Why do atheists bother trying to "convert" theists?

  • #203
    Quote from Pringlesman
    One less person who votes based off of scripture?

    Do you really think that a religious society has no impact on the way non-religious people have to live?


    Ahh, ok. Have not heard the voting approach before.

    However, all people vote based off themselves anyway. That's no different then someone voting away guns because they had a friend get shot 10 years ago. Personally, I've never voted then quoted which verse led me to do so. I vote based on what I think is right and my personal morals. (The only big bother I could see out of this one is gay marriage, which I've seen non-believers not support)

    Now, for the second question, no need to be condescending with the whole "Do you really think" thing.

    Everyone effects how everybody lives if you allow it. Non religious people have had major impacts on how religious people live. (Homeless guy reading bible passing Chic-Fil-A attacked by gay rioters) Religious people have had major impacts on non-religious people. Billy Joe has screwed up Jack's life and so forth. (Also, if we are discussing Religion itself, I didn't come in here talking about that. I was talking about theists and atheists. I have a personal relationship with God, not a set of rules or political group.)
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  • #204
    Religion is a personal matter anyway. People should have the right to believe in anything they want. It's when things become organized that you get cults like Westboro. My 2 cents.
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  • #205
    Indoctrination (brainwashing) is a big part of the problem obviously. I personally think it's highly unethical to take children to churches where scripture is taught as fact but I digress.

    Debating specific religions is very different from debating the existence of God. Whether one is ultimately successful or not in convincing believers, the average atheist can easily crush in a debate on the legitimacy of the garbage found in religious texts. Humans under the guise of divine influence put all kinds of BS into religious texts but it doesn't automatically destroy a case for the existence of God. From a perennialism perspective, the existence of God becomes a more legitimate argument that will be harder to win.

    It can still be a worthy exercise with the right open-minded individual. There was a rather skilled and interesting debater of the Catholic persuasion on these boards years ago that could hold his own. Don't recall his screename or if he still lurks around.

    I might add that Pascal's Wager is a bit hard to argue with even though the whole thing sounds ludicrous to an atheist.
    Last edited by akmage: 10/28/2012 4:24:51 PM



  • #206
    Quote from iCwalzy
    Hello, just stopping in to say I was not raised on religion but still ended up Christian today. Also, being on mission trips you can see people never subjected to religion become believers.

    A question of my own, why convert us at all..?
    If you think Im wrong, let me be wrong.
    Yes, "we" try to "convert " you. But thats because I believe Im gaining you a friend and everlasting life/peace. What would disproving God gain me?

    Honest, curious questions.


    Three main reasons. Self defence and a social conscience for tw and a question; do you want to live a lie and if you know someone who is doing so, is it not your duty to correct him?

    I will add these clips to the mix for your consideration. The first which is part of the second speaks to my Gnostic Christian label and the second shows my view of religions overall and the Noble Lie that I think we and our governments should rescind. The third clip speaks to the reason that religions were invented in the first place as it shows why social control was required for city states that had to deal with the reality of finite resources. I see these city states as led by a timocratic king who through the religion that he would have created, also realized that there had to be a tyrannical part to his benevolent duty and created a religion to be just that
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&list=PLCBF574D134B912A5

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrMtRm3b8MU&feature=autoplay&list=PLCBF574D134B912A5&playnext=1

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne1wIEGnPWo

    I see the King/God as having to have the morals shown in the Haigt clip.

    http://blog.ted.com/2008/09/17/the_real_differ/

    He would have to create his religion as expressed through his high priest/tyrant who would live by the first commandment of God, place no one above me as the enforcer of his King/God's rules and laws while still obeying his King. The larger Roman system would later assume the same system through the Noble Lie. First through the Flavians and later through Constantine.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WD0eSqFJ7J4

    Regards
    DL
  • #207
    Quote from vexxillion
    Religion is a personal matter anyway. People should have the right to believe in anything they want.


    Really?

    Do these people have the right to do the harm they do?

    It is my view that all literalists and fundamentals hurt all of us who are moral religionists as well as those who do not believe. They all hurt their parent religions and everyone else who has a belief or not. They make us all into laughing stocks and should rethink their position. There is a Godhead but not the God of talking animals, genocidal floods and retribution. Beliefs in fantasy, miracles and magic are evil.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HKHaClUCw4&feature=PlayList&p=5123864A5243470E&index=0&playnext=1

    They also do much harm to their own.

    African witches and Jesus
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlRG9gXriVI&feature=related

    Jesus Camp 1of 9
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBv8tv62yGM

    Promoting death to Gays.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMw2Zg_BVzw&feature=related

    For evil to grow my friends, all good people need do is nothing.
    Fight them when you can. It is your duty to our fellow man.

    Regards
    DL
  • #208
    Quote from iCwalzy
    Hello, just stopping in to say I was not raised on religion but still ended up Christian today. Also, being on mission trips you can see people never subjected to religion become believers.

    A question of my own, why convert us at all..?
    If you think Im wrong, let me be wrong.
    Yes, "we" try to "convert " you. But thats because I believe Im gaining you a friend and everlasting life/peace. What would disproving God gain me?

    Honest, curious questions.


    I don't try to convert anyone. Past a certain age I don't think most people have the capability of disbelieving in the supernatural. You don't hear of very many people 30+ becoming agnostics. I don't care what you believe. What I care about is the religious agenda, and it's will to force it's dogma on everyone instead of keep it personal and private.

    Why can't we be friends without you trying to convert me?
    Our belief is not a belief. Our principles are not a faith. We do not rely solely upon science and reason, because these are necessary rather than sufficient factors, but we distrust anything that contradicts science or outrages reason. We may differ on many things, but what we respect is free inquiry, openmindedness, and the pursuit of ideas for their own sake.

    ― Christopher Hitchens, God Is Not Great
  • #209
    Quote from Oldaughd
    Why can't we be friends without you trying to convert me?


    Because friends care about each other, and a friend who is a Christian believes he would be helping you if he could convert you.

    I've often used the example of a favorite food. Let's say your favorite food is lobster, but it's something your friend hasn't ever eaten. You would want him to try it, because you think it's such a good food. You may not know how his taste buds react to it, but you don't want him to miss out on something you believe is so fantastic.

    The problem comes when your friend has already knows he doesn't like lobster, but for some reason you keep inviting him over for lobster dinner and suggesting he go to seafood buffets and always talking about how good lobster tastes. That certainly won't make him want to try lobster again.
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  • #210
    Quote from Dechs Kaison
    Because friends care about each other, and a friend who is a Christian believes he would be helping you if he could convert you.

    I've often used the example of a favorite food. Let's say your favorite food is lobster, but it's something your friend hasn't ever eaten. You would want him to try it, because you think it's such a good food. You may not know how his taste buds react to it, but you don't want him to miss out on something you believe is so fantastic.

    The problem comes when your friend has already knows he doesn't like lobster, but for some reason you keep inviting him over for lobster dinner and suggesting he go to seafood buffets and always talking about how good lobster tastes. That certainly won't make him want to try lobster again.


    The problem that Christians ignore when they try to convert is that no man with decent morals will embrace human sacrifice and punishing the innocent instead of the guilty as good justice.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dzuxyq3ltls&feature=player_embedded

    Regards
    DL
  • #211
    Quote from Oldaughd
    Why can't we be friends without you trying to convert me?


    We can be friends without me trying to convert you. Yes, at first I'll ask how did you become an atheist, and I'll ask about your background. I'll ask if you'd open up the doors and take another shot, maybe share my testimony. But after that point, all I can really do is show you love and be an example of what it mens to be Christ-like. I don't force my beliefs on anyone, I just share them. If you say "Shut up, I don't wanna hear it." I'll be bummed, but I'll shut up. We have free-will. Christ never shoved himself upon me, so if I want to be like him, I can't shove.

    Like I said in an earlier post, I have a personal relationship with a higher power. Not a set of rules or political grouping. I apologize if you we're ever harassed or mistreated by the church/a particular religious group.
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  • #212
    Quote from Dechs Kaison

    I've often used the example of a favorite food. Let's say your favorite food is lobster, but it's something your friend hasn't ever eaten. You would want him to try it, because you think it's such a good food. You may not know how his taste buds react to it, but you don't want him to miss out on something you believe is so fantastic.


    I did a lesson about this with my youth group!

    I used the example that Jesus was Bacon Pepperoni Pizza, and we could have it as much as we want without ever getting fat and we should share him/it with all the fellow pizza lovers out there (which is basically everyone).

    :p
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  • #213
    I've got a counter question, mind that I don't wanna read the whole 15+ pages.

    but why do many religions try to convert people of other religions?
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  • #214
    Quote from motleyslayer
    I've got a counter question, mind that I don't wanna read the whole 15+ pages.

    but why do many religions try to convert people of other religions?


    I literally just answered this a few posts ago.

    Quote from Dechs Kaison
    I've often used the example of a favorite food. Let's say your favorite food is lobster, but it's something your friend hasn't ever eaten. You would want him to try it, because you think it's such a good food. You may not know how his taste buds react to it, but you don't want him to miss out on something you believe is so fantastic.


    The basic reason is that they genuinely believe they are looking out for the well being of the other person.

    I'm sure it's the same reason an atheist attempts to convert a theist. The view is likely based around improving the quality of life of the theist.
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  • #215
    Quote from Dechs Kaison
    Because friends care about each other, and a friend who is a Christian believes he would be helping you if he could convert you.

    I've often used the example of a favorite food. Let's say your favorite food is lobster, but it's something your friend hasn't ever eaten. You would want him to try it, because you think it's such a good food. You may not know how his taste buds react to it, but you don't want him to miss out on something you believe is so fantastic.

    The problem comes when your friend has already knows he doesn't like lobster, but for some reason you keep inviting him over for lobster dinner and suggesting he go to seafood buffets and always talking about how good lobster tastes. That certainly won't make him want to try lobster again.


    And I would want you to stop believing in nonsense fairy tales from a book written thousands of years ago by a bunch of people that didn't really know anything about anything. I would want you to embrace sound systems of logic and reason. I would want you to stop wasting your time worshiping something that is not there. I would want you to stop jumping to conclusions that suite you. And I would NEVER want anyone to attempt to build their moral character from reading the horrible tale of immorality and suffering that is the Holy Bible.

    But I don't say all that stuff to religious people because they would be offended by it. Anyone that knows me knows that an attempt to convert me, particularly to any form of Christianity is going to result in the christian being offended by my questions and positions (I'm not even mean or condescending about it and they get offended). Mostly I don't want you waste any more time than you already have praying and going to church. You can't convert me with words. It will require a very explicit act of God in my presence. Statistical anomalies are disqualified.

    Recently I had a guy, very religious fellow, who was telling me about the ghost that is his house. He has a bedroom up stairs that, when you turn on the light, doesn't turn on. He claims if you leave the room the right comes on and when you enter it goes off. I would not want anyone to be this kind of idiot. I hope his house doesn't burn down because he embraces supernatural entities instead of having an electrician look at the short in the wiring of that room.


    For you say that you would want to care for me, and befriend me, by trying to convert me is not so much offensive, as it's really really annoying. At least as annoying as you would find my telling you that you should stop praying to the magical sky faerie. The shame is that people will adjust their opinion of my moral code based on my belief in something for which there is no evidence.... The longer I live, the crazier it seems that people actually believe in magic.

    So see, while I don't try to convert people, I would actually have a good reason to try (from my point of view anyway). But I don't because I know how annoying it is when someone tries to convert you.
    Our belief is not a belief. Our principles are not a faith. We do not rely solely upon science and reason, because these are necessary rather than sufficient factors, but we distrust anything that contradicts science or outrages reason. We may differ on many things, but what we respect is free inquiry, openmindedness, and the pursuit of ideas for their own sake.

    ― Christopher Hitchens, God Is Not Great
  • #216
    Quote from Dechs Kaison
    I'm sure it's the same reason an atheist attempts to convert a theist. The view is likely based around improving the quality of life of the theist.


    It seems the proselytizing atheists I've met are trying to do so for neither theirs, nor the theist's own good, but a perceived belief that the sooner there is no religion, the sooner there will be no intolerance bound from preconceived and unverifiable mythology and the sooner society will move in a direction which "religion" (typically fundamentalist abrahamic if asked for an example) disapproves and they approve.

    Both vocal minorities miss the point entirely; and instead of living their lives as virtuous, stalwort examples of their beliefs, shout at eachother to put down their arms and cross the line that divides their ideals.
    Last edited by Irobeth: 10/29/2012 2:28:06 PM
  • #217
    Quote from Oldaughd
    So see, while I don't try to convert people, I would actually have a good reason to try (from my point of view anyway). But I don't because I know how annoying it is when someone tries to convert you.


    We're in much the same boat. I don't ever actively try to convert anyone; I was merely explaining the thought process behind someone who does. If people ask me about my beliefs, then I answer questions. I have never been the one to bring up the subject, because like you said, I know it's annoying and unwanted.

    And for the record, nothing I've seen you say on these boards has been offensive to me (not even calling the Bible a bunch of fairy tales).

    I actually find it odd how often I completely agree with your ideas.
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  • #218
    Quote from Dechs Kaison
    We're in much the same boat. I don't ever actively try to convert anyone; I was merely explaining the thought process behind someone who does. If people ask me about my beliefs, then I answer questions. I have never been the one to bring up the subject, because like you said, I know it's annoying and unwanted.

    And for the record, nothing I've seen you say on these boards has been offensive to me (not even calling the Bible a bunch of fairy tales).

    I actually find it odd how often I completely agree with your ideas.


    Posting on these boards has been....therapeutic I think. I was reeeeally offensive when I first started posting in the religion section. Now I'm much less interested in debating about the bible (it's been done to death). I'm more interested in why people believe what they believe than the actual beliefs themselves. The "why" is the good stuff imo.

    And while I wasn't trying to be offensive with my last post, I wasn't trying to NOT be either, which so often people find offensive (lolwut? and I'm glad you weren't offended, I'm sure there are people that were).

    ---------

    I had a long conversation with a friend of mine last night on this issue. He's one of the few religious people that will listen to me when religion pops up on conversation. He knows I'm a skeptic, but until this conversation he didn't really understand the "why". He's a black guy so as you might expect he's fairly religious (statistics, not racism).

    What I found interesting is that he was surprised that while he knew I didn't believe in any deity, he didn't know I had no supernatural beliefs of any kind. I wish more conversations like that could take place between more people without everyone getting pissed off. I think it help everyone if we talked more about they "why" and less about the "what".
    Our belief is not a belief. Our principles are not a faith. We do not rely solely upon science and reason, because these are necessary rather than sufficient factors, but we distrust anything that contradicts science or outrages reason. We may differ on many things, but what we respect is free inquiry, openmindedness, and the pursuit of ideas for their own sake.

    ― Christopher Hitchens, God Is Not Great
  • #219
    Quote from Oldaughd
    I wish more conversations like that could take place between more people without everyone getting pissed off. I think it help everyone if we talked more about they "why" and less about the "what".


    Abso-freaking-lutely agreed. Open, honest, and respectful discussion can only lead to good things, chief among which would be universal understanding of one another. It is so much easier to have compassion for someone if you understand where they come from and how they see things.

    I actually find much more enthralling discussion with my athiest friends than I do with my theist ones, and both of those are better than discussing beliefs with family (except my uncle Bill; he's good people). My mother in particular gets very on edge (approaching hostile) whenever I question any of the things she says or believes. She's one of the "The Universe is only 6000 years old" types. As much as I get a kick out of pissing my mom off, that kind of willful ignorance gets old.

    I can see where you're coming from when you say posting here has been therapeutic.
    If you wish to get a hold of me:
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    I moved my Primer. MTGS has Died to Removal.

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  • #220
    Quote from Oldaughd
    And I would want you to stop believing in nonsense fairy tales from a book written thousands of years ago by a bunch of people that didn't really know anything about anything. I would want you to embrace sound systems of logic and reason. I would want you to stop wasting your time worshiping something that is not there. I would want you to stop jumping to conclusions that suite you. And I would NEVER want anyone to attempt to build their moral character from reading the horrible tale of immorality and suffering that is the Holy Bible.

    But I don't say all that stuff to religious people because they would be offended by it. Anyone that knows me knows that an attempt to convert me, particularly to any form of Christianity is going to result in the christian being offended by my questions and positions (I'm not even mean or condescending about it and they get offended). Mostly I don't want you waste any more time than you already have praying and going to church. You can't convert me with words. It will require a very explicit act of God in my presence. Statistical anomalies are disqualified.

    Recently I had a guy, very religious fellow, who was telling me about the ghost that is his house. He has a bedroom up stairs that, when you turn on the light, doesn't turn on. He claims if you leave the room the right comes on and when you enter it goes off. I would not want anyone to be this kind of idiot. I hope his house doesn't burn down because he embraces supernatural entities instead of having an electrician look at the short in the wiring of that room.


    For you say that you would want to care for me, and befriend me, by trying to convert me is not so much offensive, as it's really really annoying. At least as annoying as you would find my telling you that you should stop praying to the magical sky faerie. The shame is that people will adjust their opinion of my moral code based on my belief in something for which there is no evidence.... The longer I live, the crazier it seems that people actually believe in magic.

    So see, while I don't try to convert people, I would actually have a good reason to try (from my point of view anyway). But I don't because I know how annoying it is when someone tries to convert you.

    Are you one of those people that believes that Jesus didn't exist?
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  • #221
    Quote from Dio
    Are you one of those people that believes that Jesus didn't exist?


    One of those people? Nice non-divisive way to begin a conversation..

    My reality revolves around that for which there is evidence. Jesus exists almost entirely in a book that is filled with garbage (imo) . I don't know if he existed. If he did most of what we think we know about him is suspect considering how much of it is plagerized from older religions. If any evidence outside of the bible surfaces, I'll be far less skeptical.
    Our belief is not a belief. Our principles are not a faith. We do not rely solely upon science and reason, because these are necessary rather than sufficient factors, but we distrust anything that contradicts science or outrages reason. We may differ on many things, but what we respect is free inquiry, openmindedness, and the pursuit of ideas for their own sake.

    ― Christopher Hitchens, God Is Not Great
  • #222
    Quote from Oldaughd
    One of those people? Nice non-divisive way to begin a conversation..

    My reality revolves around that for which there is evidence. Jesus exists almost entirely in a book that is filled with garbage (imo) . I don't know if he existed. If he did most of what we think we know about him is suspect considering how much of it is plagerized from older religions. If any evidence outside of the bible surfaces, I'll be far less skeptical.


    there is Roman text describing Jesus on a political level. So his existance is pretty widely assumed to be true but his divinity is what has been debated.
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  • #223
    Quote from Yorutenchi
    there is Roman text describing Jesus on a political level. So his existance is pretty widely assumed to be true but his divinity is what has been debated.


    What roman text is that?
    "The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully." -Richard Dawkins

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  • #224
    Quote from Oldaughd
    One of those people? Nice non-divisive way to begin a conversation..

    My reality revolves around that for which there is evidence. Jesus exists almost entirely in a book that is filled with garbage (imo) . I don't know if he existed. If he did most of what we think we know about him is suspect considering how much of it is plagerized from older religions. If any evidence outside of the bible surfaces, I'll be far less skeptical.

    Well, it doesn't help that you write off the Bible as a fairy tale without looking at the evidence. I'd point you to a bunch of stuff but you might be one of those people who will dismiss it just because it's a religious source. Jesus existed, that is a fact, but there are atheists out there who will distort the truth and try to say that he never existed because the "only proof is in the Bible". The only reason why most of the stuff about Jesus is in the Bible, is because everything that was known about Jesus at the time was put in the Bible. The New Testament is a compilation of letters and books.

    I actually do have a source for Jesus:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus
    You might be one of those people that dismisses wikipedia just because anyone can edit it, but it has tons of sources at the bottom, not to mention that articles are peer reviewed.

    And as for the "plagiarism", that's misinformation spread by garbage like Zeitgeist:
    http://zeitgeistchallenge.com/
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    What roman text is that?


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  • #225
    Quote from FoxBlade
    What roman text is that?


    I'm gonna be lazy and link you to a wiki. Look at the non-christian sources. There are more but Tacitus alludes to him and he is a Roman historian. There are other non-christian sources.

    I'm not christian but for the most part its fairly unanimous that he did exist. But was he the son of god or just a crazy jew going around telling people he was? How much was fabricated ect ect ect. I don't remember how to spell it but his real name was Yeshuwa (probably spelled wrong) for people's information. I'm not 100% sure why they changed it to Jesus in the bible....... Never been something I looked into.
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  • #226
    While I do think that there is a strong possibility that Jesus existed, there isn't any strong evidence to support him. The strongest evidence is all hearsay at best and none of it was during the life time of Jesus.

    Regarding Tacitus
    specifically:

    Tacitus and Jesus

    In his Annals, Cornelius Tacitus (55-120 CE) writes that Christians
    "derived their name and origin from Christ, who, in the reign of Tiberius, had suffered death by the sentence of the procurator Pontius Pilate" (Annals 15.44)
    Two questions arise concerning this passage:

    1. Did Tacitus really write this, or is this a later Christian interpolation?
    2. Is this really an independent confirmation of Jesus's story, or is Tacitus just repeating what some Christians told him?
    Some scholars believe the passage may be a Christian interpolation into the text. However, this is not at all certain, and unlike Josephus's Testimonium Flavianum, no clear evidence of textual tampering exists.
    The second objection is much more serious. Conceivably, Tacitus may just be repeating what he was told by Christians about Jesus. If so, then this passage merely confirms that there were Christians in Tacitus' time, and that they believed that Pilate killed Jesus during the reign of Tiberius. This would not be independent confirmation of Jesus's existence. If, on the other hand, Tacitus found this information in Roman imperial records (to which he had access) then that could constitute independent confirmation. There are good reasons to doubt that Tacitus is working from Roman records here, however. For one, he refers to Pilate by the wrong title (Pilate was a prefect, not a procurator). Secondly, he refers to Jesus by the religious title "Christos". Roman records would not have referred to Jesus by a Christian title, but presumably by his given name. Thus, there is excellent reason to suppose that Tacitus is merely repeating what Christians said about Jesus, and so can tell us nothing new about Jesus's historicity.
    "The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully." -Richard Dawkins

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  • #227
    Quote from Dio
    Well, it doesn't help that you write off the Bible as a fairy tale without looking at the evidence.


    What evidence?

    Quote from Dio
    I'd point you to a bunch of stuff but you might be one of those people who will dismiss it just because it's a religious source.


    Well that doesn't help your case much does it.

    Quote from Dio
    Jesus existed, that is a fact, but there are atheists out there who will distort the truth and try to say that he never existed because the "only proof is in the Bible".


    It's not a fact. There is the bible, and a couple of one liners from other histories. That is not conclusive evidence. Facts must have evidence associated with them to be facts. I think he probably existed. But it's not a fact that he did. You being taught that the bible is factual doesn't make it automatically so.

    Quote from Dio
    The only reason why most of the stuff about Jesus is in the Bible, is because everything that was known about Jesus at the time was put in the Bible. The New Testament is a compilation of letters and books./QUOTE]

    This would be fine if the bible were not filled with contradictions, omissions, alterations, mistranslations, and additions. It's not a reliable source of information. There is a reason it is not used in schools as a history book. There is the whole other issue of religions being more than willing to alter the record of the past as they fit.

    I actually do have a source for Jesus:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus
    You might be one of those people that dismisses wikipedia just because anyone can edit it, but it has tons of sources at the bottom, not to mention that articles are peer reviewed.

    And as for the "plagiarism", that's misinformation spread by garbage like Zeitgeist:
    http://zeitgeistchallenge.com/


    Josephus.


    I can just as easily throw a wiki back at you about Jesus Christ in comparative mythology. I think he probably existed, but it's not an established fact. And if he existed, his divine nature is almost certainly a fabrication, which leaves the text with little value outside of his teaching on morality which are mostly worth reading.
    Our belief is not a belief. Our principles are not a faith. We do not rely solely upon science and reason, because these are necessary rather than sufficient factors, but we distrust anything that contradicts science or outrages reason. We may differ on many things, but what we respect is free inquiry, openmindedness, and the pursuit of ideas for their own sake.

    ― Christopher Hitchens, God Is Not Great
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