If he plea guilty to sexual assault, that would make him register as a sex offender if I'm not mistaken. If that's true, wouldn't he be required NOT to be near a place where children could possibly be around? What if, and I'm not saying it would, something happened at an event and they blamed Zach for it? With his background, this would be a media circus and something WOTC would very much like to avoid.
Except by trying to make people "feel safe" in dealing with sexual assault, Wizards is basically treating women like children into thinking that they are incapable of interacting with those who have clearly served their time and have made every effort to better their lives.
What do you mean "except"? What you've written doesn't seem to be an argument against what I wrote, it seems to an entirely new and unrelated line of argument.
I can't imagine how you read Wizards' statement as saying that women are incapable of interacting with sex offenders. Clearly that's not true, and obviously everyone at Wizards knows that's not true. It's a complete strawman.
If he plea guilty to sexual assault, that would make him register as a sex offender if I'm not mistaken. If that's true, wouldn't he be required NOT to be near a place where children could possibly be around? What if, and I'm not saying it would, something happened at an event and they blamed Zach for it? With his background, this would be a media circus and something WOTC would very much like to avoid.
Don't you see that the whole aim of Moderators is to narrow the range of thought? In the end we shall make infractions literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it. Every concept that can ever be needed, will be expressed by exactly one word, with its meaning rigidly defined and all its subsidiary meanings rubbed out and forgotten.
Because the people who SJWd Zach Jesse really dont care about justice, Drew Levin just wanted to destroy the dude and he knew exactly how to get a mob riled up.
What is SJW? From reading this part of the forum I feel like I'm new to the internet tbh.
If he plea guilty to sexual assault, that would make him register as a sex offender if I'm not mistaken. If that's true, wouldn't he be required NOT to be near a place where children could possibly be around? What if, and I'm not saying it would, something happened at an event and they blamed Zach for it? With his background, this would be a media circus and something WOTC would very much like to avoid.
While he is registered as a sex offender (you can look his registration up on the Virginia site), I think only offenses dealing with minors have child proximity restrictions, at least in Virginia. Surely if he had those restrictions he would have been arrested for going to magic events long ago.
It is kind of terrible how much sympathy a rich white rapist can get. It does not do much to give me faith in the mtg community.
And here we see the nature of the beast, why should it matter his race or economic status?
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Don't you see that the whole aim of Moderators is to narrow the range of thought? In the end we shall make infractions literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it. Every concept that can ever be needed, will be expressed by exactly one word, with its meaning rigidly defined and all its subsidiary meanings rubbed out and forgotten.
He told people the truth, Zack Jesse is a rapist who managed to face zero real consequences for raping someone. Zack Jesse then went on to show no signs of remorse for his actions. Really anyone want to find me one point where Zack showed any sign on contrition for his actions? If he can't do that he is not someone who should be considered rehabilitated or someone any company would want to associate them selves with.
It is kind of terrible how much sympathy a rich white rapist can get. It does not do much to give me faith in the mtg community.
Have you met him, or are you just basing that on one post that he made?
It is kind of terrible how much sympathy a rich white rapist can get. It does not do much to give me faith in the mtg community.
And here we see the nature of the beast, why should it matter his race or economic status?
I think what the poster is saying is that it shouldn't matter, and yet it seems unlikely that someone who could not afford a high-priced lawyer would have received such a generous plea bargain, and the differences in racial sentencing are well-known.
It is kind of terrible how much sympathy a rich white rapist can get. It does not do much to give me faith in the mtg community.
And here we see the nature of the beast, why should it matter his race or economic status?
I think what the poster is saying is that it shouldn't matter, and yet it seems unlikely that someone who could not afford a high-priced lawyer would have received such a generous plea bargain, and the differences in racial sentencing are well-known.
The victim told the prosecutor to not bury him in jail time. All this other stuff is insanely off topic.
Because the people who SJWd Zach Jesse really dont care about justice, Drew Levin just wanted to destroy the dude and he knew exactly how to get a mob riled up.
What is SJW? From reading this part of the forum I feel like I'm new to the internet tbh.
SJW is short for social justice warrior, people who are extremely left-wing that constantly complain about social justice issues. They do this mainly by launching witch hunts to shame individuals and other groups that don't perfectly conform with their views, or by circlejerking on sites like Tumblr.
A Guy Who Might Post is a perfect example of a SJW. Note how he attacks Zach's race and socioeconomic status as the basis for why he should stay banned from Magic. This is typically how SJWs argue; basically they believe that straight, white males are the absolute scum of the earth. You cannot reason with a SJW ever. Don't even try it.
Because Wizards is a business that is trying to maintain an appearance of being family-friendly, and in which Zach would be appearing in publicly promoted tournaments. I doubt the neighborhood book club, or most other organizations or companies Zach would interact with would have similar concerns.
Why not? Nobody likes to be seen as a place that's "condoning rape" or "supporting rapists" or whatever. My point is that people need to stop viewing it as that. WoTC are not supporting drug-dealing by not banning Chapin, either. It's simply about being true to what you believe. If we think that people who commit crimes should not be punished forever we must act accordingly. If we want them to have a second chance, WE must be willing to give it to them. Everything else is pure hypocrisy and egoism.
For those of you who are think this guy should be banned have you ever typed your adress into http://www.nsopw.gov/en-US/Search/Verification? I did a 3 mile radius search and got the following error message: "Florida: Too many matching offenders. Refine your search criteria."
My point is whether this guy is banned or not Magic tournaments and even FNMs will still have plenty of people like him and plenty of people that are worse (I know because I've met some of them like the guy who sells drugs to kids at FNM).
Sure the guy sounds like a smooth talker and he is obviously doing community service for the advancement of his own personal image, but he hasn't charged with any crimes at a magic related event, been accused of cheated or been found to have broken any other rules. There is absolutely no reason this one person should be banned simply because his history out of the history of thousands of other players became public. Unless wizards takes a firm and consistent stance on this issue and banns all sex offenders I am very disappointed (I would like to add that it is ridiculously easy to become a sex offender, All you have to do is take a piss on the side of the road and be male).
I believe that the real reason for this banning has nothing to do with public safety and everything to do with public opinion. Female gamers are an expanding demographic and many of these gamers don't feel comfortable in traditional gaming spaces. To address this Wizards has been aggressively marketing Magic the gathering as a female friendly game. Some example you may have noticed are a lager representation of female characters, as well as trans and gender queer characters, less sexually provocative artwork of females (while more male heart throbs), and paying female actors to participate in demonstrations of magic on youtube. Wizards has put a lot of effort money and time into attracting these new consumers into a game that is often seen as hostile to females and they banned this man because his existence threatened their new "image". I find it morally reprehensible, though not surprising, that an individual would be scapegoated for an entire demographic just to further the marketing of Hasbro.
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The victim told the prosecutor to not bury him in jail time. All this other stuff is insanely off topic.
Sure, but it is also the case that this was not the first plea bargain that was offered:
In April of 2004, I accepted a plea bargain offered by the prosecutor in this case. I had rejected his previous offers; however, I ultimately accepted this offer at the advice of my attorney who encouraged me to do so in order to mitigate the risk that my charges entailed.
Had he not had a great attorney, he may have had to accept a worse plea, or even face the full potential life sentence he was originally charged with (a charge which is attorney felt he had a real chance of being convicted on, according to the article).
Why not? Nobody likes to be seen as a place that's "condoning rape" or "supporting rapists" or whatever. My point is that people need to stop viewing it as that. WoTC are not supporting drug-dealing by not banning Chapin, either. It's simply about being true to what you believe. If we think that people who commit crimes should not be punished forever we must act accordingly. If we want them to have a second chance, WE must be willing to give it to them. Everything else is pure hypocrisy and egoism.
I don't think "condoning rape" or "supporting rapists" are remotely fair characterizations of what Wizards is trying to avoid. Absolutely no one believes that Wizards would be condoning rape if they didn't ban Zach.
A second chance is not the same as a clean slate. When you commit a terrible crime, we don't all wipe our memories after a certain number of years.
If Wizards seriously believe that Jesse has a probability of committing another rape that is greater than the average (which is sadly nonzero), I think they have a responsibility to ban him.
If they believe that him succeeding professionally at Magic will injure their bottom line, do they have a responsibility to their shareholders to ban him?
I'm bemused by the idea that punitive punishment is somehow an SJW ( ) thing. At least in New Zealand, the people who want more and harsher punishments are from the opposite end of the political spectrum.
SJW means "Social Justice Warrior" and it has nothing to do with being left-wing and everything with being part of an electronic lynch-mob
I'm sure Gamergate would be surprised to know that they are the SJWs they rail against. It is not my impression that 'electronic lynch-mob' is the definition of SJW, given the way I have seen the term used.
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SJW is short for social justice warrior, people who are extremely left-wing that constantly complain about social justice issues. They do this mainly by launching witch hunts to shame individuals and other groups that don't perfectly conform with their views, or by circlejerking on sites like Tumblr.
A Guy Who Might Post is a perfect example of a SJW. Note how he attacks Zach's race and socioeconomic status as the basis for why he should stay banned from Magic. This is typically how SJWs argue; basically they believe that straight, white males are the absolute scum of the earth. You cannot reason with a SJW ever. Don't even try it.
Well, okay, thanks. That stuff is kinda new to me.
Then I can understand why people ignore the drug case, to some extent at least. Thank you.
I should also add that if Zach Jesse's criminal offenses were something like theft or beating up another man, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Fair, but if his crime was raping an unconcious man we certainly would be having this conversation. Maybe some people would have different opinions on it, but that's their hypocrisy, and the hypocrisy of other's shouldn't change how we evaluate a situation.
Ultimately, if I decide I'm going to throw a neighborhood party, I don't have to invite the rapist from down the street. Even if I don't mind him being there, I recognize it might make my guests uncomfortable, and I want everyone to have a good time. So sorry rapist, you're not invited.
This is essentially what WOTC is doing with this decision, and:
1. I understand why they did it.
2. I have little to no sympathy for Zach.
3. I do think they need to address this directly; re Chapin and every other felon that has a DCI membership (and there are numerous)
Except by trying to make people "feel safe" in dealing with sexual assault, Wizards is basically treating women like children into thinking that they are incapable of interacting with those who have clearly served their time and have made every effort to better their lives.
What do you mean "except"? What you've written doesn't seem to be an argument against what I wrote, it seems to an entirely new and unrelated line of argument.
I can't imagine how you read Wizards' statement as saying that women are incapable of interacting with sex offenders. Clearly that's not true, and obviously everyone at Wizards knows that's not true. It's a complete strawman.
It's not a strawman. I pointed out the double standard initially because Wizards is going the SJW route of trying to make "safe spaces" for women in Magic where there would be absolutely no such thing for any other equally violent crime. I've got news for you buddy, sexual assault isn't the only bad crime out there. A man beating another man in assault is also a horrible crime, but because it doesn't fit the SJW narrative there will be no witch hunts started for individuals that served time for assault.
This transposes into the Chapin issue as well. Wizards needs to either ban Chapin or unban Jesse. They can't have what they have right now without looking like huge hypocrites.
Fair, but if his crime was raping an unconcious man we certainly would be having this conversation. Maybe some people would have different opinions on it, but that's their hypocrisy, and the hypocrisy of other's shouldn't change how we evaluate a situation.
Ultimately, if I decide I'm going to throw a neighborhood party, I don't have to invite the rapist from down the street. Even if I don't mind him being there, I recognize it might make my guests uncomfortable, and I want everyone to have a good time. So sorry rapist, you're not invited.
This is essentially what WOTC is doing with this decision, and:
1. I understand why they did it.
2. I have little to no sympathy for Zach.
3. I do think they need to address this directly; re Chapin and every other felon that has a DCI membership (and there are numerous)
So do you believe Chapin should be banned for life?
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Don't you see that the whole aim of Moderators is to narrow the range of thought? In the end we shall make infractions literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it. Every concept that can ever be needed, will be expressed by exactly one word, with its meaning rigidly defined and all its subsidiary meanings rubbed out and forgotten.
It's not a strawman. I pointed out the double standard initially because Wizards is going the SJW route of trying to make "safe spaces" for women in Magic where there would be absolutely no such thing for any other equally violent crime. I've got news for you buddy, sexual assault isn't the only bad crime out there. A man beating another man in assault is also a horrible crime, but because it doesn't fit the SJW narrative there will be no witch hunts started for individuals that served time for assault.
Wow! That is news to me. Here I thought that rape is the only bad thing in the world! Golly gee gosh!
I would be absolutely shocked if Wizards was A-OK with having a convicted murderer in their tournaments.
This transposes into the Chapin issue as well. Wizards needs to either ban Chapin or unban Jesse. They can't have what they have right now without looking like huge hypocrites.
There is no hypocrisy here. Chapin and Jesse committed completely different crimes. A double standard would be if Chapin also raped someone. There is no need to treat ecstasy trafficking and sexual battery the same way.
There is no hypocrisy here. Chapin and Jesse committed completely different crimes. A double standard would be if Chapin also raped someone. There is no need to treat ecstasy trafficking and sexual battery the same way.
Oh no, there is a guy who raped someone once! Let's ban him from everywhere!
What, someone ruined a lot of other lives with drugs? Oh don't mind it, those are completely different crimes, let's focus our attention onto the guy who ruined only one!
Yes, there are two completely different crimes, exept the drug one is a lot worse, since it messes with a lot of people, not just ONE.
Oh no, there is a guy who raped someone once! Let's ban him from everywhere!
What, someone ruined a lot of other lives with drugs? Oh don't mind it, those are completely different crimes, let's focus our attention onto the guy who ruined only one!
Yes, I do think that Jesse's crime was worse than Chapin's crime. I've already said as much.
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What do you mean "except"? What you've written doesn't seem to be an argument against what I wrote, it seems to an entirely new and unrelated line of argument.
I can't imagine how you read Wizards' statement as saying that women are incapable of interacting with sex offenders. Clearly that's not true, and obviously everyone at Wizards knows that's not true. It's a complete strawman.
Better ban him from the grocery store too.
Really?
Also when was ectasy considered a "soft drug"
Also yeah it was ectasy:
Heres the case.
http://www.leagle.com/decision/2002831231FSupp2d600_1778
What is SJW? From reading this part of the forum I feel like I'm new to the internet tbh.
While he is registered as a sex offender (you can look his registration up on the Virginia site), I think only offenses dealing with minors have child proximity restrictions, at least in Virginia. Surely if he had those restrictions he would have been arrested for going to magic events long ago.
And here we see the nature of the beast, why should it matter his race or economic status?
Have you met him, or are you just basing that on one post that he made?
Since he is not the only one who says that, I doubt that it has no meaning.
I think what the poster is saying is that it shouldn't matter, and yet it seems unlikely that someone who could not afford a high-priced lawyer would have received such a generous plea bargain, and the differences in racial sentencing are well-known.
SJW means "Social Justice Warrior" and it has nothing to do with being left-wing and everything with being part of an electronic lynch-mob.
The victim told the prosecutor to not bury him in jail time. All this other stuff is insanely off topic.
SJW is short for social justice warrior, people who are extremely left-wing that constantly complain about social justice issues. They do this mainly by launching witch hunts to shame individuals and other groups that don't perfectly conform with their views, or by circlejerking on sites like Tumblr.
A Guy Who Might Post is a perfect example of a SJW. Note how he attacks Zach's race and socioeconomic status as the basis for why he should stay banned from Magic. This is typically how SJWs argue; basically they believe that straight, white males are the absolute scum of the earth. You cannot reason with a SJW ever. Don't even try it.
Why not? Nobody likes to be seen as a place that's "condoning rape" or "supporting rapists" or whatever. My point is that people need to stop viewing it as that. WoTC are not supporting drug-dealing by not banning Chapin, either. It's simply about being true to what you believe. If we think that people who commit crimes should not be punished forever we must act accordingly. If we want them to have a second chance, WE must be willing to give it to them. Everything else is pure hypocrisy and egoism.
My point is whether this guy is banned or not Magic tournaments and even FNMs will still have plenty of people like him and plenty of people that are worse (I know because I've met some of them like the guy who sells drugs to kids at FNM).
Sure the guy sounds like a smooth talker and he is obviously doing community service for the advancement of his own personal image, but he hasn't charged with any crimes at a magic related event, been accused of cheated or been found to have broken any other rules. There is absolutely no reason this one person should be banned simply because his history out of the history of thousands of other players became public. Unless wizards takes a firm and consistent stance on this issue and banns all sex offenders I am very disappointed (I would like to add that it is ridiculously easy to become a sex offender, All you have to do is take a piss on the side of the road and be male).
I believe that the real reason for this banning has nothing to do with public safety and everything to do with public opinion. Female gamers are an expanding demographic and many of these gamers don't feel comfortable in traditional gaming spaces. To address this Wizards has been aggressively marketing Magic the gathering as a female friendly game. Some example you may have noticed are a lager representation of female characters, as well as trans and gender queer characters, less sexually provocative artwork of females (while more male heart throbs), and paying female actors to participate in demonstrations of magic on youtube. Wizards has put a lot of effort money and time into attracting these new consumers into a game that is often seen as hostile to females and they banned this man because his existence threatened their new "image". I find it morally reprehensible, though not surprising, that an individual would be scapegoated for an entire demographic just to further the marketing of Hasbro.
Sure, but it is also the case that this was not the first plea bargain that was offered:
Had he not had a great attorney, he may have had to accept a worse plea, or even face the full potential life sentence he was originally charged with (a charge which is attorney felt he had a real chance of being convicted on, according to the article).
I don't think "condoning rape" or "supporting rapists" are remotely fair characterizations of what Wizards is trying to avoid. Absolutely no one believes that Wizards would be condoning rape if they didn't ban Zach.
A second chance is not the same as a clean slate. When you commit a terrible crime, we don't all wipe our memories after a certain number of years.
If they believe that him succeeding professionally at Magic will injure their bottom line, do they have a responsibility to their shareholders to ban him?
I'm bemused by the idea that punitive punishment is somehow an SJW ( ) thing. At least in New Zealand, the people who want more and harsher punishments are from the opposite end of the political spectrum.
I'm sure Gamergate would be surprised to know that they are the SJWs they rail against. It is not my impression that 'electronic lynch-mob' is the definition of SJW, given the way I have seen the term used.
Well, okay, thanks. That stuff is kinda new to me.
Then I can understand why people ignore the drug case, to some extent at least. Thank you.
Fair, but if his crime was raping an unconcious man we certainly would be having this conversation. Maybe some people would have different opinions on it, but that's their hypocrisy, and the hypocrisy of other's shouldn't change how we evaluate a situation.
Ultimately, if I decide I'm going to throw a neighborhood party, I don't have to invite the rapist from down the street. Even if I don't mind him being there, I recognize it might make my guests uncomfortable, and I want everyone to have a good time. So sorry rapist, you're not invited.
This is essentially what WOTC is doing with this decision, and:
1. I understand why they did it.
2. I have little to no sympathy for Zach.
3. I do think they need to address this directly; re Chapin and every other felon that has a DCI membership (and there are numerous)
It's not a strawman. I pointed out the double standard initially because Wizards is going the SJW route of trying to make "safe spaces" for women in Magic where there would be absolutely no such thing for any other equally violent crime. I've got news for you buddy, sexual assault isn't the only bad crime out there. A man beating another man in assault is also a horrible crime, but because it doesn't fit the SJW narrative there will be no witch hunts started for individuals that served time for assault.
This transposes into the Chapin issue as well. Wizards needs to either ban Chapin or unban Jesse. They can't have what they have right now without looking like huge hypocrites.
So do you believe Chapin should be banned for life?
Wow! That is news to me. Here I thought that rape is the only bad thing in the world! Golly gee gosh!
I would be absolutely shocked if Wizards was A-OK with having a convicted murderer in their tournaments.
There is no hypocrisy here. Chapin and Jesse committed completely different crimes. A double standard would be if Chapin also raped someone. There is no need to treat ecstasy trafficking and sexual battery the same way.
Oh no, there is a guy who raped someone once! Let's ban him from everywhere!
What, someone ruined a lot of other lives with drugs? Oh don't mind it, those are completely different crimes, let's focus our attention onto the guy who ruined only one!
Yes, there are two completely different crimes, exept the drug one is a lot worse, since it messes with a lot of people, not just ONE.
Yes, I do think that Jesse's crime was worse than Chapin's crime. I've already said as much.