I'd still like to know what laws but I bet I never get an answer to this....maybe because the prime target you could point towards is one championed, at least in part, by socialist. The heavy lobbying agasint that law did not stop it from being passed.
The largest expansion of government in the history of the country was lobbied against extensively using hundred of millions of dollars.....
Oh so they were spending money? I wonder why they'd do that if it has no impact!
You keep spamming articles about lobbying efforts. I can point to just as many where despite all the money in the world, it failed to accomplish anything.
So if you can provide examples at 1 to 1 that means, at best, it works half the time? So half the time people with no money have no value?
Do you really think you are proving something here with your spam?
I do. Not to you, obviously, you're just trolling. But I assume any observer who reads your "Why are you so jealous!?" and "NEWS ARTICLES SUPPORTING YOU ARE SPAM" against my "Click here for evidence" is going to side with me.
FINGERS CROSSED FOR EVIDENCE SAVING THE DAY!
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What's the big deal? You could have played multiple Righteous Avengers for years now.
While I somewhat agree with you about your point Owl, even I don't pay to read a link.
There are plenty of articles and sources you can link besides Time magazine, a few op-ed's, or whatever.
Billy also has a point though.
While money certainly talks, there are just as many wealthy special interest groups "supposedly" championing the cause of the poor huddled masses that lobby Washington.
They actually succeed about as often as the groups lobbying for the interests of fat cats.
It really depends on what congress they're buying - there is an ebb and a flow. Just look at the Bush era congressional actions vs. the Clinton era congressional actions.
Some years it's very good for the rich, some years it's not so good for the rich.
However, do not let this fool anyone. It's never a good year for the poor.
There is only one party in this country today, and that's the Power Party. They win every election, and they pass every law they want to pass.
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Thanks to Xenphire @ Inkfox for the amazing new sig
“Thus strangely are our souls constructed, and by slight ligaments
are we bound to prosperity and ruin.”
― Mary Shelley, Frankenstein
Lobby exists - please elaborate why it is a flaw inherent of rich people and not a flaw of the government and institutions we have.
The fact that not all lobby are done for financial reasons and financial elites and the fact that not all financial elites engage in lobby is enough for us to consider a issue of the government and not a issue of elites merely existing.
Lobby exists - please elaborate why it is a flaw inherent of rich people and not a flaw of the government and institutions we have.
The fact that not all lobby are done for financial reasons and financial elites and the fact that not all financial elites engage in lobby is enough for us to consider a issue of the government and not a issue of elites merely existing.
It would be hard to find an instance where lobbying in America is not done for financial reasons. Almost every heavily lobbied issue is a money maker for someone. I can not think of one off the top of my head that isnt money related.
The lobbyist-system does more damage than just the lobbying. People in political power are unlikely to vote against certain bills, because doing so would ruin their luxury rest-of-life as a lobbyist for a lot of money.
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():
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The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
The lobbyist-system does more damage than just the lobbying. People in political power are unlikely to vote against certain bills, because doing so would ruin their luxury rest-of-life as a lobbyist for a lot of money.
All the money in the world does not get a person elected, which is where all this money is directed. You'd be hard pressed to find many laws passed that would not generate at least 40-50% approval rating among the electorate. I'm sure there are a few but they are far from the norm.
I'm still not understanding how this derail into lobbying has anything at all to do with the OP.
Lobby exists - please elaborate why it is a flaw inherent of rich people and not a flaw of the government and institutions we have.
The fact that not all lobby are done for financial reasons and financial elites and the fact that not all financial elites engage in lobby is enough for us to consider a issue of the government and not a issue of elites merely existing.
It would be hard to find an instance where lobbying in America is not done for financial reasons. Almost every heavily lobbied issue is a money maker for someone. I can not think of one off the top of my head that isnt money related.
How do you explain the ACA? How effective was the lobbying on that law?
Lobby exists - please elaborate why it is a flaw inherent of rich people and not a flaw of the government and institutions we have.
The fact that not all lobby are done for financial reasons and financial elites and the fact that not all financial elites engage in lobby is enough for us to consider a issue of the government and not a issue of elites merely existing.
It would be hard to find an instance where lobbying in America is not done for financial reasons. Almost every heavily lobbied issue is a money maker for someone. I can not think of one off the top of my head that isnt money related.
Well, yeah, it's a money maker. A lobby is the agency of corporations and other groups among politicians and corporation cares about money they make. Lobby is about making one by definition.
I was talking about financial interests directly. Sometimes the lobby acts to protect a company from intervening regulation. At the end of the day it's a money issue, but it's a rights and liberty issue in first stance.
I'm not a expert in the subject, neither do i hold the position that lobby is necessarily a good thing. But it's not a necessarily bad thing either. Companies need some form of representation as well. It's important as a form of juridic security that companies have some form of defense against the leviathan, or else everything could be stripped from then. While a big part of the lobby is about exploiting some opportunities, a huge part of it is about protecting investments and property.
Lobby exists - please elaborate why it is a flaw inherent of rich people and not a flaw of the government and institutions we have.
The fact that not all lobby are done for financial reasons and financial elites and the fact that not all financial elites engage in lobby is enough for us to consider a issue of the government and not a issue of elites merely existing.
It would be hard to find an instance where lobbying in America is not done for financial reasons. Almost every heavily lobbied issue is a money maker for someone. I can not think of one off the top of my head that isnt money related.
How do you explain the ACA? How effective was the lobbying on that law?
There was more money put in for the bill instead of against. If you would have read a couple of the links Owl posted, there were big companies pushing for the ACA. I would say they had more money backing them.
Lobby exists - please elaborate why it is a flaw inherent of rich people and not a flaw of the government and institutions we have.
The fact that not all lobby are done for financial reasons and financial elites and the fact that not all financial elites engage in lobby is enough for us to consider a issue of the government and not a issue of elites merely existing.
It would be hard to find an instance where lobbying in America is not done for financial reasons. Almost every heavily lobbied issue is a money maker for someone. I can not think of one off the top of my head that isnt money related.
How do you explain the ACA? How effective was the lobbying on that law?
There was more money put in for the bill instead of against. If you would have read a couple of the links Owl posted, there were big companies pushing for the ACA. I would say they had more money backing them.
I'm not interested in a spam fest....sorry. I can post as many links as you want that show failed lobbying efforts despite hundreds of millions of dollars. Get off this lobbying kick.
The lobbyist-system does more damage than just the lobbying. People in political power are unlikely to vote against certain bills, because doing so would ruin their luxury rest-of-life as a lobbyist for a lot of money.
All the money in the world does not get a person elected, which is where all this money is directed. You'd be hard pressed to find many laws passed that would not generate at least 40-50% approval rating among the electorate. I'm sure there are a few but they are far from the norm.
I think you got me wrong, people vote differently in hopes of getting to become a representative or a lobbyist for a large company after they stop being a politician.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Sage is occupied with the unspoken
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
Lobby exists - please elaborate why it is a flaw inherent of rich people and not a flaw of the government and institutions we have.
The fact that not all lobby are done for financial reasons and financial elites and the fact that not all financial elites engage in lobby is enough for us to consider a issue of the government and not a issue of elites merely existing.
It would be hard to find an instance where lobbying in America is not done for financial reasons. Almost every heavily lobbied issue is a money maker for someone. I can not think of one off the top of my head that isnt money related.
How do you explain the ACA? How effective was the lobbying on that law?
P.S. If spending money to win elections and influence legislation doesn't work, why does it keep happening?
I'm on your side here, but this is a fallacious argument. If faith healing doesn't work, why does it keep happening? If seances don't work, why do they keep happening? If self-help seminars don't work, why do they keep happening?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Vive, vale. Siquid novisti rectius istis,
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
Lobby exists - please elaborate why it is a flaw inherent of rich people and not a flaw of the government and institutions we have.
The fact that not all lobby are done for financial reasons and financial elites and the fact that not all financial elites engage in lobby is enough for us to consider a issue of the government and not a issue of elites merely existing.
It would be hard to find an instance where lobbying in America is not done for financial reasons. Almost every heavily lobbied issue is a money maker for someone. I can not think of one off the top of my head that isnt money related.
How do you explain the ACA? How effective was the lobbying on that law?
There was more money put in for the bill instead of against. If you would have read a couple of the links Owl posted, there were big companies pushing for the ACA. I would say they had more money backing them.
I'm not interested in a spam fest....sorry. I can post as many links as you want that show failed lobbying efforts despite hundreds of millions of dollars. Get off this lobbying kick.
Why? Does it invalidate your position? Especially since he posted links to show he is right? Its your fault if you dont wish to look at facts. Ignorance has never been a valid defense, for anything.
Face it, he who throws the most money at something gets things done. Its a handicap to have less money backing you or your cause.
Lobby exists - please elaborate why it is a flaw inherent of rich people and not a flaw of the government and institutions we have.
The fact that not all lobby are done for financial reasons and financial elites and the fact that not all financial elites engage in lobby is enough for us to consider a issue of the government and not a issue of elites merely existing.
It would be hard to find an instance where lobbying in America is not done for financial reasons. Almost every heavily lobbied issue is a money maker for someone. I can not think of one off the top of my head that isnt money related.
How do you explain the ACA? How effective was the lobbying on that law?
There was more money put in for the bill instead of against. If you would have read a couple of the links Owl posted, there were big companies pushing for the ACA. I would say they had more money backing them.
I'm not interested in a spam fest....sorry. I can post as many links as you want that show failed lobbying efforts despite hundreds of millions of dollars. Get off this lobbying kick.
Why? Does it invalidate your position? Especially since he posted links to show he is right? Its your fault if you dont wish to look at facts. Ignorance has never been a valid defense, for anything.
Face it, he who throws the most money at something gets things done. Its a handicap to have less money backing you or your cause.
How does it invalidate my opinion? What exactly is my opinion? I think you've lost sight of it with this epic and futile derail into lobbying. Which by the way is "politcal shenigans", of which you think is a mere minor inconvience when it comes to feeding the poor. So why do you care about this lobbying bull****? You wave off war like it's no big deal and worth the effort but damn those lobbiest....
So far the only thing that's been demostrated is that lobbying occurs and sometimes its effective at accomplishing what it intends to do. So what? You lead me to believe that somehow I'm worse off because of it...you have not proven or shown that I'm worse off because of it.
Further, you have not demonstrated, why it matters that Bill Gates has more money than me....so what, he can lobby people. If those positions he is lobbying are unpopular, the elected offical is not going to stay elected for very long. Many democrats lost their seat due to the ACA....so he can spam all he wants...nothing he post is doing nothing more than suggesting that lobbying goes on.
Oh so they were spending money? I wonder why they'd do that if it has no impact!
So if you can provide examples at 1 to 1 that means, at best, it works half the time? So half the time people with no money have no value?
I do. Not to you, obviously, you're just trolling. But I assume any observer who reads your "Why are you so jealous!?" and "NEWS ARTICLES SUPPORTING YOU ARE SPAM" against my "Click here for evidence" is going to side with me.
FINGERS CROSSED FOR EVIDENCE SAVING THE DAY!
There are plenty of articles and sources you can link besides Time magazine, a few op-ed's, or whatever.
Billy also has a point though.
While money certainly talks, there are just as many wealthy special interest groups "supposedly" championing the cause of the poor huddled masses that lobby Washington.
They actually succeed about as often as the groups lobbying for the interests of fat cats.
It really depends on what congress they're buying - there is an ebb and a flow. Just look at the Bush era congressional actions vs. the Clinton era congressional actions.
Some years it's very good for the rich, some years it's not so good for the rich.
However, do not let this fool anyone. It's never a good year for the poor.
There is only one party in this country today, and that's the Power Party. They win every election, and they pass every law they want to pass.
Thanks to Xenphire @ Inkfox for the amazing new sig
“Thus strangely are our souls constructed, and by slight ligaments
are we bound to prosperity and ruin.”
― Mary Shelley, Frankenstein
The fact that not all lobby are done for financial reasons and financial elites and the fact that not all financial elites engage in lobby is enough for us to consider a issue of the government and not a issue of elites merely existing.
BGU Control
R Aggro
Standard - For Fun
BG Auras
It would be hard to find an instance where lobbying in America is not done for financial reasons. Almost every heavily lobbied issue is a money maker for someone. I can not think of one off the top of my head that isnt money related.
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
All the money in the world does not get a person elected, which is where all this money is directed. You'd be hard pressed to find many laws passed that would not generate at least 40-50% approval rating among the electorate. I'm sure there are a few but they are far from the norm.
I'm still not understanding how this derail into lobbying has anything at all to do with the OP.
calling liberals loons=not okay
The standard to which the forum moderators apply the rules here.
How do you explain the ACA? How effective was the lobbying on that law?
calling liberals loons=not okay
The standard to which the forum moderators apply the rules here.
Well, yeah, it's a money maker. A lobby is the agency of corporations and other groups among politicians and corporation cares about money they make. Lobby is about making one by definition.
I was talking about financial interests directly. Sometimes the lobby acts to protect a company from intervening regulation. At the end of the day it's a money issue, but it's a rights and liberty issue in first stance.
I'm not a expert in the subject, neither do i hold the position that lobby is necessarily a good thing. But it's not a necessarily bad thing either. Companies need some form of representation as well. It's important as a form of juridic security that companies have some form of defense against the leviathan, or else everything could be stripped from then. While a big part of the lobby is about exploiting some opportunities, a huge part of it is about protecting investments and property.
BGU Control
R Aggro
Standard - For Fun
BG Auras
There was more money put in for the bill instead of against. If you would have read a couple of the links Owl posted, there were big companies pushing for the ACA. I would say they had more money backing them.
I'm not interested in a spam fest....sorry. I can post as many links as you want that show failed lobbying efforts despite hundreds of millions of dollars. Get off this lobbying kick.
calling liberals loons=not okay
The standard to which the forum moderators apply the rules here.
I think you got me wrong, people vote differently in hopes of getting to become a representative or a lobbyist for a large company after they stop being a politician.
and acts without effort.
Teaching without verbosity,
producing without possessing,
creating without regard to result,
claiming nothing,
the Sage has nothing to lose.
Which side? Or were you unaware that groups paid huge money in favor of it too?
P.S. If spending money to win elections and influence legislation doesn't work, why does it keep happening?
I'm on your side here, but this is a fallacious argument. If faith healing doesn't work, why does it keep happening? If seances don't work, why do they keep happening? If self-help seminars don't work, why do they keep happening?
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
Why? Does it invalidate your position? Especially since he posted links to show he is right? Its your fault if you dont wish to look at facts. Ignorance has never been a valid defense, for anything.
Face it, he who throws the most money at something gets things done. Its a handicap to have less money backing you or your cause.
How does it invalidate my opinion? What exactly is my opinion? I think you've lost sight of it with this epic and futile derail into lobbying. Which by the way is "politcal shenigans", of which you think is a mere minor inconvience when it comes to feeding the poor. So why do you care about this lobbying bull****? You wave off war like it's no big deal and worth the effort but damn those lobbiest....
So far the only thing that's been demostrated is that lobbying occurs and sometimes its effective at accomplishing what it intends to do. So what? You lead me to believe that somehow I'm worse off because of it...you have not proven or shown that I'm worse off because of it.
Further, you have not demonstrated, why it matters that Bill Gates has more money than me....so what, he can lobby people. If those positions he is lobbying are unpopular, the elected offical is not going to stay elected for very long. Many democrats lost their seat due to the ACA....so he can spam all he wants...nothing he post is doing nothing more than suggesting that lobbying goes on.
calling liberals loons=not okay
The standard to which the forum moderators apply the rules here.