Doom isn't your typical stock villain that you'll find in a MCU movie. He is very complex and has incredible depth to him.
...His name is Doctor Victor von Doom.
*****ty excuse. Just because he has a (deliberately) cheesy name doesn't mean he isn't a great villain. I absolutely loathe the F4, but I still read them from time to time if there's a good Doom arc in them.
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I have no idea why they made Johnny black, nor do I particularly care about it. I also don't care about source material or w.e. Besides, it's one thing to take a bunch of characters whose ethnicity and culture doesn't figure into their identity and change it, and quite another to take James Bond and suddenly make him Chinese. Or black. Or from America. Or w.e. that's not from Britain. Or make him take his martini... stirred, not shaken.
It's just... unnecessary. Pointless. Serves nothing. Doesn't do anything to change the story for the better.
(Hah, it'll be funny if I have to eat my words when they make this into an actual dynamic in the film in the manner a couple of you have suggested).
What would be wrong with a black James Bond? Idris Elba is one of the most fan-desired castings in that role. Bond's race doesn't matter, only his nationality.
I honestly don't understand the outrage here. If they've cast a good Johnny Storm (which I believe they have) and a good Susan Storm (meh), who cares. You're hating on change just because it's change, but if the casting was about getting the right people for the roles (and making it work, plot wise, if they're obviously no genetically related), what is the big deal? People act like they make these changes for the sake of change.
And if you don't care about the source material, why do you care that they changed it?
A new fantastic 4 movie... another god damn origin story...
F4 will become the new spiderman: they are going to keep rebooting the origin story to keep their movie rights and bastardize the franchise.
A new fantastic 4 movie... another god damn origin story...
F4 will become the new spiderman: they are going to keep rebooting the origin story to keep their movie rights and bastardize the franchise.
Nah. Like Spider-man, after the failure of the reboot Fox will call it quits and give back the rights, since all it has done is cost them money, or at least make them very little money.
Marvel will then integrate them into the MCU. Hopefully kind of like how they handled Hank Pym in Ant-Man or how they're handling Spider-Man in Civil War.
*****ty excuse. Just because he has a (deliberately) cheesy name doesn't mean he isn't a great villain. I absolutely loathe the F4, but I still read them from time to time if there's a good Doom arc in them.
Okay: his name is Doctor Victor von Doom, and he refers to himself in the third person.
What would be wrong with a black James Bond? Idris Elba is one of the most fan-desired castings in that role. Bond's race doesn't matter, only his nationality.
Bond is in a unique position because there's already a long precedent of him changing his face. He doesn't have one iconic "look" (not above the black tie, anyway). With most superheroes, though, the look is very important. Forget about changing race -- just imagine casting Clark Kent as a blond. You will notice in this film that they did not cast Michael B. Jordan as Reed Richards; they cast him as the guy whose iconic look is "face obscured by fire".
Nah. Like Spider-man, after the failure of the reboot Fox will call it quits and give back the rights, since all it has done is cost them money, or at least make them very little money.
Marvel will then integrate them into the MCU. Hopefully kind of like how they handled Hank Pym in Ant-Man or how they're handling Spider-Man in Civil War.
That's optimistic of you, I think. Remember that Fox is not Sony. And they've done pretty well for themselves hanging onto the X-Men rights.
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That's optimistic of you, I think. Remember that Fox is not Sony. And they've done pretty well for themselves hanging onto the X-Men rights.
Oh, I think I mispoke. I meant give up the rights to Fantastic Four, specifically. That's what they did with Daredevil, after all. They'll hold on to X-Men, but if this latest movie is a flop too I think they'll give up the FF.
*****ty excuse. Just because he has a (deliberately) cheesy name doesn't mean he isn't a great villain. I absolutely loathe the F4, but I still read them from time to time if there's a good Doom arc in them.
Okay: his name is Doctor Victor von Doom, and he refers to himself in the third person.
And Lex Luthor stole 40 cakes, that's as many as four tens, and that's terrible.
Yes, he's a huge ham, but being a huge ham doesn't prevent him from being a really good character in the Marvel Universe.
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Doctor Doom is an absolute classic. The way things are going, I doubt they'll ever do the character justice on the silver screen. The last set of Fantastic Four movies were rather awful, though I thought they did Ben Grimm surprisingly well. I don't expect this one to be any better; it may well be worse.
What they should do someday is the Triumph and Torment storyline, but we know that's not going to happen.
Oh, I think I mispoke. I meant give up the rights to Fantastic Four, specifically. That's what they did with Daredevil, after all. They'll hold on to X-Men, but if this latest movie is a flop too I think they'll give up the FF.
Oh, I forgot about Daredevil. That does make it more likely, I think.
And Lex Luthor stole 40 cakes, that's as many as four tens, and that's terrible.
Yes, he's a huge ham, but being a huge ham doesn't prevent him from being a really good character in the Marvel Universe.
I think huge hams are a lot of fun. I think Doom is a lot of fun. But I also think expecting audiences to buy into him as a serious and nuanced character is a big ask. I think the best you can expect of a MCU Doctor Doom is somewhere pn the Jeff Bridges/Hugo Weaving/Ben Kingsley level of hamtastically entertaining. (Still better than every other villain except Loki. Really, villainy has been a consistent weakness of the MCU.)
...and then, of course, he gets gloriously pwned by Squirrel Girl.
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Final trailer released a few days ago. Needless to say, this movie looks really bad. Poor CGI, bad dialogue ("Say yes." Seriously?), and a complete bastardization of one of Marvel's best characters in Doom.
As someone who has closely watched this movie's development ever since they decided to cast Human Torch as black (but keep Invisible Woman white), at this point the race controversy is least of Fox's worries. Butchering Doom and half-assing the writing and CGI are what will likely make Fantastic Four be a major flop. Which is good; the sooner this thing flops the faster Marvel can get the rights to the Fantastic Four back.
I agree that a movie can never really portray our favourite characters in the way that we would hope, but I am interested to see what they do with it. Out of all the recent Marvel titles (the seemingly endless nowadays...) this one, for me being a F4 and a colossal Dr.Doom fanm grabbed my attention more than a possible civil war or deadpool flick IMO.
However, I wasn't a huge on his name being credited as Domansky, but they have since changed it to Victor von Doom.
Also the premise seems to be based on the Ultimate Universe Fantastic Four, which had Doom becoming fully metal biologically (as they did in the first two movies as well)
Yes, he's a huge ham, but being a huge ham doesn't prevent him from being a really good character in the Marvel Universe.
I think huge hams are a lot of fun. I think Doom is a lot of fun. But I also think expecting audiences to buy into him as a serious and nuanced character is a big ask. I think the best you can expect of a MCU Doctor Doom is somewhere pn the Jeff Bridges/Hugo Weaving/Ben Kingsley level of hamtastically entertaining. (Still better than every other villain except Loki. Really, villainy has been a consistent weakness of the MCU.)
...and then, of course, he gets gloriously pwned by Squirrel Girl.
He also takes on celestials, singlehanded, and survives...and 'shanghais' Scarlett Witches powers...and kills the Master of Doom (in the Guardians movie the dude who is seemingly a scout or something to Thanos who gets killed by Ronan). Point being Doom has done a ton of things that outway the campy, "good guy has to win clause" at the end of every major comic book story. Never really a fan of the New Avengers, it seems like a C-lister's dream team with less talent (on the creative team) than the flagship series.
Ps. Doom also plays a big role in Dark Reign and the subsequent "Doom"war arc, making a vibranium suit, much like Ultron in the second avengers movie.
Okay, so apparently the movie is trash, to no one's surprise. Everyone in the film is starting to play the blame game. It's disappointing that Trank went from the excellent Chronicle (RT 85% - I know some of you didn't like it but it was a hit), to this Fantastic Four (RT 10%). I feel like Trank's brief tweet (he has since deleted it) about executive meddling probably isn't that far from the truth.
I do feel a little vindicated - the actors aren't what makes the movie bad, apparently, it's that there is literally no second act and the plot itself is kind of dull.
Okay, so apparently the movie is trash, to no one's surprise. Everyone in the film is starting to play the blame game. It's disappointing that Trank went from the excellent Chronicle (RT 85% - I know some of you didn't like it but it was a hit), to this Fantastic Four (RT 10%). I feel like Trank's brief tweet (he has since deleted it) about executive meddling probably isn't that far from the truth.
I do feel a little vindicated - the actors aren't what makes the movie bad, apparently, it's that there is literally no second act and the plot itself is kind of dull.
I honestly have to agree with what was said about fantastic Four. I didn't mind the actors at all, the movie sets itself up to at least have some decent potential to be worked with, and then honestly craps all over it at the end. Its like they spent all this time and energy giving you the setup for the origin story, and then realized that they were running out of time and crammed the rest of it into the last 10 minutes (and very poorly at that....). I'm not usually one to bash on movies, I try to focus on the good parts of movies and ignore the bad parts as much as reasonably possible. But on an overall level, this movie was terrible. I'm just glad I got to see it for free thanks to a free movie ticket (specifically for fantastic four) on a movie I bought from Best Buy last week :p.
This has a lower rating on Rotten Tomatoes than the 2005 movie. Is it worse than the 2005 movie?
The best review I have seen of this film is "The only fantastic thing about this film is that, even with the bar so incredibly low, it fails to be better than its predecessors"
(Although I'm also partial to "This film is the cinematic equivalent of malware")
The 2005 movie, for all its faults, at least had a sense of fun and a cast who gave the Four distinct recognizable personalities. Michael Chiklis especially was a rock-solid Ben Grimm who just needed a better script.
That is... not the impression the reviews give this film. (God knows I'm not going to bother seeing for myself.)
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All you really need to know about how bad this movie is is that (I wouldn't consider this a spoiler, but better safe than sorry. It's nothing plot related)
we learn that "It's clobbering time!" is what Ben Grimm's brother used to yell while beating him senseless is a child, and his fun catchphrase is now just more dark and grim crap.
I don't get why these movies can't be adventures. Send the Fantastic Four into space! Go to Atlantis, go toe to toe with Mole Man, something fun.
What would be wrong with a black James Bond? Idris Elba is one of the most fan-desired castings in that role. Bond's race doesn't matter, only his nationality.
I honestly don't understand the outrage here. If they've cast a good Johnny Storm (which I believe they have) and a good Susan Storm (meh), who cares. You're hating on change just because it's change, but if the casting was about getting the right people for the roles (and making it work, plot wise, if they're obviously no genetically related), what is the big deal? People act like they make these changes for the sake of change.
And if you don't care about the source material, why do you care that they changed it?
What exactly does getting the right person for the role entail?
I just don't understand the point of it. I particularly do not understand the point of specifically making the Storm family black, but making Sue adopted. Why couldn't Johnny be the adopted one? Blah blah blah.
Do you think they HAD to cast Kate Mara as Sue Storm? Was she just that great for the role? By your "meh", I'm willing to wager that you don't particularly believe that to be true.
Then why'd they cast her?
And, yes, I do think this was change for the sake of change. No reason whatsoever. Either that or the director wanting his pal to be in his movie again.
So i went there with low expectations and two kids who were bored... my oldest son would make cinema sins proud hahaha.
Ok so Doom's powers arent explained at all. Reed escapes a facility and spends a year on the run (in that time he somehow built restra8n cuffs for his powers because apparently when he escaped he didnt have control but somehow escaped anyways?).
The movie had a second act its just that it gets covered by sue storm listening to music as she catches reed because he is using l337 sp34k during his online escapades.
The scene in the trailer where they drop ben from a plane was absent? And Doom is defeated because he starts monologuing... (my son and i both made an Incredibles referrence and busted laughing afterwards)...
Unless there is a super secret scene (didnt bother to check) Doom is dead so good job killing the only working villain in the F4 franchise (Namor is a dick but not villain material).
Anywyas at least Victor had his classic line "...there is only Doom".
Overall still a better love story than twilight.
Btw im not going to spoil stuff for such a critically hated movie. Honestly its bad but go in with low expectations and an understanding of why this movie was made and you will easily find this is not as bad as pixels.
What would be wrong with a black James Bond? Idris Elba is one of the most fan-desired castings in that role. Bond's race doesn't matter, only his nationality.
Source material could be bent only so much.
I'm not sure what you're saying here. Are you still opposed to a black bond?
What exactly does getting the right person for the role entail?
I just don't understand the point of it. I particularly do not understand the point of specifically making the Storm family black, but making Sue adopted. Why couldn't Johnny be the adopted one? Blah blah blah.
Do you think they HAD to cast Kate Mara as Sue Storm? Was she just that great for the role? By your "meh", I'm willing to wager that you don't particularly believe that to be true.
Then why'd they cast her?
And, yes, I do think this was change for the sake of change. No reason whatsoever. Either that or the director wanting his pal to be in his movie again.
Why does this bother you so much?
Why does it matter that either of them are adopted? The whole point of the Fantastic Four is the theme of family. Ben Grimm is just as much part of the Fantastic Four family as the rest, and he's not related by blood to any of them.
Why does it matter which sibling is adopted? The only thing it affects is the casting of Dr. Storm, who is played by the great Reg E. Cathey. It doesn't affect the narrative in any way.
Look, there ARE characters whose race is important to the character itself. Steve Rogers' race is important because he represents everything the Nazi's wanted, but he's actually the complete opposite. Luke Cage's race is a large part of his identity as a character, and even though he started as a blaxploitation character, he's evolved past that.
The Fantastic Four don't have their race tied to their identities at all. They've just been historically portrayed as white, but their race is irrelevant.
Bond, for instance, has been characterized so differently so many times that as long as he's British, Awesome, likes his Vodka Martinis Shaken, and has cool gadgets, he's bond.
First weekend, only made half its budget back worldwide, only 23 million domestically, and abysmal press.
Now, I don't know anything about the situation behind the whole rights thing, apparently Fox needed to make a Fantastic Four film or they'd lose the rights?
My question is are the rights to the Fantastic Four really worth it at this point?
*****ty excuse. Just because he has a (deliberately) cheesy name doesn't mean he isn't a great villain. I absolutely loathe the F4, but I still read them from time to time if there's a good Doom arc in them.
I honestly don't understand the outrage here. If they've cast a good Johnny Storm (which I believe they have) and a good Susan Storm (meh), who cares. You're hating on change just because it's change, but if the casting was about getting the right people for the roles (and making it work, plot wise, if they're obviously no genetically related), what is the big deal? People act like they make these changes for the sake of change.
And if you don't care about the source material, why do you care that they changed it?
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F4 will become the new spiderman: they are going to keep rebooting the origin story to keep their movie rights and bastardize the franchise.
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Nah. Like Spider-man, after the failure of the reboot Fox will call it quits and give back the rights, since all it has done is cost them money, or at least make them very little money.
Marvel will then integrate them into the MCU. Hopefully kind of like how they handled Hank Pym in Ant-Man or how they're handling Spider-Man in Civil War.
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Bond is in a unique position because there's already a long precedent of him changing his face. He doesn't have one iconic "look" (not above the black tie, anyway). With most superheroes, though, the look is very important. Forget about changing race -- just imagine casting Clark Kent as a blond. You will notice in this film that they did not cast Michael B. Jordan as Reed Richards; they cast him as the guy whose iconic look is "face obscured by fire".
That's optimistic of you, I think. Remember that Fox is not Sony. And they've done pretty well for themselves hanging onto the X-Men rights.
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And Lex Luthor stole 40 cakes, that's as many as four tens, and that's terrible.
Yes, he's a huge ham, but being a huge ham doesn't prevent him from being a really good character in the Marvel Universe.
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What they should do someday is the Triumph and Torment storyline, but we know that's not going to happen.
I think huge hams are a lot of fun. I think Doom is a lot of fun. But I also think expecting audiences to buy into him as a serious and nuanced character is a big ask. I think the best you can expect of a MCU Doctor Doom is somewhere pn the Jeff Bridges/Hugo Weaving/Ben Kingsley level of hamtastically entertaining. (Still better than every other villain except Loki. Really, villainy has been a consistent weakness of the MCU.)
...and then, of course, he gets gloriously pwned by Squirrel Girl.
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I agree that a movie can never really portray our favourite characters in the way that we would hope, but I am interested to see what they do with it. Out of all the recent Marvel titles (the seemingly endless nowadays...) this one, for me being a F4 and a colossal Dr.Doom fanm grabbed my attention more than a possible civil war or deadpool flick IMO.
However, I wasn't a huge on his name being credited as Domansky, but they have since changed it to Victor von Doom.
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He also takes on celestials, singlehanded, and survives...and 'shanghais' Scarlett Witches powers...and kills the Master of Doom (in the Guardians movie the dude who is seemingly a scout or something to Thanos who gets killed by Ronan). Point being Doom has done a ton of things that outway the campy, "good guy has to win clause" at the end of every major comic book story. Never really a fan of the New Avengers, it seems like a C-lister's dream team with less talent (on the creative team) than the flagship series.
Ps. Doom also plays a big role in Dark Reign and the subsequent "Doom"war arc, making a vibranium suit, much like Ultron in the second avengers movie.
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I do feel a little vindicated - the actors aren't what makes the movie bad, apparently, it's that there is literally no second act and the plot itself is kind of dull.
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I honestly have to agree with what was said about fantastic Four. I didn't mind the actors at all, the movie sets itself up to at least have some decent potential to be worked with, and then honestly craps all over it at the end. Its like they spent all this time and energy giving you the setup for the origin story, and then realized that they were running out of time and crammed the rest of it into the last 10 minutes (and very poorly at that....). I'm not usually one to bash on movies, I try to focus on the good parts of movies and ignore the bad parts as much as reasonably possible. But on an overall level, this movie was terrible. I'm just glad I got to see it for free thanks to a free movie ticket (specifically for fantastic four) on a movie I bought from Best Buy last week :p.
It's not just worse than the 2005 version, but according to reviews this movie is probably worse than Catwoman/Elektra.
Pretty much confirms Fox only made this movie to keep the rights and nothing more.
The best review I have seen of this film is "The only fantastic thing about this film is that, even with the bar so incredibly low, it fails to be better than its predecessors"
(Although I'm also partial to "This film is the cinematic equivalent of malware")
That is... not the impression the reviews give this film. (God knows I'm not going to bother seeing for myself.)
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I'll let myself out now.
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Source material could be bent only so much.
What exactly does getting the right person for the role entail?
I just don't understand the point of it. I particularly do not understand the point of specifically making the Storm family black, but making Sue adopted. Why couldn't Johnny be the adopted one? Blah blah blah.
Do you think they HAD to cast Kate Mara as Sue Storm? Was she just that great for the role? By your "meh", I'm willing to wager that you don't particularly believe that to be true.
Then why'd they cast her?
And, yes, I do think this was change for the sake of change. No reason whatsoever. Either that or the director wanting his pal to be in his movie again.
Ok so Doom's powers arent explained at all. Reed escapes a facility and spends a year on the run (in that time he somehow built restra8n cuffs for his powers because apparently when he escaped he didnt have control but somehow escaped anyways?).
The movie had a second act its just that it gets covered by sue storm listening to music as she catches reed because he is using l337 sp34k during his online escapades.
The scene in the trailer where they drop ben from a plane was absent? And Doom is defeated because he starts monologuing... (my son and i both made an Incredibles referrence and busted laughing afterwards)...
Unless there is a super secret scene (didnt bother to check) Doom is dead so good job killing the only working villain in the F4 franchise (Namor is a dick but not villain material).
Anywyas at least Victor had his classic line "...there is only Doom".
Overall still a better love story than twilight.
Btw im not going to spoil stuff for such a critically hated movie. Honestly its bad but go in with low expectations and an understanding of why this movie was made and you will easily find this is not as bad as pixels.
Why does this bother you so much?
Why does it matter that either of them are adopted? The whole point of the Fantastic Four is the theme of family. Ben Grimm is just as much part of the Fantastic Four family as the rest, and he's not related by blood to any of them.
Why does it matter which sibling is adopted? The only thing it affects is the casting of Dr. Storm, who is played by the great Reg E. Cathey. It doesn't affect the narrative in any way.
Look, there ARE characters whose race is important to the character itself. Steve Rogers' race is important because he represents everything the Nazi's wanted, but he's actually the complete opposite. Luke Cage's race is a large part of his identity as a character, and even though he started as a blaxploitation character, he's evolved past that.
The Fantastic Four don't have their race tied to their identities at all. They've just been historically portrayed as white, but their race is irrelevant.
Bond, for instance, has been characterized so differently so many times that as long as he's British, Awesome, likes his Vodka Martinis Shaken, and has cool gadgets, he's bond.
So, in summary:
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First weekend, only made half its budget back worldwide, only 23 million domestically, and abysmal press.
Now, I don't know anything about the situation behind the whole rights thing, apparently Fox needed to make a Fantastic Four film or they'd lose the rights?
My question is are the rights to the Fantastic Four really worth it at this point?