This is a debate and the theme is the morality of asking a prenup agreement. Arguments such as "choose a wife that doesn't care about money" or "you shouldn't care about money" does not contribute to the debate because the moral question exist for all kind of people including the ones that wants to marry selfish and materialistic women and people who cares about money. It's precisely because people are entitled to elect the qualities their seek in their partners that it is unfair to narrow down the debate to one kind of person.
Not to mention everyone already has a de facto prenup. It's called Divorce Law. So all a prenup is saying is that "Hey, I don't like the rules the state is imposing on us. Let's draft our own." This is especially important for people who've already been divorced, people who have children by other parents, etc.
Honestly, I'm just glad I married a rational woman who understands that the future is in flux, and that agreeing to things while we're in love and happy is better than, god forbid, something happens and we duke it out at our most bitter and spiteful. We discussed the prenup, and ended up deciding against it for financial reasons and because first marriages generally don't need it. If you haven't had a serious talk about divorce with your significant other, you may really want to consider it. It's right up there with money, kids, politics and religion, because it seriously affects the disposition of those first two if anything happens. You should 'trust' that you actually have no freaking clue how either of your would react in a break-up, and they're certainly not known for being civil. One of the biggest mistakes couples make is they don't communicate about these things in advance, or really communicate about anything substantial until after the marriage. If even discussing a prenup seriously hurts your relationship (or you think it would), you really need to think about your relationship and WHY it's an issue.
But what about this? There's an awful lot of blanket recommendations that Jay13x is making here. Isn't this objectionable as well?
And Jay, everything else you mention that should be discussed is important because you want to be on the same page about those things for a successful marriage (or at least come up with a healthy compromise). Discussing divorce is the opposite; it is planning for an unsuccessful marriage. Don't you think that's a bit relevant?
Asking your future spouse for a prenup is like asking about the severance package at a job interview. It may seem to you like you are just being responsible and planning for every eventuality, but to the person you are asking it may come across like you are just planning for your inevitable escape.
Asking your future spouse for a prenup is like asking about the severance package at a job interview. It may seem to you like you are just being responsible and planning for every eventuality, but to the person you are asking it may come across like you are just planning for your inevitable escape.
It also shows a seriousness with the situation and being very specific with time. Relationships are a key portion to humans and they involve risk. It also reminds people to "think" about before they decide to cheat and so forth. Why do people sign stupid piddly things like honor agreements in school? Simple, because it reinforces a standard. You signed something, you gave your word and gave yourself over to something.
When you're not blind to failure, it also shows that the person involved can discuss intimate and difficult problems early in the marriage and also proves to both that they can work things out in the future.
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Life is a beautiful engineer, yet a brutal scientist.
If standing up in front of all your family and friends and swearing you're in it to the death doesn't get that point across, I don't think signing a prenup is going to help you.
If standing up in front of all your family and friends and swearing you're in it to the death doesn't get that point across, I don't think signing a prenup is going to help you.
Serial marriages, are common in the US because weddings and "getting married" are a big thing. Perhaps, the root of the discussion is not the prenup but rather the frequency and intensity by which we as a culture are a part of a throwaway culture with regard to weddings and marriages. Perhaps, the change in the marriage rate over time for young persons also reflects the damage that divorce causes and makes people reassess marriage itself as an institution going from a good to a novelty.
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Life is a beautiful engineer, yet a brutal scientist.
I'm not saying "don't get a pre-nup"; I'm saying "I'd never get a pre-nup, and here's why."
I'm not the kind of person who approaches interpersonal relationships using cost-benefit analysis. Personally, I find that depressing, cold, and a little sad. But that's just me. You are free to approach your interpersonal relationships however you see fit. But, from my personal experience, I would see a potential spouse pushing for a pre-nup as a sign that she didn't possess the qualities that I'm looking for in a mate. I want someone who's unselfish and unmaterialistic. You may not, and that's fine. I'd never tell anyone who to live their life, trust me. I was just answering the OP's question, using my own individual outlook and experience as a source. So everyone can relax.
I had this discussion with my ex-fiance when I proposed to him. At the time I was making bank and he was at poverty level wages because the housing market was still shaky and he wasn't getting work. I looked into a making something similar to an Islamic prenup where he would get a certain amount of money if I initiated the divorce with a whole slew of conditions, and he still wouldn't agree to it.
I've known probably 5-10 lawyers during my life, including 4 that worked in family law, and all of them advised to have a prenup because a couple of them had to call the cops during their stint. Things get bad when dividing up assets.
And Jay, everything else you mention that should be discussed is important because you want to be on the same page about those things for a successful marriage (or at least come up with a healthy compromise). Discussing divorce is the opposite; it is planning for an unsuccessful marriage. Don't you think that's a bit relevant?
Asking your future spouse for a prenup is like asking about the severance package at a job interview. It may seem to you like you are just being responsible and planning for every eventuality, but to the person you are asking it may come across like you are just planning for your inevitable escape.
Why would you ever want to marry someone who thought, after going through the trouble of proposing to them and planning a marriage, that you're planning your escape? How insecure does a human being need to be while planning a wedding to think their partner doesn't trust or love them? You don't get in a car with someone and consider whether or not clicking on your seatbelt will tell them you don't trust them as a driver. If the driver turned to you and said 'Don't you trust me?!? Then why do you want to wear a seatbelt! I'm an excellent driver!' you would legitimately think they're crazy and get out of the car. How your partner reacts to wanting to plan for these things will tell you a lot about them, and about how much you can potentially rely on them when things are actually tough rather than easy like when you're dating or engaged.
Now, prenups aren't right for every situation, but the idea of a prenup isn't inherently bad. It's especially important when one or both of you have been divorced before or have a significant difference in income or potential inheritance.
Also, that analogy doesn't work, unless you're just meeting the person you're planning to marry in the immediate future. In which case discussing prenups is an excellent idea, but one the parents arranging your wedding will probably iron out before the wedding goes forward. This is what actually happens in most places with arranged marriages (and legal divorce).
I've known probably 5-10 lawyers during my life, including 4 that worked in family law, and all of them advised to have a prenup because a couple of them had to call the cops during their stint. Things get bad when dividing up assets.
Exactly. You just never know, no one ever thinks it will be them that gets divorced, but it inevitably happens anyway. You want to figure this crap out while you're in love and want to be fair rather than when you want to choke the life out of each other.
And if you don't get divorced? You never need to worry about it! Just sign it before the wedding and forget about it.
After reading everyone's responses, I am, not certain what my opinion of this matter is.
If I ever get married, I am not certain if I should sign a pre-nuptial agreement; on one hand, signing one would indicate that I have little confidence that the marriage shall endure for a long time, and I have no intention of getting married unless I am certain that it shall last for a long time; but, on the other hand, signing one would help to reduce the difficulty and drama in the chance that the marriage does not work.
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“Those who would trade their freedoms for security will have neither.”-Benjamin Franklin
“When the people fear the government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”-Thomas Jefferson
“A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of its user.”-Theodore Roosevelt
“Patriotism means to stand by one's country; it does not mean to stand by one's president.”-Theodore Roosevelt
After reading everyone's responses, I am, not certain what my opinion of this matter is.
If I ever get married, I am not certain if I should sign a pre-nuptial agreement; on one hand, signing one would indicate that I have little confidence that the marriage shall endure for a long time, and I have no intention of getting married unless I am certain that it shall last for a long time; but, on the other hand, signing one would help to reduce the difficulty and drama in the chance that the marriage does not work.
For a first marriage, a prenup is rarely necessary for anyone.
But again, a prenup doesn't say anything about what you think of the marriage. It's an acknowledgement that things change, and a way to protect you and your loved one from each other should things go south.
I would not sign one,. If my wife gets to the stage where she feels so little for me that she is willing to entertain thoughts of leaving then I really want to give her no reason not to leave. I'm a serial monogamist at heart so even if my wife leaves me I would still probably care greatly for her. If I can then support her in any way by giving her some of my money then so be it,.
I would not sign one,. If my wife gets to the stage where she feels so little for me that she is willing to entertain thoughts of leaving then I really want to give her no reason not to leave. I'm a serial monogamist at heart so even if my wife leaves me I would still probably care greatly for her. If I can then support her in any way by giving her some of my money then so be it,.
You can structure prenups in many different ways. If you want to write a prenup that financially rewards your wife for leaving you, that's an option.
Sure, that's reasonable. Thank you for clearing that up for me. But what about this? There's an awful lot of blanket recommendations that Jay13x is making here. Isn't this objectionable as well?
And Jay, everything else you mention that should be discussed is important because you want to be on the same page about those things for a successful marriage (or at least come up with a healthy compromise). Discussing divorce is the opposite; it is planning for an unsuccessful marriage. Don't you think that's a bit relevant?
Asking your future spouse for a prenup is like asking about the severance package at a job interview. It may seem to you like you are just being responsible and planning for every eventuality, but to the person you are asking it may come across like you are just planning for your inevitable escape.
It also shows a seriousness with the situation and being very specific with time. Relationships are a key portion to humans and they involve risk. It also reminds people to "think" about before they decide to cheat and so forth. Why do people sign stupid piddly things like honor agreements in school? Simple, because it reinforces a standard. You signed something, you gave your word and gave yourself over to something.
When you're not blind to failure, it also shows that the person involved can discuss intimate and difficult problems early in the marriage and also proves to both that they can work things out in the future.
Modern
Commander
Cube
<a href="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-lists/588020-unpowered-themed-enchantment-an-enchanted-evening">An Enchanted Evening Cube </a>
Serial marriages, are common in the US because weddings and "getting married" are a big thing. Perhaps, the root of the discussion is not the prenup but rather the frequency and intensity by which we as a culture are a part of a throwaway culture with regard to weddings and marriages. Perhaps, the change in the marriage rate over time for young persons also reflects the damage that divorce causes and makes people reassess marriage itself as an institution going from a good to a novelty.
Modern
Commander
Cube
<a href="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-lists/588020-unpowered-themed-enchantment-an-enchanted-evening">An Enchanted Evening Cube </a>
I'm not the kind of person who approaches interpersonal relationships using cost-benefit analysis. Personally, I find that depressing, cold, and a little sad. But that's just me. You are free to approach your interpersonal relationships however you see fit. But, from my personal experience, I would see a potential spouse pushing for a pre-nup as a sign that she didn't possess the qualities that I'm looking for in a mate. I want someone who's unselfish and unmaterialistic. You may not, and that's fine. I'd never tell anyone who to live their life, trust me. I was just answering the OP's question, using my own individual outlook and experience as a source. So everyone can relax.
Modern: GW Hatebears/midrange, WGU Knightfall/evolution midrange stuff
Standard: nope
Legacy: W Death & Taxes
EDH (not Commander!): W Avacyn, Angel of Hope, GR Ruric Thar, the Unbowed, WGB Anafenza, the Foremost, WU Hanna, Ship's Navigator
I've known probably 5-10 lawyers during my life, including 4 that worked in family law, and all of them advised to have a prenup because a couple of them had to call the cops during their stint. Things get bad when dividing up assets.
Why would you ever want to marry someone who thought, after going through the trouble of proposing to them and planning a marriage, that you're planning your escape? How insecure does a human being need to be while planning a wedding to think their partner doesn't trust or love them? You don't get in a car with someone and consider whether or not clicking on your seatbelt will tell them you don't trust them as a driver. If the driver turned to you and said 'Don't you trust me?!? Then why do you want to wear a seatbelt! I'm an excellent driver!' you would legitimately think they're crazy and get out of the car. How your partner reacts to wanting to plan for these things will tell you a lot about them, and about how much you can potentially rely on them when things are actually tough rather than easy like when you're dating or engaged.
Now, prenups aren't right for every situation, but the idea of a prenup isn't inherently bad. It's especially important when one or both of you have been divorced before or have a significant difference in income or potential inheritance.
Also, that analogy doesn't work, unless you're just meeting the person you're planning to marry in the immediate future. In which case discussing prenups is an excellent idea, but one the parents arranging your wedding will probably iron out before the wedding goes forward. This is what actually happens in most places with arranged marriages (and legal divorce).
Exactly. You just never know, no one ever thinks it will be them that gets divorced, but it inevitably happens anyway. You want to figure this crap out while you're in love and want to be fair rather than when you want to choke the life out of each other.
And if you don't get divorced? You never need to worry about it! Just sign it before the wedding and forget about it.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
If I ever get married, I am not certain if I should sign a pre-nuptial agreement; on one hand, signing one would indicate that I have little confidence that the marriage shall endure for a long time, and I have no intention of getting married unless I am certain that it shall last for a long time; but, on the other hand, signing one would help to reduce the difficulty and drama in the chance that the marriage does not work.
“When the people fear the government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”-Thomas Jefferson
“A vote is like a rifle; its usefulness depends upon the character of its user.”-Theodore Roosevelt
“Patriotism means to stand by one's country; it does not mean to stand by one's president.”-Theodore Roosevelt
For a first marriage, a prenup is rarely necessary for anyone.
But again, a prenup doesn't say anything about what you think of the marriage. It's an acknowledgement that things change, and a way to protect you and your loved one from each other should things go south.
TerribleBad at Magic since 1998.A Vorthos Guide to Magic Story | Twitter | Tumblr
[Primer] Krenko | Azor | Kess | Zacama | Kumena | Sram | The Ur-Dragon | Edgar Markov | Daretti | Marath
You can structure prenups in many different ways. If you want to write a prenup that financially rewards your wife for leaving you, that's an option.