Cockatrice Project Receives C&D Letter from Hasbro

  • #51
    Keeping the card database up-to-date isn't too much of a stretch, the card db is just stored in an XML file which you can edit yourself. There is some possibility that this can be maintained by the community.

    Sooner or later someone will design a client which allows you to either a) run a server yourself that you can have others connect to or b) make a direct connection with another player. Depending on how it pans out, some form of 3rd party VPN software might have to be used.

    Removal of the need for dedicated centralised servers is probably the best way to go to avoid Hasbro coming and raining on the parade.
  • #52
    Quote from CoMa_NZ
    Keeping the card database up-to-date isn't too much of a stretch, the card db is just stored in an XML file which you can edit yourself. There is some possibility that this can be maintained by the community.

    Sooner or later someone will design a client which allows you to either a) run a server yourself that you can have others connect to or b) make a direct connection with another player. Depending on how it pans out, some form of 3rd party VPN software might have to be used.


    This. The XML file that Oracle uses to update uses an incredibly simple format and grabs all the information from gatherer. The source code is already being forked by the community.
  • #53
    Man that sucks. I'm able to test out my decks and I find out first that I didn't install Arabian Knights, NOW I got this? Is there any OTHER free program I can use?
  • #54
    Quote from Sedaiv
    Man that sucks. I'm able to test out my decks and I find out first that I didn't install Arabian Knights, NOW I got this? Is there any OTHER free program I can use?


    Lackey is pretty good and I have been using it for over a year now

    www.lackeyccg.com
  • #55
    Quote from Safeguard
    If he has to pay fees, we should donate.


    I don't think he will have to pay many "fees" as you name it.

    First of this is a german lawsuit that has been threatened.

    Second this is a civil law suite, which will take some time and german damage
    claims are not as vastly inflated like Anglian tend to be.
    They would raise claims of very high damages to get to higher courts though.

    Third afaik he would probably win if he considers taking up the fight.
    If the infringements are about data usage or graphics used they won't be able
    to touch him as long as he can show that all graphics and database updates
    are throught Oracle/Gatherer. Also according to him the game supports
    various card games so .... *cough* they would have to get him with
    intelectual property claims which THEY would have to proof...
    which would mean they would have to open up their own code to the world
    (MTGOs or the one violated). Have fun with that.

    It would mostly depend which OLG is taking the case.
    Since their german headquarters is near Frankfurt it "should" be an OLG
    that's going to dismiss their claim. Cologne OLG and Hamburg OLG would be
    riskier but Frankfurt's judges at least take the time to read a suite before
    siding with any party as it appears to be.

    I would have to see the actual C&D to be sure but most likely he would win
    a german law suit. If that's the case... well let's just say that according to
    german law the loser of a civil suite has to pay the bills inflicted.

    To make this wall of text a bit shorter:
    IF they had anything on Brukie they would have slammed with an
    "Einstweiligen Verfügung" which they didn't.They are bullying and
    threatening some poor slob with a big hammer that's all.

    If he will consider fighting? I don't know and to be honest I don't want to
    be in his shoes either. After all, who really likes to fight battles that can
    stretch for years and cost your time if you simply can move on and do
    something constructive with your time and energy?
    There are enough ways around their C&D so ....

    Thanks for all your good works so far, Brukie and the fun time we
    where allowed to have with your software. I really hope you will get
    something in return for your infested time other then bad mannered
    business men not understanding fan-based marketing strategies.


    Regards,
    Matt


    "It's better to burn out then to fade away"
    - Kurgan the Kurgese

    Currently running

    BUReanimator
    USpringTide
    GUTwelve Post

    UMono Blue Tron (or UW if I feel friendly)
    WUBSuper Fiends
    UTalrand Tempo
    RUGHuntsmaster Tempo

    Assembling:

    Modern and Legacy
    BRUMidrange Infect
    Looking for a nice fit in the aggro department.
    PM.s and suggestions welcome!
  • #56
    This doesn't change the way I use the program in any way except perhaps updating the xml file when a new set is released.

    You can still build decks and play them against yourself.
  • #57
    Wizards just needs to dust off the ten client and update shandalar from 1997, that game is the best
  • #58
    Quote from caw_86
    Wizards just needs to dust off the ten client and update shandalar from 1997, that game is the best


    YES!!!!!!!!
  • #59
    And I was just using Cockatrice recently too.

    Sometimes, the companies themselves have to realize that legalizing what is illegal will work better than all the C&Ds. Pirating MP3s are lower now as free streaming is so much easier and you don't get headaches from the media companies.

    Oh well.

    Currently playing:
    T2
    BW Aggro-Midrange BW
  • #60
    If anything Cockatrice made me buy more cards not less it even got me to play MTGO so like some said earlier they skip on free advertisement if anything Hasbro should thank Brukie instead of threaten him. And tell him to keep up the good work,
    Keesie
    Level 1 Judge


    Find me on cockatrice:
    username:Keesie

    Currently Playing:

    Standard:
    UwR Burn baby Burn
    Gruul aggro won me the ptq Smile

    Modern:
    Hatebears
    Esper walkers

    Legacy:
    Maverick/death and taxes
  • #61
    I've read that Cockatrice has a LAN mode? Can I use two Cockatrice clients to play test on my home network?
  • #62
    Quote from 3kronor
    I've read that Cockatrice has a LAN mode? Can I use two Cockatrice clients to play test on my home network?


    Yes, although it might be easier to just 1v1 against yourself on the same monitor unless you have someone else to "test" against.
    -Jaralthazar-
  • #63
    Quote from Dechs Kaison
    Look, I don't know if it'll do any good, but I'm starting a petition to Hasbro to reverse this.

    https://www.change.org/petitions/hasbro-drop-charges-against-cockatrice


    went ahead and signed this, hasbro needs to stop this C&D Rampage. i was really looking forward to the MLP fighting game, and now my number 1 source for mtg testing is on the chopping block too?
  • #64
    Quote from LegoWaffle
    went ahead and signed this, hasbro needs to stop this C&D Rampage. i was really looking forward to the MLP fighting game, and now my number 1 source for mtg testing is on the chopping block too?


    It still works, browse around the forums and I am sure you will find one of the new servers around somewhere. I'm going to stop posting them in the open, but they are there.
    -Jaralthazar-
  • #65
    Quote from keesie
    If anything Cockatrice made me buy more cards not less it even got me to play MTGO so like some said earlier they skip on free advertisement if anything Hasbro should thank Brukie instead of threaten him. And tell him to keep up the good work,
    Keesie


    It was the same thing with Napster back in the day. They proved that Metallica was not losing money to Napster. If anything they were making more. What was causing the loss of profit to the music industry was the explosion of video games at that time. Parents were buying kids 2-3 $40-$50 games over 8 $15 CDs.

    Just like Metallica though Hasbro won't withdraw. Either cockatrice will have to go a P2P model in some fashion or the large company will just drag it out till they can no longer put up a fight.
  • #66
    If anything Cockatrice made me buy more cards not less it even got me to play MTGO so like some said earlier they skip on free advertisement if anything Hasbro should thank Brukie instead of threaten him. And tell him to keep up the good work,
    Keesie

    Quote from DMuehlhausen
    It was the same thing with Napster back in the day. They proved that Metallica was not losing money to Napster. If anything they were making more. What was causing the loss of profit to the music industry was the explosion of video games at that time. Parents were buying kids 2-3 $40-$50 games over 8 $15 CDs.

    Just like Metallica though Hasbro won't withdraw. Either cockatrice will have to go a P2P model in some fashion or the large company will just drag it out till they can no longer put up a fight.


    I wonder why Magic doesn't do it's own "free" mode with MTGO, and just let people create infinite decks but you just can't join money tournaments with them (basically the same as Cockatrice). Perhaps even go a step further and allow for "free" sealed/draft tournaments (with no prizes obviously) to let people that want to practice for the real thing do so. They wouldn't make money strictly from people that use said mode... but you would give people the same ability to playtest (and then buy the cards they they want to buy when they are done), and also because it's on MTGO and not a nuetral party, there's opportunity for ads and just the fact that they are on MTGO at all means they are more likely to buy stuff from Bots for their first real deck or w/e.

    Also... a factor that I don't think gets that much mention is...... oh my god think of how many new players would try this new game for free and learn how to play magic, and then eventually buy cards once they feel confident enough to play. And the most important thing about this is they are playing on a system that for the most part doesn't let them develop misconceptions about the rules. Stuff about targeting, timing, attacking, blocking, w/e. It's all there.

    It's basically like "free to play" modes in other MMORPGs that let you demo the game. And for the most part it's a proven system.
  • #67
    Quote from DMuehlhausen
    It was the same thing with Napster back in the day. They proved that Metallica was not losing money to Napster. If anything they were making more. What was causing the loss of profit to the music industry was the explosion of video games at that time. Parents were buying kids 2-3 $40-$50 games over 8 $15 CDs.
    Source? And why, in your opinion, would the music industry stop Napster if this meant they would lose money? Why would Hasbro stop Cockatrice if this means they will lose money?
  • #68
    Quote from Tripp89
    Yes, although it might be easier to just 1v1 against yourself on the same monitor unless you have someone else to "test" against.
    I do have someone to test with and we currently use Cockatrice in server mode, just because that's all I've figured out. So how does one run it in LAN mode?
  • #69
    Quote from DarkRitual
    I wonder why Magic doesn't do it's own "free" mode with MTGO, and just let people create infinite decks but you just can't join money tournaments with them (basically the same as Cockatrice). Perhaps even go a step further and allow for "free" sealed/draft tournaments (with no prizes obviously) to let people that want to practice for the real thing do so. They wouldn't make money strictly from people that use said mode... but you would give people the same ability to playtest (and then buy the cards they they want to buy when they are done), and also because it's on MTGO and not a nuetral party, there's opportunity for ads and just the fact that they are on MTGO at all means they are more likely to buy stuff from Bots for their first real deck or w/e.

    Also... a factor that I don't think gets that much mention is...... oh my god think of how many new players would try this new game for free and learn how to play magic, and then eventually buy cards once they feel confident enough to play. And the most important thing about this is they are playing on a system that for the most part doesn't let them develop misconceptions about the rules. Stuff about targeting, timing, attacking, blocking, w/e. It's all there.

    It's basically like "free to play" modes in other MMORPGs that let you demo the game. And for the most part it's a proven system.


    A very sound concept, but likely too sensible for Wizards to implement. I agree that Hasbro is the primary villain in this case, but when a substantial business concern like WotC with more than adequate resources and financing allows an unpaid freelance team to develop a superior product versus their official digital play platform, then they are inviting their own decline.
  • #70
    Umm... Magic Workstation?

    And to everyone getting bent out of shape that Hasbro is bringing action against Cockatrice... they kinda own MTG and all similarities, likenesses, etc. Do you think someone would get away with opening a "free" burger joint
    and having the McDonald's logo all over it?
    Last edited by solo24601: 3/4/2013 6:53:39 AM
    My favorite quote from an opponent who went first,
    "God! Are you done with my upkeep yet?"
    :p
  • #71
    Quote from solo24601
    Umm... Magic Workstation?

    And to everyone getting bent out of shape that Hasbro is bringing action against Cockatrice... they kinda own MTG and all similarities, likenesses, etc. Do you think someone would get away with opening a "free" burger joint
    and having the McDonald's logo all over it?


    If i'm understanding the case correctly; the illegal thing Cockatrice has done is use the images for the cards from Gatherer.

    Hasbro is also asking for money because of "damages" that they have suffered.

    It's not so open and shut as you put it.
  • #72
    Hasbro has legal right and precedent to request recompense for any action taken by an outside party to mimic, reproduce, reconstruct, or utilize their patented brand. While I may or may not agree with their methods, they are well above and beyond reproach on this one.
    So speaking as an individual who has had a bit of experience/education in this avenue, it is, for better or worse, that "open and shut" as I put it.

    Sucks, though. Wink
    My favorite quote from an opponent who went first,
    "God! Are you done with my upkeep yet?"
    :p
  • #73
    Quote from solo24601
    Hasbro has legal right and precedent to request recompense for any action taken by an outside party to mimic, reproduce, reconstruct, or utilize their patented brand. While I may or may not agree with their methods, they are well above and beyond reproach on this one.
    So speaking as an individual who has had a bit of experience/education in this avenue, it is, for better or worse, that "open and shut" as I put it.

    Sucks, though. Wink


    I have legal education. I have not studied patents or copyrights. I have studied US trademark law. US trademark law covers brands, not US patent law. One does not patent a brand. Maybe it's different somewhere else, but your location marker says United States. I have no idea where you're getting educated if you're talking about patenting brands. It's interesting to try to apply US trademark and copyright law to the Cockatrice-Hasbro dispute, but your language here makes any analysis pretty bereft of credibility.
  • #74
    Well, back to the craphole of MWS. Cockatrice, we barely knew ye.

    Ah well, I use MWS for VS System anyway...
  • #75
    Trademarked. Not patented. My bad.
    My favorite quote from an opponent who went first,
    "God! Are you done with my upkeep yet?"
    :p
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