It kinda humored me how he built up the anticipation. "I swear to god, you'll go nuts on social media after you've read this!"
In other news, I think I've figured M15 out...
(from my spreadsheet tracking my own progress)
9 drafts/sealeds later, the figures remain largely the same. White is quite clearly unbeatable in this format.
I had a really fun draft yesterday (IRL, with the old school group), especially considering it's a core set. I drafted black-white auras with 2 Heliod's Pilgrim & Boonweaver Giant to go with six auras: 2 Crippling Blight, Caustic Tar, Stab Wound, Divine Favor, Spectra Ward. Obviously the Ward thingy is basically unbeatable, but when I couldn't just slam it on a guy and win the game, the games were always really interesting (and figuring out what to get with Pilgrim was surprisingly difficult). Plus, all my creatures were really small, so I usually couldn't just win with the Ward either.
I don't normally play much Core Set limited, but we have a PTQ in about a week. We don't get many PTQs (two a year), and most important events are constructed, so I want to make it count.
Anyone else not surprised, but still super disappointed in the Banners they just announced. Since there are only 5 in a large set, it won't be nearly as bad as the Cluestones in draft. I know they apparently don't want to print signets again, but I was still hoping for something closer to a signet than a cluestone.
Also, on an unrelated note, I haven't been on MODO since August 15. This is some kind of record for me. Chalk it up to the existence of Hearthstone and the fact that the new client is the worst. I was having some issues with my computer recently. I added 2 gigs of RAM (up from 4 to 6), and I started running my task manager pretty regularly so that I could see how things were running. The last time I loaded the new client, after I finished my draft and games, it was hogging over 1 gig of RAM. Not cool.
Yeah, I've started going back to my LGS (even though it moved to be pretty far out of my way a couple years ago :/) because MODO is just crap. Kinda given up on Hearthstone, too, it was never really super interesting to me.
I love how we have one online card game that's super deep and interesting but depends on a nearly unusable UI, and another that is a hundred times shallower but has a completely amazing UI. Only in my fantasies do I get to play a computer game that's actually worth playing anymore.
I'm a one-trick pony - I only play Magic and am not interested in getting into other games. Probably won't ever try Hearthstone.
But I've played a reasonable amount of Modo recently. I want to be prepared for the PTQ, and the LGS is, sadly, dreadful. I've been organizing a few IRL drafts with a select group of old schoolers, but I don't have the time to do that more than once or twice a week, so Modo it is. It's not unplayable, though it can be aggravating at times. There are improvements over v3 (I rather like the draft interface, for example), but there are more downgrades.
As for the new Cluestones, I don't mind them. They're better Obelisks, and Obelisks were okay to have access to back in Shards if you needed them. They're not great, but cards don't have to be great in order to contribute to an interesting format.
I'm worried that it's going to be hard to get 23 playables in this set, with all the fixing running around. My plan for this set was to start off drafting 2 color decks, but now it looks like getting forced into 3 is going to happen a lot.
What do you guys think of the set so far? Too early to ask for drafting advice?
The new MODO client... while I don't think it's as bad as other people, Hearthstone has really showed how huge Magic could be if only Magic Online was attractive, high-performance, and easy.
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Edit: A thing I'd rather have over the Banners? Enemy-colored borderposts. Maybe later in the set.
I think it probably is the intent to force people into 3-colors for the most part. I have a hard time imagining that people won't at least splash a third color when stuff like Efreet Weaponmaster is moving around the table at common. It kinda seems like games are going to be about which player can get to 3 colors first.
I find the banners a little disappointing just because we barely got done with Cluestones and these have exactly the same gameplay. I'd have been much happier if they all had a clan-specific effect when you sacced them instead of just drawing a card. They just feel bland to me.
Also, as much as a fan of Star Trek as I am... is anyone else getting a little nervous about the amount of yelling that is probably going to be happening around them at the prerelease?
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I'll be sad if people don't start calling The Chain Veil "Fleetwood Mac."
What do you guys think of the set so far? Too early to ask for drafting advice?
I'm cautiously optimistic so far. The big question for me is whether the set manages to dodge the "only five archetypes" problem which is the theme's natural risk. But at least it doesn't look way too fast this time.
The only drafting tip I have so far is the obvious suggestion that the common and uncommon land cycles should both be picked highly since there's a lot of card power reward for having decent multicolour support.
(Did I say five archetypes? Obviously Tahn's going to draft 5-colour again, so we'll have to count that as a sixth! ;))
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--
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
I'd be surprised if the format is fast when decks have such a high chance of at least having t3 blockers thanks to morph. There seem to be pretty decent walls as well.
The best draft advice I've heard so far is to start out in an enemy color pair. Wedges share enemy pairs rather than allied, so starting with the enemy pair leaves you more open for your third color. Splashing for both wedges with an enemy colored core to your deck could be a viable strategy as well.
For example, if you start drafting UG, you can draft cards from either temur R or sultai B as the draft progresses. 3-color fixing for either wedge will still be playable no matter which you end up in as well.
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I'll bet you wish you had a non-unglued/unhinged card that shared your first name.
I see this set as being a huge skill tester for me. With some decent instants and lots of good morph creatures, there will be a lot to do if you have open mana. There will be lots of opportunities for bluffing as well (something I have a trouble doing and reading). I'm excited and scared.
5-2 & 10th at the PTQ (with the best breakers). My deck was reasonable, but lacked bombs or good ways to deal with bombs, so I lost in the late rounds to people with Soul of Theros and nonsense like that.
WMCQ today almost went well; I was 1st after swiss and up a game in the semis after having played the first game pretty greatly (I think, at least), but I couldn't keep the momentum and probably made some suboptimal plays, so I lost the next two games. Sorta embarrassing that I did better in constructed than in limited though.
The Norwegian team ended up being quite decent though. All the players have Pro Tour experience and are among the better players in the country, so I think they have a shot with some preparations. Though obviously, Norwegians only play limited and so they won't be prepared. But I'm just saying.
Hey all, I wanted to share with you all an M15 sealed pool that I found very interesting. I thought some of you might enjoy taking a crack at it as I found it to be a challenging build. Curious to see what others may have done.
The pool below is shy by 1-2 cards, but suffice to say that they were unplayable and wouldn't have altered your builds at all!
It's more that people always overvalue removal. Really, if they make a card ":symb:: Sorcery: As an additional cost, get F'd in the A. Destroy target creature." people will say "removal is removal" and first-pick it.
Well, without looking at your build, red is nothing good but removal, black is nothing good but high-cost stuff, and green is all midrangey stuff. White seems like your best color in general (as usual). Blue is awful.
So I'd run WG with the Meteorites and splash the red removal, as a first inclination.
...Which seems to be what you did. Yay!
I'm not a big fan of the large amount of green in the deck, though. I'd try to go easy on my mana base and lower the green commitment (specifically Elvish Mystic and Charging Rhino, and also Haunted Plate Mail isn't great imo, *especially* in a Convoke deck). You have a good late game, Wall of Essence is totally fine for you. Bronze Sable is obviously not great but who cares about your early game, you've got Nissa and Triplicate Spirits, and the Sable gets you there better than Rhino does. And the second Meteorite is just more generally useful than Plate Mail. Lastly, I say dump two Forest for 2 Plains and be happy you have a consistently performing mana base.
Well, if you say so. Equip costs of 4 (or even 3) tend to turn me off equipment pretty fast, unless I'm getting a lot more than just a stat boost. It's too easy punish you for spending your mana that way.
I don't think Plate Mail is generally that good in this format (though fine) - there are more creatures, and maindecking Naturalizes isn't too bad. But if you have Sungrace Pegasi, it becomes pretty exciting.
Well, if you say so. Equip costs of 4 (or even 3) tend to turn me off equipment pretty fast, unless I'm getting a lot more than just a stat boost. It's too easy punish you for spending your mana that way.
You're getting a big stat boost. One enough to turn even the smallest creature into something your opponent must spend one or two cards on. Even if your opponent kills your creature in response, they've still spent a removal spell on your 1/1 token.
The weakness of the Convoke deck is the inability to break through defenses, since your guys tend to be smaller. You can get a great draw of raise into triplicate into seraph, but if your opponent has removal for the seraph and a spider for the spirits, suddenly you can't do much. Plate Mail is a finisher which can't be hit by most removal.
Yeah, there were a lot of ways to build this pool and I experimented with all colors except blue. It worked out for me in the end with a 3-0, but I also had a serious case of the run goods in two games that I probably should have lost. I think splashing for Cone of Flame may have been a bit too ambitious, but I just can't help myself when it comes to that card. It's been my favorite card to cast in limited ever since 10th edition.
I'm surprised you'd cut Charging Rhino. I've found myself liking that card more and more in M15 as it's text makes it really difficult to block effectively, and it also fills a pretty big hole in my creature curve. I think the ability to draw into 1-2 fatties is important in just about any deck, especially in sealed.
The last few cuts were tough, and I agree that Haunted Plate Mail is a double edged sword at best. It can be utterly dominant in a variety of situations, but the equip cost is soooo expensive. Sene makes a good point with Sungrace Pegasus though, and I did live that dream for at least one game in round 3. 10 point life swings are no joke!
It's more that people always overvalue removal. Really, if they make a card ":symb:: Sorcery: As an additional cost, get F'd in the A. Destroy target creature." people will say "removal is removal" and first-pick it.
--
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
I drafted a do nothing U/B cube deck last night, promptly got smoked by a Boros aggro deck in round one then proceeded to have no opponents show up for rounds two or three. Why do people join the swiss queue if they don't intend to play all three rounds?
It's more that people always overvalue removal. Really, if they make a card ":symb:: Sorcery: As an additional cost, get F'd in the A. Destroy target creature." people will say "removal is removal" and first-pick it.
Best Recurring Nightmare ever. I even managed to live the dream once, going off with Palinchron and being able to gain infinite life, infinite creatures, bounce my opponent's board and draw as many cards as I want. Theoretically, of course, because with Modo being the (censored) program it is, I could only do enough iterations to bounce some problematic permanents and create a lethal board.
You really just need to embrace the rage. I keep a small colony of hamsters next to my computer and every time I lose a match to mana screw I throw one against the wall.
Speaking of Recurring Nightmare, I got one in this TSE draft I just did and opted to not run it. My deck was a 9 creature special, and all the creatures were fairly interchangable, and the only CIP dude was Scrivener.
In the final I got a 4-for-1 with my maindeck Nausea.
Edit: Second TSE draft, four creatures this time. Would have played 0, but didn't have quite enough playables for that. R/B mono wrath control that finishes things off with Fanning the Flames. Great fun
Went to a midnight prerelease. Got back a little bit ago. 96 people at mine. Abzan is really good, Temur also placed well at the top tables, when they got good power from their UG gold cards.
I opened Abzan, got a fairly fantastic pool. Even unlocked the "all my five creatures have first strike and deathtouch" achievement. I gotta say, having a set with quality removal in it (and not just like a token Murder or something, but LOTS of removal) is super refreshing. I started out running three or so removal spells in a fairly tempo heavy deck, but at every stage I kept taking stuff out for more answers, until I found myself running with stuff like Dead Drop and Erase. Ended up taking 2nd place (again, sigh); lost in the finals against another Abzan pool.
Instant speed removal is just unbelievably important in this format, particularly against Abzan. The Outlast guys are soooo good to be able to kill when you want, and cards like Suppression Field are even more awesome to be able to take out. I had both Murderous Cut and Utter End, and both were complete all-stars.
Red is terrible, since none of their stuff is actually must-kill, and the tempo is just not that much better than what you can get in every other color. Blue isn't bad at all.
9 drafts/sealeds later, the figures remain largely the same. White is quite clearly unbeatable in this format.
I had a really fun draft yesterday (IRL, with the old school group), especially considering it's a core set. I drafted black-white auras with 2 Heliod's Pilgrim & Boonweaver Giant to go with six auras: 2 Crippling Blight, Caustic Tar, Stab Wound, Divine Favor, Spectra Ward. Obviously the Ward thingy is basically unbeatable, but when I couldn't just slam it on a guy and win the game, the games were always really interesting (and figuring out what to get with Pilgrim was surprisingly difficult). Plus, all my creatures were really small, so I usually couldn't just win with the Ward either.
I don't normally play much Core Set limited, but we have a PTQ in about a week. We don't get many PTQs (two a year), and most important events are constructed, so I want to make it count.
Also, on an unrelated note, I haven't been on MODO since August 15. This is some kind of record for me. Chalk it up to the existence of Hearthstone and the fact that the new client is the worst. I was having some issues with my computer recently. I added 2 gigs of RAM (up from 4 to 6), and I started running my task manager pretty regularly so that I could see how things were running. The last time I loaded the new client, after I finished my draft and games, it was hogging over 1 gig of RAM. Not cool.
I love how we have one online card game that's super deep and interesting but depends on a nearly unusable UI, and another that is a hundred times shallower but has a completely amazing UI. Only in my fantasies do I get to play a computer game that's actually worth playing anymore.
But I've played a reasonable amount of Modo recently. I want to be prepared for the PTQ, and the LGS is, sadly, dreadful. I've been organizing a few IRL drafts with a select group of old schoolers, but I don't have the time to do that more than once or twice a week, so Modo it is. It's not unplayable, though it can be aggravating at times. There are improvements over v3 (I rather like the draft interface, for example), but there are more downgrades.
As for the new Cluestones, I don't mind them. They're better Obelisks, and Obelisks were okay to have access to back in Shards if you needed them. They're not great, but cards don't have to be great in order to contribute to an interesting format.
What do you guys think of the set so far? Too early to ask for drafting advice?
The new MODO client... while I don't think it's as bad as other people, Hearthstone has really showed how huge Magic could be if only Magic Online was attractive, high-performance, and easy.
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Edit: A thing I'd rather have over the Banners? Enemy-colored borderposts. Maybe later in the set.
I find the banners a little disappointing just because we barely got done with Cluestones and these have exactly the same gameplay. I'd have been much happier if they all had a clan-specific effect when you sacced them instead of just drawing a card. They just feel bland to me.
Chances are, I will be doing the yelling...so sorry in advance.
The only drafting tip I have so far is the obvious suggestion that the common and uncommon land cycles should both be picked highly since there's a lot of card power reward for having decent multicolour support.
(Did I say five archetypes? Obviously Tahn's going to draft 5-colour again, so we'll have to count that as a sixth! ;))
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
The best draft advice I've heard so far is to start out in an enemy color pair. Wedges share enemy pairs rather than allied, so starting with the enemy pair leaves you more open for your third color. Splashing for both wedges with an enemy colored core to your deck could be a viable strategy as well.
For example, if you start drafting UG, you can draft cards from either temur R or sultai B as the draft progresses. 3-color fixing for either wedge will still be playable no matter which you end up in as well.
WMCQ today almost went well; I was 1st after swiss and up a game in the semis after having played the first game pretty greatly (I think, at least), but I couldn't keep the momentum and probably made some suboptimal plays, so I lost the next two games. Sorta embarrassing that I did better in constructed than in limited though.
The Norwegian team ended up being quite decent though. All the players have Pro Tour experience and are among the better players in the country, so I think they have a shot with some preparations. Though obviously, Norwegians only play limited and so they won't be prepared. But I'm just saying.
The pool below is shy by 1-2 cards, but suffice to say that they were unplayable and wouldn't have altered your builds at all!
Here is what I built:
1 Elvish Mystic
1 Selfless Cathar
2 Runeclaw Bear
1 Raise the Alarm
1 Sungrace Pegasus
1 Heliod's Pilgrim
1 Netcaster Spider
1 Preeminent Captain
1 Living Totem
1 Juggernaut
1 Razorfoot Griffin
1 Charging Rhino
1 Triplicate Spirits
1 Seraph of the Masses
1 Lightning Strike
1 Verdant Haven
1 Haunted Plate Mail
1 Marked by Honor
1 Cone of Flame
1 Meteorite
1 Nissa, Worldwaker
1 Spectra Ward
7 Plains
7 Forest
2 Mountain
1 Evolving Wilds
Proud bearer of the Sigil of Distinction, bestowed by the Limited clan.
So I'd run WG with the Meteorites and splash the red removal, as a first inclination.
...Which seems to be what you did. Yay!
I'm not a big fan of the large amount of green in the deck, though. I'd try to go easy on my mana base and lower the green commitment (specifically Elvish Mystic and Charging Rhino, and also Haunted Plate Mail isn't great imo, *especially* in a Convoke deck). You have a good late game, Wall of Essence is totally fine for you. Bronze Sable is obviously not great but who cares about your early game, you've got Nissa and Triplicate Spirits, and the Sable gets you there better than Rhino does. And the second Meteorite is just more generally useful than Plate Mail. Lastly, I say dump two Forest for 2 Plains and be happy you have a consistently performing mana base.
Plate Mail is great, especially in a Convoke deck. It's at its best when it's turning irrelevant 1/1s into must-answer threats.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
You're getting a big stat boost. One enough to turn even the smallest creature into something your opponent must spend one or two cards on. Even if your opponent kills your creature in response, they've still spent a removal spell on your 1/1 token.
The weakness of the Convoke deck is the inability to break through defenses, since your guys tend to be smaller. You can get a great draw of raise into triplicate into seraph, but if your opponent has removal for the seraph and a spider for the spirits, suddenly you can't do much. Plate Mail is a finisher which can't be hit by most removal.
Practice for Khans of Tarkir Limited:
Draft: (#1) (#2) (#3) (#4) (#5)
I'm surprised you'd cut Charging Rhino. I've found myself liking that card more and more in M15 as it's text makes it really difficult to block effectively, and it also fills a pretty big hole in my creature curve. I think the ability to draw into 1-2 fatties is important in just about any deck, especially in sealed.
The last few cuts were tough, and I agree that Haunted Plate Mail is a double edged sword at best. It can be utterly dominant in a variety of situations, but the equip cost is soooo expensive. Sene makes a good point with Sungrace Pegasus though, and I did live that dream for at least one game in round 3. 10 point life swings are no joke!
Proud bearer of the Sigil of Distinction, bestowed by the Limited clan.
(I'm on on this site much anymore. If you want to get in touch it's probably best to email me: dom@heffalumps.org)
Forum Awards: Best Writer 2005, Best Limited Strategist 2005-2012
5CB PotM - June 2005, November 2005, February 2006, April 2008, May 2008, Feb 2009
MTGSalvation Articles: 1-20, plus guest appearance on MTGCast #86!
<Limited Clan>
Sounds fun!
I drafted a do nothing U/B cube deck last night, promptly got smoked by a Boros aggro deck in round one then proceeded to have no opponents show up for rounds two or three. Why do people join the swiss queue if they don't intend to play all three rounds?
Proud bearer of the Sigil of Distinction, bestowed by the Limited clan.
1 Lifebane Zombie
1 AEther Adept
1 Phyrexian Rager
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Nekrataal
1 Dungeon Geists
1 Shriekmaw
1 Mulldrifter
1 Thragtusk
1 Indrik Stomphowler
1 Riftwing Cloudskate
1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1 Palinchron
1 Thoughtseize
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Impulse
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Pernicious Deed
1 RECURRING NIGHTMARE
1 Treachery
1 Far/Away
1 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Watery Grave
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Woodland Cemetery
1 Treetop Village
5 Island
4 Swamp
1 Forest
Best Recurring Nightmare ever. I even managed to live the dream once, going off with Palinchron and being able to gain infinite life, infinite creatures, bounce my opponent's board and draw as many cards as I want. Theoretically, of course, because with Modo being the (censored) program it is, I could only do enough iterations to bounce some problematic permanents and create a lethal board.
In the final I got a 4-for-1 with my maindeck Nausea.
Edit: Second TSE draft, four creatures this time. Would have played 0, but didn't have quite enough playables for that. R/B mono wrath control that finishes things off with Fanning the Flames. Great fun
I opened Abzan, got a fairly fantastic pool. Even unlocked the "all my five creatures have first strike and deathtouch" achievement. I gotta say, having a set with quality removal in it (and not just like a token Murder or something, but LOTS of removal) is super refreshing. I started out running three or so removal spells in a fairly tempo heavy deck, but at every stage I kept taking stuff out for more answers, until I found myself running with stuff like Dead Drop and Erase. Ended up taking 2nd place (again, sigh); lost in the finals against another Abzan pool.
Instant speed removal is just unbelievably important in this format, particularly against Abzan. The Outlast guys are soooo good to be able to kill when you want, and cards like Suppression Field are even more awesome to be able to take out. I had both Murderous Cut and Utter End, and both were complete all-stars.
Red is terrible, since none of their stuff is actually must-kill, and the tempo is just not that much better than what you can get in every other color. Blue isn't bad at all.