Hm... you probably know that we do Horde Magic pretty frequently, but whenever we do Archenemy, even if it's 2 vs. 1 (with EDH decks), the 2 usually wins. (The scheme deck has one copy of each scheme in the four original box sets.) I wonder how things would go if we gave the archenemy extra starting turns...
For schemes, you need at least the promo scheme that gets you a planeswalker to have a fighting chance... Also, if the archenemy is running combo, then they just combo kill everyone and be done with it...
But yeah.. a Boss Monster variant that isn't horde or archenemy would be interesting to see...
Maybe its just edh but its one v 3. The one person gets 3 turns instead of one and 120 life. 63 commander damage to kill? 30 poison counters?
I think it could work. The only issue would be if the 3 people all ran mill decks...
Whoa that's crazy! They get 3 turns and triple all damage to take? We just do 1 turn and double damage to take... I couldn't imagine how much of a difference the three turns and the triple damage makes. Do the 3 ever win outside infinite combos?
Maybe its just edh but its one v 3. The one person gets 3 turns instead of one and 120 life. 63 commander damage to kill? 30 poison counters?
I think it could work. The only issue would be if the 3 people all ran mill decks...
Whoa that's crazy! They get 3 turns and triple all damage to take? We just do 1 turn and double damage to take... I couldn't imagine how much of a difference the three turns and the triple damage makes. Do the 3 ever win outside infinite combos?
Try playing stax.
I find funny how people always think that Grave Titan has no place in EDH right before they got overrun by army of zombie tokens...
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Grave Titan? I've seen him in EDH before, he is usually quite scary. Of course, we have him in the Horde deck as well. He's especially dangerous there because he's one of the few cards that will almost always leave untapped blockers.
Hm... I guess I'll leave this here for reference...
Token creatures, sorted by P/T
*/* green and white Elemental as created by Voice of Resurgence
1/1 red Elemental with haste (not really relevant to the Horde, but matters if someone steals it)
1/1 red Human
1/1 blue and black Zombie Wizard
1/1 colorless Shapeshifter with changeling (x3)
1/1 blue _ with flying (x2: one Bird, one Illusion)
1/1 black _ with flying (x2: one Bat, one Harpy)
1/1 blue and black Horror with flying (x2)
1/1 white and black Spirit with flying (x2)
1/1 black Wolf with deathtouch (x2)
1/1 black and green enchantment Snake with deathtouch (x2)
1/1 black Assassin as created by Vraska the Unseen
1/3 green enchantment Spider with reach
2/2 black Zombie (x59 - one of them is an enchantment)
2/2 white Cat (x2)
2/2 blue _ (x2: one Homunculus, one Illusion)
2/2 green _ (x6: four Wolves, one Boar, one Lizard)
2/2 red and green Satyr
2/2 blue Bird with flying (x2 - one is an enchantment)
2/3 red Minotaur
3/1 red _ (x7: three Elemental Shamans, four Elementals)
3/3 green Beast (x3)
3/3 colorless artifact Golem (x2 - one is an enchantment)
3/3 colorless artifact Wurm with deathtouch (x2)
3/3 white Bird with flying
3/3 blue Fish as created by Reef Worm
3/4 colorless artifact Gargoyle
4/4 green Elemental
4/4 red Ogre
4/4 red and green Giant Warrior
4/4 green Rhino with trample
4/4 blue Sphinx with flying
4/4 red Dragon with flying
5/3 green Elemental
5/5 Zombie Giant (x7)
5/5 green Wurm with trample
5/5 black Demon with flying
5/5 red Dragon with flying
5/5 blue and red Elemental with flying
6/12 colorless artifact Construct with trample
6/6 red Dragon with flying
7/1 red Elemental with trample and haste (x2)
9/9 colorless artifact Golem
9/9 blue Kraken
Total number of tokens: 135
Maybe its just edh but its one v 3. The one person gets 3 turns instead of one and 120 life. 63 commander damage to kill? 30 poison counters?
I think it could work. The only issue would be if the 3 people all ran mill decks...
Whoa that's crazy! They get 3 turns and triple all damage to take? We just do 1 turn and double damage to take... I couldn't imagine how much of a difference the three turns and the triple damage makes. Do the 3 ever win outside infinite combos?
Try playing stax.
I find funny how people always think that Grave Titan has no place in EDH right before they got overrun by army of zombie tokens...
LOL, I suppose. Also, I love me some Grave Titan and run him in Sek'kuar.
I find funny how people always think that Grave Titan has no place in EDH right before they got overrun by army of zombie tokens...
Who thinks that he has no place? He's one of the best creatures in black. 10 P/T across 3 creatures for 6 mana is pretty good, not to mention looping him or attacking.
I find funny how people always think that Grave Titan has no place in EDH right before they got overrun by army of zombie tokens...
Who thinks that he has no place? He's one of the best creatures in black. 10 P/T across 3 creatures for 6 mana is pretty good, not to mention looping him or attacking.
Good question. ^
Grave Titan is really solid, as much as any legal titan, spare maybe Sun Titan?
Sun Titan definitely has uses too. Sometimes you just recur your Evolving Wilds to get more lands.
(Also, if anyone was wondering about the use of Infernal Spawn of Infernal Spawn of Evil in the Horde: It does matter, whenever we have to use Path to Exile on a creature for example. And if we control a planeswalker, the Horde will definitely target a planeswalker with that ability.)
Hm... Modern Masters 2015 has two mythic rare cards that are banned in EDH (Primeval Titan and Emrakul, the Aeons Torn)... I didn't think about that too much.
And Frost Titan does seem like the weakest of them.
Also, does anyone else here play against a Horde deck?
I consider Sun Titan to be the best White creature in EDH, it is difficult for me to find reasons not to include him in any deck with white.
Grave Titan is not as good, but has great value every time you play/reanimate him. Inferno Titan is underrated, he repeatedly snipes many commanders and strong utility creatures. Frost Titan is the weakest, only because he is in a cycle with some very strong cards. I wouldn't consider him weak though, he definitely has his place.
I have both zombie and minotaur horde decks. It's nice when you only have 2 or 3 people on a given night, or you need something to switch it up.
Sometimes, if we have more people playing, we increase the challenge by instead revealing until we hit two nontoken cards instead of just one. Quite a bit more dangerous that way. Or sometimes we give the Horde the scheme deck as well.
(Also, how many cards do you have in your Horde decks? Mine has 210 (135/75 split), as listed in the spoiler above.)
(Also, for some time, my Horde had two 0/1 Goat tokens just for fun, but those got removed and replaced with more zombies.)
My zombie horde is 100 cards, but pretty focused. The split is 55/45, but the non-tokens are strong, and the deck is strictly zombie focused, no other tribe of creatures, mostly black outside of a few spells (Thraximundar, Cruel Ultimatum, Skullbriar, the Walking Grave).
It runs 4 copies of Army of the Damned, 2 copies of Zombie Apocalypse, most of the lords, stax/attrition things like Smallpox etc. Usually we start with one non-token for the first couple turns, then increase the count as the game goes. I would ideally like the players' win percentage to be between %20-%30, it's at about %50 right now with 2vHorde, but tweaks include simply adding tokens, taking away a prep-turn per extra player, increasing non-token flips per turn, meaner cards. This is difficult without turning the horde into a cannon that randomly wins. I prefer challenging, down to the wire games where wins are earned. What I see too often with super high token counts is the players getting blown out, or the horde getting blown out.
I do play all those mean spells in my 100 card Zombie Horde... It's just that Ezuri Elves cranks out enough blockers to usually block and regen until it just overruns for a billion to win. Paired with Azusa for support, the zombie horde doesn't usually win. I also seldomly hit my sweepers for some reason. I run singleton for all the spells tho... Maybe I just have too much garbage zombie filler? Like Endless Ranks of the Dead...
I like the zombie filler like that, but not too much. Tuning horde decks to your meta is pretty fun though. My horde has a BUNCH of sacrifice effects; elves are better at combat unless they are in the graveyard.
Hey guys! It's been a while since I've been able to post. Not because I've been especially busy (I am, don't get me wrong), but mostly because my computer was terribly infected with malware that none of my 3 anti-malwares/cleaners picked up. Also, my smartphone is terrible at long messages in the HTML box, so I don't use it for posting if I can avoid it. But fear not! I've been keeping up with the conversations!
I'm about ready to make a horde deck myself. I've only got one person to play EDH with here and 1) I don't want to kill my decks by using the French Banlist (with which I'm not particularly familiar in the first place), and 2) 1v1 EDH really isn't as fun. At least the horde deck can function as a third "ghost player." I'm definitely going with zombies and I'm just going to fill the deck with all the big, splashy jank cards I've got lying around. It should be fun that way! If it's under-powered or oover-powered, I'll fix it afterwards.
Anyways, I'm getting ready for GP Chiba, as well. It's my first GP ever, so I'm pretty excited to see how I do. It's Sealed MM2, so if I pull any valuable cards, I'll drop before having to pass them around. I kinda hope I don't pull that well, though, since I really do want to play the main event. It cost a pretty penny to register and registration was a real hassle, as I had to wait for the second wave of registration. (They initially sold out, but re-opened it with a new player cap.) I don't want that effort to go to waste. Still, if a card is worth the ticket-price, I'll have recouped my losses by dropping. Plus, there's side events!
Speaking of side events, I'm obviously going to play a ton of EDH. The problem is that I'm hesitant to bring my most expensive deck, as I'm afraid it (or cards in it) might get lost or stolen, and that would ruin my day. BUT! I also don't want to lose, as there are prizes. The question is, what deck should I bring? What do you guys think?
Pros: Probably my most consistently powerful deck. I know it can handle a variety of opponents' decks, even other top-tier generals.
Cons: Expensive and thus risky to bring. And it WILL make games last twice as long.
Pros: Very fast. It's gone off t6 before, and is usually ready to go off by t12, so long as I'm not facing more than 1 control deck. Very fun deck, too.
Cons: A little glass-cannon-y. It can whiff easily if I don't have a decent opening hand. Has a lot of expensive cards in it, as well.
Pros: Very thematic and fun. Fairly showy and enjoyable (and easy!) to play.
Cons: Rather weak, as it can't really interact with the Stack. Easily disrupted.
Pros: Disrupts hands and locks down the board like a champ.
Cons: Slower to set up than GAA4. Winning takes a while. Also can't deal with Stack shenanigans.
Pros: Spellslinging splashiness galore! Can do Stack shenanigans. Can generate crazy card advantage.
Cons: While in total the deck isn't too expensive, the expensive cards are ones I value a lot. Can get a little boring to play, and (on the same note) can be disrupted once opponents learn how the deck works.
One general hesitation: I'm wary of playing mono-coloured decks, since Iona is a thing, though each of my mono-coloured decks has colourless ways of removing such impediments. (Of course, actually having that removal at the ready is another matter.)
Most MtG players are good people and value others' cards as much as their own. And this is especially of true of Japanese players. Still, it only takes one bad apple to ruin everything. I don't mind bringing one of my expensive decks... it's just that I've read too many stories on these forums about how someone's deck/cards got knicked. Obviously, I plan to watch my belongings like a hawk, but it's not humanly possible to devote all of one's attention to theft-prevention while trying to play (and enjoy!) a game.
Ah, so it seems Zombie Horde is the way to go for most people? I suppose that's not too surprising. There's also the fact zombie tokens are fairly common (many blocks have a 2/2 Zombie token, most notably Innistrad and Alara), so it's not uncommon to have a lot of those lying around.
Question - for Army of the Damned, does the Horde use flashback, or is it simply ignored? (If flashback applies, then the Horde can just make 26 tokens straight up, or can also make 13 if the card gets milled from damage.)
@madhatter00o: Glad your computer is fixed. And good luck with everything. Which deck to use? Hm... that's a tough choice (especially if cost/risk of losing is a factor)...
I'd just bring Niv... It really also depends how much other stuff you're bringing. I really wouldn't bring a trade binder unless you are planning on doing a lot of trading. For the most part, I bring to a GP the cards I want to get signed by artists, one, maybe two, EDH decks, dice, playmat, pen & paper. They all fit nicely into my messenger bag. I usually end up buying a ton of junk too. Deckboxes, playmats, more cards, you name it...
I'm also one of the horror stories that got their stuff jacked. I brought WAY too much crap to that GP tho, so someone helped themselves to a box of trade bait. That was the last time I brought serious trade stuff to a GP. I've been to a few GPs and I was only jacked once, but that's once too many. It was in Oakland too (go figure). Lessee which GPs I've actually attended...
San Jose x2
Oakland x2
Sacramento x1
Portland x1
Las Vegas x1
San Diego x1
The last Worlds in San Francisco before they started doing the World Cup.
I started a few years back, but I only attend local GPs. I wanted to go to Phoenix and LA last year, but plans fell through. Going to Vegas in a couple weeks though, which I'm excited about.
I think it could work. The only issue would be if the 3 people all ran mill decks...
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But yeah.. a Boss Monster variant that isn't horde or archenemy would be interesting to see...
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Whoa that's crazy! They get 3 turns and triple all damage to take? We just do 1 turn and double damage to take... I couldn't imagine how much of a difference the three turns and the triple damage makes. Do the 3 ever win outside infinite combos?
Try playing stax.
I find funny how people always think that Grave Titan has no place in EDH right before they got overrun by army of zombie tokens...
Hm... I guess I'll leave this here for reference...
*/* green and white Elemental as created by Voice of Resurgence
1/1 red Elemental with haste (not really relevant to the Horde, but matters if someone steals it)
1/1 red Human
1/1 blue and black Zombie Wizard
1/1 colorless Shapeshifter with changeling (x3)
1/1 blue _ with flying (x2: one Bird, one Illusion)
1/1 black _ with flying (x2: one Bat, one Harpy)
1/1 blue and black Horror with flying (x2)
1/1 white and black Spirit with flying (x2)
1/1 black Wolf with deathtouch (x2)
1/1 black and green enchantment Snake with deathtouch (x2)
1/1 black Assassin as created by Vraska the Unseen
1/3 green enchantment Spider with reach
2/2 black Zombie (x59 - one of them is an enchantment)
2/2 white Cat (x2)
2/2 blue _ (x2: one Homunculus, one Illusion)
2/2 green _ (x6: four Wolves, one Boar, one Lizard)
2/2 red and green Satyr
2/2 blue Bird with flying (x2 - one is an enchantment)
2/3 red Minotaur
3/1 red _ (x7: three Elemental Shamans, four Elementals)
3/3 green Beast (x3)
3/3 colorless artifact Golem (x2 - one is an enchantment)
3/3 colorless artifact Wurm with deathtouch (x2)
3/3 white Bird with flying
3/3 blue Fish as created by Reef Worm
3/4 colorless artifact Gargoyle
4/4 green Elemental
4/4 red Ogre
4/4 red and green Giant Warrior
4/4 green Rhino with trample
4/4 blue Sphinx with flying
4/4 red Dragon with flying
5/3 green Elemental
5/5 Zombie Giant (x7)
5/5 green Wurm with trample
5/5 black Demon with flying
5/5 red Dragon with flying
5/5 blue and red Elemental with flying
6/12 colorless artifact Construct with trample
6/6 red Dragon with flying
7/1 red Elemental with trample and haste (x2)
9/9 colorless artifact Golem
9/9 blue Kraken
Total number of tokens: 135
And the nontokens in random order (just shuffled)
Nicol Bolas
Rootborn Defenses
Torrent of Souls
Twilight's Call
Gleam of Battle
Archetype of Finality
Bonehoard
Artisan of Kozilek
Everlasting Torment
Kalonian Behemoth (this one might be questionable, maybe replace)
Aphetto Dredging
Body Double
Call to the Grave
Nessian Wilds Ravager
Wayfaring Temple
Ixidron
Thraximundar
Telemin Performance
Take Possession
Consign to Dust (effectively a sweeper since strive doesn't matter to the Horde)
Death Baron
Revenant
Plague Wind
Manabarbs
Stitch in Time (while Time Warp would be "better", this is a bit "scarier")
Lord of the Void
Infernal Spawn of Infernal Spawn of Evil (it's silver-bordered, but it does take effect)
Shipbreaker Kraken (in most cases, just monstrosity immediately)
Delirium Skeins
Din of the Fireherd
Sire of Insanity (usually doesn't take effect since it attacks and probably dies, but still scary)
Ashenmoor Liege
Cruel Ultimatum
Grave Titan
Pyreheart Wolf
World at War
Slave of Bolas
Frontline Medic
Massacre Wurm
Charnelhoard Wurm
Isperia, Supreme Judge
Hellrider
Engulfing Slagwurm
Sunblast Angel
Celestial Archon
Slum Reaper
Gigantomancer (an army of 7/7s is scary)
Cemetery Reaper
Underworld Cerberus
Dire Undercurrents
Pheres-Band Raiders
Parallel Lives (Doubling Season is better, but we save those for our own decks)
Diregraf Captain
Evil Twin
Yavimaya's Embrace
In Garruk's Wake
Hex
Marshal's Anthem (most dangerous card in the deck - one-sided mass revival)
Unbreathing Horde
Vandalblast
Smallpox
Seraph of the Masses
Undead Warchief
Sword of Kaldra (maybe the weakest card, probably replace)
Naya Soulbeast
Diluvian Primordial
Phthisis
Living Death
Pathrazer of Ulamog
Curse of the Cabal
Violent Ultimatum
Woodvine Elemental (makes army huge, but you get a card out of it if you survive the attack)
Nobilis of War
Zombie Apocalypse
Feral Animist (because exponential infinity is much cooler than linear infinity)
Total number of nontoken cards: 75
Total size of Horde: 210
-------
Oh, and by the way, you need to do 20 star jumps in order to escape from this trap room.
....
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LOL, I suppose. Also, I love me some Grave Titan and run him in Sek'kuar.
Who thinks that he has no place? He's one of the best creatures in black. 10 P/T across 3 creatures for 6 mana is pretty good, not to mention looping him or attacking.
Good question. ^
Grave Titan is really solid, as much as any legal titan, spare maybe Sun Titan?
(Also, if anyone was wondering about the use of Infernal Spawn of Infernal Spawn of Evil in the Horde: It does matter, whenever we have to use Path to Exile on a creature for example. And if we control a planeswalker, the Horde will definitely target a planeswalker with that ability.)
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Inferno is an insta-win in my Maelstrom Wanderer deck.
Sun is put into most decks running white.
We've already discussed the power of grave.
But yes, I think Frost is the most meh.
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And Frost Titan does seem like the weakest of them.
Also, does anyone else here play against a Horde deck?
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Grave Titan is not as good, but has great value every time you play/reanimate him. Inferno Titan is underrated, he repeatedly snipes many commanders and strong utility creatures. Frost Titan is the weakest, only because he is in a cycle with some very strong cards. I wouldn't consider him weak though, he definitely has his place.
I have both zombie and minotaur horde decks. It's nice when you only have 2 or 3 people on a given night, or you need something to switch it up.
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That's because elves.
I personally would like to try a merfolk horde deck. It wouldn't be good. But it would be fun.
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Elf horde sounds horrible. I hate elves since my legacy merfolk loses to them almost all of the time (until I added Toxic Deluge to SB).
No : Living Death, Grave Betrayal, Plague Wind, Decree of Pain, Army of the Damned, Zombie Apocalypse, In Garruk's Wake, Call to the Grave, Gravepact etc.
Zombies themselves aren't so bad, it's the other stuff.
(Also, how many cards do you have in your Horde decks? Mine has 210 (135/75 split), as listed in the spoiler above.)
(Also, for some time, my Horde had two 0/1 Goat tokens just for fun, but those got removed and replaced with more zombies.)
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It runs 4 copies of Army of the Damned, 2 copies of Zombie Apocalypse, most of the lords, stax/attrition things like Smallpox etc. Usually we start with one non-token for the first couple turns, then increase the count as the game goes. I would ideally like the players' win percentage to be between %20-%30, it's at about %50 right now with 2vHorde, but tweaks include simply adding tokens, taking away a prep-turn per extra player, increasing non-token flips per turn, meaner cards. This is difficult without turning the horde into a cannon that randomly wins. I prefer challenging, down to the wire games where wins are earned. What I see too often with super high token counts is the players getting blown out, or the horde getting blown out.
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I think a Sliver horde would be neato though.
I'm about ready to make a horde deck myself. I've only got one person to play EDH with here and 1) I don't want to kill my decks by using the French Banlist (with which I'm not particularly familiar in the first place), and 2) 1v1 EDH really isn't as fun. At least the horde deck can function as a third "ghost player." I'm definitely going with zombies and I'm just going to fill the deck with all the big, splashy jank cards I've got lying around. It should be fun that way! If it's under-powered or oover-powered, I'll fix it afterwards.
Anyways, I'm getting ready for GP Chiba, as well. It's my first GP ever, so I'm pretty excited to see how I do. It's Sealed MM2, so if I pull any valuable cards, I'll drop before having to pass them around. I kinda hope I don't pull that well, though, since I really do want to play the main event. It cost a pretty penny to register and registration was a real hassle, as I had to wait for the second wave of registration. (They initially sold out, but re-opened it with a new player cap.) I don't want that effort to go to waste. Still, if a card is worth the ticket-price, I'll have recouped my losses by dropping. Plus, there's side events!
Speaking of side events, I'm obviously going to play a ton of EDH. The problem is that I'm hesitant to bring my most expensive deck, as I'm afraid it (or cards in it) might get lost or stolen, and that would ruin my day. BUT! I also don't want to lose, as there are prizes. The question is, what deck should I bring? What do you guys think?
(In order from most to least expensive)
Grand Arbiter Augustin IV
Pros: Probably my most consistently powerful deck. I know it can handle a variety of opponents' decks, even other top-tier generals.
Cons: Expensive and thus risky to bring. And it WILL make games last twice as long.
Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind
Pros: Very fast. It's gone off t6 before, and is usually ready to go off by t12, so long as I'm not facing more than 1 control deck. Very fun deck, too.
Cons: A little glass-cannon-y. It can whiff easily if I don't have a decent opening hand. Has a lot of expensive cards in it, as well.
Linvala, Keeper of Silence
Pros: Very thematic and fun. Fairly showy and enjoyable (and easy!) to play.
Cons: Rather weak, as it can't really interact with the Stack. Easily disrupted.
Sidisi, Undead Vizier
Pros: Disrupts hands and locks down the board like a champ.
Cons: Slower to set up than GAA4. Winning takes a while. Also can't deal with Stack shenanigans.
Talrand, Sky Summoner
Pros: Spellslinging splashiness galore! Can do Stack shenanigans. Can generate crazy card advantage.
Cons: While in total the deck isn't too expensive, the expensive cards are ones I value a lot. Can get a little boring to play, and (on the same note) can be disrupted once opponents learn how the deck works.
One general hesitation: I'm wary of playing mono-coloured decks, since Iona is a thing, though each of my mono-coloured decks has colourless ways of removing such impediments. (Of course, actually having that removal at the ready is another matter.)
Most MtG players are good people and value others' cards as much as their own. And this is especially of true of Japanese players. Still, it only takes one bad apple to ruin everything. I don't mind bringing one of my expensive decks... it's just that I've read too many stories on these forums about how someone's deck/cards got knicked. Obviously, I plan to watch my belongings like a hawk, but it's not humanly possible to devote all of one's attention to theft-prevention while trying to play (and enjoy!) a game.
Any advice and/or encouragement is welcome!
Thank you to Rivenor for this awesome banner!
Palladia-Mors of {The Spirit of EDH}
EDH
WLinvala, Queen of the AngelsW
WUThe Prison of the Grand ArbiterUW [Primer]
URNiv-Mizzet, Handcycling ComboRU
UTalrand, Drake-Slinging to VictoryU
WUGDerevi, Tactical ShufflingGUW
BCao Cao, Discard Stax of Absolute MiseryB
Question - for Army of the Damned, does the Horde use flashback, or is it simply ignored? (If flashback applies, then the Horde can just make 26 tokens straight up, or can also make 13 if the card gets milled from damage.)
@madhatter00o: Glad your computer is fixed. And good luck with everything. Which deck to use? Hm... that's a tough choice (especially if cost/risk of losing is a factor)...
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I'm also one of the horror stories that got their stuff jacked. I brought WAY too much crap to that GP tho, so someone helped themselves to a box of trade bait. That was the last time I brought serious trade stuff to a GP. I've been to a few GPs and I was only jacked once, but that's once too many. It was in Oakland too (go figure). Lessee which GPs I've actually attended...
San Jose x2
Oakland x2
Sacramento x1
Portland x1
Las Vegas x1
San Diego x1
The last Worlds in San Francisco before they started doing the World Cup.
I started a few years back, but I only attend local GPs. I wanted to go to Phoenix and LA last year, but plans fell through. Going to Vegas in a couple weeks though, which I'm excited about.
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