set up". The reactions have been worth reading.
I'm wondering why some people haven't answered the question....
I haven't spoken to it because I have no idea how many scum are in the game, and I'm wholly unsure as to why it has any bearing on what's currently happening.
I know the idea is to "get people talking", but on the other hand, it also looks like you're trying to get people to stop paying attention to the current cases. That's my guess as to why it gets a negative reaction, and I agree with that point all the way.
It also makes me think you could be going for easy info that ties into something in your role. Again, it doesn't look particularly good to me.
I haven't spoken to it because I have no idea how many scum are in the game, and I'm wholly unsure as to why it has any bearing on what's currently happening.
I know the idea is to "get people talking", but on the other hand, it also looks like you're trying to get people to stop paying attention to the current cases. That's my guess as to why it gets a negative reaction, and I agree with that point all the way.
It also makes me think you could be going for easy info that ties into something in your role. Again, it doesn't look particularly good to me.
--->DJ
Easy info about what? Please define what role you think would gain from knowing how many scum are in the game other than any townie.
I made my request clear. This game is of a size we don't "Normally" see. Has there ever been a 21 player Specialty? I'd like to speculate as to the nature of the game because it helps the town win.
If you think I'm "distracting" from a lynch, who's lynch is so pending that I'm trying to distract from it? This series of reasons is just terrible.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Clan Is Dead.... Long Live The Izzet! Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Because I didn't game the set-up in NGE or WoW or CCMV (two of which you Modded BTW) or every other town game I've ever played here? Set-up gaming is what I do as town and you know it.
I hate Art's selfmeta defense.
I also hate Art's attempt to game a setup in which steps have been taken to prevent setup gaming.
Damnit guys, AsianI is scum. The fact that he's trying to turn you on to the idea of me as scum based on a recently completed scum game is turning into my new favorite scum tell. I just need to get the players commiting it lynched to prove my theory.
I have been trying to get players to read and think for themselves, if you're paying attention. I don't care if people agree with me in the short term as long as we lynch correctly in the long term. Thinking -> Winning.
I made my request clear. This game is of a size we don't "Normally" see. Has there ever been a 21 player Specialty? I'd like to speculate as to the nature of the game because it helps the town win.
I'd like you to demonstrate how modgaming a game advertised as unmodgameable helps the town win.
Archmage Eternal
AsianInvasion
Wessel
DRey
iLord or Niv
Throw Yanni in there if any of my reads are wrong.
Vague reasoning for each:
Wessel and DRey are tied together pretty heavily, and so are DRey and AsianInvasion. DRey is obvscum. (For what it's worth, DRey only puts exaggerations or representations of what people say in quotations when he's scum.) AsianInvasion did everything he could to detract from Archmage Eternal's wagon, and also tied himself as buddies with Wessel. Niv did a few things that pinged my scumdar, though I don't remember specifically what (though I'm sure I could point them out if I looked back). iLord does not appear to be playing his town game. All of my top scumreads are behaving super scummily, and I'd be fine with lynching people in the order I have presented their names. Yanni is playing how he always plays, but I don't like the way in which he hopped wagons all throughout the game. (Spoilers: iLord is probably scum.)
I can say without hesitation that Brinatoo, Pale Mage, and kpaca are town, so I will be buddying up with them for the entire game. (P.S., Brinatoo is a much better scum player than he is town player.) Gonna go out on a limb and say WoD and Art are also probably town.
@WoD: Artifice always tunnels. Al. Ways.
Oh, and I've opted to completely ignore Nakamura's awful beginning play.
Incidently, until around page 20, this was the most difficulty I've ever had composing a scumlist in a game of Mafia.
@Everybody: in your next post, please mention how many scum you think are in this game. Please do this regardless of how many others have done so. Thanks.
5-6. Though I'd be interested in seeing how neutrals affect that number.
It'd be nice if Vezok actually provided some content.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
If anyone can reset the clock to 0 or move it past 0 should do so, as it would be most appreciated. Not asking you to reveal who you are or even hint that you can do this. Just asking you to do it. Thanks.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Archmage Eternal
AsianInvasion
Wessel
DRey
iLord or Niv
Throw Yanni in there if any of my reads are wrong.
Vague reasoning for each:
Wessel and DRey are tied together pretty heavily, and so are DRey and AsianInvasion. DRey is obvscum. (For what it's worth, DRey only puts exaggerations or representations of what people say in quotations when he's scum.) AsianInvasion did everything he could to detract from Archmage Eternal's wagon, and also tied himself as buddies with Wessel. Niv did a few things that pinged my scumdar, though I don't remember specifically what (though I'm sure I could point them out if I looked back). iLord does not appear to be playing his town game. All of my top scumreads are behaving super scummily, and I'd be fine with lynching people in the order I have presented their names. Yanni is playing how he always plays, but I don't like the way in which he hopped wagons all throughout the game. (Spoilers: iLord is probably scum.)
I understand you said "vague reasoning," but you'll really need to be more specific if you want your reads to have any credibility at all, something I'm sure you've heard in the past. Looking forward to "in-depth reasoning."
If anyone can reset the clock to 0 or move it past 0 should do so, as it would be most appreciated. Not asking you to reveal who you are or even hint that you can do this. Just asking you to do it. Thanks.
Right now, the only people I could possibly see as scum are AE, for skimming the thread so blatantly, or AI, for reacting so badly to my original argument. lolmeta. Neither of those are a strong enough read for a vote right now, though.
For comparison purposes, there's also Bad Claims Mafia (DRey) and 300 Mafia (Artifice). I haven't read up to this point, ftr, just pretending like I'm contributing something at this point.
You really need to stop trying to sound scummy on purpose, that's not productive as town or as scum.
When scum is scummy, they get lynched and that's bad for their health.
When town is scummy, they get lynched (worse) or they distract the town and remove the focus from the real scum (bad).
I can't believe you won the awards... Artifice is miles better than you.
Me too, I said I cannot believe Asian and Yanni to be of the same alignment. I currently believe Yanni to be more likely scum than Asian, therefore Asian would then not be scum according to that reasoning. But the fact that I see Asian more likely than Yanni to be town (or third party?) does not mean he is off my scum list. If you understand what I mean. Otherwise I'll explain it some more.
AI is good scum, he's not afraid to heavy barn, so you are wrong.
If anyone can reset the clock to 0 or move it past 0 should do so, as it would be most appreciated. Not asking you to reveal who you are or even hint that you can do this. Just asking you to do it. Thanks.
Thank you very much to claim you are a power role and your power ir related the clock positioning, do you want to claim something more sir?
---------- top3 scum
WOD: AE, Asian (or Alpha?), (Artifice?)
DRey: Brinato, Zas, kpaca
Wessel: Vezok, Yanni, Asian
@guys more names please and tell me if I made a mistake, let's move this game out of boredom into scum nightmare!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
There wasn't anything I could have said in response that wouldn't make me look worse, so it was unfair. Are we not speaking along the same wavelength?
There's little that the defendant can say in response to meta/language tells other than "you're wrong." They're not directed towards you, but rather for the sake of persuading the rest of the town.
With regards to your #475, the term "mudslinging" tends to imply some degree of malicious intent. You think I'm intentionally making you look bad, but also that I'm town?
Quote from Ced »
What made you think that ZasZ's 20 wasn't looking for reactions (it was)? What made you think that Niv's 16 was looking for reactions (it wasn't)?
Obviously, the default isn't fishing for reactions - most opinions are made solely for the sake of expressing an opinion. I didn't see any indication that Zas was doing anything more than a clever way of expressing his suspicion of DRey.
Niv's #16 had the popcorn smiley. It doesn't get much more explicit than that.
Quote from Ced »
In 85, you call ZasZ's actions re: failure to name his suspicion as "not helping the town", "concerning", "intentionally difficult", and suggested that he had a "fear of committal". Explain exactly what you mean in each of these if they do not convey suspicion.
"Concerning" means it worries me and "intentionally difficult" means exactly what it says on the lid. "Fear of committal" was the scum mindset in my dichotomy opposite from "intentionally difficult," which would be the alignment neutral mindset.
In essence, I didn't think Zas initially withholding who he was talking about was scummy in itself, but his pointed refusal to capitulate afterwards was either town being purposely troublesome or scum afraid of committing.
Quote from Ced »
The key problem with your Brinatoo point is that it assumes that, because Brinatoo is voting Gigas, he must therefore be convinced that Gigas is scum. But there's no indication of this. Look at 169. Brin calls DRey "town", ZasZ "town", DJC "town", but all he says about Gigas is that he "has a feeling". Not "Gigas is scum". The distinction is important.
The distinction is important, but the point stands. The natural default would still more likely be "Gigas is scum" than "Gigas is town," given his hunch.
Quote from Ced »
I think that Brinatoo's vote on AE was definitely justifiable given the circumstances, and you describing it as "convenient" is a very similar thing, but cast in a bad light.
I don't think what we're saying is similar at all. You're saying it's justified - I'm saying it's indicative of scum.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@AI(I like to call AsianInvasion AI and AlphaInsidious Alpha for future reference): What are your thoughts on what happened with me and Gigas? You had said you were going to keep a close eye on it.
@Iso: Your reads scare me in similarity. What do you think about Dancing Mad being sure that Drey is town with her(?) correctly identifying him? #521
I think that Dancing Mad is wrong but I'm overlooking that fact due to Naka's atrocious play in the beginning. If DRey is SOMEHOW town, I wouldn't mind looking back at Naka/DM but only after my other scum reads are exhausted from the game.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
With regards to your #475, the term "mudslinging" tends to imply some degree of malicious intent. You think I'm intentionally making you look bad, but also that I'm town?
Town can mudsling, too. Mudslinging, like WIFOM, is more indicative of bad play than scummy play; it all depends on intent (and I think yours is townish).
You're welcome. If you'd like to return the favor, I would appreciate that "in-depth reasoning" I'm hearing is all the rage these days, preferably prior to everyone forgetting you voting without providing any.
@AI(I like to call AsianInvasion AI and AlphaInsidious Alpha for future reference): What are your thoughts on what happened with me and Gigas? You had said you were going to keep a close eye on it.
The situation hasn't progressed, so there is nothing to comment on. FWIW, I'm leaning town on you currently.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Damnit guys, AsianI is scum. The fact that he's trying to turn you on to the idea of me as scum based on a recently completed scum game is turning into my new favorite scum tell. I just need to get the players commiting it lynched to prove my theory.
Can you provide me with an example of this from a completed game, please.
Hey, kid, get off my lawn.
Also, please give the 500ish post game a read before you "help".
Next post from you better be an update. Don't care if you aren't finished. Where are you and what are your thoughts. We had enough plain sight lurkery from your predecessor.
I know the idea is to "get people talking", but on the other hand, it also looks like you're trying to get people to stop paying attention to the current cases. That's my guess as to why it gets a negative reaction, and I agree with that point all the way.
Which cases do you think he's concerned about?
It also makes me think you could be going for easy info that ties into something in your role. Again, it doesn't look particularly good to me
Fishing accusation for number of scum speculation? Are you simply piling on here? If you have something specific in mind, please fill us in. The request strikes me as more useless than dangerous.
Archmage Eternal
AsianInvasion
Wessel
DRey
iLord or Niv
Throw Yanni in there if any of my reads are wrong.
Vague reasoning for each:
Wessel and DRey are tied together pretty heavily, and so are DRey and AsianInvasion. DRey is obvscum. (For what it's worth, DRey only puts exaggerations or representations of what people say in quotations when he's scum.) AsianInvasion did everything he could to detract from Archmage Eternal's wagon, and also tied himself as buddies with Wessel. Niv did a few things that pinged my scumdar, though I don't remember specifically what (though I'm sure I could point them out if I looked back). iLord does not appear to be playing his town game. All of my top scumreads are behaving super scummily, and I'd be fine with lynching people in the order I have presented their names. Yanni is playing how he always plays, but I don't like the way in which he hopped wagons all throughout the game. (Spoilers: iLord is probably scum.)
If DRey is obvscum, why is his name so far down on the list? Particularly why is he below Wessel.
I can say without hesitation that Brinatoo, Pale Mage, and kpaca are town, so I will be buddying up with them for the entire game. (P.S., Brinatoo is a much better scum player than he is town player.) Gonna go out on a limb and say WoD and Art are also probably town.
Why am I town? You can't read me for crap as I recall. How 'bout the others?
Oh, and I've opted to completely ignore Nakamura's awful beginning play.
As have I. Margin of error is too high there.
It'd be nice if Vezok actually provided some content.
Sure would. He's already ducked one question, and I'd hate to see Alpha's inquiry get ignored.
You really need to stop trying to sound scummy on purpose, that's not productive as town or as scum.
When scum is scummy, they get lynched and that's bad for their health.
When town is scummy, they get lynched (worse) or they distract the town and remove the focus from the real scum (bad).
I can't believe you won the awards... Artifice is miles better than you.
Why are you worried about what's bad for the scum's health, DRey? Surely if Iso is town he's confident he can assuage any suspicion his own actions bring, yes?
Naka has a played a lot (when you sum all his accounts :p) I was under the impression Burst was a newbie, I was fooled, I'm felt betrayed and fooled.
Oh, please tell me why you felt "betrayed".
Thank you very much to claim you are a power role and your power ir related the clock positioning, do you want to claim something more sir?
Hey, guys! Apparently the scum don't have Daytalk!
If DRey is obvscum, why is his name so far down on the list? Particularly why is he below Wessel.
That should be indication of how strongly I feel about the others. I also think that their alignments will be more telling of DRey's in the long run.
Quote from Pale Mage »
Why am I town? You can't read me for crap as I recall. How 'bout the others?
That was about 11 completed games ago. At any rate, they are town for their actions as a combination of mindset and what they have done in relation to the players I believe are scum.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
That should be indication of how strongly I feel about the others. I also think that their alignments will be more telling of DRey's in the long run.
Perhaps you and I have different definitions for "obvscum".
The problem here is you not only gave him the label, but backed it up with something specific (meta, but specific). Vaguery isn't going to get it done if you're on the level. Obviously you're implying you feel more strongly about those higher on the list. I want to know why.
That was about 11 completed games ago.
...only one of which you were fortunate enough to play with me. Plenty of people find me difficult to read. What makes you so sure? I'm rather clever as a bad guy, you know.
At any rate, they are town for their actions as a combination of mindset and what they have done in relation to the players I believe are scum.
FWIW, I'm cautiously optimistic about kpaca myself. Brinatoo will hopefully be more active which should help me out there. He's more or less kept his deadline, which is good.
Well, Wessel/Ced/DRey's back-and-forth really seemed to rub Naka & Kpaca the wrong way. Naka's part of things seemed out of character for what I became familiar with when he was still Burstinatrix.
I like AI's reaction to the iLord wagon, and don't really understand Ced's POV of kicking that off. Naka's reaction to AI's pressure in #64, 66,
DJC's #71 was probably the worst post I've read so far, considering he manages to contradict the only post of substance he's posted at that point in the game. Not saying much, considering i'm ~20% done, but it's what has stood out.
DRey has responded well to the pressure he's been under thus far.
Naka's reaction to AI's pressure in 64, 66, & 138 didn't strike me as a natural townie behavior. For a point he was somewhat eager to defend, he backed off fairly quickly. Just not how a discussion would end from him, considering how I've seen him behave in his recent basics/Starcraft. Differs from my expectations.
Leaning town on AI, DRey & iLord so far. That's about all.
Pretty sure folks of all alignments call for votes when they want them.
Artifice 101 has done this in both of his only completed scum games (300 and Ender's). This is a definite tell for him. Leaning scum on him, especially given the massive overreaction to what was essentially an unbolded FoS.
Hey, guys! Apparently the scum don't have Daytalk!
Are you calling both DRey and Iso scum here? I don't like this kind of "sarcasm," it's too easy to veil baseless accusations behind humor to subtly influence the opinions of others.
I think a top three scum & town list from everyone would be helpful at this point.
Good thing you mentioned the scum so we know you aren't one!
Someone just earned himself a reread.
So you will make a reread on me to find if I'm scummy as currently you don't believe on that, so why the vote? Wouldn't be more productive if you made your reread prior to voting?
Top 3 scum please.
Why are you worried about what's bad for the scum's health, DRey? Surely if Iso is town he's confident he can assuage any suspicion his own actions bring, yes?
I'm not, I'm worried if he's actually town, because he tends to play bad and distract the town into mislynching him. He's also full of himself and that's probably hindering his play.
I liked Burst, even traded some PM's with him (before the game started obviously). I also defended him on this game because he was such an greenhorn on StarTrek, the problem is, Naka isn't a greenhorn, his cluelessness was not real, it was just a ploy to avoid the pressure, and I hate him for fooling me.
I won't provide a list. It's way too early in the game for that to happen.
No, it's not, you won't provide a list because you aren't reading or because you are afraid to commit, neither are good reasons.
Look I know you can play well when you devote yourself to it, can you please put some effort here? please make a reread and be active here ok?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
@Asian thanks for updating the list but I would not really pollute the list with town reads atm, we have too many players and the more info we insert here the clunkier it will be to maintain it.
Player Name: Scum Reads
WoD: AE, Asian (or Alpha?), (Artifice?)
DRey: Brinato, Zas, kpaca
Wessel: Vezok, Yanni, Asian
kpaca: DRey, (Artifice 101?), (Asian?)
Asian: Dancing Mad, Yanni, kpaca
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
I don't like this kind of "sarcasm," it's too easy to veil baseless accusations behind humor to subtly influence the opinions of others.
Fret not. If you don't like that kind of sarcasm I have many other flavors. One is bound to strike your fancy. Plus, anyone paying attention to the game already knows I'm suspicious of DRey.
I think a top three scum & town list from everyone would be helpful at this point.
Why? We're getting people back into the game and one of them hasn't even caught up. I'd rather hear from folks like gan dan, Niv, Vezok, and Brinatoo without handing them a paint-by-numbers set on how to blend in their reads.
Perhaps you and I have different definitions for "obvscum".
The problem here is you not only gave him the label, but backed it up with something specific (meta, but specific). Vaguery isn't going to get it done if you're on the level. Obviously you're implying you feel more strongly about those higher on the list. I want to know why.
I'll probably get around to explaining that eventually.
Quote from Male Page »
...only one of which you were fortunate enough to play with me. Plenty of people find me difficult to read. What makes you so sure? I'm rather clever as a bad guy, you know.
Cute. But I'd like to think I've gotten better at reading people since I have completed 11 games since then.
[QUOTE=vezokpiraka;/comments/10805253]I won't provide a list. It's way too early in the game for that to happen.
So what was your reason for saying it the way you did? By saying DRey was talking to Iso as scum, you were clearly implying (overtly so) that they were buddies.
That's not how I interpreted it. Then again, I'm not scum, so of course that would be my natural response. When I read it, my first thought was, "Pale Mage noticed that DRey is calling attention to stuff regarding my ability to his scumbuddies in case they missed it, hence, they don't have daytalk." Which, IMO, gives Pale Mage town points.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
This post and this post contain defenses that feel to me like very well-reasoned, townie responses, and it's you yourself that come out looking worse in your exchanges, with your accusations of zero content, and, rather ironically, accusations of mudslinging.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
WoD, what do you think of the connections between AE, AsianInvasion, and Wessel?
I've not read enough of Wessel's overly long posts to have any opinion on the subject. Much the same with iLord, though iLord's posts are a lot more coherent and easier to read than Wessel's.
Generally I'm rather bad at making connections, especially this early in the game.
So, I'd have to say, I can see AI as scum, and I can see AE as scum, but I'm completely undecided on Wessel right now.
Would you care to highlight some of the interactions for me?
Perhaps when I'm not falling asleep in my chair. I can go back and look for some posts where they're all tied together pretty strongly maybe tomorrow night after work or sometime this weekend during work.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Easy info about what? Please define what role you think would gain from knowing how many scum are in the game other than any townie.
I made my request clear. This game is of a size we don't "Normally" see. Has there ever been a 21 player Specialty? I'd like to speculate as to the nature of the game because it helps the town win.
If you think I'm "distracting" from a lynch, who's lynch is so pending that I'm tryingto distract from it? This series of reasons is just terrible.
I don't know what role would specifically gain from this info. For a special of this size, I'm skeptical when I see something like this, though. It doesn't read like speculation to me, it raises alarms in my head.
Feel like you're distracting in general by coming in like this and trying to shake things up. I don't have a feel for specifics yet.
When there's a follow up request to zero the aeon clock, explain how I should be reading this any other way? It smells funny to me, plain and simple.
@Pale Mage:
This should answer your questions too. Please let me know if it does not.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
You really need to stop trying to sound scummy on purpose, that's not productive as town or as scum.
This I agree with. The thing is, I don't think he sounds scummy in this game. I think you're stuck in a mindset on Iso because he's said that "scummy town" is his plan in other games in the subforum.
I can't believe you won the awards... Artifice is miles better than you.
This I strongly disagree with and would kindly ask you to leave my name out of your mouth when insulting others.
You did sound desesperate you know? Please maintain your focus, giving in to your instincts and OMGUS voting is bad.
No, I didn't. I was angry and still am. I'll discuss this further in about a month or so.
Thank you very much to claim you are a power role and your power ir related the clock positioning, do you want to claim something more sir?
So you presume him town for it. Me too. At least we can agree on something.
---------- top3 scum
WOD: AE, Asian (or Alpha?), (Artifice?)
DRey: Brinato, Zas, kpaca
Wessel: Vezok, Yanni, Asian
Don't post people's "lists" with a bunch of question marks. Ask them.
Artifice 101 has done this in both of his only completed scum games (300 and Ender's). This is a definite tell for him. Leaning scum on him, especially given the massive overreaction to what was essentially an unbolded FoS.
If you believe me scum, vote me. The reason you can't and are instead attempting to undermine me rather than defend yourself is because you are scum trying to lay low.
Also, as I've said in multiple places, I'll be doing this "tell" you speak of in every game from here to eternity because I like it. Blame Seppel, who also does it regardless of alignment. You're trying to suggest I'm an idiot and would "scumslip" something that has been labeled as my scum meta. Nice WIFOM attack on me. Now please, get lynched.
I think a top three scum & town list from everyone would be helpful at this point.
Player Name: Scum Reads
Town Reads
WoD: AE, Asian (or Alpha?), (Artifice?)
DRey: Brinato, Zas, kpaca
Wessel: Vezok, Yanni, Asian
kpaca: DRey, (Artifice 101?), (Asian?)
Asian: Dancing Mad, Yanni, kpaca
iLord, Wessel, Niv
Why exactly do you think this helpful? You and I noth know lists/soft claims, etc. slow down wagons. Are you looking for town credit by maintaining this count?
I don't know what role would specifically gain from this info. For a special of this size, I'm skeptical when I see something like this, though. It doesn't read like speculation to me, it raises alarms in my head.
Feel like you're distracting in general by coming in like this and trying to shake things up. I don't have a feel for specifics yet.
Again, distracting from what?
When there's a follow up request to zero the aeon clock, explain how I should be reading this any other way? It smells funny to me, plain and simple.
Sorry...getting you and Iso mixed up now. I didn't like that post either. Apologies for attributimg it to you.
--->DJ
...you mixed up Iso's pseudo-claim and my attempt to generate discussion and attributed them to me? Is this because I asked if the Season Clock count had changed?
Also, I do not like how not presenting a 3 person scum list is becoming a scum tell in this game. I have no idea what vezok's alignment is in this game (and likely never will because of his posting style and frequency/personality/language) but there are only 600ish posts. His reason for not giving a list is a valid one.
@vezok: have you attacked anyone this game or voted? I'll look myself, but please answer this because I have a follow-up observation to make about it. Thanks.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Clan Is Dead.... Long Live The Izzet! Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
I tend to be suspicious of anyone who comes in and claims an ability to any degree in the early game. It's too easy to toss something out there and get green townies to be scared of voting you for the rest of,the game.
I'm not suggesting I have any more of a read other than that.
Ok, I'm not participating on this game anymore until we start to fill our top3 scum and start moving somewhere. I hate days 1 and this game is a going nowhere.
I will still answer direct questions of course.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
...you mixed up Iso's pseudo-claim and my attempt to generate discussion and attributed them to me? Is this because I asked if the Season Clock count had changed?
Valid question is valid.
IIRC, it was a comment designed to 'get people talking', which seems like a distraction from the cases peoole were discussion.
Again, apologies on the mix-up. I had it in my head that it was from you for some reason. It's not possible for me to open multiple browser windows on my phone to check it out before posting, which is making,things a little tough here.
I thought you were perfectly fine with lynching me today. Why did this change?
More than anything, you stopped posting as much.
In all seriousness, your posts (@Niv esp.) seem to have genuine frustration behind them, as opposed to scummy intentions.
I suppose I could elaborate a little on my kpaca read: He's taking a lot of pot shots and going with the flow (look at his voting pattern, he can't keep it in one place for more than a few RL days). He's also extremely lurky. Not his town meta.
If you believe me scum, vote me. The reason you can't and are instead attempting to undermine me rather than defend yourself is because you are scum trying to lay low.
I'm not undermining you, I am pointing out things you are doing that are scummy. Usage of buzzwords noted. I'm not voting you because I'm not convinced you are scum. False dichotomy noted. Depending on how players like Yanni and WoD flip, I will get a better sense of your alignment. Right now I see you making a lot of fallacious arguments that may be indicative of an anti-town agenda, but I'd rather stick to my stronger reads for the time being. Also, the accusation that I'm trying to lay low is preposterous given how much certain players are lurking. If I were scum and wanted an easy way out, I'd simply stop posting.
Also, as I've said in multiple places, I'll be doing this "tell" you speak of in every game from here to eternity because I like it. Blame Seppel, who also does it regardless of alignment. You're trying to suggest I'm an idiot and would "scumslip" something that has been labeled as my scum meta. Nice WIFOM attack on me. Now please, get lynched.
Seppel is incorrigible (and we wouldn't have him any other way).
Your bad habits, we can change. Even assuming you are playing this way as town, it's unhelpful and helps the scum blend in if they decide to emulate this low-content style of voting. Don't do it if you're town.
Why exactly do you think this helpful? You and I noth know lists/soft claims, etc. slow down wagons. Are you looking for town credit by maintaining this count?
There is no deadline. Why are you worried about me facilitating discussion? Do you think towns operate better when players' opinions are not down for the record? Also, we have never had a conversation specifically about this topic, so anything you think we "both know" is simply your conjecture. Don't put words in my mouth.
@vezok: have you attacked anyone this game or voted? I'll look myself, but please answer this because I have a follow-up observation to make about it. Thanks.
Your unwillingness to read does not strike me as usual to your town or scum meta. Changing things up?
Your certainty here is making me rethink all my suspicions of him.[/QUOTE]I only sound "desperate" because you say so.
Also, AI needs to be lynched because he's scum. I've already said why. Why are you not reading my posts and attempting to chainsaw me? Because I'm drawing attention and therefore potential lynch momentum?
Your previous attack on me was noted and dismissed. Now I believe you scum as well for two bad attacks (this one accompanying a vote). Opportunistic vote is opportunistic.
My meta was mentioned, incorrectly. Look it up yourself. Oh wait, you were in some of those games. You know AI's statement was pure bull. Why haven't you called him out on it. Oh, that's right... he was defending you earlier.
Why don't you want the town to think about how many scum are in the game? That's the only reason to dislike my "gaming the set up". The reactions have been worth reading.
I'm wondering why some people haven't answered the question....
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
I only sound "desperate" because you (Wrath) say so.
EDIT: Why do you keep trying soooo hard to "catch" me? You keep acting like there's been some grea, grand AH-HA! moment, when there hasn't.
Also, AI needs to be lynched because he's scum. I've already said why. Why are you not reading my posts and attempting to chainsaw me? Because I'm drawing attention and therefore potential lynch momentum?
Your previous attack on me was noted and dismissed. Now I believe you scum as well for two bad attacks (this one accompanying a vote). Opportunistic vote is opportunistic.
=====
The rest of the post is cool.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
I haven't spoken to it because I have no idea how many scum are in the game, and I'm wholly unsure as to why it has any bearing on what's currently happening.
I know the idea is to "get people talking", but on the other hand, it also looks like you're trying to get people to stop paying attention to the current cases. That's my guess as to why it gets a negative reaction, and I agree with that point all the way.
It also makes me think you could be going for easy info that ties into something in your role. Again, it doesn't look particularly good to me.
--->DJ
I made my request clear. This game is of a size we don't "Normally" see. Has there ever been a 21 player Specialty? I'd like to speculate as to the nature of the game because it helps the town win.
If you think I'm "distracting" from a lynch, who's lynch is so pending that I'm trying to distract from it? This series of reasons is just terrible.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I hate to say it, but Yanni has a point.
I have been trying to get players to read and think for themselves, if you're paying attention. I don't care if people agree with me in the short term as long as we lynch correctly in the long term. Thinking -> Winning.
There wasn't anything I could have said in response that wouldn't make me look worse, so it was unfair. Are we not speaking along the same wavelength?
I'd like you to demonstrate how modgaming a game advertised as unmodgameable helps the town win.
Scumlist:
Archmage Eternal
AsianInvasion
Wessel
DRey
iLord or Niv
Throw Yanni in there if any of my reads are wrong.
Vague reasoning for each:
Wessel and DRey are tied together pretty heavily, and so are DRey and AsianInvasion. DRey is obvscum. (For what it's worth, DRey only puts exaggerations or representations of what people say in quotations when he's scum.) AsianInvasion did everything he could to detract from Archmage Eternal's wagon, and also tied himself as buddies with Wessel. Niv did a few things that pinged my scumdar, though I don't remember specifically what (though I'm sure I could point them out if I looked back). iLord does not appear to be playing his town game. All of my top scumreads are behaving super scummily, and I'd be fine with lynching people in the order I have presented their names. Yanni is playing how he always plays, but I don't like the way in which he hopped wagons all throughout the game. (Spoilers: iLord is probably scum.)
I can say without hesitation that Brinatoo, Pale Mage, and kpaca are town, so I will be buddying up with them for the entire game. (P.S., Brinatoo is a much better scum player than he is town player.) Gonna go out on a limb and say WoD and Art are also probably town.
@WoD: Artifice always tunnels. Al. Ways.
Oh, and I've opted to completely ignore Nakamura's awful beginning play.
Incidently, until around page 20, this was the most difficulty I've ever had composing a scumlist in a game of Mafia.
I disagree, I think noob town are LESS likely to get frustrated than noob town.
5-6. Though I'd be interested in seeing how neutrals affect that number.
It'd be nice if Vezok actually provided some content.
Yes, mom.
Man, this post got a lot bigger than I thought it was going to be.
So yeah, now that I'm done with my read, any questions?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Mod: Votecount, please?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
If anyone can reset the clock to 0 or move it past 0 should do so, as it would be most appreciated. Not asking you to reveal who you are or even hint that you can do this. Just asking you to do it. Thanks.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I understand you said "vague reasoning," but you'll really need to be more specific if you want your reads to have any credibility at all, something I'm sure you've heard in the past. Looking forward to "in-depth reasoning."
See:
&
You really need to stop trying to sound scummy on purpose, that's not productive as town or as scum.
When scum is scummy, they get lynched and that's bad for their health.
When town is scummy, they get lynched (worse) or they distract the town and remove the focus from the real scum (bad).
I can't believe you won the awards... Artifice is miles better than you.
Naka has a played a lot (when you sum all his accounts :p) I was under the impression Burst was a newbie, I was fooled, I'm felt betrayed and fooled.
From my mind: Yanni, Poggy, Vezok, deathsomethingIforgot, I will never favor the lynch of these guys without hard facts.
AI is good scum, he's not afraid to heavy barn, so you are wrong.
You did sound desesperate you know? Please maintain your focus, giving in to your instincts and OMGUS voting is bad.
Thank you very much to claim you are a power role and your power ir related the clock positioning, do you want to claim something more sir?
----------
top3 scum
WOD: AE, Asian (or Alpha?), (Artifice?)
DRey: Brinato, Zas, kpaca
Wessel: Vezok, Yanni, Asian
@guys more names please and tell me if I made a mistake, let's move this game out of boredom into scum nightmare!
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Millionaires, I hear it's good Music (Disclaimer: lyrics not PG-13) Thanks, CC
There's little that the defendant can say in response to meta/language tells other than "you're wrong." They're not directed towards you, but rather for the sake of persuading the rest of the town.
With regards to your #475, the term "mudslinging" tends to imply some degree of malicious intent. You think I'm intentionally making you look bad, but also that I'm town?
Obviously, the default isn't fishing for reactions - most opinions are made solely for the sake of expressing an opinion. I didn't see any indication that Zas was doing anything more than a clever way of expressing his suspicion of DRey.
Niv's #16 had the popcorn smiley. It doesn't get much more explicit than that.
"Concerning" means it worries me and "intentionally difficult" means exactly what it says on the lid. "Fear of committal" was the scum mindset in my dichotomy opposite from "intentionally difficult," which would be the alignment neutral mindset.
In essence, I didn't think Zas initially withholding who he was talking about was scummy in itself, but his pointed refusal to capitulate afterwards was either town being purposely troublesome or scum afraid of committing.
The distinction is important, but the point stands. The natural default would still more likely be "Gigas is scum" than "Gigas is town," given his hunch.
I don't think what we're saying is similar at all. You're saying it's justified - I'm saying it's indicative of scum.
My Custom Set: Solescurio
Unvote, Vote AsianInvasion
I'm not.
I like your ad hom, bro.
You're welcome. I like your fluff post, bro.
kpaca, ask me things!
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@AI(I like to call AsianInvasion AI and AlphaInsidious Alpha for future reference): What are your thoughts on what happened with me and Gigas? You had said you were going to keep a close eye on it.
@Iso: Your reads scare me in similarity. What do you think about Dancing Mad being sure that Drey is town with her(?) correctly identifying him? #521
Unvote, Vote DRey
Good thing you mentioned the scum so we know you aren't one!
Someone just earned himself a reread.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Asian: Dancing Mad, Yanni, kpaca
Town can mudsling, too. Mudslinging, like WIFOM, is more indicative of bad play than scummy play; it all depends on intent (and I think yours is townish).
You're welcome. If you'd like to return the favor, I would appreciate that "in-depth reasoning" I'm hearing is all the rage these days, preferably prior to everyone forgetting you voting without providing any.
The situation hasn't progressed, so there is nothing to comment on. FWIW, I'm leaning town on you currently.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
You agree with all of the above?
YOU WILL NEVER BE SURE
As do I.
Pretty sure folks of all alignments call for votes when they want them.
Ouch?
Can you provide me with an example of this from a completed game, please.
Why this reaction?
How about a single post with your findings instead of bloating the thread.
Next post from you better be an update. Don't care if you aren't finished. Where are you and what are your thoughts. We had enough plain sight lurkery from your predecessor.
Which cases do you think he's concerned about?
Fishing accusation for number of scum speculation? Are you simply piling on here? If you have something specific in mind, please fill us in. The request strikes me as more useless than dangerous.
Your making a jump here. Dude said "cases", not "lynches". One may lead to the other, but not always. Nice reframing.
How's your 'net access? What specifically do you hate about Art's request? That's a strong response.
If DRey is obvscum, why is his name so far down on the list? Particularly why is he below Wessel.
Why am I town? You can't read me for crap as I recall. How 'bout the others?
As have I. Margin of error is too high there.
Sure would. He's already ducked one question, and I'd hate to see Alpha's inquiry get ignored.
Why are you worried about what's bad for the scum's health, DRey? Surely if Iso is town he's confident he can assuage any suspicion his own actions bring, yes?
Oh, please tell me why you felt "betrayed".
Hey, guys! Apparently the scum don't have Daytalk!
I swear, this isn't going to be another Hetalia.
Hey, why did you want to lynch Brinatoo again? Where are you in your reading, and what are your thoughts, sir?
See above. Update. Where are you and what have you learned, think, feel, whatever.
That should be indication of how strongly I feel about the others. I also think that their alignments will be more telling of DRey's in the long run.
That was about 11 completed games ago. At any rate, they are town for their actions as a combination of mindset and what they have done in relation to the players I believe are scum.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Perhaps you and I have different definitions for "obvscum".
The problem here is you not only gave him the label, but backed it up with something specific (meta, but specific). Vaguery isn't going to get it done if you're on the level. Obviously you're implying you feel more strongly about those higher on the list. I want to know why.
...only one of which you were fortunate enough to play with me. Plenty of people find me difficult to read. What makes you so sure? I'm rather clever as a bad guy, you know.
FWIW, I'm cautiously optimistic about kpaca myself. Brinatoo will hopefully be more active which should help me out there. He's more or less kept his deadline, which is good.
I like AI's reaction to the iLord wagon, and don't really understand Ced's POV of kicking that off. Naka's reaction to AI's pressure in #64, 66,
DJC's #71 was probably the worst post I've read so far, considering he manages to contradict the only post of substance he's posted at that point in the game. Not saying much, considering i'm ~20% done, but it's what has stood out.
DRey has responded well to the pressure he's been under thus far.
Leaning town on AI, DRey & iLord so far. That's about all.
Artifice 101 has done this in both of his only completed scum games (300 and Ender's). This is a definite tell for him. Leaning scum on him, especially given the massive overreaction to what was essentially an unbolded FoS.
Sure?
Are you calling both DRey and Iso scum here? I don't like this kind of "sarcasm," it's too easy to veil baseless accusations behind humor to subtly influence the opinions of others.
I think a top three scum & town list from everyone would be helpful at this point.
Thanks to DNC at Heroes of the plane studios for this awesome sig and SGT_Chubbz for the awesome avy.
Check out the Shop Thread
Top 3 scum please.
Fill us in.
Top 3 scum please.
I'm not, I'm worried if he's actually town, because he tends to play bad and distract the town into mislynching him. He's also full of himself and that's probably hindering his play.
I liked Burst, even traded some PM's with him (before the game started obviously). I also defended him on this game because he was such an greenhorn on StarTrek, the problem is, Naka isn't a greenhorn, his cluelessness was not real, it was just a ploy to avoid the pressure, and I hate him for fooling me.
Hey guys! Apparently PM thinks I'm scum with Iso but don't have the guts to openly say it.
Top 3 scum please.
What about Hetalia?
No, it's not, you won't provide a list because you aren't reading or because you are afraid to commit, neither are good reasons.
Look I know you can play well when you devote yourself to it, can you please put some effort here? please make a reread and be active here ok?
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Really?
No, just DRey.
Fret not. If you don't like that kind of sarcasm I have many other flavors. One is bound to strike your fancy. Plus, anyone paying attention to the game already knows I'm suspicious of DRey.
Why? We're getting people back into the game and one of them hasn't even caught up. I'd rather hear from folks like gan dan, Niv, Vezok, and Brinatoo without handing them a paint-by-numbers set on how to blend in their reads.
Speaking of Vezok...
I believe you owe us some responses, sir.
Vote: Vezokpiraka
I'll probably get around to explaining that eventually.
How do you figure that?
If you had read anything beyond me saying something about my ability, you would have the answer to that question.
That's not how I interpreted it. Then again, I'm not scum, so of course that would be my natural response. When I read it, my first thought was, "Pale Mage noticed that DRey is calling attention to stuff regarding my ability to his scumbuddies in case they missed it, hence, they don't have daytalk." Which, IMO, gives Pale Mage town points.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Generally I'm rather bad at making connections, especially this early in the game.
So, I'd have to say, I can see AI as scum, and I can see AE as scum, but I'm completely undecided on Wessel right now.
Would you care to highlight some of the interactions for me?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I thought you were perfectly fine with lynching me today. Why did this change?
I don't know what role would specifically gain from this info. For a special of this size, I'm skeptical when I see something like this, though. It doesn't read like speculation to me, it raises alarms in my head.
Feel like you're distracting in general by coming in like this and trying to shake things up. I don't have a feel for specifics yet.
When there's a follow up request to zero the aeon clock, explain how I should be reading this any other way? It smells funny to me, plain and simple.
@Pale Mage:
This should answer your questions too. Please let me know if it does not.
--->DJ
Sorry...getting you and Iso mixed up now. I didn't like that post either. Apologies for attributimg it to you.
--->DJ
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
This I strongly disagree with and would kindly ask you to leave my name out of your mouth when insulting others.
No, I didn't. I was angry and still am. I'll discuss this further in about a month or so.
So you presume him town for it. Me too. At least we can agree on something.
Don't post people's "lists" with a bunch of question marks. Ask them.
Would you two kids please play nice?
Also, @Iso why are you asking kpaca to ask you things?
Go for it. You'll find he's town if you know him at all.
Are you calling this a language scum slip? If so, why?
Why, why, and why?
Feel better.
Can you explain the bolded?
Why, why, and why?
I formally request that we please start calling AsianInvasion AsianI and AphaInsideous AlphaI. The confusion helps the scum. Thanks in advance.
If you believe me scum, vote me. The reason you can't and are instead attempting to undermine me rather than defend yourself is because you are scum trying to lay low.
Also, as I've said in multiple places, I'll be doing this "tell" you speak of in every game from here to eternity because I like it. Blame Seppel, who also does it regardless of alignment. You're trying to suggest I'm an idiot and would "scumslip" something that has been labeled as my scum meta. Nice WIFOM attack on me. Now please, get lynched.
Why exactly do you think this helpful? You and I noth know lists/soft claims, etc. slow down wagons. Are you looking for town credit by maintaining this count?
I look forward to you demonstrating what you're talking about here.
Again, distracting from what?
...you mixed up Iso's pseudo-claim and my attempt to generate discussion and attributed them to me? Is this because I asked if the Season Clock count had changed?
Valid question is valid.
Also, I do not like how not presenting a 3 person scum list is becoming a scum tell in this game. I have no idea what vezok's alignment is in this game (and likely never will because of his posting style and frequency/personality/language) but there are only 600ish posts. His reason for not giving a list is a valid one.
@vezok: have you attacked anyone this game or voted? I'll look myself, but please answer this because I have a follow-up observation to make about it. Thanks.
Johnny, born and raised. Always lookin' for the Next Level Combo. Thanks to Bornover of FHLS for the banner!
Mafia Results, Links, and Stats
I tend to be suspicious of anyone who comes in and claims an ability to any degree in the early game. It's too easy to toss something out there and get green townies to be scared of voting you for the rest of,the game.
I'm not suggesting I have any more of a read other than that.
--->DJ
I will still answer direct questions of course.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
IIRC, it was a comment designed to 'get people talking', which seems like a distraction from the cases peoole were discussion.
Again, apologies on the mix-up. I had it in my head that it was from you for some reason. It's not possible for me to open multiple browser windows on my phone to check it out before posting, which is making,things a little tough here.
--->DJ
Thanks for contributing.
More than anything, you stopped posting as much.
In all seriousness, your posts (@Niv esp.) seem to have genuine frustration behind them, as opposed to scummy intentions.
Reading is tech.
I suppose I could elaborate a little on my kpaca read: He's taking a lot of pot shots and going with the flow (look at his voting pattern, he can't keep it in one place for more than a few RL days). He's also extremely lurky. Not his town meta.
I'm not undermining you, I am pointing out things you are doing that are scummy. Usage of buzzwords noted. I'm not voting you because I'm not convinced you are scum. False dichotomy noted. Depending on how players like Yanni and WoD flip, I will get a better sense of your alignment. Right now I see you making a lot of fallacious arguments that may be indicative of an anti-town agenda, but I'd rather stick to my stronger reads for the time being. Also, the accusation that I'm trying to lay low is preposterous given how much certain players are lurking. If I were scum and wanted an easy way out, I'd simply stop posting.
Seppel is incorrigible (and we wouldn't have him any other way).
Your bad habits, we can change. Even assuming you are playing this way as town, it's unhelpful and helps the scum blend in if they decide to emulate this low-content style of voting. Don't do it if you're town.
There is no deadline. Why are you worried about me facilitating discussion? Do you think towns operate better when players' opinions are not down for the record? Also, we have never had a conversation specifically about this topic, so anything you think we "both know" is simply your conjecture. Don't put words in my mouth.
Your unwillingness to read does not strike me as usual to your town or scum meta. Changing things up?