I'm still turning over theory in my head. If you think it a time waster, you can go ahead and bomb me with kitten pictures, I just show them to my mum.
The question is: what makes you burn out - as a gamer - the fastest?
I'm not trying to load this question, actually, but I am aware that as bonafide gamers you need to know at least a little bit of my thinking anyway, to make sure you're not getting cornered, in any case: so...
...basically I'm thinking that the point of a game is to succeed without foreign theories in your head, theories that get in the way of your volition - volition which I think is great because you can't have enough or you can depending on what you want, if you've got enough, and it makes playing games easy, since you immediately know what you want - so a key concept, like how to stay focussed on the infinite continues Jesus gives you, is all you need to maximize gamage.... that's my thinking.
to be fair, my theology tells me that sin is the only thing which causes burnout, but there is something unique about the way gamers experience it which I am not aware of yet, which is something I want to find out... I've thought of calling it "downer"... or hey "downage"... but I am not really sure. the point is, it is something to do with volition getting sapped...
My question here is what do you mean by 'burnout'? Do you mean 'what makes you grow tired of a game'? 'What makes you grow sick of it'? 'What makes you switch games'? 'What makes you hate one?'
If it's just grow tired of a game, repetition kills a game for me rather quickly. The same act over and over.
I rarely grow sick of games or hate them, but any game that results in me unable to make progress through no fault of my own due to a puzzle with no reasonable solution or not enough information to process, a boss that's unreasonably strong for where you are in the game at that point, or a save point that makes you do something you're unprepared for that won't you leave will quickly result in me disliking a game simply due to bad game design.
As for switching, I generally switch games when I don't feel I can make any more progress. 'Progress' being a term in my head and a completely subjective one at that. In a game like Call of Duty, it's going to be me thinking I can't play any better or derive any more enjoyment out of playing well. In a game like Fez, lack of progress is an inability to solve a puzzle even with repeated attempts. Things of that nature.
Repetition. Games that don't immediately hook me makes me want to drop it.
Games that take along time to get places, such as some rpgs or open world games with hours of talking and travelling between each event makes me bored.
or a save point that makes you do something you're unprepared for that won't you leave will quickly result in me disliking a game simply due to bad game design.
I don't think that's necessarily bad game design. For example, I absolutely love that Mass Effect 2 has numerous events that spring up on you as you play that must be immediately resolved.
e.g. Collector ship attacks the Normandy and abducts your crew.
Almost all single player games revolve around the player. Nothing happens when you're not there to trigger it. Events like this generate a sense of urgency and make the game world feel a bit more real - it gives the illusion that you're a part of the world.
more than anything else, wholly-derivative gameplay. And I'm very willing to overlook the flaws of innovative games - I've recently enjoyed Dragon's Dogma and Odin Sphere and my favorite game is Demon's Souls.
Second mostly, being far too easy and spoon-feeding you in any way. I'm more tolerant of this but still will generally not like the game much unless it excels in some way - e.g. Okami is very easy because it was made with a wide (down to quite young) audience in mind, but among other things the art direction is so ******* fantastic that I don't mind.
When you combine the two, dropped as soon as possible.
Im more talking about things like pokemon red, where if you run out of money trying to find the gold teeth in the safari zone you can literally get into a position where you have no choice but to restart. Or a fps game where you get to the final boss with no ammo and no way to get any other than restarting the level because you just hit a checkpoint. Hali did tyat a lit, minus the boss bit.
#1: Forcing me to do tedious tasks that I do not want to do in order to access content that I want to access. Either grinding to get a higher experience level, or just forcing me to manually travel through an area for the tenth time. I'm not playing games to do this. If I wanted to do repetitive and boring action, I'm sure I could find a way to get paid for it. #2: Horrible camera angles, bad controls, and/or buggy walls. Witcher 2 was especially bad, the hardest non-permadeath difficulty setting was all about avoiding invisible branches that block your movement to avoid getting 1-shot by any enemy in the game. Dark Souls on PC has two these though, and I still played it through. #3: Being too easy. Especially bad in RPGs. I'm looking at you, Skyrim and Dishonored. First of these games was trivialized by leveling destruction to 50, at which point you could kill everything in the game without ever getting hit. The latter one was trivialized by getting Blink. Which you get automatically. In the first 30 minutes of gameplay. What's the point of character growth if it just makes the game easier, and therefore less enjoyable?
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The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
I don't know what you mean by "Burnout" so I'll assume you meant "not want toi okay anymore."
1) Bugs
Ever placed Marvel Vs Capcom 2? The game has some very well known bugs.
One of them is playing Ruby Heart. Do a fireball motion, press start. Game will freeze until someone resets the machine.
Now imagine this happening in the arcades. There you are, winning against all challengers, them someone decides you're "Cheap", plays Ruby Heart just to freeze the game.
Xcom had a particularly bad bug -- doors won't open bug. You're about to face the final boos, boom, doors simply refuse to open.
2) Loss of immersion
XCom is particularly bad in that #1 causes #2. For example, aliens teleport. Everytime they can't be seen. SDo, you can empty a room of aliens, and as you turn your back, boom, aliens are in the room. Or you're in a circle and the alien pops up in the middle.
#2 also includes things like finding ammo and food in crates. While older games didn't have a choice in the matter, newer games shouldn't be doing crap like that.
3) Pay to play/DLC
Of the more recent games I played, Dream House Story was a bad offender. I finished a playthough and was going, "what, that's it?" I look up FAQs and found out that 75$ of the characters and items in the game can only be obtained by playing real money. And it wasn't one time payment, either.
And Capcom really dropped tha ball with SFvT.
4) Bad controls
not as bad as it used to be during the NES era. Anyone who's played Castlevania knows what I mean
6) retracing
Again, not as bad as it used to be, but still pops up in RPGs, and most definitely still a major part of castlecaniametroid games.
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"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
1) Grinding. ala World of Warcraft. It's just one unfun grind that seems fun. It's addictive, but not fun.
2) Dumbed down games. Magic is starting to get into this realm for me. It used to be a tense, almost annoying but very difficult game to figure out. Now, not so much.
3) 'open' ended games, that aren't. GTA 1 WAS open ended, then after that, not so much. Again, relating to Magic, it seems the same way. It seems 'open' ended, but it's not.
#2 also includes things like finding ammo and food in crates. While older games didn't have a choice in the matter, newer games shouldn't be doing crap like that.
Crates are pretty common things to drop supplies to combat areas, and in general are used to transport goods all over. It didn't break my immersion at all to find food in crates in Skyrim. Finding same food in some tomb that has been sealed for centuries kind of did, though.
Private Mod Note
():
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The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
Im more talking about things like pokemon red, where if you run out of money trying to find the gold teeth in the safari zone you can literally get into a position where you have no choice but to restart. Or a fps game where you get to the final boss with no ammo and no way to get any other than restarting the level because you just hit a checkpoint. Hali did tyat a lit, minus the boss bit.
Gotcha - yea, that kind of stuff used to be staples in old Point & Click Adventure games. Gotta love dead-ending your game because you didn't pick up a dead fish way back on the first screen.
Of the more recent games I played, Dream House Story was a bad offender. I finished a playthough and was going, "what, that's it?" I look up FAQs and found out that 75$ of the characters and items in the game can only be obtained by playing real money. And it wasn't one time payment, either.
And Capcom really dropped tha ball with SFvT.
This is a good point - the payment model can definitely make or break a game for me. I usually do that kind of research before I start playing a game these days, though. If it smells like Pay-to-Win, I'm out.
Making me as the player do stupid things. Good example: Mass Effect 2
Why the **** did I have to work with the Illusive Man? His organisation killed my entire team in a freak Mawlock accident. And **** the 'rogue cell' excuse. There are enough so-called 'rogue cells' in the series by that point that 95% of Cerberus consists of rogue cells. Furthermore: that asshat proves himself to be unreliable on multiple points, giving false info and whatnot.
Blatant story contradictions and contrivances.
The aforementioned abduction of the crew, for example. The ****? Why did my whole team suddenly go with me on that ******* shuttle. What were we doing? Having the required beach episode of the series? In no other place in the game did my entire team get off the ship, but the writers ****ed up in their *****ty attempt to put some drama and a feeling of time pressure in the game.
Obnoxious design: punishing players for what worked earlier without giving a good reason for why it shouldn't work now.
I quit this series because of the Von Karma case. Up to then, the stupid leaps of logic and whatnot had been fairly okay, and I was able to play the game without having to rush to a guide to find out the moon-logic of the designers. However, in this fight, they suddenly arbitrarily point to a boatload of contradictions and say "see those blatant errors? yeah, don't mention those" and when you do, you get docked points almost immediately. Furthermore, I suddenly got docked points as well for interrupting too many times, which is just unfair since you really need the "explain further" to find many of the contradictions in earlier statements.
Forced grinding. I don't mind grinding perse. Hell, I'm pretty much enjoying World of Tanks. However, I get sick of games telling me "yeah, you can't do this unless you grind a bit more". WoW got really bad at this in later expansions (see: everything after Burning Crusade). I breezed through the WotLK content, often soloing 5-man quests (DemoLock OP, nerf), did the non-heroic instances, found them too easy and wanted to try the heroic versions. However, then the LFG tool told me my ******* gearscore was not high enough for me to do those. **** that. If I want to try that, let me ******* tried that. The game did not ******* stop me in vanilla either when I tried to get into areas which were too high level for me! Furthermore: gear score is and will always be a ******* stupid system which says nothing about how well a character is played.
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We have laboured long to build a heaven, only to find it populated with horrors.
For me, as long as I have a goal, it's relatively easy to keep playing. I didn't really burn out on Skyrim until I finished the achievements (pre-expansions), I never got burnt out on WoW because I always had something to work towards, there was always either new content to progress through or achievements I haven't earned yet to keep me playing as long as I could (the community also helped to keep me from getting tired of it). The games I've gotten tired of were ones where I've just done everything (one of the reasons I started to shy away from console games) or games with a Pay-to-Win aspect.
The question is: what makes you burn out - as a gamer - the fastest?
I'm not trying to load this question, actually, but I am aware that as bonafide gamers you need to know at least a little bit of my thinking anyway, to make sure you're not getting cornered, in any case: so...
...basically I'm thinking that the point of a game is to succeed without foreign theories in your head, theories that get in the way of your volition - volition which I think is great because you can't have enough or you can depending on what you want, if you've got enough, and it makes playing games easy, since you immediately know what you want - so a key concept, like how to stay focussed on the infinite continues Jesus gives you, is all you need to maximize gamage.... that's my thinking.
to be fair, my theology tells me that sin is the only thing which causes burnout, but there is something unique about the way gamers experience it which I am not aware of yet, which is something I want to find out... I've thought of calling it "downer"... or hey "downage"... but I am not really sure. the point is, it is something to do with volition getting sapped...
...which is where burnout comes in.
ok, now I've come full circle (see?) Thoughts?
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
If it's just grow tired of a game, repetition kills a game for me rather quickly. The same act over and over.
I rarely grow sick of games or hate them, but any game that results in me unable to make progress through no fault of my own due to a puzzle with no reasonable solution or not enough information to process, a boss that's unreasonably strong for where you are in the game at that point, or a save point that makes you do something you're unprepared for that won't you leave will quickly result in me disliking a game simply due to bad game design.
As for switching, I generally switch games when I don't feel I can make any more progress. 'Progress' being a term in my head and a completely subjective one at that. In a game like Call of Duty, it's going to be me thinking I can't play any better or derive any more enjoyment out of playing well. In a game like Fez, lack of progress is an inability to solve a puzzle even with repeated attempts. Things of that nature.
My helpdesk should you need me.
Games that take along time to get places, such as some rpgs or open world games with hours of talking and travelling between each event makes me bored.
I don't think that's necessarily bad game design. For example, I absolutely love that Mass Effect 2 has numerous events that spring up on you as you play that must be immediately resolved.
e.g. Collector ship attacks the Normandy and abducts your crew.
Almost all single player games revolve around the player. Nothing happens when you're not there to trigger it. Events like this generate a sense of urgency and make the game world feel a bit more real - it gives the illusion that you're a part of the world.
Second mostly, being far too easy and spoon-feeding you in any way. I'm more tolerant of this but still will generally not like the game much unless it excels in some way - e.g. Okami is very easy because it was made with a wide (down to quite young) audience in mind, but among other things the art direction is so ******* fantastic that I don't mind.
When you combine the two, dropped as soon as possible.
My helpdesk should you need me.
Last of Us did that to me, I dunno, it just didn't suck me in and found it had extended periods that didn't interest me
#2: Horrible camera angles, bad controls, and/or buggy walls. Witcher 2 was especially bad, the hardest non-permadeath difficulty setting was all about avoiding invisible branches that block your movement to avoid getting 1-shot by any enemy in the game. Dark Souls on PC has two these though, and I still played it through.
#3: Being too easy. Especially bad in RPGs. I'm looking at you, Skyrim and Dishonored. First of these games was trivialized by leveling destruction to 50, at which point you could kill everything in the game without ever getting hit. The latter one was trivialized by getting Blink. Which you get automatically. In the first 30 minutes of gameplay. What's the point of character growth if it just makes the game easier, and therefore less enjoyable?
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
1) Bugs
Ever placed Marvel Vs Capcom 2? The game has some very well known bugs.
One of them is playing Ruby Heart. Do a fireball motion, press start. Game will freeze until someone resets the machine.
Now imagine this happening in the arcades. There you are, winning against all challengers, them someone decides you're "Cheap", plays Ruby Heart just to freeze the game.
Xcom had a particularly bad bug -- doors won't open bug. You're about to face the final boos, boom, doors simply refuse to open.
2) Loss of immersion
XCom is particularly bad in that #1 causes #2. For example, aliens teleport. Everytime they can't be seen. SDo, you can empty a room of aliens, and as you turn your back, boom, aliens are in the room. Or you're in a circle and the alien pops up in the middle.
#2 also includes things like finding ammo and food in crates. While older games didn't have a choice in the matter, newer games shouldn't be doing crap like that.
3) Pay to play/DLC
Of the more recent games I played, Dream House Story was a bad offender. I finished a playthough and was going, "what, that's it?" I look up FAQs and found out that 75$ of the characters and items in the game can only be obtained by playing real money. And it wasn't one time payment, either.
And Capcom really dropped tha ball with SFvT.
4) Bad controls
not as bad as it used to be during the NES era. Anyone who's played Castlevania knows what I mean
6) retracing
Again, not as bad as it used to be, but still pops up in RPGs, and most definitely still a major part of castlecaniametroid games.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
2) Dumbed down games. Magic is starting to get into this realm for me. It used to be a tense, almost annoying but very difficult game to figure out. Now, not so much.
3) 'open' ended games, that aren't. GTA 1 WAS open ended, then after that, not so much. Again, relating to Magic, it seems the same way. It seems 'open' ended, but it's not.
Crates are pretty common things to drop supplies to combat areas, and in general are used to transport goods all over. It didn't break my immersion at all to find food in crates in Skyrim. Finding same food in some tomb that has been sealed for centuries kind of did, though.
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
Gotcha - yea, that kind of stuff used to be staples in old Point & Click Adventure games. Gotta love dead-ending your game because you didn't pick up a dead fish way back on the first screen.
This is a good point - the payment model can definitely make or break a game for me. I usually do that kind of research before I start playing a game these days, though. If it smells like Pay-to-Win, I'm out.
Why the **** did I have to work with the Illusive Man? His organisation killed my entire team in a freak Mawlock accident. And **** the 'rogue cell' excuse. There are enough so-called 'rogue cells' in the series by that point that 95% of Cerberus consists of rogue cells. Furthermore: that asshat proves himself to be unreliable on multiple points, giving false info and whatnot.
Blatant story contradictions and contrivances.
Obnoxious design: punishing players for what worked earlier without giving a good reason for why it shouldn't work now.
Forced grinding. I don't mind grinding perse. Hell, I'm pretty much enjoying World of Tanks. However, I get sick of games telling me "yeah, you can't do this unless you grind a bit more". WoW got really bad at this in later expansions (see: everything after Burning Crusade). I breezed through the WotLK content, often soloing 5-man quests (DemoLock OP, nerf), did the non-heroic instances, found them too easy and wanted to try the heroic versions. However, then the LFG tool told me my ******* gearscore was not high enough for me to do those. **** that. If I want to try that, let me ******* tried that. The game did not ******* stop me in vanilla either when I tried to get into areas which were too high level for me! Furthermore: gear score is and will always be a ******* stupid system which says nothing about how well a character is played.
WURMiraclesRWU
UBRCruel ControlRBU
If you're having fun, I'm not.
Pauper: Burn
Modern: Burn
Legacy: Burn
EDH: Marath, Will of the Wild - Ramp/Combo | Anafenza the Foremost - French | Uril, the Miststalker - Voltron | Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury - Goodstuff
Ghost Council of Orzhov - Tokens | Lazav, Dimir Mastermind - Control | Isamaru, Hound of Konda - Tiny Leaders