albums:
1 The Theory of Everything by Ayreon
2 Metropolis pt 2: Scenes from a memory by Dream Theater
3 MyEarthDream by Edenbridge
4 Butcher's Ballroom by Diablo Swing Orchestra
5 The Black Halo by Kamelot
6 Ritual by Shaman
7 Christ 0 by Vanden Plas
8 Nine by Circus Maximus
9 Rebel Mind by Eumeria
10 Operation: Mindcrime by Queensryche
songs:
1 A Change of Seasons by Dream Theater
2 Perfection? by Guilt Machine
3 Free of Doubt/Faded Crystals by Pathosray
4 Place of Higher Power by Edenbridge
5 Born to Be by Shaman
6 Sin by Circus Maximus
7 Sound of the Apocalypse by Black Bonzo
8 Silently by Vanden Plas
9 Memento Mori by Kamelot
10 March of the Varangian Guard by Turisas
OP:
A little while ago (June, maybe?) it occurred to me that my iPod/android are full of crappy music I don't like, and I really mostly end up listening to the same 20 bands 95% of the time. Just about every band I've heard is because it was on the radio, or a friend recommended it. My exposure to new music sucked.
Also, as hipsters discovered long ago, it's no fun to talk up a band if everyone's already heard them to death.
So, armed with naught but steely determination and a startling amount of free time, I set out to rectify this injustice in the most methodical, unfeeling, robotic way possible.
For science.
Step 1) I figured I'd start with progressive rock and metal, since that's traditionally been "my jam", as the kids are saying these days. God willing, one day I'll be able to move on to other genres, but for now, it's prog.
Step 2) I went through Wikipedia's entry on progressive rock and copied down the name of every artist listed under progressive metal, symphonic rock, neo-progressive rock, new prog, space rock, and Italian progressive rock. This gave me about ~400 artists to check out. A good start.
Step 3) I put them all into an excel spreadsheet (because what good is anything if it's not in a spreadsheet?) and added columns for the overall quality, the heaviness, and the progressiveness of the music, plus a column for notes, and for the songs I listened to by that artist. Also, some other columns that are somewhat more half-assedly filled out and should probably be ignored.
Step 4) I sat down and plugged every single band into Pandora (yes, Pandora, I don't care if Spotify is better, they wanted my Facebook account info before I could use it and SCREW FACEBOOK). I evaluated them on the above mentioned criteria, and added any new bands that came up to the spreadsheet. If the band was good, I'd listen for a while and sometimes add quite a few bands. If it sucked, I'd switch to the next station pretty quickly, because even scientific integrity isn't worth listening to "Between the Buried and Me" for longer than 10 seconds.
Step 5) For those bands who weren't known to Pandora (marked with a question mark), I used the miracle of the internet and found them on YouTube. Sometimes I'd check the comments section to find similar artists as an equivalent to Pandora, but I'm sort of lazy so usually not.
Of course, remember that all music preferences are subjective. But I do have numbers I made up to back my preferences up...so...I mean, I don't want to say my preferences are BETTER than yours but...well...but yeah....
haven't looked through much of it but so far i've seen a whole bunch of stuff that isn't even close to being prog anything (candlemass really). i'm also not sure on a few points (like female vocals for converge and coheed and cambria) but hey nitpicking.
going through there's a lot of bands i really like that you've just gone "lol harsh vocals" to which saddens me; stuff like agalloch, coroner, death, enslaved. i mean i understand why people dislike harsh vocals, it took me a while to get into them, but i really feel like people are missing out on a lot by just dismissing it (and i am very anal when it comes to vocals).
also how dare you give camel a 2. that is just a crime.
haven't looked through much of it but so far i've seen a whole bunch of stuff that isn't even close to being prog anything (candlemass really). i'm also not sure on a few points (like female vocals for converge and coheed and cambria) but hey nitpicking.
going through there's a lot of bands i really like that you've just gone "lol harsh vocals" to which saddens me; stuff like agalloch, coroner, death, enslaved. i mean i understand why people dislike harsh vocals, it took me a while to get into them, but i really feel like people are missing out on a lot by just dismissing it (and i am very anal when it comes to vocals).
also how dare you give camel a 2. that is just a crime.
Well it started as prog rock (as defined by whatever someone put under that heading in wikipedia, so...) and then whatever was dubbed similar to those bands by Pandora. So there aren't a lot of limits. Although I think I may have included some speed metal, symphonic metal, etc too in the initial list. I'm not totally positive what all I started with, I just remember it was around 400 bands.
"harsh vocals" (aka screaming and growling etc) are not my thing. I mean, I'm sure bagpipe music can be every bit as musically profound as prog rock can, but it's just not my thing. If I rated a band low it doesn't necessarily mean they're a bad band, it means they're a band i don't like, and that's it.
If I had to say WHY it's not my thing, I think it's for 2 reasons -
1) because most of the bands who I immediately hated and involved harsh vocals started out of the gate with harsh vocals and a wall of guitar sound, and I like my songs to be slow-building. I have no problem with the harsh vocals in, for example, "Ticks and Leeches" by Tool, because they're built up to. They have some context, and by that point in the song they mean something. Dialing the song to 11 immediately and staying there, to me, is like a Michael Bay action movie. It's trying too hard to get your attention by being flashy while failing at giving some contrast.
2) Because I find it pretentious, for the same reason I find most "emo" bands pretentious. It's hard to not over-emote when you're screaming into the microphone as loudly as possible. Nothing sounds stupider to me than someone shouting at full volume about some stupid problem in their personal lives. Just get over it, man, everyone else does.
And, besides that, and before you argue with me on those points, the most important reason is because I just don't like them. In some contexts they can be ok, but generally speaking I just don't enjoy listening to them, for the same reason you don't like listening to whatever you don't like listening to.
It's worth noting (possibly in the case of Camel) that if I don't like a song I generally don't listen to more, so maybe that was just a bad song and I'd like others. But after re-listening to that song, I more or less agree with my previous self. The song was repetitive and had no vocals and never hit a satisfying high point for me. I like songs that go places, and that one felt like treading water. But if I've unfairly judged a band based on a single bad song, and that song isn't representative of the rest of their music, feel free to let me know.
It's listed in that column. Looks like "The Snow Goose".
I accidentally listened to "Flight of the Snow Goose" which is apparently a different song, when looking for "The Snow Goose" and I'd have to say that was worse. "The Snow Goose" probably deserves more than 2, maybe more like 3.5, but it's still safely well out of reach of anything I'd consider purchasing (usually anything below 6.5 is out of the running).
By the looks of the wikipedia article, Camel's got a lot of different lineups, though, so it's very possible that they're like King Crimson where I love some albums and loathe others. With 800 bands to go through, though, I usually quit listening if it's not doing anything for me.
If you've got any songs that are especially good by Camel, though, I'm more than willing to give a band a second shot if it's been unfairly rated by a single bad song or album.
i'm not really that much of a fan of the snow goose personally, so i understand why you didn't really like them. mirage is their consensus best album and i agree with it, so check out freefall and nimrodel / the procession / the white rider. they are sort of hit and miss kinda like king crimson since they switch up their styles a bit but they do have some great albums.
i'm not really that much of a fan of the snow goose personally, so i understand why you didn't really like them. mirage is their consensus best album and i agree with it, so check out freefall and nimrodel / the procession / the white rider. they are sort of hit and miss kinda like king crimson since they switch up their styles a bit but they do have some great albums.
Freefall was solid, a bit upbeat sounding for me, but at least a 5.5. I'm digging the multi-part song, though. Fine, I've upgraded them to a 5...I might get the multi-part song as a single or something.
Obviously the system isn't foolproof, it's hard to judge a band based on 1-2 songs, especially if they're as varied and prolific as some prog bands are. But what're you gonna do, it's 800 bloody bands. I can't always be as thorough as I'd like.
yeah read your little 'review' of Amon Amarth and lost all interest in your project.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
For Lists, Click Here EDH: GW: Selvala, Let us help YOU. UB: Mirko Vosk, when outmatched cheat BW: Vish Kal, The Arbiter of Reanimation UG: Prime Speaker Zegana, the science of sorcery RB: Malfegor, Traitor's Haven UW: Daxos, Control-Fort-Tron BG: Pharika, Goddess of Stax RW: Gisela, Boros Control RG: Ruric Thar, a Primal Surge deck RU: Niv-Mizzet the Firemind, Spellslinger?!?! B:(Pauper) Mikaeus the Unhallowed R: Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient: The Power of Engineering
yeah read your little 'review' of Amon Amarth and lost all interest in your project.
see above comments on "harsh vocals".
I'm not trying to be objective or anything. I, personally, dislike the band but I'm not saying they're bad (NOTE: I probably actually say many bands are bad in the notes, but those are informal). Frankly I'd be stunned if there was anyone who wasn't offended by at least a few of my "reviews".
In my defense, at least I'm trying all of these bands before hating them. So I'm not hating through ignorance. I know plenty of people who wouldn't even bother listening. I do my best to go in with an open mind.
I understand I was just contributing and adding in my input with my bias. I appreciate your opinions and your time on this project. I would recommend for AA looking at the later works With Oden on our Side and above for the cleaner production. also a note on Johan's harsh vocals, that's just his voice. I saw them live and he roars when he speaks.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
For Lists, Click Here EDH: GW: Selvala, Let us help YOU. UB: Mirko Vosk, when outmatched cheat BW: Vish Kal, The Arbiter of Reanimation UG: Prime Speaker Zegana, the science of sorcery RB: Malfegor, Traitor's Haven UW: Daxos, Control-Fort-Tron BG: Pharika, Goddess of Stax RW: Gisela, Boros Control RG: Ruric Thar, a Primal Surge deck RU: Niv-Mizzet the Firemind, Spellslinger?!?! B:(Pauper) Mikaeus the Unhallowed R: Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient: The Power of Engineering
- Blotted Science. Instrumental prog-metal madness. Some of the most cerebral compositions you'll ever hear, but it never comes across as being esoteric. Pretty damn heavy, too, for an instrumental group.
- Radiance. This is the side project of one of the guitarists from Necrophagist. It's similarly heavy but in a different way, and has electronic flourishes. The vocals, however, are completely different and probably more up your alley. They're definitely more power-metallish, courtesy of Mats Leven. Their entire album "The Burning Sun" is available for streaming for free, courtesy of the band.
- There was a prog-metal band from Edmonton called Portal (not to be mistaken for probably 5 other bands called Portal) that were like a mix between Tool and Porcupine Tree, but with fairly overt political tones to some of their songs. Their album "Blood Red Tape" was excellent. I suggest trying to find some material off it. My recommendations would be the songs "Your Kettle," "The Kingdom," "Six Degrees" and "We Kuffar."
- Disillusion. Yes, this band has harsh vocals, but hear me out. Their album "Back To Times Of Splendor" is an incredible emotional journey, and remains to this day my favorite album EVER. Alas, their second album, Gloria, is... while I can't say it's bad, it's so incredibly different that I just can't listen to it. But seriously, every song off Back To Times Of Splendor is incredible. They're unique in almost all the bands that I've listened to in that their lyrics are very poetic, but never melodramatic or trite. For good songs without harsh vocals, listen to the songs "Fall" and "A Day By The Lake."
Some other notes:
- Why is the only In Flames song you listened to an instrumental? They're not an instrumental band. For an idea of what they sound like regularly, listen to "Ordinary Story," "Square Nothing," and "Colony." Be warned, harsh vocals. Also, don't listen to anything they released post-"Soundtrack To Your Escape," it pretty much uniformly sucks. Before that is uniformly awesome. Their best instrumental is "Man Made God," and has been a favorite of mine for years.
- Adagio has had multiple vocalists over the years, but the guy they had on their first 2 albums "Sanctus Ignis" and "Underworld," David Readman, simply destroyed. He's one of my favorite clean singers. Listen to the songs "Next Profundis," "Introitus/Solvet Saeclum in Favilla," and "Underworld."
- Your review of Opeth is kind of hilarious for someone with perspective on the matter. I can understand that you don't know anything about them, but know this, they are a DEATH METAL band. "In My Time of Need" is from the album "Damnation," which is a one-off in their discography, sort of an experiment in mellow prog. For a better idea of what they sound like, listen to the songs "The Moor," "Ghost of Perdition" and "The Drapery Falls." Again, harsh vocals, although interspersed with cleans.
- The Pain of Salvation song you listened to is from the album "BE," which did have some strange instrumentation. For a more accurate representation of what they sound like, listen to the songs "In the Flesh," "The Perfect Element" and "Beyond the Pale." Daniel Gildenlow is one of the most talented singers on the planet.
- You definitely hit the mellower side of Porcupine Tree. For songs with a harder edge, listen to "Blackest Eyes" (which is both whimsical and dark), "Arriving Somewhere But Not Here" and "Fear of a Blank Planet."
- I used to be in a metal band with one of the guitarists from Secret and Whisper. He played bass, I played guitar. Yes, this note is as pointless as you've guessed.
- Vanden Plas is certainly liberal with their spiritual metaphors, but I don't believe they're a "christian band." More likely a band of christians. One of their albums "Christ.0," is in fact about the Count of Monte Cristo, not Christ (despite the obvious presence of the H in the album title).
- I know you don't like Wintersun's vocals, if nothing else, listen to the song "Winter Madness," for it contains one of the most awesome shredfest guitar solos ever recorded. The song "Death and the Healing" is also well worth checking out a) no harsh vocals, only clean, and b) some pretty creative soloing.
EDIT: If you ever wanted to hear truly great prog metal get ruined by truly terrible vocals, listen to the song "From Space To Time" by Linear Sphere. Don't listen to anything else. The first few minutes (it's a 23 minute song) are excellent, full of some great solos and riffs (one of the guitarists now plays in Haken). Then the vocals come in. You will die a little inside, but only while you piss yourself laughing. It's that horrendous, but it must be heard.
- Blotted Science. Instrumental prog-metal madness. Some of the most cerebral compositions you'll ever hear, but it never comes across as being esoteric. Pretty damn heavy, too, for an instrumental group.
- Radiance. This is the side project of one of the guitarists from Necrophagist. It's similarly heavy but in a different way, and has electronic flourishes. The vocals, however, are completely different and probably more up your alley. They're definitely more power-metallish, courtesy of Mats Leven. Their entire album "The Burning Sun" is available for streaming for free, courtesy of the band.
- There was a prog-metal band from Edmonton called Portal (not to be mistaken for probably 5 other bands called Portal) that were like a mix between Tool and Porcupine Tree, but with fairly overt political tones to some of their songs. Their album "Blood Red Tape" was excellent. I suggest trying to find some material off it. My recommendations would be the songs "Your Kettle," "The Kingdom," "Six Degrees" and "We Kuffar."
- Disillusion. Yes, this band has harsh vocals, but hear me out. Their album "Back To Times Of Splendor" is an incredible emotional journey, and remains to this day my favorite album EVER. Alas, their second album, Gloria, is... while I can't say it's bad, it's so incredibly different that I just can't listen to it. But seriously, every song off Back To Times Of Splendor is incredible. They're unique in almost all the bands that I've listened to in that their lyrics are very poetic, but never melodramatic or trite. For good songs without harsh vocals, listen to the songs "Fall" and "A Day By The Lake."
Some other notes:
- Why is the only In Flames song you listened to an instrumental? They're not an instrumental band. For an idea of what they sound like regularly, listen to "Ordinary Story," "Square Nothing," and "Colony." Be warned, harsh vocals. Also, don't listen to anything they released post-"Soundtrack To Your Escape," it pretty much uniformly sucks. Before that is uniformly awesome. Their best instrumental is "Man Made God," and has been a favorite of mine for years.
- Adagio has had multiple vocalists over the years, but the guy they had on their first 2 albums "Sanctus Ignis" and "Underworld," David Readman, simply destroyed. He's one of my favorite clean singers. Listen to the songs "Next Profundis," "Introitus/Solvet Saeclum in Favilla," and "Underworld."
- Your review of Opeth is kind of hilarious for someone with perspective on the matter. I can understand that you don't know anything about them, but know this, they are a DEATH METAL band. "In My Time of Need" is from the album "Damnation," which is a one-off in their discography, sort of an experiment in mellow prog. For a better idea of what they sound like, listen to the songs "The Moor," "Ghost of Perdition" and "The Drapery Falls." Again, harsh vocals, although interspersed with cleans.
- The Pain of Salvation song you listened to is from the album "BE," which did have some strange instrumentation. For a more accurate representation of what they sound like, listen to the songs "In the Flesh," "The Perfect Element" and "Beyond the Pale." Daniel Gildenlow is one of the most talented singers on the planet.
- You definitely hit the mellower side of Porcupine Tree. For songs with a harder edge, listen to "Blackest Eyes" (which is both whimsical and dark), "Arriving Somewhere But Not Here" and "Fear of a Blank Planet."
- I used to be in a metal band with one of the guitarists from Secret and Whisper. He played bass, I played guitar. Yes, this note is as pointless as you've guessed.
- Vanden Plas is certainly liberal with their spiritual metaphors, but I don't believe they're a "christian band." More likely a band of christians. One of their albums "Christ.0," is in fact about the Count of Monte Cristo, not Christ (despite the obvious presence of the H in the album title).
- I know you don't like Wintersun's vocals, if nothing else, listen to the song "Winter Madness," for it contains one of the most awesome shredfest guitar solos ever recorded. The song "Death and the Healing" is also well worth checking out a) no harsh vocals, only clean, and b) some pretty creative soloing.
EDIT: If you ever wanted to hear truly great prog metal get ruined by truly terrible vocals, listen to the song "From Space To Time" by Linear Sphere. Don't listen to anything else. The first few minutes (it's a 23 minute song) are excellent, full of some great solos and riffs (one of the guitarists now plays in Haken). Then the vocals come in. You will die a little inside, but only while you piss yourself laughing. It's that horrendous, but it must be heard.
Thanks for all the feedback!
Swear I listened to blotted science before when i was youtubing. Just didn't add it to the list I guess. Anyway it's been added. Yes, they're quite good for an instrumental band. I really need vocals to get really excited about a band though. 6.5.
Radiance is solid, I'm not totally sold on the vocals but they're not bad. Instrumentals are fun. Call it another 6.5.
Portal reminds me of a perfect circle, and for whatever reason i've never liked APC nearly as much as tool. So they're ok but not great. 5.5.
Disillusion doesn't sound terribly "progressive" to me, but their guitar sound is fun enough and the vocals on "Fall" are pretty solid. Their sound doesn't really stick with me, though, and I had to keep relistening to it to get a bead on a score, so it's a 6.
Weird about in flames since I've had some of their stuff on my ipod since forever (a friend recommended it and it's been sitting there largely unlistened to since I realized it had harsh vocals). Anyway yeah, solid instrumentals but I'm still not into the vocals. 5.
The Adagio tracks were worth a listen but it doesn't really change my score one way or another. 6.5 feels comfortable.
I swear I've heard Opeth elsewhere too, although it's possible I'm confusing them with Otep because I do that all the damn time. The guitars on "The Moor" are great but then the vocals come in and...yeah, not my cup of tea. 4.
Pain of Salvation is definitely interesting, but it's not memorable or exciting enough for me to give more than a 6.5. Generally, if I give a band a 7 or better it's because I want to buy their music, and I don't see myself really feeling like listening to them very often.
I do like those porcupine tree songs. oddly catchy.
Don't get me wrong about Vanden Plas - Christ 0 is one of the best albums I've heard on this little project (it's probably between that and Eumeria's "Rebel Mind"). But after excitedly buying "The Seraphic Clockwork" I found myself somewhat offput by the frequency of the religious elements, and none of the songs really interested me as much as Christ 0. So...I dunno. If Christ 0 was a good story with religious symbolism, then clockwork felt more like a sermon. I might check out their earlier stuff, but with a little less enthusiasm than I had coming off Christ 0.
I listened to the whole wintersun song. Indeed, the guitar is sick. My relationship with harsh vocals is increasingly resembling my relationship with spiciness on food - I can tolerate it more and more, but I still don't get any enjoyment out of it.
Couldn't find "from space to time" but I found some other songs from linear sphere. After being slightly confused after listening to a newer song, I realized they must have gotten a new vocalist after their first album. Because yeah, their original vocalist sounds awful.
Damn, that was a lot of homework. Thanks for killing an hour of my time!
Your comments are quite amusing, and you've definitely put together quite an extensive list.
Based on some of what you like there, you might like the prog metal band Dreamscape. I don't remember seeing them on your list. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vm8Qampiim4 (If you've got 21 minutes to kill, otherwise you can look for a shorter song). Probably a step down from something like Dream Theater, but decent nonetheless.
I also love how you actually have Tarot there. I'm quite a fan of theirs, but I can definitely understand (at least on their most recent album) that the singing is pretty meh at times (their secondary singer does more vocals on that album than any other, and I don't care for his voice). Crows Fly Black was better, in my opinion (Ashes To The Stars: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaGGWGo7zqA)
...Not that I'm trying to promote them in any way...
Hopefully you find a good range of music you like, either way. I did something like this recently, too, except it was far less scientific (As a scientist, I should be ashamed).
Every time I think of something else to suggest, I see that it's already on the list. (Usually with good comments, at least)
And of course, remember that all music preferences are subjective. But I do have numbers I made up to back my preferences up...so...I mean, I don't want to say my preferences are BETTER than yours but...well...but yeah....
Your comments are quite amusing, and you've definitely put together quite an extensive list.
Based on some of what you like there, you might like the prog metal band Dreamscape. I don't remember seeing them on your list. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vm8Qampiim4 (If you've got 21 minutes to kill, otherwise you can look for a shorter song). Probably a step down from something like Dream Theater, but decent nonetheless.
I also love how you actually have Tarot there. I'm quite a fan of theirs, but I can definitely understand (at least on their most recent album) that the singing is pretty meh at times (their secondary singer does more vocals on that album than any other, and I don't care for his voice). Crows Fly Black was better, in my opinion (Ashes To The Stars: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaGGWGo7zqA)
...Not that I'm trying to promote them in any way...
Hopefully you find a good range of music you like, either way. I did something like this recently, too, except it was far less scientific (As a scientist, I should be ashamed).
Every time I think of something else to suggest, I see that it's already on the list. (Usually with good comments, at least)
Thanks for the great feedback!
I'm shocked that I missed Dreamscape up until now, I listened to the full 20-minute song and it was one of the best I've heard on this project. (longer = better, of course...my all-time favorite song is Dream Theater's "A Change of Seasons" which is a few minutes longer than "The End of Light") I'm giving them an 8, and I'd be surprised if I didn't buy at least a couple of their albums.
Which reminds me...if anyone has a good source to find more bands (i.e. I found Eumeria on PerfectProg and they're one of my new favs) those would be much appreciated.
I did like that Tarot song a lot more, so I've upgraded them to a 7.
I'm working through (albeit more slowly as I have less free time these days) the last few ?s in the spreadsheet, and once I'm satisfied that I've delved deeply enough I'll be going a lot more in-depth on the 7+ ones and comparing them to each other. It's kind of tricky keeping a clear palate while doing this...sometimes I'll have 5 boring ambient "music" "artists" in a row, and then anything else will sound awesome. Or I'll have a ton of fun power metal, and my standards will get unreasonably high because I feel like I'm giving too many high ratings. So hopefully once I've narrowed the list down a bit and I can really focus on the artists and compare them, I'll put together a top picks list.
It's also a thinly veiled joke. Music preferences are 100% subjective. Anyone saying otherwise is selling something.
I'm not really claiming to even have good taste per se...I like what I like, though, and if I don't like a band, even if many people say it's a good band, I'm not going to fake it to fit in. Same for the inverse.
If I rate your favorite band low, I'm not saying your band sucks, despite jokes to the contrary. I'm not a music reviewer and I'm not trying to be objective. I'm saying that I, personally, didn't enjoy listening to them. That's just a fact. If my musical preferences align with yours, then maybe the list will give you some good bands to look up. If they don't, then maybe it won't be very useful. In that case, I'd encourage you to make your own.
That said, I've got a list of 850 bands and you disagreed with one? (which, in fairness, I didn't exactly bloodily massacre with a 4) wow, shocker. I don't even think we can relate as human beings if we can't agree on every single band in an 850-long list.
Damn, that was a lot of homework. Thanks for killing an hour of my time!
Shoulda taken you a lot longer than an hour to listen to the homework I gave you.
My initial impression is honestly this: though you ARE a fan of the prog "sound" you're not as much of a fan of prog songwriting style. All true prog fans know that patience = payoff, and I'm betting you were hitting your fast forward button at frequent intervals.
Shoulda taken you a lot longer than an hour to listen to the homework I gave you.
My initial impression is honestly this: though you ARE a fan of the prog "sound" you're not as much of a fan of prog songwriting style. All true prog fans know that patience = payoff, and I'm betting you were hitting your fast forward button at frequent intervals.
You know what's funny, I actually reread that post and thought "that definitely took longer than an hour...but eh, whatever, I wasn't really timing it and he'll get the gist of the stupid little offhand comment without me busting out a stopwatch." I think it probably took about twice that long, but in fairness I was doing other stuff some of the time while listening and it wasn't all contiguous time.
I definitely don't have infinite patience for songs that I don't like, so it's definitely true that I'll skip songs I don't think are going to be good - rarely do I skip ahead unless I just want to double check that it's going to suck before skipping the rest of it. But I've got no problem whatsoever listening to long songs if they're good - I listened to all 20+ minutes of that dreamscape song without doing much else and without even considering skipping. I love a good long buildup song, like "Ocatvarium", "A Change of Seasons" and "Home" by DT, or "Ticks and Leeches" and "10,000 days" by Tool.
Of course, I'm not ALWAYS in a prog mood. Some days I just want the instant gratification of bad religion or flogging molly. But when I want prog, I like it to start with a subtle instrumental section and build until it blows my ****ing mind at the end.
(speaking of instrumental intros that kick ass, this sucker is another major gem I've found that isn't very well-known. As long as we're giving each other homework )
I guess the gist of what I'm trying to say is "yeah, well....nuh-huh..."
EDIT: actually now that I think about it, I did listen to the whole radiance album. So I was probably way off with 1 hour
I wasn't trying to be snarky, I just felt that when you said it only took an hour to listen to the stuff I had written, you hadn't really given it a fair shake, which led me to make an (incorrect) assumption about your tastes. If you say "an hour" was an offhand guess at how much time had passed, then I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and won't take it so literally.
Another song I think you might enjoy is "Mouth of Madness" by Circus Maximus. It's a sort of slow burner, and despite being not particularly heavy, is noticeably less cheesy than a lot of their faster paced material (and there's no doubt, they do bring the cheese quite often). Based on the examples you provided for long songs (all of which I agree are excellent, by the way), I think it'll be right up your alley.
On the other end of the prog metal epic scale, you'd probably also really like "The Odyssey" by Syphony X.
Also, one band that I CANNOT BELIEVE I forgot to mention is Indukti. They are *mostly* instrumental and don't have an official vocalist, but the singer from Riverside provided vocals on a few of the songs on their first album, S.U.S.A.R., which is excellent. Start with "Freder," "Cold Inside...," "No. 11812" and "No. 11811."
The Karnivool song you listened to was from Themata. Listen to some stuff from their second album, "Sound Awake." It's a better album, IMO, and certainly more progressive.
Interesting side note about Scar Symmetry, for their first 3 albums they actually only had one vocalist who provided all the clean and harsh vocals. When he left the band, they had to replace him with 2 vocalists (neither of which I prefer over the original guy).
good/bad/awesome/hair-pulling-out news. Browsing around for lists of more prog musicians, I discovered that ProgArchives was happy to oblige my desire for a more comprehensive list.
Their list of Prog Metal musicians looks to be around 800 musicians, most of whom aren't on my list, and they've got 21 other subgenres of prog in addition to prog metal.
In other words:
Soooooo....
So so so....
I'm thinking I'm going to have to get a little smarter with my methods and do this little project in batches. So far I've only bought like 7 albums that I was particularly excited about, and the other ones I rated highly are sort of stuck in stasis pending phase 2. So rather than wait until I've listened to the god-knows-how-many prog artists in the progArchives list, I'm going to go ahead and whittle down my list of 7s until I've got a few dozen or so that I really like and then buy some music. Then I'll sit down and start going through the progArchives list. At some point, presumably, the heat death of the universe will occur, but I'm too busy to worry about that until it happens.
I wasn't trying to be snarky, I just felt that when you said it only took an hour to listen to the stuff I had written, you hadn't really given it a fair shake, which led me to make an (incorrect) assumption about your tastes. If you say "an hour" was an offhand guess at how much time had passed, then I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and won't take it so literally.
Another song I think you might enjoy is "Mouth of Madness" by Circus Maximus. It's a sort of slow burner, and despite being not particularly heavy, is noticeably less cheesy than a lot of their faster paced material (and there's no doubt, they do bring the cheese quite often). Based on the examples you provided for long songs (all of which I agree are excellent, by the way), I think it'll be right up your alley.
On the other end of the prog metal epic scale, you'd probably also really like "The Odyssey" by Syphony X.
Also, one band that I CANNOT BELIEVE I forgot to mention is Indukti. They are *mostly* instrumental and don't have an official vocalist, but the singer from Riverside provided vocals on a few of the songs on their first album, S.U.S.A.R., which is excellent. Start with "Freder," "Cold Inside...," "No. 11812" and "No. 11811."
The Karnivool song you listened to was from Themata. Listen to some stuff from their second album, "Sound Awake." It's a better album, IMO, and certainly more progressive.
Interesting side note about Scar Symmetry, for their first 3 albums they actually only had one vocalist who provided all the clean and harsh vocals. When he left the band, they had to replace him with 2 vocalists (neither of which I prefer over the original guy).
Mouth of Madness is very solid. Although you don't have to sell me on circus maximus, they're already comfortably in planning-to-buy range with an 8. Cheese and all
I've heard The Odyssey before and didn't really like it that much, although I might have been comparing it unfairly to "A Change of Seasons". On my second listen, I found more to like, although I'm still not a fan of the first (instrumental) movement...it reminds me a lot of the intro to DT's "six degrees of inner turbulence", which I always thought felt sort of padded and unfocused compared to their other, somewhat shorter Seasons and Octavarium. Maybe it's just a little too major-key, idk. After the first movement it's a lot stronger, although it must be said that, as an English major, I always hated the character of Odysseus. My favorite Symphony X album is probably V, though. Anyway they're also at a solid 8.
Indukti had some very solid instrumentals, weirdly I think I liked it more without the vocals as they didn't seem to fit all that well into the instrumentals in "Cold Inside..." (the vocals in Freder were fine though). Call it a narrow 7.
I've bumped up Karnivool to a 7 after listening to a few tracks from Sound Awake, although most of their tracks were a bit on the soft side for me. Gotta say, I hate their name though.
I've heard The Odyssey before and didn't really like it that much, although I might have been comparing it unfairly to "A Change of Seasons". On my second listen, I found more to like, although I'm still not a fan of the first (instrumental) movement...it reminds me a lot of the intro to DT's "six degrees of inner turbulence", which I always thought felt sort of padded and unfocused compared to their other, somewhat shorter Seasons and Octavarium. Maybe it's just a little too major-key, idk. After the first movement it's a lot stronger, although it must be said that, as an English major, I always hated the character of Odysseus. My favorite Symphony X album is probably V, though. Anyway they're also at a solid 8.
V is my favorite album from a songwriting perspective. The reason it loses points personally is because the production is not particularly good, even compared to their other stuff. It's probably sonically their worst sounding album besides their first 2. (And, let's be honest, those don't really exist, kind of like "When Dreams And Day Unite," or every Pantera album prior to Cowboys From Hell. TRUE Symphony X really begins on The Divine Wings of Tragedy. ;)) Granted, Michael Romeo has never had a particularly great overdriven rhythm tone, but it sounds especially bad on that album. On the plus side, the cleans do sound great, when they do show up, such as Communion and the Oracle (which actually happens to be my favorite SX song).
I'm really surprised you didn't know about Prog Archives. I've been using that site since about 2006.
If I rate your favorite band low, I'm not saying your band sucks, despite jokes to the contrary. I'm not a music reviewer and I'm not trying to be objective. I'm saying that I, personally, didn't enjoy listening to them. That's just a fact. If my musical preferences align with yours, then maybe the list will give you some good bands to look up. If they don't, then maybe it won't be very useful. In that case, I'd encourage you to make your own.
That said, I've got a list of 850 bands and you disagreed with one? (which, in fairness, I didn't exactly bloodily massacre with a 4) wow, shocker. I don't even think we can relate as human beings if we can't agree on every single band in an 850-long list.
Only looked at 1 at first. More what I have a problem with, is that you're listening to one song and grading a band on that, and most time it's not the best work. I'm assuming you are just clicking the first link on youtube and saying that you listened to a band. You taking art out of context and judging it on its merits. "Female Vocals" under converge. "Popcrap" under Battles. "Retro metal" for cave-in. None of that fits outside of the context of a single song. Take other more famous bands, and listen to their most popular work, very rarely do you get a complete sense of what they do. I understand you have a large list, but you should probably shorten the list to the more critically acclaimed stuff and broaden the amount you listen to of each band. Because you set out to get a sense of what's out there, and you still have no idea what any of these newly discovered bands actually do.
Also calling Protest The Hero "hard to listen to" is laughable. As is saying Between the buried and me is god awful, (giving them a 4 for progisiveness is also outrageously out of touch with the truth). You should try not to listen to the worst track on the album for both of those bands.
Is the "Giraffe" on your list "Giraffes? Giraffes!"?
V is my favorite album from a songwriting perspective. The reason it loses points personally is because the production is not particularly good, even compared to their other stuff. It's probably sonically their worst sounding album besides their first 2. (And, let's be honest, those don't really exist, kind of like "When Dreams And Day Unite," or every Pantera album prior to Cowboys From Hell. TRUE Symphony X really begins on The Divine Wings of Tragedy. ;)) Granted, Michael Romeo has never had a particularly great overdriven rhythm tone, but it sounds especially bad on that album. On the plus side, the cleans do sound great, when they do show up, such as Communion and the Oracle (which actually happens to be my favorite SX song).
I'm really surprised you didn't know about Prog Archives. I've been using that site since about 2006.
Hey, I've got "When Dream and Day Unite". Although it doesn't appear to be on iTunes. So maybe it doesn't exist and I'm living a lie.
Communion and the Oracle is rock solid, for sure.
I've been to prog archives before (i copied their current top 50 into my spreadsheet at some point) but I didn't notice the huge lists they had under each genre. I'd really just looked up specific artists and reviews and stuff. Seeing 800 more prog metal bands...yikes. Sort of a mind-blower.
Only looked at 1 at first. More what I have a problem with, is that you're listening to one song and grading a band on that, and most time it's not the best work. I'm assuming you are just clicking the first link on youtube and saying that you listened to a band. You taking art out of context and judging it on its merits. "Female Vocals" under converge. "Popcrap" under Battles. "Retro metal" for cave-in. None of that fits outside of the context of a single song. Take other more famous bands, and listen to their most popular work, very rarely do you get a complete sense of what they do. I understand you have a large list, but you should probably shorten the list to the more critically acclaimed stuff and broaden the amount you listen to of each band. Because you set out to get a sense of what's out there, and you still have no idea what any of these newly discovered bands actually do.
Also calling Protest The Hero "hard to listen to" is laughable. As is saying Between the buried and me is god awful, (giving them a 4 for progisiveness is also outrageously out of touch with the truth). You should try not to listen to the worst track on the album for both of those bands.
Is the "Giraffe" on your list "Giraffes? Giraffes!"?
There's a simple matter of practicality here. My list's already up to 850, and by the time I'm done with progArchives, if that ever happens, it'll probably be in the thousands, even if I skip a bunch of the subgenres i'm less interested in. Sure, given infinite time I'd listen to a long sampling from every artist, so I could be absolutely certain that I hated everything about "Between the Buried and Me" instead of just 99% sure, but life is too short.
If a band catches my ear, I'm more than happy to listen to more of their stuff and get a broader picture of their music. But if song #1 sucks, I'm not going to bother, not with so many other artists without a strike against them. Does that mean there might be casualties? Sure, if I'd never heard of Dream Theater and the first song I heard was "The Silent Man" I'd probably give them a 2 and a snarky comment and move on. But on some level, you've got to play the odds - either you risk that you just heard a bad song from a good artist, or you risk that you never got around to other artists who might have been better because you wasted all your time on someone who just sucked.
Imo, the better gamble is quantity > depth. For instance, Eumeria, who are one of my favorite bands to come out of this mess, aren't even popular enough to have a wikipedia page.
Come on, this is metal, a genre of music who's fans are CONSTANTLY *****ing is overlooked by the mainstream (I defy you to find a metal song on youtube that doesn't have "ARG WHY IS KATY PERRY POPULAR WHEN NO ONE HAS HEARD OF THESE GENIUSES!!!!!" in the comments). Are you really going to tell me to stick to the more popular stuff?
I said it in the first post - if you've got a band you think was misrepresented by the song I heard, then feel free to tell me. I'm more than willing to give them a second chance if you think I'll like their other stuff more. For example, I just listened to another "Between the Buried and Me" song (Astral Body) and was forced to admit that the guitar was quite solid, until their vocalist opened his mouth, and the wretching noises I couldn't stop making still sounded better than his vocals.
The "progressiveness" column is sort of stupid, and I've considered getting rid of it many times...it's really just to separate the standard rock (<5) from the power metal (5-6) from the true progressive (>6). I usually don't put a lot of thought into it, especially not on bands I never intend to listen to again. If I rank the band lower than a 5 for the overall rating, I pretty much just roll a dice for the progressiveness and move on, because it doesn't matter.
"Giraffe" is "Giraffe", it was copied directly from wikipedia. I wasn't able to find them anywhere on pandora or youtube though. Odds are it was some idiot putting his garage band on the wikipedia list...it wouldn't be the first.
Regarding Between the Buried and Me, they're a band that has always polarized me. Some of their stuff I find almost unlistenable. Other material of theirs is solid gold.
The one song of theirs that I think you might get along with quite well is "Selkies: The Endless Obsession." The solo section towards the end still gives me goosebumps. It has one of the most masterfully executed key changes I've ever heard. Not the kind of the thing that usually turns heads, but in that one section of this song, it's actually quite beautiful. Give it a spin.
Also, while there's no standout track, as an album, "Colors" is a far more consistently enjoyable listen than any of their other material IMO, although it's certainly meant to be taken in as a whole. Granted, Form Born (B) is one of the songs from that album, so take it with a grain of salt.
If you want a taste of how capable they are at building a mood, they have some pretty decent instrumental interludes. Listen to "Medicine Wheel" and "Viridian."
Sure, if I'd never heard of Dream Theater and the first song I heard was "The Silent Man" I'd probably give them a 2 and a snarky comment and move on.
Hey, I like that song!
Actually, truth be told, it's my acoustic go-to song. As a guitarist, one of the more annoying things I have to endure is "You play guitar?! Play something nice!" I can't exactly jump into "Erotomania" in that sort of situation, so "The Silent Man" is kind of my equivalent of "Wonderwall." It's easy to play and sing to, it's got lyrics that seem deep to someone who's never heard it before, and it's got plenty of "sparklyprettyness."
But on some level, you've got to play the odds - either you risk that you just heard a bad song from a good artist, or you risk that you never got around to other artists who might have been better because you wasted all your time on someone who just sucked.
Imo, the better gamble is quantity > depth. For instance, Eumeria, who are one of my favorite bands to come out of this mess, aren't even popular enough to have a wikipedia page.
I'll be honest, I disagree with your approach, because you're not taking advantage of something that the internet provides in spades: aggregated information. There's a reason sites like Rotten Tomatoes exist, and while you may not always agree with profesionnal film critics regarding a particular film, the "tomatometer" provides at very least a reasonable barometer of a film's quality. So it is with album reviews. I've found pretty much every group that I listen to this way, and the only time I've ever purchased CDs that disappointed me were when I was going into it blind. The information is out there, and you do have to make use of it, but you're going about it in an extremely inefficient manner.
Regarding Between the Buried and Me, they're a band that has always polarized me. Some of their stuff I find almost unlistenable. Other material of theirs is solid gold.
The one song of theirs that I think you might get along with quite well is "Selkies: The Endless Obsession." The solo section towards the end still gives me goosebumps. It has one of the most masterfully executed key changes I've ever heard. Not the kind of the thing that usually turns heads, but in that one section of this song, it's actually quite beautiful. Give it a spin.
Also, while there's no standout track, as an album, "Colors" is a far more consistently enjoyable listen than any of their other material IMO, although it's certainly meant to be taken in as a whole. Granted, Form Born (B) is one of the songs from that album, so take it with a grain of salt.
If you want a taste of how capable they are at building a mood, they have some pretty decent instrumental interludes. Listen to "Medicine Wheel" and "Viridian."
I'll be honest, I disagree with your approach, because you're not taking advantage of something that the internet provides in spades: aggregated information. There's a reason sites like Rotten Tomatoes exist, and while you may not always agree with profesionnal film critics regarding a particular film, the "tomatometer" provides at very least a reasonable barometer of a film's quality. So it is with album reviews. I've found pretty much every group that I listen to this way, and the only time I've ever purchased CDs that disappointed me were when I was going into it blind. The information is out there, and you do have to make use of it, but you're going about it in an extremely inefficient manner.
On BTBAM, Colors is their best album. Foam Born (B) was the weakest track on the album in my opinion. I was thinking of telling him to check out "Ants of the Sky" because it is probably the best prog metal song ever written. Pachebel's Canon in D Major, a Folk Bar scene, the incredible "Selkies" esque sweeps, and the implied nature of the song saying "Yes, there are basement dweller kids that can shred out these tunes, but can they write it? Can they combine modern metal, advanced time signatures, a classical masterpiece, and a bar scene and make it a cohesive vision?" The answer is no, and the result is an incredible 13 minutes of music. "Selkies: Endless Obsession" is a good song though. Alaska was a decent album.
I also agree with your last paragraph, and you said it much more eloquently then I attempted to. So I'm just gonna say ditto with what you wrote. I find a lot of music through the "charts" section of sputnikmusic. Pitchfork is also pretty decent, if you aren't looking for metal. Stereogum is pretty decent as well.
Regarding Between the Buried and Me, they're a band that has always polarized me. Some of their stuff I find almost unlistenable. Other material of theirs is solid gold.
The one song of theirs that I think you might get along with quite well is "Selkies: The Endless Obsession." The solo section towards the end still gives me goosebumps. It has one of the most masterfully executed key changes I've ever heard. Not the kind of the thing that usually turns heads, but in that one section of this song, it's actually quite beautiful. Give it a spin.
Also, while there's no standout track, as an album, "Colors" is a far more consistently enjoyable listen than any of their other material IMO, although it's certainly meant to be taken in as a whole. Granted, Form Born (B) is one of the songs from that album, so take it with a grain of salt.
If you want a taste of how capable they are at building a mood, they have some pretty decent instrumental interludes. Listen to "Medicine Wheel" and "Viridian."
You've been very constructive and interesting to talk to, but I'm not going to get into BTBAM unless they put an axe in their vocalist's head. The beginning of Selkies was fine, but once he starts growling, I'm out. If you want me to say they're talented musicians (except the vocalist) then I can agree with that, but I don't enjoy listening to them. I'd rather spend my time listening to bands I might actually be interested in.
Hey, I like that song!
Actually, truth be told, it's my acoustic go-to song. As a guitarist, one of the more annoying things I have to endure is "You play guitar?! Play something nice!" I can't exactly jump into "Erotomania" in that sort of situation, so "The Silent Man" is kind of my equivalent of "Wonderwall." It's easy to play and sing to, it's got lyrics that seem deep to someone who's never heard it before, and it's got plenty of "sparklyprettyness."
Haha, sorry, not going to agree with you on Silent man. It sounded even worse live, especially after Endless Sacrifice (which was probably the best song they played when I saw them, despite me shouting "Change of Seasons!" at the top of my lungs between every song. I can dream.) As far as quiet songs off "Awake" (or really off any of their discography), I'll take "Space-Dye Vest" any day.
I'll be honest, I disagree with your approach, because you're not taking advantage of something that the internet provides in spades: aggregated information. There's a reason sites like Rotten Tomatoes exist, and while you may not always agree with profesionnal film critics regarding a particular film, the "tomatometer" provides at very least a reasonable barometer of a film's quality. So it is with album reviews. I've found pretty much every group that I listen to this way, and the only time I've ever purchased CDs that disappointed me were when I was going into it blind. The information is out there, and you do have to make use of it, but you're going about it in an extremely inefficient manner.
I would totally agree with you if I was watching movies, but I disagree on music, for a few reasons.
First, because I think music involves a lot more personal preference than movies do. There are tons of highly-rated albums that I'm going to hate. For instance, I'm never going to buy any music infested with harsh vocals, but reviewers are reviewing it for the people who like that sort of thing. Out of all the music on earth, probably 80%+ of it is excluded from being on my favorites list just from the genre...I don't like country, I don't like pop, I don't like spiritual, I don't like hip-hop, I don't like rap...etc. With movies, I'm capable of loving just about anything if it's good enough.
Second, because I'm really looking for "hidden gems", as it were. It's always just a bit sweeter to find a band that I love when no one else knows about them. I believe I said something to that effect in the OP. Most "top album" lists are either some reviewer's list, limited by what they personally heard, or they require a certain # of reviews, or whatever. For instance, a band I keep mentioning, Eumeria - have you seen them on any lists you check? They've gotten solid reviews but they're relatively unknown.
Thirdly, I don't want to read other peoples' reviews lest they alter my opinions. I think a lot of peoples' opinions are altered by what they've heard about the band, and it all sort of sets off a chain of dominoes that make some bands much more popular than others, even if their talent is basically equal. And I'd like to avoid all of that as much as possible. Everyone starts from a blank slate in my "reviews".
Fourthly, I can usually determine pretty quickly if I can skip the song for the bands that really suck (or just really don't appeal to me). So cropping off the "worst" 50% or so of bands doesn't save THAT much time, since most of my time is spent on the good bands. And cutting off more would increase the odds of missing someone good (or at least, that I personally can enjoy).
If I was really wanting to get fast results, I'd agree with you. But I'd rather dedicate the time, and put together a huge library. I think the risks I'm taking are the ones that give me the best odds of finding something exciting and unknown.
EDIT: oh yeah, and fifthly, because a project this stupid is sort of fun. Sometimes I like to walk home from work even though I could take the bus. Sometimes it's about the journey.
On BTBAM, Colors is their best album. Foam Born (B) was the weakest track on the album in my opinion. I was thinking of telling him to check out "Ants of the Sky" because it is probably the best prog metal song ever written. Pachebel's Canon in D Major, a Folk Bar scene, the incredible "Selkies" esque sweeps, and the implied nature of the song saying "Yes, there are basement dweller kids that can shred out these tunes, but can they write it? Can they combine modern metal, advanced time signatures, a classical masterpiece, and a bar scene and make it a cohesive vision?" The answer is no, and the result is an incredible 13 minutes of music. "Selkies: Endless Obsession" is a good song though. Alaska was a decent album.
I also agree with your last paragraph, and you said it much more eloquently then I attempted to. So I'm just gonna say ditto with what you wrote. I find a lot of music through the "charts" section of sputnikmusic. Pitchfork is also pretty decent, if you aren't looking for metal. Stereogum is pretty decent as well.
I managed to make it through all of "Ants in the Sky" and instrumentally it's great, but I stick with what I said above. If you think that I've misjudged a band and that I might actually like them if I hear their other stuff (meaning "rate them 7 or higher"), then great, excellent. Give me some tracks. But I've been pretty clear that I'm not going to enjoy anything with harsh vocals, so unless they DID put an axe in their vocalist's noggin, I'm wasting my time listening to it. Sorry, but I'm trying to find bands I can add to my collection. It doesn't really matter to me whether I rank BTBAM at a 0 or a 5, either way I don't plan to buy.
Sputnikmusic succeeds in proving my point - Eumeria's album garnered a 4.4 from user reviews, but it's not on "charts" because they aren't popular enough. It's a useful tool from the man in a hurry, but I think I've proven that I'm nothing if not patient. And bored.
artists:
1 Dream Theater
2 Ayreon
3 Diablo Swing Orchestra
4 Circus Maximus
5 Edenbridge
6 Muse
7 Tool
8 Vanden Plas
9 Shaman
10 Kamelot
albums:
1 The Theory of Everything by Ayreon
2 Metropolis pt 2: Scenes from a memory by Dream Theater
3 MyEarthDream by Edenbridge
4 Butcher's Ballroom by Diablo Swing Orchestra
5 The Black Halo by Kamelot
6 Ritual by Shaman
7 Christ 0 by Vanden Plas
8 Nine by Circus Maximus
9 Rebel Mind by Eumeria
10 Operation: Mindcrime by Queensryche
songs:
1 A Change of Seasons by Dream Theater
2 Perfection? by Guilt Machine
3 Free of Doubt/Faded Crystals by Pathosray
4 Place of Higher Power by Edenbridge
5 Born to Be by Shaman
6 Sin by Circus Maximus
7 Sound of the Apocalypse by Black Bonzo
8 Silently by Vanden Plas
9 Memento Mori by Kamelot
10 March of the Varangian Guard by Turisas
OP:
A little while ago (June, maybe?) it occurred to me that my iPod/android are full of crappy music I don't like, and I really mostly end up listening to the same 20 bands 95% of the time. Just about every band I've heard is because it was on the radio, or a friend recommended it. My exposure to new music sucked.
Also, as hipsters discovered long ago, it's no fun to talk up a band if everyone's already heard them to death.
So, armed with naught but steely determination and a startling amount of free time, I set out to rectify this injustice in the most methodical, unfeeling, robotic way possible.
For science.
Step 1) I figured I'd start with progressive rock and metal, since that's traditionally been "my jam", as the kids are saying these days. God willing, one day I'll be able to move on to other genres, but for now, it's prog.
Step 2) I went through Wikipedia's entry on progressive rock and copied down the name of every artist listed under progressive metal, symphonic rock, neo-progressive rock, new prog, space rock, and Italian progressive rock. This gave me about ~400 artists to check out. A good start.
Step 3) I put them all into an excel spreadsheet (because what good is anything if it's not in a spreadsheet?) and added columns for the overall quality, the heaviness, and the progressiveness of the music, plus a column for notes, and for the songs I listened to by that artist. Also, some other columns that are somewhat more half-assedly filled out and should probably be ignored.
Step 4) I sat down and plugged every single band into Pandora (yes, Pandora, I don't care if Spotify is better, they wanted my Facebook account info before I could use it and SCREW FACEBOOK). I evaluated them on the above mentioned criteria, and added any new bands that came up to the spreadsheet. If the band was good, I'd listen for a while and sometimes add quite a few bands. If it sucked, I'd switch to the next station pretty quickly, because even scientific integrity isn't worth listening to "Between the Buried and Me" for longer than 10 seconds.
Step 5) For those bands who weren't known to Pandora (marked with a question mark), I used the miracle of the internet and found them on YouTube. Sometimes I'd check the comments section to find similar artists as an equivalent to Pandora, but I'm sort of lazy so usually not.
Of course, remember that all music preferences are subjective. But I do have numbers I made up to back my preferences up...so...I mean, I don't want to say my preferences are BETTER than yours but...well...but yeah....
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
going through there's a lot of bands i really like that you've just gone "lol harsh vocals" to which saddens me; stuff like agalloch, coroner, death, enslaved. i mean i understand why people dislike harsh vocals, it took me a while to get into them, but i really feel like people are missing out on a lot by just dismissing it (and i am very anal when it comes to vocals).
also how dare you give camel a 2. that is just a crime.
Well it started as prog rock (as defined by whatever someone put under that heading in wikipedia, so...) and then whatever was dubbed similar to those bands by Pandora. So there aren't a lot of limits. Although I think I may have included some speed metal, symphonic metal, etc too in the initial list. I'm not totally positive what all I started with, I just remember it was around 400 bands.
"harsh vocals" (aka screaming and growling etc) are not my thing. I mean, I'm sure bagpipe music can be every bit as musically profound as prog rock can, but it's just not my thing. If I rated a band low it doesn't necessarily mean they're a bad band, it means they're a band i don't like, and that's it.
If I had to say WHY it's not my thing, I think it's for 2 reasons -
1) because most of the bands who I immediately hated and involved harsh vocals started out of the gate with harsh vocals and a wall of guitar sound, and I like my songs to be slow-building. I have no problem with the harsh vocals in, for example, "Ticks and Leeches" by Tool, because they're built up to. They have some context, and by that point in the song they mean something. Dialing the song to 11 immediately and staying there, to me, is like a Michael Bay action movie. It's trying too hard to get your attention by being flashy while failing at giving some contrast.
2) Because I find it pretentious, for the same reason I find most "emo" bands pretentious. It's hard to not over-emote when you're screaming into the microphone as loudly as possible. Nothing sounds stupider to me than someone shouting at full volume about some stupid problem in their personal lives. Just get over it, man, everyone else does.
And, besides that, and before you argue with me on those points, the most important reason is because I just don't like them. In some contexts they can be ok, but generally speaking I just don't enjoy listening to them, for the same reason you don't like listening to whatever you don't like listening to.
It's worth noting (possibly in the case of Camel) that if I don't like a song I generally don't listen to more, so maybe that was just a bad song and I'd like others. But after re-listening to that song, I more or less agree with my previous self. The song was repetitive and had no vocals and never hit a satisfying high point for me. I like songs that go places, and that one felt like treading water. But if I've unfairly judged a band based on a single bad song, and that song isn't representative of the rest of their music, feel free to let me know.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
It's listed in that column. Looks like "The Snow Goose".
I accidentally listened to "Flight of the Snow Goose" which is apparently a different song, when looking for "The Snow Goose" and I'd have to say that was worse. "The Snow Goose" probably deserves more than 2, maybe more like 3.5, but it's still safely well out of reach of anything I'd consider purchasing (usually anything below 6.5 is out of the running).
By the looks of the wikipedia article, Camel's got a lot of different lineups, though, so it's very possible that they're like King Crimson where I love some albums and loathe others. With 800 bands to go through, though, I usually quit listening if it's not doing anything for me.
If you've got any songs that are especially good by Camel, though, I'm more than willing to give a band a second shot if it's been unfairly rated by a single bad song or album.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Freefall was solid, a bit upbeat sounding for me, but at least a 5.5. I'm digging the multi-part song, though. Fine, I've upgraded them to a 5...I might get the multi-part song as a single or something.
Obviously the system isn't foolproof, it's hard to judge a band based on 1-2 songs, especially if they're as varied and prolific as some prog bands are. But what're you gonna do, it's 800 bloody bands. I can't always be as thorough as I'd like.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
For Lists, Click Here
EDH:
GW: Selvala, Let us help YOU.
UB: Mirko Vosk, when outmatched cheat
BW: Vish Kal, The Arbiter of Reanimation
UG: Prime Speaker Zegana, the science of sorcery
RB: Malfegor, Traitor's Haven
UW: Daxos, Control-Fort-Tron
BG: Pharika, Goddess of Stax
RW: Gisela, Boros Control
RG: Ruric Thar, a Primal Surge deck
RU: Niv-Mizzet the Firemind, Spellslinger?!?!
B:(Pauper) Mikaeus the Unhallowed
R: Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient: The Power of Engineering
see above comments on "harsh vocals".
I'm not trying to be objective or anything. I, personally, dislike the band but I'm not saying they're bad (NOTE: I probably actually say many bands are bad in the notes, but those are informal). Frankly I'd be stunned if there was anyone who wasn't offended by at least a few of my "reviews".
In my defense, at least I'm trying all of these bands before hating them. So I'm not hating through ignorance. I know plenty of people who wouldn't even bother listening. I do my best to go in with an open mind.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
For Lists, Click Here
EDH:
GW: Selvala, Let us help YOU.
UB: Mirko Vosk, when outmatched cheat
BW: Vish Kal, The Arbiter of Reanimation
UG: Prime Speaker Zegana, the science of sorcery
RB: Malfegor, Traitor's Haven
UW: Daxos, Control-Fort-Tron
BG: Pharika, Goddess of Stax
RW: Gisela, Boros Control
RG: Ruric Thar, a Primal Surge deck
RU: Niv-Mizzet the Firemind, Spellslinger?!?!
B:(Pauper) Mikaeus the Unhallowed
R: Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient: The Power of Engineering
- Blotted Science. Instrumental prog-metal madness. Some of the most cerebral compositions you'll ever hear, but it never comes across as being esoteric. Pretty damn heavy, too, for an instrumental group.
- Radiance. This is the side project of one of the guitarists from Necrophagist. It's similarly heavy but in a different way, and has electronic flourishes. The vocals, however, are completely different and probably more up your alley. They're definitely more power-metallish, courtesy of Mats Leven. Their entire album "The Burning Sun" is available for streaming for free, courtesy of the band.
- There was a prog-metal band from Edmonton called Portal (not to be mistaken for probably 5 other bands called Portal) that were like a mix between Tool and Porcupine Tree, but with fairly overt political tones to some of their songs. Their album "Blood Red Tape" was excellent. I suggest trying to find some material off it. My recommendations would be the songs "Your Kettle," "The Kingdom," "Six Degrees" and "We Kuffar."
- Disillusion. Yes, this band has harsh vocals, but hear me out. Their album "Back To Times Of Splendor" is an incredible emotional journey, and remains to this day my favorite album EVER. Alas, their second album, Gloria, is... while I can't say it's bad, it's so incredibly different that I just can't listen to it. But seriously, every song off Back To Times Of Splendor is incredible. They're unique in almost all the bands that I've listened to in that their lyrics are very poetic, but never melodramatic or trite. For good songs without harsh vocals, listen to the songs "Fall" and "A Day By The Lake."
Some other notes:
- Why is the only In Flames song you listened to an instrumental? They're not an instrumental band. For an idea of what they sound like regularly, listen to "Ordinary Story," "Square Nothing," and "Colony." Be warned, harsh vocals. Also, don't listen to anything they released post-"Soundtrack To Your Escape," it pretty much uniformly sucks. Before that is uniformly awesome. Their best instrumental is "Man Made God," and has been a favorite of mine for years.
- Adagio has had multiple vocalists over the years, but the guy they had on their first 2 albums "Sanctus Ignis" and "Underworld," David Readman, simply destroyed. He's one of my favorite clean singers. Listen to the songs "Next Profundis," "Introitus/Solvet Saeclum in Favilla," and "Underworld."
- Your review of Opeth is kind of hilarious for someone with perspective on the matter. I can understand that you don't know anything about them, but know this, they are a DEATH METAL band. "In My Time of Need" is from the album "Damnation," which is a one-off in their discography, sort of an experiment in mellow prog. For a better idea of what they sound like, listen to the songs "The Moor," "Ghost of Perdition" and "The Drapery Falls." Again, harsh vocals, although interspersed with cleans.
- The Pain of Salvation song you listened to is from the album "BE," which did have some strange instrumentation. For a more accurate representation of what they sound like, listen to the songs "In the Flesh," "The Perfect Element" and "Beyond the Pale." Daniel Gildenlow is one of the most talented singers on the planet.
- You definitely hit the mellower side of Porcupine Tree. For songs with a harder edge, listen to "Blackest Eyes" (which is both whimsical and dark), "Arriving Somewhere But Not Here" and "Fear of a Blank Planet."
- I used to be in a metal band with one of the guitarists from Secret and Whisper. He played bass, I played guitar. Yes, this note is as pointless as you've guessed.
- Vanden Plas is certainly liberal with their spiritual metaphors, but I don't believe they're a "christian band." More likely a band of christians. One of their albums "Christ.0," is in fact about the Count of Monte Cristo, not Christ (despite the obvious presence of the H in the album title).
- I know you don't like Wintersun's vocals, if nothing else, listen to the song "Winter Madness," for it contains one of the most awesome shredfest guitar solos ever recorded. The song "Death and the Healing" is also well worth checking out a) no harsh vocals, only clean, and b) some pretty creative soloing.
EDIT: If you ever wanted to hear truly great prog metal get ruined by truly terrible vocals, listen to the song "From Space To Time" by Linear Sphere. Don't listen to anything else. The first few minutes (it's a 23 minute song) are excellent, full of some great solos and riffs (one of the guitarists now plays in Haken). Then the vocals come in. You will die a little inside, but only while you piss yourself laughing. It's that horrendous, but it must be heard.
GGG [Primer] Omnath, Big Green Beatstick Machine GGG
Thanks for all the feedback!
Swear I listened to blotted science before when i was youtubing. Just didn't add it to the list I guess. Anyway it's been added. Yes, they're quite good for an instrumental band. I really need vocals to get really excited about a band though. 6.5.
Radiance is solid, I'm not totally sold on the vocals but they're not bad. Instrumentals are fun. Call it another 6.5.
Portal reminds me of a perfect circle, and for whatever reason i've never liked APC nearly as much as tool. So they're ok but not great. 5.5.
Disillusion doesn't sound terribly "progressive" to me, but their guitar sound is fun enough and the vocals on "Fall" are pretty solid. Their sound doesn't really stick with me, though, and I had to keep relistening to it to get a bead on a score, so it's a 6.
Weird about in flames since I've had some of their stuff on my ipod since forever (a friend recommended it and it's been sitting there largely unlistened to since I realized it had harsh vocals). Anyway yeah, solid instrumentals but I'm still not into the vocals. 5.
The Adagio tracks were worth a listen but it doesn't really change my score one way or another. 6.5 feels comfortable.
I swear I've heard Opeth elsewhere too, although it's possible I'm confusing them with Otep because I do that all the damn time. The guitars on "The Moor" are great but then the vocals come in and...yeah, not my cup of tea. 4.
Pain of Salvation is definitely interesting, but it's not memorable or exciting enough for me to give more than a 6.5. Generally, if I give a band a 7 or better it's because I want to buy their music, and I don't see myself really feeling like listening to them very often.
I do like those porcupine tree songs. oddly catchy.
Don't get me wrong about Vanden Plas - Christ 0 is one of the best albums I've heard on this little project (it's probably between that and Eumeria's "Rebel Mind"). But after excitedly buying "The Seraphic Clockwork" I found myself somewhat offput by the frequency of the religious elements, and none of the songs really interested me as much as Christ 0. So...I dunno. If Christ 0 was a good story with religious symbolism, then clockwork felt more like a sermon. I might check out their earlier stuff, but with a little less enthusiasm than I had coming off Christ 0.
I listened to the whole wintersun song. Indeed, the guitar is sick. My relationship with harsh vocals is increasingly resembling my relationship with spiciness on food - I can tolerate it more and more, but I still don't get any enjoyment out of it.
Couldn't find "from space to time" but I found some other songs from linear sphere. After being slightly confused after listening to a newer song, I realized they must have gotten a new vocalist after their first album. Because yeah, their original vocalist sounds awful.
Damn, that was a lot of homework. Thanks for killing an hour of my time!
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Based on some of what you like there, you might like the prog metal band Dreamscape. I don't remember seeing them on your list. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vm8Qampiim4 (If you've got 21 minutes to kill, otherwise you can look for a shorter song). Probably a step down from something like Dream Theater, but decent nonetheless.
I also love how you actually have Tarot there. I'm quite a fan of theirs, but I can definitely understand (at least on their most recent album) that the singing is pretty meh at times (their secondary singer does more vocals on that album than any other, and I don't care for his voice). Crows Fly Black was better, in my opinion (Ashes To The Stars: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VaGGWGo7zqA)
...Not that I'm trying to promote them in any way...
Hopefully you find a good range of music you like, either way. I did something like this recently, too, except it was far less scientific (As a scientist, I should be ashamed).
Every time I think of something else to suggest, I see that it's already on the list. (Usually with good comments, at least)
This except replace Amon Amarth with Converge.
Also, this is a pretty negative attitude.
Thanks for the great feedback!
I'm shocked that I missed Dreamscape up until now, I listened to the full 20-minute song and it was one of the best I've heard on this project. (longer = better, of course...my all-time favorite song is Dream Theater's "A Change of Seasons" which is a few minutes longer than "The End of Light") I'm giving them an 8, and I'd be surprised if I didn't buy at least a couple of their albums.
Which reminds me...if anyone has a good source to find more bands (i.e. I found Eumeria on PerfectProg and they're one of my new favs) those would be much appreciated.
I did like that Tarot song a lot more, so I've upgraded them to a 7.
I'm working through (albeit more slowly as I have less free time these days) the last few ?s in the spreadsheet, and once I'm satisfied that I've delved deeply enough I'll be going a lot more in-depth on the 7+ ones and comparing them to each other. It's kind of tricky keeping a clear palate while doing this...sometimes I'll have 5 boring ambient "music" "artists" in a row, and then anything else will sound awesome. Or I'll have a ton of fun power metal, and my standards will get unreasonably high because I feel like I'm giving too many high ratings. So hopefully once I've narrowed the list down a bit and I can really focus on the artists and compare them, I'll put together a top picks list.
It's also a thinly veiled joke. Music preferences are 100% subjective. Anyone saying otherwise is selling something.
I'm not really claiming to even have good taste per se...I like what I like, though, and if I don't like a band, even if many people say it's a good band, I'm not going to fake it to fit in. Same for the inverse.
If I rate your favorite band low, I'm not saying your band sucks, despite jokes to the contrary. I'm not a music reviewer and I'm not trying to be objective. I'm saying that I, personally, didn't enjoy listening to them. That's just a fact. If my musical preferences align with yours, then maybe the list will give you some good bands to look up. If they don't, then maybe it won't be very useful. In that case, I'd encourage you to make your own.
That said, I've got a list of 850 bands and you disagreed with one? (which, in fairness, I didn't exactly bloodily massacre with a 4) wow, shocker. I don't even think we can relate as human beings if we can't agree on every single band in an 850-long list.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Shoulda taken you a lot longer than an hour to listen to the homework I gave you.
My initial impression is honestly this: though you ARE a fan of the prog "sound" you're not as much of a fan of prog songwriting style. All true prog fans know that patience = payoff, and I'm betting you were hitting your fast forward button at frequent intervals.
GGG [Primer] Omnath, Big Green Beatstick Machine GGG
You know what's funny, I actually reread that post and thought "that definitely took longer than an hour...but eh, whatever, I wasn't really timing it and he'll get the gist of the stupid little offhand comment without me busting out a stopwatch." I think it probably took about twice that long, but in fairness I was doing other stuff some of the time while listening and it wasn't all contiguous time.
I definitely don't have infinite patience for songs that I don't like, so it's definitely true that I'll skip songs I don't think are going to be good - rarely do I skip ahead unless I just want to double check that it's going to suck before skipping the rest of it. But I've got no problem whatsoever listening to long songs if they're good - I listened to all 20+ minutes of that dreamscape song without doing much else and without even considering skipping. I love a good long buildup song, like "Ocatvarium", "A Change of Seasons" and "Home" by DT, or "Ticks and Leeches" and "10,000 days" by Tool.
Of course, I'm not ALWAYS in a prog mood. Some days I just want the instant gratification of bad religion or flogging molly. But when I want prog, I like it to start with a subtle instrumental section and build until it blows my ****ing mind at the end.
(speaking of instrumental intros that kick ass, this sucker is another major gem I've found that isn't very well-known. As long as we're giving each other homework )
I guess the gist of what I'm trying to say is "yeah, well....nuh-huh..."
EDIT: actually now that I think about it, I did listen to the whole radiance album. So I was probably way off with 1 hour
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Another song I think you might enjoy is "Mouth of Madness" by Circus Maximus. It's a sort of slow burner, and despite being not particularly heavy, is noticeably less cheesy than a lot of their faster paced material (and there's no doubt, they do bring the cheese quite often). Based on the examples you provided for long songs (all of which I agree are excellent, by the way), I think it'll be right up your alley.
On the other end of the prog metal epic scale, you'd probably also really like "The Odyssey" by Syphony X.
Also, one band that I CANNOT BELIEVE I forgot to mention is Indukti. They are *mostly* instrumental and don't have an official vocalist, but the singer from Riverside provided vocals on a few of the songs on their first album, S.U.S.A.R., which is excellent. Start with "Freder," "Cold Inside...," "No. 11812" and "No. 11811."
The Karnivool song you listened to was from Themata. Listen to some stuff from their second album, "Sound Awake." It's a better album, IMO, and certainly more progressive.
Interesting side note about Scar Symmetry, for their first 3 albums they actually only had one vocalist who provided all the clean and harsh vocals. When he left the band, they had to replace him with 2 vocalists (neither of which I prefer over the original guy).
GGG [Primer] Omnath, Big Green Beatstick Machine GGG
Their list of Prog Metal musicians looks to be around 800 musicians, most of whom aren't on my list, and they've got 21 other subgenres of prog in addition to prog metal.
In other words:
Soooooo....
So so so....
I'm thinking I'm going to have to get a little smarter with my methods and do this little project in batches. So far I've only bought like 7 albums that I was particularly excited about, and the other ones I rated highly are sort of stuck in stasis pending phase 2. So rather than wait until I've listened to the god-knows-how-many prog artists in the progArchives list, I'm going to go ahead and whittle down my list of 7s until I've got a few dozen or so that I really like and then buy some music. Then I'll sit down and start going through the progArchives list. At some point, presumably, the heat death of the universe will occur, but I'm too busy to worry about that until it happens.
Mouth of Madness is very solid. Although you don't have to sell me on circus maximus, they're already comfortably in planning-to-buy range with an 8. Cheese and all
I've heard The Odyssey before and didn't really like it that much, although I might have been comparing it unfairly to "A Change of Seasons". On my second listen, I found more to like, although I'm still not a fan of the first (instrumental) movement...it reminds me a lot of the intro to DT's "six degrees of inner turbulence", which I always thought felt sort of padded and unfocused compared to their other, somewhat shorter Seasons and Octavarium. Maybe it's just a little too major-key, idk. After the first movement it's a lot stronger, although it must be said that, as an English major, I always hated the character of Odysseus. My favorite Symphony X album is probably V, though. Anyway they're also at a solid 8.
Indukti had some very solid instrumentals, weirdly I think I liked it more without the vocals as they didn't seem to fit all that well into the instrumentals in "Cold Inside..." (the vocals in Freder were fine though). Call it a narrow 7.
I've bumped up Karnivool to a 7 after listening to a few tracks from Sound Awake, although most of their tracks were a bit on the soft side for me. Gotta say, I hate their name though.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
V is my favorite album from a songwriting perspective. The reason it loses points personally is because the production is not particularly good, even compared to their other stuff. It's probably sonically their worst sounding album besides their first 2. (And, let's be honest, those don't really exist, kind of like "When Dreams And Day Unite," or every Pantera album prior to Cowboys From Hell. TRUE Symphony X really begins on The Divine Wings of Tragedy. ;)) Granted, Michael Romeo has never had a particularly great overdriven rhythm tone, but it sounds especially bad on that album. On the plus side, the cleans do sound great, when they do show up, such as Communion and the Oracle (which actually happens to be my favorite SX song).
I'm really surprised you didn't know about Prog Archives. I've been using that site since about 2006.
GGG [Primer] Omnath, Big Green Beatstick Machine GGG
Only looked at 1 at first. More what I have a problem with, is that you're listening to one song and grading a band on that, and most time it's not the best work. I'm assuming you are just clicking the first link on youtube and saying that you listened to a band. You taking art out of context and judging it on its merits. "Female Vocals" under converge. "Popcrap" under Battles. "Retro metal" for cave-in. None of that fits outside of the context of a single song. Take other more famous bands, and listen to their most popular work, very rarely do you get a complete sense of what they do. I understand you have a large list, but you should probably shorten the list to the more critically acclaimed stuff and broaden the amount you listen to of each band. Because you set out to get a sense of what's out there, and you still have no idea what any of these newly discovered bands actually do.
Also calling Protest The Hero "hard to listen to" is laughable. As is saying Between the buried and me is god awful, (giving them a 4 for progisiveness is also outrageously out of touch with the truth). You should try not to listen to the worst track on the album for both of those bands.
Is the "Giraffe" on your list "Giraffes? Giraffes!"?
Hey, I've got "When Dream and Day Unite". Although it doesn't appear to be on iTunes. So maybe it doesn't exist and I'm living a lie.
Communion and the Oracle is rock solid, for sure.
I've been to prog archives before (i copied their current top 50 into my spreadsheet at some point) but I didn't notice the huge lists they had under each genre. I'd really just looked up specific artists and reviews and stuff. Seeing 800 more prog metal bands...yikes. Sort of a mind-blower.
There's a simple matter of practicality here. My list's already up to 850, and by the time I'm done with progArchives, if that ever happens, it'll probably be in the thousands, even if I skip a bunch of the subgenres i'm less interested in. Sure, given infinite time I'd listen to a long sampling from every artist, so I could be absolutely certain that I hated everything about "Between the Buried and Me" instead of just 99% sure, but life is too short.
If a band catches my ear, I'm more than happy to listen to more of their stuff and get a broader picture of their music. But if song #1 sucks, I'm not going to bother, not with so many other artists without a strike against them. Does that mean there might be casualties? Sure, if I'd never heard of Dream Theater and the first song I heard was "The Silent Man" I'd probably give them a 2 and a snarky comment and move on. But on some level, you've got to play the odds - either you risk that you just heard a bad song from a good artist, or you risk that you never got around to other artists who might have been better because you wasted all your time on someone who just sucked.
Imo, the better gamble is quantity > depth. For instance, Eumeria, who are one of my favorite bands to come out of this mess, aren't even popular enough to have a wikipedia page.
Come on, this is metal, a genre of music who's fans are CONSTANTLY *****ing is overlooked by the mainstream (I defy you to find a metal song on youtube that doesn't have "ARG WHY IS KATY PERRY POPULAR WHEN NO ONE HAS HEARD OF THESE GENIUSES!!!!!" in the comments). Are you really going to tell me to stick to the more popular stuff?
I said it in the first post - if you've got a band you think was misrepresented by the song I heard, then feel free to tell me. I'm more than willing to give them a second chance if you think I'll like their other stuff more. For example, I just listened to another "Between the Buried and Me" song (Astral Body) and was forced to admit that the guitar was quite solid, until their vocalist opened his mouth, and the wretching noises I couldn't stop making still sounded better than his vocals.
The "progressiveness" column is sort of stupid, and I've considered getting rid of it many times...it's really just to separate the standard rock (<5) from the power metal (5-6) from the true progressive (>6). I usually don't put a lot of thought into it, especially not on bands I never intend to listen to again. If I rank the band lower than a 5 for the overall rating, I pretty much just roll a dice for the progressiveness and move on, because it doesn't matter.
"Giraffe" is "Giraffe", it was copied directly from wikipedia. I wasn't able to find them anywhere on pandora or youtube though. Odds are it was some idiot putting his garage band on the wikipedia list...it wouldn't be the first.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
The one song of theirs that I think you might get along with quite well is "Selkies: The Endless Obsession." The solo section towards the end still gives me goosebumps. It has one of the most masterfully executed key changes I've ever heard. Not the kind of the thing that usually turns heads, but in that one section of this song, it's actually quite beautiful. Give it a spin.
Also, while there's no standout track, as an album, "Colors" is a far more consistently enjoyable listen than any of their other material IMO, although it's certainly meant to be taken in as a whole. Granted, Form Born (B) is one of the songs from that album, so take it with a grain of salt.
If you want a taste of how capable they are at building a mood, they have some pretty decent instrumental interludes. Listen to "Medicine Wheel" and "Viridian."
Hey, I like that song!
Actually, truth be told, it's my acoustic go-to song. As a guitarist, one of the more annoying things I have to endure is "You play guitar?! Play something nice!" I can't exactly jump into "Erotomania" in that sort of situation, so "The Silent Man" is kind of my equivalent of "Wonderwall." It's easy to play and sing to, it's got lyrics that seem deep to someone who's never heard it before, and it's got plenty of "sparklyprettyness."
I'll be honest, I disagree with your approach, because you're not taking advantage of something that the internet provides in spades: aggregated information. There's a reason sites like Rotten Tomatoes exist, and while you may not always agree with profesionnal film critics regarding a particular film, the "tomatometer" provides at very least a reasonable barometer of a film's quality. So it is with album reviews. I've found pretty much every group that I listen to this way, and the only time I've ever purchased CDs that disappointed me were when I was going into it blind. The information is out there, and you do have to make use of it, but you're going about it in an extremely inefficient manner.
GGG [Primer] Omnath, Big Green Beatstick Machine GGG
On BTBAM, Colors is their best album. Foam Born (B) was the weakest track on the album in my opinion. I was thinking of telling him to check out "Ants of the Sky" because it is probably the best prog metal song ever written. Pachebel's Canon in D Major, a Folk Bar scene, the incredible "Selkies" esque sweeps, and the implied nature of the song saying "Yes, there are basement dweller kids that can shred out these tunes, but can they write it? Can they combine modern metal, advanced time signatures, a classical masterpiece, and a bar scene and make it a cohesive vision?" The answer is no, and the result is an incredible 13 minutes of music. "Selkies: Endless Obsession" is a good song though. Alaska was a decent album.
I also agree with your last paragraph, and you said it much more eloquently then I attempted to. So I'm just gonna say ditto with what you wrote. I find a lot of music through the "charts" section of sputnikmusic. Pitchfork is also pretty decent, if you aren't looking for metal. Stereogum is pretty decent as well.
You've been very constructive and interesting to talk to, but I'm not going to get into BTBAM unless they put an axe in their vocalist's head. The beginning of Selkies was fine, but once he starts growling, I'm out. If you want me to say they're talented musicians (except the vocalist) then I can agree with that, but I don't enjoy listening to them. I'd rather spend my time listening to bands I might actually be interested in.
Haha, sorry, not going to agree with you on Silent man. It sounded even worse live, especially after Endless Sacrifice (which was probably the best song they played when I saw them, despite me shouting "Change of Seasons!" at the top of my lungs between every song. I can dream.) As far as quiet songs off "Awake" (or really off any of their discography), I'll take "Space-Dye Vest" any day.
I would totally agree with you if I was watching movies, but I disagree on music, for a few reasons.
First, because I think music involves a lot more personal preference than movies do. There are tons of highly-rated albums that I'm going to hate. For instance, I'm never going to buy any music infested with harsh vocals, but reviewers are reviewing it for the people who like that sort of thing. Out of all the music on earth, probably 80%+ of it is excluded from being on my favorites list just from the genre...I don't like country, I don't like pop, I don't like spiritual, I don't like hip-hop, I don't like rap...etc. With movies, I'm capable of loving just about anything if it's good enough.
Second, because I'm really looking for "hidden gems", as it were. It's always just a bit sweeter to find a band that I love when no one else knows about them. I believe I said something to that effect in the OP. Most "top album" lists are either some reviewer's list, limited by what they personally heard, or they require a certain # of reviews, or whatever. For instance, a band I keep mentioning, Eumeria - have you seen them on any lists you check? They've gotten solid reviews but they're relatively unknown.
Thirdly, I don't want to read other peoples' reviews lest they alter my opinions. I think a lot of peoples' opinions are altered by what they've heard about the band, and it all sort of sets off a chain of dominoes that make some bands much more popular than others, even if their talent is basically equal. And I'd like to avoid all of that as much as possible. Everyone starts from a blank slate in my "reviews".
Fourthly, I can usually determine pretty quickly if I can skip the song for the bands that really suck (or just really don't appeal to me). So cropping off the "worst" 50% or so of bands doesn't save THAT much time, since most of my time is spent on the good bands. And cutting off more would increase the odds of missing someone good (or at least, that I personally can enjoy).
If I was really wanting to get fast results, I'd agree with you. But I'd rather dedicate the time, and put together a huge library. I think the risks I'm taking are the ones that give me the best odds of finding something exciting and unknown.
EDIT: oh yeah, and fifthly, because a project this stupid is sort of fun. Sometimes I like to walk home from work even though I could take the bus. Sometimes it's about the journey.
Double edit: oh, but not "Journey". Not a fan.
I managed to make it through all of "Ants in the Sky" and instrumentally it's great, but I stick with what I said above. If you think that I've misjudged a band and that I might actually like them if I hear their other stuff (meaning "rate them 7 or higher"), then great, excellent. Give me some tracks. But I've been pretty clear that I'm not going to enjoy anything with harsh vocals, so unless they DID put an axe in their vocalist's noggin, I'm wasting my time listening to it. Sorry, but I'm trying to find bands I can add to my collection. It doesn't really matter to me whether I rank BTBAM at a 0 or a 5, either way I don't plan to buy.
Sputnikmusic succeeds in proving my point - Eumeria's album garnered a 4.4 from user reviews, but it's not on "charts" because they aren't popular enough. It's a useful tool from the man in a hurry, but I think I've proven that I'm nothing if not patient. And bored.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6