WW's jungle sustain was and never will be an issue, and feral flare isn't strong enough to make him good. Even with flare he's mediocre at farming compared to other junglers, and his pre-6 game is nonexistent. Compare him to Vi: both want to sit in jungle and hit 6 asap, but thanks to Vi W she kills buffs faster and thanks to her E she kills small camps faster, and thanks to her passive she's as safe as WW. Then if she feels the need to do something in a lane pre-6, her Q makes her better at that than WW. Then after 6, WW ult can be interrupted (this is especially important if you get counterganked) meanwhile Vi ult is very reliable and has a much longer range both on its own and coupled with her Q.
She also does more damage in ganks, she's pretty much better than WW in every way really. Makes almost as good of use of flare too.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Virtue, Jacques, is an excellent thing. Both good people and wicked people speak highly of it..."
WW's jungle sustain was and never will be an issue, and feral flare isn't strong enough to make him good. Even with flare he's mediocre at farming compared to other junglers, and his pre-6 game is nonexistent. Compare him to Vi: both want to sit in jungle and hit 6 asap, but thanks to Vi W she kills buffs faster and thanks to her E she kills small camps faster, and thanks to her passive she's as safe as WW. Then if she feels the need to do something in a lane pre-6, her Q makes her better at that than WW. Then after 6, WW ult can be interrupted (this is especially important if you get counterganked) meanwhile Vi ult is very reliable and has a much longer range both on its own and coupled with her Q.
She also does more damage in ganks, she's pretty much better than WW in every way really. Makes almost as good of use of flare too.
Thanks for the advice I'm just looking for a fun jungler in general, not really sure who fits the bill Maybe Vi?
I actually disagree. It's true that Vi has a very strong early game with heavy nuking potential, but outside of lockup specialized ultimates her and warwick aren't comparable at all. Warwick just does enormous sustained damage and becomes very difficult to kill late game. He can get a decent mix of AD and magic damage going, and his regen allows him to get very tanky. With Wit's End and Feral Flare he can outduel most champions and his ultimate actually does end up doing tons of damage. Throw a visage and a sunfire cape on him and his innate stats and go to town. If you have a team who wants to hold early, and transition into successful mid->late after farming hard, then WW does that well. He also isn't particularly bad at anything anymore.
Wow. After my last match, I know why people say Vayne players have the worst attitude in the game. I haven't seen anything like this since I was maybe level 15. Hopefully, the rest of my team reported her.
I actually disagree. It's true that Vi has a very strong early game with heavy nuking potential, but outside of lockup specialized ultimates her and warwick aren't comparable at all. Warwick just does enormous sustained damage and becomes very difficult to kill late game. He can get a decent mix of AD and magic damage going, and his regen allows him to get very tanky. With Wit's End and Feral Flare he can outduel most champions and his ultimate actually does end up doing tons of damage. Throw a visage and a sunfire cape on him and his innate stats and go to town. If you have a team who wants to hold early, and transition into successful mid->late after farming hard, then WW does that well. He also isn't particularly bad at anything anymore.
This. The only thing that I think Vi has on WW anymore is her pre-six ganking. Past that, WW does pretty much everything that Vi does, and with FF, his ult hits like a truck. WW is such an insanely good tank late game, and the power on his E for chasing people down is so underrated.
I actually disagree. It's true that Vi has a very strong early game with heavy nuking potential, but outside of lockup specialized ultimates her and warwick aren't comparable at all. Warwick just does enormous sustained damage and becomes very difficult to kill late game. He can get a decent mix of AD and magic damage going, and his regen allows him to get very tanky. With Wit's End and Feral Flare he can outduel most champions and his ultimate actually does end up doing tons of damage. Throw a visage and a sunfire cape on him and his innate stats and go to town. If you have a team who wants to hold early, and transition into successful mid->late after farming hard, then WW does that well. He also isn't particularly bad at anything anymore.
Frankly outside of feral flare, most of those are pretty unimportant differences. Also I don't know why you're talking as though Vi can't become an insanely powerful tank & duelist...
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Virtue, Jacques, is an excellent thing. Both good people and wicked people speak highly of it..."
I actually disagree. It's true that Vi has a very strong early game with heavy nuking potential, but outside of lockup specialized ultimates her and warwick aren't comparable at all. Warwick just does enormous sustained damage and becomes very difficult to kill late game. He can get a decent mix of AD and magic damage going, and his regen allows him to get very tanky. With Wit's End and Feral Flare he can outduel most champions and his ultimate actually does end up doing tons of damage. Throw a visage and a sunfire cape on him and his innate stats and go to town. If you have a team who wants to hold early, and transition into successful mid->late after farming hard, then WW does that well. He also isn't particularly bad at anything anymore.
Frankly outside of feral flare, most of those are pretty unimportant differences. Also I don't know why you're talking as though Vi can't become an insanely powerful tank & duelist...
That wasn't the point of that post. Read the second sentence. WW and Vi perform different roles. Vi is early->midgame focused, WW is mid->late focused. WW is sustained DPS and chase/cleanup with some target lockup, Vi is hard engage anti-carry. If a fight drags on WW takes over, he works well with multiple threats. Vi works well with a pick lockdown team with supports such as annie or leona, but I would rather stick WW with a Karma or Lulu, and Shyvana or Trundle are WW's friends whereas Vi works better with Renek or Nid or some other heavy burst top laner. They're just different. If anything I would say that WW has supplanted Udyr and is more powerful than Udyr was. The point is you don't pick WW instead of Vi. If your team wants what Vi brings to the table, you pick Vi, if you want a champ that does what WW does pick WW. I love Vi and have done extremely well with her, and only rarely play WW. This isn't a fanboy thing. This is just what I've seen from WW since 4.5 hit.
She also does more damage in ganks, she's pretty much better than WW in every way really. Makes almost as good of use of flare too.
Except for the almighty late game scaling. Late game tank vi does next to nothing and late game damage Vi is flimsier than tissue paper. Meanwhile, a WW that builds 4 tank items and a BoTRK can pretty much solo half the enemy team by himself.
She also does more damage in ganks, she's pretty much better than WW in every way really. Makes almost as good of use of flare too.
Except for the almighty late game scaling. Late game tank vi does next to nothing and late game damage Vi is flimsier than tissue paper. Meanwhile, a WW that builds 4 tank items and a BoTRK can pretty much solo half the enemy team by himself.
This. I had a wick on my team today go full build:
She also does more damage in ganks, she's pretty much better than WW in every way really. Makes almost as good of use of flare too.
Except for the almighty late game scaling. Late game tank vi does next to nothing and late game damage Vi is flimsier than tissue paper. Meanwhile, a WW that builds 4 tank items and a BoTRK can pretty much solo half the enemy team by himself.
This. I had a wick on my team today go full build:
She also does more damage in ganks, she's pretty much better than WW in every way really. Makes almost as good of use of flare too.
Except for the almighty late game scaling. Late game tank vi does next to nothing and late game damage Vi is flimsier than tissue paper. Meanwhile, a WW that builds 4 tank items and a BoTRK can pretty much solo half the enemy team by himself.
This. I had a wick on my team today go full build:
Yeah, I figured it was probably Omen...though, Frozen Heart is really solid on WW, that CDR is really useful. Still, the health and active on Omen is incredible right now.
Eh I disagree that WW is very considerably better late - he does scale better but not that much. Whatever though.
Have you played with WW lately? He's so strong that he's bannable, even up to high elos. Meanwhile the few Vi nerfs she's gotten have made her a really risky pick, particularly since she's bad with Feral Flare, which is the best item they've released since preseason 3 Black Cleaver. I've been playing 4.5 more and I'm convinced that in the hands of a skilled player WW is stronger than Xin Zhao, who I have been unimpressed with despite the popularity. Also with the popularity of Lucian, Vi's anti carry role is less necessary than normal, as she is not particularly good at killing him especially with just a bit of peel, and can give her a face full of culling after disengaging. I love Vi, my winrate pre nerfs with her was about 87% this season across 15 games. I still think she's good. But claiming she's comparable to WW late game or better than him currently are both patently false.
Eh I disagree that WW is very considerably better late - he does scale better but not that much. Whatever though.
Have you played with WW lately? He's so strong that he's bannable, even up to high elos. Meanwhile the few Vi nerfs she's gotten have made her a really risky pick, particularly since she's bad with Feral Flare, which is the best item they've released since preseason 3 Black Cleaver. I've been playing 4.5 more and I'm convinced that in the hands of a skilled player WW is stronger than Xin Zhao, who I have been unimpressed with despite the popularity. Also with the popularity of Lucian, Vi's anti carry role is less necessary than normal, as she is not particularly good at killing him especially with just a bit of peel, and can give her a face full of culling after disengaging. I love Vi, my winrate pre nerfs with her was about 87% this season across 15 games. I still think she's good. But claiming she's comparable to WW late game or better than him currently are both patently false.
^ He's right. Warwick is at the second tier of broken Flare users, behind the Xin/Noct/Yi group, and in the hands of the right player he's very nearly as good. He's abusively strong right now.
He's got a lot going for him right now. Both ganking and counterjungling are limited in utility right now, compared to just power farming, which means that his dependency on getting level 6 isn't nearly as important as it was. He can turn on a Feral Flare fairly quickly. And he has a built in AS boost, which means that with just a Flare and a BoRK, his dps goes pretty bonkers - not even mentioning that his ult applies each of their on-hits five times. Get Wriggles asap, get some defenses, build a BoRK some time in midgame and build defense the rest of the way and he's virtually unkillable while dealing solid damage with strong utility.
It's a metagame for the jungle that is perfectly suited to his strengths. He's not necessarily BROKEN, but he's perfectly positioned to be the poster child for top tier but not actually broken junglers.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Thanks
With Feral Flare, isn't WW pretty good as well? Feral Flare gives him a lot of sustain.
Thanks Argentleman;)
WB Teysa token aggroBW (retired)
MAKING (Onmath, Numot, maybe something in Esper)
She also does more damage in ganks, she's pretty much better than WW in every way really. Makes almost as good of use of flare too.
Thanks for the advice I'm just looking for a fun jungler in general, not really sure who fits the bill Maybe Vi?
Thanks Argentleman;)
WB Teysa token aggroBW (retired)
MAKING (Onmath, Numot, maybe something in Esper)
My EDH Decks!
BUGDamia, Combo-Control QueenBUG
RGWort, the RampmotherRG
WWWKemba, Voltron ExtraordinaireWWW
UBDralnu, Pure ControlUB
URHail to the DracogeniusUR
BUG Dredge BUG]
WUBRG Storm WUBRG
UBR FaerieStalker UBR
EDH
Sygg, River Cutthroat (1vs1)
Maga, Traitor to Mortals (multiplayer)
This. The only thing that I think Vi has on WW anymore is her pre-six ganking. Past that, WW does pretty much everything that Vi does, and with FF, his ult hits like a truck. WW is such an insanely good tank late game, and the power on his E for chasing people down is so underrated.
That wasn't the point of that post. Read the second sentence. WW and Vi perform different roles. Vi is early->midgame focused, WW is mid->late focused. WW is sustained DPS and chase/cleanup with some target lockup, Vi is hard engage anti-carry. If a fight drags on WW takes over, he works well with multiple threats. Vi works well with a pick lockdown team with supports such as annie or leona, but I would rather stick WW with a Karma or Lulu, and Shyvana or Trundle are WW's friends whereas Vi works better with Renek or Nid or some other heavy burst top laner. They're just different. If anything I would say that WW has supplanted Udyr and is more powerful than Udyr was. The point is you don't pick WW instead of Vi. If your team wants what Vi brings to the table, you pick Vi, if you want a champ that does what WW does pick WW. I love Vi and have done extremely well with her, and only rarely play WW. This isn't a fanboy thing. This is just what I've seen from WW since 4.5 hit.
My EDH Decks!
BUGDamia, Combo-Control QueenBUG
RGWort, the RampmotherRG
WWWKemba, Voltron ExtraordinaireWWW
UBDralnu, Pure ControlUB
URHail to the DracogeniusUR
Except for the almighty late game scaling. Late game tank vi does next to nothing and late game damage Vi is flimsier than tissue paper. Meanwhile, a WW that builds 4 tank items and a BoTRK can pretty much solo half the enemy team by himself.
This. I had a wick on my team today go full build:
BoTRK
Frozen Mallet
Feral Flare
Spirit Visage
Frozen Heart
Randuin's Omen
Merc Treads
Never died.
WGURBLands!WGURB
WGUInfectWGU
Legacy Lands Primer
Top 8 SCG Oakland 2014
Helpdesk
My Cube on CubeTutor
I want him to teach me how to get a 7th item slot.
Oh, my bad. It was one or the other on the Frozen Heart, Omen. I think it was Omen.
WGURBLands!WGURB
WGUInfectWGU
Legacy Lands Primer
Top 8 SCG Oakland 2014
Helpdesk
My Cube on CubeTutor
Have you played with WW lately? He's so strong that he's bannable, even up to high elos. Meanwhile the few Vi nerfs she's gotten have made her a really risky pick, particularly since she's bad with Feral Flare, which is the best item they've released since preseason 3 Black Cleaver. I've been playing 4.5 more and I'm convinced that in the hands of a skilled player WW is stronger than Xin Zhao, who I have been unimpressed with despite the popularity. Also with the popularity of Lucian, Vi's anti carry role is less necessary than normal, as she is not particularly good at killing him especially with just a bit of peel, and can give her a face full of culling after disengaging. I love Vi, my winrate pre nerfs with her was about 87% this season across 15 games. I still think she's good. But claiming she's comparable to WW late game or better than him currently are both patently false.
My EDH Decks!
BUGDamia, Combo-Control QueenBUG
RGWort, the RampmotherRG
WWWKemba, Voltron ExtraordinaireWWW
UBDralnu, Pure ControlUB
URHail to the DracogeniusUR
^ He's right. Warwick is at the second tier of broken Flare users, behind the Xin/Noct/Yi group, and in the hands of the right player he's very nearly as good. He's abusively strong right now.
What makes you think this? Have you had bad experiences with WW jungles post 4.5?
My EDH Decks!
BUGDamia, Combo-Control QueenBUG
RGWort, the RampmotherRG
WWWKemba, Voltron ExtraordinaireWWW
UBDralnu, Pure ControlUB
URHail to the DracogeniusUR
It's a metagame for the jungle that is perfectly suited to his strengths. He's not necessarily BROKEN, but he's perfectly positioned to be the poster child for top tier but not actually broken junglers.