How boring... No side by side racing, hardly any passing. Definitely more exciting than when Shumacher was basically unbeatable though. And how super long is the season? Surely not longer than the 36 races Nascar holds for its top tier. I'll watch Nascar any day of the week...
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"Keep in mind just one thing when you argue with idiots- they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."
In 2010 there were 5 people mid season who were all able to take the title it slowly widdled down to 3 but that was luck more than anything else.
While this thread is dead anyway, I don't mind getting into it with a nascar fan. Never in my life have I see such a dead sport, the cars are not exciting at all. If you would put nascar drivers on to the tracks that F1 cars do then I might watch it, but you aren't going to see that.
I don't even understand how a nascar fan can call f1 boring with no over taking when all you do in nascar is hundreds of miles of droning in a line. Don't get me wrong there is passing, but if that is your only reason for putting f1 down, then no way.
And yes the season is pretty damn long for f1.
Drivers go to nascar for the glamor and the money. Period.
Also I cannot stand the general nascar fan base.
But what I will do is, I'll torrent the entire season of 2010 nascar and compare it to the the 2010 forumla 1 as I just started watching f1.
Nascar only has so much overtaking and side-by-side racing because they have constant cautions that bunch the field back up, never letting them spread out the way they do in F1. If F1 races had full course cautions every 5 laps, it would look a lot more like Nascar. It would not be an improvement, however, in my opinion.
A lot of passing in Nascar is generally arbitrary anyways. Teams will use each other to draft up a few positions. In order to do this they draft, and pass, then the guy who was passed will draft, and repass. Back and forth they go, which in theory means they can get around the track slightly faster.
And that is all the strategy to Nascar! Formula 1 looks like fun, but I'm not a big fan of watching races. Thus, I don't really care. Not to mention I have no idea how to watch F1 here in the states. It's just so randomly unpopular here. I just like F1 more because the cars are vastly superior in every way, and the tracks have interesting bits about them.
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"I've always been a fan of reality by popular vote" - Stephen Colbert (in response to Don McLeroy)
In 2010 there were 5 people mid season who were all able to take the title it slowly widdled down to 3 but that was luck more than anything else.
While this thread is dead anyway, I don't mind getting into it with a nascar fan. Never in my life have I see such a dead sport, the cars are not exciting at all. If you would put nascar drivers on to the tracks that F1 cars do then I might watch it, but you aren't going to see that.
I don't even understand how a nascar fan can call f1 boring with no over taking when all you do in nascar is hundreds of miles of droning in a line. Don't get me wrong there is passing, but if that is your only reason for putting f1 down, then no way.
And yes the season is pretty damn long for f1.
Drivers go to nascar for the glamor and the money. Period.
Also I cannot stand the general nascar fan base.
But what I will do is, I'll torrent the entire season of 2010 nascar and compare it to the the 2010 forumla 1 as I just started watching f1.
Well torrenting sounds like illegal activity to me, but suit yourself. In 2010, you said there were 5 drivers halfway through the season with a shot to win the championship. Ok, in just the cup series of nascar, 2/3 of the way through 2010 there were 12 drivers still able to win the championship and going into the final race, there were at least 3. Length of season? Um, F1 has 20 events and the cup series has 36 plus the all-star and shootout events. Hell, even the craftsman truck series runs more races in their season at like 25 or 26. How is nascar a "dead" sport? 7 of the 10 highest attended sporting events in america are nascar races... Oh yeah, that's a dead sport for sure. I laugh when you say "droning in a line" as if F1 has ever had a side by side battle that lasted for even as much as a full lap. And thanks for stereotyping nascar fans.
Im still thinkin that nascar sounds better and actually when you look at it from a statistical perspective, I'm right. Better luck next time...
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"Keep in mind just one thing when you argue with idiots- they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."
KERS, Moveable wings, super long season, a number of drivers capable of winning it..
I cannot wait, last year was fantastic and it was my first year to ever watch formula 1.
So how far into the F1 season are we? Oh yeah, it hasn't even started yet. Haven't they already had to postpone a race too? Yeah, they have...
OTOH, Nascar is rollin right along, gonna be the third race of the season this weekend... And I think their season lasts until late november? When does the F1 season end?
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"Keep in mind just one thing when you argue with idiots- they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."
The last race of the F1 season is November 27. Formula 1 races also take place all over the world, which is a little bit harder to coordinate. If the police and military in Las Vegas were shooting protesting civilians, there's probably a good chance that their race would get postponed, too. Nascar races get canceled for RAIN, for crying out loud. In F1 you just change your tires.
And it isn't possible to have one of these lap-long side by side battles that you're so enamored with. In F1, you see, the courses have turns. You won't be familiar with those, but they make completing a lap rather more complicated than driving around the inside of a bowl for 400 miles.
NASCAR doesn't cancel races because of rain... They do delay or postpone for a day or two if necessary and occasionally the race is called early in accordance with the established rules of the sport. Also, this turning thing you seem to imply doesn't exist in oval racing- I'm pretty sure turning actually happens. It even says the word "turn" on the walls of many, if not all, tracks NASCAR races on. Besides that, they can run in the rain if they are running on a road course (same deal with the tires basically). Then you have to consider that at a NASCAR venue, you can generally see most of the track at all times, whereas on a road course, you get to see just the portion where your seats are (live, that is). By comparing these 2 series side by side, it is rather easy to see that F1 just doesn't compare...
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"Keep in mind just one thing when you argue with idiots- they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."
ROFL? You are kidding right? Tell me you are kidding. Nascar is just plain boring, requires less skill, and is well, just not fun to watch. You can't even start to compare it with F1. The days of schumi weren't boring, it's not because someone dominated that it's boring. Federer dominated for a long time, is that boring? Barca dominates a whole lot of their matches, is that boring?
I have to admit though that I'm starting to find F1 more boring then I used to. Dunno if it's me or because the races are becoming more dull.
No, I'm not kidding. I am absolutely serious. Explain how exactly Nascar requires less skill. I think a guy named Juan would disagree with you. Sure he never won an F1 championship but I seem to recall that he won a few races compared to just 2 in the same amount of seasons in NASCAR. You could also factor in that the NASCAR season is nearly twice as long which translates to more opportunities to win races per season. How many times in the history of formula one have they had 2 cars cross the finish line side by side to end the race? I know in NASCAR it happens a few times a year and its um, like exciting to watch. How many times in F1 have they managed to battle side by side for more than 30 seconds? In NASCAR its fairly commonplace to have side by side battles last for 20 or more laps (depending on which track this is potentially 10 or more minutes). What happens if two F1 cars go off into the corner side by side and the guy on the inside makes some contact with the guy on the outside? They usually wreck... In NASCAR, sometimes they wreck, but even when they do, the majority of the time the cars can be repaired and continue on. For a specific example though, a couple weeks ago, Jeff Gordon ran down Kyle Busch at Phoenix and made contact off and on for about a half a lap before he completed the pass. Neither car "wrecked". I guess the only thing you are actually right about is that there isn't really a comparison to be made-NASCAR is just better.
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"Keep in mind just one thing when you argue with idiots- they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."
@Bel: What up dude! I didn't even know you still posted here... If you get a chance, watch the NASCAR race this weekend- they are racing Bristol which is a half mile track with 24-36 degree progressive banking. 500 laps and they will be turning laps in about 16 seconds...
On topic: I actively watched F1, IRL, CART and all the NASCAR touring series races for 5-6 years. That said, I feel fairly qualified to compare the two styles of racing. I just prefer the excitement of NASCAR. I've even attended several races (not F1 but a couple CART, IRL and NASCAR events each). I can see where people think NASCAR is boring in that they race too many 1.5+ mile tracks and the field gets spread out and they have really long green runs. The track closest to where I live is a terrible track to watch races at because its 2 miles and like 80 feet wide. The only positive is that you can see the whole track at all times. I've been to some road and street course races and they suck. You only get to see the cars for one short area per lap and the rest you are basically just watching TV.
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"Keep in mind just one thing when you argue with idiots- they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."
How boring... No side by side racing, hardly any passing. Definitely more exciting than when Shumacher was basically unbeatable though. And how super long is the season? Surely not longer than the 36 races Nascar holds for its top tier. I'll watch Nascar any day of the week...
Nascar has to be one of the worst motorsports on the planet. To think that a sport ever could have evolved from some backwoods bootlegers driving their family sedans in circles is beyond me. They went from using production cars to full one off tube chassis cars. I would much rather watch races between Ferrari and Porsche, then races between Chevy and Dodge. F1 is rather lame as well.
Back on the topic, I'm sorry to see KERS coming back this year. FOM go on and on about wanting to keep costs down, and then screw around with things like this. I don't feel like it adds much of anything to the sport. We'll see.
I hope to see Schumi do well. I'd like to think he's got at least one win left in him.
I apologize for baiting the derailment of the thread lol. It really wasn't going anywhere.
In regards to formula 1, it is changing, I think the management has finally started to get off this "safety first" run which has been the demise of the sport for many years. It isn't futile though, it served a purpose. It's time to return the grassroots of F1 and let racing be racing.
As much as I would love to see F1 in america, I think the biggest problem is, the grand prix cars are no longer really cars. Sure they have 4 wheels, but they are more like planes than they are cars it seems like.
I'm not trying to offend Nascar fans with this next paragraph.
To me it seems that it's because of this F1 cannot really appeal to the masses in america because Nascar = cars F1 = ????. I find it laughable that NASCAR still uses the word "stock" in it's title.
As far as comparing NASCAR to F1 in terms of cars, you just can't. F1 cars are unbridled machines of technological prowess. They show what the can happen at the pinnacle of 4 wheel racing. However they are also weak machines. In that they are extremely Dependant on humans. They have to be fine tuned for each race for every condition possible.
I can promise you f1 engines have the power to keep up with a nascar car, and if tuned to prevent downforce and favor major drag they would not only smoke off the line with such tremendous speed, once the slinging would go around it would be hard pressed to keep up. Then again, f1 cars are lighter, and in no way be compared directly.
There are many F1 drivers who jump ship for NASCAR, better glamour, better glory.
No doubt an F1 car would be faster. Our open wheel series is faster than the "stock" cars (it is kind of ironic, but titles are titles) on ovals that they share like Michigan, Indy, etc. This could be because they only weigh 1/3 or so what a stock car does. Not to mention a much lower center of gravity and way more downforce, 6 gears. So, yeah its kind of a no brainer to say the open wheel cars are faster. But when they hit something, their day is usually done. Stock cars can beat and bang and be fixed enough to still run pretty fast. Open wheel series are making some progress with repairs but its still easier to wreck out rather than get a successful repair.
I think the thing that I find most off-putting about F1 is that they issue "team orders" at times and manufacture the results instead of earning them through competition. This kind of stuff does not happen in NASCAR. Just last year Jeff Gordon and Jimmie Johnson (teammates) were bangin each other at Texas and talkin ☺☺☺☺ on the radio. They were both running top 5 all race long and their tempers were flaring at each other a bit. They made quite a bit of contact too, which could have cost them both DNF's. The ironic thing is that not only are they teammates, their cars are co-located in one shop and Jeff Gordon is part owner of Jimmie Johnson's car.
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"Keep in mind just one thing when you argue with idiots- they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."
I personally think the only team orders that exist are ones in Ferrari who cater to one driver so they can still have the glory. Glory comes with the drivers championship money comes from the constructors. While they come hand in hand, the team sees NO money from the drivers champion ship.
Out of the current team in f1, Ferrari is the only one I get the vibe from now that doesn't give equal treatment to their drivers.
Sure the other teams may have variance in pay, but over all, I the attitudes are, we are two guys on the same team, we can race each other but not endanger the teams chances of winning because that's where the money comes from.
Also just because nascar RULES say no team orders, all teams, have orders. Remember these drivers are employees, and if the team boss says something has to happen it can.
Team orders in F1 happens when, the season is mid way through and you have to focus your materials on one driver who may be leading over another to insure the best possible victory for THE TEAM, not the driver.
Yeah, no lead changes other than the first pit stop cycle is really exciting. Finishing 22+ seconds ahead of the field is really exciting.
Gimme a friggin break!!!
OTOH, the NASCAR race at Fontana this weekend was much more exciting. There were 2 lead changes in the final 3 laps of the race, including a last lap pass for the win.
Hell, even the Indy Car series here started double file restarts this season to provide some excitement. Maybe F1 should take a few hints...
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"Keep in mind just one thing when you argue with idiots- they bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."
Yeah, no lead changes other than the first pit stop cycle is really exciting. Finishing 22+ seconds ahead of the field is really exciting.
Gimme a friggin break!!!
OTOH, the NASCAR race at Fontana this weekend was much more exciting. There were 2 lead changes in the final 3 laps of the race, including a last lap pass for the win.
Hell, even the Indy Car series here started double file restarts this season to provide some excitement. Maybe F1 should take a few hints...
Vettel led the race he's a pole machine, he's in a superior car, what do you expect?
The rest of the field was scrapping and I doubt you know the history of the Australian Gran Prix is also not the best way to judge the outcome of the rest of the season either.
You obviously didn't watch it but congrats on googling something on the F1 website. You didn't see the scraps between Button and Massa as well as Vettel and Button.
You like most of america is so obsessed with Winning only and anything below that is worthless and inferior that you put blinders on to the rest of the sport. Nascar is droning and boring. You clearly didn't watch 2010 season either. (By the way I live here so I can call out my country on its BULL crap)
I don't watch nascar but that's why I won't go farther than I do when talking about it. I DON'T FIND OVAL RACING INTERESTING. I like road courses. And not just 3-4 a season.
It's ok though, I doubt any of your burger eating nascar road kings could handle f1. Because they would have to lose 30% of their body weight.
You like most of america is so obsessed with Winning only and anything below that is worthless and inferior that you put blinders on to the rest of the sport. Nascar is droning and boring. You clearly didn't watch 2010 season either. (By the way I live here so I can call out my country on its BULL crap)
If I am so obsessed with "winning", why wouldn't I be watching that Robot Racing BS? One guy wins the pole, the race, leads virtually every lap... OTOH, in the Real Racing world of NASCAR, there were 15-20 lead changes at a fairly monotonous racetrack. The margin of victory at the end was 0.14 seconds. That definitely sounds more exciting than seeing the first car finish and having time to go take a piss and still not miss the second car finish.
And what does that "I live here" line have to do with anything? Are you saying because you live somewhere specific that you are entitled to cast an opinion and someone else is not because maybe they don't live there too? You can for sure stick that angle...
@ Satanic username: what does foad mean? Is that like a flame that just didn't get spelled out?
EDIT: So as not to double post (like some F1 fan), I will merely add this- NASCAR race at Martinsville today. 500 laps of awesomeness. Had a record number of lead changes today (quite amazing since they have been racing there since 1949) and an exciting finish. What did F1 do today? Maybe they were too busy watching NASCAR...
I cannot wait, last year was fantastic and it was my first year to ever watch formula 1.
BS is BS, any way you look at it!!!
In 2010 there were 5 people mid season who were all able to take the title it slowly widdled down to 3 but that was luck more than anything else.
While this thread is dead anyway, I don't mind getting into it with a nascar fan. Never in my life have I see such a dead sport, the cars are not exciting at all. If you would put nascar drivers on to the tracks that F1 cars do then I might watch it, but you aren't going to see that.
I don't even understand how a nascar fan can call f1 boring with no over taking when all you do in nascar is hundreds of miles of droning in a line. Don't get me wrong there is passing, but if that is your only reason for putting f1 down, then no way.
And yes the season is pretty damn long for f1.
Drivers go to nascar for the glamor and the money. Period.
Also I cannot stand the general nascar fan base.
But what I will do is, I'll torrent the entire season of 2010 nascar and compare it to the the 2010 forumla 1 as I just started watching f1.
And that is all the strategy to Nascar! Formula 1 looks like fun, but I'm not a big fan of watching races. Thus, I don't really care. Not to mention I have no idea how to watch F1 here in the states. It's just so randomly unpopular here. I just like F1 more because the cars are vastly superior in every way, and the tracks have interesting bits about them.
"I've always been a fan of reality by popular vote" - Stephen Colbert (in response to Don McLeroy)
GPolukranos, Kill ALL the Things!G
Well torrenting sounds like illegal activity to me, but suit yourself. In 2010, you said there were 5 drivers halfway through the season with a shot to win the championship. Ok, in just the cup series of nascar, 2/3 of the way through 2010 there were 12 drivers still able to win the championship and going into the final race, there were at least 3. Length of season? Um, F1 has 20 events and the cup series has 36 plus the all-star and shootout events. Hell, even the craftsman truck series runs more races in their season at like 25 or 26. How is nascar a "dead" sport? 7 of the 10 highest attended sporting events in america are nascar races... Oh yeah, that's a dead sport for sure. I laugh when you say "droning in a line" as if F1 has ever had a side by side battle that lasted for even as much as a full lap. And thanks for stereotyping nascar fans.
Im still thinkin that nascar sounds better and actually when you look at it from a statistical perspective, I'm right. Better luck next time...
BS is BS, any way you look at it!!!
So how far into the F1 season are we? Oh yeah, it hasn't even started yet. Haven't they already had to postpone a race too? Yeah, they have...
OTOH, Nascar is rollin right along, gonna be the third race of the season this weekend... And I think their season lasts until late november? When does the F1 season end?
BS is BS, any way you look at it!!!
And it isn't possible to have one of these lap-long side by side battles that you're so enamored with. In F1, you see, the courses have turns. You won't be familiar with those, but they make completing a lap rather more complicated than driving around the inside of a bowl for 400 miles.
BS is BS, any way you look at it!!!
No, I'm not kidding. I am absolutely serious. Explain how exactly Nascar requires less skill. I think a guy named Juan would disagree with you. Sure he never won an F1 championship but I seem to recall that he won a few races compared to just 2 in the same amount of seasons in NASCAR. You could also factor in that the NASCAR season is nearly twice as long which translates to more opportunities to win races per season. How many times in the history of formula one have they had 2 cars cross the finish line side by side to end the race? I know in NASCAR it happens a few times a year and its um, like exciting to watch. How many times in F1 have they managed to battle side by side for more than 30 seconds? In NASCAR its fairly commonplace to have side by side battles last for 20 or more laps (depending on which track this is potentially 10 or more minutes). What happens if two F1 cars go off into the corner side by side and the guy on the inside makes some contact with the guy on the outside? They usually wreck... In NASCAR, sometimes they wreck, but even when they do, the majority of the time the cars can be repaired and continue on. For a specific example though, a couple weeks ago, Jeff Gordon ran down Kyle Busch at Phoenix and made contact off and on for about a half a lap before he completed the pass. Neither car "wrecked". I guess the only thing you are actually right about is that there isn't really a comparison to be made-NASCAR is just better.
BS is BS, any way you look at it!!!
On topic: I actively watched F1, IRL, CART and all the NASCAR touring series races for 5-6 years. That said, I feel fairly qualified to compare the two styles of racing. I just prefer the excitement of NASCAR. I've even attended several races (not F1 but a couple CART, IRL and NASCAR events each). I can see where people think NASCAR is boring in that they race too many 1.5+ mile tracks and the field gets spread out and they have really long green runs. The track closest to where I live is a terrible track to watch races at because its 2 miles and like 80 feet wide. The only positive is that you can see the whole track at all times. I've been to some road and street course races and they suck. You only get to see the cars for one short area per lap and the rest you are basically just watching TV.
BS is BS, any way you look at it!!!
Nascar has to be one of the worst motorsports on the planet. To think that a sport ever could have evolved from some backwoods bootlegers driving their family sedans in circles is beyond me. They went from using production cars to full one off tube chassis cars. I would much rather watch races between Ferrari and Porsche, then races between Chevy and Dodge. F1 is rather lame as well.
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BUWGR Highlander GRWUB
UBSquee's Shapeshifting PetBU
BW Multiplayer Control WB
RG Changeling GR
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UMerfolkU
B MBMC B
I hope to see Schumi do well. I'd like to think he's got at least one win left in him.
In regards to formula 1, it is changing, I think the management has finally started to get off this "safety first" run which has been the demise of the sport for many years. It isn't futile though, it served a purpose. It's time to return the grassroots of F1 and let racing be racing.
As much as I would love to see F1 in america, I think the biggest problem is, the grand prix cars are no longer really cars. Sure they have 4 wheels, but they are more like planes than they are cars it seems like.
I'm not trying to offend Nascar fans with this next paragraph.
To me it seems that it's because of this F1 cannot really appeal to the masses in america because Nascar = cars F1 = ????. I find it laughable that NASCAR still uses the word "stock" in it's title.
As far as comparing NASCAR to F1 in terms of cars, you just can't. F1 cars are unbridled machines of technological prowess. They show what the can happen at the pinnacle of 4 wheel racing. However they are also weak machines. In that they are extremely Dependant on humans. They have to be fine tuned for each race for every condition possible.
I can promise you f1 engines have the power to keep up with a nascar car, and if tuned to prevent downforce and favor major drag they would not only smoke off the line with such tremendous speed, once the slinging would go around it would be hard pressed to keep up. Then again, f1 cars are lighter, and in no way be compared directly.
There are many F1 drivers who jump ship for NASCAR, better glamour, better glory.
I think the thing that I find most off-putting about F1 is that they issue "team orders" at times and manufacture the results instead of earning them through competition. This kind of stuff does not happen in NASCAR. Just last year Jeff Gordon and Jimmie Johnson (teammates) were bangin each other at Texas and talkin ☺☺☺☺ on the radio. They were both running top 5 all race long and their tempers were flaring at each other a bit. They made quite a bit of contact too, which could have cost them both DNF's. The ironic thing is that not only are they teammates, their cars are co-located in one shop and Jeff Gordon is part owner of Jimmie Johnson's car.
BS is BS, any way you look at it!!!
Out of the current team in f1, Ferrari is the only one I get the vibe from now that doesn't give equal treatment to their drivers.
Sure the other teams may have variance in pay, but over all, I the attitudes are, we are two guys on the same team, we can race each other but not endanger the teams chances of winning because that's where the money comes from.
Also just because nascar RULES say no team orders, all teams, have orders. Remember these drivers are employees, and if the team boss says something has to happen it can.
Team orders in F1 happens when, the season is mid way through and you have to focus your materials on one driver who may be leading over another to insure the best possible victory for THE TEAM, not the driver.
Gimme a friggin break!!!
OTOH, the NASCAR race at Fontana this weekend was much more exciting. There were 2 lead changes in the final 3 laps of the race, including a last lap pass for the win.
Hell, even the Indy Car series here started double file restarts this season to provide some excitement. Maybe F1 should take a few hints...
BS is BS, any way you look at it!!!
Vettel led the race he's a pole machine, he's in a superior car, what do you expect?
The rest of the field was scrapping and I doubt you know the history of the Australian Gran Prix is also not the best way to judge the outcome of the rest of the season either.
You obviously didn't watch it but congrats on googling something on the F1 website. You didn't see the scraps between Button and Massa as well as Vettel and Button.
You like most of america is so obsessed with Winning only and anything below that is worthless and inferior that you put blinders on to the rest of the sport. Nascar is droning and boring. You clearly didn't watch 2010 season either. (By the way I live here so I can call out my country on its BULL crap)
I don't watch nascar but that's why I won't go farther than I do when talking about it. I DON'T FIND OVAL RACING INTERESTING. I like road courses. And not just 3-4 a season.
It's ok though, I doubt any of your burger eating nascar road kings could handle f1. Because they would have to lose 30% of their body weight.
If I am so obsessed with "winning", why wouldn't I be watching that Robot Racing BS? One guy wins the pole, the race, leads virtually every lap... OTOH, in the Real Racing world of NASCAR, there were 15-20 lead changes at a fairly monotonous racetrack. The margin of victory at the end was 0.14 seconds. That definitely sounds more exciting than seeing the first car finish and having time to go take a piss and still not miss the second car finish.
And what does that "I live here" line have to do with anything? Are you saying because you live somewhere specific that you are entitled to cast an opinion and someone else is not because maybe they don't live there too? You can for sure stick that angle...
@ Satanic username: what does foad mean? Is that like a flame that just didn't get spelled out?
EDIT: So as not to double post (like some F1 fan), I will merely add this- NASCAR race at Martinsville today. 500 laps of awesomeness. Had a record number of lead changes today (quite amazing since they have been racing there since 1949) and an exciting finish. What did F1 do today? Maybe they were too busy watching NASCAR...
BS is BS, any way you look at it!!!