Yes, after calling it "D&D Next" for the longest time, in the end they did decide just to call it 5th Edition.
The free pdf of the "basic rules" is here. Includes humans, elves, dwarves, and halflings, fighters, rogues, clerics, and wizards. If you want more, well, WotC wants your money, so maybe you and they can come to some sort of arrangement for an exchange.
My basic summary: Though it's definitely informed by 4th Edition mechanically, it's very much a callback to the feel of 2nd and 3rd. The differences from those two editions mainly lie in balance changes and in streamlining rule adjudication for faster, more intuitive play. I'd call the approach "less quantitative, more qualitative". So it's far, far away from hardcore simulationism; fans of nitty-gritty systems like GURPS will find it rather lightweight. WotC were clearly conscious of D&D's status as the iconic or introductory RPG, and placed a very high priority on making it accessible to newbies. In fact, I'm pretty certain this is the RPG I'd use to introduce the genre to almost any gaming group. But it's still, like 2nd and 3rd, essentially simulationist - full of "messy" asymmetries and quirks. People who prefer 4th Edition for its more gamist, clean, balance-first philosophy may be disappointed by the retrogression. And so the cycle is complete once more.
It's pretty similar to the final playtest materials that we're using for this season of Encounters. The system is very streamlined so you spend more time roleplaying and exploring than calculating things or deciding which powers to use. Also, it's open-ended enough to allow your group to play whatever way is best for them. My group likes to use a mat and minis for exploring indoor spaces so we can make the most out of our movement actions but you don't need to use those things.
The PDF of the Basic Rules looks great and gives the bones of what you need to know about Next(I probably won't call it 5th at this point). The changes to the classes are pretty small and reflect the ability to play until level 20. I really want to see the PHB because I'm using a Tiefling in Encounters and want to know if there will be rules for use of wings or tails. I'm pretty sure that Tiefling and Dragonborn are staying core races and I think Gnomes might return to core. Also, can't wait to see the new Monster Manual. The new stat blocks are easy to understand so even the newest DM shouldn't have a hard time reading each entry.
IMO the lightness of the system is so that the setting of the campaign you're in or running will add flavor and complexity to the game rather than the rules or core mechanics. 3E(e.g. the enormous library of OGL supplments) and 4E(e.g. D&D Insider) had a lot of additives and that often caused problems for DMs and made playing very clunky and unfun at times. Plus, there's a feeling of inclusiveness that I've never felt from any other edition I've played. Many people in my Encounters group are veteran players but a handful are new to D&D and Next's easy character creation(or Wizard's surprisingly good pregens) and game mechanics have closed the knowledge gap.
My group likes to use a mat and minis for exploring indoor spaces so we can make the most out of our movement actions but you don't need to use those things.
Yeah, it's even more like 2E than 3E in that respect. No assumption of grid squares at all.
I'm pretty sure that Tiefling and Dragonborn are staying core races and I think Gnomes might return to core.
From the text, I'd say I'm 95% confident gnomes are coming back and 80% confident about tiefs and dragonborn. They're all mentioned in the fluff with some regularity, gnomes more so than the others. And tiefs and dragonborn are pretty popular overall. I also expect to see drow.
IMO the lightness of the system is so that the setting of the campaign you're in or running will add flavor and complexity to the game rather than the rules or core mechanics. 3E(e.g. the enormous library of OGL supplments) and 4E(e.g. D&D Insider) had a lot of additives and that often caused problems for DMs and made playing very clunky and unfun at times.
I think it's too early to evaluate how WotC handles the expansion of 5th. They may yet put out just as many fiddly splatbooks as 2nd, 3rd and 4th. And mention of the eldritch knight and arcane trickster in the basic rules (p. 81) indicate that prestige classes are making a return, which I'm... cautious about. On the other hand, WotC has acknowledged that splat inflation was a problem in previous editions, and said they're going to be much more conservative releasing that kind of material. The acknowledgment is a good sign, but really only time will tell if they do it.
Plus, there's a feeling of inclusiveness that I've never felt from any other edition I've played. Many people in my Encounters group are veteran players but a handful are new to D&D and Next's easy character creation(or Wizard's surprisingly good pregens) and game mechanics have closed the knowledge gap.
Yeah. I think a good group can get newbies up to speed on just about any system - I DMed 4th Edition for a couple years with a group of mostly first-time players, and we had a blast. To me, the most noticeable thing about 5th's approach is its accessibility for a group that's entirely first-timers. You can just pick up the book from the bookstore and go home to figure it out with your friends. You don't have to be inducted by veterans, shown how to roll and how to roleplay.
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Ill be honest, i feel the same sense of wonder with this little pdf that i did the first time i opened the 2e Handbook (and also the first time i opened te 3e handbook before i got all confused by the grids and all that)... now i just need the monk class because i want to [lay tiny halfling monks again...
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I assume its too early to say whether WotC will release a validating character generator? I know their attempt in 4.0 started out great and then turned to abysmal when they made it a subscription service. Alternatively, Are there any other sources that people use (aside from mathing it all out themselves) to generate characters that are likely to be updated for 5th edition?
I assume its too early to say whether WotC will release a validating character generator? I know their attempt in 4.0 started out great and then turned to abysmal when they made it a subscription service. Alternatively, Are there any other sources that people use (aside from mathing it all out themselves) to generate characters that are likely to be updated for 5th edition?
This is my biggest problem with most RPGs. If character creation and maintenance is overly complex, there needs to be a tool out there that isn't going to break the bank to use.
I assume its too early to say whether WotC will release a validating character generator? I know their attempt in 4.0 started out great and then turned to abysmal when they made it a subscription service. Alternatively, Are there any other sources that people use (aside from mathing it all out themselves) to generate characters that are likely to be updated for 5th edition?
This is my biggest problem with most RPGs. If character creation and maintenance is overly complex, there needs to be a tool out there that isn't going to break the bank to use.
Agreed. If I could pay a one time fee of $15-$20 for a character generator program, I'd be more than happy to do it. What I won't do, is pay an ongoing subscription for one, especially a crappy one like the sub based 4e one.
Agreed. If I could pay a one time fee of $15-$20 for a character generator program, I'd be more than happy to do it. What I won't do, is pay an ongoing subscription for one, especially a crappy one like the sub based 4e one.
We ended up using a third party program for Pathfinder, but just getting the stuff we wanted was about $80 (it included four licenses... there are five or six of us who played regularly). Don't recommend it unless you're seriously into the game. I didn't like the restrictiveness of it.
But yeah, if you're going to release a game that no individual human being is going to be able to track EVERYTHING from every book on, you should probably release some sort of character manager free of charge. Especially when we're paying textbook prices for the rulebooks.
We ended up using a third party program for Pathfinder, but just getting the stuff we wanted was about $80 (it included four licenses... there are five or six of us who played regularly). Don't recommend it unless you're seriously into the game. I didn't like the restrictiveness of it.
I'm not, so I probably wouldn't buy it, but do you mind if I ask which one you used? I know pathfinder is different in that it is under the OGL (or at least some of it is) so they can't restrict others from making things like that to a certain extent.
We ended up using a third party program for Pathfinder, but just getting the stuff we wanted was about $80 (it included four licenses... there are five or six of us who played regularly). Don't recommend it unless you're seriously into the game. I didn't like the restrictiveness of it.
I'm not, so I probably wouldn't buy it, but do you mind if I ask which one you used? I know pathfinder is different in that it is under the OGL (or at least some of it is) so they can't restrict others from making things like that to a certain extent.
Herolab from Lone Wolf Development. It was the only was that seemed remotely professional (as in, not a spreadsheet with macros).
I assume its too early to say whether WotC will release a validating character generator?
The short answer to your question is yes, it's too early to say. They're being very careful about not making premature announcements, after the extended debacle that was 4th Edition digital.
Honestly, though, 4th Edition was very clearly written from the ground up to be computer friendly. 5th is, again, going back to that 2nd/3rd paradigm where things are... more organic. So if they have digital plans, they're not enough of a priority to design around. On the other hand, the core math is simpler. And they've said they're going to aggressively avoid content and modifier glut; I can't say just from the basic rules whether that's actually the case, but if it is then that should help the situation.
Herolab from Lone Wolf Development. It was the only was that seemed remotely professional (as in, not a spreadsheet with macros).
Not that there's anything wrong with spreadsheets with macros. Over here we've honestly never found 3E/Pathfinder complicated enough to need computerized assistance*, but there's an amazing free character creator for GURPS, and also a pretty good one for Mutants & Masterminds 3E. I'm confident that if bLatch keeps his eye out, he'll be able to find a solid third-party product in the next couple of months as the game blossoms into full release. (What's up with the staggered core rulebook release, anyway?)
*For characters, anyway. I'm currently only playing online, so we use roll20.net and .txts in a Dropbox folder. 7/14/2014 4:47:15 PM
Especially when we're paying textbook prices for the rulebooks.
Oh, and there's that $50 price tag on each of the books. That's not cool. The Amazon preorder discounts are pretty good, though; bring them down into the range of where an RPG sourcebook is supposed to be.
Read first page. See mention of Ravenloft. Search for 5.0 Ravenloft campaign material. Cry myself to sleep.
Seriously though, I'm taking it as a sign that a ravenloft campaign setting will be released, or at least a reboot of I6. It might be easier to convert it by hand rather than wait though. After moving I learned my new group never played the Ravenloft campaign. I have to fix that.
As to the 5.0 system itself, I am impressed with the balance of the previous editions. It seems they really hit the high points of all editions, while keeping it simple for new players, and solving the ever present twenty minute turn issue.
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Lycanthropy Awareness Day.
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
I'm kinda excited and I might try starting up a player group... we almost did with 4.0 (and bought some books, bye cash! At least they where used) but the sheer ammount of stuff (like attack moves available) was a turn off to my friends who just wanted D&D.
I have not read all the free material but 'Now that's what I call D&D!' (TM). In other words it looks fairly simple, but modern, and 'advantage' seems both very liberating but maybe limiting. I already want to homebrew in a 'major advantage' and 'major disadvantage' but I'm not even playing yet.
About Ravenloft, man it would be nice, especially if it is mildly re-invented. Hopefully if TSR does not touch it, a third party will, or people will produce some really good web modules. I never played it, proper, but had some of the old ravenloft monster folios (?) so I peppered in Ravenloft monsters and ideas into our mainstream game, because I love gothic horror but not everyone wants to wake up in Transilvania.
Yes, after calling it "D&D Next" for the longest time, in the end they did decide just to call it 5th Edition.
Well they certainly couldn't have it being referred to as "Next" forever! After all, eventually "Next" will become the "Previous".
Kind of like how DipnDots is no longer the ice cream of the future
Now that we have the basic rules out there for free, has anyone had any success in finding a character generator? I'm sure someones made one by now, it just has maybe not proliferated enough for me to find it
I ran a Pathfinder game with my high school kids as a club for the spring semester last year. (I'm glad I didn't get any phone calls over that whole "Sell your soul to Asmodeus" thing. But, where else are they going to learn selling your soul is wrong? Sunday School? They don't teach that anymore!)
It was a little bit of a slipshod campaign on my part. But, I leveled them up quick and they defeated Zargon the Returner in the end. As they seemed to enjoy it, I was actually thinking about doing a must slower pace Ravenloft campaign this year (I have the 3rd Sword and Sorcery books). Do you think teaching them 5th edition would be worth it? They were a little shaky with the Pathfinder rules even by the end. Do you think it would be worth having them role up characters using this system and porting things over from 3rd? Or should I just stick with the devil I know? I'm a little worried about the fact this is new and I'd likely have to port over lots of things with them. But, that could be really exciting too.
What do you guys think?
I'm probably going to pitch the idea of using 5th either way; I'm just wondering how hard I should try and sell it to them.
Well, some Dark Lords are from Faerun, like Hazlik.
Ravenloft is tangentially connected to pretty much every Prime Material plane (it's kinda like Sigil in that regard). I'm sure they'd not permanently link it to just one. But, I could see them allowing characters and races from Ravenloft to migrate into Faerun, which is really all Shadowfell did mechanically (if I remember right).
Do you think it would be worth having them role up characters using this system and porting things over from 3rd? Or should I just stick with the devil I know? I'm a little worried about the fact this is new and I'd likely have to port over lots of things with them. But, that could be really exciting too.
What do you guys think?
I think if people are shaky on one set of rules, introducing them to a different set of rules halfway through the campaign is going to hurt far more than it might help.
Wait, are you saying they're making Ravenloft a part of Faerun?
The Plane of Shadow was never specifically a part of Faerûn. It was present in a larval form in Gygax's First Edition, which if anything would attach it to Greyhawk, but it's actually supposed to be present in all D&D campaign worlds so shadow magic can work. Indeed, it's supposed to connect the worlds, if you can navigate it well enough (hint: you can't). And since Ravenloft, too, is supposed to collect people from different campaign worlds, it's actually a natural fit conceptually. Also remember that this is just something I heard I-remember-not-where on the internet; by no means take it as gospel.
(Incidentally, does anyone know if the circumflex diacritic in "Faerûn" actually has a purpose, or was Greenwood just blindly aping Tolkien's orthography?)
But, I could see them allowing characters and races from Ravenloft to migrate into Faerun, which is really all Shadowfell did mechanically (if I remember right).
Lots of characters go in to Ravenloft, but only Vecna and Lord Soth have ever gotten out.
I think if people are shaky on one set of rules, introducing them to a different set of rules halfway through the campaign is going to hurt far more than it might help.
Well, it would be a new campaign, but -yes- I was thinking the same thing in that it might overload them.
I guess I was just more wondering if it would be easier to teach them 5th than it would be to solidify their knowledge of 3rd, since it sounds like 5th is meant to be easy to learn.
Lots of characters go in to Ravenloft, but only Vecna and Lord Soth have ever gotten out.
Well, those are the only Dark Lords to have gotten out, but heroes go in and out all of the time.
I clearly don't know what they're planning on doing, but having a PC available races -like the Shades for example- be native to Ravenloft and migrate to Faerun would seem to be alright within the lore. I'm pretty sure when a Dark Lord is defeated his realm has a chance to go back to the plane it was taken from.
However, I've only recently started going through the lore, and everything is either TSR or White Wolf; Wizards never published a Ravenloft book to my knowledge...
I guess I was just more wondering if it would be easier to teach them 5th than it would be to solidify their knowledge of 3rd, since it sounds like 5th is meant to be easy to learn.
Okay, yeah, a clean break is better. I'd float the idea by them. But I still wouldn't go for the hard sell.
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The free pdf of the "basic rules" is here. Includes humans, elves, dwarves, and halflings, fighters, rogues, clerics, and wizards. If you want more, well, WotC wants your money, so maybe you and they can come to some sort of arrangement for an exchange.
My basic summary: Though it's definitely informed by 4th Edition mechanically, it's very much a callback to the feel of 2nd and 3rd. The differences from those two editions mainly lie in balance changes and in streamlining rule adjudication for faster, more intuitive play. I'd call the approach "less quantitative, more qualitative". So it's far, far away from hardcore simulationism; fans of nitty-gritty systems like GURPS will find it rather lightweight. WotC were clearly conscious of D&D's status as the iconic or introductory RPG, and placed a very high priority on making it accessible to newbies. In fact, I'm pretty certain this is the RPG I'd use to introduce the genre to almost any gaming group. But it's still, like 2nd and 3rd, essentially simulationist - full of "messy" asymmetries and quirks. People who prefer 4th Edition for its more gamist, clean, balance-first philosophy may be disappointed by the retrogression. And so the cycle is complete once more.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
The PDF of the Basic Rules looks great and gives the bones of what you need to know about Next(I probably won't call it 5th at this point). The changes to the classes are pretty small and reflect the ability to play until level 20. I really want to see the PHB because I'm using a Tiefling in Encounters and want to know if there will be rules for use of wings or tails. I'm pretty sure that Tiefling and Dragonborn are staying core races and I think Gnomes might return to core. Also, can't wait to see the new Monster Manual. The new stat blocks are easy to understand so even the newest DM shouldn't have a hard time reading each entry.
IMO the lightness of the system is so that the setting of the campaign you're in or running will add flavor and complexity to the game rather than the rules or core mechanics. 3E(e.g. the enormous library of OGL supplments) and 4E(e.g. D&D Insider) had a lot of additives and that often caused problems for DMs and made playing very clunky and unfun at times. Plus, there's a feeling of inclusiveness that I've never felt from any other edition I've played. Many people in my Encounters group are veteran players but a handful are new to D&D and Next's easy character creation(or Wizard's surprisingly good pregens) and game mechanics have closed the knowledge gap.
From the text, I'd say I'm 95% confident gnomes are coming back and 80% confident about tiefs and dragonborn. They're all mentioned in the fluff with some regularity, gnomes more so than the others. And tiefs and dragonborn are pretty popular overall. I also expect to see drow.
I think it's too early to evaluate how WotC handles the expansion of 5th. They may yet put out just as many fiddly splatbooks as 2nd, 3rd and 4th. And mention of the eldritch knight and arcane trickster in the basic rules (p. 81) indicate that prestige classes are making a return, which I'm... cautious about. On the other hand, WotC has acknowledged that splat inflation was a problem in previous editions, and said they're going to be much more conservative releasing that kind of material. The acknowledgment is a good sign, but really only time will tell if they do it.
Yeah. I think a good group can get newbies up to speed on just about any system - I DMed 4th Edition for a couple years with a group of mostly first-time players, and we had a blast. To me, the most noticeable thing about 5th's approach is its accessibility for a group that's entirely first-timers. You can just pick up the book from the bookstore and go home to figure it out with your friends. You don't have to be inducted by veterans, shown how to roll and how to roleplay.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
This is my biggest problem with most RPGs. If character creation and maintenance is overly complex, there needs to be a tool out there that isn't going to break the bank to use.
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Agreed. If I could pay a one time fee of $15-$20 for a character generator program, I'd be more than happy to do it. What I won't do, is pay an ongoing subscription for one, especially a crappy one like the sub based 4e one.
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We ended up using a third party program for Pathfinder, but just getting the stuff we wanted was about $80 (it included four licenses... there are five or six of us who played regularly). Don't recommend it unless you're seriously into the game. I didn't like the restrictiveness of it.
But yeah, if you're going to release a game that no individual human being is going to be able to track EVERYTHING from every book on, you should probably release some sort of character manager free of charge. Especially when we're paying textbook prices for the rulebooks.
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[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
I'm not, so I probably wouldn't buy it, but do you mind if I ask which one you used? I know pathfinder is different in that it is under the OGL (or at least some of it is) so they can't restrict others from making things like that to a certain extent.
Herolab from Lone Wolf Development. It was the only was that seemed remotely professional (as in, not a spreadsheet with macros).
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
Honestly, though, 4th Edition was very clearly written from the ground up to be computer friendly. 5th is, again, going back to that 2nd/3rd paradigm where things are... more organic. So if they have digital plans, they're not enough of a priority to design around. On the other hand, the core math is simpler. And they've said they're going to aggressively avoid content and modifier glut; I can't say just from the basic rules whether that's actually the case, but if it is then that should help the situation.
Not that there's anything wrong with spreadsheets with macros. Over here we've honestly never found 3E/Pathfinder complicated enough to need computerized assistance*, but there's an amazing free character creator for GURPS, and also a pretty good one for Mutants & Masterminds 3E. I'm confident that if bLatch keeps his eye out, he'll be able to find a solid third-party product in the next couple of months as the game blossoms into full release. (What's up with the staggered core rulebook release, anyway?)
*For characters, anyway. I'm currently only playing online, so we use roll20.net and .txts in a Dropbox folder.
7/14/2014 4:47:15 PM
Oh, and there's that $50 price tag on each of the books. That's not cool. The Amazon preorder discounts are pretty good, though; bring them down into the range of where an RPG sourcebook is supposed to be.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
Seriously though, I'm taking it as a sign that a ravenloft campaign setting will be released, or at least a reboot of I6. It might be easier to convert it by hand rather than wait though. After moving I learned my new group never played the Ravenloft campaign. I have to fix that.
As to the 5.0 system itself, I am impressed with the balance of the previous editions. It seems they really hit the high points of all editions, while keeping it simple for new players, and solving the ever present twenty minute turn issue.
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
Level 1 Judge (yay)
I have not read all the free material but 'Now that's what I call D&D!' (TM). In other words it looks fairly simple, but modern, and 'advantage' seems both very liberating but maybe limiting. I already want to homebrew in a 'major advantage' and 'major disadvantage' but I'm not even playing yet.
About Ravenloft, man it would be nice, especially if it is mildly re-invented. Hopefully if TSR does not touch it, a third party will, or people will produce some really good web modules. I never played it, proper, but had some of the old ravenloft monster folios (?) so I peppered in Ravenloft monsters and ideas into our mainstream game, because I love gothic horror but not everyone wants to wake up in Transilvania.
www.theconnoisseurs.com
Well they certainly couldn't have it being referred to as "Next" forever! After all, eventually "Next" will become the "Previous".
Word is they've got big plans for the Ravenloft setting. But they're not gonna put any of it out in the free sample.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
Kind of like how DipnDots is no longer the ice cream of the future
Now that we have the basic rules out there for free, has anyone had any success in finding a character generator? I'm sure someones made one by now, it just has maybe not proliferated enough for me to find it
If they want my money, all they got to do is ask.
Any idea what these "big plans" are?
Hoping for a cure, or at least an outbreak.
Level 1 Judge (yay)
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
It was a little bit of a slipshod campaign on my part. But, I leveled them up quick and they defeated Zargon the Returner in the end. As they seemed to enjoy it, I was actually thinking about doing a must slower pace Ravenloft campaign this year (I have the 3rd Sword and Sorcery books). Do you think teaching them 5th edition would be worth it? They were a little shaky with the Pathfinder rules even by the end. Do you think it would be worth having them role up characters using this system and porting things over from 3rd? Or should I just stick with the devil I know? I'm a little worried about the fact this is new and I'd likely have to port over lots of things with them. But, that could be really exciting too.
What do you guys think?
I'm probably going to pitch the idea of using 5th either way; I'm just wondering how hard I should try and sell it to them.
Ravenloft is tangentially connected to pretty much every Prime Material plane (it's kinda like Sigil in that regard). I'm sure they'd not permanently link it to just one. But, I could see them allowing characters and races from Ravenloft to migrate into Faerun, which is really all Shadowfell did mechanically (if I remember right).
The Plane of Shadow was never specifically a part of Faerûn. It was present in a larval form in Gygax's First Edition, which if anything would attach it to Greyhawk, but it's actually supposed to be present in all D&D campaign worlds so shadow magic can work. Indeed, it's supposed to connect the worlds, if you can navigate it well enough (hint: you can't). And since Ravenloft, too, is supposed to collect people from different campaign worlds, it's actually a natural fit conceptually. Also remember that this is just something I heard I-remember-not-where on the internet; by no means take it as gospel.
(Incidentally, does anyone know if the circumflex diacritic in "Faerûn" actually has a purpose, or was Greenwood just blindly aping Tolkien's orthography?)
Lots of characters go in to Ravenloft, but only Vecna and Lord Soth have ever gotten out.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
I guess I was just more wondering if it would be easier to teach them 5th than it would be to solidify their knowledge of 3rd, since it sounds like 5th is meant to be easy to learn.
Well, those are the only Dark Lords to have gotten out, but heroes go in and out all of the time.
I clearly don't know what they're planning on doing, but having a PC available races -like the Shades for example- be native to Ravenloft and migrate to Faerun would seem to be alright within the lore. I'm pretty sure when a Dark Lord is defeated his realm has a chance to go back to the plane it was taken from.
However, I've only recently started going through the lore, and everything is either TSR or White Wolf; Wizards never published a Ravenloft book to my knowledge...
Oh, I -technically- stand corrected, I guess Wizards did make one.
Okay, yeah, a clean break is better. I'd float the idea by them. But I still wouldn't go for the hard sell.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.