Thought GOT was back in top form with tonight's new episode.
-Episode 1-
Jaime/Cersei seems especially empty now, for a variety of reasons. In the books I remember being happy to see them back together.
I was reminded that she's getting more horrible, includign being wrongheaded about Jaime's new injury.
Maybe it's because I got more interested in Jaime/Brienne with their scenes late in season 3.
Also, Brienne seems to be getting more screentime in general.
Jon explaining himself to the Night's Watch, Jaime trying to do his best once back in the Kingsguard, and Arya's showdown at the inn are all book moments that the TV show represented well.
It looked like the archery training was part of getting ready for that wildling attack, taking that threat seriously. Also, now it's Jaime's turn instead of Tywin's to deal with Joffrey being Joffrey.
I wish they would at least mention what remains of Daenerys' khalasar in her scenes. Speaking of her, I do think Daario has a practical point about the flowers even though it comes off as trying to woo her.
In s3e10, Arya and Sandor killed some Freys. We didn't see any more of that her ein s4e1, but we didn't see any of Lady Stoneheart/unCatelyn either. Maybe the TV show has added that role to Arya's vengeance mission.
Please if you're going to discuss the TV show, stick to just the TV show, don't include future spoilers from the books. Not everyone has read ahead and some may want to be surprised as things are revealed on the show. Or at least if you're going to do that, please be explicit that your spoilers include things from the books that have not happened on the show yet. ( I know you didn't put much, just wanted to get that out there before it goes any further).
Anyways, I thought it was a good return to form.
I'm liking where things are going in King's Landing. It's interesting how the tables have turned from season 1, and now the Lannisters are the ones put in the position of trying to protect a king who won't listen to anything, rather than being the ones plotting against him. I haven't read ahead so this is just a guess, but I gather that from the exchange between Cersei and Jaime we're supposed to take the hint that Cersei has become pregnant (seeing the doctor regularly and not wanting Jaime to touch her seem like pretty big hints).
Also I don't know if it's been explicitly stated, but with Rob and Catelyn dead, and Bran and Rickon presumed dead, that would make Sansa (ie Tyrion) the current Lord of Winterfell correct?
Damn that Daario trying to woo Daenerys (and her seemingly liking it), doesn't he know that she's supposed to be with Jorah?
Please if you're going to discuss the TV show, stick to just the TV show, don't include future spoilers from the books. Not everyone has read ahead and some may want to be surprised as things are revealed on the show. Or at least if you're going to do that, please be explicit that your spoilers include things from the books that have not happened on the show yet. ( I know you didn't put much, just wanted to get that out there before it goes any further).
Anyways, I thought it was a good return to form.
I'm liking where things are going in King's Landing. It's interesting how the tables have turned from season 1, and now the Lannisters are the ones put in the position of trying to protect a king who won't listen to anything, rather than being the ones plotting against him. I haven't read ahead so this is just a guess, but I gather that from the exchange between Cersei and Jaime we're supposed to take the hint that Cersei has become pregnant (seeing the doctor regularly and not wanting Jaime to touch her seem like pretty big hints).
Also I don't know if it's been explicitly stated, but with Rob and Catelyn dead, and Bran and Rickon presumed dead, that would make Sansa (ie Tyrion) the current Lord of Winterfell correct?
Damn that Daario trying to woo Daenerys (and her seemingly liking it), doesn't he know that she's supposed to be with Jorah?
Since I've read the books, it's natural for me to discuss the TV show with that in mind, and I'll still do that going forward. Okay, I could have been more specific with what I meant by 'spoilers'. Thanks for pointing that out. It's possible to review something without spoilers even when not considering adaptation issues if any, I was simply saying that I don't do that.
Interesting view of what's going on in King's Landing.
I said I had been happy to see Jaime/Cersei back together in the book - they had also been rather more happy to see each other, if you know what I mean.
I did not come to that conclusion about Cersei.
Yes, Sansa is currently the presumed Stark heir, part of the problem with her being married to a Lannister. Catelyn wouldn't be in the Stark succession, but she would've been after Edmure and any legitimate children of his in the Tully succession. As for the Tullys, Catelyn's children are ahead of Lysa and Robin. However, with Riverrun granted to a branch of the Freys and Littlefinger the new Lord Paramount of the Riverlands, the Tully succession isn't as much of a legal concern.
I like Daario/Daenerys. I meant that as opposed to being serious, not as opposed to being with Jorah. It's odd how TV Daario still has the attitude of book Daario but without the flashy appearance.
Arya and the Hound are like killing buddies now. Their unique relationship is whats going to make this GoT season interesting.
I've seen some jokes going around about how they're like a buddy cop duo. I've also seen complaints about how Arya would still be wallowing in grief from the Red Wedding. In general, some people wouldn't be happy unless it was exactly like the books, going on and on about how any changes ruin the story.
Arya and the Hound are like killing buddies now. Their unique relationship is whats going to make this GoT season interesting.
I've seen some jokes going around about how they're like a buddy cop duo. I've also seen complaints about how Arya would still be wallowing in grief from the Red Wedding. In general, some people wouldn't be happy unless it was exactly like the books, going on and on about how any changes ruin the story.
It has the makings of a rookie cop/veteran about to retire cop duo but it has the twist of Arya wanting to kill the Hound but stills needs him around for protection.
Arya is an interesting person, she seems to cope with grief in violent ways and nothing else, she doesn't react normally when her friend is killed right in front of her (aside from the shock of it) so i'm not terribly surprised by the fact that she doesn't display grief in the ways we expect her to when she hears of the slaughter of her family. She does channel her grief in a vengeful way such as her revenge killing this episode and the fact that she maintains a mental list of people she will kill shows that she still hasn't let some things go yet.
It has the makings of a rookie cop/veteran about to retire cop duo but it has the twist of Arya wanting to kill the Hound but stills needs him around for protection.
Arya is an interesting person, she seems to cope with grief in violent ways and nothing else, she doesn't react normally when her friend is killed right in front of her (aside from the shock of it) so i'm not terribly surprised by the fact that she doesn't display grief in the ways we expect her to when she hears of the slaughter of her family. She does channel her grief in a vengeful way such as her revenge killing this episode and the fact that she maintains a mental list of people she will kill shows that she still hasn't let some things go yet.
I figure Sandor's having a redemption or identity crisis, like Jaime is.
I figure Sandor's having a redemption or identity crisis, like Jaime is.
Thing is, GoT is cool in the fact that nearly every character isn't inherently "evil" (except maybe Joffery). Characters have their flaws and it may make them seem evil but in the case of the Sandor if you've paid attention to his actions and words throughout the series, he is a pretty stand up fellow compared to some of the others.
If anyone is having the identity crisis, it's Arya
Thing is, GoT is cool in the fact that nearly every character isn't inherently "evil" (except maybe Joffery). Characters have their flaws and it may make them seem evil but in the case of the Sandor if you've paid attention to his actions and words throughout the series, he is a pretty stand up fellow compared to some of the others.
If anyone is having the identity crisis, it's Arya
SO many shades of gray in GRRM's characters, and Joffrey is definitely the closest to pure villain.
As for your 2nd comment, yeah, Arya too, especially how quickly she took to it here.
This thread is just for the TV series. Keep all talk about the books in the Printed Media Forum.
Can we discuss how the TV show relates to past events in the books?
Due to the way that this series is probably going to have to play a little fast and loose with how it is in the books I would prefer if were kept completely separate.
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Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag and start slitting throats.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
Due to the way that this series is probably going to have to play a little fast and loose with how it is in the books I would prefer if were kept completely separate.
I figure Sandor's having a redemption or identity crisis, like Jaime is.
Thing is, GoT is cool in the fact that nearly every character isn't inherently "evil" (except maybe Joffery). Characters have their flaws and it may make them seem evil but in the case of the Sandor if you've paid attention to his actions and words throughout the series, he is a pretty stand up fellow compared to some of the others.
If anyone is having the identity crisis, it's Arya
I'd say that Cersei is closer to being "evil". Joffrey is really the product of Cersei. She serves as his model on how to act and spoils him to an absurd degree. His two younger siblings aren't nearly as bad and the key difference is that Cersei wasn't as involved with them. Joffrey doesn't really know any better because of his upbringing. I get the feeling that he could be taught why his actions are wrong if there was someone he'd listen to. Him becoming the king and the arrogance that brought has just made the learning much harder.
I agree that Sandor is the same person that he was at the start. His cruelties came from indifference. He's never really tried to harm others, he just follows orders and is too rundown to care enough.
I agree that Sandor is the same person that he was at the start. His cruelties came from indifference. He's never really tried to harm others, he just follows orders and is too rundown to care enough.
He does care, most of the time it gets masked by his ability to slaughter dozens though. I distinctly remember him not feeling particularly kindly towards Joffery (yes even he hates Joffery) and shows a degree of kindness to some of the Stark childrens like Arya and Sansa.
I agree that Sandor is the same person that he was at the start. His cruelties came from indifference. He's never really tried to harm others, he just follows orders and is too rundown to care enough.
He does care, most of the time it gets masked by his ability to slaughter dozens though. I distinctly remember him not feeling particularly kindly towards Joffery (yes even he hates Joffery) and shows a degree of kindness to some of the Stark childrens like Arya and Sansa.
It's not really masked by his ability. It's that he doesn't like to act for himself. The torture he suffered at his brother's hand has caused him to withdraw his emotions and hide. They are still there but he's depressed and keeps his thoughts inside. He followed Joffrey's orders because of his indifference. It takes a lot for him to act independently. He acts the way he does in spite of hating Joffrey because of this indifference. He just doesn't care about life and is detached from the world. The cracks when he shows emotion are necessary for us to understand why he is so apathetic.
It's not really masked by his ability. It's that he doesn't like to act for himself. The torture he suffered at his brother's hand has caused him to withdraw his emotions and hide. They are still there but he's depressed and keeps his thoughts inside. He followed Joffrey's orders because of his indifference. It takes a lot for him to act independently. He acts the way he does in spite of hating Joffrey because of this indifference. He just doesn't care about life and is detached from the world. The cracks when he shows emotion are necessary for us to understand why he is so apathetic.
He isn't apathetic. There was a brief exchange between Sandor and Sansa where we learn of the Hound's view on human nature and the reason he finds it okay to kill people is because human life is overrated to him. He even thinks animals are better than humans. His experiences with his brother didn't teach him to hide, it just taught him the harsh realities of life.
Like most GoT characters, Sandor acts with his well being in mind, he stays within the Baratheon ranks when he thinks they hold the power and deserts when he feels like they no longer have power and losing the battle of Blackwater.
I figure Sandor's having a redemption or identity crisis, like Jaime is.
Thing is, GoT is cool in the fact that nearly every character isn't inherently "evil" (except maybe Joffery). Characters have their flaws and it may make them seem evil but in the case of the Sandor if you've paid attention to his actions and words throughout the series, he is a pretty stand up fellow compared to some of the others.
If anyone is having the identity crisis, it's Arya
I'd say that Cersei is closer to being "evil". Joffrey is really the product of Cersei. She serves as his model on how to act and spoils him to an absurd degree. His two younger siblings aren't nearly as bad and the key difference is that Cersei wasn't as involved with them. Joffrey doesn't really know any better because of his upbringing. I get the feeling that he could be taught why his actions are wrong if there was someone he'd listen to. Him becoming the king and the arrogance that brought has just made the learning much harder.
I agree that Sandor is the same person that he was at the start. His cruelties came from indifference. He's never really tried to harm others, he just follows orders and is too rundown to care enough.
That's one of the great things about the series, is that there's almost always a historical reason for why people act a certain way. In a lot of fiction, some characters are evil just because they are. Here, characters act evil because they've been hurt, or spoiled, or neglected and that has shaped their personality. Even Cersei says that she thinks she did truly love Robert at one point. But he was a drunk and on at least one occasion he beat her, causing her to harden and turn her focus more towards her children, which in turn she ends up spoiling Joffrey... and the cycle continues. It's a great lesson in how our actions actually shape those around us.
Personally I think Joffrey is too far gone. Before he became king (and even in the early days) I think there was a chance that he might listen to a strong male authority figure like Tyrion, Tywin, or Ned and change for the better. But it's too late for that now.
Sandor deep down I think, is still a scared little boy being tortured by his older brother. That would have taught him that life is cruel and the only one you can trust is yourself. His scars would have made him an outcast. But he has stuck his neck out a little for both Sansa and Arya in the series when he didn't have to, so there does seem to be a soft spot there. Overall his actions tend to be very simple and almost child-like. He seems to me like a guy who desperately needs a friend.
The Lion and the Rose wasn't such a great followup.
Ramsay torturing Theon didn't seem to have the dark punch of similar scenes in the past.
Tyrion seemed uncharacteristically harsh to Shae.
I liked Shireen getting more screen time.
Margaery pulled a nice fast one on Joffrey with the donation announcement, though of course Cersei would try to rescind it.
Jaime was right in warning Loras, and I liked Loras' and you won't marry her either response. It also seems like a device to help make sure that doesn't actually happen.
I was pleasantly surprised to see Cersei and Brienne in a scene together, but I didn't think Cersei would be that civil.
Joffrey almost seemed normal upon getting the sword before he used it to cut Tyrion's book up. I liked how humiliating the entertainment was just the start of Joffrey being Joffrey. The dwarf joust wasn't as funny as I remember it from the book, although the show did a job with portraying Tyrion's annoyance.
The action at the high table was confusing, although that may have been purposeful to conceal who actually slipped Joffrey the poison. Like the books, the TV show did a good job of leaving that up in the air. This time I wondered if it was an impulse decision, or did the TV show simply want to give us that impression?
It's not really masked by his ability. It's that he doesn't like to act for himself. The torture he suffered at his brother's hand has caused him to withdraw his emotions and hide. They are still there but he's depressed and keeps his thoughts inside. He followed Joffrey's orders because of his indifference. It takes a lot for him to act independently. He acts the way he does in spite of hating Joffrey because of this indifference. He just doesn't care about life and is detached from the world. The cracks when he shows emotion are necessary for us to understand why he is so apathetic.
He isn't apathetic. There was a brief exchange between Sandor and Sansa where we learn of the Hound's view on human nature and the reason he finds it okay to kill people is because human life is overrated to him. He even thinks animals are better than humans. His experiences with his brother didn't teach him to hide, it just taught him the harsh realities of life.
Like most GoT characters, Sandor acts with his well being in mind, he stays within the Baratheon ranks when he thinks they hold the power and deserts when he feels like they no longer have power and losing the battle of Blackwater.
You mean Lannister ranks? lol. No? The Cleganes are loyal to the Lannisters. Sandor never swore an oath. He used to be Cersei's bodyguard and did a good job. Cersei hired him for Joffery because of that.
The Lion and the Rose wasn't such a great followup.
Ramsay torturing Theon didn't seem to have the dark punch of similar scenes in the past.
Tyrion seemed uncharacteristically harsh to Shae.
I liked Shireen getting more screen time.
Margaery pulled a nice fast one on Joffrey with the donation announcement, though of course Cersei would try to rescind it.
Jaime was right in warning Loras, and I liked Loras' and you won't marry her either response. It also seems like a device to help make sure that doesn't actually happen.
I was pleasantly surprised to see Cersei and Brienne in a scene together, but I didn't think Cersei would be that civil.
Joffrey almost seemed normal upon getting the sword before he used it to cut Tyrion's book up. I liked how humiliating the entertainment was just the start of Joffrey being Joffrey. The dwarf joust wasn't as funny as I remember it from the book, although the show did a job with portraying Tyrion's annoyance.
The action at the high table was confusing, although that may have been purposeful to conceal who actually slipped Joffrey the poison. Like the books, the TV show did a good job of leaving that up in the air. This time I wondered if it was an impulse decision, or did the TV show simply want to give us that impression?
I thought it was a fine follow up.
Ramsay is done torturing Theon physically... He is no longer Theon. He is Reek. I think this was actually one of the best scenes of the episode. Alfie did a terrific job as Reek/Theon. The mannerisms and emotions were very well done.
Tyrion is mean to Shae because he wants her to leave... That is the point. I thought the show pretty much told us that...
Jaime was right in what? He wasn't warning him. Sigh. Sigh. I don't want to spoil things for a show viewer only.
Wait you read the books? I really thought otherwise. The show actually showed spot on who poisoned Joffrey...
Anyways Oberyn was also another highlight of the show. I can't wait!
You mean Lannister ranks? lol. No? The Cleganes are loyal to the Lannisters. Sandor never swore an oath. He used to be Cersei's bodyguard and did a good job. Cersei hired him for Joffery because of that.
Joffery is a Baratheon to 99.999999% of Westeros even if we all know he is a Lannister biologically. Sandor joined the kingsguard protecting Joffery Baratheon therefore he would be under the service of the Baratheon house.
I really like how well they handled a certain scene:
You can actually watch Olenna Redwyne palm the poison off of the necklace she gave Sansa (take a look - when she is comforting Sansa and touching her hair, you can watch it happen, and the moment after you see one of the gems is missing from Sansa's necklace. Very nice touch.
It's not really masked by his ability. It's that he doesn't like to act for himself. The torture he suffered at his brother's hand has caused him to withdraw his emotions and hide. They are still there but he's depressed and keeps his thoughts inside. He followed Joffrey's orders because of his indifference. It takes a lot for him to act independently. He acts the way he does in spite of hating Joffrey because of this indifference. He just doesn't care about life and is detached from the world. The cracks when he shows emotion are necessary for us to understand why he is so apathetic.
He isn't apathetic. There was a brief exchange between Sandor and Sansa where we learn of the Hound's view on human nature and the reason he finds it okay to kill people is because human life is overrated to him. He even thinks animals are better than humans. His experiences with his brother didn't teach him to hide, it just taught him the harsh realities of life.
Like most GoT characters, Sandor acts with his well being in mind, he stays within the Baratheon ranks when he thinks they hold the power and deserts when he feels like they no longer have power and losing the battle of Blackwater.
You mean Lannister ranks? lol. No? The Cleganes are loyal to the Lannisters. Sandor never swore an oath. He used to be Cersei's bodyguard and did a good job. Cersei hired him for Joffery because of that.
The Lion and the Rose wasn't such a great followup.
Ramsay torturing Theon didn't seem to have the dark punch of similar scenes in the past.
Tyrion seemed uncharacteristically harsh to Shae.
I liked Shireen getting more screen time.
Margaery pulled a nice fast one on Joffrey with the donation announcement, though of course Cersei would try to rescind it.
Jaime was right in warning Loras, and I liked Loras' and you won't marry her either response. It also seems like a device to help make sure that doesn't actually happen.
I was pleasantly surprised to see Cersei and Brienne in a scene together, but I didn't think Cersei would be that civil.
Joffrey almost seemed normal upon getting the sword before he used it to cut Tyrion's book up. I liked how humiliating the entertainment was just the start of Joffrey being Joffrey. The dwarf joust wasn't as funny as I remember it from the book, although the show did a job with portraying Tyrion's annoyance.
The action at the high table was confusing, although that may have been purposeful to conceal who actually slipped Joffrey the poison. Like the books, the TV show did a good job of leaving that up in the air. This time I wondered if it was an impulse decision, or did the TV show simply want to give us that impression?
I thought it was a fine follow up.
Ramsay is done torturing Theon physically... He is no longer Theon. He is Reek. I think this was actually one of the best scenes of the episode. Alfie did a terrific job as Reek/Theon. The mannerisms and emotions were very well done.
Tyrion is mean to Shae because he wants her to leave... That is the point. I thought the show pretty much told us that...
Jaime was right in what? He wasn't warning him. Sigh. Sigh. I don't want to spoil things for a show viewer only.
Wait you read the books? I really thought otherwise. The show actually showed spot on who poisoned Joffrey...
Anyways Oberyn was also another highlight of the show. I can't wait!
Interesting analysis of the Ramsay situation.
I knew Tyrion had to get Shae to leave but I thought he was harsher than necessary. Well, it's better than what happens to her in the books.
The way I saw it, Jaime gave Loras some brutal honesty about Cersei.
I know who did it, but I didn't catch it on the show. Maybe that was my fault.
Oberyn eying Loras was a bit over the top. The Martell-Cersei confrontation was better.
-Episode 1-
Jaime/Cersei seems especially empty now, for a variety of reasons. In the books I remember being happy to see them back together.
I was reminded that she's getting more horrible, includign being wrongheaded about Jaime's new injury.
Maybe it's because I got more interested in Jaime/Brienne with their scenes late in season 3.
Also, Brienne seems to be getting more screentime in general.
Jon explaining himself to the Night's Watch, Jaime trying to do his best once back in the Kingsguard, and Arya's showdown at the inn are all book moments that the TV show represented well.
It looked like the archery training was part of getting ready for that wildling attack, taking that threat seriously. Also, now it's Jaime's turn instead of Tywin's to deal with Joffrey being Joffrey.
I wish they would at least mention what remains of Daenerys' khalasar in her scenes. Speaking of her, I do think Daario has a practical point about the flowers even though it comes off as trying to woo her.
In s3e10, Arya and Sandor killed some Freys. We didn't see any more of that her ein s4e1, but we didn't see any of Lady Stoneheart/unCatelyn either. Maybe the TV show has added that role to Arya's vengeance mission.
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Anyways, I thought it was a good return to form.
Also I don't know if it's been explicitly stated, but with Rob and Catelyn dead, and Bran and Rickon presumed dead, that would make Sansa (ie Tyrion) the current Lord of Winterfell correct?
Damn that Daario trying to woo Daenerys (and her seemingly liking it), doesn't he know that she's supposed to be with Jorah?
Since I've read the books, it's natural for me to discuss the TV show with that in mind, and I'll still do that going forward. Okay, I could have been more specific with what I meant by 'spoilers'. Thanks for pointing that out. It's possible to review something without spoilers even when not considering adaptation issues if any, I was simply saying that I don't do that.
Interesting view of what's going on in King's Landing.
I said I had been happy to see Jaime/Cersei back together in the book - they had also been rather more happy to see each other, if you know what I mean.
I did not come to that conclusion about Cersei.
Yes, Sansa is currently the presumed Stark heir, part of the problem with her being married to a Lannister. Catelyn wouldn't be in the Stark succession, but she would've been after Edmure and any legitimate children of his in the Tully succession. As for the Tullys, Catelyn's children are ahead of Lysa and Robin. However, with Riverrun granted to a branch of the Freys and Littlefinger the new Lord Paramount of the Riverlands, the Tully succession isn't as much of a legal concern.
I like Daario/Daenerys. I meant that as opposed to being serious, not as opposed to being with Jorah. It's odd how TV Daario still has the attitude of book Daario but without the flashy appearance.
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Arya is an interesting person, she seems to cope with grief in violent ways and nothing else, she doesn't react normally when her friend is killed right in front of her (aside from the shock of it) so i'm not terribly surprised by the fact that she doesn't display grief in the ways we expect her to when she hears of the slaughter of her family. She does channel her grief in a vengeful way such as her revenge killing this episode and the fact that she maintains a mental list of people she will kill shows that she still hasn't let some things go yet.
I'm making this offical.
This thread is just for the TV series. Keep all talk about the books in the Printed Media Forum.
- H.L Mencken
I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
All Religion, my friend is simply evolved out of fraud, fear, greed, imagination and poetry.
- Edgar Allan Poe
The Crafters' Rules Guru
I figure Sandor's having a redemption or identity crisis, like Jaime is.
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If anyone is having the identity crisis, it's Arya
As for your 2nd comment, yeah, Arya too, especially how quickly she took to it here.
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Can we discuss how the TV show relates to past events in the books?
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MTG checklists from Alpha to Ravnica Allegiance - https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/other-magic-products/third-party-products/805324-checklists-for-everything-from-alpha-to-ravnica
I really enjoyed that!
Due to the way that this series is probably going to have to play a little fast and loose with how it is in the books I would prefer if were kept completely separate.
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I Became insane with long Intervals of horrible Sanity
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Good point. Thanks for making it clear.
Vintage: Dredge | Legacy: Burn, Goblins, Soldier | Standard: Mono-Red Aggro
Commander: Nicol Bolas, Sliver Overlord, Rafiq
Casual: Selesnya Saproling Smackdown, Izzet Labs, Rebel
Played since June 2004, mostly inactive June 2011 to March 2018
Other usernames include AlanFromRochester, homerthebeerbaron
MTG checklists from Alpha to Ravnica Allegiance - https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/other-magic-products/third-party-products/805324-checklists-for-everything-from-alpha-to-ravnica
I agree that Sandor is the same person that he was at the start. His cruelties came from indifference. He's never really tried to harm others, he just follows orders and is too rundown to care enough.
He does care, most of the time it gets masked by his ability to slaughter dozens though. I distinctly remember him not feeling particularly kindly towards Joffery (yes even he hates Joffery) and shows a degree of kindness to some of the Stark childrens like Arya and Sansa.
It's not really masked by his ability. It's that he doesn't like to act for himself. The torture he suffered at his brother's hand has caused him to withdraw his emotions and hide. They are still there but he's depressed and keeps his thoughts inside. He followed Joffrey's orders because of his indifference. It takes a lot for him to act independently. He acts the way he does in spite of hating Joffrey because of this indifference. He just doesn't care about life and is detached from the world. The cracks when he shows emotion are necessary for us to understand why he is so apathetic.
He isn't apathetic. There was a brief exchange between Sandor and Sansa where we learn of the Hound's view on human nature and the reason he finds it okay to kill people is because human life is overrated to him. He even thinks animals are better than humans. His experiences with his brother didn't teach him to hide, it just taught him the harsh realities of life.
Like most GoT characters, Sandor acts with his well being in mind, he stays within the Baratheon ranks when he thinks they hold the power and deserts when he feels like they no longer have power and losing the battle of Blackwater.
That's one of the great things about the series, is that there's almost always a historical reason for why people act a certain way. In a lot of fiction, some characters are evil just because they are. Here, characters act evil because they've been hurt, or spoiled, or neglected and that has shaped their personality. Even Cersei says that she thinks she did truly love Robert at one point. But he was a drunk and on at least one occasion he beat her, causing her to harden and turn her focus more towards her children, which in turn she ends up spoiling Joffrey... and the cycle continues. It's a great lesson in how our actions actually shape those around us.
Personally I think Joffrey is too far gone. Before he became king (and even in the early days) I think there was a chance that he might listen to a strong male authority figure like Tyrion, Tywin, or Ned and change for the better. But it's too late for that now.
Sandor deep down I think, is still a scared little boy being tortured by his older brother. That would have taught him that life is cruel and the only one you can trust is yourself. His scars would have made him an outcast. But he has stuck his neck out a little for both Sansa and Arya in the series when he didn't have to, so there does seem to be a soft spot there. Overall his actions tend to be very simple and almost child-like. He seems to me like a guy who desperately needs a friend.
Vintage: Dredge | Legacy: Burn, Goblins, Soldier | Standard: Mono-Red Aggro
Commander: Nicol Bolas, Sliver Overlord, Rafiq
Casual: Selesnya Saproling Smackdown, Izzet Labs, Rebel
Played since June 2004, mostly inactive June 2011 to March 2018
Other usernames include AlanFromRochester, homerthebeerbaron
MTG checklists from Alpha to Ravnica Allegiance - https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/other-magic-products/third-party-products/805324-checklists-for-everything-from-alpha-to-ravnica
Ramsay torturing Theon didn't seem to have the dark punch of similar scenes in the past.
Tyrion seemed uncharacteristically harsh to Shae.
I liked Shireen getting more screen time.
Margaery pulled a nice fast one on Joffrey with the donation announcement, though of course Cersei would try to rescind it.
Jaime was right in warning Loras, and I liked Loras' and you won't marry her either response. It also seems like a device to help make sure that doesn't actually happen.
I was pleasantly surprised to see Cersei and Brienne in a scene together, but I didn't think Cersei would be that civil.
Joffrey almost seemed normal upon getting the sword before he used it to cut Tyrion's book up. I liked how humiliating the entertainment was just the start of Joffrey being Joffrey. The dwarf joust wasn't as funny as I remember it from the book, although the show did a job with portraying Tyrion's annoyance.
The action at the high table was confusing, although that may have been purposeful to conceal who actually slipped Joffrey the poison. Like the books, the TV show did a good job of leaving that up in the air. This time I wondered if it was an impulse decision, or did the TV show simply want to give us that impression?
Vintage: Dredge | Legacy: Burn, Goblins, Soldier | Standard: Mono-Red Aggro
Commander: Nicol Bolas, Sliver Overlord, Rafiq
Casual: Selesnya Saproling Smackdown, Izzet Labs, Rebel
Played since June 2004, mostly inactive June 2011 to March 2018
Other usernames include AlanFromRochester, homerthebeerbaron
MTG checklists from Alpha to Ravnica Allegiance - https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/other-magic-products/third-party-products/805324-checklists-for-everything-from-alpha-to-ravnica
You mean Lannister ranks? lol. No? The Cleganes are loyal to the Lannisters. Sandor never swore an oath. He used to be Cersei's bodyguard and did a good job. Cersei hired him for Joffery because of that.
I thought it was a fine follow up.
Ramsay is done torturing Theon physically... He is no longer Theon. He is Reek. I think this was actually one of the best scenes of the episode. Alfie did a terrific job as Reek/Theon. The mannerisms and emotions were very well done.
Tyrion is mean to Shae because he wants her to leave... That is the point. I thought the show pretty much told us that...
Jaime was right in what? He wasn't warning him. Sigh. Sigh. I don't want to spoil things for a show viewer only.
Wait you read the books? I really thought otherwise. The show actually showed spot on who poisoned Joffrey...
Anyways Oberyn was also another highlight of the show. I can't wait!
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Joffery is a Baratheon to 99.999999% of Westeros even if we all know he is a Lannister biologically. Sandor joined the kingsguard protecting Joffery Baratheon therefore he would be under the service of the Baratheon house.
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Interesting analysis of the Ramsay situation.
I knew Tyrion had to get Shae to leave but I thought he was harsher than necessary. Well, it's better than what happens to her in the books.
The way I saw it, Jaime gave Loras some brutal honesty about Cersei.
I know who did it, but I didn't catch it on the show. Maybe that was my fault.
Oberyn eying Loras was a bit over the top. The Martell-Cersei confrontation was better.
Vintage: Dredge | Legacy: Burn, Goblins, Soldier | Standard: Mono-Red Aggro
Commander: Nicol Bolas, Sliver Overlord, Rafiq
Casual: Selesnya Saproling Smackdown, Izzet Labs, Rebel
Played since June 2004, mostly inactive June 2011 to March 2018
Other usernames include AlanFromRochester, homerthebeerbaron
MTG checklists from Alpha to Ravnica Allegiance - https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/other-magic-products/third-party-products/805324-checklists-for-everything-from-alpha-to-ravnica