About this deck
This list is to build a Fog deck using Maze's End as a primary win condition. It was created for multiplayer games with around 5 to 6 people.
Maze's End
Searching for a gate and bouncing to hand is a powerful ability. It is what the deck is trying to do. With a few extra tools we can do it multiple time a turn going from 7 gates to 10 in one phase.
Rites of Flourishing
This is the heart of what makes this deck works. Drawing more cards and playing more lands. Yes it does help everyone, and that is the point. Drawing into more fogs and playing more lands faster means we are better protected. The more creatures opponents play, the better our fogs get.
Amulet of Vigor
The best card to see in an opening hand. With this and Rites of Flourishing in play we can activate Maze's End multiple times on our turn. This is key as the gate Maze's End searches for no longer comes into play tapped and it can then be tapped immediately for mana to activate Maze's End again resulting in explosive plays.
Crackling Perimeter
A very effective alternate win condition that also does not require the combat phase.
Fog Constant Mists can be a better option, but often games can get close and 1 green mana is hard to beat. If you have a Crucible of Worlds it is a solid combo.
Batwing Brume
A fog that also kills token makers and Edric, Spymaster of Trest players. Our strongest fog, and it is my primary reason for having white and black mana generating gates when tutoring.
Riot Control
Life gain is huge. Rites of Flourishing can very easily cause the game to get out of hand. The more our opponents play, the more life we gain! This fog also prevents not just combat damage, but any damage. A good option against burn.
These kinds of decks don't make sense at a fundamental level because they assume that your opponents are dumb as bricks and/or completely and utterly incompetent. You have a card that says "you win the game" on it in a deck with 0 forms of persistent defense. The idea that you could Fog every attack phase from 5-6 opponents until you win the game is incredulous at best. While you could argue "but who would attack me?" my rebuttle would be "anyone with a modicum of intelligence" because you'd have to be a complete idiot to let an "I win the game" card go uncontested. While you could, in theory, sandbag Maze's End until the very end that plan also suffers the same problem. Each and every one of your opponents would have to be fairly inept/out of the loop if they couldn't figure out what your plan was. You also have to take into consideration the fact that even if you did somehow win with this deck once, what then? How could it possibly ever win another game? I just don't understand why anyone would want to play TurboFog in multiplayer in a list that doesn't use Glacial Chasm.
Also, in my experience Maze's End and Fog do not draw the entire table's attention. The idea that this deck can't work because it does not survive a relentless assault from all players in a multiplayer environment is hardly the point. In most cases, people who know this deck avoid attacking me because all of the value creatures with swords do not get triggers. Not to mention I'm the guy helping everyone draw more and play more. Sure when the guildgate count gets close to 10 people get worried, but that is not at all the scenario you have described.
Even without Maze's End, Crackling Perimeter along with Seedborn Muse can end the game quickly. The life gain fogs also add some resilience. Causing all players to draw and play more lands creates large board states fast. Usually there are far worse things on the table to deal with. Usually those things aren't sent at the fog player. It also allows players who are behind into the game. It can even make friends. When everyone does come at you? That's when Batwing Brume shines.
ps. You shouldn't come off offended that I posted this list.
ps. You shouldn't come off offended that I posted this list.
I'm not offended that you posted a list. I'm offended at how poorly you'd have to play a game of Magic in order to lose to it. That is, I'm not upset at you, I'm upset at how bad the players in your playgroup basically have to be. People are literally doing nothing while you cast a card that says "you win the game" or are, for some reason, allowing your 1-of Muse to survive and destroy them all. It makes actual 0 sense. Why? You have literally nothing for defense aside from Fogs. This has nothing to do with all-out attacking you. I would turn 1 creature sideways at you every combat phase. If everyone did that (like they should) you'd never win a game. Period. A single 2/2+ creature coming at you every turn from every player and you're drawing completely dead. I don't care how big/stalemated the board gets because everyone can send one creature at the person with literally no defense. No one is attacking anyways (in all likelihood) and so the extra blocker is completely meaningless. People could attack you for free for the entire game but they're choosing not to. That's not even remotely close to competent play. Only horrendously incompetent players could lose to this type of strategy. Poor threat assessment, poor play, poor decision making, etc. on a global scale is the only reason this deck is allowed to exist.
Comments such as 'I'm offended at how poorly you'd have to play a game of Magic in order to lose to it' are needlessly rude. Infraction for trolling - BlackVise
I'm not offended that you posted a list. I'm offended at how poorly you'd have to play a game of Magic in order to lose to it. That is, I'm not upset at you, I'm upset at how bad the players in your playgroup basically have to be. People are literally doing nothing while you cast a card that says "you win the game" or are, for some reason, allowing your 1-of Muse to survive and destroy them all. It makes actual 0 sense. Why? You have literally nothing for defense aside from Fogs. This has nothing to do with all-out attacking you. I would turn 1 creature sideways at you every combat phase. If everyone did that (like they should) you'd never win a game. Period. A single 2/2+ creature coming at you every turn from every player and you're drawing completely dead. I don't care how big/stalemated the board gets because everyone can send one creature at the person with literally no defense. No one is attacking anyways (in all likelihood) and so the extra blocker is completely meaningless. People could attack you for free for the entire game but they're choosing not to. That's not even remotely close to competent play. Only horrendously incompetent players could lose to this type of strategy. Poor threat assessment, poor play, poor decision making, etc. on a global scale is the only reason this deck is allowed to exist.
Here's my feedback for you. You're terrible at giving advice. For someone who has as many posts as you I'm actually embarrassed for you. And while I've tried to make your previous posts constructive, I am no longer interested in anything you have to say. You have not played this deck. All of your assumptions mean nothing. I suggest you browse some of the other forums (commander for instance) and learn how people give constructive feedback.
Picking fights is not allowed, warning for flaming - BlackVise
I can totally understand the reluctance players have to attack a player stuffed with Fog effects. This said, they can at least (and they should) deny you your [only] Seedborn Muse and wait until you´re tapped out which you will eventually and attack you in the process. You cannot garantee to hold a Fog effect all game long either. Turn 10 or whatever they will inevitably have big creatures out and you will likely have nothing to cover all attack phases against you. From there things go pretty damn fast, earlier lifegain involved or not. No deck is 100% attack proof but if your opponents want to find an opening to bring you down they will eventually find one despite the Fogs. The issue I see with this type of deck is that players giving up on attacking you are really playing poorly. If playing "smart" involves attacking you recklessly then I don't see how this deck can win and above all how you take pleasure out of being wacked turn after turn. There is no plan B and plan A is quite fragile in the sense that you rely on your opponents to realize too late that they should have attacked you earlier. They might make that mistake once, but if they do it again then I find the situation disturbing.
I agree with this exactly and it was what I think CZ was trying to say just in a bit more of a neutral tone. Having 16 fog effects will not matter when someone can attack you every single combat phase. You said at least 5 players which means by the end of turn 4 there will have been exactly 16 combat phases, it only gets worse with 6 players. Granted not every single person will attack you every single time and also yes there may be decks that don't even have creatures to attack with. Also not a lot of decks are attacking on turn 1 which would also effect my example and of course you wouldn't have to fog every single time since you could easily sink some damage with your initial starting HP and with the life you gain on some of your fogs. All of this set aside I still think it's a weak deck because you really don't have a defense and what happens by turn 5 or 6 when you've used a few fogs and may not have any in your hand and people are busting out insane creatures and not just 2/2's or 3/3's... One bad *COMBAT PHASE* not even a turn can end your game. Then you will have sat there and literally done nothing all game but pop gates out. It just sounds a bit boring and underpowered.
It reminds me of whenever I try to brew up a way to make the Honden shrines playable. Hint: They aren't.
While the creature count is low. Riot Control and Blunt the Assault have proven to be very good. The goal isn't to fog every attack phase. The goal is to fog when it is important, and using the life gain when we need it. It is ok to take a few points of damage early only to heal fog a few turns later.
Rites of Flourishing along with Otherworld Atlas speed the game up for all players. Threats will be played at a much faster pace. I've had an opponent go from missing 3 land drops on turn 5 with only 2 lands in play to top decking 3 lands and placing them directly into play. Back in the game. People appreciate that. This works to the deck's advantage.
If anyone has any advice on how to improve the concept that would be great. If everyone's goal is to make a deck that is as cut throat as possible, by all means this is not it. Can this deck win? Certainly. Does it guarantee a win? Of course not. (not the type of deck I'd want to play in multiplayer if it did) Does it impact and interact with the board? Every time.
Is this the Casual & Related Formats or did I miss my place?
I can totally understand the reluctance players have to attack a player stuffed with Fog effects. This said, they can at least (and they should) deny you your [only] Seedborn Muse and wait until you´re tapped out which you will eventually and attack you in the process. You cannot garantee to hold a Fog effect all game long either. Turn 10 or whatever they will inevitably have big creatures out and you will likely have nothing to cover all attack phases against you. From there things go pretty damn fast, earlier lifegain involved or not. No deck is 100% attack proof but if your opponents want to find an opening to bring you down they will eventually find one despite the Fogs. The issue I see with this type of deck is that players giving up on attacking you are really playing poorly. If playing "smart" involves attacking you recklessly then I don't see how this deck can win and above all how you take pleasure out of being wacked turn after turn. There is no plan B and plan A is quite fragile in the sense that you rely on your opponents to realize too late that they should have attacked you earlier. They might make that mistake once, but if they do it again then I find the situation disturbing.
I can totally understand the reluctance players have to attack a player stuffed with Fog effects.
(I don't, but...)
I completely agree with everything else, as well as CZ's comments.
First of all, Fog shouldn't even be in the list if Moment's Peace is an option. Heck, I'd much rather go with Constant Mists than Fog. They are so frail though...
A reuseable/permanent answer to defense is overwhelmingly 100x superior to Instant-type answers.
But this list seems very, very fragile and I would have utterly no hope (& I mean NONE) of piloting this deck and winning anywhere near consistently with it. My buddies would simply conclude, "Umm, keep attacking, he'll run out of cards," which is overwhelmingly going to be the correct answer.
And the idea that you are a champion of the players by allowing them to draw more cards is highly dubious, especially in my meta. If you were helping only ME, then I'd be more on board with you, but everyone realizes that we are ALL drawing a bunch of cards, so it's hardly a drawback to slow EVERYONE else down. Apologies, but it's just poor logic.
The sample deck that Indalecio posted is much more viable in my mind.
If your win condition is going to be playing a lot of land then this deck is dying for Burgeoning. That plus Amulet of Vigor and Maze's End gets your gates real quick. Throw in Seedborn Muse and you could easily win in the first 5-6 turns with a 5+ player game.
I made up a gate-deck with Maze's End.
And it kinda sucked, as it required the deck to be fully committed to one plan, regardless of the game state.
I like my decks to be flexible and have more than one way to win where possible.
I found Amulet of Vigor was not needed, as most of the time no one actually does anything relevant before turn 3 anyway, and that by using nothing but guildgates for lands made getting the colour's you needed made the deck unreliable.
Concentrating on the combo of Awakening & Crackling Perimeter is also very slow and requires a large proportion of the deck to support it, leaving little room for anything else, so I dropped that idea pretty quick too.
So the deck was okay, but it depended on Titan to make it work, and even then it was waaay slow and couldn't withstand committed attack, which is MASSIVE is MP.
I ended up breaking the deck to bits and trying instead to build a normal green stompy deck with large green creatures like Giant Adephage and co., and simply pop the Maze's End plus 10 single gate's as an alternative win.
But that reduced the efficiency of that deck too.
I have since decided that the Maze's End win-con is just too slow for my group with all their Exsanguinate's, Extort and the like to successfully compete, but it does have style point's if you can pull it off.
Good Luck
Note: I'm happy to say this deck has done quite well multiplayer and it wins often. I added Supreme Verdict to the line up to remove some of the issue creatures that kept popping up. Also, the comment about how poorly anyone would have to be to lose to this deck is worth a laugh to show the table after they lose to it.
That comment is still true, though. All they have to do is focus on you and you're dead. You don't have infinite fog.
This deck is not designed to take the entire table on and it should not be expected to. What other deck list comes under such scrutiny? When did the bar for Casual & Related Formats turn into the deck needs to survive against 4+ players vs it? It just isn't a realistic expectation, nor should it be.
Batwing Brume provides an alternate win con and it has killed people on the attack, especially in a token infested meta. When a player is on the attack and instead of me taking any damage (as they expected) they instead lose life - it is demoralizing and makes future attacks much more careful.
The idea that you could Fog every attack phase from 5-6 opponents until you win the game is incredulous at best.
I think this sums up the greatest misconception here. The idea isn't to fog every single attack phase. You only fog when you need to. With 8 life gain fog effects there is more than enough time to take a few hits, especially early on. It is a ridiculous thought or expectation that the deck should survive every single combat phase with everyone focusing it. And if that is truly the case then it most likely won the last game anyways.
You win a 4th of your games with an enchant that pokes everyone? Wow...
I can tell you this much, this deck wouldn't win a single game at my kitchen table. Even if you HAD infinite fog, all someone has to do is, say, destroy 2x Golgari Guildgates and you can't win.
You seem to take it personally when people are trying to give you honest feedback. It is the goal of the community here to better people's deck building (and therefore overall chance to succeed), and so to reject advice out of hand because it's not what you want to hear isn't wise.
If the deck somehow wins lots of games around your table, fine. If the people you play with never wise up and learn how to destroy enchants and a couple lands, that's fine. If that is good enough for you, that's fine. It's your prerogative. Just don't expect people here to confirm with you that this is a great deck that looks like it should win a whack of games. Because it wouldn't, and shouldn't, in any competent play group.
You seem to take it personally when people are trying to give you honest feedback. It is the goal of the community here to better people's deck building (and therefore overall chance to succeed), and so to reject advice out of hand because it's not what you want to hear isn't wise.
In his defense I stand by what I said but not the way I said it. I made it personal when I singled-out his players/their skill level/etc. so it makes sense to take a defensive stance on the subject. I could have used a little (see: a ****ton) more tact and avoided this type of nonsense. I do think that my generic argument is compelling/reasonable but I presented in such a poor manner that it lost any possible meaning. So yeah, it's my fault, not his.
EDIT: And to clarify my argument is that this type of deck loses when each player sends 1 creature at him each combat. In general people attack with one big/evasive creature and leave the rest on D and most take the path of least resistance. People who have nothing to protect themselves are almost always targeted from what I've seen but it's not by everything; it's by 1 moderately-sized critter per person. That is, this has nothing to do with alpha-strikes. It's about sending your spare critter to deal some damage against the person who can't defend himself. I should have just said that, but instead I decided to viciously insult his meta. Couldn't tell you why, but what's done is done :/.
i made a similar deck just to be a d**k in my play ground and sandbagged maze's end till i had all my gates only difference is i went defender heavy with 3 win conditions just in case. i went Mill aka Phenax, God of Deception, Maze's end and vent sentinel
This list is to build a Fog deck using Maze's End as a primary win condition. It was created for multiplayer games with around 5 to 6 people.
4 Gatecreeper Vine
ARTIFACT (2)
2 Amulet of Vigor
ENCHANTMENT (6)
4 Rites of Flourishing
2 Crackling Perimeter
INSTANT (16)
4 Fog
4 Batwing Brume
4 Riot Control
4 Blunt the Assault
3 Sylvan Scrying
4 Supreme Verdict
LAND (25)
3 Maze's End
3 Selesnya Guildgate
2 Gruul Guildgate
2 Simic Guildgate
2 Golgari Guildgate
2 Orzhov Guildgate
3 Azorius Guildgate
2 Dimir Guildgate
2 Boros Guildgate
2 Rakdos Guildgate
2 Izzet Guildgate
Strategy
Maze's End
Searching for a gate and bouncing to hand is a powerful ability. It is what the deck is trying to do. With a few extra tools we can do it multiple time a turn going from 7 gates to 10 in one phase.
Rites of Flourishing
This is the heart of what makes this deck works. Drawing more cards and playing more lands. Yes it does help everyone, and that is the point. Drawing into more fogs and playing more lands faster means we are better protected. The more creatures opponents play, the better our fogs get.
Amulet of Vigor
The best card to see in an opening hand. With this and Rites of Flourishing in play we can activate Maze's End multiple times on our turn. This is key as the gate Maze's End searches for no longer comes into play tapped and it can then be tapped immediately for mana to activate Maze's End again resulting in explosive plays.
Crackling Perimeter
A very effective alternate win condition that also does not require the combat phase.
Sylvan Scrying
Our universal land tutor. It can find us Maze's End or that missing guildgate.
Supreme Verdict
Can't be countered creature removal.
The Fogs
Fog
Constant Mists can be a better option, but often games can get close and 1 green mana is hard to beat. If you have a Crucible of Worlds it is a solid combo.
Batwing Brume
A fog that also kills token makers and Edric, Spymaster of Trest players. Our strongest fog, and it is my primary reason for having white and black mana generating gates when tutoring.
Riot Control
Life gain is huge. Rites of Flourishing can very easily cause the game to get out of hand. The more our opponents play, the more life we gain! This fog also prevents not just combat damage, but any damage. A good option against burn.
Blunt the Assault
Same idea as Riot Control, but only prevents combat damage.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Rites of Flourishing is a very political card that can help avoid aggro.
Also, in my experience Maze's End and Fog do not draw the entire table's attention. The idea that this deck can't work because it does not survive a relentless assault from all players in a multiplayer environment is hardly the point. In most cases, people who know this deck avoid attacking me because all of the value creatures with swords do not get triggers. Not to mention I'm the guy helping everyone draw more and play more. Sure when the guildgate count gets close to 10 people get worried, but that is not at all the scenario you have described.
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Even without Maze's End, Crackling Perimeter along with Seedborn Muse can end the game quickly. The life gain fogs also add some resilience. Causing all players to draw and play more lands creates large board states fast. Usually there are far worse things on the table to deal with. Usually those things aren't sent at the fog player. It also allows players who are behind into the game. It can even make friends. When everyone does come at you? That's when Batwing Brume shines.
ps. You shouldn't come off offended that I posted this list.
I'm not offended that you posted a list. I'm offended at how poorly you'd have to play a game of Magic in order to lose to it. That is, I'm not upset at you, I'm upset at how bad the players in your playgroup basically have to be. People are literally doing nothing while you cast a card that says "you win the game" or are, for some reason, allowing your 1-of Muse to survive and destroy them all. It makes actual 0 sense. Why? You have literally nothing for defense aside from Fogs. This has nothing to do with all-out attacking you. I would turn 1 creature sideways at you every combat phase. If everyone did that (like they should) you'd never win a game. Period. A single 2/2+ creature coming at you every turn from every player and you're drawing completely dead. I don't care how big/stalemated the board gets because everyone can send one creature at the person with literally no defense. No one is attacking anyways (in all likelihood) and so the extra blocker is completely meaningless. People could attack you for free for the entire game but they're choosing not to. That's not even remotely close to competent play. Only horrendously incompetent players could lose to this type of strategy. Poor threat assessment, poor play, poor decision making, etc. on a global scale is the only reason this deck is allowed to exist.
Comments such as 'I'm offended at how poorly you'd have to play a game of Magic in order to lose to it' are needlessly rude. Infraction for trolling - BlackVise
Guilds of Ravnica - Commander 2018 - Core 2019 - Battlebond - Dominaria - Rivals of Ixalan - Ixalan - Commander 2017 - Hour of Devastation - Amonket - Aether Revolt - Commander 2016 - Kaladesh - Conspiracy 2 - Eldritch Moon - Shadows Over Innistrad - Oath of the Gatewatch - Commander 2015 - Battle for Zendikar - Magic Origins - Dragons of Tarkir
Green - Blue - Red - White - Gold
Here's my feedback for you. You're terrible at giving advice. For someone who has as many posts as you I'm actually embarrassed for you. And while I've tried to make your previous posts constructive, I am no longer interested in anything you have to say. You have not played this deck. All of your assumptions mean nothing. I suggest you browse some of the other forums (commander for instance) and learn how people give constructive feedback.
Picking fights is not allowed, warning for flaming - BlackVise
I agree with this exactly and it was what I think CZ was trying to say just in a bit more of a neutral tone. Having 16 fog effects will not matter when someone can attack you every single combat phase. You said at least 5 players which means by the end of turn 4 there will have been exactly 16 combat phases, it only gets worse with 6 players. Granted not every single person will attack you every single time and also yes there may be decks that don't even have creatures to attack with. Also not a lot of decks are attacking on turn 1 which would also effect my example and of course you wouldn't have to fog every single time since you could easily sink some damage with your initial starting HP and with the life you gain on some of your fogs. All of this set aside I still think it's a weak deck because you really don't have a defense and what happens by turn 5 or 6 when you've used a few fogs and may not have any in your hand and people are busting out insane creatures and not just 2/2's or 3/3's... One bad *COMBAT PHASE* not even a turn can end your game. Then you will have sat there and literally done nothing all game but pop gates out. It just sounds a bit boring and underpowered.
It reminds me of whenever I try to brew up a way to make the Honden shrines playable. Hint: They aren't.
Rites of Flourishing along with Otherworld Atlas speed the game up for all players. Threats will be played at a much faster pace. I've had an opponent go from missing 3 land drops on turn 5 with only 2 lands in play to top decking 3 lands and placing them directly into play. Back in the game. People appreciate that. This works to the deck's advantage.
If anyone has any advice on how to improve the concept that would be great. If everyone's goal is to make a deck that is as cut throat as possible, by all means this is not it. Can this deck win? Certainly. Does it guarantee a win? Of course not. (not the type of deck I'd want to play in multiplayer if it did) Does it impact and interact with the board? Every time.
Is this the Casual & Related Formats or did I miss my place?
With the exception of,
(I don't, but...)
I completely agree with everything else, as well as CZ's comments.
First of all, Fog shouldn't even be in the list if Moment's Peace is an option. Heck, I'd much rather go with Constant Mists than Fog. They are so frail though...
A reuseable/permanent answer to defense is overwhelmingly 100x superior to Instant-type answers.
Now, if you tossed in Crucible of Worlds with Constant Mists, then I'd be with you...
But this list seems very, very fragile and I would have utterly no hope (& I mean NONE) of piloting this deck and winning anywhere near consistently with it. My buddies would simply conclude, "Umm, keep attacking, he'll run out of cards," which is overwhelmingly going to be the correct answer.
And the idea that you are a champion of the players by allowing them to draw more cards is highly dubious, especially in my meta. If you were helping only ME, then I'd be more on board with you, but everyone realizes that we are ALL drawing a bunch of cards, so it's hardly a drawback to slow EVERYONE else down. Apologies, but it's just poor logic.
The sample deck that Indalecio posted is much more viable in my mind.
.
Kokusho, The Evening Star, Exsanguinate and Glen Elendra Archmage have a restriction of 1 per deck.
I'd also highly recommend Scapeshift.
And it kinda sucked, as it required the deck to be fully committed to one plan, regardless of the game state.
I like my decks to be flexible and have more than one way to win where possible.
I decided to base it on green.
Primeval Titan, Wall of Blossoms, Gatecreeper Vine, Oracle of Mul Daya and a few utility like Eternal Witness, Acidic Slime etc.
With support from Green Sun's Zenith, Constant Mists, Sylvan Scrying, Explore, Rites of Flourishing, Life from the Loam and a couple Scapeshift.
Scape shift is an all-star here, as every forest gets nuked, Loam gets them back, and if you're running Witness, do it again!
The idea was to only field a single of each of the guildgates, a single Maze's End and use the Titan to get there, a Genesis as back-up.
I found Amulet of Vigor was not needed, as most of the time no one actually does anything relevant before turn 3 anyway, and that by using nothing but guildgates for lands made getting the colour's you needed made the deck unreliable.
Concentrating on the combo of Awakening & Crackling Perimeter is also very slow and requires a large proportion of the deck to support it, leaving little room for anything else, so I dropped that idea pretty quick too.
So the deck was okay, but it depended on Titan to make it work, and even then it was waaay slow and couldn't withstand committed attack, which is MASSIVE is MP.
I ended up breaking the deck to bits and trying instead to build a normal green stompy deck with large green creatures like Giant Adephage and co., and simply pop the Maze's End plus 10 single gate's as an alternative win.
But that reduced the efficiency of that deck too.
I have since decided that the Maze's End win-con is just too slow for my group with all their Exsanguinate's, Extort and the like to successfully compete, but it does have style point's if you can pull it off.
Good Luck
-1 Seedborn Muse
-3 Otherworld Atlas
-1 Selesnya Guildgate
+1 Azorius Guildgate
+4 Supreme Verdict
Note: I'm happy to say this deck has done quite well multiplayer and it wins often. I added Supreme Verdict to the line up to remove some of the issue creatures that kept popping up. Also, the comment about how poorly anyone would have to be to lose to this deck is worth a laugh to show the table after they lose to it.
This deck is not designed to take the entire table on and it should not be expected to. What other deck list comes under such scrutiny? When did the bar for Casual & Related Formats turn into the deck needs to survive against 4+ players vs it? It just isn't a realistic expectation, nor should it be.
Batwing Brume provides an alternate win con and it has killed people on the attack, especially in a token infested meta. When a player is on the attack and instead of me taking any damage (as they expected) they instead lose life - it is demoralizing and makes future attacks much more careful.
I think this sums up the greatest misconception here. The idea isn't to fog every single attack phase. You only fog when you need to. With 8 life gain fog effects there is more than enough time to take a few hits, especially early on. It is a ridiculous thought or expectation that the deck should survive every single combat phase with everyone focusing it. And if that is truly the case then it most likely won the last game anyways.
Also, lets not forget Crackling Perimeter. I'd say a fourth of the games I win are won with a resolved Crackling Perimeter.
I can tell you this much, this deck wouldn't win a single game at my kitchen table. Even if you HAD infinite fog, all someone has to do is, say, destroy 2x Golgari Guildgates and you can't win.
You seem to take it personally when people are trying to give you honest feedback. It is the goal of the community here to better people's deck building (and therefore overall chance to succeed), and so to reject advice out of hand because it's not what you want to hear isn't wise.
If the deck somehow wins lots of games around your table, fine. If the people you play with never wise up and learn how to destroy enchants and a couple lands, that's fine. If that is good enough for you, that's fine. It's your prerogative. Just don't expect people here to confirm with you that this is a great deck that looks like it should win a whack of games. Because it wouldn't, and shouldn't, in any competent play group.
My Powered 630 card Vintage Multiplayer Cube
cEDH: WUBR Blue Farm WUBR, UG Kinnan Flips UG, U Urza Scepter U
In his defense I stand by what I said but not the way I said it. I made it personal when I singled-out his players/their skill level/etc. so it makes sense to take a defensive stance on the subject. I could have used a little (see: a ****ton) more tact and avoided this type of nonsense. I do think that my generic argument is compelling/reasonable but I presented in such a poor manner that it lost any possible meaning. So yeah, it's my fault, not his.
EDIT: And to clarify my argument is that this type of deck loses when each player sends 1 creature at him each combat. In general people attack with one big/evasive creature and leave the rest on D and most take the path of least resistance. People who have nothing to protect themselves are almost always targeted from what I've seen but it's not by everything; it's by 1 moderately-sized critter per person. That is, this has nothing to do with alpha-strikes. It's about sending your spare critter to deal some damage against the person who can't defend himself. I should have just said that, but instead I decided to viciously insult his meta. Couldn't tell you why, but what's done is done :/.
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4 Moment's Peace
4 Dawn Charm
4 Riot Control
4 Supreme Verdict
4 Chronomantic Escape
//Support: 16
4 Amulet of Vigor
4 Gatecreeper Vine
4 Sylvan Scrying
4 Wall of Blossoms
//Lands: 24
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3 Simic Guildgate
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1 Boros Guildgate
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3 Reflecting Pool
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