Really interested to see where things sit at the mid-season break, especially with the events that closed out last night's episode. I also want to say for the record that the beginning of the episode was one of my favorite before-the-opening-credits segments thus far.
"You're Heisenberg." / "You're goddamned right I am."
As a side note, I dig seeing Justin Lewis on the show (he was the one talking to Walt at the beginning of last night's episode). I really liked him in the first season of a Canadian show called Durham County (among other things), and hope we'll see more of him as the final season of Breaking Bad progresses.
Oh my god that intro was AMAZING! It definitely proves my coworkers point about Walter's 'I won'. Walter didn't win. Heisenberg did.
I loved Justin Lewis in Stargate Universe. I'm glad to see him again.
So this show glamourizes a villain. A villain whose only excuse is that things are hard for him.
Why should I not identify its popularity with the moral decay of society?
It's a drama. I don't think anyone in particular likes Walter or wants to be him. But it's damn compelling television. We've been glamorizing villains for years - crime fiction has been popular for a very long time.
Walter is a great character study, and some spoiler details about his life here:
He's a man who literally lost a fortune because he didn't pursue it and lived the rest of his life building resentment for his failure - as he puts it 'He sold his children's birthright for a few month's rent'. He sold his interest in a company that went on to make billions because of personal drama. And his potential as a brilliant chemist has been wasted as a teacher, plus he's constantly stomped on by stronger personalities. When he's confronted with his own mortality, it's no wonder he creates the Heisenberg persona.
the flash forward to his 52nd birthday and getting the guns and stuff, IMO he's probably going to get gunned down by:
a) the DEA
b) a rival gang
c) Jesse
d) the crew he cooks for now
but yeah I think he's going down in flames
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the flash forward to his 52nd birthday and getting the guns and stuff, IMO he's probably going to get gunned down by:
a) the DEA
b) a rival gang
c) Jesse
d) the crew he cooks for now
but yeah I think he's going down in flames
His wife, his son, or his Brother-in-law. There is really no other way I can see this ending, although Jessie may be close enough to be considered family.
So this show glamourizes a villain. A villain whose only excuse is that things are hard for him.
It hardly glamorizes him. Yes he gets rich, but if you didn't already know that heading a drug empire could get you rich, this show isn't going to change anything. I think it's pretty fair in its depiction - he's also become a several time murderer for example, and had his entire family close to death.
Why should I not identify its popularity with the moral decay of society?
I doubt such a thing is even happening. I dare you to point to a period of human history where a vast segment of a society didn't think "moral decay" was occurring, besides maybe a couple of golden ages. But maybe that's farther than the entertainment subforum should go.
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"Virtue, Jacques, is an excellent thing. Both good people and wicked people speak highly of it..."
Why should I not identify its popularity with the moral decay of society?
I don't think society is in a state of moral decay at all. We could debate this all day, but that isn't the point of this thread. The show is popular because its...good!
His wife, his son, or his Brother-in-law. There is really no other way I can see this ending, although Jessie may be close enough to be considered family.
It'll be Hank if anyone, Skyler seems too weak to do anything f her own accord, and jr seems to revere his father.
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It's so easy to spot the person who's never watched the show. Either that or you're not paying any attention to what's actually happening.
The show has never, ever glamorized becoming a drug dealer. It has done quite the opposite.
Unless you are talking about how glamorous it is to lose your humanity and sympathy, in which case, you've really nailed it.
Season 1 portrays a much more sympathetic Walter and he gets some real moments of 'cool' in it. From season 2 on Walter starts losing audience sympathy fast and his triumphs only make him look more pathetic.
The show likes to emphasize that the most successful criminals live very boring lives because this way they attract the least attention. Walter can't even buy a new car without looking like he lives beyond his means.
Season 1 portrays a much more sympathetic Walter and he gets some real moments of 'cool' in it. From season 2 on Walter starts losing audience sympathy fast and his triumphs only make him look more pathetic.
I don't even think I agree with this. Yes, it's pretty awesome when Walter blows up Tucco's place, but I never want to be him. Nothing about the decisions he makes (outside the fat stacks of cash) looks appealing.
The show wants, needs in fact, the viewer to sympathize with Walter in the beginning to maintain viewership, but it's not long before we see the damage being done to Walter and those around him. I'd never want to put myself or my loved ones through the things Walter and his family go through. If anyone thinks this show glamorizes Walter's lifestyle they are sorely mistaken.
Was the book itself significant? I don't recall it and can't think of a G.B. offhand. What exactly did the text say? If it wasn't, why exactly did it give him such inspiration? All it did was bring back a memory where he jokingly pointed out Walter shared the initials of some guy (their suspect iirc, but still... also, can anyone remind me of exactly where that flashback was from? I vaguely recognized it, but where did they get W.W. from in the first place?). I didn't feel like 'oh yeah he knows'. I felt like... Ok, so he knows... But why is it different now? If all that mattered was the W.W., I feel like he should've flashed to the them at the party showing the bust cash, the ride-along, discussing the missing chem equipment, the money, the new car and watch, and the problems between Skylar and Walt afterward, to emphasize him putting it all together, instead of just... Bing, here's this one moment and for some reason it means more to him now.
But yeah, I was about to go find that flashbacked scene and exactly what the note in the book was, because I missed/forgot too much. If anyone could just remind me here that'd be great.
Also, they didn't flat out say it but it appears the cancer is back. For a little I thought maybe he will just die and it'll be almost a happy ending. That doesn't seem like it would fit though (much less fill half a season more of episodes), so I was glad to see something else crop up. I just felt like I was missing something, the way it was done.
Wow the ending to that was what I figured was going to happen. I can't wait for the conclusion of this season.
Unfortunately that is a very long 11 months away.
I don't think this will end well I think the last 8 episodes is the **** hitting the fan in a big way and Walter trying to stem the tide and failing. I think at this point Hank has figured it out and is extremely suspicious of Walter, when he first said his name it was a joke. You obviously don't want to believe that your brother in law is criminal if you are part of the DEA.
If Walt discovers that Hank knows Walt can not just have him killed without hurting the people he cares about so this becomes his worst situation so far.
Oooooookay. Did we actually see him give the book to walt? I definitely can see Hank making the connection (obviously he has, it's whether or not we buy the gap he leapt) with that in mind. I do still wish they'd done a flashback of all the suspicious things surrounding Walt though. I feel like it would've really sent it home. As it is, it makes enough sense now. I simply hadn't remember enough. Seeing W.W. brings the memory of gale's lab notes, he sees the G.B., pretty easy jump. I'm curious to what extent he believes he's involved. What was given away in the original note to W.W.? It'd have to be hard for him to instantly think his brother-in-law (who has cried in front of him) is some wicked villain. I wonder how much of the truth will come out and how far. I suspect all of it, though I'm not sure everyone will know (his kids).
Great show, I'm glad to see it'll go out in a bang. I just hope they finish it perfectly. So many shows go wrong before they finish up, Breaking Bad already has a leg up on most- they're ending it on their terms, before it gets old.
Re: why the book (and that flashback) is such a revelation, to the exclusion of other facts:
The reason Hank knows that W.W. is Walt, and didn't know before, is because when Gales lab notes mentioned WW as being 'an inspiration', Hank couldn't piece together who it referred to, assuming that it was just a coincidence that Walts initials were the same. This time, he finds a book, by Walt Whitman, that says 'to the OTHER WW', Signed GB (Gale Boetticher), In Walts bathroom.
When Gale turned up Dead, Hank must have learned everything about him that there was to know, including that he is a chemist who worked for Gus Fring but that he is not Heisenberg.
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True, I had just entered "Hank most certainly knows who Heisenberg is, now." But later added the "al". Bah!
Man! I've been waiting for this exact scene for the past two seasons. I knew it wasn't going to come until the end of the show's life, but it was worth it for me. That single moment when "Hank knows".
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The real question now is what is Hank to do? 1. He has accepted large amounts of drug money from a source he knew to be illegal (gambling not drugs, however the gambling would never have checked out if Hank did just a little investigation). 2. What real evidence can he gather at this point? Sure he knows that Walt is Heisenberg and the books at the car wash will almost certainly not check out but fact of the matter is Walt is no longer selling drugs and in the time it would take to launch a DEA investigation, what little evidence which may exist will be long gone. Maybe conspiracy but all remaining the co conspirators (except that woman who probably isn't on anyone's radar) are dead. Shady business dealings certainly have penalties but not particularly severe ones (relative) and it would probably be outside of the DEA's jurisdiction. 3. Given the close familial bonds with Walt combined with 1 and 2 I think Hank may opt for some extra legal measures. I don't mean off Walt (something his character isn't capable of) but I do mean... I don't know still wondering.
On a side note, is anyone curious about those thugs in Arizona Walt is still partnered with? Also what do we think is going to happen to Jesse? I for one have no clue on either of these questions.
The real question now is what is Hank to do? 1. He has accepted large amounts of drug money from a source he knew to be illegal (gambling not drugs, however the gambling would never have checked out if Hank did just a little investigation). 2. What real evidence can he gather at this point? Sure he knows that Walt is Heisenberg and the books at the car wash will almost certainly not check out but fact of the matter is Walt is no longer selling drugs and in the time it would take to launch a DEA investigation, what little evidence which may exist will be long gone. Maybe conspiracy but all remaining the co conspirators (except that woman who probably isn't on anyone's radar) are dead. Shady business dealings certainly have penalties but not particularly severe ones (relative) and it would probably be outside of the DEA's jurisdiction. 3. Given the close familial bonds with Walt combined with 1 and 2 I think Hank may opt for some extra legal measures. I don't mean off Walt (something his character isn't capable of) but I do mean... I don't know still wondering.
On a side note, is anyone curious about those thugs in Arizona Walt is still partnered with? Also what do we think is going to happen to Jesse? I for one have no clue on either of these questions.
There's also the question of Hank's career. While I agree there's not going to be much to point to Walter's guilt (especially once Walt kills Lydia!), you have to wonder if Hank will even reveal to anyone that Walt is Heisenberg. If the DEA finds out that one of their star investigators has been having bar-b-q's with and accepting drug money from one of the biggest distributors in the south-west then he's probably not going to have that cushy desk job anymore.
All I know for sure is that moment was a long time coming and I'm so excited to see how the rest of the show plays out!
Does anyone remember the episode "Fly" from the earliest seasons? Back then I thought it was a pretty boring episode, nothing more than a filler, but now I'm not so sure, since a new fly appears in this episode too. The fly has to represent something, especially since we saw a diagram of it on the wall, but I can't figure it out. Maybe it shows that Walt sees everyone as flies? He kills people as if they were flies? Walt is the fly? I don't know, but it's definitely interesting.
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Watch your words, for they become actions.
Watch your actions, for they become habits.
Watch your habits, for they become character.
Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.
Does anyone remember the episode "Fly" from the earliest seasons? Back then I thought it was a pretty boring episode, nothing more than a filler, but now I'm not so sure, since a new fly appears in this episode too. The fly has to represent something, especially since we saw a diagram of it on the wall, but I can't figure it out. Maybe it shows that Walt sees everyone as flies? He kills people as if they were flies? Walt is the fly? I don't know, but it's definitely interesting.
The fly in the episode Fly represents Walt's guilt (and to a larger degree, his overall humanity), IMO. If you remember, it was in that episode that Walt apologized to Jesse, or tried to anyway, for what happened to Jane as well as all that he had put Jesse through. Walt used the fly as an excuse to not cook, but it was his own insecurities and guilt that was the real hang-up.
The fly in this most recent episode could be interpreted a couple of ways. Maybe Walter does see himself as larger than the rest of humanity. Maybe everyone else is nothing but flies to him. Maybe his guilt over Jesse has returned. Why else would he bring him huge bags full of money? Or, given the fact that flies have a short life span, maybe the fly represents Walt's own mortality. Perhaps Walt realizes that his life is as fleeting as the life of the fly...but that's just me waxing philosophical.
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Oh my god that intro was AMAZING! It definitely proves my coworkers point about Walter's 'I won'. Walter didn't win. Heisenberg did.
I loved Justin Lewis in Stargate Universe. I'm glad to see him again.
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Why should I not identify its popularity with the moral decay of society?
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It's a drama. I don't think anyone in particular likes Walter or wants to be him. But it's damn compelling television. We've been glamorizing villains for years - crime fiction has been popular for a very long time.
Walter is a great character study, and some spoiler details about his life here:
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Based on the first episode,
a) the DEA
b) a rival gang
c) Jesse
d) the crew he cooks for now
but yeah I think he's going down in flames
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It's so easy to spot the person who's never watched the show. Either that or you're not paying any attention to what's actually happening.
The show has never, ever glamorized becoming a drug dealer. It has done quite the opposite.
Unless you are talking about how glamorous it is to lose your humanity and sympathy, in which case, you've really nailed it.
I don't think society is in a state of moral decay at all. We could debate this all day, but that isn't the point of this thread. The show is popular because its...good!
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Season 1 portrays a much more sympathetic Walter and he gets some real moments of 'cool' in it. From season 2 on Walter starts losing audience sympathy fast and his triumphs only make him look more pathetic.
The show likes to emphasize that the most successful criminals live very boring lives because this way they attract the least attention. Walter can't even buy a new car without looking like he lives beyond his means.
I don't even think I agree with this. Yes, it's pretty awesome when Walter blows up Tucco's place, but I never want to be him. Nothing about the decisions he makes (outside the fat stacks of cash) looks appealing.
The show wants, needs in fact, the viewer to sympathize with Walter in the beginning to maintain viewership, but it's not long before we see the damage being done to Walter and those around him. I'd never want to put myself or my loved ones through the things Walter and his family go through. If anyone thinks this show glamorizes Walter's lifestyle they are sorely mistaken.
For those of you who saw the midseason finale tonight... thoughts?
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Perfect way to end a midseason.
But yeah, I was about to go find that flashbacked scene and exactly what the note in the book was, because I missed/forgot too much. If anyone could just remind me here that'd be great.
Also, they didn't flat out say it but it appears the cancer is back. For a little I thought maybe he will just die and it'll be almost a happy ending. That doesn't seem like it would fit though (much less fill half a season more of episodes), so I was glad to see something else crop up. I just felt like I was missing something, the way it was done.
Unfortunately that is a very long 11 months away.
I don't think this will end well I think the last 8 episodes is the **** hitting the fan in a big way and Walter trying to stem the tide and failing. I think at this point Hank has figured it out and is extremely suspicious of Walter, when he first said his name it was a joke. You obviously don't want to believe that your brother in law is criminal if you are part of the DEA.
If Walt discovers that Hank knows Walt can not just have him killed without hurting the people he cares about so this becomes his worst situation so far.
Feel free to bid on my cards here!
"If you don't meet the confrontations that life gives you, you're going to be screwed anyway." - JohnPopper
Great show, I'm glad to see it'll go out in a bang. I just hope they finish it perfectly. So many shows go wrong before they finish up, Breaking Bad already has a leg up on most- they're ending it on their terms, before it gets old.
When Gale turned up Dead, Hank must have learned everything about him that there was to know, including that he is a chemist who worked for Gus Fring but that he is not Heisenberg.
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True, I had just entered "Hank most certainly knows who Heisenberg is, now." But later added the "al". Bah!
Man! I've been waiting for this exact scene for the past two seasons. I knew it wasn't going to come until the end of the show's life, but it was worth it for me. That single moment when "Hank knows".
"If you don't meet the confrontations that life gives you, you're going to be screwed anyway." - JohnPopper
On a side note, is anyone curious about those thugs in Arizona Walt is still partnered with? Also what do we think is going to happen to Jesse? I for one have no clue on either of these questions.
All I know for sure is that moment was a long time coming and I'm so excited to see how the rest of the show plays out!
Watch your words, for they become actions.
Watch your actions, for they become habits.
Watch your habits, for they become character.
Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.
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The fly in the episode Fly represents Walt's guilt (and to a larger degree, his overall humanity), IMO. If you remember, it was in that episode that Walt apologized to Jesse, or tried to anyway, for what happened to Jane as well as all that he had put Jesse through. Walt used the fly as an excuse to not cook, but it was his own insecurities and guilt that was the real hang-up.
The fly in this most recent episode could be interpreted a couple of ways. Maybe Walter does see himself as larger than the rest of humanity. Maybe everyone else is nothing but flies to him. Maybe his guilt over Jesse has returned. Why else would he bring him huge bags full of money? Or, given the fact that flies have a short life span, maybe the fly represents Walt's own mortality. Perhaps Walt realizes that his life is as fleeting as the life of the fly...but that's just me waxing philosophical.