You've been very constructive and interesting to talk to, but I'm not going to get into BTBAM unless they put an axe in their vocalist's head. The beginning of Selkies was fine, but once he starts growling, I'm out. If you want me to say they're talented musicians (except the vocalist) then I can agree with that, but I don't enjoy listening to them. I'd rather spend my time listening to bands I might actually be interested in.
Haha, don't worry. I know that BTBAM isn't for everyone. Heck, they're not even for me half the time either.
Haha, sorry, not going to agree with you on Silent man. It sounded even worse live, especially after Endless Sacrifice (which was probably the best song they played when I saw them, despite me shouting "Change of Seasons!" at the top of my lungs between every song. I can dream.) As far as quiet songs off "Awake" (or really off any of their discography), I'll take "Space-Dye Vest" any day.
I've always been an outlier in that I've never liked Space-Dye Vest as much as most Dream Theater fans. For that kind of song, I'll take Disappear.
I would totally agree with you if I was watching movies, but I disagree on music, for a few reasons.
First, because I think music involves a lot more personal preference than movies do. There are tons of highly-rated albums that I'm going to hate. For instance, I'm never going to buy any music infested with harsh vocals, but reviewers are reviewing it for the people who like that sort of thing. Out of all the music on earth, probably 80%+ of it is excluded from being on my favorites list just from the genre...I don't like country, I don't like pop, I don't like spiritual, I don't like hip-hop, I don't like rap...etc. With movies, I'm capable of loving just about anything if it's good enough.
While that's technically true, there's enough information out there that you're often still pretty able to filter the opinions of people who are into the same genre. Obviously you're not going to find any rap on ProgArchives, after all.
I guess I also treat movies differently than you, as well. If it's a raunchy romcom, I'm not gonna enjoy it no matter how well it's rated on RT.
Second, because I'm really looking for "hidden gems", as it were. It's always just a bit sweeter to find a band that I love when no one else knows about them. I believe I said something to that effect in the OP. Most "top album" lists are either some reviewer's list, limited by what they personally heard, or they require a certain # of reviews, or whatever. For instance, a band I keep mentioning, Eumeria - have you seen them on any lists you check? They've gotten solid reviews but they're relatively unknown.
Thirdly, I don't want to read other peoples' reviews lest they alter my opinions. I think a lot of peoples' opinions are altered by what they've heard about the band, and it all sort of sets off a chain of dominoes that make some bands much more popular than others, even if their talent is basically equal. And I'd like to avoid all of that as much as possible. Everyone starts from a blank slate in my "reviews".
To be honest, I think that's just silly. I wouldn't have found pretty much all the music I listen to today had it not been for reading other people's reviews and opinions. Otherwise, I'd still be listening to Creed. However, just because you're absorbing information doesn't mean you can't still think for yourself. For me, those opinions formed a pathway to discovery that lead me to find something that I'd been searching for, musically.
Besides, we're talking about Prog Metal here. It's never going to be "popular," aside from the brief bit of attention that Djent is currently receiving (and I'm also quite hesitant to call it prog metal, as well).
Fourthly, I can usually determine pretty quickly if I can skip the song for the bands that really suck (or just really don't appeal to me). So cropping off the "worst" 50% or so of bands doesn't save THAT much time, since most of my time is spent on the good bands. And cutting off more would increase the odds of missing someone good (or at least, that I personally can enjoy).
See, this is exactly where using the aggregated information available on the internet really helps. Because I was able to use that information, I haven't had to endure listening to purportedly "metal" bands with emo vocals. Your approach may crop 50%, but using the info available will probably crop 75%.
If I was really wanting to get fast results, I'd agree with you. But I'd rather dedicate the time, and put together a huge library. I think the risks I'm taking are the ones that give me the best odds of finding something exciting and unknown.
I hear what you're saying, but you're using methods which are diametrically opposed. You're talking about "being patient whilst sifting through thousands of bands" but also skipping a band entirely if you hear something you don't like after 20 seconds. You can't really have it both ways like that, especially given the size of the discographies of some bands out there where their sound has shifted fairly radically over time. Personally, I hated Train of Thought. The only song I like from it is Stream of Consciousness, but I detest the rest of that album because it sounds like Dream Theater trying to be something they're not.
Furthermore, you know what my introduction to Dream Theater was? A video of their cover of Master of Puppets. It's ****ing awful. If that had been the only Dream Theater song I'd ever heard... I can't say I never would have gotten into them, but it would have probably taken a few more years. Thankfully, someone then showed me the "Live at Budokan" version of Hollow Years, and I then understood that, "hmm, maybe these guys are worth checking out after all."
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FWIW, I checked out that Dreamscape song, and I didn't really care for it. It came nowhere near the level of A Change of Seasons or Octavarium personally. Sure, the musicianship was brilliant, but it didn't do the one thing which is a requirement of any great prog epic: it didn't take me on a journey.
I can't help but notice that there is only one band you gave a 10 to. I could not agree more.
Dream Theater is the standard that I hold all music to. Kamelot I find to be a close second (which you have as only one of three 9s).
After that I looked up the bands I do know from your list and most of them are spot on with my personal opinions. If nothing else, you've given me a lot of bands I know I should look into.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"[Screw] you and the green you ramped in on." - My EDH battle cry. If I had one. Which I don't.
While that's technically true, there's enough information out there that you're often still pretty able to filter the opinions of people who are into the same genre. Obviously you're not going to find any rap on ProgArchives, after all.
I guess I also treat movies differently than you, as well. If it's a raunchy romcom, I'm not gonna enjoy it no matter how well it's rated on RT.
Well within the banner of "prog" there's still plenty of music I don't care for - anything screamy, and lots of older prog or softer prog that tends to bore me.
PrgArchives has a list of the top 100 prog metal albums, so that might be worth doubling back on to listen to in a bit more depth. I'd still like to go through the whole list of artists though.
So you didn't like "Shawn of the Dead?"
Don't get me wrong, some movie genres have to try a little harder than others, but I can still enjoy most anything. With music, there's a lot of genres that wouldn't have a chance of getting above a 3/10 from me - pretty much any death metal is never going to be even remotely enjoyable, for example.
To be honest, I think that's just silly. I wouldn't have found pretty much all the music I listen to today had it not been for reading other people's reviews and opinions. Otherwise, I'd still be listening to Creed. However, just because you're absorbing information doesn't mean you can't still think for yourself. For me, those opinions formed a pathway to discovery that lead me to find something that I'd been searching for, musically.
Besides, we're talking about Prog Metal here. It's never going to be "popular," aside from the brief bit of attention that Djent is currently receiving (and I'm also quite hesitant to call it prog metal, as well).
I think it's a two-way street. I definitely think, especially when watching movies, that if it had gotten good reviews I would have looked for the positives and liked it more, or the reverse. On the other hand, it can certainly help pare things down.
I think I'll probably end up using some lists to decide what to go into more depth on (or which albums to buy from artists I want to buy from), but I don't want to read reviews for albums that are just in the the big list.
See, this is exactly where using the aggregated information available on the internet really helps. Because I was able to use that information, I haven't had to endure listening to purportedly "metal" bands with emo vocals. Your approach may crop 50%, but using the info available will probably crop 75%.
Well I mean, you can crop them down as much as you want, really. I just don't want to risk missing anything good.
I hear what you're saying, but you're using methods which are diametrically opposed. You're talking about "being patient whilst sifting through thousands of bands" but also skipping a band entirely if you hear something you don't like after 20 seconds. You can't really have it both ways like that, especially given the size of the discographies of some bands out there where their sound has shifted fairly radically over time. Personally, I hated Train of Thought. The only song I like from it is Stream of Consciousness, but I detest the rest of that album because it sounds like Dream Theater trying to be something they're not.
Furthermore, you know what my introduction to Dream Theater was? A video of their cover of Master of Puppets. It's ****ing awful. If that had been the only Dream Theater song I'd ever heard... I can't say I never would have gotten into them, but it would have probably taken a few more years. Thankfully, someone then showed me the "Live at Budokan" version of Hollow Years, and I then understood that, "hmm, maybe these guys are worth checking out after all."
Well, it's a tradeoff like any tradeoff. Regardless of how much patience/time I have, I can spend more time on fewer albums, or less time on more albums.
If I'm being totally honest, probably the biggest reason I'm doing it this way is because of reason #5 - it's just a fun, stupid project. But I'll agree that it's probably worth doubling back on a few artists that are especially highly rated and didn't quite make it in my ratings.
That said, you like "Hollow Years"? I always think of that song as "the one that lets me know "Peruvian Skies" is done and I should go listen to a different album that has more than 1.5 songs I like"
Never heard their cover of Metallica. That sounds like an odd choice, but they were always sort of trying to get more metally for some reason. The worst result of which, imo, was Portnoy barking the fruits of the spirit on Black Clouds. I lost my **** laughing when he barks out "COURTESY!!!"
Personally I liked Train of Thought quite a bit (mostly tracks 2 and 3). Not for the same reason I like their other stuff, perhaps.
FWIW, I checked out that Dreamscape song, and I didn't really care for it. It came nowhere near the level of A Change of Seasons or Octavarium personally. Sure, the musicianship was brilliant, but it didn't do the one thing which is a requirement of any great prog epic: it didn't take me on a journey.
I wouldn't say it's "epic" in the sense that Seasons is (nothing is as epic as Seasons is, though, imo), it doesn't have nearly the dynamics or sheer brilliance of songwriting that Seasons (and to a lesser extent, Octavarium) have. It's no masterpiece of the genre. But it's still fun. It's only in the awkward position of comparison because it happens to be a similar length.
I can't help but notice that there is only one band you gave a 10 to. I could not agree more.
Dream Theater is the standard that I hold all music to. Kamelot I find to be a close second (which you have as only one of three 9s).
After that I looked up the bands I do know from your list and most of them are spot on with my personal opinions. If nothing else, you've given me a lot of bands I know I should look into.
Glad to be of service
Of the relative unknowns I've "discovered", my top picks so far go to Eumeria, Pathosray, and Black Bonzo, in that order. If you're looking for someplace to start. Vanden Plas (at least Christ 0) is also up there, if you haven't heard of them, although they're better known than those 3.
About progarchives - I find the ratings really questionable, so I never use it as a determiner of whether to bother or not with a band.
It's ridiculous that you haven't checked out early Fates Warning, given how much you like DT. DT pretty much lifted their style at first. also they're better than DT. Listen to some songs off of Awaken the Guardian. I'd also urge you to listen to something off of Act of God by Znowhite, preferably To the Last Breath, but they're not really proggy so meh. Nor is lots of other stuff on the list though.
Quote from on Converge »
Female vocals, thrashy metal
wat
Yea I disagree with most of what I'm reading you say on this spreadsheet honestly, so I probably wouldn't be much help. For example, the best part of Dir en grey is the vocalist, who has insane range. Converge is anything but "meh", Fripp is anything but boring, etc. It's funny that you liked the guitar work of King Crimson but didn't like Fripp though.
That said, you like "Hollow Years"? I always think of that song as "the one that lets me know "Peruvian Skies" is done and I should go listen to a different album that has more than 1.5 songs I like"
Oh man, you're in for a treat. I agree that the original version of Hollow Years is completely forgettable. However, the live version is REQUIRED listening for any Dream Theater aficionado. They tweak the base of the song in a lot of subtle ways to make it more interesting, and then what has become one of the most legendary live guitar solos ever. It works infinitely better in the live setting than the album version.
FWIW, I also really like a lot of Falling Into Infinity. I know that it's DT's critical pariah of an album, and "You Not Me" is terrible, but New Millenium, Hell's Kitchen/Lines In The Sand, Take Away My Pain, Just Let Me Breathe and Trial of Tears are all some of my favorite DT songs.
Never heard their cover of Metallica. That sounds like an odd choice, but they were always sort of trying to get more metally for some reason. The worst result of which, imo, was Portnoy barking the fruits of the spirit on Black Clouds. I lost my **** laughing when he barks out "COURTESY!!!"
Oh man, agreed with regards to Portnoy. His barks are the one thing that REALLY holds that album back from greatness. They are freaking TERRIBLE.
But yeah, the Metallica cover is awful. Not because it's badly played, far from it, but because it's utterly and completely sterile, totally lacking in emotion. I'd say to listen to it to understand what I'm talking about, but... yeah, just don't. It's terrible.
About progarchives - I find the ratings really questionable, so I never use it as a determiner of whether to bother or not with a band.
It's ridiculous that you haven't checked out early Fates Warning, given how much you like DT. DT pretty much lifted their style at first. also they're better than DT. Listen to some songs off of Awaken the Guardian. I'd also urge you to listen to something off of Act of God by Znowhite, preferably To the Last Breath, but they're not really proggy so meh. Nor is lots of other stuff on the list though. wat
Yea I disagree with most of what I'm reading you say on this spreadsheet honestly, so I probably wouldn't be much help. For example, the best part of Dir en grey is the vocalist, who has insane range. Converge is anything but "meh", Fripp is anything but boring, etc. It's funny that you liked the guitar work of King Crimson but didn't like Fripp though.
Well progarchvies is handy since it has such a stupidly comprehensive list. If you've got other lists/ratings, though, I'd be happy to hear them.
I listened to some stuff of No Exit and Guardian off Awaken the Guardian. Not sure if I see such a strong resemblance between them and DT...they sound less progressive, more metal to me. Although Guardian sounds a little more like power metal maybe. Anyway, not bad, nothing I'd rate close to DT though.
Looks like I was a little overly harsh on Dir En Grey, some of their other stuff is ok.
Gave Converge another shot and I stand by my rating though. Listened to "Aimless Arrow" and what I dislike about it most is that it doesn't have any interesting dynamics. It pretty much starts at 11 and stays at 11 for the whole song. I like my songs to change and evolve.
If that's the case, then power to you. I withdraw my previous reservations.
Oh man, you're in for a treat. I agree that the original version of Hollow Years is completely forgettable. However, the live version is REQUIRED listening for any Dream Theater aficionado. They tweak the base of the song in a lot of subtle ways to make it more interesting, and then what has become one of the most legendary live guitar solos ever. It works infinitely better in the live setting than the album version.
FWIW, I also really like a lot of Falling Into Infinity. I know that it's DT's critical pariah of an album, and "You Not Me" is terrible, but New Millenium, Hell's Kitchen/Lines In The Sand, Take Away My Pain, Just Let Me Breathe and Trial of Tears are all some of my favorite DT songs.
Oh man, agreed with regards to Portnoy. His barks are the one thing that REALLY holds that album back from greatness. They are freaking TERRIBLE.
But yeah, the Metallica cover is awful. Not because it's badly played, far from it, but because it's utterly and completely sterile, totally lacking in emotion. I'd say to listen to it to understand what I'm talking about, but... yeah, just don't. It's terrible.
The solo on Hollow Years was amazing! (Also Petrucci's done some serious hair-growing since then, apparently.) The rest of the song was definitely better than the album version, although it's still not one of my favorites. Not to be a downer, but I really think it's the key/tone. I like my prog minor and depressing, evidently. Upbeat prog just sounds....wrong....
On a whim I bought Queensryche's "Operation: Mindcrime", partly because it's apparently an early prog classic, and partly because it has one of the most badass album names I've ever heard. Didn't sound very proggy to me most of the time - although that might just be because I'm used to more modern prog - but the story was one of the coolest I've heard on an album. As much as Metropolis might be my favorite album ever, the story is a little...silly. Anyway it was catchy and fun, and most importantly, depressing as all hell. So a hearty recommendation from me!
I listened to some stuff of No Exit and Guardian off Awaken the Guardian. Not sure if I see such a strong resemblance between them and DT...
Listen to Awaken the Guardian and Images and Words. I think I've even read somewhere that Portnoy pretty much acknowledges it, but I might be wrong about that.
Gave Converge another shot and I stand by my rating though. Listened to "Aimless Arrow" and what I dislike about it most is that it doesn't have any interesting dynamics. It pretty much starts at 11 and stays at 11 for the whole song. I like my songs to change and evolve.
Eh, they have songs that do so somewhat, though not as much as a typical prog band, and they're not progressive so that's unsurpising. I was mostly pointing out, though, that they have a male vocalist and play metalcore, not thrash.
Consider though that the typical converge song is shorter than most prog songs, and that if you listen to an album the variation becomes more apparent.
On a whim I bought Queensryche's "Operation: Mindcrime", partly because it's apparently an early prog classic, and partly because it has one of the most badass album names I've ever heard. Didn't sound very proggy to me most of the time - although that might just be because I'm used to more modern prog
Yes, from things you're saying I'd believe that to be true.
Listen to Awaken the Guardian and Images and Words. I think I've even read somewhere that Portnoy pretty much acknowledges it, but I might be wrong about that.
Eh, they have songs that do so somewhat, though not as much as a typical prog band, and they're not progressive so that's unsurpising. I was mostly pointing out, though, that they have a male vocalist and play metalcore, not thrash.
Consider though that the typical converge song is shorter than most prog songs, and that if you listen to an album the variation becomes more apparent.
Yes, from things you're saying I'd believe that to be true.
Honestly, didn't sound that similar to me. Although I&W was never my favorite DT album, it's actually somewhere in the middle, which I realize is heresy.
Let's be fair, queensryche's early stuff is early, early prog metal. So ofc the majority of prog metal is newer than it. Anyway it's nevertheless a good time.
More interesting stuff, I've been buying more albums. Partly using my own list, partly using the prog archives top list, because I'm lazy and want something new to listen to at work.
Bought Muse's 2nd law, which you can say is or isn't prog I spose. Very electronic this time, actually, but at least they're innovating. anyway most of the album was only OK, but Supremacy and Panic Station were pretty sweet. Those 2 songs are like 9s, the rest is more like a 5.
Got Redemption's Fullness of Time, very solid front to back. Probably an 8. Might get more from them.
Searched high and low for Dark Moor's Hall of Olden Dreams (power metal, obviously, not prog, but whatever) and couldn't find it anywhere legally. *achem* Long story short, now I have their entire discography because that was the only way I could find it. Got sort of bland after a while, but Hall of Olden Dreams has some solid tracks on it. So that one's probably a 7.5, rest are more like 6s.
Finally, got the Shaman album "Ritual", which is solid front to back, but especially the song "Fairy Tale" for some reason is gorgeous. No clue why I love that song so much, but it's awesome. If anyone knows of bands making similar music, lmk.
Three of my favorite bands, King Crimson, Coheed and Cambria, and Porcupine Tree, are on that spreadsheet.
The thing is, they all have VERY different styles on different albums.
Some of my favorite King Crimson stuff is the super majestic sounding mellotron-heavy songs, like Epitaph, In the Court of the Crimson King, In the Wake of Posiedon, and Starless, but I also really like a lot of the really jazzy stuff, like the entire album "Starless and Bible Black". I'm not a big fan of their '80s albums (Discipline, Beat, and Three of a Perfect Pair), but they do have some decent new stuff, notably the album Thrak.
Recommended:
Epitaph
In the Court of the Crimson King
Pictures of a City
Prelude: Song of the Gulls/Islands
Fracture
Red
Starless
Dinosaur
Sex Sleep Eat Drink Dream
Coheed and Cambria bears some similarities to the band Rush, in that some people just straight out don't like the vocal style. The entire CoCa discography follows the "concept album"-concept, but on a much larger scale, where the entire discography folows a storyline. I actually really like pretty much everything they've put out, but Year of the Black Rainbow is probably their weakest album.
I'd recommend:
Welcome Home
Devil in Jersey City
Neverender
21:13
In Keeping Secrets of Silent Earth: 3
Three Evils (Embodied in Love and Shadow)
Blood Red Summer
The Willing Well II: From Fear Through the Eyes of Madness
Mother Superior
Gravemakers and Gunslingers
Key Entity Extraction I: Domino the Destitute
Porcupine Tree is also one of my personal favorites. Each album has a very clear stylistic direction the makes it unique. Chronologically, they transition from Psychedelic to Alternative Prog, to Industrial Prog/Prog Metal, but it's all really beautiful music, and again, I can't identify any bad albums.
Personal picks:
Third Eye Surfer/On the Sunday of Life/The Nostalgia Factory
The Sky Moves Sideways
Dark Matter
Synesthesia
Even Less
Russia On Ice
Trains
Lazarus
Arriving Somewhere But Not Here
Fear of a Blank Planet
Remember Me Lover
I'm not trying to be objective or anything. I, personally, dislike the band but I'm not saying they're bad (NOTE: I probably actually say many bands are bad in the notes, but those are informal). Frankly I'd be stunned if there was anyone who wasn't offended by at least a few of my "reviews".
In my defense, at least I'm trying all of these bands before hating them. So I'm not hating through ignorance. I know plenty of people who wouldn't even bother listening. I do my best to go in with an open mind.
I am sincerely confused as to what this "exploration" project is for? You are claiming that you're going into this with an open mind, but you're not really doing that. There are probably a ton of examples on this sheet, but so far glaring examples are Agalloch and Opeth. You take one track from both of their discographies and listen to it, judging the entire band based on it. I can imagine doing that with something that isn't prog, but with prog that just doesn't work.
The track you take from Agalloch is off of their new album, which is also their heaviest and then you write off the band as "growly crap." When their last two releases are SO entirely different, that you can barely tell it's the same band. If you were to listen to something from The Mantle or Ashes Against the Grain, you'd end up hearing something different. That's mostly because of the progressive nature of the band. They don't really have a lot of repetitive stuff in their history.
Onto Opeth, you grab a song from one of their soft albums. It's less relevant with Opeth because they do have 8 albums that contain heavy material and two that do not (Damnation & Heritage), but when you cherry pick one song from them, you don't get an accurate portrayal of what the band is about.
I understand that you're not a fan of gutturals/growls but if that is the case, why are you even looking up death/black metal bands? It's like going to a candy store and then complaining that they are selling sugar based products.
Gave Converge another shot and I stand by my rating though. Listened to "Aimless Arrow" and what I dislike about it most is that it doesn't have any interesting dynamics. It pretty much starts at 11 and stays at 11 for the whole song. I like my songs to change and evolve.
Converge is a hardcore band. That's what they do.
However these might be tracks that might be up your alley in the "change and evolve" department.
I am sincerely confused as to what this "exploration" project is for? You are claiming that you're going into this with an open mind, but you're not really doing that. There are probably a ton of examples on this sheet, but so far glaring examples are Agalloch and Opeth. You take one track from both of their discographies and listen to it, judging the entire band based on it. I can imagine doing that with something that isn't prog, but with prog that just doesn't work.
The track you take from Agalloch is off of their new album, which is also their heaviest and then you write off the band as "growly crap." When their last two releases are SO entirely different, that you can barely tell it's the same band. If you were to listen to something from The Mantle or Ashes Against the Grain, you'd end up hearing something different. That's mostly because of the progressive nature of the band. They don't really have a lot of repetitive stuff in their history.
Onto Opeth, you grab a song from one of their soft albums. It's less relevant with Opeth because they do have 8 albums that contain heavy material and two that do not (Damnation & Heritage), but when you cherry pick one song from them, you don't get an accurate portrayal of what the band is about.
I understand that you're not a fan of gutturals/growls but if that is the case, why are you even looking up death/black metal bands? It's like going to a candy store and then complaining that they are selling sugar based products.
Something that will show the flaw of listening to an individual track before moving on.
edit: The guy above me hit on the same point for other artists.
I totally have an open mind going in, because I didn't read any reviews before listening. Now, with 800+ bands on the list, I make up my mind pretty quickly, sure. I might be overly decisive but I'm not going into anything with an opinion.
I realize, obviously, that bands evolve and that one record can be very different than another, but that's the price you pay for quantity.
My current methods so far have been to listen to a small amount of a large number of bands (which is mostly what the spreadsheet is), and then also use some best-of lists to listen to a little more intently (a cowardly but efficient method). Both have turned up some great stuff. I wish I had time to give every band an hour of my time but I've gotten a lot busier since I started this project. Hopefully the bands that are too small to be on best-of lists will catch my ear in the spreadsheet, and the ones that have a bad song turn up for the spreadsheet have an album good/popular enough to make a best-of list.
Generally-speaking I feel like the lesser known bands have shorter discographies and thus are more easily represented by a song or two selected at random, whereas bands with large discographies that are more likely to get misrepresented are popular enough to have a chance at best-of lists.
I think it's about as thorough as I can reasonably be when talking about bands in this kind of quantity.
I wasn't intentionally looking up death/black/****ty metal, obviously. Genres just bleed a little too much and people on Wikipedia are idiots. Although it does feel good to cross a band off the list after only listening to it for 20 seconds. Makes me feel like I'm making progress.
I guess I don't understand what you people expect out of me. I just wanted to find a bunch of new music and have some fun doing it. If a band or two gets tramped underfoot, I really don't give a crap.
I wasn't intentionally looking up death/black/****ty metal, obviously. Genres just bleed a little too much and people on Wikipedia are idiots. Although it does feel good to cross a band off the list after only listening to it for 20 seconds. Makes me feel like I'm making progress.
I guess I don't understand what you people expect out of me. I just wanted to find a bunch of new music and have some fun doing it. If a band or two gets tramped underfoot, I really don't give a crap.
It is good that you're wanting to investigate new music. From the sounds of things you're fairly young. Most people who are into music end up doing something like this at some point. The thing that people (like myself) are bringing up is that you should give bands more time. I'm aware that people are busy and time is valuable but learning about new music isn't a race. You don't have to listen to 800 bands in a week and form opinions on them all overnight.
Saying something like you don't care if you miss one or two bands that could end up being favorites just makes it seem like this "project" isn't really about discovering music and more about posturing.
Even if you do give bands a fair shot, you should understand that you may miss something. There have been several bands (far beyond one or two) that got trampled underfoot early on for me, but later revisiting them caused something to click and then become some of my favorites.
I am a monumental fan of Devin Townsend. I had written him off for years because I didn't (at the time) like Strapping Young Lad and never listened to his solo work because all the friends I had who hyped it were people who I had deemed "inferior" because they also hyped the crap out of ICP. It wasn't until maybe '09 that I gave him another shot and found a lot of really enjoyable music. If I had stuck to my original opinion of SYL based on me hearing The New Black when it came out, I would have never learned that they actually put out some really good stuff like City (and Devin's solo material).
Basically what most of us are saying in the repeated complaints about this project, is that you shouldn't be so hasty to power through the list just for the sake of finishing it. Good music is always out there waiting to be discovered. It doesn't matter if you find it immediately or months after it comes out. All that does matter is that you enjoy it.
It is good that you're wanting to investigate new music. From the sounds of things you're fairly young. Most people who are into music end up doing something like this at some point. The thing that people (like myself) are bringing up is that you should give bands more time. I'm aware that people are busy and time is valuable but learning about new music isn't a race. You don't have to listen to 800 bands in a week and form opinions on them all overnight.
Saying something like you don't care if you miss one or two bands that could end up being favorites just makes it seem like this "project" isn't really about discovering music and more about posturing.
Even if you do give bands a fair shot, you should understand that you may miss something. There have been several bands (far beyond one or two) that got trampled underfoot early on for me, but later revisiting them caused something to click and then become some of my favorites.
I am a monumental fan of Devin Townsend. I had written him off for years because I didn't (at the time) like Strapping Young Lad and never listened to his solo work because all the friends I had who hyped it were people who I had deemed "inferior" because they also hyped the crap out of ICP. It wasn't until maybe '09 that I gave him another shot and found a lot of really enjoyable music. If I had stuck to my original opinion of SYL based on me hearing The New Black when it came out, I would have never learned that they actually put out some really good stuff like City (and Devin's solo material).
Basically what most of us are saying in the repeated complaints about this project, is that you shouldn't be so hasty to power through the list just for the sake of finishing it. Good music is always out there waiting to be discovered. It doesn't matter if you find it immediately or months after it comes out. All that does matter is that you enjoy it.
The reason I don't really care if I give up early on a band while working on the spreadsheet is because:
1) if they're really that good, then they might show up in a best-of list.
2) there is a functionally infinite number of bands to listen to. It took me months to get through these 800 bands, and that was at the expense of a lot of productivity at work =/. getting through the entirety of prog archives would take years, and even then progressive rock is only one genre I'm interested in. So when I'm choosing whether to listen to a song from a band I haven't heard, or from a band I heard one song from, and that song sucked, I'm always going to pick the new one. Sure, it's not a race, but I could be listening to new music until I'm dead if I spent the length of time you whiners want me to on each band.
So if you're advocating for a particular band, realize that
-if they're really that good, they might show up on a best-of list and then I'll give them a better shot, and
-by quitting quickly when they didn't appeal to me, I was able to get to more bands that had a better chance of being my preference.
Give it up locifer, I already spent plenty of time tilting at that particular windmill.
Well you did convince me to use some best-of lists in addition to my spreadsheet of equality, so it wasn't a total waste of time.
I really can't justify blowing half an hour listening to something when I hate the first song though, unless I've got some reason to think it's a bad representation. Especially not when there are so many other bands out there. I mean sure, maybe I rate them a 3 when they deserved a 5 or a 4 when they deserved a 6, but at the end of the day it doesn't make any difference, it just matters whether I ultimately buy their album or not. There are very few bands (none that come to mind) that have gone from "I hate this" to "I'm buying this album". So when a band starts off weak, yeah, generally speaking I'll save myself some time to spend on more likely candidates.
Prog rock is pretty awesome. Prog metal on the one hand, aside from Fates Warning (and maybe Between the Buried and Me, pre-Colors), is pretty much universally terrible. Blo-peth and Dream Theater being the worst offenders.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Death to trendy music
Death to crystal-clear, glossy mixing jobs
Death to ignorant music fans.
I've bought a bunch more albums recently (not all actually prog). Time for some 2-second reviews:
Cake's "Fashion Nugget" - fun overall, not a lot of songs I totally love but enjoyable to listen to in the background.
Circus Maximus's "Nine" - Freaking awesome start to finish. A few weak songs but lots of truly great ones. Unusual sound for prog metal, a little poppier but nonetheless excellent.
Symphony X's "V - the new mythology suite" - already heard a lot of the songs, fallen, oracle and the witness, etc are excellent. A lot of great songs but it does feel a bit long by the end.
The Lonely Island's "Incredibad" - Very few prog elements. Some bull**** about a boat. I don't get it.
Riverside's "Second Life Syndrome" - this came heavily recommended from prog archives, and while it was solid (intro was very promising) it didn't blow me away. Sort of monotonous after a while for me.
Tenacious D's "Tenacious D" - one star because this album sent me to the hospital with a sprained wang after attempting a "**** pushup".
Circus Maximus's Isolate & The first chapter - Nine convinced me to buy these 2 as well. While not as good as Nine they're both quite solid as well.
I see you gave Anathema a 7. That being the case I recommend Anti-matter since they share a few band members.
Maynard James Keenan is my favorite vocalist. You said you're not huge on APC but I'm curious what you think of Puscifer?
I don't hate APC and "Outsider" is one of my favorite songs, but a lot of their stuff doesn't gel for me. it's just not as consistently good as Tool.
I do enjoy puscifer although the lyrics aren't nearly up to Tool standards. It's fun, but not especially meaningful. But everything doesn't have to be.
Prog rock is pretty awesome. Prog metal on the one hand, aside from Fates Warning (and maybe Between the Buried and Me, pre-Colors), is pretty much universally terrible. Blo-peth and Dream Theater being the worst offenders.
That's an interesting, if poorly explained, opinion. I'm disappointed you couldn't come up with a portmanteau for dream theater along with Opeth (unless there's actually a band called blo-peth and i'm totally misreading you).
Did you consider Dumb Theater? It might sound a little blunt, but don't forget the basics.
Update reviews...I've been blowing a lot of money on music lately:
Diablo Swing Orchestra (butcher's ballroom, sing-along songs for the damned and delirious, pandora's pinata): DSO totally blew me away tbh, they use some totally out-of-nowhere styles and instruments - mostly a combo of metal, jazz, and opera in their first album but by pinata they're using freaking flamenco, digeridoos, electronic...but the completely insane thing is that it's totally, amazingly listenable. Not arty and pretentious, not requiring ten playthroughs to really 'get', it's just great, fun, exciting music right out of the box, with some crazy awesome experimental stuff woven impossibly smoothly into it. Can't believe I haven't come across them before. 9.5 for ballroom and pinata, 8.5 for sing-along songs. for reals.
Edenbridge (all of their albums): this is clearly on the outskirts of prog, but for symphonic metal I thought it was really powerful and catchy...some of their earlier stuff is sorta meh (sometimes VERY meh), but solitaire and myearthdream are both amazing...favorite song is probably "place of higher power". I like a band that's improving. 9 for solitaire and myearthdream, 5 for eden, others in between.
Midnattsol (The Metamorphosis Melody): definitely got nothing on Edenbridge in the realm of gothic-ish female-fronted metal. I was hoping for more folkishness, but it's still a solid album, although nothing super excites me. 7
Queensryche (Promised Land): very solid album, but I've only listened through it once. Doubt it's as good as mindcrime, but then go figure. 7.5
Uriah Heep (Demons and Wizards): I have a laugh a bit that this used to be "heavy metal" but whatever, it's fun and catchy and retro. It probably makes me a bad prog rock fan but Easy livin' is easily my favorite on the album. 7.
Shadow Gallery (Room V) - my favorite is still definitely Archer of Ben Salem, there are some other catchy tunes though...vocals aren't amazing though. 7.
King Crimson (Court of Crimson King, In the Wake of Poseidon) I know i'm gonna get in trouble from true prog fans for anything bad I say about old KC, but I did find some of the latter tracks on cotck to be sorta slow for my tastes. It was fun to notice the elements that have been integrated into later bands, though. 7.
Stolen Babies (Naught) - eesh, this was a mistake. Filistata from their first album was good and they had some other stuff that made me think I'd like them...but definitely not so much. vocals get really annoying after a while. 3.5
Lonely Island (turtleneck and chain) - fun and silly, heard most of them already but whatever. 6.5.
Redemption (origins of ruin) - decent prog outing but it's got nothing on the fullness of time. 7.
Tenacious D (Rise of Fenix) - better than I expected. title track is fun. 6.
Vanden Plas (Beyond Daylight) - loved Chirst 0, didn't realy like clockwork, Beyond Daylight seems closer to the middle. It's not as immediately interesting as Christ 0 but it doesn't annoy me like clockwork. 7.
To-Mera (Delusions) - pretty hard proggy metal, female vocalist. Solid but got sorta washed out after listening to edenbridge and DSO who both dwarf them in my memory. 7.
judging by your charts, you dont listen to much of this band that you are ratting, so, when you write awful singing, I assume you just heard few of the songs of the bands you are ratting. I know this because no Prog Rock fan can rate Camel as "boring go-nowhere space Rock, instrumental". It's just not acceptable.
When it comes to Wintersun, you prolly heard tracks like Winter Madness, Starchild or Beyond the Dark Sun, which are great in its own way, but I understand that Growl isnt your favourite style of "singing". Try listening to Death Is the Healing, for example. Jarii sings in a clean style and it's amazing. While he's no Peter Gabriel, his singing is solid and powerfull, provides a great feeling and tells the story.
yeah it's ok, i'm not blown away or anything though. Again, I don't really give a crap unless it's something I might actually want to put in my library, and wintersun is clearly not that.
I've revised my opinion of camel somewhat and I'll let snow goose or whatever pass as a misstep. Still dunno that they're on the my list to buy though. I'm really tilted more towards prog metal at the mo, and I'm even trying to find some good folk metal (read: no harsh vocals, which is sorta rare in folk metal for some arbitrary reason).
If there's anything to be gained from this, it's that you at least learned how good MyEarthDream is.
Right? They're way better than every other similar band I've heard, to the point where it's ruined me for the genre. I heard "shine" and thought "eh, well they're worth a listen i guess," but their 2 most recent albums blew me away.
Haha, don't worry. I know that BTBAM isn't for everyone. Heck, they're not even for me half the time either.
I've always been an outlier in that I've never liked Space-Dye Vest as much as most Dream Theater fans. For that kind of song, I'll take Disappear.
While that's technically true, there's enough information out there that you're often still pretty able to filter the opinions of people who are into the same genre. Obviously you're not going to find any rap on ProgArchives, after all.
I guess I also treat movies differently than you, as well. If it's a raunchy romcom, I'm not gonna enjoy it no matter how well it's rated on RT.
That's a fair enough point, I won't contend it.
To be honest, I think that's just silly. I wouldn't have found pretty much all the music I listen to today had it not been for reading other people's reviews and opinions. Otherwise, I'd still be listening to Creed. However, just because you're absorbing information doesn't mean you can't still think for yourself. For me, those opinions formed a pathway to discovery that lead me to find something that I'd been searching for, musically.
Besides, we're talking about Prog Metal here. It's never going to be "popular," aside from the brief bit of attention that Djent is currently receiving (and I'm also quite hesitant to call it prog metal, as well).
See, this is exactly where using the aggregated information available on the internet really helps. Because I was able to use that information, I haven't had to endure listening to purportedly "metal" bands with emo vocals. Your approach may crop 50%, but using the info available will probably crop 75%.
I hear what you're saying, but you're using methods which are diametrically opposed. You're talking about "being patient whilst sifting through thousands of bands" but also skipping a band entirely if you hear something you don't like after 20 seconds. You can't really have it both ways like that, especially given the size of the discographies of some bands out there where their sound has shifted fairly radically over time. Personally, I hated Train of Thought. The only song I like from it is Stream of Consciousness, but I detest the rest of that album because it sounds like Dream Theater trying to be something they're not.
Furthermore, you know what my introduction to Dream Theater was? A video of their cover of Master of Puppets. It's ****ing awful. If that had been the only Dream Theater song I'd ever heard... I can't say I never would have gotten into them, but it would have probably taken a few more years. Thankfully, someone then showed me the "Live at Budokan" version of Hollow Years, and I then understood that, "hmm, maybe these guys are worth checking out after all."
________________
FWIW, I checked out that Dreamscape song, and I didn't really care for it. It came nowhere near the level of A Change of Seasons or Octavarium personally. Sure, the musicianship was brilliant, but it didn't do the one thing which is a requirement of any great prog epic: it didn't take me on a journey.
GGG [Primer] Omnath, Big Green Beatstick Machine GGG
Dream Theater is the standard that I hold all music to. Kamelot I find to be a close second (which you have as only one of three 9s).
After that I looked up the bands I do know from your list and most of them are spot on with my personal opinions. If nothing else, you've given me a lot of bands I know I should look into.
Pristaxcontrombmodruu!
Well within the banner of "prog" there's still plenty of music I don't care for - anything screamy, and lots of older prog or softer prog that tends to bore me.
PrgArchives has a list of the top 100 prog metal albums, so that might be worth doubling back on to listen to in a bit more depth. I'd still like to go through the whole list of artists though.
So you didn't like "Shawn of the Dead?"
Don't get me wrong, some movie genres have to try a little harder than others, but I can still enjoy most anything. With music, there's a lot of genres that wouldn't have a chance of getting above a 3/10 from me - pretty much any death metal is never going to be even remotely enjoyable, for example.
I think it's a two-way street. I definitely think, especially when watching movies, that if it had gotten good reviews I would have looked for the positives and liked it more, or the reverse. On the other hand, it can certainly help pare things down.
I think I'll probably end up using some lists to decide what to go into more depth on (or which albums to buy from artists I want to buy from), but I don't want to read reviews for albums that are just in the the big list.
Well I mean, you can crop them down as much as you want, really. I just don't want to risk missing anything good.
Well, it's a tradeoff like any tradeoff. Regardless of how much patience/time I have, I can spend more time on fewer albums, or less time on more albums.
If I'm being totally honest, probably the biggest reason I'm doing it this way is because of reason #5 - it's just a fun, stupid project. But I'll agree that it's probably worth doubling back on a few artists that are especially highly rated and didn't quite make it in my ratings.
That said, you like "Hollow Years"? I always think of that song as "the one that lets me know "Peruvian Skies" is done and I should go listen to a different album that has more than 1.5 songs I like"
Never heard their cover of Metallica. That sounds like an odd choice, but they were always sort of trying to get more metally for some reason. The worst result of which, imo, was Portnoy barking the fruits of the spirit on Black Clouds. I lost my **** laughing when he barks out "COURTESY!!!"
Personally I liked Train of Thought quite a bit (mostly tracks 2 and 3). Not for the same reason I like their other stuff, perhaps.
I wouldn't say it's "epic" in the sense that Seasons is (nothing is as epic as Seasons is, though, imo), it doesn't have nearly the dynamics or sheer brilliance of songwriting that Seasons (and to a lesser extent, Octavarium) have. It's no masterpiece of the genre. But it's still fun. It's only in the awkward position of comparison because it happens to be a similar length.
Glad to be of service
Of the relative unknowns I've "discovered", my top picks so far go to Eumeria, Pathosray, and Black Bonzo, in that order. If you're looking for someplace to start. Vanden Plas (at least Christ 0) is also up there, if you haven't heard of them, although they're better known than those 3.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
It's ridiculous that you haven't checked out early Fates Warning, given how much you like DT. DT pretty much lifted their style at first. also they're better than DT. Listen to some songs off of Awaken the Guardian. I'd also urge you to listen to something off of Act of God by Znowhite, preferably To the Last Breath, but they're not really proggy so meh. Nor is lots of other stuff on the list though. wat
Yea I disagree with most of what I'm reading you say on this spreadsheet honestly, so I probably wouldn't be much help. For example, the best part of Dir en grey is the vocalist, who has insane range. Converge is anything but "meh", Fripp is anything but boring, etc. It's funny that you liked the guitar work of King Crimson but didn't like Fripp though.
If that's the case, then power to you. I withdraw my previous reservations.
Oh man, you're in for a treat. I agree that the original version of Hollow Years is completely forgettable. However, the live version is REQUIRED listening for any Dream Theater aficionado. They tweak the base of the song in a lot of subtle ways to make it more interesting, and then what has become one of the most legendary live guitar solos ever. It works infinitely better in the live setting than the album version.
Have a listen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6k1VdgNeKE
FWIW, I also really like a lot of Falling Into Infinity. I know that it's DT's critical pariah of an album, and "You Not Me" is terrible, but New Millenium, Hell's Kitchen/Lines In The Sand, Take Away My Pain, Just Let Me Breathe and Trial of Tears are all some of my favorite DT songs.
Oh man, agreed with regards to Portnoy. His barks are the one thing that REALLY holds that album back from greatness. They are freaking TERRIBLE.
But yeah, the Metallica cover is awful. Not because it's badly played, far from it, but because it's utterly and completely sterile, totally lacking in emotion. I'd say to listen to it to understand what I'm talking about, but... yeah, just don't. It's terrible.
GGG [Primer] Omnath, Big Green Beatstick Machine GGG
Well progarchvies is handy since it has such a stupidly comprehensive list. If you've got other lists/ratings, though, I'd be happy to hear them.
I listened to some stuff of No Exit and Guardian off Awaken the Guardian. Not sure if I see such a strong resemblance between them and DT...they sound less progressive, more metal to me. Although Guardian sounds a little more like power metal maybe. Anyway, not bad, nothing I'd rate close to DT though.
Looks like I was a little overly harsh on Dir En Grey, some of their other stuff is ok.
Gave Converge another shot and I stand by my rating though. Listened to "Aimless Arrow" and what I dislike about it most is that it doesn't have any interesting dynamics. It pretty much starts at 11 and stays at 11 for the whole song. I like my songs to change and evolve.
The solo on Hollow Years was amazing! (Also Petrucci's done some serious hair-growing since then, apparently.) The rest of the song was definitely better than the album version, although it's still not one of my favorites. Not to be a downer, but I really think it's the key/tone. I like my prog minor and depressing, evidently. Upbeat prog just sounds....wrong....
On a whim I bought Queensryche's "Operation: Mindcrime", partly because it's apparently an early prog classic, and partly because it has one of the most badass album names I've ever heard. Didn't sound very proggy to me most of the time - although that might just be because I'm used to more modern prog - but the story was one of the coolest I've heard on an album. As much as Metropolis might be my favorite album ever, the story is a little...silly. Anyway it was catchy and fun, and most importantly, depressing as all hell. So a hearty recommendation from me!
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Consider though that the typical converge song is shorter than most prog songs, and that if you listen to an album the variation becomes more apparent. Yes, from things you're saying I'd believe that to be true.
Honestly, didn't sound that similar to me. Although I&W was never my favorite DT album, it's actually somewhere in the middle, which I realize is heresy.
Let's be fair, queensryche's early stuff is early, early prog metal. So ofc the majority of prog metal is newer than it. Anyway it's nevertheless a good time.
More interesting stuff, I've been buying more albums. Partly using my own list, partly using the prog archives top list, because I'm lazy and want something new to listen to at work.
Bought Muse's 2nd law, which you can say is or isn't prog I spose. Very electronic this time, actually, but at least they're innovating. anyway most of the album was only OK, but Supremacy and Panic Station were pretty sweet. Those 2 songs are like 9s, the rest is more like a 5.
Got Redemption's Fullness of Time, very solid front to back. Probably an 8. Might get more from them.
Searched high and low for Dark Moor's Hall of Olden Dreams (power metal, obviously, not prog, but whatever) and couldn't find it anywhere legally. *achem* Long story short, now I have their entire discography because that was the only way I could find it. Got sort of bland after a while, but Hall of Olden Dreams has some solid tracks on it. So that one's probably a 7.5, rest are more like 6s.
Finally, got the Shaman album "Ritual", which is solid front to back, but especially the song "Fairy Tale" for some reason is gorgeous. No clue why I love that song so much, but it's awesome. If anyone knows of bands making similar music, lmk.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
The thing is, they all have VERY different styles on different albums.
Some of my favorite King Crimson stuff is the super majestic sounding mellotron-heavy songs, like Epitaph, In the Court of the Crimson King, In the Wake of Posiedon, and Starless, but I also really like a lot of the really jazzy stuff, like the entire album "Starless and Bible Black". I'm not a big fan of their '80s albums (Discipline, Beat, and Three of a Perfect Pair), but they do have some decent new stuff, notably the album Thrak.
Recommended:
Epitaph
In the Court of the Crimson King
Pictures of a City
Prelude: Song of the Gulls/Islands
Fracture
Red
Starless
Dinosaur
Sex Sleep Eat Drink Dream
Coheed and Cambria bears some similarities to the band Rush, in that some people just straight out don't like the vocal style. The entire CoCa discography follows the "concept album"-concept, but on a much larger scale, where the entire discography folows a storyline. I actually really like pretty much everything they've put out, but Year of the Black Rainbow is probably their weakest album.
I'd recommend:
Welcome Home
Devil in Jersey City
Neverender
21:13
In Keeping Secrets of Silent Earth: 3
Three Evils (Embodied in Love and Shadow)
Blood Red Summer
The Willing Well II: From Fear Through the Eyes of Madness
Mother Superior
Gravemakers and Gunslingers
Key Entity Extraction I: Domino the Destitute
Porcupine Tree is also one of my personal favorites. Each album has a very clear stylistic direction the makes it unique. Chronologically, they transition from Psychedelic to Alternative Prog, to Industrial Prog/Prog Metal, but it's all really beautiful music, and again, I can't identify any bad albums.
Personal picks:
Third Eye Surfer/On the Sunday of Life/The Nostalgia Factory
The Sky Moves Sideways
Dark Matter
Synesthesia
Even Less
Russia On Ice
Trains
Lazarus
Arriving Somewhere But Not Here
Fear of a Blank Planet
Remember Me Lover
I am sincerely confused as to what this "exploration" project is for? You are claiming that you're going into this with an open mind, but you're not really doing that. There are probably a ton of examples on this sheet, but so far glaring examples are Agalloch and Opeth. You take one track from both of their discographies and listen to it, judging the entire band based on it. I can imagine doing that with something that isn't prog, but with prog that just doesn't work.
The track you take from Agalloch is off of their new album, which is also their heaviest and then you write off the band as "growly crap." When their last two releases are SO entirely different, that you can barely tell it's the same band. If you were to listen to something from The Mantle or Ashes Against the Grain, you'd end up hearing something different. That's mostly because of the progressive nature of the band. They don't really have a lot of repetitive stuff in their history.
Onto Opeth, you grab a song from one of their soft albums. It's less relevant with Opeth because they do have 8 albums that contain heavy material and two that do not (Damnation & Heritage), but when you cherry pick one song from them, you don't get an accurate portrayal of what the band is about.
I understand that you're not a fan of gutturals/growls but if that is the case, why are you even looking up death/black metal bands? It's like going to a candy store and then complaining that they are selling sugar based products.
Also listen to Solefald.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vhl45jpDHWM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meCXQ6v4isE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sfhoY98WAM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrjmWtgVUHw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMwzpiVsDps
Something that will show the flaw of listening to an individual track before moving on.
edit: The guy above me hit on the same point for other artists.
Converge is a hardcore band. That's what they do.
However these might be tracks that might be up your alley in the "change and evolve" department.
First Light/Last Light from You Fail Me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOp-p_mlKH4
Jane Doe from Jane Doe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YR9Bspqbps
Phoenix in Flight/Flames from Jane Doe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE-rtSSY2GQ&playnext=1&list=PLD146C3B0C9B07887&feature=results_video
I totally have an open mind going in, because I didn't read any reviews before listening. Now, with 800+ bands on the list, I make up my mind pretty quickly, sure. I might be overly decisive but I'm not going into anything with an opinion.
I realize, obviously, that bands evolve and that one record can be very different than another, but that's the price you pay for quantity.
My current methods so far have been to listen to a small amount of a large number of bands (which is mostly what the spreadsheet is), and then also use some best-of lists to listen to a little more intently (a cowardly but efficient method). Both have turned up some great stuff. I wish I had time to give every band an hour of my time but I've gotten a lot busier since I started this project. Hopefully the bands that are too small to be on best-of lists will catch my ear in the spreadsheet, and the ones that have a bad song turn up for the spreadsheet have an album good/popular enough to make a best-of list.
Generally-speaking I feel like the lesser known bands have shorter discographies and thus are more easily represented by a song or two selected at random, whereas bands with large discographies that are more likely to get misrepresented are popular enough to have a chance at best-of lists.
I think it's about as thorough as I can reasonably be when talking about bands in this kind of quantity.
I wasn't intentionally looking up death/black/****ty metal, obviously. Genres just bleed a little too much and people on Wikipedia are idiots. Although it does feel good to cross a band off the list after only listening to it for 20 seconds. Makes me feel like I'm making progress.
I guess I don't understand what you people expect out of me. I just wanted to find a bunch of new music and have some fun doing it. If a band or two gets tramped underfoot, I really don't give a crap.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
It is good that you're wanting to investigate new music. From the sounds of things you're fairly young. Most people who are into music end up doing something like this at some point. The thing that people (like myself) are bringing up is that you should give bands more time. I'm aware that people are busy and time is valuable but learning about new music isn't a race. You don't have to listen to 800 bands in a week and form opinions on them all overnight.
Saying something like you don't care if you miss one or two bands that could end up being favorites just makes it seem like this "project" isn't really about discovering music and more about posturing.
Even if you do give bands a fair shot, you should understand that you may miss something. There have been several bands (far beyond one or two) that got trampled underfoot early on for me, but later revisiting them caused something to click and then become some of my favorites.
I am a monumental fan of Devin Townsend. I had written him off for years because I didn't (at the time) like Strapping Young Lad and never listened to his solo work because all the friends I had who hyped it were people who I had deemed "inferior" because they also hyped the crap out of ICP. It wasn't until maybe '09 that I gave him another shot and found a lot of really enjoyable music. If I had stuck to my original opinion of SYL based on me hearing The New Black when it came out, I would have never learned that they actually put out some really good stuff like City (and Devin's solo material).
Basically what most of us are saying in the repeated complaints about this project, is that you shouldn't be so hasty to power through the list just for the sake of finishing it. Good music is always out there waiting to be discovered. It doesn't matter if you find it immediately or months after it comes out. All that does matter is that you enjoy it.
The reason I don't really care if I give up early on a band while working on the spreadsheet is because:
1) if they're really that good, then they might show up in a best-of list.
2) there is a functionally infinite number of bands to listen to. It took me months to get through these 800 bands, and that was at the expense of a lot of productivity at work =/. getting through the entirety of prog archives would take years, and even then progressive rock is only one genre I'm interested in. So when I'm choosing whether to listen to a song from a band I haven't heard, or from a band I heard one song from, and that song sucked, I'm always going to pick the new one. Sure, it's not a race, but I could be listening to new music until I'm dead if I spent the length of time you whiners want me to on each band.
So if you're advocating for a particular band, realize that
-if they're really that good, they might show up on a best-of list and then I'll give them a better shot, and
-by quitting quickly when they didn't appeal to me, I was able to get to more bands that had a better chance of being my preference.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
GGG [Primer] Omnath, Big Green Beatstick Machine GGG
Well you did convince me to use some best-of lists in addition to my spreadsheet of equality, so it wasn't a total waste of time.
I really can't justify blowing half an hour listening to something when I hate the first song though, unless I've got some reason to think it's a bad representation. Especially not when there are so many other bands out there. I mean sure, maybe I rate them a 3 when they deserved a 5 or a 4 when they deserved a 6, but at the end of the day it doesn't make any difference, it just matters whether I ultimately buy their album or not. There are very few bands (none that come to mind) that have gone from "I hate this" to "I'm buying this album". So when a band starts off weak, yeah, generally speaking I'll save myself some time to spend on more likely candidates.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Maynard James Keenan is my favorite vocalist. You said you're not huge on APC but I'm curious what you think of Puscifer?
Death to crystal-clear, glossy mixing jobs
Death to ignorant music fans.
Death to crystal-clear, glossy mixing jobs
Death to ignorant music fans.
Cake's "Fashion Nugget" - fun overall, not a lot of songs I totally love but enjoyable to listen to in the background.
Circus Maximus's "Nine" - Freaking awesome start to finish. A few weak songs but lots of truly great ones. Unusual sound for prog metal, a little poppier but nonetheless excellent.
Symphony X's "V - the new mythology suite" - already heard a lot of the songs, fallen, oracle and the witness, etc are excellent. A lot of great songs but it does feel a bit long by the end.
The Lonely Island's "Incredibad" - Very few prog elements. Some bull**** about a boat. I don't get it.
Riverside's "Second Life Syndrome" - this came heavily recommended from prog archives, and while it was solid (intro was very promising) it didn't blow me away. Sort of monotonous after a while for me.
Tenacious D's "Tenacious D" - one star because this album sent me to the hospital with a sprained wang after attempting a "**** pushup".
Circus Maximus's Isolate & The first chapter - Nine convinced me to buy these 2 as well. While not as good as Nine they're both quite solid as well.
Now, on to fan mail.
I don't hate APC and "Outsider" is one of my favorite songs, but a lot of their stuff doesn't gel for me. it's just not as consistently good as Tool.
I do enjoy puscifer although the lyrics aren't nearly up to Tool standards. It's fun, but not especially meaningful. But everything doesn't have to be.
That's an interesting, if poorly explained, opinion. I'm disappointed you couldn't come up with a portmanteau for dream theater along with Opeth (unless there's actually a band called blo-peth and i'm totally misreading you).
Did you consider Dumb Theater? It might sound a little blunt, but don't forget the basics.
no offense but I'd consider the best voice in death metal to be equivalent to the world's tallest midget.
It just isn't my thing.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Diablo Swing Orchestra (butcher's ballroom, sing-along songs for the damned and delirious, pandora's pinata): DSO totally blew me away tbh, they use some totally out-of-nowhere styles and instruments - mostly a combo of metal, jazz, and opera in their first album but by pinata they're using freaking flamenco, digeridoos, electronic...but the completely insane thing is that it's totally, amazingly listenable. Not arty and pretentious, not requiring ten playthroughs to really 'get', it's just great, fun, exciting music right out of the box, with some crazy awesome experimental stuff woven impossibly smoothly into it. Can't believe I haven't come across them before. 9.5 for ballroom and pinata, 8.5 for sing-along songs. for reals.
Edenbridge (all of their albums): this is clearly on the outskirts of prog, but for symphonic metal I thought it was really powerful and catchy...some of their earlier stuff is sorta meh (sometimes VERY meh), but solitaire and myearthdream are both amazing...favorite song is probably "place of higher power". I like a band that's improving. 9 for solitaire and myearthdream, 5 for eden, others in between.
Midnattsol (The Metamorphosis Melody): definitely got nothing on Edenbridge in the realm of gothic-ish female-fronted metal. I was hoping for more folkishness, but it's still a solid album, although nothing super excites me. 7
Queensryche (Promised Land): very solid album, but I've only listened through it once. Doubt it's as good as mindcrime, but then go figure. 7.5
Uriah Heep (Demons and Wizards): I have a laugh a bit that this used to be "heavy metal" but whatever, it's fun and catchy and retro. It probably makes me a bad prog rock fan but Easy livin' is easily my favorite on the album. 7.
Shadow Gallery (Room V) - my favorite is still definitely Archer of Ben Salem, there are some other catchy tunes though...vocals aren't amazing though. 7.
King Crimson (Court of Crimson King, In the Wake of Poseidon) I know i'm gonna get in trouble from true prog fans for anything bad I say about old KC, but I did find some of the latter tracks on cotck to be sorta slow for my tastes. It was fun to notice the elements that have been integrated into later bands, though. 7.
Stolen Babies (Naught) - eesh, this was a mistake. Filistata from their first album was good and they had some other stuff that made me think I'd like them...but definitely not so much. vocals get really annoying after a while. 3.5
Lonely Island (turtleneck and chain) - fun and silly, heard most of them already but whatever. 6.5.
Redemption (origins of ruin) - decent prog outing but it's got nothing on the fullness of time. 7.
Tenacious D (Rise of Fenix) - better than I expected. title track is fun. 6.
Vanden Plas (Beyond Daylight) - loved Chirst 0, didn't realy like clockwork, Beyond Daylight seems closer to the middle. It's not as immediately interesting as Christ 0 but it doesn't annoy me like clockwork. 7.
To-Mera (Delusions) - pretty hard proggy metal, female vocalist. Solid but got sorta washed out after listening to edenbridge and DSO who both dwarf them in my memory. 7.
yeah it's ok, i'm not blown away or anything though. Again, I don't really give a crap unless it's something I might actually want to put in my library, and wintersun is clearly not that.
I've revised my opinion of camel somewhat and I'll let snow goose or whatever pass as a misstep. Still dunno that they're on the my list to buy though. I'm really tilted more towards prog metal at the mo, and I'm even trying to find some good folk metal (read: no harsh vocals, which is sorta rare in folk metal for some arbitrary reason).
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Right? They're way better than every other similar band I've heard, to the point where it's ruined me for the genre. I heard "shine" and thought "eh, well they're worth a listen i guess," but their 2 most recent albums blew me away.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6