I don't feel good about joboman, but I read genuine frustration from Archmage Eternal here. Either joboman's town who's got scum AE cornered or joboman's scum who's getting on town AE's nerves.
Why not town joboman getting on town AE's nerves?
It's academic, of course, because AE is scum. How many times have I seen this pattern? Noob 26, Kithkin, Manga - compare them to town games where he gets rung up such as Cubus's Normal/Basic #9 and you will see the difference. unvote; vote Archmage Eternal.
It's a possibility, but the other two seem more likely to me, probably because there isn't a mob of scum egging on a townie vs. townie fight like so many vultures.
It's academic, of course, because AE is scum. How many times have I seen this pattern? Noob 26, Kithkin, Manga - compare them to town games where he gets rung up such as Cubus's Normal/Basic #9 and you will see the difference. unvote; vote Archmage Eternal.
I just noticed something. You reference meta all the time, but I bet 90% of the people you play with with never actually go back and read these older games. I should probably start checking these out to make sure the evidence is actually there.
I don't think anyone commented on my idea that players who benefit from being targeted or confer benefits to those who target them should claim.
I'll take the lack of response as a lack of interest in the plan.
I don't feel good about joboman, but I read genuine frustration from Archmage Eternal here. Either joboman's town who's got scum AE cornered or joboman's scum who's getting on town AE's nerves.
FOS. You've played with me before. I have a tendency to piss people off, and this is a null tell. Why do you create such a false dichotomy here, when you know better?
It's academic, of course, because AE is scum. How many times have I seen this pattern? Noob 26, Kithkin, Manga - compare them to town games where he gets rung up such as Cubus's Normal/Basic #9 and you will see the difference. unvote; vote Archmage Eternal.
FOS. You've played with me before. I have a tendency to piss people off, and this is a null tell. Why do you create such a false dichotomy here, when you know better?
Archmage Eternal has also played with you before, but I don't recall him getting riled up about it.
Essentially there are four possibilities. You're both town, you're town and he's scum, you're scum and he's town, or you're both scum.
I don't think you're both scum because his frustration would be hard to fake if you were scum bussing each other.
I don't think you're both town because there isn't that much interest in your face-off and I'd expect scum to be encouraging you two to go at each other.
Therefore I think one of you is scum and the other town.
Based on where my vote is you can discern which way I'm leaning right now.
It's a possibility, but the other two seem more likely to me, probably because there isn't a mob of scum egging on a townie vs. townie fight like so many vultures.
I just noticed something. You reference meta all the time, but I bet 90% of the people you play with with never actually go back and read these older games. I should probably start checking these out to make sure the evidence is actually there.
I don't think anyone commented on my idea that players who benefit from being targeted or confer benefits to those who target them should claim.
I'll take the lack of response as a lack of interest in the plan.
He uses meta all the time but at the same time says meta can't be used. It's great.
But anyway, if people actually check AE meta with a non slanted view, you will see he is just a really bad town player. Like even if you aren't sure if he is scum, it would make more sense to play the percentages than to lynch him day 1.
Why am I helping you guys exactly?
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Pretty sure it doesn't work like that.
Please explain to me in detail how a scumtell can be presented as WIFOM.
Also, just to clear up what you're going on about, please explain to me in detail how a town tell could be WIFOM.
You're shifting rationale again, I think. Here, you say that it's mostly on the bad plans thing, then the deflection thing made you actually move from FoS to vote.
Here, you say that it is "mainly" loran's attacks on you (as an aside, that's a really strange "mainly" that involves half a sentence of mentioning it in your voting post, which I'm pretty sure is the point that loran is making).
So, is the "OMGUS attack" the crux of the case, or the extra?
So, you say coincidence?
Hmm, ok, I'll leave that one.
Ah. Here's an interesting thing.
Here, I'd say that you are doing exactly what you accused Loran of doing with his "bad plan" thing.
What you accused him of doing, IIRC, is try to ignore where he was wrong, and concentrate on "pro-town" things, or whatever.
What you just did is, rather than actually admit that you didn't actually know for sure what deflection/OMGUS are, just thought you did and admit you were wrong etc, is to try and half-heartedly hold the accusation up with something about "loran didn't provide reasoning" and "I'm not sure why it is scummy".
Rather than acknowledge where you went wrong, you danced around it with the fairly evasive "I would say it was set in stone", then tried to rebuild the point.
So, with that in mind, what do you think of your point on loran now?
It's a backpedal because you are effectively going back and saying "when I said this, I meant this".
In this case, you're going back and saying "oh, when I say
This is as far as I got before reading that bit in more depth. And, yeh.
Here's a shortened version of a particular conversation that led to this point:
Somebody: "Why no vote?"
TACKY: "I want to do more analysis."
TACKY (later): "Vote Loran."
Me: "I thought that you said that you wanted to do more analysis."
TACKY: "Yes, I did, here it is."
Me: "Why didn't you bring this up when you voted Loran?"
TACKY: (this one is an actual quote):
"I just hadn't posted it because I was trying to figure out if it was a scum or a town thing to do, defend to the end."
So, you're now trying to argue a different point.
So, if the "additional analysis" that you claim to have done gave you no real read either way at the time that you voted, then what did make the "bad plan" thing scummier all of a sudden?
I'm talking about for the times when info is already on the table.
If we have too few trigger guy claims, then the plan isn't too great, since it might funnel too much targeting onto those people, wasting potential.
If we have too many trigger guy, then we can end up leaving a load of people in the open and without anything relevant to do.
If we have the right amount, then it works.
We can evaluate this on a case-by case basis.
In the example of this situation, we have Axelrod claiming an ability, and vezok claiming an ability. We only need two people targeting vezok, which isn't hard to arrange, and we can have any number of people targeting Axelrod - but we have huge control over who that is, since we can confirm who targets him. Then we have loran and joboman, whoever wants to target them. As far as I can tell from the random snippets of info that jobo seems to want to give out, he has an ability that does something anyway.
Really?
Why does my post as it is incur suspicion from you, but a superficial and essentially meaningless change like writing "FoS TACKY" and bolding it would not?
And I'm obviously not voting you because I'm voting Flew. But I kind of think that this wagon is more productive now.
Unvote Flew
Vote TACKY
I read through this, and was actually reminded most of this:
AE was town in that game.
Plus, last time I played with scum AE (in Fahrenheit 451 Mafia, a game which, to be truthful, had ambiguous wincons, and the "scum" where actually weird cult factions), he was doing lots of scumhunting (or feigning it, or whatever). I think that I pinned him as scum in that game on the wording of a couple of accusations he made (then let him go :-().
There was a post of his earlier that caught my eye (at the start, where I questioned him), because the way he tried to be critical of everything that had been presented at the same time. But, as it conspired, I just misunderstood it.
There are a number of things I don't like here.
The first of them is that you point out the relevant point of TACKY trying to make it sound like he knows more than he does, but you then try to pass it off as a scum tell. You know just as well as I do that Egotistical is null, if not a town tell in some cases.
How is knowing which players targeted Loran "easily confirmable"?
I also do not like how you defend AE.
BIG BIG FOS. This is not the normal town ced play.
I'm just suspicious as to why you would attack me this way and then not vote. I know your stance on me, it's pretty clear, but no vote, no FoS, nothing. It raised my eyebrow first.
But anyway, if people actually check AE meta with a non slanted view, you will see he is just a really bad town player. Like even if you aren't sure if he is scum, it would make more sense to play the percentages than to lynch him day 1.
I don't recall him acting like this in Anita Blake. I'll check some of his other games though.
The first of them is that you point out the relevant point of TACKY trying to make it sound like he knows more than he does, but you then try to pass it off as a scum tell. You know just as well as I do that Egotistical is null, if not a town tell in some cases.
How is knowing which players targeted Loran "easily confirmable"?
I also do not like how you defend AE.
BIG BIG FOS. This is not the normal town ced play.
Actually yes it is normal town ced play.
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Oh right, Tacky. Unvote, Vote Tacky. Your changing justification for voting me is really scummy. Tacky, answer me this: Is proposing what you think is a bad plan a scummy action?
First, my justification for voting you has NEVER CHANGED. You were suspicious for the cases, then you attacked me, which took me over the edge to vote you, and finally the gained analysis from arguing with you about your plans further served to solidify my opinion.
The Bad plan is not very scummy by itself, but it is scummy. It is enough to raise questions in my mind which may lead to more scummy action. I didn't vote you because of just your plan though. I voted you, on top of other things, for your refusal to see your plan as bad. I didn't even need you to drop your plan, just recognize that it was not as solid as you kept implying, which is something you never did. In this way, the plan was very scummy.
Response to ced coming soon.
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First, my justification for voting you has NEVER CHANGED. You were suspicious for the cases, then you attacked me, which took me over the edge to vote you, and finally the gained analysis from arguing with you about your plans further served to solidify my opinion.
The Bad plan is not very scummy by itself, but it is scummy. It is enough to raise questions in my mind which may lead to more scummy action. I didn't vote you because of just your plan though. I voted you, on top of other things, for your refusal to see your plan as bad. I didn't even need you to drop your plan, just recognize that it was not as solid as you kept implying, which is something you never did. In this way, the plan was very scummy.
Response to ced coming soon.
Everytime I have seen Loran as town in recent days, he tries to rally the town and propose a plan (I think he thinks he's puzzle). I doubt as scum he'd do that, he'd probably just let the town self destruct.
I suppose I'll post like once a day to avoid prods.
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Pretty sure it doesn't work like that.
Please explain to me in detail how a scumtell can be presented as WIFOM.
Also, just to clear up what you're going on about, please explain to me in detail how a town tell could be WIFOM.
I'm not saying these things are always presented as WIFOM, but they can be WIFOM. When it comes to judging people as town/scum, it's all WIFOM without an investigation. "Player A is scum/town because of this post" could be true, or it could be Player A faking a good town or accidentally doing something scummy. That's why tells are tricky, can be useful, but can also fool the town into a false truth.
You're shifting rationale again, I think. Here, you say that it's mostly on the bad plans thing, then the deflection thing made you actually move from FoS to vote.
It's very clear when you read my series of posts. The plans argument causes my suspicion, it boils and boils until my vote post, where I've come to an analytical conclusion and Loran has done something to further set off my scumdar. I'm not voting out of the blue or changing my reasoning or anything of the sort. It's always been that same combined effort of reasons for my vote.
Here, you say that it is "mainly" loran's attacks on you (as an aside, that's a really strange "mainly" that involves half a sentence of mentioning it in your voting post, which I'm pretty sure is the point that loran is making).
So, is the "OMGUS attack" the crux of the case, or the extra?
Where is there a need to find the mystical "main point" of my case? There isn't one, it's all points I hold against the man. So no, OMGUS isn't the main crux of my case, but as I've stated before, it was the deciding factor in my vote. That's the straw that broke my back. Half a sentance/paragraph/post/page it doesn't matter. Besides, it was a simple point, I don't feel like I needed to dedicate a long drawn out explaination for it. It was simply "You also did this scummy, I think it's pretty terrible, and it's causing my vote.". This is being made into something much more than it really is.
Ah. Here's an interesting thing.
Here, I'd say that you are doing exactly what you accused Loran of doing with his "bad plan" thing.
What you accused him of doing, IIRC, is try to ignore where he was wrong, and concentrate on "pro-town" things, or whatever.
What you just did is, rather than actually admit that you didn't actually know for sure what deflection/OMGUS are, just thought you did and admit you were wrong etc, is to try and half-heartedly hold the accusation up with something about "loran didn't provide reasoning" and "I'm not sure why it is scummy".
Rather than acknowledge where you went wrong, you danced around it with the fairly evasive "I would say it was set in stone", then tried to rebuild the point.
So, with that in mind, what do you think of your point on loran now?
I think it stands. I've asked for explainations as to why it's scummy before, but I don't think I got a response from him on that. I got an answer, think it was from Asian, but might need to double check.
And I do think those definitions fit pretty well. The differences you pointed out are nitpicky.
Deflection didn't fit because normally someone deflects onto a third party, but attacking anybody when you are underfire is really deflection, thirt party or not.
OMGUS didn't fit because he didn't lay on a vote/FoS after he made his point. Again, the only thing missing is that, but it's still OMGUS IMO, because he dropped "scummy" onto me with no reason, and in response to pressure nonetheless.
Here you try and pick apart my statement with specifics and twist it into what Loran is doing, making it seem like I'm hypocritical, which is just not the case. Loran has never once admitted a fault in his plan, which is something that spans several posts. I stick up for my deflection/OMGUS theory in one post and suddenly I'm just as bad as he? I'm not buying it.
It's a backpedal because you are effectively going back and saying "when I said this, I meant this".
In this case, you're going back and saying "oh, when I say
This is as far as I got before reading that bit in more depth. And, yeh.
Here's a shortened version of a particular conversation that led to this point:
Somebody: "Why no vote?"
TACKY: "I want to do more analysis."
TACKY (later): "Vote Loran."
Me: "I thought that you said that you wanted to do more analysis."
TACKY: "Yes, I did, here it is."
Me: "Why didn't you bring this up when you voted Loran?"
TACKY: (this one is an actual quote):
"I just hadn't posted it because I was trying to figure out if it was a scum or a town thing to do, defend to the end."
So, you're now trying to argue a different point.
So, if the "additional analysis" that you claim to have done gave you no real read either way at the time that you voted, then what did make the "bad plan" thing scummier all of a sudden?
I said I was trying to decide, that doesn't mean I didn't have a good idea. I was leaning on the idea that it was a scummy thing to do, a little voice in the back of my head had a little protest, and I thought it was probably better to weight the options a bit more rather than post something I might regret later. So, I was leaning scum on that issue, didn't like the attack on me, caused a vote. I decided to not listen to the WIFOMy voice and go with my gut feeling.
I'm talking about for the times when info is already on the table.
If we have too few trigger guy claims, then the plan isn't too great, since it might funnel too much targeting onto those people, wasting potential.
If we have too many trigger guy, then we can end up leaving a load of people in the open and without anything relevant to do.
If we have the right amount, then it works.
We can evaluate this on a case-by case basis.
In the example of this situation, we have Axelrod claiming an ability, and vezok claiming an ability. We only need two people targeting vezok, which isn't hard to arrange, and we can have any number of people targeting Axelrod - but we have huge control over who that is, since we can confirm who targets him. Then we have loran and joboman, whoever wants to target them. As far as I can tell from the random snippets of info that jobo seems to want to give out, he has an ability that does something anyway.[QUOTE=ced395;/comments/10676977]
I still have a problem here. You list 3 scenarios, and 2 of them have problems. So essentially you are guessing about the game setup and hoping you are right, which is still a terrible idea.
[QUOTE=ced395;/comments/10676977]Really?
Why does my post as it is incur suspicion from you, but a superficial and essentially meaningless change like writing "FoS TACKY" and bolding it would not?
And I'm obviously not voting you because I'm voting Flew. But I kind of think that this wagon is more productive now.
Unvote Flew
Vote TACKY
You had made a case on Flew and were heavily pursuing it. Then, out of the blue, you get onto me, effectively distracting from your own case to attack me. Then, after a long post of attacks and suspicion onto me, you leave saying you are tempted to move your vote to me.
Here you say that you didn't want to because you were already voting, but why not FoS? You were THAT CLOSE to voting me, so why wouldn't you FoS? It's just incredibly suspicious why you would go so far out of your way only to just leave me hanging.
Oh, and it may be meaningless to you, but FoS and Vote's are pretty important. I would have made a difference because that's what lets me know that you mean business. Just casing me then leaving it makes me feel like you are just casing for something other than scumhunting. Makes me feel like it's all for appearances.
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I can't agree with that assessment of Ced at all, I've always found him to be very solid as town. And definitely less aggressive than he has been today. He's probably worth looking at after AE.
I can't agree with that assessment of Ced at all, I've always found him to be very solid as town. And definitely less aggressive than he has been today. He's probably worth looking at after AE.
Problem is people just assume he must be solid because he is Ced while they skim over his posts. And by wishy-washy I mean he gets a few targets, then piddles over which way he really wants to go. I don't find that innacurate at all.
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Just wanted to check in and tell you guys that I have been keeping up with this game. I haven't posted in the last 24 hours or so because I've been meaning to do a pretty serious reread to make sure I want to vote for AE. The case on him seems strong, and there seems to be enough evidence now for me to get my feet back on the ground this game. The way I was seeing the game was a little foggy there for a bit.
Ced is town. I am not pretty sure about TACKY (I don't like his Omgus-like answer to ced but that's about it from what I've read.) , but ced's behaviour is definitely town. His attacks (Against me then TACKY) were blatantly genuine.
I'm bored, and not seeking a prod, so even if it falls upon deaf ears, im going to do a player analysis.
Still Goo-ing around: 1. Archmage Eternal - Seems Fine. I dont get a hugely scummy vibe from him, and i get a feeling of Sincerity from him. 2. AsianInvasion - Alot better of play over symbiote (Where he was scum). I'd peg him solidly town 3. Axelrod - Feels different from his symbiote play. Dont quite know what to make of that, but he *IS* playing differently. 4. ced395 - Very... PBPA'y. I hate players like that, and i dont like it when players claim "Im trying a new playstyle cause of these recommendations!" 5. Cyan - Fits his new... utterly apathetic play style. Seems to be adopting a much lazier play style in this / symbiote. No bulldog. Also used this in AB to great effect, so.. i dunno. 6. Dancing Mad - Still my best bet for scum here. 7. falkonn - No read 8. Flew - I wanna say neutral here, because i dont see anything scummy, NOR townie from his toughts. But i kind of doubt it with me and Kpaca in this. 9. joboman (replacing ChrisXIV) - No read. I cant read jobo. 10. kpaca - My enemy. Obv scum 11. loran16 - I dont like almost any of his thought patterns this game. Seems insanely interested in killing me, and putting forth... untownie thoughts. I am aware this will seem as OMGUS, but whatever. 12. RobRoy - No read. Doesnt seemto be terribly active. 13. StormBlind - Neutral Golden Goo. NEXT!! 14. Syrenz - No read 15. TACKY - Townie read. Seems to have protown thoughts in his head, and is atleast scum hunting. Great. 16. Talore - No read, leaning townie, but not a huge amount. 17. vezokpiraka (replacing desCoures) - I dont think i like Vezoks POSTING style, and as such, he seems often scummy to me. Too much... brain->Mouth syndrome. Doesnt think about what he's saying at all. 18. Zajnet - No Read. Slightly townie 19. Zchinque -Im leaning scum here. Not hugely. 20. Zebi (replacing Buranri) - Town 21. zindabad - Scum
Those are my thoughts, take them or leave them. When i state i have no read, i mean no concrete, solid read. I *DO* have reads, just not good ones... at all.
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[19:59] greymon90210: Hey StormBlind how tall are you? "I'm six money *****, don't forget it"
"The Critics always said that we'd only have a black president when pigs flu"...
A 'targetting matters to me' claim actually seems decent.
This might be worth pursuing, and I believe is worthy of discussion. People could claim one of the following groups:
a) Want to not be targeted.
b) Want to be targeted by X-Y people (specifying values, obviously).
c) Want to be targeted by as many people as possible. (ex: Axelrod).
d) Do not care if they are targeted or not.
I dislike this a bit due to category a), but other than that it might be worthwhile. Thoughts?
I think people in category a should just claim in category d.
That way, the scum don't know exactly who gets hurt by being targeted alone. Vanilla townies and similar have no reason to target anyone in that category.
Powered town roles (eg. standard cops and similar) should probably have the freedom to target anyone anyway, without it being held against them.
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Alcoholic Mafia - Town LVP
Super Mario Galaxy
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
EchoChrome
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Picross 3D
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
BioShock
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
I think people in category a should just claim in category d.
That way, the scum don't know exactly who gets hurt by being targeted alone. Vanilla townies and similar have no reason to target anyone in that category.
True as long as category c) people are out there. Might stop being true later in the game.
True as long as category c) people are out there. Might stop being true later in the game.
Why? Vanillas (and others with just the basic targeting ability) don't need to target anyone, do they?
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Alcoholic Mafia - Town LVP
Super Mario Galaxy
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
EchoChrome
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Picross 3D
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
BioShock
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
Super Mario Galaxy
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
EchoChrome
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Picross 3D
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
BioShock
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
No we're not, it's close enough. If he comes back and says 'not claiming until 9 derpderp', any random 2 will just vote him to make it happen, and this will not have any bearing on them. His wagon is not contested(except by 2 claimed neutrals). To be fair, I thought that he was at 8, but, w/e.
Question: If we have people with target-threshhold abilities as described before, it's quite possible that both town and scum have them. What's stopping a scum member from claiming that threshhold, to gain an ability/another use of it/etc. to harm the town?
Unless I'm mistaken, a claim of said abilites would be risky at best.
I believe that we wouldn't power up somebody that was scummy. If you, for example, asked to be targeted I'd probbably be okay with it since you're pretty townie, but AE on the other hand wouldn't get targeted by others because he's so uncontestedly scummy.
I believe that we wouldn't power up somebody that was scummy. If you, for example, asked to be targeted I'd probbably be okay with it since you're pretty townie, but AE on the other hand wouldn't get targeted by others because he's so uncontestedly scummy.
You do realize good players (and there are some in this game), can seem town....................but actually be scum :o.
Shocking I know.
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L-2 is not some hard, locked in rule. He also could have just counted up the votes against him. Then he'd have realized that he was at 7/11. Are you really going to argue that someone shouldn't claim at that point? There's no way that he's not getting to L-2. No one is like 'zomg AE is town this wagon is terrible'. Oh sorry, no one except a claimed neutral. His VC request was a very obvious stall.
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Why not town joboman getting on town AE's nerves?
It's academic, of course, because AE is scum. How many times have I seen this pattern? Noob 26, Kithkin, Manga - compare them to town games where he gets rung up such as Cubus's Normal/Basic #9 and you will see the difference. unvote; vote Archmage Eternal.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
It's a possibility, but the other two seem more likely to me, probably because there isn't a mob of scum egging on a townie vs. townie fight like so many vultures.
I just noticed something. You reference meta all the time, but I bet 90% of the people you play with with never actually go back and read these older games. I should probably start checking these out to make sure the evidence is actually there.
I don't think anyone commented on my idea that players who benefit from being targeted or confer benefits to those who target them should claim.
I'll take the lack of response as a lack of interest in the plan.
FOS. You've played with me before. I have a tendency to piss people off, and this is a null tell. Why do you create such a false dichotomy here, when you know better?
Could you explain the difference please?
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
Archmage Eternal has also played with you before, but I don't recall him getting riled up about it.
Essentially there are four possibilities. You're both town, you're town and he's scum, you're scum and he's town, or you're both scum.
I don't think you're both scum because his frustration would be hard to fake if you were scum bussing each other.
I don't think you're both town because there isn't that much interest in your face-off and I'd expect scum to be encouraging you two to go at each other.
Therefore I think one of you is scum and the other town.
Based on where my vote is you can discern which way I'm leaning right now.
He uses meta all the time but at the same time says meta can't be used. It's great.
But anyway, if people actually check AE meta with a non slanted view, you will see he is just a really bad town player. Like even if you aren't sure if he is scum, it would make more sense to play the percentages than to lynch him day 1.
Why am I helping you guys exactly?
There are a number of things I don't like here.
The first of them is that you point out the relevant point of TACKY trying to make it sound like he knows more than he does, but you then try to pass it off as a scum tell. You know just as well as I do that Egotistical is null, if not a town tell in some cases.
How is knowing which players targeted Loran "easily confirmable"?
I also do not like how you defend AE.
BIG BIG FOS. This is not the normal town ced play.
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
I missed this before. When I asked you
you replied
So was that line about Ced sarcastic or not?
I don't recall him acting like this in Anita Blake. I'll check some of his other games though.
Lair of the Cat (Mafia Stats)
Actually yes it is normal town ced play.
First, my justification for voting you has NEVER CHANGED. You were suspicious for the cases, then you attacked me, which took me over the edge to vote you, and finally the gained analysis from arguing with you about your plans further served to solidify my opinion.
The Bad plan is not very scummy by itself, but it is scummy. It is enough to raise questions in my mind which may lead to more scummy action. I didn't vote you because of just your plan though. I voted you, on top of other things, for your refusal to see your plan as bad. I didn't even need you to drop your plan, just recognize that it was not as solid as you kept implying, which is something you never did. In this way, the plan was very scummy.
Response to ced coming soon.
Everytime I have seen Loran as town in recent days, he tries to rally the town and propose a plan (I think he thinks he's puzzle). I doubt as scum he'd do that, he'd probably just let the town self destruct.
I suppose I'll post like once a day to avoid prods.
I'm not saying these things are always presented as WIFOM, but they can be WIFOM. When it comes to judging people as town/scum, it's all WIFOM without an investigation. "Player A is scum/town because of this post" could be true, or it could be Player A faking a good town or accidentally doing something scummy. That's why tells are tricky, can be useful, but can also fool the town into a false truth.
It's very clear when you read my series of posts. The plans argument causes my suspicion, it boils and boils until my vote post, where I've come to an analytical conclusion and Loran has done something to further set off my scumdar. I'm not voting out of the blue or changing my reasoning or anything of the sort. It's always been that same combined effort of reasons for my vote.
Where is there a need to find the mystical "main point" of my case? There isn't one, it's all points I hold against the man. So no, OMGUS isn't the main crux of my case, but as I've stated before, it was the deciding factor in my vote. That's the straw that broke my back. Half a sentance/paragraph/post/page it doesn't matter. Besides, it was a simple point, I don't feel like I needed to dedicate a long drawn out explaination for it. It was simply "You also did this scummy, I think it's pretty terrible, and it's causing my vote.". This is being made into something much more than it really is.
I think it stands. I've asked for explainations as to why it's scummy before, but I don't think I got a response from him on that. I got an answer, think it was from Asian, but might need to double check.
And I do think those definitions fit pretty well. The differences you pointed out are nitpicky.
Deflection didn't fit because normally someone deflects onto a third party, but attacking anybody when you are underfire is really deflection, thirt party or not.
OMGUS didn't fit because he didn't lay on a vote/FoS after he made his point. Again, the only thing missing is that, but it's still OMGUS IMO, because he dropped "scummy" onto me with no reason, and in response to pressure nonetheless.
Here you try and pick apart my statement with specifics and twist it into what Loran is doing, making it seem like I'm hypocritical, which is just not the case. Loran has never once admitted a fault in his plan, which is something that spans several posts. I stick up for my deflection/OMGUS theory in one post and suddenly I'm just as bad as he? I'm not buying it.
I said I was trying to decide, that doesn't mean I didn't have a good idea. I was leaning on the idea that it was a scummy thing to do, a little voice in the back of my head had a little protest, and I thought it was probably better to weight the options a bit more rather than post something I might regret later. So, I was leaning scum on that issue, didn't like the attack on me, caused a vote. I decided to not listen to the WIFOMy voice and go with my gut feeling.
You had made a case on Flew and were heavily pursuing it. Then, out of the blue, you get onto me, effectively distracting from your own case to attack me. Then, after a long post of attacks and suspicion onto me, you leave saying you are tempted to move your vote to me.
Here you say that you didn't want to because you were already voting, but why not FoS? You were THAT CLOSE to voting me, so why wouldn't you FoS? It's just incredibly suspicious why you would go so far out of your way only to just leave me hanging.
Oh, and it may be meaningless to you, but FoS and Vote's are pretty important. I would have made a difference because that's what lets me know that you mean business. Just casing me then leaving it makes me feel like you are just casing for something other than scumhunting. Makes me feel like it's all for appearances.
Ced, Loran, TACKY, AE, me, Stormblind, and Syrenz are all bad tracks to go down today.
Problem is people just assume he must be solid because he is Ced while they skim over his posts. And by wishy-washy I mean he gets a few targets, then piddles over which way he really wants to go. I don't find that innacurate at all.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/blog.php?u=52729
Nothing serious yet, but a quick comment on what's happened so far as I see it.
Vezok is town.
No to the massclaim.
SB and Kpaca should be left alone for a day or two; if it's a scum gambit then it's an extremely risky one.
Don't see what's the big issue with Ced - his play feels rather.. normal. Although that being said, my best experience with him was as scum.
A 'targetting matters to me' claim actually seems decent.
Sign up for League of Legends!
[The Family] pressed the "lynch" button, thinking it was labeled "lunch" .
Still Goo-ing around:
1. Archmage Eternal - Seems Fine. I dont get a hugely scummy vibe from him, and i get a feeling of Sincerity from him.
2. AsianInvasion - Alot better of play over symbiote (Where he was scum). I'd peg him solidly town
3. Axelrod - Feels different from his symbiote play. Dont quite know what to make of that, but he *IS* playing differently.
4. ced395 - Very... PBPA'y. I hate players like that, and i dont like it when players claim "Im trying a new playstyle cause of these recommendations!"
5. Cyan - Fits his new... utterly apathetic play style. Seems to be adopting a much lazier play style in this / symbiote. No bulldog. Also used this in AB to great effect, so.. i dunno.
6. Dancing Mad - Still my best bet for scum here.
7. falkonn - No read
8. Flew - I wanna say neutral here, because i dont see anything scummy, NOR townie from his toughts. But i kind of doubt it with me and Kpaca in this.
9. joboman (replacing ChrisXIV) - No read. I cant read jobo.
10. kpaca - My enemy. Obv scum
11. loran16 - I dont like almost any of his thought patterns this game. Seems insanely interested in killing me, and putting forth... untownie thoughts. I am aware this will seem as OMGUS, but whatever.
12. RobRoy - No read. Doesnt seemto be terribly active.
13. StormBlind - Neutral Golden Goo. NEXT!!
14. Syrenz - No read
15. TACKY - Townie read. Seems to have protown thoughts in his head, and is atleast scum hunting. Great.
16. Talore - No read, leaning townie, but not a huge amount.
17. vezokpiraka (replacing desCoures) - I dont think i like Vezoks POSTING style, and as such, he seems often scummy to me. Too much... brain->Mouth syndrome. Doesnt think about what he's saying at all.
18. Zajnet - No Read. Slightly townie
19. Zchinque -Im leaning scum here. Not hugely.
20. Zebi (replacing Buranri) - Town
21. zindabad - Scum
Those are my thoughts, take them or leave them. When i state i have no read, i mean no concrete, solid read. I *DO* have reads, just not good ones... at all.
This might be worth pursuing, and I believe is worthy of discussion. People could claim one of the following groups:
a) Want to not be targeted.
b) Want to be targeted by X-Y people (specifying values, obviously).
c) Want to be targeted by as many people as possible. (ex: Axelrod).
d) Do not care if they are targeted or not.
I dislike this a bit due to category a), but other than that it might be worthwhile. Thoughts?
That way, the scum don't know exactly who gets hurt by being targeted alone. Vanilla townies and similar have no reason to target anyone in that category.
Powered town roles (eg. standard cops and similar) should probably have the freedom to target anyone anyway, without it being held against them.
Alcoholic Mafia - Town LVP
Super Mario Galaxy
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
EchoChrome
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
BioShock
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
True as long as category c) people are out there. Might stop being true later in the game.
Agreed.
Why? Vanillas (and others with just the basic targeting ability) don't need to target anyone, do they?
Alcoholic Mafia - Town LVP
Super Mario Galaxy
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
EchoChrome
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
BioShock
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
How many abilities that you have can be used to target somebody? How many times would you like to be targeted. in X:X format such as 2:3 or 4:5
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
If by 'better' you mean 'completely terrible' then yes, this is a great plan.
Good to know that jobo is town though.
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
Alcoholic Mafia - Town LVP
Super Mario Galaxy
Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story
EchoChrome
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Assassin's Creed 2
Batman: Arkham Asylum
BioShock
Demon's Souls
Final Fantasy I, II, IV, VII & XII
Kingdom Hearts
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Mass Effect
Metal Gear Solid 4
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
Are you kiddn' me? Town? Fishing for more info on roles?
Looks to be setting up a witch hunt. Not liking Jobo at all, can't understand how Cyan gets a town read from him.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
You say this like you haven't already voted for me.
Belated OMGUS
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
*long sigh*
Just because someone votes you when you are voting them does not automatically make it OMGUS.
This is true. I've noticed though that his prior vote on me, although, was OMGUS.
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
Bla bla bla, give me all your roles to filter through.
Thats what the vote is for. Spin it however you want.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
B)@AE: Learn to use metagaming. Also, it's claiming time for you.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Archmage Eternal (7) - Cyan, Zchinque, AsianInvasion, Syrenz, Talore, joboman, zindabad
loran16 (2) - Axelrod, TACKY
TACKY (2) - loran16, ced395
Zchinque (1) - RobRoy
Dancing Mad (1) - StormBlind
StormBlind (1) - kpaca
joboman (1) - Archmage Eternal
Falkonn (1) - vezokpiraka
With 21 Goo alive, it’s 11 Goo to Lynch.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
Unless I'm mistaken, a claim of said abilites would be risky at best.
But it's good to know how people reacted to it.
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
You do realize good players (and there are some in this game), can seem town....................but actually be scum :o.
Shocking I know.
Lets get this shabang on the road. Geeze.
why do you say "Geeze" here?
Joboman, Paranoid Noob Town RRRU
Mafia Record:
5-1-2 (Alignment)
1-6-3 (wins/incomplete/lose)
unvote: Vote Cyan.
Looks like the same sort of business as Indiana Jones mafia to me. Of course I imagine most of you dont' even read my posts anymore.