"Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's"
Can someone explain this quote to me? Full disclosure, I'm currently an Atheist but was raised semi-Anglican Christian, and according to this post I'm not using the quote correctly.
I thought of it as an admonition to Christians, telling them to play their part in society and not attempt to minimize their obligation to the nation they take part in. Apparently I'm wrong.
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“Tell me who you walk with, and I'll tell you who you are.” Esmeralda Santiago Art is life itself.
It means that the guys he was talking to should pay their taxes.
Beyond that, it means whatever you want it to mean, because it's just interpretation. It's not like Jesus is going to show up and tell you that you're reading it wrong.
It's not related to the Camel and the needle parable...at least no more than other parables are related to each other.
The context of the story is that Pharisees were trying to trap him, asking should we pay taxes. They wanted to either hurt Jesus' popular appeal or get him arrested by Roman authorities.
Jesus deflected the question skillfully asking to be shown a coin.
The initial question, whose image is this is, directs the focus of the inquiry to the one who originated the manufacture of the coin.
The answer: Caesars
The coin obviously belongs to Caesar in some sense. It is his image, his inscription. His authority by which the coin was made.
The second part of the answer, Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's and give to God what is Gods, therefore comes as a corollary to the first part of the question.
If the coin bears Caesar's name, image, and inscription, then it is also acceptable to rend under Caesar what is his. It politely points out...your "ownership" of money is an object another dude's face and name on it, printed by his authority, and available as currency under his jurisdiction.
Rend unto God what is God's is the second part and serves to reorient the focus of the discussion back to an emphasis on God.
Ultimately it was a palatable way to say to the masses, "pay your taxes", with the answer to the first question there to soften the blow.
The latter response, "The give unto God what is God's", further softens the blow, partially through further deflection,
but also an indirect emphasis of a line between overt attachment to Caesar's money and God's purpose.
"Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's"
Can someone explain this quote to me? Full disclosure, I'm currently an Atheist but was raised semi-Anglican Christian, and according to this post I'm not using the quote correctly.
I thought of it as an admonition to Christians, telling them to play their part in society and not attempt to minimize their obligation to the nation they take part in. Apparently I'm wrong.
If you actually read where this comes from it is another tests by the high priests to trap Christ.
During the day you owed taxes to the Roman Government. To not pay taxes was a crime and you could go to jail.
To speak out against Caesar was something totally different. It was a death sentence to speak out against the emperor.
before we have to look at the answer we have to look at the question.
Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?
Had Christ answered yes it is then they could have arrested him for speaking out against Caesar.
The answer that he gave above was the correct answer for the question.
By saying render to Caesar his property. he doesn't speak out against the emperor then he rebukes them by saying give to God the things that are God's. In which he references what he said earlier Love they God with all your heart your might and soul.
The eye of the needle was a small gate outside the city. It was used to funnel sheep into the holding area when the shepherds came into town or other small animals.
The whole verse goes it is easier for a camel to get through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven.
The reason for the verse is this. Most rich people love their money above all else. Not all rich people but a few. The bible says to Love your God with all your heart, all your might and all your strength.
When you put money above God you have in essence made money a god.
I do not love money more than God. I like making money i enjoy the benefit that it gives me and my family. I also realize where that money comes from.
I realize that i am blessed for the situations that have come my way and that i was able to seize them when they did.
The eye of the needle was a small gate outside the city. It was used to funnel sheep into the holding area when the shepherds came into town or other small animals.
Provide evidence independent of post-medieval Biblical exegesis that there existed such a gate. (Hint: There isn't any.)
Jesus was talking about a needle, as in the thing you sew with. The gate story was invented for the sole purpose of sheltering wealthy Christians from the uncomfortable but clear meaning of the verse. "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us,' when, in fact, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie?" (Jer 8:8)
The reason for the verse is this. Most rich people love their money above all else. Not all rich people but a few.
It is certainly easier and more convenient to believe this than "If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor" (Mat 19:21).
Provide evidence independent of post-medieval Biblical exegesis that there existed such a gate. (Hint: There isn't any.)
Jesus was talking about a needle, as in the thing you sew with. The gate story was invented for the sole purpose of sheltering wealthy Christians from the uncomfortable but clear meaning of the verse. "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us,' when, in fact, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie?" (Jer 8:8)
Just checked my study bible which is updated with the latest versions.
while true it doesn't refer to an actual gate.
it refers to it as the smallest opening in a home. which is consistent with other meanings. Which is a very small opening.
a needles eye would be a very small opening or refer to a very small opening, or a small pass.
in Aramaic there are 3 meaning for the world gamla. they are Camel, a large rope, a beam.
this would be consistent with Christ in his other message of that Narrow is the way that leads to righteousness but broad is the way to destruction.
i will go with that as my interpretation.
a better wording is it is easier for a large object to pass through a small opening.
Christ is being very hyperbolic here. for the rest of the verse the disciples goes onto say then how can one be saved?
Christ respond with men nothing is possible, but through God all things are possible.
Christ was a bit sarcastic at times.
It is certainly easier and more convenient to believe this than "If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor"
They both say the same thing. the latter verse was a test to see where the man's heart was.
did he really want to follow Christ and willing to give up everything or was he to attached to what he had.
if you read later like vs 23 or 24 the man walked away sorrowful because he had many possessions.
which then christ follows up with the camel and eye example.
one of the ten commandments was thou shalt have no other god's before me.
what is a god? anything that has more importance or something that you crave above all else.
really it could be anything you love more than God.
which is why i said above i don't love money more than God. i like making it i enjoy having it but i don't love it more.
mostly because God has provided me a lot of what i have. i am to be a good steward over that.
it refers to it as the smallest opening in a home.
And does it say why it means that instead of meaning what the words actually say?
You should also bear in mind that this is not a unique turn of phrase. There are a number of Talmudic references suggesting that the Hebrews used "camel through the eye of a needle" or "elephant through the eye of a needle" in much the same way we'd say "when pigs fly": to refer to an impossible event.
They both say the same thing. the latter verse was a test to see where the man's heart was.
did he really want to follow Christ and willing to give up everything or was he to attached to what he had.
Why do you think you are exempt from this test? Why have you not given up everything? It is very easy for you to say that you put God over your possessions. This rich man who met Jesus could have said the same. But Jesus, keen student of human nature that he was, didn't ask the man to say it. He asked the man to do it.
If you would be a good Christian, living the sort of life that Jesus endorsed, join or found a mendicant order, like St. Francis of Assisi did. Don't try to pretend that the impoverished wandering Jewish rabbi who said these things about wealth and camels and needles would give a big thumbs up to comfy American capitalism. He is much more the forerunner of Marx and Bakhunin.
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Vive, vale. Siquid novisti rectius istis,
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
And does it say why it means that instead of meaning what the words actually say?
You should also bear in mind that this is not a unique turn of phrase. There are a number of Talmudic references suggesting that the Hebrews used "camel through the eye of a needle" or "elephant through the eye of a needle" in much the same way we'd say "when pigs fly": to refer to an impossible event.
The eye of a needle is actually a small opening. so the interpretation is close enough for the relation of the word.
I am not saying that it is unique. i agree it does really come down to that an improbable event.
The Gospels were written in Greek.
right but the language of the day was Aramaic.
it is what people spoke in at least in that general area.
Why do you think you are exempt from this test?
I never said i was, but i realize where my success and income come from.
Why have you not given up everything?
1 I have family that God has charged me to take care of. i can't do that by giving up everything.
2. I do not value my possessions above God.
But Jesus, keen student of human nature that he was, didn't ask the man to say it. He asked the man to do it.
I have at one time lost everything as well.
I lost my job (no fault of my own) i almost lost my wife and family. I almost lost my apartment.
at one point i almost lost my life.
Don't try to pretend that the impoverished wandering Jewish rabbi who said these things about wealth and camels and needles would give a big thumbs up to comfy American capitalism. He is much more the forerunner of Marx and Bakhunin.
Actually Christ was taken care of along with his disciples. They had places to stay and people that provided him food and money from their own means as stated in luke.
Mary and Martha were not poor. Neither was matthew (levi). Christ would not look down on capitalism he would be more disappointed in that people didn't use it for better use than what they do.
The same applies to this day. Christains and churches are some of those charitable giving people in the world. Our church distributes to food programs all over the city.
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Thanks to Epic Graphics the best around. Thanks to Nex3 for the avatar visit ye old sig and avatar forum
"Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's"
Can someone explain this quote to me?
Well, it helps to read the passages in full, I feel. So here we go:
Quote from Mark 12:13-17 »
Then they sent to him some Pharisees and some Herodians to trap him in what he said. And they came and said to him, ‘Teacher, we know that you are sincere, and show deference to no one; for you do not regard people with partiality, but teach the way of God in accordance with truth. Is it lawful to pay taxes to the emperor, or not? Should we pay them, or should we not?’ But knowing their hypocrisy, he said to them, ‘Why are you putting me to the test? Bring me a denarius and let me see it.’ And they brought one. Then he said to them, ‘Whose head is this, and whose title?’ They answered, ‘The emperor’s.’ Jesus said to them, ‘Give to the emperor the things that are the emperor’s, and to God the things that are God’s.’ And they were utterly amazed at him.
Quote from Matthew 22:15-22, Oremus Bible Browser »
Then the Pharisees went and plotted to entrap him in what he said. So they sent their disciples to him, along with the Herodians, saying, ‘Teacher, we know that you are sincere, and teach the way of God in accordance with truth, and show deference to no one; for you do not regard people with partiality. Tell us, then, what you think. Is it lawful to pay taxes to the emperor, or not?’ But Jesus, aware of their malice, said, ‘Why are you putting me to the test, you hypocrites? Show me the coin used for the tax.’ And they brought him a denarius. Then he said to them, ‘Whose head is this, and whose title?’ They answered, ‘The emperor’s.’ Then he said to them, ‘Give therefore to the emperor the things that are the emperor’s, and to God the things that are God’s.’ When they heard this, they were amazed; and they left him and went away.
To give some context. The Pharisees and the Herodians are trying to trap Jesus. Were Jesus to side with Roman taxation, they could use his words against him by casting him as a supporter of the conquering power that is occupying and taxing Judea. Were Jesus to, on the other hand, say it is unlawful for Rome to tax Judea, they could use his words against him by saying he is fomenting sedition against the Roman state.
Can someone explain this quote to me? Full disclosure, I'm currently an Atheist but was raised semi-Anglican Christian, and according to this post I'm not using the quote correctly.
I thought of it as an admonition to Christians, telling them to play their part in society and not attempt to minimize their obligation to the nation they take part in. Apparently I'm wrong.
Art is life itself.
Beyond that, it means whatever you want it to mean, because it's just interpretation. It's not like Jesus is going to show up and tell you that you're reading it wrong.
Jesus was an up and coming rabbi. Some wanted him to speak out against roman rule.
The preceding lines are important, matthew 22:18:
But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, “You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me?"
Basically the pharisees wanted Jesus to say something to implicate himself and piss off the Romans.
He was having none of that.
"Sometimes, the situation is outracing a threat, sometimes it's ignoring it, and sometimes it involves sideboarding in 4x Hope//Pray." --Doug Linn
Art is life itself.
The context of the story is that Pharisees were trying to trap him, asking should we pay taxes. They wanted to either hurt Jesus' popular appeal or get him arrested by Roman authorities.
Jesus deflected the question skillfully asking to be shown a coin.
The initial question, whose image is this is, directs the focus of the inquiry to the one who originated the manufacture of the coin.
The answer: Caesars
The coin obviously belongs to Caesar in some sense. It is his image, his inscription. His authority by which the coin was made.
The second part of the answer, Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's and give to God what is Gods, therefore comes as a corollary to the first part of the question.
If the coin bears Caesar's name, image, and inscription, then it is also acceptable to rend under Caesar what is his. It politely points out...your "ownership" of money is an object another dude's face and name on it, printed by his authority, and available as currency under his jurisdiction.
Rend unto God what is God's is the second part and serves to reorient the focus of the discussion back to an emphasis on God.
Ultimately it was a palatable way to say to the masses, "pay your taxes", with the answer to the first question there to soften the blow.
The latter response, "The give unto God what is God's", further softens the blow, partially through further deflection,
but also an indirect emphasis of a line between overt attachment to Caesar's money and God's purpose.
If you actually read where this comes from it is another tests by the high priests to trap Christ.
During the day you owed taxes to the Roman Government. To not pay taxes was a crime and you could go to jail.
To speak out against Caesar was something totally different. It was a death sentence to speak out against the emperor.
before we have to look at the answer we have to look at the question.
Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not?
Had Christ answered yes it is then they could have arrested him for speaking out against Caesar.
The answer that he gave above was the correct answer for the question.
By saying render to Caesar his property. he doesn't speak out against the emperor then he rebukes them by saying give to God the things that are God's. In which he references what he said earlier Love they God with all your heart your might and soul.
totally separate reference.
The eye of the needle was a small gate outside the city. It was used to funnel sheep into the holding area when the shepherds came into town or other small animals.
The whole verse goes it is easier for a camel to get through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven.
The reason for the verse is this. Most rich people love their money above all else. Not all rich people but a few. The bible says to Love your God with all your heart, all your might and all your strength.
When you put money above God you have in essence made money a god.
I do not love money more than God. I like making money i enjoy the benefit that it gives me and my family. I also realize where that money comes from.
I realize that i am blessed for the situations that have come my way and that i was able to seize them when they did.
Thanks to Epic Graphics the best around.
Thanks to Nex3 for the avatar visit ye old sig and avatar forum
Provide evidence independent of post-medieval Biblical exegesis that there existed such a gate. (Hint: There isn't any.)
Jesus was talking about a needle, as in the thing you sew with. The gate story was invented for the sole purpose of sheltering wealthy Christians from the uncomfortable but clear meaning of the verse. "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us,' when, in fact, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie?" (Jer 8:8)
It is certainly easier and more convenient to believe this than "If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor" (Mat 19:21).
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
Just checked my study bible which is updated with the latest versions.
while true it doesn't refer to an actual gate.
it refers to it as the smallest opening in a home. which is consistent with other meanings. Which is a very small opening.
a needles eye would be a very small opening or refer to a very small opening, or a small pass.
in Aramaic there are 3 meaning for the world gamla. they are Camel, a large rope, a beam.
this would be consistent with Christ in his other message of that Narrow is the way that leads to righteousness but broad is the way to destruction.
i will go with that as my interpretation.
a better wording is it is easier for a large object to pass through a small opening.
Christ is being very hyperbolic here. for the rest of the verse the disciples goes onto say then how can one be saved?
Christ respond with men nothing is possible, but through God all things are possible.
Christ was a bit sarcastic at times.
They both say the same thing. the latter verse was a test to see where the man's heart was.
did he really want to follow Christ and willing to give up everything or was he to attached to what he had.
if you read later like vs 23 or 24 the man walked away sorrowful because he had many possessions.
which then christ follows up with the camel and eye example.
one of the ten commandments was thou shalt have no other god's before me.
what is a god? anything that has more importance or something that you crave above all else.
really it could be anything you love more than God.
which is why i said above i don't love money more than God. i like making it i enjoy having it but i don't love it more.
mostly because God has provided me a lot of what i have. i am to be a good steward over that.
Thanks to Epic Graphics the best around.
Thanks to Nex3 for the avatar visit ye old sig and avatar forum
You should also bear in mind that this is not a unique turn of phrase. There are a number of Talmudic references suggesting that the Hebrews used "camel through the eye of a needle" or "elephant through the eye of a needle" in much the same way we'd say "when pigs fly": to refer to an impossible event.
The Gospels were written in Greek.
Why do you think you are exempt from this test? Why have you not given up everything? It is very easy for you to say that you put God over your possessions. This rich man who met Jesus could have said the same. But Jesus, keen student of human nature that he was, didn't ask the man to say it. He asked the man to do it.
If you would be a good Christian, living the sort of life that Jesus endorsed, join or found a mendicant order, like St. Francis of Assisi did. Don't try to pretend that the impoverished wandering Jewish rabbi who said these things about wealth and camels and needles would give a big thumbs up to comfy American capitalism. He is much more the forerunner of Marx and Bakhunin.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
The eye of a needle is actually a small opening. so the interpretation is close enough for the relation of the word.
I am not saying that it is unique. i agree it does really come down to that an improbable event.
right but the language of the day was Aramaic.
it is what people spoke in at least in that general area.
I never said i was, but i realize where my success and income come from.
1 I have family that God has charged me to take care of. i can't do that by giving up everything.
2. I do not value my possessions above God.
I have at one time lost everything as well.
I lost my job (no fault of my own) i almost lost my wife and family. I almost lost my apartment.
at one point i almost lost my life.
Actually Christ was taken care of along with his disciples. They had places to stay and people that provided him food and money from their own means as stated in luke.
Mary and Martha were not poor. Neither was matthew (levi). Christ would not look down on capitalism he would be more disappointed in that people didn't use it for better use than what they do.
The same applies to this day. Christains and churches are some of those charitable giving people in the world. Our church distributes to food programs all over the city.
Thanks to Epic Graphics the best around.
Thanks to Nex3 for the avatar visit ye old sig and avatar forum
Well, it helps to read the passages in full, I feel. So here we go:
To give some context. The Pharisees and the Herodians are trying to trap Jesus. Were Jesus to side with Roman taxation, they could use his words against him by casting him as a supporter of the conquering power that is occupying and taxing Judea. Were Jesus to, on the other hand, say it is unlawful for Rome to tax Judea, they could use his words against him by saying he is fomenting sedition against the Roman state.