Take your monoblack deck, then set aside 14 swamps. Add 4 Creeping Tar Pits, 4 Darkslick Shores, 4 Drowned Catacombs, and 2 Jwar isle Refuge and add 4 Jace, the Mindsculptors. Your monoblack deck is instantly better. Better yet, drop those refuges, throw in some islands and some mana leaks, and lo and behold, you're now playing a real deck. Congratulations. Welcome to the world of competitive M:TG.
It depends on the venue. My friends have been to Canada for several events and in nearly every case there was a bar within the same building the event took place in. There was plenty of underaged drinking too. But at least they got to play in events, hangover and all.
Hmm, okay. That definitely seems overly cautious then. But it sounds like they're a bit more skeptical in Austria and Germany when it comes to games than in most other countries.
In Germany you can drunk when you are 14 or 15.
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I petition for a new pack structure: 1 Mythic Rare 3 Rares 5 Uncommons 7 Commons 1 Token/B. Land
But I also propose even distribution of number of cards in each rarity: Large set: 60 c, 60 u, 60 r, 60 m.
Probabilities of particular cards: Common 7/60, Uncommon 1/12, Rare 1/20, Mythic 1/60.
I did read the thread, my point stands it doesn't matter what the reason is for the 18 and over thing.
I sincerely doubt WotC wants to hold major events in countries where a good portion of their audience is prohibited from playing. I mean if I showed up for this event and was 17 years old I would be extremely disappointed. I would estimate a good 40-50% of a GP crowd are in their teens, and at least half of those if not more are under 18.
Reasons are irrelevant when the fact of the matter is the bottom line is at the present time you have to be 18 to play in a GP in Vienna.
I did read the thread, my point stands it doesn't matter what the reason is for the 18 and over thing.
I sincerely doubt WotC wants to hold major events in countries where a good portion of their audience is prohibited from playing. I mean if I showed up for this event and was 17 years old I would be extremely disappointed. I would estimate a good 40-50% of a GP crowd are in their teens, and at least half of those if not more are under 18.
Reasons are irrelevant when the fact of the matter is the bottom line is at the present time you have to be 18 to play in a GP in Vienna.
I don't disagree with your logic about Wizards in general... but I think you are off on your percentages.
From what I understand, you are saying 40%-50% are teens (13-19) and over half of those people (meaning around 25% of everyone) are under 18. I've been to 2 GPs in Texas and I don't get that vibe. With the entry fee being 40-60 dollars, that cuts out a huge chunk of the average player. Add in to the fact that a significant portion of GP goers travel to GPs (I'd estimate about a third... as I would commonly ask where someone was from when I faced them). As I illustrated earlier, the cost of traveling is going to keep a lot of people under 18 from being able to afford going to an out of town tournament.
I'm 26 and have a day job, so it's nothing for me to make the weekend trip to a GP under 8 hours driving distance away. I can afford the traveling cost and I have the time, and I'm a grown man that doesn't have to answer to anyone. People 18 or under need the money, which usually means parents that can shell out 200+ dollars to you for a weekend or a job. If you have a job, you have to get time off (most people under 18 work night jobs because of school). And on top of that you have to convince your parents to let you go.
From the two GPs I went to... I would estimate under 10% were under 18. Maybe it's just Texas.
I don't disagree with your logic about Wizards in general... but I think you are off on your percentages.
From what I understand, you are saying 40%-50% are teens (13-19) and over half of those people (meaning around 25% of everyone) are under 18. I've been to 2 GPs in Texas and I don't get that vibe. With the entry fee being 40-60 dollars, that cuts out a huge chunk of the average player. Add in to the fact that a significant portion of GP goers travel to GPs (I'd estimate about a third... as I would commonly ask where someone was from when I faced them). As I illustrated earlier, the cost of traveling is going to keep a lot of people under 18 from being able to afford going to an out of town tournament.
I'm 26 and have a day job, so it's nothing for me to make the weekend trip to a GP under 8 hours driving distance away. I can afford the traveling cost and I have the time, and I'm a grown man that doesn't have to answer to anyone. People 18 or under need the money, which usually means parents that can shell out 200+ dollars to you for a weekend or a job. If you have a job, you have to get time off (most people under 18 work night jobs because of school). And on top of that you have to convince your parents to let you go.
From the two GPs I went to... I would estimate under 10% were under 18. Maybe it's just Texas.
Local participation is a thing though, I think it mostly depends on the area and the player types there. I mean if you put one in say a prime area of America where its within 2-3 hours drive or less of multiple large cities you will see a huge turnout. Obviously the % of those under 18 will vary though, my % may have been a bit high but I do see plenty of these types of players at events.
I guess you could argue though that if a GP was within 2-3 hours drive of a lot of huge cities it would also attract the more adult GP attendee also.
Even if we take your % of under 18 players at a GP it still is a huge portion to turn away at the door.
I have played in quit a few GP's from Chicago and Indy on down to New Orleans and Dallas. Most if not at least 90% of the players are over 18 in those events. I know out of our local 19-20 players whose houses I go to or come over to play we are all over 18 heck I am about mid range on age at 35 for our group a few of the guys are older than me and one is almost ready to retire next year (65 years old)
Local participation is a thing though, I think it mostly depends on the area and the player types there. I mean if you put one in say a prime area of America where its within 2-3 hours drive or less of multiple large cities you will see a huge turnout. Obviously the % of those under 18 will vary though, my % may have been a bit high but I do see plenty of these types of players at events.
I guess you could argue though that if a GP was within 2-3 hours drive of a lot of huge cities it would also attract the more adult GP attendee also.
My only evidence to support my theory is going to two GPs in Texas (Houston this past summer and San Antonio last year). Surveying the room and doing my own quick informal polling. I'm not the best judge of age, but if someone is 25 it's hard to confuse them for someone under 18.
So I haven't done official research. But I'm kind of hoping if I'm blatantly wrong someone will correct me and tell me why I'm wrong.
Even if we take your % of under 18 players at a GP it still is a huge portion to turn away at the door.
I did read the thread, my point stands it doesn't matter what the reason is for the 18 and over thing.
[...]
Reasons are irrelevant when the fact of the matter is the bottom line is at the present time you have to be 18 to play in a GP in Vienna.
Then you have NOT read the thread (or at least not all of it. No offense here).
You HAD to be 18 or older to play the last GP here. This is correct.
BUT:
You have NOT to be 18 to play a GP in general in Vienna. All underage people can play, as long as the confirmations from local authorities are requested more than one or two days before the tournament.
As for the last GP this was simply not the case.
So the statement "at the present time you have to be 18 to play in a GP in Vienna" is simply wrong.
If you want more details search for older posts from "Valtl" or me here in this thread.
So every time they hold any event they need to request a special permit for age restrictions? You figure just doing this once would be enough, I mean this is like some guy being forced to get a business license every time he opens his shop.
If I run a pre-release in Vienna do I have to go get a permit for that, unless I don't mind having 18 and older participants?
If you are a local shop owner with your own physical store and you want to do a prerelease you do not need to get confirmations for that. To be fair, we have around 110 people on prereleases - so nearly nothing compared to a GP.
But if you rent a place on an exhibition site with much more than 1000 people attending from all around the world you have to inform at least the local authorities and the the landlord of the exhibition ground of what you are planning to do.
What happened was the following (dates may slightly vary):
Nov/28/late afternoon
"Hi, we are going to start our event tomorrow"
landlord: "You still have not told us what you are going to do here. Please do it now"
"We are going to play a GP in Magic: The Gathering, here are some informations"
landlord: "This is a card game with money prices, is it gambling?"
"No, we already got a permission for that"
landlord: "Also, some of those cards look pretty violent. And woooooh, there are even hot chicks with nearly nothing on their body on it! Is this legal for minors?"
"Well, the local age rating for the game is 12, so well, yeah"
landlord: "Do you have a confirmation for that? And for the gamling part?"
"Sure, just ask this government agency: XXXX"
landlord: "They say they could not answer my request right now until they did some research. I am sorry, but i can not allow the event so start if minors are attending because i do not know if it is legal"
If they had just contacted all the important persons a week sooner, everything would have been fine.
Actually Germany was a lot more concrete in their case. In Germany's case, it was running afoul of the new gambling regulation laws that were passed literally the MONTH before the GP started, and they ruled that Magic was a game of chance, thus no cash payouts allowed. Sadly at that point the next German GP was already scheduled and locked in, so they had no real chance to move it
im from germany and what i dont get is: why the hell are there sportbetting shops all over the place. poker events are all over the place but you are not allowed to win money with magic? i seriously dont get it.
seems like the organizers of these magic events dont know how to use the loopholes.
Sportbetting shops and Card Casinos seem to have a certain permission - i think such a permission doesn't get granted to a single event or it is too expensive or laborious to get as it seems reasonable for a single event.
Also neither sports betting shops nor casinos allow entry to minors in Germany.
Oh come on, please read the ****ing thread!
There were NO restrictions from the authorities! There were restrictions from the owner of the place where the tournament holds place because he was not informed early enough!
Also, Wizard has already stated that this incident has no impact on future events, especially not on the next GP this year!
I am sorry, i did not want to be that rude.
As you can see, i live in vienna at the moment and the GP was a really nice event and ofc i do want further events in this city and i want many players to come and play here. But the totally wrong statements that some people make here, even if the circumstances have been clarified three times already, are not helping to show people what a great place to play this city is. Even if you can not excuse my outburst, perhaps you can at least understand it a bit.
Actually the whole incident was a chain of small mistakes by different parties.
Yeah, Wizards screwed up because they did not make sure Gordian Knot Games had all the needed permissions.
Yeah, Gordian Knot Games screwed up, because apperently they thought they would not need another permission from the owner of the place.
Yeah, PERHAPS(!) even the owner is to blame partially, because he waited really long to ask Gordian Knot Games what they are about to do on the tournament side (but actually, we don't know that).
I think everyone involved learned a lot - so this will surely not happen ever again.
Yet, I can't help but notice that on the Wizard's events website there is still no information released on the GP taking place this March in Vienna. Even for later GPs this information including the site has been released already.
I would like to book my plane ticket but this make me hesitant at the moment.
tl;dr -- if you're under 18, need signed parental or guardian consent form to register. If under 14, need consent form and must be accompanied by parent/guardian.
Imagine having travelled, being under 18, and now being able to not play in the GP now. I'd probably just find some other event somewhere to play but my immediate response would be anger.
Haha, sure. Let's feel terrible for spoiled kids and their 1% income lineage.
Imagine having travelled, being under 18, and now being able to not play in the GP now. I'd probably just find some other event somewhere to play but my immediate response would be anger.
Haha, sure. Let's feel terrible for spoiled kids and their 1% income lineage.
Assume much?
Sure, some kids would fit into that character, but it is possible that they worked for it too. By the time I was 18 I had more than enough saved up from working long summers to make such a trip - though I'd have to be careful when I booked my flights, hotels, etc relative to departure.
Well, I guess that makes three out of three German speaking countries that won't have GPs anymore in the future (Germany because authorities don't allow cash prices, Austria because of this, and Switzerland because its friggin expensive ;))
well, there could always be GP Luxembourg and/or Liechtenstein... i guess. I suppose both those countries dont mind helping out people that want to skirt around some various money regulations..
Though now that I'm thinking about European microstate monarchies, Monaco would be a pretty kick-ass location to hold a Pro Tour at some point.
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booze, complicated rules, and salty attitudes.
throw in blackjack and hookers and you've got yourself Mos Eisley. for wizards.
It depends on the venue. My friends have been to Canada for several events and in nearly every case there was a bar within the same building the event took place in. There was plenty of underaged drinking too.
In Germany you can drunk when you are 14 or 15.
But I also propose even distribution of number of cards in each rarity: Large set: 60 c, 60 u, 60 r, 60 m.
Probabilities of particular cards: Common 7/60, Uncommon 1/12, Rare 1/20, Mythic 1/60.
Feel free to bid on my cards here!
16. At least, it was 16 when I was there in 1997. When I was 15.
Did you even read thread?
Legacy/Standard/Modern Gameplay
Cube/Commander/Draft
Spiel Raum Wien
I did read the thread, my point stands it doesn't matter what the reason is for the 18 and over thing.
I sincerely doubt WotC wants to hold major events in countries where a good portion of their audience is prohibited from playing. I mean if I showed up for this event and was 17 years old I would be extremely disappointed. I would estimate a good 40-50% of a GP crowd are in their teens, and at least half of those if not more are under 18.
Reasons are irrelevant when the fact of the matter is the bottom line is at the present time you have to be 18 to play in a GP in Vienna.
Feel free to bid on my cards here!
I don't disagree with your logic about Wizards in general... but I think you are off on your percentages.
From what I understand, you are saying 40%-50% are teens (13-19) and over half of those people (meaning around 25% of everyone) are under 18. I've been to 2 GPs in Texas and I don't get that vibe. With the entry fee being 40-60 dollars, that cuts out a huge chunk of the average player. Add in to the fact that a significant portion of GP goers travel to GPs (I'd estimate about a third... as I would commonly ask where someone was from when I faced them). As I illustrated earlier, the cost of traveling is going to keep a lot of people under 18 from being able to afford going to an out of town tournament.
I'm 26 and have a day job, so it's nothing for me to make the weekend trip to a GP under 8 hours driving distance away. I can afford the traveling cost and I have the time, and I'm a grown man that doesn't have to answer to anyone. People 18 or under need the money, which usually means parents that can shell out 200+ dollars to you for a weekend or a job. If you have a job, you have to get time off (most people under 18 work night jobs because of school). And on top of that you have to convince your parents to let you go.
From the two GPs I went to... I would estimate under 10% were under 18. Maybe it's just Texas.
Local participation is a thing though, I think it mostly depends on the area and the player types there. I mean if you put one in say a prime area of America where its within 2-3 hours drive or less of multiple large cities you will see a huge turnout. Obviously the % of those under 18 will vary though, my % may have been a bit high but I do see plenty of these types of players at events.
I guess you could argue though that if a GP was within 2-3 hours drive of a lot of huge cities it would also attract the more adult GP attendee also.
Even if we take your % of under 18 players at a GP it still is a huge portion to turn away at the door.
Feel free to bid on my cards here!
My only evidence to support my theory is going to two GPs in Texas (Houston this past summer and San Antonio last year). Surveying the room and doing my own quick informal polling. I'm not the best judge of age, but if someone is 25 it's hard to confuse them for someone under 18.
So I haven't done official research. But I'm kind of hoping if I'm blatantly wrong someone will correct me and tell me why I'm wrong.
True. Even if it's 5%, that's 50+ people.
Then you have NOT read the thread (or at least not all of it. No offense here).
You HAD to be 18 or older to play the last GP here. This is correct.
BUT:
You have NOT to be 18 to play a GP in general in Vienna. All underage people can play, as long as the confirmations from local authorities are requested more than one or two days before the tournament.
As for the last GP this was simply not the case.
So the statement "at the present time you have to be 18 to play in a GP in Vienna" is simply wrong.
If you want more details search for older posts from "Valtl" or me here in this thread.
Legacy/Standard/Modern Gameplay
Cube/Commander/Draft
Spiel Raum Wien
If I run a pre-release in Vienna do I have to go get a permit for that, unless I don't mind having 18 and older participants?
Feel free to bid on my cards here!
If you are a local shop owner with your own physical store and you want to do a prerelease you do not need to get confirmations for that. To be fair, we have around 110 people on prereleases - so nearly nothing compared to a GP.
But if you rent a place on an exhibition site with much more than 1000 people attending from all around the world you have to inform at least the local authorities and the the landlord of the exhibition ground of what you are planning to do.
What happened was the following (dates may slightly vary):
Nov/28/late afternoon
"Hi, we are going to start our event tomorrow"
landlord: "You still have not told us what you are going to do here. Please do it now"
"We are going to play a GP in Magic: The Gathering, here are some informations"
landlord: "This is a card game with money prices, is it gambling?"
"No, we already got a permission for that"
landlord: "Also, some of those cards look pretty violent. And woooooh, there are even hot chicks with nearly nothing on their body on it! Is this legal for minors?"
"Well, the local age rating for the game is 12, so well, yeah"
landlord: "Do you have a confirmation for that? And for the gamling part?"
"Sure, just ask this government agency: XXXX"
landlord: "They say they could not answer my request right now until they did some research. I am sorry, but i can not allow the event so start if minors are attending because i do not know if it is legal"
If they had just contacted all the important persons a week sooner, everything would have been fine.
Legacy/Standard/Modern Gameplay
Cube/Commander/Draft
Spiel Raum Wien
im from germany and what i dont get is: why the hell are there sportbetting shops all over the place. poker events are all over the place but you are not allowed to win money with magic? i seriously dont get it.
seems like the organizers of these magic events dont know how to use the loopholes.
Also neither sports betting shops nor casinos allow entry to minors in Germany.
There were NO restrictions from the authorities! There were restrictions from the owner of the place where the tournament holds place because he was not informed early enough!
Also, Wizard has already stated that this incident has no impact on future events, especially not on the next GP this year!
Legacy/Standard/Modern Gameplay
Cube/Commander/Draft
Spiel Raum Wien
As you can see, i live in vienna at the moment and the GP was a really nice event and ofc i do want further events in this city and i want many players to come and play here. But the totally wrong statements that some people make here, even if the circumstances have been clarified three times already, are not helping to show people what a great place to play this city is. Even if you can not excuse my outburst, perhaps you can at least understand it a bit.
Actually the whole incident was a chain of small mistakes by different parties.
Yeah, Wizards screwed up because they did not make sure Gordian Knot Games had all the needed permissions.
Yeah, Gordian Knot Games screwed up, because apperently they thought they would not need another permission from the owner of the place.
Yeah, PERHAPS(!) even the owner is to blame partially, because he waited really long to ask Gordian Knot Games what they are about to do on the tournament side (but actually, we don't know that).
I think everyone involved learned a lot - so this will surely not happen ever again.
Legacy/Standard/Modern Gameplay
Cube/Commander/Draft
Spiel Raum Wien
I would like to book my plane ticket but this make me hesitant at the moment.
tl;dr -- if you're under 18, need signed parental or guardian consent form to register. If under 14, need consent form and must be accompanied by parent/guardian.
Organizer info and consent form is here.
----
Lightning Bolts don't kill creatures. State-based actions kill creatures.
Haha, sure. Let's feel terrible for spoiled kids and their 1% income lineage.
Assume much?
Sure, some kids would fit into that character, but it is possible that they worked for it too. By the time I was 18 I had more than enough saved up from working long summers to make such a trip - though I'd have to be careful when I booked my flights, hotels, etc relative to departure.
Please don't Necro old threads - Jay13x
well, there could always be GP Luxembourg and/or Liechtenstein... i guess. I suppose both those countries dont mind helping out people that want to skirt around some various money regulations..
Though now that I'm thinking about European microstate monarchies, Monaco would be a pretty kick-ass location to hold a Pro Tour at some point.