My Season 4 thread went over fairly well, so here we go now that I'm back onto MTGS halfway into Season 5
Pretty impressed so far. I can deal with the ways they're differing from the books.
-Episode 1 "The Wars To Come"-
"Decent start to season"
3/5
Most of the episode seemed slow. Also, the episode tried to cut between too many different things. I wonder how necessary that was to get things started.
The recap seemed to have everything major from last season.
It took me a short time to realize the opening scene was a flashback to Cersei and Maggy the Frog, so well done on the ambiguity in setitng that up. What's this about Robert having 20 kids instead of 16? Seems like a pointless show difference.
The Unsullied still wanting affection is touching, and adds something of a plot dimension to the nude scenes. I also thought this about Grey Worm/Missandei.
So Brienne misses out on Sansa as well, not that she could have done anything about Petyr's men, but it was still a worthy parallel.
The highlight of the episode was Varys explaining things to Tyrion, followed closely by most of the Jon's scenes. Actually showing Mance's execution seems somewhat superfluous given that he had already chosen his fate in the conversation with Jon.
Still good to be back.
-Episode 2 "The House of Black and White"-
5/5
"Season getting up to speed quickly"
Maisie's acting and the Braavos setpieces were superb. (including the Braavos emphasis in the opening sequence).
And then Brienne? They're really bringing it with the fan favorite characters. More bad luck for her in the Stark girl quest. Why didn't Brienne stay with Littlefinger? That being said, the cavalry combat was awesome.
The Myrcella in Dorne plot seems to be going somewhere with all of the people involved. Ellaria represents the hotheaded Dornish well compared to Doran keeping his cool.
Varys-Tyrion and Jon were great in this episode too in the screentime they got. Some book moments set at the Wall were represented well - Lyanna's response to Stannis, Stannis talking about legitimizing Jon, and the Lord Commander election. Just three candidates was a great way to simplify the election while maintaining the major themes. Shireen was great in her various interactions. I liked simple practice books versus regular material as two ways of learning how to read.
Kevan telling off Cersei was great - where's the lie? Also, it's a good indicator of the current King's Landing political situation.
I am reminded of Robb's decision to execute Rickard Karstark for killing the Lannister prisoners - the high-minded thing to do was ridiculously impractical. In the Mereen scenes, the different counsel did a great job at representing what's going on.
Drogon's appearance was a great way to end the episode on a high note.
No excessive cuts between scenes like the last episode.
-Episode 3 "High Sparrow"-
5/5
"Great mix of faithful adaptation and changes"
The floor cleaning as training reminded me of The Karate Kid. I liked the recall to 'there is one god, and his name is death'.
I liked Tommen/Margaery in the s4e4 flirting, so I loved their wedding night and Margaery japing about it. The vows reminded me of Robb/Talisa from s2e10, so they're likely a standard feature of the Faith of the Seven.
I don't know why they're changing Ramsay/fake Arya to Ramsay/Sansa, but I'll see where that goes. The Littlefinger and Roose scenes later make the change seem like new opportunities for scheming, fair enough. I've long since stopped criticizing the show for differing from the books. Still, is HBO trying to find something even creepier than Peytr/Sansa? "Wherever Littlefinger is slithering around" - great line, Cersei!
It seems Stannis will waste no time in marching on Winterfell. I like the apparent speedup in that regard.
Roose talking sense into Ramsay about the over the top barbarism was a great illustration of both their characters.
Brienne's backstory, Arya's training, Janos' execution and the arrival of the sparrows were much as I remember from the book, represented well here.
The comments about the Castle Black latrine pit was an amusing addition. I thoguht Jon would have stuck Alliser with that, but the First Ranger promotion seems like a good example of being gracious.
The High Sparrow exposition worked well. That being near the end of the episode helped make the episode fit its title. It sounds like the show is imprisoning rather than killing the High Septon.
Tyrion and Varys arguing was a great mix of amusement and seriousness. I liked hearing about the popularity of Daenerys. From a meta perspective, it kept her involved without making the episode busy with too many scenes.
The Tyrion capture was a great cliffhanger.
-Episode 4 "Sons of the Harpy"-
5/5
"Keeps up the pace"
Gazing wistfully at Tarth, I see, Jaime; nice hint at his feelings for Brienne.
Bronn's attitude is great when talking to Jaime as well as Tyrion. The death conversation reminds me of Tyrion's jape to the mountain clans. "in my own bed, at eighty, with a belly full of wine and a maiden's mouth around my ****." I was surprised by them fighting off the Dornish soldiers rather than escaping or negotiating. The Sand Snakes making plans against them seems like a good counterweight and a good setup for future events.
Why did the show leave out that rearming the Faith Militant was repayment of the Iron Throne's church debt? I don't recall the fanatics going nuts on sinners outside the church, but it makes sense. I was reminded of Prohibition enforcer scenes. The anti-sex and especially anti-gay actions? Well, that escalated quickly. I figure Loras' arrest mainly highlights the lengths Tommen will go to for Margaery. I don't blame him for not starting a fight with the Faith. Carving the seven-pointed star into their skin is very oldschool, reminds me of lore aobut the Andal invasion.
Stannis saying Ned wouldn't have a bastard by a tavern **** seems like an R+L=J hint. Melisandre trying to seduce Jon seems like a salacious extension of how he stubbornly resists temptation. I noticed that her skin seemed to be an unnatural color.
There were some good exposition scenes - describing the Isle of Tarth, Littlefinger explaining the Tourney at Harrenhal to Sansa, and Tyrion analyzing Jorah's motives. The Shireen scene discussing her bout with greyscale seemed about as touching as one can expect from Stannis.
Again, the episode namesake shows up near the end. Interesting pattern. I knew Barristan needed to show up in time. Who actually survives and how Daenerys reacts seems like the cliffhanger.
-Episode 5 "Kill the Boy"-
4/5
"Deviated from the books fairly well"
I was surprised Barristan actually died. Narratively, it seems like motivation for a long in coming crackdown in Mereen. Daenerys' comments about her dragons (discipline but not give up, not feed them too much) seem apropos for Mothers' Day.
Jon catching hell for allying with the wildlings against the Others was a book theme represented will if not in exact detail.
Brienne still seems very in character on this non-book mission.
Did Ramsay's sadism really need to be sexually charged? However, he did have some amusing comments about his betrothal to Sansa.
Did Miranda find one of the Stark direwolves for Sansa? As such, I was surprised to see Theon. I thought Ramsay was going to physically torture Theon, buy making him apologize for the meeting seems like an avenue of mental abuse.
Frankly, I liked Ramsay's Fat Walda jokes; they fit with Ramsay's attitude. "A new man, well, a new person" was another great example of Ramsay's cruel wit.
Maybe a legitimate heir as a threat to Ramsay is an analogue to Domeric from the books. Roose talking about Ramsay's backstory was more good exposition.
Sam and Gilly had an interesting conversation about book compared to non-book knowledge. Stannis seems to respect Randyll and Sam separately, Sam becase Stannis and Sam both take the Others seriously.
Jorah and Tyrion sailing through Valyria was another well executed difference from the books. Was it a chance for exposition of the Doom? It was interest how it was presented as the opposite of pirates as in the books. It made sense that they didn't get out of that scott-free.
I knew Grey Worm was going to say his fear had something to do with Missandei. I like the ship and was glad to see the dialogue actually go that way. Likewise, I totally saw Mel giving Jon the eye (as Stannis' forces leave). I don't ship Jon/Mel yet, but I'm intrigued by the possibility.
Dany's decision near the end is a sudden return to the book narrative that feels unexplained in-character.
As far as episode 1, I feel like the execution scene was necessary for the purpose of showing Jon's respect for the wildlings. We know that he respects them too much to let their leader burn to death, but the rest of the Night's Watch and wildlings didn't. Showing mercy can increase the rift between him and the crows who already doubted him as well as removing some of the doubt the wildlings had about his willingness to help them.
Brienne didn't stay with Littlefinger because she knows better. He told her to leave and if she followed too closely, he's not above just having her killed in her sleep.
In episode 3 Jon's first acts as Lord commander showed a lot about his leadership. He knows Alliser is one of the best men he's got and mistreating him would make a few enemies and be a horrible plan since he needs to be ready for the walkers. The execution was great for 2 reasons: it shows his resolve as leader and it avenges Ned's death because (even though Jon didn't know it) Janos is the one who betrayed him when he tried to expose Cersei.
Not gonna lie, I teared up a little when Dany saw Drogon again.
I'm really excited/scared to see where they go with the Sansa/Ramsay storyline. I have some ideas but I'll wait for the answer to my next question...
I wasn't a part of the last thread, so how much is speculation allowed? Since the show is deviating so much it opens up a lot more room for speculation and that is one of my favorite things about the new season. It's not just a question of which book spoilers will be realized, but actual guesswork on the storyline moving forward.
I wasn't a part of the last thread, so how much is speculation allowed? Since the show is deviating so much it opens up a lot more room for speculation and that is one of my favorite things about the new season. It's not just a question of which book spoilers will be realized, but actual guesswork on the storyline moving forward.
In Television very little unfortunately. With previous seasons there have been cases where people who have read the books have spoiled things that aren't as clear in the TV series and ruined it for those people whoes first exposure to the A Song of Ice and Fire is this Series.
If people wish to discuss the books and the changes that are being made with the series I am perfectly happy for a thread to be created in Printed Media Forum.
But this Thread is just for the discussion of the HBO Series.
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and start slitting throats.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
This is not an accusation, just a request/reminder to please make absolutely certain you're not spoiling any future plot-lines if discussing differences between the TV show and the books. Thanks.
Episode 3 has been my favorite of this season so far. I really liked the mirror images of Jon and Dany deciding to execute someone in the name of justice, and getting exact opposite reactions from the people around them. The crowd immediately turning on Dany, while in Jon's case it bought him more respect from even his enemies. All the scenes this season between Ser Davos, Jon, and Stannis have been excellent. Tommen seems like a decent kid, but he's so clueless, he'll be dead by end of season for sure (IMHO).
Episode 4, They're making it very obvious that Dany has some shortcomings as a ruler in Mereen, which is good. She's very clever and creative, but she doesn't seem to have a mind for politics in the same way that certain others characters do. Nice that Varys and/or Tyrion are heading her way as either of them should be able to help her in that regard. Sorry Daario, but I still don't trust you.
Episode 5, Poor Jorah, again. Dany deciding to marry that guy was a definite wtf? moment. Though definite credit for it being a path that none of her advisers would have seen (since most of them want to marry her themselves). The stuff with Sansa, although apparently different from the books, has the potential to be the best storyline this season. There are some real juicy possibilities right now with the number of characters hanging around between Winterfell and the The Wall.
In Television very little unfortunately. With previous seasons there have been cases where people who have read the books have spoiled things that aren't as clear in the TV series and ruined it for those people whoes first exposure to the A Song of Ice and Fire is this Series.
If people wish to discuss the books and the changes that are being made with the series I am perfectly happy for a thread to be created in Printed Media Forum.
But this Thread is just for the discussion of the HBO Series.
Ok, I haven't read the books, but I know one or two events that happen moving forward but can't occur as written because of the characters involved so I'll refrain from anything extrapolating from those. Trying to guess what will happen next has always been one of my favorite parts of TV discussions, but I understand that it can be a dangerous line since it's still catching up with the books (for this season at least).
Would it be allowed to speculate on events solely from the information in the series? Specifically, I wonder what Dany will do moving forward without Barristan to advise her. I'm really interested in what will happen with Tyrion when/if they finally get to Mereen and how they're going to handle Jorah's Greyscale since neither of those can really be spoiled by book readers.
This is the last I'll speak of it if it's not okay.
Dany's decision near the end is a sudden return to the book narrative that feels unexplained in-character.
I don't think it's unexplained, she knows how royal politics works and she always valued Selmy's opinion on the matter.
Marriage to a noble is the most logical way to appeal to the Mereenese nobility since it's been suggested that they are the ones employing the Sons of the Harpy. There needs to be some incentive for them to stop their attacks because she knows she can't afford to lose more men to them and random massacres have never been good for morale. She's also aware of the truth concerning her father's nature so she wants to be cautious that she doesn't end up becoming the Mad Queen, and that means making compromises when it doesn't directly undermine her authority.
Brienne didn't stay with Littlefinger because she knows better. He told her to leave and if she followed too closely, he's not above just having her killed in her sleep.
The execution was great for 2 reasons: it shows his resolve as leader and it avenges Ned's death because (even though Jon didn't know it) Janos is the one who betrayed him when he tried to expose Cersei.
It was great to see Jon deal with Slynt. Even if the characters don't know it, letting the audience see a Stark take revenge on Ned's betrayer was extremely satisfying.
The character work with Littlefinger has been great too. He is just so good at playing people without looking like he's playing them. I loved both his talk with Sansa about marrying Ramsay, and their talk about the jousting tournament.
Edit: Also wanted to get in that as evil as Cersei often seems there have been a couple scenes in the show where I thought she might have been trying to turn over a new leaf. One was first season when she came to Ned in the garden to try and get him to drop his investigation. Another was this season with Margery when Margery made the crack about wine in front of everyone. Some great character stuff and I love the idea that whenever she tries to take the high road it never works out and just pushes her even further in the other direction.
Brienne didn't stay with Littlefinger because she knows better. He told her to leave and if she followed too closely, he's not above just having her killed in her sleep.
The execution was great for 2 reasons: it shows his resolve as leader and it avenges Ned's death because (even though Jon didn't know it) Janos is the one who betrayed him when he tried to expose Cersei.
Edit: Also wanted to get in that as evil as Cersei often seems there have been a couple scenes in the show where I thought she might have been trying to turn over a new leaf. One was first season when she came to Ned in the garden to try and get him to drop his investigation. Another was this season with Margery when Margery made the crack about wine in front of everyone. Some great character stuff and I love the idea that whenever she tries to take the high road it never works out and just pushes her even further in the other direction.
I don't think that's an issue of her turning a new leaf. In both of those cases she was in a position where her normal "mega *****" personality wouldn't have done any good. If she had just snapped off at Ned, he wouldn't have given her any warning to get her family out before he told. Now that her son is married to Margery, she has to make some attempt at an alliance because now one of the few people she actually cares about is (literally) in bed with someone she was previously trying to scare. She knows how much influence Margery can have on him now so she wanted to get on her good side. Since that didn't work, the Sparrows are now armed and her brother's been arrested. She's tried to appear friendly with people who she thought she could manipulate but could fight back, like with Margery's dad who could fund another war if Cersei threatened him like she did with his daughter in Season 4.
Edit: Also wanted to get in that as evil as Cersei often seems there have been a couple scenes in the show where I thought she might have been trying to turn over a new leaf. One was first season when she came to Ned in the garden to try and get him to drop his investigation. Another was this season with Margery when Margery made the crack about wine in front of everyone. Some great character stuff and I love the idea that whenever she tries to take the high road it never works out and just pushes her even further in the other direction.
I don't think that's an issue of her turning a new leaf. In both of those cases she was in a position where her normal "mega *****" personality wouldn't have done any good. If she had just snapped off at Ned, he wouldn't have given her any warning to get her family out before he told. Now that her son is married to Margery, she has to make some attempt at an alliance because now one of the few people she actually cares about is (literally) in bed with someone she was previously trying to scare. She knows how much influence Margery can have on him now so she wanted to get on her good side. Since that didn't work, the Sparrows are now armed and her brother's been arrested. She's tried to appear friendly with people who she thought she could manipulate but could fight back, like with Margery's dad who could fund another war if Cersei threatened him like she did with his daughter in Season 4.
You're right, "turn over a new leaf" is too strong and not really what I meant to say. More that it was an attempt by her to put her ego aside and make peace when she didn't have to. She didn't have to be nice to Margery (as evidenced by what is happening now) and I think if Margery hadn't spat it back in her face, things could have gone very differently, since their goals are similar (ie Tommen on the throne). I think that if Margery had been willing to play nice, Cersei would have too even though she hates her guts.
This is not an accusation, just a request/reminder to please make absolutely certain you're not spoiling any future plot-lines if discussing differences between the TV show and the books. Thanks.
Episode 3 has been my favorite of this season so far. I really liked the mirror images of Jon and Dany deciding to execute someone in the name of justice, and getting exact opposite reactions from the people around them. The crowd immediately turning on Dany, while in Jon's case it bought him more respect from even his enemies. All the scenes this season between Ser Davos, Jon, and Stannis have been excellent. Tommen seems like a decent kid, but he's so clueless, he'll be dead by end of season for sure (IMHO).
He's clueless but I don't see him dying in anything short of a coupe. Naivety is dangerous in King's landing, but since he's in a position of power, I think people would be more likely to keep him alive as a puppet than try to overthrow him outright. This is probably why Cersei is trying so hard to shrink the small council. She wants to keep her authority through him and doesn't want to risk someone else getting close to him to do the same. He's very valuable as an asset but he's a dangerous target because of the risk associated with killing the King so the people in power behind him have a reason to keep him safe.
You're right, "turn over a new leaf" is too strong and not really what I meant to say. More that it was an attempt by her to put her ego aside and make peace when she didn't have to. She didn't have to be nice to Margery (as evidenced by what is happening now) and I think if Margery hadn't spat it back in her face, things could have gone very differently, since their goals are similar (ie Tommen on the throne). I think that if Margery had been willing to play nice, Cersei would have too even though she hates her guts.
I agree with that. They both want to control Tommen, but Margery doesn't (shouldn't) trust Cersei enough to be allies. Cersei would definitely have tried to play nice with Margery, but Margery has more control over Tommen now that they're married and wants to push her advantage. If anything the scene between the two strengthened her resolve because it means Cersei acknowledged how much power she really has now.
Well, that happened.... There has been a Red Wedding level of anger over the last scene in the hours following it airing, which is warranted, but not that surprising for Ramsay (let's just be glad it wasn't as bad as the book scene appears to have been). I was honestly more shocked at the inquest scene, at least Theon has an excuse for not having a pair, Tommen actually held back the kings guard when they tried to defend Margery and just watched her be taken away. I really enjoyed the scene with granny Tyrell and Cersei though, I can definitely see another war brewing and the Lannisters don't have enough resources to fight the Tyrells.
Honestly not sure what Little Finger is up to right now. It looks like he's either betraying Sansa and using his own men to prove himself or he's intentionally keeping the southern armies away from Winterfell. He won't be welcome in the north so trying to take winterfell by order of the Lannisters seems risky, even for him.
I'm kind of excited to see how Tyrion and Jorah is going to work out. There was a bit of a moment between the two when Tyrion was informing him about what happened in westeros, including his father's death, I'm actually kind of worried about the future if Jorah survives and ever meets Jon what will happen. Tyrion was unsurprisingly quick to convince the slavers to carry them the rest of the way to Mereen so I'm glad things appear to be working out on that end.
Overall this season has been really slow, there seems to be a lot more time devoted to character development, but 10 episodes doesn't really give enough time for that and the storyline hasn't really moved a whole lot. It feels like they need to do a lot in the next 4 episodes to actually tie anything off before the season ends. I really don't want to wait until next year for the Mannis to make it to winterfell or Tyrion to meet the queen.
I'm judging the TV show on its own moreso than comparing it to the books, so that should help me stay within the confines of this thread.
Maybe some things make more sense than I thought.
Yeah, maybe Daenerys' decision near the end makes sense in the show for the same reasons as in the books.
4/5
"Certainly moves the story along, interesting angles on it"
No wonder Arya's getting frustrated with the chores and the secrets. I wonder what's with that other girl. The scrubbing makes me think the FM's are morticians. Arya's visitor emphasizes the mercy-killing angle.
Jorah's pause and facial expression made clear he cared about his father even though he tried to move the conversation along. By contrast, he spells out his awe for Daenerys. Tyrion pointing out that she's never been to Westeros and simply had a blood claim through a madman was a great way to work in some commentary I've seen to that extent. So they run into slavers, but why did they have to be black? Tyrion talking his way out of dire trouble reminds me of his initial encounter with the mountain clans, including the jape. (Dwarf-sized ****?) "Guess again!"
It seems the Petyr-Cersei scheming is still in the brainstorming stage.
I sure do like Trystane/Myrcella.
Well, I liked the Jaime-Bronn v. Sand Snakes; I didn't expect Areo and his men to show up.
Olenna's wit sure is great. I'm really not sure how much Cersei had to do with Loras' arrest. Maybe an acquittal of Loras is the best way to resolve this. I wonder why Olyvar decided to fess up. Maybe this was used as a way to lead to Margaery's arrest.
* As in ep4, I don't blame Tommen for not starting a fight with the Faith.
Maybe Petyr's idea with Ramsay/Sansa is partially to make him look good by comparison. Like Joffrey, Ramsay can be good at pretending to be civil. As with the book, though the wedding was a cruel farce, I liked the portrayal of old gods wedding rites. The cinematography was ridiculously dark. I suspect that was a bad workaround to Sophie Turner not wanting to show nudity. I knew something really bad was going to happen to her, it was just a matter of details, so I'm not as shocked as some fans. Focusing on Theon's crying seems like the manpain stereotype. That did emphasize my thoughts that Sansa might snap Theon out of the Reek brainwashing.
I could tell Aemon was sick and dying, and the baby provided a circle of life counterpoint. Sam's eulogy was a favorite powerful moment.
The Theon-Sansa scene certainly emphasizes the idea of her breaking the Reek torture, versus Reek trying to draw her further in. It's interesting how Ramsay can't be as over-the-top in public but is still undeniably evil. It is unclear where a legitimized bastard falls in the line of succession, good job referencing that canon technicality.
I figured Stannis' march in this weather was foolhardy, but he has an interesting point about how it will only get worse and they don't have time to wait it out. Good for him refusing to tolerate the threat to Shireen; Melisandre by trying that apparently doesn't know him perfectly.
The Gilly-threatening scene seems like a gratuitous addition to the books, but it would be a threat to one of the few women on the Wall. Sam showing up and Gilly's response to him seemed a bit too much like the usual damsel in distress routine.
Daario/Daenerys sexposition still seems to work.
Olenna confronting the High Sparrow highlighted how being sincere mean's he's harder to manipulate, as well as populism being a threat to the nobility. I liked the bit of old-people bonding about bad joints.
I feel Cersei means the devoted mother talk to Tommen; that is one of her positive traits. I understand his frustration, especially since I like Tommen/Margaery.
The Sand Snake scene illustrates how they're both sexual and powerful. The show may as well make clear that Bronn was poisoned, and give details on the poison. The antidote was a good way to not end his storyline too soon.
Daenerys' dismay with the fighting pit display showed even before she said anything, very expressive on her part. I was put off by the gore as well. I liked the cliffhanger about what she's going to do with Jorah and Tyrion. Interesting narrative structure to not put the big moment at the very end, as this show often does with episodes and seasons.
High sparrow may be one of my favorite characters this season. He's a fanatic, but he's probably the only genuine character in King's Landing that isn't an idiot (Sorry Ned, but you are way too trusting). I really liked the arrest scene at the end and pretty much every interaction where the big players are trying to figure out what his ulterior motive is since they refuse to believe that anyone isn't just out for themselves. (My favorite part was Cersei's "I'm the queen!", because she saw how effective that was for Margery.)
I'm a little disappointed in myself for falling for it, but after the Tommen scene, I actually kinda believed Cersei would consider helping Margery after seeing how much it hurt him. It was a little painful seeing Margery finally lose her cool.
I really want to see where Tyrion/Dany is going, I'm not sure I can wait another week for that.
The only part of the Winterfell action that surprised me was that Ramsay just happened to be hanging out in the tower. He even said that the old woman didn't live long enough to tell him anything so it doesn't make sense that he knew what the plan was.
The only part of the Winterfell action that surprised me was that Ramsay just happened to be hanging out in the tower. He even said that the old woman didn't live long enough to tell him anything so it doesn't make sense that he knew what the plan was.
Ramsay wasn't in the tower, Theon never went to the tower, he went straight to see Ramsay. Ramsay didn't outsmart anyone. It was a kind-of-but-not-really fake-out. As Theon is walking through the courtyard you see him look at the broken tower in the distance, and then walk away from it. Then after Theon told Ramsay, Ramsay killed the woman to send a message to Sansa. Theon is still very much broken and under Ramsay's control.
The only part of the Winterfell action that surprised me was that Ramsay just happened to be hanging out in the tower. He even said that the old woman didn't live long enough to tell him anything so it doesn't make sense that he knew what the plan was.
Ramsay wasn't in the tower, Theon never went to the tower, he went straight to see Ramsay. Ramsay didn't outsmart anyone. It was a kind-of-but-not-really fake-out. As Theon is walking through the courtyard you see him look at the broken tower in the distance, and then walk away from it. Then after Theon told Ramsay, Ramsay killed the woman to send a message to Sansa. Theon is still very much broken and under Ramsay's control.
That makes sense. I thought he had gone to the tower. He looked a little startled when he opened the door and saw Ramsay so I had assumed he went to the tower and was caught, but I guess that's more of a reflex for him at this point.
I'm not surprised Sansa's rescue plan didn't work, so I didn't think about the details.
4/5
"Only a few dull moments"
When this episode was good, it was great, but there were a few slow and/or repetitive scenes.
Tyrion and Daenerys meeting at length was great, him talking up everybody involved. It seems Daenerys is limited by her past actions. I was especially pleased by Tyrion's "are you worthy of *me*?" attitude. There was a great point about harshness to control worse from one's people, in addition to the practical theme of how if Daenerys wants Westeros, she needs knowledge of it.
Theon revealing the Bran and Rickon deception seems like progression in Sansa getting through to Reek. I'm glad to see that.
The King's Landing politicking seemed bland especially compared to everything else that was going on.
The Bolton tactical discussion seems like an example of Roose being sensible while Ramsay is anything but. Did we really need more of that? However, I'm looking forward to seeing what's going on with Ramsay's 20-man plan.
Was it necessary to reiterate Olly's distrust of the wildlings? Illustrating wildling dismay for the Night's Watch makes sense both in character and as a production decision. It seems Jon, Tormund and the rest did as well as they could convincing the residents of Hardhome, and did apparently save some of them. There was a great point about moving past your ancestors' animosity for the sake of your children.
Ironically, while the wildling costumes were clearly rough, they looked kind of like modern winter camouflage.
The battle scene was something else. As usual, it was rather confusing what was going on. Is that an aspect of realism that doesn't work for storytelling? I thought Valyrian steel might do something to White Walkers, but how come nothing is said about that?
Theon revealing the Bran and Rickon deception seems like progression in Sansa getting through to Reek. I'm glad to see that.
I'm hoping this marks a turning point in Sansa becoming a badass. We've seen her get beaten down and slowly learn to survive and play the game a tiny bit over five seasons while her whole world was destroyed. Now that she knows her brothers are still alive hopefully it provides the motivation to quit being so sullen and start playing to win. She also now knows that she has allies available (Brienne, Jon, the Northerners in general, maybe Theon) if she can find a way to leverage their help. Should be interesting to see what they do with Stannis at Winterfell, especially with Brienne in the area who is both sworn to serve Sansa and sworn to kill Stannis.
I also get the distinct impression that Ramsay would not be too upset if Roos were to kick the bucket now that he's been legitimized and there is the threat of a potential rival in his unborn brother. It would work out very well for Ramsay if Roos were to die during the siege and Ramsay's step-mother then had an "unfortunate accident".
So burning Stannis' camp is what Ramsay had in mind. As mcuh as I hate him, I have to admire the work. It seems like a legitimiate act of war smartly executed. Stannis sounds overly demanding of the Watch, but that does seem like his best option. I do like Davos-Shireen interaction. This gives me the impression that it has to do with Davos having sons but not daughters.
I take Sam's side that Jon did save some, what I thought as it happened during the end of last episode.
I like Doran seeing sense, though I'm tempted to be angry like Ellaria. What was with the Sand Snake slapping game? Ellaria talking to Jaime about taboo relationships is a fitting analogy; maybe it's supposed to be a little offputting because of incest taboo even today. Ellaria also has an interesting poinjt about how the standards change.
I had no idea they would actually burn Shireen. Stannis was dead set against the idea before, and it isn't clear why he'd change his mind even given the extenuating circumstances. So that doesn't make sense. Maybe he was trying to get Davos out of the way.
The fighting pit combat and analysis thereof was great. I didn't see a hapry attack coming, but that actually makes sense. I figured a dragon was Daenerys' way out.
Stannis no.... I was nervous when he sent Davos away, Stannis knows he's the only person with the guts to actually stop him from doing something like this.
I liked the night's watch scene, I half expected Alliser to open fire on them though. If Jon and the wildlings are able to convince the Night's Watch of what happened at hardholm, it might go a long way towards regaining their support.
I enjoyed Arya's scene when she saw Maryn Trant, a little surprised "jaqen" didn't confront her about the assassination she was supposed to do though. He's better at seeing her lies than that. He might know how much it means to her and wants her to get it out of the way since her list is the reason she came to him in the first place.
The Danny scene was great, I enjoyed seeing how quickly daario got shut up when his favorite lost the fight. My only real issue with this is that there is no reason for Jorah to have survived that, that was just a dumb move on the spear guy's part to kill Jorah's opponent when waiting 2 seconds would yield the same result, except he wouldn't have to fight an additional opponent (don't get me wrong, I'm glad he made it, but at least let him earn the win instead of being conveniently saved at the last second just because the other competitor got impatient, the crowd was right to boo him). The Drogon scene might have been my favorite this season, if not the entire series. Seeing him protect her and carry her off was amazing, I feel like this may be a step towards her unchaining the other 2 which would undoubtedly improve her authority as queen against the sons of the harpy. Was also surprised to see them attacking the nobles in the audience, that raises a lot of questions about who their leader(s) might be if they'd attack nobles as readily as slaves and Daenarys's soldiers.
Stannis no.... I was nervous when he sent Davos away, Stannis knows he's the only person with the guts to actually stop him from doing something like this.
Yeah Stannis knew exactly what he was doing there. He knew he was about to damn himself and that Davos would try to stop him. Looking back it seems obvious now that this was always what was going to happen. Stannis' storyline ever since we first met him has been all about a tug of war for his soul between Melisandre and Davos, and willingly executing his own daughter was always going to be the decision on which it all rested. Looking back I feel like it couldn't have gone any other way really. Once he started in with Melisandre, this was always what was going to happen.
I liked the night's watch scene, I half expected Alliser to open fire on them though. If Jon and the wildlings are able to convince the Night's Watch of what happened at hardholm, it might go a long way towards regaining their support.
I enjoy the characterization and acting of Ser Alliser because I'm still not sure what side he's going to ultimately fall on. His sense of duty allows him to justify either supporting Jon or betraying him. Is he the hardened, cynical veteran who comes to respect Jon's instincts even though he dislikes him? or is he a selfish bastard just waiting for the right opportunity to finally betray him?
I enjoyed Arya's scene when she saw Maryn Trant, a little surprised "jaqen" didn't confront her about the assassination she was supposed to do though. He's better at seeing her lies than that. He might know how much it means to her and wants her to get it out of the way since her list is the reason she came to him in the first place.
This is one place I think the show could have done a much better job. I forgot Trant was on Arya's list (I'm not even sure the show ever actually says that he is on her list) for killing Syrio. Once I looked it up it adds a lot more weight to those scenes.
It seems that Jon had done well with pacifying Alliser, but Thorne could just be playing nice.
So Arya found one of her enemies in Braavos, great, but the part about him picking such a young prostitute seemed unnecessary.
I kept waiting for Stannis to stop it, only to see Selsye's futile attempt. The scene seems to be just enough of a cliffhanger. Well, with Renly, he was already a kinslayer via Melisandre. It was certainly one of the more shocking things I've seen from this series.
At least Stannis seems to be deeply regretting THAT, and it has indeed caused consequences for morale, and his relationship with Melisandre is fraying. An attack seems even more foolhardy now, but his depseration comes off well.
So Sam's going to Oldtown, good for him. I liked how that scene showed both his friendship with Jon and his feelings for Gilly and baby Sam.
I'm glad the big battle came early in the episode. Charging out to meet the attackers is certainly one way to deal with a siege. It seems Stannis would have been done for even with the men who deserted. Where did the Boltons get all that cavalry from, though? Especially with the mutineers, Stannis was near death anyway, so Brienne executing him is almost a mercy killing. Ramsay murdering a prisoner of war doesn't stand out by his standards, maybe that's the point of that scene.
I wondered what was going on with Sansa, apparently running into Myranda. I figured Sansa had plot armor for staying alive at least, but I wasn't sure what else was going to happen. So the threats at bowpoint are what get Reek to snap. About time! Splat!
The beared man hitting those girls seemed unnecessary even when eventually revealed as one of Arya's targets. However, the temple scene afterwards highlighted well Arya's tension between her desire for revenge and the rules of the Faceless Men.
Jaime seemed out of character, but confessing his big open secret might do that. Ah, so Ellaria's goodbye kiss wasn't just overly personal. Wicked.
All of the Meereen banter was great, including a frank discussion of everybody's strengths and weaknesses. It seems Jorah and Daario were framed as a literal triangle with the throne. "Toughest man with no balls I ever met" LOL.
What was with Drogon being uncooperative? Tired from eating too much? Man, that khalasar came out of nowhere. I wonder what's up with them and what's going to happen to Daenerys now. The horde looked epic.
It seemed Cersei's begging for foregiveness was insincere, but it was reasonable that she was willing to give in. The High Sparrow seemed to find it convient that she didn't admit to the affair with Jaime. She sure faced the public humiliation weith incredible resolve. The Faith Militant did well protecting her from the alternatingly jeering and horny mob. Frankly, I do understand the latter; she's gorgeous even with a rough short haircut. Was the crop instead of full shave a measure for quickness' sake? I wondered if the red stuff was garbage or blood; it does make sense to at least check for physical injuries. The new Kingsguard member seems like an alright enigma.
I was right aobut how little the force at Castle Black could do for Stannis. It seems Melisandre purposely arrived after Stannis dies and just before Jon got attacked, highlighting his role as her plan B. Ah, so the rumors of Benjen were a ruse to draw Jon into a trap. Well, that's one hell of a cliffhanger to end the season on, a fitting end to an intense episode.
Pretty impressed so far. I can deal with the ways they're differing from the books.
-Episode 1 "The Wars To Come"-
"Decent start to season"
3/5
Most of the episode seemed slow. Also, the episode tried to cut between too many different things. I wonder how necessary that was to get things started.
The recap seemed to have everything major from last season.
It took me a short time to realize the opening scene was a flashback to Cersei and Maggy the Frog, so well done on the ambiguity in setitng that up. What's this about Robert having 20 kids instead of 16? Seems like a pointless show difference.
The Unsullied still wanting affection is touching, and adds something of a plot dimension to the nude scenes. I also thought this about Grey Worm/Missandei.
So Brienne misses out on Sansa as well, not that she could have done anything about Petyr's men, but it was still a worthy parallel.
The highlight of the episode was Varys explaining things to Tyrion, followed closely by most of the Jon's scenes. Actually showing Mance's execution seems somewhat superfluous given that he had already chosen his fate in the conversation with Jon.
Still good to be back.
-Episode 2 "The House of Black and White"-
5/5
"Season getting up to speed quickly"
Maisie's acting and the Braavos setpieces were superb. (including the Braavos emphasis in the opening sequence).
And then Brienne? They're really bringing it with the fan favorite characters. More bad luck for her in the Stark girl quest. Why didn't Brienne stay with Littlefinger? That being said, the cavalry combat was awesome.
The Myrcella in Dorne plot seems to be going somewhere with all of the people involved. Ellaria represents the hotheaded Dornish well compared to Doran keeping his cool.
Varys-Tyrion and Jon were great in this episode too in the screentime they got. Some book moments set at the Wall were represented well - Lyanna's response to Stannis, Stannis talking about legitimizing Jon, and the Lord Commander election. Just three candidates was a great way to simplify the election while maintaining the major themes. Shireen was great in her various interactions. I liked simple practice books versus regular material as two ways of learning how to read.
Kevan telling off Cersei was great - where's the lie? Also, it's a good indicator of the current King's Landing political situation.
I am reminded of Robb's decision to execute Rickard Karstark for killing the Lannister prisoners - the high-minded thing to do was ridiculously impractical. In the Mereen scenes, the different counsel did a great job at representing what's going on.
Drogon's appearance was a great way to end the episode on a high note.
No excessive cuts between scenes like the last episode.
-Episode 3 "High Sparrow"-
5/5
"Great mix of faithful adaptation and changes"
The floor cleaning as training reminded me of The Karate Kid. I liked the recall to 'there is one god, and his name is death'.
I liked Tommen/Margaery in the s4e4 flirting, so I loved their wedding night and Margaery japing about it. The vows reminded me of Robb/Talisa from s2e10, so they're likely a standard feature of the Faith of the Seven.
I don't know why they're changing Ramsay/fake Arya to Ramsay/Sansa, but I'll see where that goes. The Littlefinger and Roose scenes later make the change seem like new opportunities for scheming, fair enough. I've long since stopped criticizing the show for differing from the books. Still, is HBO trying to find something even creepier than Peytr/Sansa? "Wherever Littlefinger is slithering around" - great line, Cersei!
It seems Stannis will waste no time in marching on Winterfell. I like the apparent speedup in that regard.
Roose talking sense into Ramsay about the over the top barbarism was a great illustration of both their characters.
Brienne's backstory, Arya's training, Janos' execution and the arrival of the sparrows were much as I remember from the book, represented well here.
The comments about the Castle Black latrine pit was an amusing addition. I thoguht Jon would have stuck Alliser with that, but the First Ranger promotion seems like a good example of being gracious.
The High Sparrow exposition worked well. That being near the end of the episode helped make the episode fit its title. It sounds like the show is imprisoning rather than killing the High Septon.
Tyrion and Varys arguing was a great mix of amusement and seriousness. I liked hearing about the popularity of Daenerys. From a meta perspective, it kept her involved without making the episode busy with too many scenes.
The Tyrion capture was a great cliffhanger.
-Episode 4 "Sons of the Harpy"-
5/5
"Keeps up the pace"
Gazing wistfully at Tarth, I see, Jaime; nice hint at his feelings for Brienne.
Bronn's attitude is great when talking to Jaime as well as Tyrion. The death conversation reminds me of Tyrion's jape to the mountain clans. "in my own bed, at eighty, with a belly full of wine and a maiden's mouth around my ****." I was surprised by them fighting off the Dornish soldiers rather than escaping or negotiating. The Sand Snakes making plans against them seems like a good counterweight and a good setup for future events.
Why did the show leave out that rearming the Faith Militant was repayment of the Iron Throne's church debt? I don't recall the fanatics going nuts on sinners outside the church, but it makes sense. I was reminded of Prohibition enforcer scenes. The anti-sex and especially anti-gay actions? Well, that escalated quickly. I figure Loras' arrest mainly highlights the lengths Tommen will go to for Margaery. I don't blame him for not starting a fight with the Faith. Carving the seven-pointed star into their skin is very oldschool, reminds me of lore aobut the Andal invasion.
Stannis saying Ned wouldn't have a bastard by a tavern **** seems like an R+L=J hint. Melisandre trying to seduce Jon seems like a salacious extension of how he stubbornly resists temptation. I noticed that her skin seemed to be an unnatural color.
There were some good exposition scenes - describing the Isle of Tarth, Littlefinger explaining the Tourney at Harrenhal to Sansa, and Tyrion analyzing Jorah's motives. The Shireen scene discussing her bout with greyscale seemed about as touching as one can expect from Stannis.
Again, the episode namesake shows up near the end. Interesting pattern. I knew Barristan needed to show up in time. Who actually survives and how Daenerys reacts seems like the cliffhanger.
-Episode 5 "Kill the Boy"-
4/5
"Deviated from the books fairly well"
I was surprised Barristan actually died. Narratively, it seems like motivation for a long in coming crackdown in Mereen. Daenerys' comments about her dragons (discipline but not give up, not feed them too much) seem apropos for Mothers' Day.
Jon catching hell for allying with the wildlings against the Others was a book theme represented will if not in exact detail.
Brienne still seems very in character on this non-book mission.
Did Ramsay's sadism really need to be sexually charged? However, he did have some amusing comments about his betrothal to Sansa.
Did Miranda find one of the Stark direwolves for Sansa? As such, I was surprised to see Theon. I thought Ramsay was going to physically torture Theon, buy making him apologize for the meeting seems like an avenue of mental abuse.
Frankly, I liked Ramsay's Fat Walda jokes; they fit with Ramsay's attitude. "A new man, well, a new person" was another great example of Ramsay's cruel wit.
Maybe a legitimate heir as a threat to Ramsay is an analogue to Domeric from the books. Roose talking about Ramsay's backstory was more good exposition.
Sam and Gilly had an interesting conversation about book compared to non-book knowledge. Stannis seems to respect Randyll and Sam separately, Sam becase Stannis and Sam both take the Others seriously.
Jorah and Tyrion sailing through Valyria was another well executed difference from the books. Was it a chance for exposition of the Doom? It was interest how it was presented as the opposite of pirates as in the books. It made sense that they didn't get out of that scott-free.
I knew Grey Worm was going to say his fear had something to do with Missandei. I like the ship and was glad to see the dialogue actually go that way. Likewise, I totally saw Mel giving Jon the eye (as Stannis' forces leave). I don't ship Jon/Mel yet, but I'm intrigued by the possibility.
Dany's decision near the end is a sudden return to the book narrative that feels unexplained in-character.
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Brienne didn't stay with Littlefinger because she knows better. He told her to leave and if she followed too closely, he's not above just having her killed in her sleep.
In episode 3 Jon's first acts as Lord commander showed a lot about his leadership. He knows Alliser is one of the best men he's got and mistreating him would make a few enemies and be a horrible plan since he needs to be ready for the walkers. The execution was great for 2 reasons: it shows his resolve as leader and it avenges Ned's death because (even though Jon didn't know it) Janos is the one who betrayed him when he tried to expose Cersei.
Not gonna lie, I teared up a little when Dany saw Drogon again.
I'm really excited/scared to see where they go with the Sansa/Ramsay storyline. I have some ideas but I'll wait for the answer to my next question...
I wasn't a part of the last thread, so how much is speculation allowed? Since the show is deviating so much it opens up a lot more room for speculation and that is one of my favorite things about the new season. It's not just a question of which book spoilers will be realized, but actual guesswork on the storyline moving forward.
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In Television very little unfortunately. With previous seasons there have been cases where people who have read the books have spoiled things that aren't as clear in the TV series and ruined it for those people whoes first exposure to the A Song of Ice and Fire is this Series.
If people wish to discuss the books and the changes that are being made with the series I am perfectly happy for a thread to be created in Printed Media Forum.
But this Thread is just for the discussion of the HBO Series.
- H.L Mencken
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Episode 3 has been my favorite of this season so far. I really liked the mirror images of Jon and Dany deciding to execute someone in the name of justice, and getting exact opposite reactions from the people around them. The crowd immediately turning on Dany, while in Jon's case it bought him more respect from even his enemies. All the scenes this season between Ser Davos, Jon, and Stannis have been excellent. Tommen seems like a decent kid, but he's so clueless, he'll be dead by end of season for sure (IMHO).
Episode 4, They're making it very obvious that Dany has some shortcomings as a ruler in Mereen, which is good. She's very clever and creative, but she doesn't seem to have a mind for politics in the same way that certain others characters do. Nice that Varys and/or Tyrion are heading her way as either of them should be able to help her in that regard. Sorry Daario, but I still don't trust you.
Episode 5, Poor Jorah, again. Dany deciding to marry that guy was a definite wtf? moment. Though definite credit for it being a path that none of her advisers would have seen (since most of them want to marry her themselves). The stuff with Sansa, although apparently different from the books, has the potential to be the best storyline this season. There are some real juicy possibilities right now with the number of characters hanging around between Winterfell and the The Wall.
Ok, I haven't read the books, but I know one or two events that happen moving forward but can't occur as written because of the characters involved so I'll refrain from anything extrapolating from those. Trying to guess what will happen next has always been one of my favorite parts of TV discussions, but I understand that it can be a dangerous line since it's still catching up with the books (for this season at least).
This is the last I'll speak of it if it's not okay.
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Marriage to a noble is the most logical way to appeal to the Mereenese nobility since it's been suggested that they are the ones employing the Sons of the Harpy. There needs to be some incentive for them to stop their attacks because she knows she can't afford to lose more men to them and random massacres have never been good for morale. She's also aware of the truth concerning her father's nature so she wants to be cautious that she doesn't end up becoming the Mad Queen, and that means making compromises when it doesn't directly undermine her authority.
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It was great to see Jon deal with Slynt. Even if the characters don't know it, letting the audience see a Stark take revenge on Ned's betrayer was extremely satisfying.
The character work with Littlefinger has been great too. He is just so good at playing people without looking like he's playing them. I loved both his talk with Sansa about marrying Ramsay, and their talk about the jousting tournament.
Edit: Also wanted to get in that as evil as Cersei often seems there have been a couple scenes in the show where I thought she might have been trying to turn over a new leaf. One was first season when she came to Ned in the garden to try and get him to drop his investigation. Another was this season with Margery when Margery made the crack about wine in front of everyone. Some great character stuff and I love the idea that whenever she tries to take the high road it never works out and just pushes her even further in the other direction.
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Honestly not sure what Little Finger is up to right now. It looks like he's either betraying Sansa and using his own men to prove himself or he's intentionally keeping the southern armies away from Winterfell. He won't be welcome in the north so trying to take winterfell by order of the Lannisters seems risky, even for him.
I'm kind of excited to see how Tyrion and Jorah is going to work out. There was a bit of a moment between the two when Tyrion was informing him about what happened in westeros, including his father's death, I'm actually kind of worried about the future if Jorah survives and ever meets Jon what will happen. Tyrion was unsurprisingly quick to convince the slavers to carry them the rest of the way to Mereen so I'm glad things appear to be working out on that end.
Overall this season has been really slow, there seems to be a lot more time devoted to character development, but 10 episodes doesn't really give enough time for that and the storyline hasn't really moved a whole lot. It feels like they need to do a lot in the next 4 episodes to actually tie anything off before the season ends. I really don't want to wait until next year for the Mannis to make it to winterfell or Tyrion to meet the queen.
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Maybe some things make more sense than I thought.
Yeah, maybe Daenerys' decision near the end makes sense in the show for the same reasons as in the books.
4/5
"Certainly moves the story along, interesting angles on it"
No wonder Arya's getting frustrated with the chores and the secrets. I wonder what's with that other girl. The scrubbing makes me think the FM's are morticians. Arya's visitor emphasizes the mercy-killing angle.
Jorah's pause and facial expression made clear he cared about his father even though he tried to move the conversation along. By contrast, he spells out his awe for Daenerys. Tyrion pointing out that she's never been to Westeros and simply had a blood claim through a madman was a great way to work in some commentary I've seen to that extent. So they run into slavers, but why did they have to be black? Tyrion talking his way out of dire trouble reminds me of his initial encounter with the mountain clans, including the jape. (Dwarf-sized ****?) "Guess again!"
It seems the Petyr-Cersei scheming is still in the brainstorming stage.
I sure do like Trystane/Myrcella.
Well, I liked the Jaime-Bronn v. Sand Snakes; I didn't expect Areo and his men to show up.
Olenna's wit sure is great. I'm really not sure how much Cersei had to do with Loras' arrest. Maybe an acquittal of Loras is the best way to resolve this. I wonder why Olyvar decided to fess up. Maybe this was used as a way to lead to Margaery's arrest.
* As in ep4, I don't blame Tommen for not starting a fight with the Faith.
Maybe Petyr's idea with Ramsay/Sansa is partially to make him look good by comparison. Like Joffrey, Ramsay can be good at pretending to be civil. As with the book, though the wedding was a cruel farce, I liked the portrayal of old gods wedding rites. The cinematography was ridiculously dark. I suspect that was a bad workaround to Sophie Turner not wanting to show nudity. I knew something really bad was going to happen to her, it was just a matter of details, so I'm not as shocked as some fans. Focusing on Theon's crying seems like the manpain stereotype. That did emphasize my thoughts that Sansa might snap Theon out of the Reek brainwashing.
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5/5
"Back to speed, bumps in road less severe"
I could tell Aemon was sick and dying, and the baby provided a circle of life counterpoint. Sam's eulogy was a favorite powerful moment.
The Theon-Sansa scene certainly emphasizes the idea of her breaking the Reek torture, versus Reek trying to draw her further in. It's interesting how Ramsay can't be as over-the-top in public but is still undeniably evil. It is unclear where a legitimized bastard falls in the line of succession, good job referencing that canon technicality.
I figured Stannis' march in this weather was foolhardy, but he has an interesting point about how it will only get worse and they don't have time to wait it out. Good for him refusing to tolerate the threat to Shireen; Melisandre by trying that apparently doesn't know him perfectly.
The Gilly-threatening scene seems like a gratuitous addition to the books, but it would be a threat to one of the few women on the Wall. Sam showing up and Gilly's response to him seemed a bit too much like the usual damsel in distress routine.
Daario/Daenerys sexposition still seems to work.
Olenna confronting the High Sparrow highlighted how being sincere mean's he's harder to manipulate, as well as populism being a threat to the nobility. I liked the bit of old-people bonding about bad joints.
I feel Cersei means the devoted mother talk to Tommen; that is one of her positive traits. I understand his frustration, especially since I like Tommen/Margaery.
The Sand Snake scene illustrates how they're both sexual and powerful. The show may as well make clear that Bronn was poisoned, and give details on the poison. The antidote was a good way to not end his storyline too soon.
Daenerys' dismay with the fighting pit display showed even before she said anything, very expressive on her part. I was put off by the gore as well. I liked the cliffhanger about what she's going to do with Jorah and Tyrion. Interesting narrative structure to not put the big moment at the very end, as this show often does with episodes and seasons.
Cersei getting busted seemed bound to happen.
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I'm a little disappointed in myself for falling for it, but after the Tommen scene, I actually kinda believed Cersei would consider helping Margery after seeing how much it hurt him. It was a little painful seeing Margery finally lose her cool.
I really want to see where Tyrion/Dany is going, I'm not sure I can wait another week for that.
The only part of the Winterfell action that surprised me was that Ramsay just happened to be hanging out in the tower. He even said that the old woman didn't live long enough to tell him anything so it doesn't make sense that he knew what the plan was.
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I'm not surprised Sansa's rescue plan didn't work, so I didn't think about the details.
4/5
"Only a few dull moments"
When this episode was good, it was great, but there were a few slow and/or repetitive scenes.
Tyrion and Daenerys meeting at length was great, him talking up everybody involved. It seems Daenerys is limited by her past actions. I was especially pleased by Tyrion's "are you worthy of *me*?" attitude. There was a great point about harshness to control worse from one's people, in addition to the practical theme of how if Daenerys wants Westeros, she needs knowledge of it.
Theon revealing the Bran and Rickon deception seems like progression in Sansa getting through to Reek. I'm glad to see that.
The King's Landing politicking seemed bland especially compared to everything else that was going on.
The Bolton tactical discussion seems like an example of Roose being sensible while Ramsay is anything but. Did we really need more of that? However, I'm looking forward to seeing what's going on with Ramsay's 20-man plan.
Was it necessary to reiterate Olly's distrust of the wildlings? Illustrating wildling dismay for the Night's Watch makes sense both in character and as a production decision. It seems Jon, Tormund and the rest did as well as they could convincing the residents of Hardhome, and did apparently save some of them. There was a great point about moving past your ancestors' animosity for the sake of your children.
Ironically, while the wildling costumes were clearly rough, they looked kind of like modern winter camouflage.
The battle scene was something else. As usual, it was rather confusing what was going on. Is that an aspect of realism that doesn't work for storytelling? I thought Valyrian steel might do something to White Walkers, but how come nothing is said about that?
Vintage: Dredge | Legacy: Burn, Goblins, Soldier | Standard: Mono-Red Aggro
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I also get the distinct impression that Ramsay would not be too upset if Roos were to kick the bucket now that he's been legitimized and there is the threat of a potential rival in his unborn brother. It would work out very well for Ramsay if Roos were to die during the siege and Ramsay's step-mother then had an "unfortunate accident".
Yeah, Sansa being that aggressive helped her get through to Theon. I hadn't thought about it being more widely applicable, but that makes sense.
Stannis' attack on Winterfell is uncharted territory. Yeah, there are a lot of possibilities there.
I figured Ramsay might be threatened by Walda's child and "deal with" her. Didn't think about him doing that to Roose, but maybe.
Vintage: Dredge | Legacy: Burn, Goblins, Soldier | Standard: Mono-Red Aggro
Commander: Nicol Bolas, Sliver Overlord, Rafiq
Casual: Selesnya Saproling Smackdown, Izzet Labs, Rebel
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So burning Stannis' camp is what Ramsay had in mind. As mcuh as I hate him, I have to admire the work. It seems like a legitimiate act of war smartly executed. Stannis sounds overly demanding of the Watch, but that does seem like his best option. I do like Davos-Shireen interaction. This gives me the impression that it has to do with Davos having sons but not daughters.
I take Sam's side that Jon did save some, what I thought as it happened during the end of last episode.
I like Doran seeing sense, though I'm tempted to be angry like Ellaria. What was with the Sand Snake slapping game? Ellaria talking to Jaime about taboo relationships is a fitting analogy; maybe it's supposed to be a little offputting because of incest taboo even today. Ellaria also has an interesting poinjt about how the standards change.
I had no idea they would actually burn Shireen. Stannis was dead set against the idea before, and it isn't clear why he'd change his mind even given the extenuating circumstances. So that doesn't make sense. Maybe he was trying to get Davos out of the way.
The fighting pit combat and analysis thereof was great. I didn't see a hapry attack coming, but that actually makes sense. I figured a dragon was Daenerys' way out.
Vintage: Dredge | Legacy: Burn, Goblins, Soldier | Standard: Mono-Red Aggro
Commander: Nicol Bolas, Sliver Overlord, Rafiq
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I liked the night's watch scene, I half expected Alliser to open fire on them though. If Jon and the wildlings are able to convince the Night's Watch of what happened at hardholm, it might go a long way towards regaining their support.
I enjoyed Arya's scene when she saw Maryn Trant, a little surprised "jaqen" didn't confront her about the assassination she was supposed to do though. He's better at seeing her lies than that. He might know how much it means to her and wants her to get it out of the way since her list is the reason she came to him in the first place.
The Danny scene was great, I enjoyed seeing how quickly daario got shut up when his favorite lost the fight. My only real issue with this is that there is no reason for Jorah to have survived that, that was just a dumb move on the spear guy's part to kill Jorah's opponent when waiting 2 seconds would yield the same result, except he wouldn't have to fight an additional opponent (don't get me wrong, I'm glad he made it, but at least let him earn the win instead of being conveniently saved at the last second just because the other competitor got impatient, the crowd was right to boo him). The Drogon scene might have been my favorite this season, if not the entire series. Seeing him protect her and carry her off was amazing, I feel like this may be a step towards her unchaining the other 2 which would undoubtedly improve her authority as queen against the sons of the harpy. Was also surprised to see them attacking the nobles in the audience, that raises a lot of questions about who their leader(s) might be if they'd attack nobles as readily as slaves and Daenarys's soldiers.
WURMiraclesRWU
UBRCruel ControlRBU
If you're having fun, I'm not.
I enjoy the characterization and acting of Ser Alliser because I'm still not sure what side he's going to ultimately fall on. His sense of duty allows him to justify either supporting Jon or betraying him. Is he the hardened, cynical veteran who comes to respect Jon's instincts even though he dislikes him? or is he a selfish bastard just waiting for the right opportunity to finally betray him?
This is one place I think the show could have done a much better job. I forgot Trant was on Arya's list (I'm not even sure the show ever actually says that he is on her list) for killing Syrio. Once I looked it up it adds a lot more weight to those scenes.
It seems that Jon had done well with pacifying Alliser, but Thorne could just be playing nice.
So Arya found one of her enemies in Braavos, great, but the part about him picking such a young prostitute seemed unnecessary.
I kept waiting for Stannis to stop it, only to see Selsye's futile attempt. The scene seems to be just enough of a cliffhanger. Well, with Renly, he was already a kinslayer via Melisandre. It was certainly one of the more shocking things I've seen from this series.
Vintage: Dredge | Legacy: Burn, Goblins, Soldier | Standard: Mono-Red Aggro
Commander: Nicol Bolas, Sliver Overlord, Rafiq
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Action-packed, intense, only a few downsides
At least Stannis seems to be deeply regretting THAT, and it has indeed caused consequences for morale, and his relationship with Melisandre is fraying. An attack seems even more foolhardy now, but his depseration comes off well.
So Sam's going to Oldtown, good for him. I liked how that scene showed both his friendship with Jon and his feelings for Gilly and baby Sam.
I'm glad the big battle came early in the episode. Charging out to meet the attackers is certainly one way to deal with a siege. It seems Stannis would have been done for even with the men who deserted. Where did the Boltons get all that cavalry from, though? Especially with the mutineers, Stannis was near death anyway, so Brienne executing him is almost a mercy killing. Ramsay murdering a prisoner of war doesn't stand out by his standards, maybe that's the point of that scene.
I wondered what was going on with Sansa, apparently running into Myranda. I figured Sansa had plot armor for staying alive at least, but I wasn't sure what else was going to happen. So the threats at bowpoint are what get Reek to snap. About time! Splat!
The beared man hitting those girls seemed unnecessary even when eventually revealed as one of Arya's targets. However, the temple scene afterwards highlighted well Arya's tension between her desire for revenge and the rules of the Faceless Men.
Jaime seemed out of character, but confessing his big open secret might do that. Ah, so Ellaria's goodbye kiss wasn't just overly personal. Wicked.
All of the Meereen banter was great, including a frank discussion of everybody's strengths and weaknesses. It seems Jorah and Daario were framed as a literal triangle with the throne. "Toughest man with no balls I ever met" LOL.
What was with Drogon being uncooperative? Tired from eating too much? Man, that khalasar came out of nowhere. I wonder what's up with them and what's going to happen to Daenerys now. The horde looked epic.
It seemed Cersei's begging for foregiveness was insincere, but it was reasonable that she was willing to give in. The High Sparrow seemed to find it convient that she didn't admit to the affair with Jaime. She sure faced the public humiliation weith incredible resolve. The Faith Militant did well protecting her from the alternatingly jeering and horny mob. Frankly, I do understand the latter; she's gorgeous even with a rough short haircut. Was the crop instead of full shave a measure for quickness' sake? I wondered if the red stuff was garbage or blood; it does make sense to at least check for physical injuries. The new Kingsguard member seems like an alright enigma.
I was right aobut how little the force at Castle Black could do for Stannis. It seems Melisandre purposely arrived after Stannis dies and just before Jon got attacked, highlighting his role as her plan B. Ah, so the rumors of Benjen were a ruse to draw Jon into a trap. Well, that's one hell of a cliffhanger to end the season on, a fitting end to an intense episode.
Vintage: Dredge | Legacy: Burn, Goblins, Soldier | Standard: Mono-Red Aggro
Commander: Nicol Bolas, Sliver Overlord, Rafiq
Casual: Selesnya Saproling Smackdown, Izzet Labs, Rebel
Played since June 2004, mostly inactive June 2011 to March 2018
Other usernames include AlanFromRochester, homerthebeerbaron
MTG checklists from Alpha to Ravnica Allegiance - https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/other-magic-products/third-party-products/805324-checklists-for-everything-from-alpha-to-ravnica