As above and namely Calvinists, Arminians, Lutherans, Anglicans, Methodists, Presbyterians, Protestants, etc. (I guess Baptists and Evangelicals too). Furthermore, are the Anglicans Protestants or not and why?
Moreover, who are the big names and what did they do? I know of (John) Knox, (John) Wesley, R. Henry VIII and (Thomas) Cranmer, among a few others.
If someone could better guide this discussion, that would be great.
As above and namely Calvinists, Arminians, Lutherans, Anglicans, Methodists, Presbyterians, Protestants, etc. (I guess Baptists and Evangelicals too).
You can research the topic to find the major beliefs and stances of any given creed above. (Also, do you mean by "Arminians" Armenians?)
Apart from that, it really boils down to, "Show me one and I'll tell you what his beliefs are."
Furthermore, are the Anglicans Protestants or not and why?
Yes, they are. They follow the principles of the Protestant reformation.
If someone could better guide this discussion, that would be great.
The topic is so broad that you'll want to do your own research to find out exactly what you want to know. You've essentially made a post that says, "Non-Catholic/Orthodox Christianity from the 1500s until now. Go." Which is great that you have that curiosity, but it's a huge topic and each individual church, movement, and country has its own history. You'd be better off maybe finding a specific question, or getting the information from experts on the subjects either online or at a library.
This is simply a topic too large for a forum post, probably too large for a single book. I'm sure many of us can answer questions on particular topics within it (liberal Presbyterian philosophy here) but there are so many Christian sects that they could never all be covered.
As above and namely Calvinists, Arminians, Lutherans, Anglicans, Methodists, Presbyterians, Protestants, etc. (I guess Baptists and Evangelicals too).
You can research the topic to find the major beliefs and stances of any given creed above.
Indeed, I can! (In fact, I may even have!)
(Also, do you mean by "Arminians" Armenians?)
Due respect, I have no idea what you're on about or how you could have come to that. Without any doubt or equivocation, no; I mean what I mean and that was what I had written, and that is Arminian.
For your information and consideration, Arminianism is a movement within Christianity based on the theology of Arminius (or Hermanszoon), a Dutch Reformed (i.e., Protestant). High Church Anglicanism, Methodism, and Baptist churches incorporate Arminian ideas. That is about all I know about Arminianism/Arminians.
Furthermore, are the Anglicans Protestants or not and why?
Yes, they are. They follow the principles of the Protestant reformation.
But in practice they are very similar to Roman Catholics than (other) Protestant denominations. Is that right?
This is simply a topic too large for a forum post, probably too large for a single book. I'm sure many of us can answer questions on particular topics within it (liberal Presbyterian philosophy here) but there are so many Christian sects that they could never all be covered.
Sure, this is a big topic area, and there are a large number of subtopics within this. Though, surely, someone, among all of the smart and wise folk here, must understand this broadly, deeply, and well enough to be able to explain this and distill things down.
If it's simply a matter of Q&A, then clearly no one truly understand it well enough and perhaps I am barking up the wrong tree.
Due respect, I have no idea what you're on about or how you could have come to that. Without any doubt or equivocation, no; I mean what I mean and that was what I had written, and that is Arminian.
For your information and consideration, Arminianism is a movement within Christianity based on the theology of Arminius (or Hermanszoon), a Dutch Reformed (i.e., Protestant). High Church Anglicanism, Methodism, and Baptist churches incorporate Arminian ideas. That is about all I know about Arminianism/Arminians.
Huh. I had never heard of them.
But in practice they are very similar to Roman Catholics than (other) Protestant denominations. Is that right?
They take from both traditions.
Again, you can look up the Church of England online for an explanation on this.
If it's simply a matter of Q&A, then clearly no one truly understand it well enough and perhaps I am barking up the wrong tree.
Due respect, I have no idea what you're on about or how you could have come to that. Without any doubt or equivocation, no; I mean what I mean and that was what I had written, and that is Arminian.
For your information and consideration, Arminianism is a movement within Christianity based on the theology of Arminius (or Hermanszoon), a Dutch Reformed (i.e., Protestant). High Church Anglicanism, Methodism, and Baptist churches incorporate Arminian ideas. That is about all I know about Arminianism/Arminians.
Huh. I had never heard of them.
Goes to show.
That's fine.
But in practice they are very similar to Roman Catholics than (other) Protestant denominations. Is that right?
They take from both traditions.
Sure, sure, but Protestantism 'takes from' [Roman] Catholicism itself, which isn't very surprising given its descent from Catholicism, Orthodoxy, and the church established by Jesus [H.] Christ.(!)
Also, if Anglicanism draws upon both traditions, wouldn't it be some third branch or something rather than a church within Protestantism itself? What precisely makes it a church of its own or a church within Protestantism? I attended CoI/CoE services (as well as various others) and it was always stressed that the Church was 'reformed but/and catholic' and, indeed, the Church had theology and practices shared with Protestantism and Catholicism but it was its own church within Western Christianity.
Even after the Reformations (and the Catholic Counter-Reformation) and attempts at radically distinguishing and dissociating itself from Catholicism, Protestantism remains remarkably theologically similar, yet it is so different.
Again, you can look up the Church of England online for an explanation on this.
Why of course. Cheers.
If it's simply a matter of Q&A, then clearly no one truly understand it well enough and perhaps I am barking up the wrong tree.
Yes.
...So, isn't anyone a serious theologian, a philosopher, or a well-read individual?
For anyone else's interest, I have found some summaries and charts for reference -- if they are indeed accurate, objective, comprehensive and useful.
Highroller, are you in fact religious and what is your background or understanding of theology and religious studies? Cheers.
By the by, I am completely and utterly serious and not trolling or pulling anyone's leg here. For personal enlightenment and perhaps discovery of the truth (oh, of course, please don't push any one belief system, thanks), I really would like to know what the differences are in the theology and in practices of these (what appear to be artificial and politically motivated) divisions within Christianity, namely, Western Christianity.
Okay here's the thing, no one has a "broad and deep knowledge" from Christianity from Martin Luther through modern personal hyper-syncretic beliefs people identify as being Christian. There are no clear lines you can draw even between major denominations.
For example: I was raised Presbyterian (PCUSA, not to be confused with the completely different Presbyterian Church in America). Many of the beliefs I was raised with in that church do not line up with PCUSA doctrine and almost none of them with Calvinist tradition. It's like post-modern Christianity. A minister once agreed with me that Revelation was a ridiculous thing to have in the Bible.
So, isn't anyone a serious theologian, a philosopher, or a well-read individual?
It's one thing to have well-read individuals here and/or people educated in various disciplines; it's another thing entirety to hope that people who have the information you want on such a broad and deep topic to be on this forum and available to talk to you.
You're much better off asking going to places where people are actually "qualified"; a theological school, perhaps. There you can get one side of the story, and go on to other places to get more information and come to your own conclusion.
I am a well read, informed, and studied amateur theologian - doesn't mean I want to write a dissertation on the spectrum of Christianity from Charlemagne to Falwell here on this forum.
The subject was so big and broad, it was a nonstarter.
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“Thus strangely are our souls constructed, and by slight ligaments
are we bound to prosperity and ruin.”
― Mary Shelley, Frankenstein
So, isn't anyone a serious theologian, a philosopher, or a well-read individual?
It's one thing to have well-read individuals here and/or people educated in various disciplines; it's another thing entirety to hope that people who have the information you want on such a broad and deep topic to be on this forum and available to talk to you.
Why of course.
You're much better off asking going to places where people are actually "qualified"; a theological school, perhaps. There you can get one side of the story, and go on to other places to get more information and come to your own conclusion.
Okay here's the thing, no one has a "broad and deep knowledge" from Christianity from Martin Luther through modern personal hyper-syncretic beliefs people identify as being Christian. There are no clear lines you can draw even between major denominations.
Oh, I see. Thank you and thank you for your reply. I suppose it would be not only difficult because of the vast nature of this, but the ill-defined denominations, even as they were conceived.
For example: I was raised Presbyterian (PCUSA, not to be confused with the completely different Presbyterian Church in America). Many of the beliefs I was raised with in that church do not line up with PCUSA doctrine and almost none of them with Calvinist tradition. It's like post-modern Christianity. A minister once agreed with me that Revelation was a ridiculous thing to have in the Bible.
I am a well read, informed, and studied amateur theologian - doesn't mean I want to write a dissertation on the spectrum of Christianity from Charlemagne to Falwell here on this forum.
I think you miss the point, which is the more pronounced differences, but okay.
I think the links I provided above are adequate for now anyway.
The subject was so big and broad, it was a nonstarter.
Well, they all believe the best way to find salvation is through the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth... and disagree on just about everything else... especially on what those teachings are, exactly.
Additionally, due to the decentralized nature of some of those groups, you will have two clergymen from the same denominate--but different dioceses--teaching very different things. Baptist pastors--for example--will preach contradicting messages right across the street from one another.
Once you get to the individual, the belief structure is invariably varied. I've known people to disavow the very tenets of the religion they profess to be. I've met 'Catholics'--for example--that don't agree with Papal infallibility.
So--I guess--the question becomes, what do you mean by "different?" Do you mean differences in doctrine? The difference in the structure/hierarchy of the churches? How one joins? But, differences of belief? That's a tough one.
Beliefs are as varied as the people that hold them.
I'm an ex-Presbyterian with some Lutheran relatives.
I was taught that the main difference between those two is that Lutherans believe baptism and communion cause you to get closer to God, while Presbyterians view them as neat traditions that signify that you're closer to God. Sort of like a club giving you a ring because it makes you strong, versus another club giving you a ring in recognition of how you went to the gym a lot.
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Moreover, who are the big names and what did they do? I know of (John) Knox, (John) Wesley, R. Henry VIII and (Thomas) Cranmer, among a few others.
If someone could better guide this discussion, that would be great.
You can research the topic to find the major beliefs and stances of any given creed above. (Also, do you mean by "Arminians" Armenians?)
Apart from that, it really boils down to, "Show me one and I'll tell you what his beliefs are."
Yes, they are. They follow the principles of the Protestant reformation.
The topic is so broad that you'll want to do your own research to find out exactly what you want to know. You've essentially made a post that says, "Non-Catholic/Orthodox Christianity from the 1500s until now. Go." Which is great that you have that curiosity, but it's a huge topic and each individual church, movement, and country has its own history. You'd be better off maybe finding a specific question, or getting the information from experts on the subjects either online or at a library.
Due respect, I have no idea what you're on about or how you could have come to that. Without any doubt or equivocation, no; I mean what I mean and that was what I had written, and that is Arminian.
For your information and consideration, Arminianism is a movement within Christianity based on the theology of Arminius (or Hermanszoon), a Dutch Reformed (i.e., Protestant). High Church Anglicanism, Methodism, and Baptist churches incorporate Arminian ideas. That is about all I know about Arminianism/Arminians.
But in practice they are very similar to Roman Catholics than (other) Protestant denominations. Is that right?
Sure, this is a big topic area, and there are a large number of subtopics within this. Though, surely, someone, among all of the smart and wise folk here, must understand this broadly, deeply, and well enough to be able to explain this and distill things down.
If it's simply a matter of Q&A, then clearly no one truly understand it well enough and perhaps I am barking up the wrong tree.
Huh. I had never heard of them.
They take from both traditions.
Again, you can look up the Church of England online for an explanation on this.
Yes.
Goes to show.
That's fine.
Sure, sure, but Protestantism 'takes from' [Roman] Catholicism itself, which isn't very surprising given its descent from Catholicism, Orthodoxy, and the church established by Jesus [H.] Christ.(!)
Also, if Anglicanism draws upon both traditions, wouldn't it be some third branch or something rather than a church within Protestantism itself? What precisely makes it a church of its own or a church within Protestantism? I attended CoI/CoE services (as well as various others) and it was always stressed that the Church was 'reformed but/and catholic' and, indeed, the Church had theology and practices shared with Protestantism and Catholicism but it was its own church within Western Christianity.
Even after the Reformations (and the Catholic Counter-Reformation) and attempts at radically distinguishing and dissociating itself from Catholicism, Protestantism remains remarkably theologically similar, yet it is so different.
Why of course. Cheers.
...So, isn't anyone a serious theologian, a philosopher, or a well-read individual?
For anyone else's interest, I have found some summaries and charts for reference -- if they are indeed accurate, objective, comprehensive and useful.
Highroller, are you in fact religious and what is your background or understanding of theology and religious studies? Cheers.
By the by, I am completely and utterly serious and not trolling or pulling anyone's leg here. For personal enlightenment and perhaps discovery of the truth (oh, of course, please don't push any one belief system, thanks), I really would like to know what the differences are in the theology and in practices of these (what appear to be artificial and politically motivated) divisions within Christianity, namely, Western Christianity.
For example: I was raised Presbyterian (PCUSA, not to be confused with the completely different Presbyterian Church in America). Many of the beliefs I was raised with in that church do not line up with PCUSA doctrine and almost none of them with Calvinist tradition. It's like post-modern Christianity. A minister once agreed with me that Revelation was a ridiculous thing to have in the Bible.
It's one thing to have well-read individuals here and/or people educated in various disciplines; it's another thing entirety to hope that people who have the information you want on such a broad and deep topic to be on this forum and available to talk to you.
You're much better off asking going to places where people are actually "qualified"; a theological school, perhaps. There you can get one side of the story, and go on to other places to get more information and come to your own conclusion.
You know, research.
The subject was so big and broad, it was a nonstarter.
Thanks to Xenphire @ Inkfox for the amazing new sig
“Thus strangely are our souls constructed, and by slight ligaments
are we bound to prosperity and ruin.”
― Mary Shelley, Frankenstein
Sure. Thanks for your reply.
Oh, I see. Thank you and thank you for your reply. I suppose it would be not only difficult because of the vast nature of this, but the ill-defined denominations, even as they were conceived.
Interesting.
I think you miss the point, which is the more pronounced differences, but okay.
I think the links I provided above are adequate for now anyway.
Got it. Cheers.
Additionally, due to the decentralized nature of some of those groups, you will have two clergymen from the same denominate--but different dioceses--teaching very different things. Baptist pastors--for example--will preach contradicting messages right across the street from one another.
Once you get to the individual, the belief structure is invariably varied. I've known people to disavow the very tenets of the religion they profess to be. I've met 'Catholics'--for example--that don't agree with Papal infallibility.
So--I guess--the question becomes, what do you mean by "different?" Do you mean differences in doctrine? The difference in the structure/hierarchy of the churches? How one joins? But, differences of belief? That's a tough one.
Beliefs are as varied as the people that hold them.
I was taught that the main difference between those two is that Lutherans believe baptism and communion cause you to get closer to God, while Presbyterians view them as neat traditions that signify that you're closer to God. Sort of like a club giving you a ring because it makes you strong, versus another club giving you a ring in recognition of how you went to the gym a lot.
Modern: U M'Olk; B Goodstuff