Well normally health does counter true damage - it's the only thing that does. Problem with Vayne is Silver Bolts is percent true damage. There's no counter to that, other than trying to slow her attack speed so that it triggers less often.
Pretty much any form of scaling true damage is dangerous. The fact that it's 3 shots in order to hit you for 8% of your health doesn't even help when she's hitting you twice a second.
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I'm in the process of buying Janna, but I don't know if she has been any good as or better than Taric yet in the support lane. Has anyone been getting good games out of her?
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I'm in the process of buying Janna, but I don't know if she has been any good as or better than Taric yet in the support lane. Has anyone been getting good games out of her?
She's excellent and has a high skill ceiling, so there's lots of room to grow. Also super cheap. She's a must purchase, IMO.
I guess my problem with frozen heart is that usually they have more than enough attack speed to overcome the penalty. more so champs like vayne or other attack speed champs. IE they build multiple phantom dancers and they usually have a BC or something.
I don't like thornmail but it does provide a ton of armor and it has helped me kill auto attack champs before.
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Just finished a 4v5 as a free week miss fortune, I do have to admit that she is pretty fun. Our Skarner disconnected super early from the game, but we won our lanes anyways. Despite not having a smite, we managed to control the dragon and baron buffs and win that way. Their Caitlyn was almost impossible to catch, as she would never extend far enough into the fight for me to shoot her - two of her deaths came in the laning phase.
I guess my problem with frozen heart is that usually they have more than enough attack speed to overcome the penalty. more so champs like vayne or other attack speed champs. IE they build multiple phantom dancers and they usually have a BC or something.
I don't like thornmail but it does provide a ton of armor and it has helped me kill auto attack champs before.
Frozen Heart actually takes more total attack speed off a champion than 20% would add because the 20% reduction is applied last to the total number. It's confusing, but the general idea is that 40% bonus attack speed isn't going to make 1.0 into 1.4 attack speed but 20% reduction will turn 1.0 into 0.8.
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I guess my problem with frozen heart is that usually they have more than enough attack speed to overcome the penalty. more so champs like vayne or other attack speed champs. IE they build multiple phantom dancers and they usually have a BC or something.
I don't like thornmail but it does provide a ton of armor and it has helped me kill auto attack champs before.
The problem is thornmail doesn't really offer any additional utility, it just gives you alot of armor and punishes carries for focusing you. Unless you're rammus this isn't that useful because you can't force them to attack you long enough to be relevent.
Frozen heart on the other hand also gives you the "don't attack me ever," while giving you mana and cdr reduction. And Randuins just flat gives you a ton of survivability with health, health regen, similiar slow cc to frozen heart, and active slow, and 5% cdr for some reason.
Thornmail is easily countered with lifesteal or just not attacking you while they focus your carry (if your the carry and you build thornail you don't have the health for the damage to do anything.)
In my experience, at least irelia and a lot of the ap burst anticarries (akali if you can't get vision on her, fizz, kassadin).
And despite being highly mobile, Vayne has no real escapes. You can't just dive squishies in a teamfight until at least 2 are dead.
Well... all of her abilities besides silver arrows can double as escape mechanics, but yes you usually want to avoid having to use them that way. The thing is, you should ideally be able to use the stealth and your high mobility to position yourself to condemn the biggest threat (w/o merc treads) into a stun and just kill their carry. Otherwise save the condemn to cancel a gap closer or something. Creative use of tumble to position for bursting and also keep yourself out of danger is the key, but vayne is useless without being able to do the first and often that means you need some help from your team. You should not usually need to wait for people to die before you go in. As the ad carry, you're the person that's supposed to do the brunt of killing important targets, not wait and cleanup (although vayne is exceptional at that too).
I just lost going 20-7 with Irelia -.- I built Wits' End, Triforce, Mercs, Frozen Heart, Randuin's, and FoN (they had two AD carries). I would kill Kog'Maw and/or Sivir every teamfight, tanking everyone with like 300 health left, die to whoever, and then the rest of my team would lose. I guess some games you just can't carry. I don't think it's me; Irelia just doesn't carry as hard as Vayne. Although I realized afterward I should have bough GA; oh well.
You think vayne could've done better than that? That's pretty decent for irelia there. Killing two carries should tip the teamfight in your favor and carry pretty hard.
She's excellent and has a high skill ceiling, so there's lots of room to grow. Also super cheap. She's a must purchase, IMO.
Yea, plus she is currently better than taric at least against competent players. And she's really fun, imo.
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Frozen Heart actually takes more total attack speed off a champion than 20% would add because the 20% reduction is applied last to the total number. It's confusing, but the general idea is that 40% bonus attack speed isn't going to make 1.0 into 1.4 attack speed but 20% reduction will turn 1.0 into 0.8.
Exactly. Froheart is always a permanent 20% auto-attack damage reduction to the entire team enemy team, if you're within range. And even more if they're attacking you, it's got the highest armor on one item aside from thornmail.
There's no such thing as "having so much AS that it's not worth it".
Realistically I think it and randuins are both exceptional at shutting down a fed autoattacker (and that thornmail is very bad at it), and that which one you should get probably depends on which you can build more smoothly/whether you want the health or other stats... and of course whether your team already has one.
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"Virtue, Jacques, is an excellent thing. Both good people and wicked people speak highly of it..."
In my experience, at least irelia and a lot of the ap burst anticarries (akali if you can't get vision on her, fizz, kassadin).
Fizz and Akali sure, but they aren't too popular in ranked fortunately. Kassadin is better against APs, no? And Irelia might be close but Vayne is very strong against bruisers.
Well... all of her abilities besides silver arrows can double as escape mechanics, but yes you usually want to avoid having to use them that way. The thing is, you should ideally be able to use the stealth and your high mobility to position yourself to condemn the biggest threat (w/o merc treads) into a stun and just kill their carry. Otherwise save the condemn to cancel a gap closer or something. Creative use of tumble to position for bursting and also keep yourself out of danger is the key, but vayne is useless without being able to do the first and often that means you need some help from your team. You should not usually need to wait for people to die before you go in. As the ad carry, you're the person that's supposed to do the brunt of killing important targets, not wait and cleanup (although vayne is exceptional at that too).
Generally bruisers are supposed to do the killing of important targets because they can tank the enemy team long enough to get to them. Or assassins because they are mobile enough to catch the carries out of position. Vayne is sort of an assassin, but if they enemy team is coordinated they cc you when you come out of invis, and you're dead if you're in the middle of them all.
I don't just stay out of fights entirely; I focus the closest target I can unless I can catch a carry out of position.
You think vayne could've done better than that? That's pretty decent for irelia there. Killing two carries should tip the teamfight in your favor and carry pretty hard.
Kind of. It's more that I think we would have actually won the game if I could have stayed far away enough not to die every team fight. There were definitely other factors too, like that they somehow got two AD carries farmed up bot lane when we had support and AD.
Fizz and Akali sure, but they aren't too popular in ranked fortunately. Kassadin is better against APs, no? And Irelia might be close but Vayne is very strong against bruisers.
Kassadin is insanely strong against anyone squishy (and ideally without a reliable stun or snare).
Generally bruisers are supposed to do the killing of important targets because they can tank the enemy team long enough to get to them. Or assassins because they are mobile enough to catch the carries out of position. Vayne is sort of an assassin, but if they enemy team is coordinated they cc you when you come out of invis, and you're dead if you're in the middle of them all.
Which is why you need protection. She's not really an assassin anymore, she's a carry, and ideally you want to hit the big targets. Which happen to be squishy.
I don't just stay out of fights entirely; I focus the closest target I can unless I can catch a carry out of position.
Yea, which is what you should do. As long as you're not blowing cooldowns for them. But ideally, that shouldn't be happening for a large amount of a teamfight - that means you're not able to get good positioning, which is sometimes due to a lack of good protection. This is why I'm arguing that vayne needs it. If you can only jump into the fight after it's already won, you're not doing your job as a carry. Again, sometimes that's not your fault, but you're still not doing your job.
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"Virtue, Jacques, is an excellent thing. Both good people and wicked people speak highly of it..."
So over here we just got patched and are up to date (minus dominion, and the champs are locked out for a while)
That means i finally got to play new shen, results:
I was on my way to build thornmail but it was just counter measure i was dominating wherever i went.
They didnt post patch notes this time so people dont actually know he has been reworked yet.... which is another reason why i dont play ranked here...
But anyways from what i noticed the phage/frozen had a lasting effect i was constantly checking my energy i cannot imagine how a rylais would have been beneficial here , yes it didnt make my q slow but they never managed to shake me outside of ganks and even then i barely died.
so yay!
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First game of Summoner's Rift in months, 8-1-6. Still got it.
I get the feeling that Riot is keeping something big under the covers. With DOTA 2, GW2, and Diablo 3 all coming down the pipeline soon - they've gotta have some kind of player-retention-blitzkrieg in store. Will be interesting to see.
(yes, I know GW2 and D3 are different genres - but they are still multiplayer games and they are gonna pull a ton of people away from LOL)
First game of Summoner's Rift in months, 8-1-6. Still got it.
I get the feeling that Riot is keeping something big under the covers. With DOTA 2, GW2, and Diablo 3 all coming down the pipeline soon - they've gotta have some kind of player-retention-blitzkrieg in store. Will be interesting to see.
(yes, I know GW2 and D3 are different genres - but they are still multiplayer games and they are gonna pull a ton of people away from LOL)
Yea, I've been kind of wondering about this myself. Maybe they'll finally go ahead with the magma chamber or something.
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"Virtue, Jacques, is an excellent thing. Both good people and wicked people speak highly of it..."
I swear if I have to go up against another team of tanks I'm going to kill someone. Went up against a team with Nai that was Amumu, Volibear, Skarner, Naut, and Alistar and wanted to pull my hair out for the endless bloody CC chains.
Just got out of a game against Blitz, Naut, Singed, Ez, and some mid I can't remember. I dodged countless stupid grabs and hooks that game as well as allowed the carry I was support to completely out lane then, holding them to >10 CS each 15 minutes in, and yet none of it mattered. As soon as they started landing their damn grabs and hooks one of us would get hanked from mid lane to their turret and it was over with all the knock-ups and silences. Top didn't fair much better against Singed and Ez being constantly thrown around and slowed.
I left WoW because I got sick and tired of not being able to control my character from 100 to dead and now I'm getting that feeling in this game after dealing with these troll comps >.<
I feel like I need to invest in +movement quints for my Warwick jungle build. Warwick just doesn't seem like a solid ganker without the added movement speed from the quints on my rune page. Probably going to try 3 Swiftness Quints for the added 4.5% movement speed on my jungling rune page. Anybody else try this? Thoughts?
Assumptions ruin improvement. It's not that you're facing troll compositions, it's that you're assuming nothing can be done against them. Mercury treads, madred's bloodrazer, and split pushing all come to mind. Additionally, the first team sounds like it doesn't have an AD carry, you really shouldn't lose against that if you protect your own AD carry.
@jubileus
I've never found ganking to be WW's strong suit. I honestly don't think that the extra 4.5% is going to make that big of a difference if he doesn't have his ultimate up. I think I would rather spend my presix time counterjungling because WW's real strength is that he can do any camp at any level.
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Whether it's a comedy or a tragedy, if there is cheering, the story will continue on.
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But either way, Movement Speed Quintessences are easily worth the investment.
Only issue is that you'll have a hard time getting used to not use them, when you play champions that should be using other quints. I seriously feel like I'm walking in slow motion when I swap my MS Quints for Flat AD for ranged carries or Gold/Sec for supports.
Speaking of which, I need to buy some more rune pages. Wish they were a bit cheaper.
But either way, Movement Speed Quintessences are easily worth the investment.
Only issue is that you'll have a hard time getting used to not use them, when you play champions that should be using other quints. I seriously feel like I'm walking in slow motion when I swap my MS Quints for Flat AD for ranged carries or Gold/Sec for supports.
Speaking of which, I need to buy some more rune pages. Wish they were a bit cheaper.
I need to buy some pages too. I try and figure out who is playing what champion with the team before we queue. That way we can get optimal runes w/o spending so much.
The whole MS quint thing, I have that same problem with flash. When you have it, you have a secure feeling. Without it, I don't play quite as aggressive unless I have an extreme advantage.
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I've never found ganking to be WW's strong suit. I honestly don't think that the extra 4.5% is going to make that big of a difference if he doesn't have his ultimate up. I think I would rather spend my presix time counterjungling because WW's real strength is that he can do any camp at any level.
My friend recommended the +movement quints to make WW more gank-worthy pre-level 6. By 3 I see junglers usually moving into lanes to position for a gank. I would like to be able to do this with WW. I figured with the 3 Quints + Movement Speed 2 boots (at a minimum) + Initiator in the defense mastery tree I'll be looking at some healthy movement speed early game.
@Ellye: Remember back in the day when you had Gangplank builds with full rune pages of GP/Sec and you could deny your own minions with parlay? Those were the days.
Assumptions ruin improvement. It's not that you're facing troll compositions, it's that you're assuming nothing can be done against them. Mercury treads, madred's bloodrazer, and split pushing all come to mind. Additionally, the first team sounds like it doesn't have an AD carry, you really shouldn't lose against that if you protect your own AD carry.
I didn't say nothing could be done, although I can understand you getting that vibe. I was more or less just venting frustrations at the CC chains they have. As for the first comp with Nai it probobly didn't help we where trolling peopl with Jangle Looloo for funsies and encountered another troll comp.
Also from my experience it seems like Tenacity does nothing against things like knock-ups, such as blitz E, or Alistars Q, although it does lower the stun duration of Alistars Q. Not sure if that's just perception or not but that was the biggest issue against the 2nd team as we would get grabbed by blitz E, ulted by Naut, then grabbed and slowed by naut and ult by blitz at which point we where pretty much dead, especially if it was near a tower.
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Carry much?
Pretty much any form of scaling true damage is dangerous. The fact that it's 3 shots in order to hit you for 8% of your health doesn't even help when she's hitting you twice a second.
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She's excellent and has a high skill ceiling, so there's lots of room to grow. Also super cheap. She's a must purchase, IMO.
I don't like thornmail but it does provide a ton of armor and it has helped me kill auto attack champs before.
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Frozen Heart actually takes more total attack speed off a champion than 20% would add because the 20% reduction is applied last to the total number. It's confusing, but the general idea is that 40% bonus attack speed isn't going to make 1.0 into 1.4 attack speed but 20% reduction will turn 1.0 into 0.8.
Whether it's a comedy or a tragedy, if there is cheering, the story will continue on.
Just like the many lives.
For the us who are still in it and still in the journey, send warm blessings.
- We will continue to walk down this path until eternity.
The problem is thornmail doesn't really offer any additional utility, it just gives you alot of armor and punishes carries for focusing you. Unless you're rammus this isn't that useful because you can't force them to attack you long enough to be relevent.
Frozen heart on the other hand also gives you the "don't attack me ever," while giving you mana and cdr reduction. And Randuins just flat gives you a ton of survivability with health, health regen, similiar slow cc to frozen heart, and active slow, and 5% cdr for some reason.
Thornmail is easily countered with lifesteal or just not attacking you while they focus your carry (if your the carry and you build thornail you don't have the health for the damage to do anything.)
There's no such thing as "having so much AS that it's not worth it".
Realistically I think it and randuins are both exceptional at shutting down a fed autoattacker (and that thornmail is very bad at it), and that which one you should get probably depends on which you can build more smoothly/whether you want the health or other stats... and of course whether your team already has one.
Fizz and Akali sure, but they aren't too popular in ranked fortunately. Kassadin is better against APs, no? And Irelia might be close but Vayne is very strong against bruisers.
Generally bruisers are supposed to do the killing of important targets because they can tank the enemy team long enough to get to them. Or assassins because they are mobile enough to catch the carries out of position. Vayne is sort of an assassin, but if they enemy team is coordinated they cc you when you come out of invis, and you're dead if you're in the middle of them all.
I don't just stay out of fights entirely; I focus the closest target I can unless I can catch a carry out of position.
Kind of. It's more that I think we would have actually won the game if I could have stayed far away enough not to die every team fight. There were definitely other factors too, like that they somehow got two AD carries farmed up bot lane when we had support and AD.
Rasputin Dreamweaver EDH
That means i finally got to play new shen, results:
They didnt post patch notes this time so people dont actually know he has been reworked yet.... which is another reason why i dont play ranked here...
But anyways from what i noticed the phage/frozen had a lasting effect i was constantly checking my energy i cannot imagine how a rylais would have been beneficial here , yes it didnt make my q slow but they never managed to shake me outside of ganks and even then i barely died.
so yay!
I'm afraid that some picks could counter him pretty hard, though.
I get the feeling that Riot is keeping something big under the covers. With DOTA 2, GW2, and Diablo 3 all coming down the pipeline soon - they've gotta have some kind of player-retention-blitzkrieg in store. Will be interesting to see.
(yes, I know GW2 and D3 are different genres - but they are still multiplayer games and they are gonna pull a ton of people away from LOL)
Just got out of a game against Blitz, Naut, Singed, Ez, and some mid I can't remember. I dodged countless stupid grabs and hooks that game as well as allowed the carry I was support to completely out lane then, holding them to >10 CS each 15 minutes in, and yet none of it mattered. As soon as they started landing their damn grabs and hooks one of us would get hanked from mid lane to their turret and it was over with all the knock-ups and silences. Top didn't fair much better against Singed and Ez being constantly thrown around and slowed.
I left WoW because I got sick and tired of not being able to control my character from 100 to dead and now I'm getting that feeling in this game after dealing with these troll comps >.<
Assumptions ruin improvement. It's not that you're facing troll compositions, it's that you're assuming nothing can be done against them. Mercury treads, madred's bloodrazer, and split pushing all come to mind. Additionally, the first team sounds like it doesn't have an AD carry, you really shouldn't lose against that if you protect your own AD carry.
@jubileus
I've never found ganking to be WW's strong suit. I honestly don't think that the extra 4.5% is going to make that big of a difference if he doesn't have his ultimate up. I think I would rather spend my presix time counterjungling because WW's real strength is that he can do any camp at any level.
Whether it's a comedy or a tragedy, if there is cheering, the story will continue on.
Just like the many lives.
For the us who are still in it and still in the journey, send warm blessings.
- We will continue to walk down this path until eternity.
Only issue is that you'll have a hard time getting used to not use them, when you play champions that should be using other quints. I seriously feel like I'm walking in slow motion when I swap my MS Quints for Flat AD for ranged carries or Gold/Sec for supports.
Speaking of which, I need to buy some more rune pages. Wish they were a bit cheaper.
I need to buy some pages too. I try and figure out who is playing what champion with the team before we queue. That way we can get optimal runes w/o spending so much.
The whole MS quint thing, I have that same problem with flash. When you have it, you have a secure feeling. Without it, I don't play quite as aggressive unless I have an extreme advantage.
Plus, if if you feel like watching a few games: My Stream
I'm normally on most nights between 6pm-whenever.
My friend recommended the +movement quints to make WW more gank-worthy pre-level 6. By 3 I see junglers usually moving into lanes to position for a gank. I would like to be able to do this with WW. I figured with the 3 Quints + Movement Speed 2 boots (at a minimum) + Initiator in the defense mastery tree I'll be looking at some healthy movement speed early game.
@Ellye: Remember back in the day when you had Gangplank builds with full rune pages of GP/Sec and you could deny your own minions with parlay? Those were the days.
I didn't say nothing could be done, although I can understand you getting that vibe. I was more or less just venting frustrations at the CC chains they have. As for the first comp with Nai it probobly didn't help we where trolling peopl with Jangle Looloo for funsies and encountered another troll comp.
Also from my experience it seems like Tenacity does nothing against things like knock-ups, such as blitz E, or Alistars Q, although it does lower the stun duration of Alistars Q. Not sure if that's just perception or not but that was the biggest issue against the 2nd team as we would get grabbed by blitz E, ulted by Naut, then grabbed and slowed by naut and ult by blitz at which point we where pretty much dead, especially if it was near a tower.