What is the consensus on trading values and on the fairness of trading with people much younger than yourself?
I found myself in the following situation the other day:
A young boy walked into my LGS. He is known for spending a lot of money to the store owner, who openly gouges, to buy singles of planeswalkers for his "collection". In the months prior to the banning, the young man purchased a Jace the Mindsculptor for $120.
Following the banning and the price cratering, the young boy was somewhat upset as he had spent the vast majority of his time pulling out his binder and saying "Look at my $120 car, its the most expensive card ever" and so on and so forth. And I'm certain there's some failing on the parts of the parents in terms of money management, but thats neither here nor there.
The other day, he came into the store rather dejected as he was now aware of Jace's banning and price cratering. He in turn now believed his card to be worthless, and asked if anyone wanted to trade for it. And of course the entire store jumped on him like a pack of wild hyenas when he said he valued it at $2.
As it happened, he ended up coming to me, and asking if I wanted to trade for it, and I said sure. We put the Jace at $45, which it was according to eBay prices for the evening, and in the deal I gave him a Garruk Primal Hunter which we put at $30 as well as an assortment of other cards for his monogreen deck, including a few Dungrove Elders, a couple of Swiftfoot Boots, and so forth.
The Store owner is now saying things to the effect of "I like to swindle children" and so forth, which is quite irritating given his business survives on him charging children and parents $20 for pre-co decks and valuing revised Lord of the Pits at $20.
I'm not certain if I should have even dealt with someone this young. I was more concerned when another player offered him two World Quellers for the Jace and the young boy was interested, and wanted to at least attempt to do right by him. Incidentally, he only plays Mono-Green and Mono-White, and is obviously quite terrible at the game.
I understand theres an inherent unfairness in dealing with people who are so young that they lack the skills to properly manage their collection and gauge values.
When faced with a situation like this, I think it's best just to let every party involved know the actual value of their cards. You'll get some mean looks from people who want to swindle the ignorant, but all commerce should be done with full understanding of the values involved.
You know what, a deal is fair as long as both parties are happy and will continue to be happy. I'd say you did quite right by the young man and there is certainly nothing inherently wrong with trading with a youngster, but you should try to be nice about it, as you were.
If someone came up to me and offered me a Jace for two World Quellers, I'd make it very clear that the deal is lopsided in my favour, and would you like something else as well? If they say no, they're happy as it is, I'll just take the trade. Like I said, as long as they're happy and won't feel later like you swindled them I think it's fine.
As for the store owner, it's pretty scummy that he acts so intentionally about it (and it will likely bite him later), but frankly, every store or toy or marketing campaign tries really hard to swindle little children. As long as the kids are happy about it, I don't see a problem.
When faced with a situation like this, I think it's best just to let every party involved know the actual value of their cards. You'll get some mean looks from people who want to swindle the ignorant, but all commerce should be done with full understanding of the values involved.
I can understand that. Like I said, I always pull out my cellphone before any trading. But at my LGS store there's quite an atmosphere of not butting in on someone else's deal. For example, I saw this very same child trade a foil Wurmcoil Engine for a Chandra Ablaze, Liege of the Tangle, and Eldrazi Conscription. I walked in on the very tail end of the deal, after they were putting away the cards and the gentlemen told me what he traded, but after that incident, I became rather irked at the behavior.
I was just curious if what I did, while in terms of money was identical, might have been ethically incorrect
You know what, a deal is fair as long as both parties are happy and will continue to be happy. I'd say you did quite right by the young man and there is certainly nothing inherently wrong with trading with a youngster, but you should try to be nice about it, as you were.
If someone came up to me and offered me a Jace for two World Quellers, I'd make it very clear that the deal is lopsided in my favour, and would you like something else as well? If they say no, they're happy as it is, I'll just take the trade. Like I said, as long as they're happy and won't feel later like you swindled them I think it's fine.
As for the store owner, it's pretty scummy that he acts so intentionally about it (and it will likely bite him later), but frankly, every store or toy or marketing campaign tries really hard to swindle little children. As long as the kids are happy about it, I don't see a problem.
My issue isn't the way he conducts business; an uneducated consumer digs his or her own grave. Its just him besmirching my dealings is like an obese man telling you to watch your weight.
I can understand that. Like I said, I always pull out my cellphone before any trading. But at my LGS store there's quite an atmosphere of not butting in on someone else's deal.
Giving people accurate information can only be construed as "butting in" if someone is trying to lie about the value of their cards.
I don't have a problem with people trading cards that are lopsided in value, but it's important that all parties understand the values involved. If they are fine with that, no problem.
I don't think there was anything ethically incorrect about it. You checked the price and proceeded as such. The trade wasn't even that unfair, sounds like you made it fairly even. I wouldn't feel bad about making that trade. While there are certain ethical responsibilities when trading, informing the other trader of your opinion of valuation and possible trends of the card is NOT one of them. $45 was the going rate at the time, and it is not your responsibility to tell your trade partner that this is a result of post-banning hysteria and that the price will most likely rise again. All in all, it sounds like some people are jealous of your trade and are being quite hypocritical. And, for what it's worth, I treat this situation very differently if my trading partner is my age or older, and I in no way feel that it is my responsibility to inform them of the value of their cards. If you're old enough to pay bills and have car payments, you're old enough to look up the values of your cards, and if you don't care about store prices, why should I?
Trading is a bit odd to me sometimes. There are some people that trade solely on "trade credit". But I've never really trade like that. I have a collection that spans 15ish years and alot of guys have only played since the last expansion or two so alot of times they really don't have anything of value compared to what they see in my binders.
But if im not using it I see no reason why someone shouldn't get some enjoyment out of the cards just because they don't have enough trade credit. I've made quite a few lopsided trades to guys just to give them something they wanted and I wasn't using.
4 enlightened tutors for 4 tome scours
4 jace tms for 4 unwinding clocks
etc
But because I trade them so well if I am looking for anything its amazing how quickly these guys will go out of their way to try to find it for me. I couldn't find shelldock isle anywhere and one of the guys I gave some emrakuls to actually went to a ptq and traded for them for me and another one gave me a tolarian acedemy to finish my play set and a winter and spring factory for some type 2 stuff that waent worth much.
So basically if you trade good usually you will be traded good in return. It might not be soon but most people remember when you do them a solid and you will be surprised when they can help you out in return.
So the ones that try to screw people tend to eventually be found out and aren't traded with anymore
I know how that feels. Back when I was trying to build my Pride of the Clouds deck, someone offered the card to me, trying to get Birds of Paradise, Sensei's Divining Top and Verdant Catacombs. Luckily, I knew the value of these cards, so I didn't trade. Anyways, I'm pretty skeptical about trading most of the time because I'm always wary of giving up good cards.
It's always nice to trade with people who are more familiar with the prices. They'll even acknowledge if the trade is even and whatnot.
The Store owner is now saying things to the effect of "I like to swindle children" and so forth, which is quite irritating given his business survives on him charging children and parents $20 for pre-co decks and valuing revised Lord of the Pits at $20.
That is disgusting - and sounds illegal.
It is probably good that you traded him. Because he would probably kept trying to trade it and eventually been ripped off. I think you treated him with fairness and that's the best thing you can do.
I treat this situation very differently if my trading partner is my age or older, and I in no way feel that it is my responsibility to inform them of the value of their cards. If you're old enough to pay bills and have car payments, you're old enough to look up the values of your cards
I feel more or less the same but extend it to if you are old enough to be in a game shop and making trades its up to you to know what your cards are worth. This may seem unfair but with how easy it is to input the name of a card in Google and find a price. If you cant figure out what something is worth i really do not feel bad about seeing someone get ripped off. If they were comfortable enough with the transaction to go through with it. The only time i will but in is with a good friend or family member as other wise i hardly see it as any of my business.
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I really do not care how old the person is, I try to ensure that I do not rip people off and that if I see a trade that looks lopsided I ask about what the logic is behind the trade.
Some people may not know that a card has gone up or down in value recently, so this stops scams and unfair trades that people thought were fair.
As for the store owner, he can do what he wants with his business, but I would not buy from him. The only reason that I buy from a store rather than online is because I like the owner at my LGS.
Sadly, people are greedy, so stuff like this must be dealt with, even if we would rather not. Someone has to stand up for those who are too trusting and do not know what they are doing in a trade, might as well be me.
Sadly, people are greedy, so stuff like this must be dealt with, even if we would rather not. Someone has to stand up for those who are too trusting and do not know what they are doing in a trade, might as well be me.
This may come off as cold but if someone gets blatently ripped off in a trade, they deserve it. Look at something like this, at my lgs say a kid brings in a foil jace 2.0 and someone offers to trade for it. the kid picks out 5-10 cards totaling maybe 20 bucks. SHould the guy getting the better deal be obliged to disclose hey you know your card is worth 10 times more than what you picked. No. If you dont know what your doing in a trade and get ripped, sucks for ya but learn from it and try not to let it happen again.
There is no reason to step in to a strangers transaction
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Currently Playing 1994 Magic The Rack Type 1: B/W Zombies Modern: Kuldotha Red Legacy: Pox, Oath Vintag: 10 Proxy Merfolk Pauper: Pestilence, UG Threshold EDH: Karn, Roon, Sliver Queen, Xiahou Dun, Arcanus
This may come off as cold but if someone gets blatently ripped off in a trade, they deserve it. Look at something like this, at my lgs say a kid brings in a foil jace 2.0 and someone offers to trade for it. the kid picks out 5-10 cards totaling maybe 20 bucks. SHould the guy getting the better deal be obliged to disclose hey you know your card is worth 10 times more than what you picked. No. If you dont know what your doing in a trade and get ripped, sucks for ya but learn from it and try not to let it happen again.
There is no reason to step in to a strangers transaction
So the way to make kids learn is to create situations to make them so jaded about trading that they slowly become the guys who want to rips others off? I tend to observe most trades, usually not saying much unless it's incredibly lopsided, however because kids tend to be much less informed than the average magic player, I will attempt to make sure that the trade is correct. It's more important to let newer players have a good experience when dealing with the game, than it is to let some neckbeard get a "good deal".
You know what, a deal is fair as long as both parties are happy and will continue to be happy. I'd say you did quite right by the young man and there is certainly nothing inherently wrong with trading with a youngster, but you should try to be nice about it, as you were.
If someone came up to me and offered me a Jace for two World Quellers, I'd make it very clear that the deal is lopsided in my favour, and would you like something else as well? If they say no, they're happy as it is, I'll just take the trade. Like I said, as long as they're happy and won't feel later like you swindled them I think it's fine.
As for the store owner, it's pretty scummy that he acts so intentionally about it (and it will likely bite him later), but frankly, every store or toy or marketing campaign tries really hard to swindle little children. As long as the kids are happy about it, I don't see a problem.
I agree with this for the most part. However, it's really difficult to tell if someone is going to be happy with the trade in the future. As a matter of fact something like this happened to me pretty recently;
My friend and I share a healthy pool of cards, with the only rule being that if I buy/trade something for a specific deck I get to use that card until I'm done with said deck. Just after the MBS launch party (that Saturday, I believe) one of our more competitive players (who attends SCG Opens as long as they're within 500 miles) had a foil Tezz that he wanted to trade. At the time regular Tezz was priced at ~$30, so we agreed to value it at ~$50. We gave him an incredibly solid deal on it, actually giving him a touch more (because he usually gives us pretty good deals as well). It seemed like almost over night that he jumped in price ridiculously - for a while the foil one hovered close to $100 if I recall correctly.
Needless to say the next Friday we saw him and he was pretty upset and really, really regretted trading it away. At the point, there was really nothing we could do, though. We felt bad for him, but it's not like we were going to offer him more stuff in trade. He seemed pretty sour towards us for a couple of weeks - and even now on SCG the foil Tezz is at $60.
A little bit closer to topic;
If a younger (13 or younger) offers to trade with me, I bust out my laptop . That way we're both looking at the same prices. If someone else is trying to swindle them considerably, I'll do my best to intervene. I've back off a few times because the kid got irritated, but I've never backed off because the older player got irritated.
In an eight player game, is anything good? Don't you just sit there countering combos until someone genesis waves for 42 after all the blue players tap out fighting over a bribery?
So the way to make kids learn is to create situations to make them so jaded about trading that they slowly become the guys who want to rips others off?
That's not what he said, Mr. Strawman. Argue his points, not points he didn't make.
I tend to observe most trades, usually not saying much unless it's incredibly lopsided, however because kids tend to be much less informed than the average magic player, I will attempt to make sure that the trade is correct. It's more important to let newer players have a good experience when dealing with the game, than it is to let some neckbeard get a "good deal".
Sometimes it's probably right to intervene in a kid's trade if he is about to get ripped off super hard, but maybe it isn't always right. Isn't it better for the kid to learn with magic cards that she has to protect herself in trades, as opposed to learning it while trading a car or something else like that? I believe so.
So I think it just depends on each situation. If the kid is really about to get ripped off very hard, then step in and inform the kid of the values and teach him how to protect himself. If you know the kid though and think that he will only learn his lesson through personal experience, and I bet that many, many kids are like this, and if he isn't about to get super ripped off, then it might be better to let the deal go through, then explain what happened and how to protect himself.
I kind of wish everyone just felt like doing it honestly with whoever they traded with, no matter what. Doesn't mean someone can't make a little money on a card someone desperately wants but don't gouge.
You have to watch sometimes with younger kids though. I played Pokemon when it first came out and went to leagues to help out run the games.
I bought a foil Alakhazam off an 8 year old for $75 cash and had a mother about ten minutes later asking why I gave a kid that young that kind of money. She wouldn't accept the answer that's what it was worth.
I was just curious if what I did, while in terms of money was identical, might have been ethically incorrect
I mostly stopped trading long ago. It bugged too much how often people obviously would try to be on the better side of the trade and take advantage of you - even if these people are otherwise good friends. This has become worse since you can very precisely look up a card`s value on the internet. They go for your money rares and quote the online price that's suits them best (if at all)
Imho, trading cards if one of these things that seduces people to bad behaviour if given the opportunity (greed, enviousness) and it gets considerably worse if kids are involved. I've seen people trade Duals for Craw Worms and then justify it by something like "If I don't do it, someone else will".
Anyway, the one thing I find absolutely okay is to trade for cards piles that are equal in value. Even if that means that the first pile is like JTMS and the second pile is like 50 junk rares. As long as you'd have to pay ~ the same price for each pile separately and both sides are happy with the trade.
The biggest ripoff I've seen is actually one of my friends. He's six years older than me, I'm 20. He wanted to finish his casual based elf deck, and saw Nissa in some guy's binder. The guy would only trade Nissa away for Gideon Jura, that was the only card he was interested in. Bear in mind, this was back when Jura went for $30 easy. I've always avoided the guy, he's so shifty and will purposefully deceive the naive just for a bit for cash. I told him the true value of Nissa post trade and he
At my LGS, whenever someone was trying to make a trade, they'd turn to someone with a smartphone to ask the value of each card. In larger trades, it could get very tedious to look up each card and try to balance the transaction. That's why I decided to make my MtG Trader app.
Sometimes, especially with my friends, I don't get so specific on trade value. But it helps to have resources on-hand.
I'm used to dealing with people who only cares about profits and neglect other people's feelings. It sucks but it's the kind of world I'm living in. Hope that kid learns from the bad experience and becomes wiser in the future...
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Gonna leave this account now cause many friends have access on this one and had posted in the past.
I mostly stopped trading long ago. It bugged too much how often people obviously would try to be on the better side of the trade and take advantage of you - even if these people are otherwise good friends. This has become worse since you can very precisely look up a card`s value on the internet. They go for your money rares and quote the online price that's suits them best (if at all)
Imho, trading cards if one of these things that seduces people to bad behaviour if given the opportunity (greed, enviousness) and it gets considerably worse if kids are involved. I've seen people trade Duals for Craw Worms and then justify it by something like "If I don't do it, someone else will".
Anyway, the one thing I find absolutely okay is to trade for cards piles that are equal in value. Even if that means that the first pile is like JTMS and the second pile is like 50 junk rares. As long as you'd have to pay ~ the same price for each pile separately and both sides are happy with the trade.
Those are no where near equal in value. 50 junk rares is worth roughly $5-$6.50, whereas JTMS is worth $56. There in lies the problem (or advantage) with trading with people who are uninformed about bulk rares and their value, you can trade them $5-$10 for $50-$60 rather easily, but when you try to offer them a truely fair deal for something such as your JTMS to their bulk rares, they think they are getting ripped off. No, valuing bulk at $0.10 is fair, but they think 560 rares is ten times the value of what it really is (putting $1 on any rare, no matter what). Will I make profit picking up your bulk rares at $0.10 each? Yes, I'll average a little over 25% (I have someone who is a deal who consistantly gives me 12.5 cents on them), but then again, good luck trying to trade for that 25% along the way. I say a little over 25% because I usually let bulk sit in my binder a week or so before liquidating it and some trading happens there.
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Odds of pulling a JtMS from a WWK pack: 1:80
Odds of pulling any specific rare in 5th Edition: 1:133
So, on average, 1 JtMS every 2.222 boxes or 1 Bird of Paradise every 3.694 boxes. Yeah, I'll take my odds with Mythics, they are easier to get than old rares.
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I feel like the age of either party doesn't matter. Not everyone has the ability to be completely informed on prices and values. I'm lucky enough to have a phone I can pull out at any time and look up the value of a card; not everyone is. If you see someone getting majorly ripped off, it should be somewhere within your good nature as a human being to at least say something to them.
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EDH WBRKaalia of the VastRBW BChainer, Dementia MasterB Legacy 0Manaless Dredge0 RGoblinsR Standard RBWThe AristocratsWBR
My trades with other people go off of a couple of ideals. Basically, types of traders who would do trades like you gave in the example come in two breeds:
1) The newbie. For these kids of people, young players especially--I'm an elementary education major, I have a soft spot for kids--I always usually end up being more generous. The new players tend to not think about value trading, which is good if they're with other new players and can rip each other off all they want. But when they come to trade with me, if I see something I need, I'll usually throw in a few bucks extra for trade with them. If they're giving me a Skitherix(SP?) because they don't run black, I'll give them what they want and a little bit extra so they come out ahead. It's how they have to start playing the game. If you don't come out ahead occasionally, you end up giving up.
For these new players, if they get a card that's worth $5+, I'll usually tell them to get another card that's worth about that much. If they have any questions before trading, they're more than welcome to ask me! I'll set their trades straight, my iPhone can look up prices and demand, and I'm more than happy to make sure they get their money's worth. A Solemn Simulacrum should NEVER be traded for a Day of Judgement for a new player. It's a sin for anyone who offers.
That's basically my wrap up for those kinds of players. Kids don't know what they have... help them know what they have. Don't go off Ebay prices, those are played or often are days away from ending so finding a Jace at $45 isn't going to be hard. The site this site links to when you link a card will give you a better idea of prices on your cards. Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2) This type of player is like one that I met the other day. He wanted my playset of Tormod's Crypt. His offer? Show and Tell. Now I was sure to tell him the value on these cards. Tormod's Crypt is... well about $1. Show and Tell is $30 give or take.
He said he really wanted it and didn't care, and then he showed me his legacy deck and a couple beta nines. These kinds of players are fun to run into. Because they don't HAVE to care about the value of cards any more, they have everything they need. Show and Tell was nothing compared to his Mint grade 7 Beta Mox Jet, and his Life From the Loam legacy deck had all dual lands needed set in their comfy little place. For these kinds of traders, just give them what they want. Chances are, they're not losing anything of importance.
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Reparations ---> The best flavor text in Magic ever and forever, courtesy of Mark Rosewater.
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I found myself in the following situation the other day:
A young boy walked into my LGS. He is known for spending a lot of money to the store owner, who openly gouges, to buy singles of planeswalkers for his "collection". In the months prior to the banning, the young man purchased a Jace the Mindsculptor for $120.
Following the banning and the price cratering, the young boy was somewhat upset as he had spent the vast majority of his time pulling out his binder and saying "Look at my $120 car, its the most expensive card ever" and so on and so forth. And I'm certain there's some failing on the parts of the parents in terms of money management, but thats neither here nor there.
The other day, he came into the store rather dejected as he was now aware of Jace's banning and price cratering. He in turn now believed his card to be worthless, and asked if anyone wanted to trade for it. And of course the entire store jumped on him like a pack of wild hyenas when he said he valued it at $2.
As it happened, he ended up coming to me, and asking if I wanted to trade for it, and I said sure. We put the Jace at $45, which it was according to eBay prices for the evening, and in the deal I gave him a Garruk Primal Hunter which we put at $30 as well as an assortment of other cards for his monogreen deck, including a few Dungrove Elders, a couple of Swiftfoot Boots, and so forth.
The Store owner is now saying things to the effect of "I like to swindle children" and so forth, which is quite irritating given his business survives on him charging children and parents $20 for pre-co decks and valuing revised Lord of the Pits at $20.
I'm not certain if I should have even dealt with someone this young. I was more concerned when another player offered him two World Quellers for the Jace and the young boy was interested, and wanted to at least attempt to do right by him. Incidentally, he only plays Mono-Green and Mono-White, and is obviously quite terrible at the game.
I understand theres an inherent unfairness in dealing with people who are so young that they lack the skills to properly manage their collection and gauge values.
If someone came up to me and offered me a Jace for two World Quellers, I'd make it very clear that the deal is lopsided in my favour, and would you like something else as well? If they say no, they're happy as it is, I'll just take the trade. Like I said, as long as they're happy and won't feel later like you swindled them I think it's fine.
As for the store owner, it's pretty scummy that he acts so intentionally about it (and it will likely bite him later), but frankly, every store or toy or marketing campaign tries really hard to swindle little children. As long as the kids are happy about it, I don't see a problem.
I can understand that. Like I said, I always pull out my cellphone before any trading. But at my LGS store there's quite an atmosphere of not butting in on someone else's deal. For example, I saw this very same child trade a foil Wurmcoil Engine for a Chandra Ablaze, Liege of the Tangle, and Eldrazi Conscription. I walked in on the very tail end of the deal, after they were putting away the cards and the gentlemen told me what he traded, but after that incident, I became rather irked at the behavior.
I was just curious if what I did, while in terms of money was identical, might have been ethically incorrect
My issue isn't the way he conducts business; an uneducated consumer digs his or her own grave. Its just him besmirching my dealings is like an obese man telling you to watch your weight.
I don't have a problem with people trading cards that are lopsided in value, but it's important that all parties understand the values involved. If they are fine with that, no problem.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=341469
But if im not using it I see no reason why someone shouldn't get some enjoyment out of the cards just because they don't have enough trade credit. I've made quite a few lopsided trades to guys just to give them something they wanted and I wasn't using.
4 enlightened tutors for 4 tome scours
4 jace tms for 4 unwinding clocks
etc
But because I trade them so well if I am looking for anything its amazing how quickly these guys will go out of their way to try to find it for me. I couldn't find shelldock isle anywhere and one of the guys I gave some emrakuls to actually went to a ptq and traded for them for me and another one gave me a tolarian acedemy to finish my play set and a winter and spring factory for some type 2 stuff that waent worth much.
So basically if you trade good usually you will be traded good in return. It might not be soon but most people remember when you do them a solid and you will be surprised when they can help you out in return.
So the ones that try to screw people tend to eventually be found out and aren't traded with anymore
It's always nice to trade with people who are more familiar with the prices. They'll even acknowledge if the trade is even and whatnot.
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That is disgusting - and sounds illegal.
It is probably good that you traded him. Because he would probably kept trying to trade it and eventually been ripped off. I think you treated him with fairness and that's the best thing you can do.
I feel more or less the same but extend it to if you are old enough to be in a game shop and making trades its up to you to know what your cards are worth. This may seem unfair but with how easy it is to input the name of a card in Google and find a price. If you cant figure out what something is worth i really do not feel bad about seeing someone get ripped off. If they were comfortable enough with the transaction to go through with it. The only time i will but in is with a good friend or family member as other wise i hardly see it as any of my business.
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Legacy: Pox, Oath
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Pauper: Pestilence, UG Threshold
EDH: Karn, Roon, Sliver Queen, Xiahou Dun, Arcanus
Some people may not know that a card has gone up or down in value recently, so this stops scams and unfair trades that people thought were fair.
As for the store owner, he can do what he wants with his business, but I would not buy from him. The only reason that I buy from a store rather than online is because I like the owner at my LGS.
Sadly, people are greedy, so stuff like this must be dealt with, even if we would rather not. Someone has to stand up for those who are too trusting and do not know what they are doing in a trade, might as well be me.
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This may come off as cold but if someone gets blatently ripped off in a trade, they deserve it. Look at something like this, at my lgs say a kid brings in a foil jace 2.0 and someone offers to trade for it. the kid picks out 5-10 cards totaling maybe 20 bucks. SHould the guy getting the better deal be obliged to disclose hey you know your card is worth 10 times more than what you picked. No. If you dont know what your doing in a trade and get ripped, sucks for ya but learn from it and try not to let it happen again.
There is no reason to step in to a strangers transaction
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1994 Magic The Rack
Type 1: B/W Zombies
Modern: Kuldotha Red
Legacy: Pox, Oath
Vintag: 10 Proxy Merfolk
Pauper: Pestilence, UG Threshold
EDH: Karn, Roon, Sliver Queen, Xiahou Dun, Arcanus
So the way to make kids learn is to create situations to make them so jaded about trading that they slowly become the guys who want to rips others off? I tend to observe most trades, usually not saying much unless it's incredibly lopsided, however because kids tend to be much less informed than the average magic player, I will attempt to make sure that the trade is correct. It's more important to let newer players have a good experience when dealing with the game, than it is to let some neckbeard get a "good deal".
My H/W list
I agree with this for the most part. However, it's really difficult to tell if someone is going to be happy with the trade in the future. As a matter of fact something like this happened to me pretty recently;
My friend and I share a healthy pool of cards, with the only rule being that if I buy/trade something for a specific deck I get to use that card until I'm done with said deck. Just after the MBS launch party (that Saturday, I believe) one of our more competitive players (who attends SCG Opens as long as they're within 500 miles) had a foil Tezz that he wanted to trade. At the time regular Tezz was priced at ~$30, so we agreed to value it at ~$50. We gave him an incredibly solid deal on it, actually giving him a touch more (because he usually gives us pretty good deals as well). It seemed like almost over night that he jumped in price ridiculously - for a while the foil one hovered close to $100 if I recall correctly.
Needless to say the next Friday we saw him and he was pretty upset and really, really regretted trading it away. At the point, there was really nothing we could do, though. We felt bad for him, but it's not like we were going to offer him more stuff in trade. He seemed pretty sour towards us for a couple of weeks - and even now on SCG the foil Tezz is at $60.
A little bit closer to topic;
If a younger (13 or younger) offers to trade with me, I bust out my laptop . That way we're both looking at the same prices. If someone else is trying to swindle them considerably, I'll do my best to intervene. I've back off a few times because the kid got irritated, but I've never backed off because the older player got irritated.
Thanks to DarkNightCavalier
That's not what he said, Mr. Strawman. Argue his points, not points he didn't make.
Sometimes it's probably right to intervene in a kid's trade if he is about to get ripped off super hard, but maybe it isn't always right. Isn't it better for the kid to learn with magic cards that she has to protect herself in trades, as opposed to learning it while trading a car or something else like that? I believe so.
So I think it just depends on each situation. If the kid is really about to get ripped off very hard, then step in and inform the kid of the values and teach him how to protect himself. If you know the kid though and think that he will only learn his lesson through personal experience, and I bet that many, many kids are like this, and if he isn't about to get super ripped off, then it might be better to let the deal go through, then explain what happened and how to protect himself.
You have to watch sometimes with younger kids though. I played Pokemon when it first came out and went to leagues to help out run the games.
I bought a foil Alakhazam off an 8 year old for $75 cash and had a mother about ten minutes later asking why I gave a kid that young that kind of money. She wouldn't accept the answer that's what it was worth.
Manaless Dredge
Standard:
Jund Birthing Pod Toolbox
I mostly stopped trading long ago. It bugged too much how often people obviously would try to be on the better side of the trade and take advantage of you - even if these people are otherwise good friends. This has become worse since you can very precisely look up a card`s value on the internet. They go for your money rares and quote the online price that's suits them best (if at all)
Imho, trading cards if one of these things that seduces people to bad behaviour if given the opportunity (greed, enviousness) and it gets considerably worse if kids are involved. I've seen people trade Duals for Craw Worms and then justify it by something like "If I don't do it, someone else will".
Anyway, the one thing I find absolutely okay is to trade for cards piles that are equal in value. Even if that means that the first pile is like JTMS and the second pile is like 50 junk rares. As long as you'd have to pay ~ the same price for each pile separately and both sides are happy with the trade.
My gallery of altered cards
Sometimes, especially with my friends, I don't get so specific on trade value. But it helps to have resources on-hand.
Two Score, Minus Two or: A Stargate Tail
(Image by totallynotabrony)
Those are no where near equal in value. 50 junk rares is worth roughly $5-$6.50, whereas JTMS is worth $56. There in lies the problem (or advantage) with trading with people who are uninformed about bulk rares and their value, you can trade them $5-$10 for $50-$60 rather easily, but when you try to offer them a truely fair deal for something such as your JTMS to their bulk rares, they think they are getting ripped off. No, valuing bulk at $0.10 is fair, but they think 560 rares is ten times the value of what it really is (putting $1 on any rare, no matter what). Will I make profit picking up your bulk rares at $0.10 each? Yes, I'll average a little over 25% (I have someone who is a deal who consistantly gives me 12.5 cents on them), but then again, good luck trying to trade for that 25% along the way. I say a little over 25% because I usually let bulk sit in my binder a week or so before liquidating it and some trading happens there.
Odds of pulling any specific rare in 5th Edition: 1:133
So, on average, 1 JtMS every 2.222 boxes or 1 Bird of Paradise every 3.694 boxes. Yeah, I'll take my odds with Mythics, they are easier to get than old rares.
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EDH
WBRKaalia of the VastRBW
BChainer, Dementia MasterB
Legacy
0Manaless Dredge0
RGoblinsR
Standard
RBWThe AristocratsWBR
1) The newbie. For these kids of people, young players especially--I'm an elementary education major, I have a soft spot for kids--I always usually end up being more generous. The new players tend to not think about value trading, which is good if they're with other new players and can rip each other off all they want. But when they come to trade with me, if I see something I need, I'll usually throw in a few bucks extra for trade with them. If they're giving me a Skitherix(SP?) because they don't run black, I'll give them what they want and a little bit extra so they come out ahead. It's how they have to start playing the game. If you don't come out ahead occasionally, you end up giving up.
For these new players, if they get a card that's worth $5+, I'll usually tell them to get another card that's worth about that much. If they have any questions before trading, they're more than welcome to ask me! I'll set their trades straight, my iPhone can look up prices and demand, and I'm more than happy to make sure they get their money's worth. A Solemn Simulacrum should NEVER be traded for a Day of Judgement for a new player. It's a sin for anyone who offers.
That's basically my wrap up for those kinds of players. Kids don't know what they have... help them know what they have. Don't go off Ebay prices, those are played or often are days away from ending so finding a Jace at $45 isn't going to be hard. The site this site links to when you link a card will give you a better idea of prices on your cards. Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2) This type of player is like one that I met the other day. He wanted my playset of Tormod's Crypt. His offer? Show and Tell. Now I was sure to tell him the value on these cards. Tormod's Crypt is... well about $1. Show and Tell is $30 give or take.
He said he really wanted it and didn't care, and then he showed me his legacy deck and a couple beta nines. These kinds of players are fun to run into. Because they don't HAVE to care about the value of cards any more, they have everything they need. Show and Tell was nothing compared to his Mint grade 7 Beta Mox Jet, and his Life From the Loam legacy deck had all dual lands needed set in their comfy little place. For these kinds of traders, just give them what they want. Chances are, they're not losing anything of importance.